Guild Wars 2

Sytherek.7689:

Serophous.9085:

I’m surprised with the ops background he doesn’t just propose a new mmo on kick starter, propose his ideas, and let the money roll in.

Everyone hates RNG so it should be easy.

I don’t want to run a game company, and I left the game dev world a decade ago.

KickStarter is not the solution to everything, nor is it any guarantee of success. I much prefer applying game theory to commodity markets. And yes, I am part owner of my company.

All of that is, however, non sequitur to the main topic: I have not seen a single good reason for some parts of the game to be locked behind random chance, while other very similar parts are behind a paywall or can be earned deterministically thru gameplay.

Inconsistency is disatifying.

But again, with so many people agreeing with you, there must be a reason it hasn’t happened in another game. Or why someone hasn’t taken up the charge.

Sytherek.7689:

I write books. Back in the day before digital books, I had publishers send me an inevitable pair of oxymoronic questions:

“Name successful books that are just like yours.”

“Tell us how your book is unique.”

How can an author/developer create something unique that is the same as extant material?

That’s an easy one. They are looking to see if your book has similar characteristics to books that have earned money, while being unique enough to offer something that is not completely derivative. Taking the same idea to MMO’s, games that are too like the 500# gorilla are criticized for being copies, while games that are too unlike it “lack essential MMO features.”

At launch we did not have this issue. Everything was BoE or was SB through tokens you got for doing a particular dungeon or karma. Then the Betrayal patch happened. Not only did we get ascended gear grind, they added fractal weapons (RNG SB skins), RNG rings, which they latter added a vendor so you could at least get the right one for your build (over a month latter), and RNG recipes to dungeons.
Now over a year latter we are still living is this mess. The few get their skins first attempt, the many never get them and then just call sour grapes and move on to the next shiny. And for many of the RNG item, they are harder to get than legendaries. I made a incinerator before I got a fractal dagger to drop (doing fractal 3 times a day). I made Frostfang before getting a teq horde.
Why can Legionaries be sold but these items CAN NOT?

Serophous.9085:

But again, with so many people agreeing with you, there must be a reason it hasn’t happened in another game. Or why someone hasn’t taken up the charge.

People usually go along with what they already know works. Especially in entertainment, while there are people who specifically avoid what everyone else is watching/listening to/eating/wearing/etc. the majority follow the crowd and when something becomes popular it kind of snowballs. The bigger it gets, the faster it gets bigger.

Going in a different direction is harder. Without similar products to compare it to, investors consider it a bigger gamble because most new ideas don’t work out. You could invest in ten different things and only one makes money, much of which is taken by the losses from the other nine bad investments. The payoff is that sometimes you discover the next big thing and everyone copies your product, but your success means that you got more money faster from it.

It’s easy to say people want this, they don’t want that… but there’s a reason why Anet locks their new weapon skins in rng boxes and sells the keys. They make a profit month after month from this product that “the players hate.” With a specific quest or set of steps to get the same items, they would be a lot less successful. If it was too hard most players would give up, and if it was too easy everyone would get it and want more. They tweak drop rates until it’s possible to get lucky but the average player has to spend considerable time and effort (and/or money) to get it without getting frustrated and giving up.

Of course everyone’s tolerance and expectations are different, so some will get lucky and move on, some will give up and move on, but done right they capture the attention of the largest segment of players possible and keep them involved with the game. And because this is one of the most successful strategies, many games use it. It’s not something Anet created and they’re nowhere near the first to do so.

I get why everyone hates RNG, and I get that it would be hard to go against the norm, but it still shouldn’t stop people from trying.

I never understood the RNG on weapons. “900-1000 DMG” just make it 950 so I know how much it deals. Same with whatever increases DMG, make it an even amount so I know how much it gets increased. Do the same with armor and toughness, make it that I know how much DMG I am taking so I know when to pop a heal and go back to full because I’ll know how much it heals me.

With the chests, sure make it that I know how many fossil pieces I get, so I know how many boxes I need to find, thus letting me know how many keys I’ll need, so I know how many geodes I’ll collect, do I know how many events to do.

If I do something that I know what I am going to get, then I at least know if I should waste my time and effort on it.

Serophous.9085:

If I do something that I know what I am going to get, then I at least know if I should waste my time and effort on it.

I got it! I’ll set up an online game where you pay me $10 a month and I’ll email you weekly updates with # of enemies killed, XP gained, loot added to your collection, etc. You only need to spend 15 min a week on it so you won’t waste your time…

tolunart.2095:

Serophous.9085:

If I do something that I know what I am going to get, then I at least know if I should waste my time and effort on it.

I got it! I’ll set up an online game where you pay me $10 a month and I’ll email you weekly updates with # of enemies killed, XP gained, loot added to your collection, etc. You only need to spend 15 min a week on it so you won’t waste your time…

But will I know what loot is given to me?

Serophous.9085:

tolunart.2095:

Serophous.9085:

If I do something that I know what I am going to get, then I at least know if I should waste my time and effort on it.

I got it! I’ll set up an online game where you pay me $10 a month and I’ll email you weekly updates with # of enemies killed, XP gained, loot added to your collection, etc. You only need to spend 15 min a week on it so you won’t waste your time…

But will I know what loot is given to me?

For $15 a month you can schedule loot drops.

tolunart.2095:

Serophous.9085:

tolunart.2095:

Serophous.9085:

If I do something that I know what I am going to get, then I at least know if I should waste my time and effort on it.

