Guild Wars 2

Evon Skyfyre.9673:

Case closed.. This kangaroo court is adjourned.

Psh, like the thread is over just because you say it is.

[/thread]

NOW it’s over. =P

Kidding aside, the complaints about the too-RNG nature of rewards has been nigh-constant on the forums. (So have Traits since April 15th, but I digress.)

It’s been a very disappointing way of holding players back from things they want, even when they do the right things to get them. (Black Lion chests….)

And there have been threads that asked for more task-oriented or challenging methods, rather than just cleaving through (sometimes literally) a thousand chests to waste time on. I’d like to see it addressed, especially in favor of a token-oriented method.

In thinking about it, having a “piece” guaranteed with a very small chance of getting the whole thing, at least gives us an opportunity where there isn’t one. Add an expensive component to it as a gold sink. Make skill points a thing to use. Buy parts with karma. That makes things good for the economy by filtering out money.

Since I did precursors as an example earlier, how about the fossilized bug thing:

250 “amber drops” + 250 silky sand and turn those in to the vendor for a bug. Bug gets traded at the same vendor for the specific piece you’re looking for (if I recall correctly; I took a glance after I think I got one), then go from there.
Or start with 500 of each and decrease the amount according to Zephyrite favor.

Or if you wanted to be more rigorous about it, Mystic Forge:
Again, 250 “amber fragments” + 250 silky sand (or geodes, just thought of that) + the skillpoint wine bottle + 50 Thermo components from the craft vendors = 1 prized bugthing for making amberite weapons.
…or 250 geodes + 250 sand (500, the numbers don’t overly matter) + etc.

There’s options that are easy to execute.

The OP’s rant basically boils down to “I want X and it’s behind an RNG mechanism and that’s unfair, to me.”

Well sorry. When a game has thousands of items in it’s drop tables, that’s the fairest way to distribute them in the world. It allows developers to truly make an item, quantity wise, rare. This means there will be other items as common as dirt.

As for some items becoming soul or account bound on acquisition for doing specific content, that’s been asked for by players who don’t want a “Mr Moneybags” to simply buy an “Olympic Medal” but is forced to actually do the content. Which is why we end up getting LS currencies and bound rewards.

Lastly ANet will never do anything like allowing you to sell bound items for gems. We can argue the finer points later but selling gems for cash is ANet’s income model. Selling gems for gold simply provides the gold ANet can sell later for cash bought gems. For your suggestion to work, ANet would have to establish a store front of customer provided items that can be bought by gems. The the gold/gem exchange has a floating rate that change over time and usually not to the player’s advantage. Duplicating that for each LS bound item drop would be a pain to do, especially if you attempt to float the price based on supply and demand.

I think a better alternative is to be able to sell them for event currency, in this case geodes, and then be able to buy, for a butt ton of that currency, the item you want. I keeps the “participation” aspect of those rewards intact yet allow the player to select their desired reward.

Axelwarrior.9084:

Brother Grimm.5176:

Why not? I would seriously like to hear your reasoning behind the logic that led you to this belief. (BTW, you can actually obtain a Legendary within minutes of completing the the tutorial if you have the gold to purchase one, so RNG is NOT the only factor).

If there’s no RNG, then how would loot be decided? And what would happen to Magic Find?
To purchase a Legendary, someone had to craft it with the precursor, which he looted or bought from someone who looted it, therefore RNG is involved in the making of EVERY Legendary.

I never once said that there should be NO rng. Not once.

I question the nature and details of RNG.

As I have said in this thread: RNG is good. Pure, unmitigated RNG as the only source of items is bad.

Chariot.5240:

I’m not sure why this is an issue, luck is a major part of MMO’s any drop from a boss is luck. Sure there is some statistics relevant to when you should expect to see any given drop based of the simple math of chests open vs. items acquired. What you are seeking seems to be a low % drop rate. And on top of that you seem quite unlucky. Improve your chances by opening more. You may find the nest 3 you open each contain one, increasing your % of drop back to the norm. Or, possibly you are forever doomed. However statistically, that is impossible =D

I am not playing other RPGs. I play guild Wars 2.

Actually, statistically, a purely random chance can always have only one result an infinite number of times. Just because the coin has come up heads ten times does not increase the possibility that the next flip will be tails.

The drop percentage is a constant. And I have had annoyingly “Good” bad luck, in that I’ve gotten a few rare drops from Dry Top chests that are nothing I want.

Another SOLUTION is to let me pick my rare drop, or exchange an unwanted drop for a desired one.

First sure sign a game is not as popular as it once was, the forums are very busy. If the game was popular, we’d be playing it.