I got it! I’ll set up an online game where you pay me $10 a month and I’ll email you weekly updates with # of enemies killed, XP gained, loot added to your collection, etc. You only need to spend 15 min a week on it so you won’t waste your time…

But will I know what loot is given to me?

For $15 a month you can schedule loot drops.

But I’m going to need to know more specifics. What drops in what zone, what mobs drop them, how many do I have to kill to get the amount of a material I want or an item I want. What do I get for completing activities there, exactly how many do I need to do?

People don’t want RNG, we need to know exact amounts.

Omar Aschi Popp.7496:

I dump absolutely every rare item I get into Mystic Forge, so far about 700+, only got 4 exotics from drops ever, NONE of which my char can even use but they sit in my bank and I treasure the shininess.

The game is not out to get me.
It’s not out to get you.
The “RNG” isn’t a sentient malevolent being. It’s a bunch of numbers.

You all need more tinfoil.

Oh, also, guys…
It’s, optional.
: ))))))))))))))))))))

Trolling aside i never stated rng was a being out to get me.Rng cankittenover however! While progression doesnt. You put int he work you get the result.
Your example of using mystic forge is bad. Because u ignore the key fact that anything rare u get from it can be bought on the tp. Which means there is always progression as you make gold in game. Account bound rng=0 progression which in turn=frustration(or possibly yaaaaay im so luky).

Gw2 endgame revolves around skins. Anet is basically dangling kool stuff we would like to have and making us play slot machines for it. Thats fine thats its optional but if you open your mind and put yourself in others shoes you shoudl see why people get upset by this stuff! People are over putting in tons of time becuz a certain desired skin and constantly getting nothing with no progress. Why woudlnt u want to change this? (trolling bak on) Maybe you will have a change of heart when anet releases a weapon set u love, u start the gamble and u dont get a thing..ever ;D harharhar. Then someone who put 100x less work gets it right away. Does that sound fun? If you didnt alrdy give up out of rng resentment you coudl sell your soul and still not get the skin before gw3 comes out! And btw, I’m not lookign for handouts just tired of gambling. I rather spend my time on guarenteed rewards over time rather than possible but not likely rewards. Ill never attempt to get rng account bound stuff again. and I’d like to see account bound rng weaps vanish fromt this game adn never return :P and im willing to bet only those special snowflakes who think there kool for being luky wants rng to stay.

OMNIBUS.2913:

Trolling aside i never stated rng was a being out to get me.Rng cankittenover however! While progression doesnt. You put int he work you get the result.
Your example of using mystic forge is bad. Because u ignore the key fact that anything rare u get from it can be bought on the tp. Which means there is always progression as you make gold in game. Account bound rng=0 progression which in turn=frustration(or possibly yaaaaay im so luky).

Gw2 endgame revolves around skins. Anet is basically dangling kool stuff we would like to have and making us play slot machines for it. Thats fine thats its optional but if you open your mind and put yourself in others shoes you shoudl see why people get upset by this stuff! People are over putting in tons of time becuz a certain desired skin and constantly getting nothing with no progress. Why woudlnt u want to change this? (trolling bak on) Maybe you will have a change of heart when anet releases a weapon set u love, u start the gamble and u dont get a thing..ever ;D harharhar. Then someone who put 100x less work gets it right away. Does that sound fun? If you didnt alrdy give up out of rng resentment you coudl sell your soul and still not get the skin before gw3 comes out! And btw, I’m not lookign for handouts just tired of gambling. I rather spend my time on guarenteed rewards over time rather than possible but not likely rewards. Ill never attempt to get rng account bound stuff again. and I’d like to see account bound rng weaps vanish fromt this game adn never return :P and im willing to bet only those special snowflakes who think there kool for being luky wants rng to stay.

Except I don’t use Trading Post. I play on exclusive drop-reliance. I sell to Merchants.

Maybe you’re talking to the wrongest person here because I have what seems to be a totally different mentality from both “lucky” and “rng hate” players.

There is no skin I desire. I get drops, and wear and equip what I like the look of best, out of what I am given. Wardrobe, to me, is unadulterated laziness.

To sum this up quite nicely, all you people are like lottery players protesting government/overseeing body to change the system because not enough of you are winning it big. In the lottery. And that’s just silly.

Sytherek.7689:

In a game where a primary goal is cosmetic, cosmetic matters. What else beyond cosmetics and achievements does GW2 offer? The game is openly focused on appearances. So appearances matter, or the game loses one of its major goals.

Cosmetics? You gotta be fudging me. I’ve been wearing Heritage Armor off and on or mixmatched with scale since day 1 because everything else is a treatise in laughable kittenry(flamboyancy).

Omar Aschi Popp.7496:

To sum this up quite nicely, all you people are like lottery players protesting government/overseeing body to change the system because not enough of you are winning it big. In the lottery. And that’s just silly.

The analogy does not really work because drops are not divided among winners.

In addition the OP, and others, are not necessarily requesting that they be allowed to win the lottery but rather that they be allowed to work for their prize instead of gambling for it.

Someone in this thread said that the SAB reward system was the perfect solution, and I agree.

1. There is a chance for sellable versions of the skins to drop from chests. This allows people to retain that sense of “Yay, lucky drop!” and rewards luck.

2. You can earn an account-bound version of the skin from repeating the content and amassing tokens. This allows people who are unlucky to eventually work for the skin they want. It rewards dedication.

3. If you don’t have the time or don’t like the content in question (e.g. you love the SAB skins, but you hate/are terrible at jumping puzzles), you can simply buy a skin from one of the people from Group 1. This helps control inflation via the TP tax and possibly rewards ANet from the odd person who decides to buy gems and convert them into gold.