(Waits for people to chime in they are posting from school, work, Dennys, etc.. so they can’t be playing or they would be.) :P

Evon Skyfyre.9673:

First sure sign a game is not as popular as it once was, the forums are very busy. If the game was popular, we’d be playing it.

(Waits for people to chime in they are posting from school, work, Dennys, etc.. so they can’t be playing or they would be.) :P

Posting from work otherwise I’d be playing :P

(seriously…this is what I do at work….)

Dusty Moon.4382:

It would be nice if instead of posting what is bad, you could post suggestions as to how to improve it. Since, you are a supposed AAA developer, how can you change it?

The negativity of your post guarantees that most of the replies will be negative also. Nice way to start a pile on thread.

Learn to read. He did post suggestions.

Just found this thread, and wanted to point some things out.

First you say:

Sytherek.7689:

RNG is bad for MMOs.

Then you go on to say:

Sytherek.7689:

Here, just so it’s clear: RNG is good.

What this comes down to is, RNG is bad, when you don’t get what you want. But RNG is good, because you got what you wanted, thus won the “gamble”.

For you to claim that you were a “a developer on AAA titles and specifically, MMOs”, then you must have some basic understanding on why reward structures include RNG. Or perhaps your “AAA MMO” didn’t have a global economy to deal with? Everything is interconnected when there’s an economy involved. Currency values, item values, etc.

Yup, I understand your pain. I remember during the dragon bash, I opened close to 2,200 dragon coffers to get a ticket while a guildie got one ticket by his 10th coffer, and 2nd ticket by 150th coffer. He ended up with 4 tickets just by opening 2 stacks of dragon coffers. RNG needs to be weighted so that each time you fail to get something, your chances increased the next try and reset if you get an item. It doesn’t even have to be double each time. Just a small incremental increase would satisfy me.

Sytherek.7689:

Chariot.5240:

I’m not sure why this is an issue, luck is a major part of MMO’s any drop from a boss is luck. Sure there is some statistics relevant to when you should expect to see any given drop based of the simple math of chests open vs. items acquired. What you are seeking seems to be a low % drop rate. And on top of that you seem quite unlucky. Improve your chances by opening more. You may find the nest 3 you open each contain one, increasing your % of drop back to the norm. Or, possibly you are forever doomed. However statistically, that is impossible =D

I am not playing other RPGs. I play guild Wars 2.

Actually, statistically, a purely random chance can always have only one result an infinite number of times. Just because the coin has come up heads ten times does not increase the possibility that the next flip will be tails.

The drop percentage is a constant. And I have had annoyingly “Good” bad luck, in that I’ve gotten a few rare drops from Dry Top chests that are nothing I want.

Another SOLUTION is to let me pick my rare drop, or exchange an unwanted drop for a desired one.

I suppose that can make sense, like the lottery. Playing the same number (same chance) each week, does not increase your odds every week thereafter, because the odds reset each week. (month or w/e the lottery is, I don’t play)

So, it still seems a little whiny, but… I suppose if everything else in the game has some kind of consistency, maybe this should as well, or at least another avenue to approach the item. Eh, at the end of the day, it likely wouldn’t matter if they made another way to obtain the item. Difficult as it may be, it could be another avenue with 100% return, that may or may not take longer vs. trying your luck at infinity.

Smooth Penguin.5294:

Just found this thread, and wanted to point some things out.

First you say:

Sytherek.7689:

RNG is bad for MMOs.

Then you go on to say:

Sytherek.7689:

Here, just so it’s clear: RNG is good.

What this comes down to is, RNG is bad, when you don’t get what you want. But RNG is good, because you got what you wanted, thus won the “gamble”.

For you to claim that you were a “a developer on AAA titles and specifically, MMOs”, then you must have some basic understanding on why reward structures include RNG. Or perhaps your “AAA MMO” didn’t have a global economy to deal with? Everything is interconnected when there’s an economy involved. Currency values, item values, etc.

I was unclear.

RNG as the only way of attaining items is bad.

RNG in general is good.

lnguy.5127:

Yup, I understand your pain. I remember during the dragon bash, I opened close to 2,200 dragon coffers to get a ticket while a guildie got one ticket by his 10th coffer, and 2nd ticket by 150th coffer. He ended up with 4 tickets just by opening 2 stacks of dragon coffers. RNG needs to be weighted so that each time you fail to get something, your chances increased the next try and reset if you get an item. It doesn’t even have to be double each time. Just a small incremental increase would satisfy me.

Then it’s not RANDOM CHANCE.

If it’s 10% chance that an item is in a chest, it doesn’t mean you are guaranteed to get one out of every 10. There is still over a 1% chance of getting none after opening 43 of them. There’s never been a guarantee that everyone will “win” but overall, 10% of all chests will have that item. You may get it on your first chest, you may get it on your 1,000th chest but everyone has a 10% chance per chest.

In DDO after running something 20 times they would give you a reward list filled with most of the rewards. So after grinding for a couple of months to get something you would have a greater chance at getting it. Sometimes what you wanted would still not end up being in the list but it still gave you a large list of items and normally at least 1 thing was usable. The idea that you could try for something your entire time playing and never get it is lamest thing I have ever heard. How anyone can defend that is beyond me. There is no reason ever for something to not be achievable in game when enough effort has been given. I and most others are not asking for free stuff. It is a simple thing to make it so something is random but gives you better chances as you keep trying. Or you can just make it so 1-3 tokens drop from every mob and it takes 1000 tokens. That way some will get lucky get there’s first but other people will still have a chance at getting it eventually.

Behellagh.1468:

Then it’s not RANDOM CHANCE.

If it’s 10% chance that an item is in a chest, it doesn’t mean you are guaranteed to get one out of every 10. There is still over a 1% chance of getting none after opening 43 of them. There’s never been a guarantee that everyone will “win” but overall, 10% of all chests will have that item. You may get it on your first chest, you may get it on your 1,000th chest but everyone has a 10% chance per chest.

And that’s just not very good. :\
And we all know a 10% chance is WAY too generous for GW2 loot.
So, odds are, it’s 1%, or .1% (400 chests = 1% or ~4500 chests =1% respectively)

To repeat that, expect 4500 chests. That’s abysmal.

I do have to wonder how much difficulty to code (probably not much) or game load (maybe?) it would take to add increasing gains to loot boxes and the like. So, take 0.1% and increment it by 0.1 for every “miss.” By the 90th box, you’ve got a thing. Then the gains reset, and it starts all over at 0.1%
Number, of course, adjustable for how expected loot is supposed to happen.

Rauderi.8706:

Number, of course, adjustable for how expected loot is supposed to happen.

Well, that’s the big question mark, isn’kitten How often IS it supposed to happen?

Considering Arena.net has been receiving this complaint (especially regarding precursors from the Mystic Forge) pretty much since the beginning, and has done little to change it (and in fact has openly declared many times that the rate from precursors has not changed), tells me the supply is pretty much right where they want it.

What that means to you will likely vary.

I, personally, am a HUGE fan of RNG. Just saying!

RNG is a way to keep people playing, the longer one needs to get what he wants, the longer he plays. That’s the thinking process behind RNG and it holds true to a certain extend. But as the OP has said, it’s not fun. Therefore I suggest to remove the RNG for high-value objects, like black lion chests, and replace them with a currency. The downside to this is if too many correncies get implemented, the player loses track of all those currencies. But the upside is that if a player needs a certain amount of tries to get one item on average with RNG, the player now only needs a specific amount of tries to get the item.

Rauderi.8706:

Behellagh.1468:

Then it’s not RANDOM CHANCE.

If it’s 10% chance that an item is in a chest, it doesn’t mean you are guaranteed to get one out of every 10. There is still over a 1% chance of getting none after opening 43 of them. There’s never been a guarantee that everyone will “win” but overall, 10% of all chests will have that item. You may get it on your first chest, you may get it on your 1,000th chest but everyone has a 10% chance per chest.

And that’s just not very good. :\
And we all know a 10% chance is WAY too generous for GW2 loot.
So, odds are, it’s 1%, or .1% (400 chests = 1% or ~4500 chests =1% respectively)

To repeat that, expect 4500 chests. That’s abysmal.

I do have to wonder how much difficulty to code (probably not much) or game load (maybe?) it would take to add increasing gains to loot boxes and the like. So, take 0.1% and increment it by 0.1 for every “miss.” By the 90th box, you’ve got a thing. Then the gains reset, and it starts all over at 0.1%
Number, of course, adjustable for how expected loot is supposed to happen.

You would have to keep track of how many boxes of which type each player has openend and which item-subclasses they received out of them. It further means to implement dynamic loottables. I don’t think such a system will be implemented by Anet (and I don’t think it’s a good, transparent solution). I would prefer a system that has true RNG but also allows you to trade RNG for playtime.