It seems this thread has gotten to the length where whatever i say and whatever has been said, the OP ignores it.
Stop being a whiny kitten because you didn’t drop a precusor.
ALOT of us don’t drop precusors and get over it.
Legendaries aren’t what makes the game good, if you think it does and thats all you care about quit now.

You account bind some fraction of the rewards from new content to ensure that the players who have been logging in and accumulating wealth daily for a couple years now do not simply open up the TP and hit ‘buy’ to acquire everything you added in a matter of minutes. The way they’ve been balancing rewards these past few patches is consistent with this and has been executed pretty well.

Ensign.2189:

You account bind some fraction of the rewards from new content to ensure that the players who have been logging in and accumulating wealth daily for a couple years now do not simply open up the TP and hit ‘buy’ to acquire everything you added in a matter of minutes. The way they’ve been balancing rewards these past few patches is consistent with this and has been executed pretty well.

Most players just give up after a month of fract dailies, much less years and not seeing that coveted skin that you wanted or tonic because fracts can take a long time. Meanwhile some lucky kitten got their tonic upon reaching lvl 40 of fracts. To be clear, not envious of said lucky kitten at all; at the very least, it should be allowed to trade on the TP for people who want the item and is willing to “work” for it. It is odd they allowed ascended ring purchases with fract pristine relic tokens after feedback and they dont sell fract weapon skins and the tonic for the same tokens; albeit for a absurd grindy amount.

Fracts is not like doing your dailies.

Omar Aschi Popp.7496:

Except I don’t use Trading Post. I play on exclusive drop-reliance. I sell to Merchants.

Maybe you’re talking to the wrongest person here because I have what seems to be a totally different mentality from both “lucky” and “rng hate” players.

There is no skin I desire. I get drops, and wear and equip what I like the look of best, out of what I am given. Wardrobe, to me, is unadulterated laziness.

To sum this up quite nicely, all you people are like lottery players protesting government/overseeing body to change the system because not enough of you are winning it big. In the lottery. And that’s just silly.

That is your personal choice to not use the TP. You can acquire your rare drops more reliably on tp.
The whole point of this post is so we dont have to play lottery. Cause some of us again dont like gambling and making it the only way to acquire something just makes me not want to bother with it. In real life i dont gamble or play the lottery ever. I earn my money from going to work :P I’d like this earnability for everything in the game.

To be honest precursors are OK in my mind. You can get lucky or spend gold to buy it directly. My only issue is that Anet has been holding the precursor scavenger hunt over the players heads since 2 months into the games launch. They even said they would have it done with precursor crafting by the end of 2013. We are now 6 months late with no future feature blog posts stating when it will be done.
My issue is with RNG BOA skins, fractal weapons, fossilized bugs, teq hordes, piles of puke armor. These need none RNG methods of getting. fractal skins need to be added to the vendor for large amounts of pristine relics. Unidentified bugs needs to be able to be sold on tp. Teq and Wurm loot needs token you get if you don’t get the item. Get X amount of token, double click them like silky sand and get your horde or pile. You can make X whatever amount you feel is fair. IMO, I say killing a world boss 30 days in a row, you should get the item you are trying to farm.
And there you go, I’ve fixed all the RNG loot using mechanics already in the game. To bad no dev will give this the time of day because they are living with their head in the sand.

OMNIBUS.2913:

Omar Aschi Popp.7496:

Except I don’t use Trading Post. I play on exclusive drop-reliance. I sell to Merchants.

Maybe you’re talking to the wrongest person here because I have what seems to be a totally different mentality from both “lucky” and “rng hate” players.

There is no skin I desire. I get drops, and wear and equip what I like the look of best, out of what I am given. Wardrobe, to me, is unadulterated laziness.

To sum this up quite nicely, all you people are like lottery players protesting government/overseeing body to change the system because not enough of you are winning it big. In the lottery. And that’s just silly.

That is your personal choice to not use the TP. You can acquire your rare drops more reliably on tp.
The whole point of this post is so we dont have to play lottery. Cause some of us again dont like gambling and making it the only way to acquire something just makes me not want to bother with it. In real life i dont gamble or play the lottery ever. I earn my money from going to work :P I’d like this earnability for everything in the game.

Fine.
Like a paleontologist crying to God/Science/FSM/Real-Life Cosmic RNG, because HIS fossilized amberite mosquito didn’t drop, even though he spend 1700 hours and 19 years totally digging like everywhere.

That is EXACTLY what you’re doing.

It’s optional. Just stop.
That’s what you all told me when I disliked Drytop and laggy LS.
It’s optional.

Omar Aschi Popp.7496:

Fine.
Like a paleontologist crying to God/Science/FSM/Real-Life Cosmic RNG, because HIS fossilized amberite mosquito didn’t drop, even though he spend 1700 hours and 19 years totally digging like everywhere.

That is EXACTLY what you’re doing.

It’s optional. Just stop.
That’s what you all told me when I disliked Drytop and laggy LS.
It’s optional.

I’m suggesting a change for the better of the game, thats what im doing. If they continue adding rng only weaps i’m pretty sure these posts will only pop up more and more XD. And I alrdy stated I stopped lol. Gave up on fractal weapons sometime ago. Almost finished with my first legendary becuz of it. Dont care about the bug weapons personally but similar concept. This is a game and its supposed to be fun.The Rng is still 0 fun and just frustrating for so many. Why do u cry against the idea of getting rid of pure rng? why is such a bad thing to allow weapons to be earned guarenteed over time?