Let’s take the current problem with exotic insect drops in Dry Top as an example. First we have to clarify something: players can only receive the item by opening special chests with a special lockpick item. Lockpicks can be obtained by playing in Dry Top and farming Geodes by doing events or killing enemies. So it’s obvious that the Devs want to motivate players to play the new content by giving them a chance at this rare item.

But why only give a (slim) chance at the item? Why not gurantee the item for players that spend an average of x hours playing the game? For me the prestige of the item is not important, I just want to have fancy looking skins for my weapons/armors/etc. (I really like the ambrite weapons btw!). So an obvious solution seems to be giving players another item every time they open one of those chests. It can’t be Geodes, because you can buy keys with them to open even more chests. It could work maybe, but the implications are too subtle for me to dive in now.
So we’ll invent a new account-bound item (remember, the devs have good reasons to make items account bound), and we make it so players can exchange a set amount of this item for one exotic insect. People who don’t care for those items can simply bin them (or we allow them to sell the items to NPCs, so they don’t feel cheated or something).

What are the implications of this? If players are lucky, they will still get the insect out of the chest, so no harm done here. But for all the other players it implies the following: they can make a good estimate of how much time they will have to invest to <b>definitly</b> receive the item they want. They know how many Geodes can be made on average per hour, which can be exchanged for lockpicks to open the chests. For the sake of simplicity let’s assume you get exactly one of those special items each time you open a chest. It’s really easy now to figure out how long it will take at maximum to be able to get the insect. Moreover, you have the chance at a <b>shortcut</b>, that is the insect dropping from one chest due to RNG.
The only difficult thing I see with this whole system would be finding a good estimate for the amount of items needed to get the insect. You don’t want the number too low, because then this whole discussion wouldn’t make any sense, but you also don’t want to make it too high, because players will be upset again.

What do you guys think?

Trading is the great equalizer of RNG. It baffles me that we can’t trade the Fossils. :/

Zaxares.5419:

Trading is the great equalizer of RNG. It baffles me that we can’t trade the Fossils. :/

Because then you have an entirely DIFFERENT group of people stomping their feet on here complaining about how they had earned something unique that someone else just bought with a credit card.

No, I don’t know why that matters, but apparently it does. And enough people whined about it that account bound items such as this exist.

Jski.6180:

Purple Miku.7032:

Jski.6180:

Purple Miku.7032:

Sytherek.7689:

3) Sell rare drops in the trading post for gems. People with money can buy the drop; people who have oodles of time/will can hunt for it. Please don’t hypocritically say rare things should be special, and then let people buy/sell “legendaries”.

This would be perfectly fine if there wasn’t a cash shop.

For people that like to play competitively (like myself), the fact that some jerk can swipe their credit card and have more ingame wealth than me is annoying to say the least.

Competitive wealth? That has got to be the worst ideal i have every head in my life. Any way the gems to gold is bad very bad and will most likely never out do any thing like a tp flipper if your going after real “competitive wealth.” Other then that skins more of what ppl want i am not sure how that can be competitive.

So you think my ideal of being competitive in an online game for acquiring wealth is a worse ideal than say, the devastation that was invisioned by those issuing the events that occurred in Pearl Harbor or the Holocaust?

That’s interesting.

Odd that you would put it that way but thoughts where EVENTS and they did not ask me nor did i hear them before they did it. I am guessing that the go to shock down ppl points of view kind of sad that you cant come up with a good counter argument that why wealth can be competitive i even came up with one for pve competitiveness that some what related to wealth though i think you missed that part of my post.

Agreed – perspective would be nice. I think that was the first post that has gone Godwin I’ve seen on these forums.

very well said OP

Rabe.2456:

… You don’t want the number too low, because then this whole discussion wouldn’t make any sense, but you also don’t want to make it too high, because players will be upset again.

What do you guys think?

That is, in one form or another (methodology varying) what we’ve been asking for. Some kind of incremental way to know that we’re getting what we’re eventually going after. Using a true RNG gives no feedback on the effort-reward assessment, no attempt at influence. It’s not just gambling, it’s winning and losing with every chest, and no one likes losing all the time.

Lobo Dela Noche.5127:

In DDO after running something 20 times they would give you a reward list filled with most of the rewards. So after grinding for a couple of months to get something you would have a greater chance at getting it. Sometimes what you wanted would still not end up being in the list but it still gave you a large list of items and normally at least 1 thing was usable. The idea that you could try for something your entire time playing and never get it is lamest thing I have ever heard. How anyone can defend that is beyond me. There is no reason ever for something to not be achievable in game when enough effort has been given. I and most others are not asking for free stuff. It is a simple thing to make it so something is random but gives you better chances as you keep trying. Or you can just make it so 1-3 tokens drop from every mob and it takes 1000 tokens. That way some will get lucky get there’s first but other people will still have a chance at getting it eventually.

I was afraid to mention that because it did have SOME downsides to it – however, the basic idea was good with some tweaking.

As long as Feather of Sun is nowhere near the RNG stat generation table, we’re golden.

chemiclord.3978:

Zaxares.5419:

Trading is the great equalizer of RNG. It baffles me that we can’t trade the Fossils. :/

Because then you have an entirely DIFFERENT group of people stomping their feet on here complaining about how they had earned something unique that someone else just bought with a credit card.

No, I don’t know why that matters, but apparently it does. And enough people whined about it that account bound items such as this exist.

Yeah, and I think that it’s stupid too. I never understood the idea of getting something just because it’s rare. If ANet released a truly unique, “only one of its kind ever dropped in the game” armor skin, but it was basically a pink, orange and green clown suit with a “I AM A NO LIFER WITH TOO MUCH CASH!” flashing neon sign mounted on the back, would you wear it just because it’s unique?

Zaxares.5419:

Yeah, and I think that it’s stupid too. I never understood the idea of getting something just because it’s rare. If ANet released a truly unique, “only one of its kind ever dropped in the game” armor skin, but it was basically a pink, orange and green clown suit with a “I AM A NO LIFER WITH TOO MUCH CASH!” flashing neon sign mounted on the back, would you wear it just because it’s unique?

Yah know, I don’t have a legendary for that very reason — I think most of them (not all) look silly.

But ANet puts in an elegant Amber bow that fits my character’s theme — and they lock it behind pure random luck.

So, I can BUY the supposed top items in the game, but I need LUCK to get an elegant skin, “less prestigious” skin?

Silly, if you ask me.

Zaxares.5419:

If ANet released a truly unique, “only one of its kind ever dropped in the game” armor skin, but it was basically a pink, orange and green clown suit with a “I AM A NO LIFER WITH TOO MUCH CASH!” flashing neon sign mounted on the back, would you wear it just because it’s unique?

No, but I would wear it, on occasion at least, because its hilarious.

In my opinion the best solution to painful RNG set ups is to allow essentially everything to be traded. When rewards, particularly content specific rewards, cannot be traded it ensures that the content is not rewarding for those who do not like that content’s specific rewards. But if the rewards can be traded then even someone who doesn’t like the rewards can play the content and get something of use or interest to him.

Sytherek.7689:

3) Sell rare drops in the trading post for gems. People with money can buy the drop; people who have oodles of time/will can hunt for it. Please don’t hypocritically say rare things should be special, and then let people buy/sell “legendaries”.
RNG is fun and entertaining.

Three letters why you don’t want to do this: P2W.

Every time “P2W” is called, a kitten gets kittened up the kitten with a stainless steel kitten. Just sayin’.

Typically, Pay to Win implies a significant power boost. Bonus skins, not a power boost. Legendaries? …eeeeh, slight power boost, also a very expensive one. I’m not shelling out close to $300 for one.

( By the way, refer to the always awesome Extra Credits: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mhz9OXy86a0 )

At the same time, making too many of the game’s exclusive items tradeable means that people are paying to skip content. People play to get the rewards they’re after, and/or the emotional fulfillment of the experience as they do so (which is also a reward). Removing play time by allowing content items to be purchased possibly reduces the chance that players will, well, play. Devs don’t necessarily want that.

Do I agree that the little bugs should be like that? Nope.
They don’t offer power, and there’s dozens of other skins in the game, not to mention it still requires some involvement to get the recipe, etc. Making those rare but tradeable isn’t such a bad thing. The devs should probably up the drop chance, since again, those items don’t provide power, only cosmetics, and that’s actually the kind of thing cash-shop games should be in the market of, anyway.

Ettanin.8271:

Three letters why you don’t want to do this: P2W.

One of these is not like the other >.>

:P

As of right now, I have done mass farming on 3 different skins that are account bound, and have failed to get the drop each time. Ultimately these items were design not to make the content better, they are made to artificially extend the life of content. I would not have farmed fractals as long if I had got my fractal dagger drop (multiple levels every day). I would have stop farming southsun if the crates I farmed for had the weapon token. And now I would not be farming wurm anymore if I got Pile of armor (4 months of killing the boss everyday). This gets extremely frustrating. I was thinking there were moving in the right direction with adding BL scraps to the chests, but they failed to implement this further.
The solution: Everytime you fail to get the Big drop, you get a token. Save up X amount of token, exchange it for the drop. You still get a chance at hitting the jackpot, but even when you don’t, you don’t feel like you just wasted 2 hour like I do everyday at wurm.