Panites.6798:

It seems this thread has gotten to the length where whatever i say and whatever has been said, the OP ignores it.
Stop being a whiny kitten because you didn’t drop a precusor.
ALOT of us don’t drop precusors and get over it.
Legendaries aren’t what makes the game good, if you think it does and thats all you care about quit now.

Umm… I don’t want a precursor or legendary. Zero interest.

Also, no QQ here, so your rudeness is meaningless. Asking for feature changes is not QQ.

Also, I have the desired item now, and still think pure RNG is bad.

I skimmed…. I chuckled.

The short, and simple truth of the matter is that RNG loot is a necessary evil in games. Not just MMOs, games in general. Honestly, the amberized bugs aren’t any different than opening chest after chest in GW1 looking for that perfect 15^50, +20% (or whatever) r9 in GW1. Does no one recall that nightmare and the cost of some weapons prior to inscriptions? It’s the same thing.

It’s no different than going out to farm whatever unique from whichever specific boss dropped it. Your friend could go do the run 4 times and get it, you could do it 400 times and still not get it. That’s just how it works. It supposed to make you frustrated. So you walk away, take a deep breath, come back and continue doing it. It is the hook that makes you continue to play. “I want this, so I’m going to get it or die trying”

Now, this hook doesn’t work for some people. It’s not how their mentality works. They desire additional options for acquisition (above and beyond the repetitive ‘grind,’ farming isn’t their ‘thing’). They want to be able to buy it from players. They want to be able to buy it for real money. Etc, etc. I’m not against additional acquisition options; however, their impact on the game as a whole (not just economically) has to be taken into consideration.

Upping drop rates, making things sellable via the trading post, etc may sound all well and good but can end up being a double edged sword.

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

I skimmed…. I chuckled.

The short, and simple truth of the matter is that RNG loot is a necessary evil in games. Not just MMOs, games in general. Honestly, the amberized bugs aren’t any different than opening chest after chest in GW1 looking for that perfect 15^50, +20% (or whatever) r9 in GW1. Does no one recall that nightmare and the cost of some weapons prior to inscriptions? It’s the same thing.

It’s no different than going out to farm whatever unique from whichever specific boss dropped it. Your friend could go do the run 4 times and get it, you could do it 400 times and still not get it. That’s just how it works. It supposed to make you frustrated. So you walk away, take a deep breath, come back and continue doing it. It is the hook that makes you continue to play. “I want this, so I’m going to get it or die trying”

Now, this hook doesn’t work for some people. It’s not how their mentality works. They desire additional options for acquisition (above and beyond the repetitive ‘grind,’ farming isn’t their ‘thing’). They want to be able to buy it from players. They want to be able to buy it for real money. Etc, etc. I’m not against additional acquisition options; however, their impact on the game as a whole (not just economically) has to be taken into consideration.

Upping drop rates, making things sellable via the trading post, etc may sound all well and good but can end up being a double edged sword.

It is different becuase in Gw1 everything was tradeable(thank god). Plz explain why making fractal weapons and bug weapons sellable on tp would be a double edged sword… or the other option, why woudl making them earnable through a similiar token system like dungeons be a bad thing?

Apparently the opinion is shared by the Chinese players;
http://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/2bxieq/helpfrom_may_to_now_all_my_friends_are_afkchinese/

Apparently we have it much better than they do at this point, but if they are leaving we can expect them to up the RNG to try offset the loss of income from that market, so I don’t see it getting any better anytime soon.

It boils down to the fact that the reward system has been totally redesigned to optimize monetization and RNG plays a major role in that design. I’ve often said it needs to be here to keep earning money but it is completely out of balance at this point, hell I’m surprised they haven’t started charging gems just to log in.

Omar Aschi Popp.7496:

Hey guys, guys!

Guess what!

Precursors, and Legendary weapons, are optional.
No one is _forcing you to do the content, or grind for it, or stress over it.

It’s optional
: ))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))

A house is optional, too.

Video is relevant. Sorry if it got linked already.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tWtvrPTbQ_c

Vol.7601:

“2) RNG as implemented isn’t fair.
Nope, life ain’t fair. GW2 is not life, it is a game. It is entertainment. Frustration is not fun.”

Isn’t gambling entertainment? Casinos? Racetracks? Believe it or not, some people like gambling because it’s fun and entertaining.

Sorry Vol, but this is the stupidest thing you have ever written on this forum. Computer game which is advertised as a game for +12 children and families, with lots of aesthetics and content which is definitely for young audience should NOT contain casino aspects! If anything, it only spoils children and teaches them to gamble. And YES, gambling is BAD and dangerous.

I don’t want gambling to be a part of Guild Wars 2.

Mortifer.2946:

Vol.7601:

“2) RNG as implemented isn’t fair.
Nope, life ain’t fair. GW2 is not life, it is a game. It is entertainment. Frustration is not fun.”

Isn’t gambling entertainment? Casinos? Racetracks? Believe it or not, some people like gambling because it’s fun and entertaining.

Sorry Vol, but this is the stupidest thing you have ever written on this forum. Computer game which is advertised as a game for +12 children and families, with lots of aesthetics and content which is definitely for young audience should NOT contain casino aspects! If anything, it only spoils children and teaches them to gamble. And YES, gambling is BAD and dangerous.

I don’t want gambling to be a part of Guild Wars 2.

Not to mention there are other ways of getting money besides gambling.