Rauderi.8706:

Every time “P2W” is called, a kitten gets kittened up the kitten with a stainless steel kitten. Just sayin’.

Typically, Pay to Win implies a significant power boost. Bonus skins, not a power boost. Legendaries? …eeeeh, slight power boost, also a very expensive one. I’m not shelling out close to $300 for one.

( By the way, refer to the always awesome Extra Credits: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mhz9OXy86a0 )

At the same time, making too many of the game’s exclusive items tradeable means that people are paying to skip content. People play to get the rewards they’re after, and/or the emotional fulfillment of the experience as they do so (which is also a reward). Removing play time by allowing content items to be purchased possibly reduces the chance that players will, well, play. Devs don’t necessarily want that.

Do I agree that the little bugs should be like that? Nope.
They don’t offer power, and there’s dozens of other skins in the game, not to mention it still requires some involvement to get the recipe, etc. Making those rare but tradeable isn’t such a bad thing. The devs should probably up the drop chance, since again, those items don’t provide power, only cosmetics, and that’s actually the kind of thing cash-shop games should be in the market of, anyway.

I think letting players trade stuff around is fine. Sure, they can pay to skip content, but that means they got money, or “tokens” somewhere else and are actually playing content.

Rauderi.8706:

Or if you wanted to be more rigorous about it, Mystic Forge:
Again, 250 “amber fragments” + 250 silky sand (or geodes, just thought of that) + the skillpoint wine bottle + 50 Thermo components from the craft vendors = 1 prized bugthing for making amberite weapons.
…or 250 geodes + 250 sand (500, the numbers don’t overly matter) + etc.

First week of the first episode, there was a forge recipe on reddit using ambrite and quartz. It wouldn’t produce anything (disabled) and when I checked it last night, it had been removed. If it was legit, I’ll bet this would have been the result.

I think the core problem here is “too bad rng”, not rng in itself. What if each zone could give a bonus on rng/magicfind (for chests too) if you invest time to play the zone in a variety of ways. The new zone-achievements would be a way, another would be to find as many unique events on a map as possible. Over time you’d get rewarded with good luck because you invested time in exploring a zone and getting achievements for it.

something like that:

• enhanced loot chances for getting achievement xy for the specific zone
• enhanced loot chances for finding new events
• enhanced loot chances for killing new champions
• enhanced loot chances for talking to certain npcs
  …

This way, for example, the dropchance of the fossil could go to up to 30% per rare chest. The more you do in a zone, the better the chance.

(a bit like a reward track for zones)

Hey guys, guys!

Guess what!

Precursors, and Legendary weapons, are optional.
No one is _forcing you to do the content, or grind for it, or stress over it.

It’s optional
: ))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))

Great suggestions in this thread.

I doubt ANet will pay any attention. “Working as intended” will be their mantra.

I agree with the OP and understand that RNG is a necessary evil but I think at this point it has become far too unbalanced in both the quantity of things being placed behind RNG and the % of those who obtain the wanted items. There is no doubt in my mind that monetization has very clearly overtaken the fun elements added to GW2 since it’s launch. Yes you need to provide recurring income but not every bloody area of the game needs to be heavily monetized in the houses favor, greed breeds greed.
I completely agree with the overall lack of the fun side of rewards, and nobody handled the loot table better in my mind that Turbine and Asheron’s Call. There needs to be a complete rebalancing of the percentages of the overall loot table and it can be done slowly and carefully as to not completely derail the economy but I will say that not doing so could have the same consequences of an economy run amuck…loss of players. What the OP has tried to voice and many, many other players have is far too much is hidden behind RNG and time gating and far too little is flat out there for the masses to attain and re-balancing is needed to keep people playing and bring in new players. Why not add things back into the loot table like keys and dyes and maybe items like food or consumables like salvage kits and tools etc.?

Vlad Morbius.1759:

Vini, Vidi, Vici, Viridis…I came, I saw, I conquered…I got a green??

So true.

Guild Wars is built on a carrot-on-a-stick reward model. Now, this makes sense in a subscription-based game, keeping people grinding.

But in a store-based revenue model, teasing people is counter-productive. The goal should be to make us happy so we buy stuff in the store. Instead, ANet makes the game frustrating, and people like me stop playing and buying.

I’m not asking for freebies. I’m asking for a guaranteed way to get a desired item. Precursors, I can buy. Rare mats, I can buy. Ascended items, I can eventually make, guaranteed.

Bug bow? Luck only.