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

….
It’s no different than going out to farm whatever unique from whichever specific boss dropped it. Your friend could go do the run 4 times and get it, you could do it 400 times and still not get it. That’s just how it works. It supposed to make you frustrated. So you walk away, take a deep breath, come back and continue doing it. It is the hook that makes you continue to play. “I want this, so I’m going to get it or die trying”
…
.

Err no people just give up trying. 400 times is no guarantee u will get the item, neither is 40000 times for that matter. By then if u tried 40000 times on fracts, u will have spent 40000hrs at least in vain.

I agree with one thing – playing GW2 is optional.

I thought we were talking about RNG skins and not BL keys and I chuckle whenever “think of the children” faux moralists complain about virtual gambling in a video game. You would think these guys would advocate people ban all video games IRL because they are unproductive or slam Zuckerberg for creating Facebook and becoming a billionaire in the process. For that matter $4 million a year PewDiePie.

Priorities people.

OMNIBUS.2913:

Omar Aschi Popp.7496:

Fine.
Like a paleontologist crying to God/Science/FSM/Real-Life Cosmic RNG, because HIS fossilized amberite mosquito didn’t drop, even though he spend 1700 hours and 19 years totally digging like everywhere.

That is EXACTLY what you’re doing.

It’s optional. Just stop.
That’s what you all told me when I disliked Drytop and laggy LS.
It’s optional.

I’m suggesting a change for the better of the game, thats what im doing. If they continue adding rng only weaps i’m pretty sure these posts will only pop up more and more XD. And I alrdy stated I stopped lol. Gave up on fractal weapons sometime ago. Almost finished with my first legendary becuz of it. Dont care about the bug weapons personally but similar concept. This is a game and its supposed to be fun.The Rng is still 0 fun and just frustrating for so many. Why do u cry against the idea of getting rid of pure rng? why is such a bad thing to allow weapons to be earned guarenteed over time?

But it is fun when in works in your/our favour.
You lie if you say otherwise.

Like, Pinnochio, a fib-fib, Fibberer!

My new Twin Sword that I just got from Fallen Adventurer Pack… SO EXITE!

OMNIBUS.2913:

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

I skimmed…. I chuckled.

The short, and simple truth of the matter is that RNG loot is a necessary evil in games. Not just MMOs, games in general. Honestly, the amberized bugs aren’t any different than opening chest after chest in GW1 looking for that perfect 15^50, +20% (or whatever) r9 in GW1. Does no one recall that nightmare and the cost of some weapons prior to inscriptions? It’s the same thing.

It’s no different than going out to farm whatever unique from whichever specific boss dropped it. Your friend could go do the run 4 times and get it, you could do it 400 times and still not get it. That’s just how it works. It supposed to make you frustrated. So you walk away, take a deep breath, come back and continue doing it. It is the hook that makes you continue to play. “I want this, so I’m going to get it or die trying”

Now, this hook doesn’t work for some people. It’s not how their mentality works. They desire additional options for acquisition (above and beyond the repetitive ‘grind,’ farming isn’t their ‘thing’). They want to be able to buy it from players. They want to be able to buy it for real money. Etc, etc. I’m not against additional acquisition options; however, their impact on the game as a whole (not just economically) has to be taken into consideration.

Upping drop rates, making things sellable via the trading post, etc may sound all well and good but can end up being a double edged sword.

It is different becuase in Gw1 everything was tradeable(thank god). Plz explain why making fractal weapons and bug weapons sellable on tp would be a double edged sword… or the other option, why woudl making them earnable through a similiar token system like dungeons be a bad thing?

Yes, everything was tradable in GW1, and look at some of the prices for the rarities. How many people do you think could actually afford the mini polar bear?

The amberite weapons are supposed to be a symbol that the user 1) did the content to obtain the bug (at least to some extent) and 2) that they craft. It’s not the best status symbol, I’ll admit, but it’s a start.

The fractal weapons are similar in that they scream to the world that this person plays fractals, and has likely climbed well up the ladder to get that weapon.

These are items that give the player the ability to be unique, at least to a small extent. Have many not been asking for things that do exactly that? Items that help them ‘stand out’ in the crowd?

Making these tradable would remove that uniqueness. It would likely produce the same response that a lot of people have in regards to legendaries. ‘Whoopy ding, you can buy it, you probably just cc’ed it’ Legendaries are not legendary because they can be purchased. Even for those that build their own, the sense of accomplishment is diminished, especially if they could have bought the darn thing for less than what it cost them to make it.

Making them tradable would have a significant impact on the economy. As others have pointed out, and yet others have admitted to, they horde such rarities until the price climbs and they can make a significant profit on it. To negate how much of an impact this could have, they could increase the drop rate, but then you decrease the rarity and desirability of the item. Final Rest is an excellent example. While it was bugged, and super rare, it’s price sky rocketed. It was this ‘awesome’ skin that people wanted. Now, with the bug fixed, its worth what…1 – 2 gold? People could care less about it, its just ‘another’ skin.

There are pros and cons to every decision, and such changes need to take them all into account.

In regards to setting up a token system, we fall back into the conversation of do we really need another currency? Beyond that, if they do this for fractals, should this also then be applied to other super rare skins, like Teq’s drops? Should they be different currencies? Should it be one shared currency? If they implement it so that you get 1 token per each successful run, does this then minimize the ‘wow’ factor when you finally get a weapon? Does it turn it into ‘just another grind’? Like I said, there are a lot of things to consider, and some decisions can bite you in the kitten .