Just because RNG is in a game doesn’t mean it doesn’t need to be tweaked. And I’m pretty sure in Guild Wars 2, some change to it is necessary.

Even a slightly better chance at getting precusors would help, but it’s not just precursors.

As I said before, there are plenty of easy low level things to get that are relatively meaningless and there are very hard very rare items. But there’s nothing really in the middle that drops with any kind of frequency.

In Guild Wars 1 it was lockpicks (in hard mode and Eye of the North), black and white dyes or even like silver, blue or red dyes. We used to have unidentified dyes, and now we don’t (even though account bound dyes are awesome).

The question is what could Anet add that would be like a mid level type drop that wouldn’t break the economy but would make people feel rewarded more often than they feel rewarded now?

the thing is: if it’s tradeable and only a percent of the players get’s the item and puts it on the tp, there will be hundreds/thousands of that item in the tp and it would lose value fast.

So my suggestion, contrary to the OP, make the rare skins accountbound in order to make higher droprates possible.

BUT in order to make those accountbound items any useful, make them salvageable.

Sytherek.7689:

Vlad Morbius.1759:

Vini, Vidi, Vici, Viridis…I came, I saw, I conquered…I got a green??

So true.

Guild Wars is built on a carrot-on-a-stick reward model. Now, this makes sense in a subscription-based game, keeping people grinding.

But in a store-based revenue model, teasing people is counter-productive. The goal should be to make us happy so we buy stuff in the store. Instead, ANet makes the game frustrating, and people like me stop playing and buying.

I’m not asking for freebies. I’m asking for a guaranteed way to get a desired item. Precursors, I can buy. Rare mats, I can buy. Ascended items, I can eventually make, guaranteed.

Bug bow? Luck only.

I agree, I got to the point that the more I saw as RNG the more I became aware of the outright greed and I just slammed my wallet closed. I don’t mind supporting a game if it is treating it’s player base fairly but I think far too much emphasis has been placed on monetization, and it’s becoming the norm. When I see some changes and a little more balance being brought back into the game on this particular issue I’ll start spending money again but until is see a change in philosophy I have no intention of continuing to spend, and I’m sure I am not alone on this.

It’s much much bigger than the skins. Even D3 has converted back to a better system with a 100% better chance of getting these higher end drops and removing the AHcentricness of their title.

This game could use an overhaul in the economy department which would solve many of the things they’ve done to harm not the bots mind you but the playerbase starting with getting rid of the TP entirely.

Cosmetics are just the tip of the overall iceberg of the problem here.

Case in point:

The fossilized bug just dropped for my daughter. She has no interest in any of the ambrite weapons.

I have SEVERAL heavy-armor headpieces . I have no heavy armor characters, and likely never will.

So, shouldn’t she be able to mail me the bug, since I can send her a mask?

Nope, not in ANet’s twisted logic.

I sent her the headpiece anyway.

tigirius.9014:

It’s much much bigger than the skins. Even D3 has converted back to a better system with a 100% better chance of getting these higher end drops and removing the AHcentricness of their title.

This game could use an overhaul in the economy department which would solve many of the things they’ve done to harm not the bots mind you but the playerbase starting with getting rid of the TP entirely.

Cosmetics are just the tip of the overall iceberg of the problem here.

Their resident economist is pretty sure his ideas are perfect, at least that’s the attitude he has in other threads.

I write software for the analysis of commodity markets. So I know a bit about the topic. I take input from people on how to improve my algorithms.

In truth, the Guild Wars 2 economy is well-designed. I shouldn’t be so grouchy, I suppose. So I’ll spend my time doing something else and spending my money somewhere else, until they decide to stop hanging carrots on luck-sticks.

More like double stripe loot sticks at that….for all you Wreck-it-Ralph fans out there

Sytherek.7689:

Great suggestions in this thread.

I doubt ANet will pay any attention. “Working as intended” will be their mantra.

It is working as intended. Want a Legendary – it is an optional grind. Same with Ascended items – optional.

You can be very competitive even with Green Items in GW2, if you know how to play.

Dusty Moon.4382:

Sytherek.7689:

Great suggestions in this thread.

I doubt ANet will pay any attention. “Working as intended” will be their mantra.

It is working as intended. Want a Legendary – it is an optional grind. Same with Ascended items – optional.

You can be very competitive even with Green Items in GW2, if you know how to play.

Which has nothing to do with this thread. I’m not talking about ascended items (have’em) or green items or anything you brought up. All those items are attainable via “hard” work.