Khal Drogo.9631:

Err no people just give up trying. 400 times is no guarantee u will get the item, neither is 40000 times for that matter. By then if u tried 40000 times on fracts, u will have spent 40000hrs at least in vain.

Apparently some don’t because they just keep doing it. Of course, others just bot it and then get banned. But, raids and raid like content are prefect examples of this, where people do the same crap over and over and over again because they want something. Last time I checked, there were a lot of people calling for raids in GW2. Fractals really aren’t any different. They were added specifically for these grind happy people.

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

I skimmed…. I chuckled.

The short, and simple truth of the matter is that RNG loot is a necessary evil in games. Not just MMOs, games in general. Honestly, the amberized bugs aren’t any different than opening chest after chest in GW1 looking for that perfect 15^50, +20% (or whatever) r9 in GW1. Does no one recall that nightmare and the cost of some weapons prior to inscriptions? It’s the same thing.

you can do everything with less than perfect stats, you’re trying to justify something that is simply BS.

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

Khal Drogo.9631:

Err no people just give up trying. 400 times is no guarantee u will get the item, neither is 40000 times for that matter. By then if u tried 40000 times on fracts, u will have spent 40000hrs at least in vain.

Apparently some don’t because they just keep doing it. Of course, others just bot it and then get banned. But, raids and raid like content are prefect examples of this, where people do the same crap over and over and over again because they want something. Last time I checked, there were a lot of people calling for raids in GW2. Fractals really aren’t any different. They were added specifically for these grind happy people.

To the detriment of rational players who want those skins. The only reason I do fracts is for tokens in exchange for ascended rings with stats that cannot be crafted and getting tokens for 20 slot bags in the process. Anything else is a bonus. Once I got the ring I wanted, not doing fracts unless the mood takes me and a guildie invites me.

Not going to grind for nothing guaranteed in return.

To think about it, as long as RNG drops things like Cleric’s Handbag of the Wizard (totally made that up :P), we need account/soulbinding?

Why? Because loot drops create something from nothing. By removing the ability to trade in certain things, we can, nominally, ensure that resources are needed to keep an economy moving.

The bug RNG (and precursor and and…) is still garbage, of course.

sorudo.9054:

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

I skimmed…. I chuckled.

The short, and simple truth of the matter is that RNG loot is a necessary evil in games. Not just MMOs, games in general. Honestly, the amberized bugs aren’t any different than opening chest after chest in GW1 looking for that perfect 15^50, +20% (or whatever) r9 in GW1. Does no one recall that nightmare and the cost of some weapons prior to inscriptions? It’s the same thing.

you can do everything with less than perfect stats, you’re trying to justify something that is simply BS.

Well of course you can do everything with less than perfect stats. That wasn’t the point being made via the comparison. That doesn’t really have anything to do with the topic in general.

Besides, just because you can doesn’t reduce, or eliminate, the desire to have BiS. Check out some of the arguments over ascended in that regard.

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

Yes, everything was tradable in GW1, and look at some of the prices for the rarities. How many people do you think could actually afford the mini polar bear?

The amberite weapons are supposed to be a symbol that the user 1) did the content to obtain the bug (at least to some extent) and 2) that they craft. It’s not the best status symbol, I’ll admit, but it’s a start.

The fractal weapons are similar in that they scream to the world that this person plays fractals, and has likely climbed well up the ladder to get that weapon.

These are items that give the player the ability to be unique, at least to a small extent. Have many not been asking for things that do exactly that? Items that help them ‘stand out’ in the crowd?

Making these tradable would remove that uniqueness. It would likely produce the same response that a lot of people have in regards to legendaries. ‘Whoopy ding, you can buy it, you probably just cc’ed it’ Legendaries are not legendary because they can be purchased. Even for those that build their own, the sense of accomplishment is diminished, especially if they could have bought the darn thing for less than what it cost them to make it.

Making them tradable would have a significant impact on the economy. As others have pointed out, and yet others have admitted to, they horde such rarities until the price climbs and they can make a significant profit on it. To negate how much of an impact this could have, they could increase the drop rate, but then you decrease the rarity and desirability of the item. Final Rest is an excellent example. While it was bugged, and super rare, it’s price sky rocketed. It was this ‘awesome’ skin that people wanted. Now, with the bug fixed, its worth what…1 – 2 gold? People could care less about it, its just ‘another’ skin.

There are pros and cons to every decision, and such changes need to take them all into account.

In regards to setting up a token system, we fall back into the conversation of do we really need another currency? Beyond that, if they do this for fractals, should this also then be applied to other super rare skins, like Teq’s drops? Should they be different currencies? Should it be one shared currency? If they implement it so that you get 1 token per each successful run, does this then minimize the ‘wow’ factor when you finally get a weapon? Does it turn it into ‘just another grind’? Like I said, there are a lot of things to consider, and some decisions can bite you in the kitten .

People who put in a lot of work on the game can afford the mini polar bear(and its gaurenteed). Bug weapons and fractal weaps especially r not a symbol that people spent ample time doing the content. Its a symbol of luck, cuz its rng with no progression. And you can get them right away if ur lucky.
You only support that these weaps shoudl be tradeable then cause legendaries are supposed to be the rarest weapons in the game and can be bought like the majority of stuff in this game. So why cant fractal and bug weapons be bought as well?
FYI my necro rocks final rest staff and she looks amazing. That “prestigious only me has it” desirability you speak of is just peoples big egos. I can show u a screenie if u want shes so awesome, and with mostly basic gears too. I get compliments on her look all the time :P
Its far more grindy to leave it as rng assuming your luck is bad like mine(lets not forget about the chance u may never get the weapon). And yes there shoudl be ways to earn all those things through any other way than just rng. It doesnt remove any wow factor becuase im alrdy upset about the amount of time i’ve wasted. Even if i got it now i would still be smh….