The issue I raise is that a cosmetic item is ONLY available via pure, unmitigated LUCK. No matter how many chests I open, it is very possible the item will not drop. No amount of perseverance, digital sweat, or money can guarantee me the item.

I’d be glad to work for an insect. ANet won’t let me work for it.

It’s not laziness, or lack of trying, or lack of initiative, or unwillingness to spend money.

It’s a matter of LUCK only.

Sytherek.7689:

Dusty Moon.4382:

Sytherek.7689:

Great suggestions in this thread.

I doubt ANet will pay any attention. “Working as intended” will be their mantra.

It is working as intended. Want a Legendary – it is an optional grind. Same with Ascended items – optional.

You can be very competitive even with Green Items in GW2, if you know how to play.

Which has nothing to do with this thread. I’m not talking about ascended items (have’em) or green items or anything you brought up. All those items are attainable via “hard” work.

The issue I raise is that a cosmetic item is ONLY available via pure, unmitigated LUCK. No matter how many chests I open, it is very possible the item will not drop. No amount of perseverance, digital sweat, or money can guarantee me the item.

I’d be glad to work for an insect. ANet won’t let me work for it.

It’s not laziness, or lack of trying, or lack of initiative, or unwillingness to spend money.

It’s a matter of LUCK only.

You can probably also buy them as many of the skins are shared. Also, that does not change the fact that it is pure looks only, not FUNCTIONAL. If it was functional that is one thing, looks are totally subjective and a matter of preference. It has nothing to do with the game is working as intended and has everything to do with ‘Look AT Me’ syndrome.

Dusty Moon.4382:

Sytherek.7689:

Dusty Moon.4382:

Sytherek.7689:

Great suggestions in this thread.

I doubt ANet will pay any attention. “Working as intended” will be their mantra.

It is working as intended. Want a Legendary – it is an optional grind. Same with Ascended items – optional.

You can be very competitive even with Green Items in GW2, if you know how to play.

Which has nothing to do with this thread. I’m not talking about ascended items (have’em) or green items or anything you brought up. All those items are attainable via “hard” work.

The issue I raise is that a cosmetic item is ONLY available via pure, unmitigated LUCK. No matter how many chests I open, it is very possible the item will not drop. No amount of perseverance, digital sweat, or money can guarantee me the item.

I’d be glad to work for an insect. ANet won’t let me work for it.

It’s not laziness, or lack of trying, or lack of initiative, or unwillingness to spend money.

It’s a matter of LUCK only.

You can probably also buy them as many of the skins are shared. Also, that does not change the fact that it is pure looks only, not FUNCTIONAL. If it was functional that is one thing, looks are totally subjective and a matter of preference. It has nothing to do with the game is working as intended and has everything to do with ‘Look AT Me’ syndrome.

And what’s wrong with “look at me” in a game based on cosmetics? If the items are account bound, If the final item is account bound, why does that skin then need to be rare? Why not make it a common drop. The people who want it can get it. They can even farm for multiples. The people who only want to display hard to get items can ignore these skins in favor of the hard to get skins.

Dusty Moon.4382:

Sytherek.7689:

Dusty Moon.4382:

Sytherek.7689:

Great suggestions in this thread.

I doubt ANet will pay any attention. “Working as intended” will be their mantra.

It is working as intended. Want a Legendary – it is an optional grind. Same with Ascended items – optional.

You can be very competitive even with Green Items in GW2, if you know how to play.

Which has nothing to do with this thread. I’m not talking about ascended items (have’em) or green items or anything you brought up. All those items are attainable via “hard” work.

The issue I raise is that a cosmetic item is ONLY available via pure, unmitigated LUCK. No matter how many chests I open, it is very possible the item will not drop. No amount of perseverance, digital sweat, or money can guarantee me the item.

I’d be glad to work for an insect. ANet won’t let me work for it.

It’s not laziness, or lack of trying, or lack of initiative, or unwillingness to spend money.

It’s a matter of LUCK only.

You can probably also buy them as many of the skins are shared. Also, that does not change the fact that it is pure looks only, not FUNCTIONAL. If it was functional that is one thing, looks are totally subjective and a matter of preference. It has nothing to do with the game is working as intended and has everything to do with ‘Look AT Me’ syndrome.

I’m sorry, I usually try to stay out of internet drama, but you really seem to just be argumentative for the sake of being argumentative. It’s like you’re not even reading the posts but feel the need to completely be opposed to anything the OP says. Why? Please add to the discussion rather than try to derail the topic.

It does not matter what function an item has or why someone might want it. It is not necessary to lock it behind a pure luck mechanic when there are alternatives that would be better and make players happy without giving it away.