Khal Drogo.9631:

To the detriment of rational players who want those skins. The only reason I do fracts is for tokens in exchange for ascended rings with stats that cannot be crafted and getting tokens for 20 slot bags in the process. Anything else is a bonus. Once I got the ring I wanted, not doing fracts unless the mood takes me and a guildie invites me.

I didn’t even do fractals for the rings. I used laurels. I’ve done fractals enough to experience most of them once, for the lore perspective. I do want the sword skin, but I have no motivation to play that content with people.

Khal Drogo.9631:

Not going to grind for nothing guaranteed in return.

This isn’t any different than say, going out into the Floodplain of Mahnkelon to kill Jerneh Nightbringer because you want The Nightbringer staff that he drops. There is no guarantee that it will drop during any specific run. Hell, there’s no guarantee he’ll drop anything at all during a run. But people do it over and over and over again. I have no idea how many times I killed him trying to get it. The only guarantee is that he’s the only one that can drop it.

At least in fractals you have a variety of critters that ‘can’ drop the skins.

Omar Aschi Popp.7496:

OMNIBUS.2913:

Omar Aschi Popp.7496:

Fine.
Like a paleontologist crying to God/Science/FSM/Real-Life Cosmic RNG, because HIS fossilized amberite mosquito didn’t drop, even though he spend 1700 hours and 19 years totally digging like everywhere.

That is EXACTLY what you’re doing.

It’s optional. Just stop.
That’s what you all told me when I disliked Drytop and laggy LS.
It’s optional.

I’m suggesting a change for the better of the game, thats what im doing. If they continue adding rng only weaps i’m pretty sure these posts will only pop up more and more XD. And I alrdy stated I stopped lol. Gave up on fractal weapons sometime ago. Almost finished with my first legendary becuz of it. Dont care about the bug weapons personally but similar concept. This is a game and its supposed to be fun.The Rng is still 0 fun and just frustrating for so many. Why do u cry against the idea of getting rid of pure rng? why is such a bad thing to allow weapons to be earned guarenteed over time?

But it is fun when in works in your/our favour.
You lie if you say otherwise.

Like, Pinnochio, a fib-fib, Fibberer!

My new Twin Sword that I just got from Fallen Adventurer Pack… SO EXITE!

RNG does get implemented usually so you don’t get what you want as quickly as you wish to.

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

Khal Drogo.9631:

To the detriment of rational players who want those skins. The only reason I do fracts is for tokens in exchange for ascended rings with stats that cannot be crafted and getting tokens for 20 slot bags in the process. Anything else is a bonus. Once I got the ring I wanted, not doing fracts unless the mood takes me and a guildie invites me.

I didn’t even do fractals for the rings. I used laurels. I’ve done fractals enough to experience most of them once, for the lore perspective. I do want the sword skin, but I have no motivation to play that content with people.

Khal Drogo.9631:

Not going to grind for nothing guaranteed in return.

This isn’t any different than say, going out into the Floodplain of Mahnkelon to kill Jerneh Nightbringer because you want The Nightbringer staff that he drops. There is no guarantee that it will drop during any specific run. Hell, there’s no guarantee he’ll drop anything at all during a run. But people do it over and over and over again. I have no idea how many times I killed him trying to get it. The only guarantee is that he’s the only one that can drop it.

At least in fractals you have a variety of critters that ‘can’ drop the skins.

If I am not mistaken mobs in fracts do NOT drop fract skins. My laurels are used for other purposes. I did not play GW1 extensively so I do not get the reference.

People play MMOs for recognition by other MMO players? Maybe in other MMOs but certainly not this MMO. And rightly so – if Anet made an elitist MMO, guess how long would it survive.

HHR LostProphet.4801:

RNG does get implemented usually so you don’t get what you want as quickly as you wish to.

Thats not how RNG works. There is a chance of “never”.

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

Khal Drogo.9631:

To the detriment of rational players who want those skins. The only reason I do fracts is for tokens in exchange for ascended rings with stats that cannot be crafted and getting tokens for 20 slot bags in the process. Anything else is a bonus. Once I got the ring I wanted, not doing fracts unless the mood takes me and a guildie invites me.

I didn’t even do fractals for the rings. I used laurels. I’ve done fractals enough to experience most of them once, for the lore perspective. I do want the sword skin, but I have no motivation to play that content with people.

Khal Drogo.9631:

Not going to grind for nothing guaranteed in return.

This isn’t any different than say, going out into the Floodplain of Mahnkelon to kill Jerneh Nightbringer because you want The Nightbringer staff that he drops. There is no guarantee that it will drop during any specific run. Hell, there’s no guarantee he’ll drop anything at all during a run. But people do it over and over and over again. I have no idea how many times I killed him trying to get it. The only guarantee is that he’s the only one that can drop it.

At least in fractals you have a variety of critters that ‘can’ drop the skins.

You clearly dont know how fractals work. And PLease read this PLZ PLZ PLZ. Nightbringer staff can be bought!! Le gasp another way to earn it other than rng! now unless you have something to counter plz stop using that arguement.

HHR LostProphet.4801:

Omar Aschi Popp.7496:

OMNIBUS.2913:

Omar Aschi Popp.7496:

Fine.
Like a paleontologist crying to God/Science/FSM/Real-Life Cosmic RNG, because HIS fossilized amberite mosquito didn’t drop, even though he spend 1700 hours and 19 years totally digging like everywhere.

That is EXACTLY what you’re doing.

It’s optional. Just stop.
That’s what you all told me when I disliked Drytop and laggy LS.
It’s optional.

I’m suggesting a change for the better of the game, thats what im doing. If they continue adding rng only weaps i’m pretty sure these posts will only pop up more and more XD. And I alrdy stated I stopped lol. Gave up on fractal weapons sometime ago. Almost finished with my first legendary becuz of it. Dont care about the bug weapons personally but similar concept. This is a game and its supposed to be fun.The Rng is still 0 fun and just frustrating for so many. Why do u cry against the idea of getting rid of pure rng? why is such a bad thing to allow weapons to be earned guarenteed over time?

But it is fun when in works in your/our favour.
You lie if you say otherwise.

Like, Pinnochio, a fib-fib, Fibberer!

My new Twin Sword that I just got from Fallen Adventurer Pack… SO EXITE!

RNG does get implemented usually so you don’t get what you want as quickly as you wish to.

Im sure anyone would be happy with a random precursor drop! but just in case it never drops for me i can buy it. Which i did. Never gotten a nice precursor drop cuz rng fails me so last week i boguht chaos gun with all the gold i earned playign the game.

RNG has played an intergal role in almost all RPGs. From D&D to most computer based RPGs (online multiplayer games, to offline single player games). As a GM for a tabletop RPG, all the drops are RNG based. Granted I do have the ability to award a certain item if I desire, like a special amulet that is required for the next stage for example. Even if there are some games that have BiS gear, or story gear, locked behind a series of events or mini games, there is still much that is locked behind RNG. So why shouldn’t this genre, or game specifially, not have RNG locked items? Have an extensive quest to get a certain item in my mind lessens the overall value of said item. Because with enough time everyone can get it. It then becomes a common item with little value to anyone. Keeping items RNG based increases the value, and the satisfaction of getting such an item, much higher.

pdavis.8031:

Because with enough time everyone can get it.

Wrong. And that is the problem i have with it.

edit: Oops i misread but only egotistocal people think that way. I’m not trying to 1 up others in this game by showing something someone else cant have due to rng and not even skill or dedication.

pdavis.8031:

RNG has played an intergal role in almost all RPGs. From D&D to most computer based RPGs (online multiplayer games, to offline single player games). As a GM for a tabletop RPG, all the drops are RNG based. Granted I do have the ability to award a certain item if I desire, like a special amulet that is required for the next stage for example. Even if there are some games that have BiS gear, or story gear, locked behind a series of events or mini games, there is still much that is locked behind RNG. So why shouldn’t this genre, or game specifially, not have RNG locked items? Have an extensive quest to get a certain item in my mind lessens the overall value of said item. Because with enough time everyone can get it. It then becomes a common item with little value to anyone. Keeping items RNG based increases the value, and the satisfaction of getting such an item, much higher.

Its not RNG in general – its account bound RNG that bothers people. For example Ley line weapon skins – I like them so much I got 6 or 7 of them via the TP. Others may find they too thick and unrefined but its their taste after all – if they dont like them they can sell them if they got one via RNG.

Skill in GW2 PvE? LOL? Maybe AP is a much better measure of dedication (some say addiction) than any cosmetic skin.

Doesnt take a genius to figure out what people’s political views are IRL if they abhor RNG in games.

OMNIBUS.2913:

pdavis.8031:

Because with enough time everyone can get it.

Wrong. And that is the problem i have with it.

How is having quest gated items, that has a 100% “chance” of getting that item at the completion of the quest chain make it so that not everyone get obtain it? If you have a persistant quest line, much like the PS, that everyone can do, then eventually everyone will be able to get that item. Of course they are not required to do that quest, but that doesn’t mean they won’t be able to get it.

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

sorudo.9054:

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

I skimmed…. I chuckled.

The short, and simple truth of the matter is that RNG loot is a necessary evil in games. Not just MMOs, games in general. Honestly, the amberized bugs aren’t any different than opening chest after chest in GW1 looking for that perfect 15^50, +20% (or whatever) r9 in GW1. Does no one recall that nightmare and the cost of some weapons prior to inscriptions? It’s the same thing.

you can do everything with less than perfect stats, you’re trying to justify something that is simply BS.

Well of course you can do everything with less than perfect stats. That wasn’t the point being made via the comparison. That doesn’t really have anything to do with the topic in general.

Besides, just because you can doesn’t reduce, or eliminate, the desire to have BiS. Check out some of the arguments over ascended in that regard.

true, and same thing.
i have some cheap exotic armor and still make it, it has more to do with skill.
i don’t need max all to survive, others might say it’s essential but i call BS on that.

pdavis.8031:

OMNIBUS.2913:

pdavis.8031:

Because with enough time everyone can get it.

Wrong. And that is the problem i have with it.

How is having quest gated items, that has a 100% “chance” of getting that item at the completion of the quest chain make it so that not everyone get obtain it? If you have a persistant quest line, much like the PS, that everyone can do, then eventually everyone will be able to get that item. Of course they are not required to do that quest, but that doesn’t mean they won’t be able to get it.

Plz read my edit above for ur answer to that question :P Also though, legendaries are available for everyoen to get but not everyone gets lucky OR* wants to put in the dedication to buy the weap even though they may like it. Still, they can get it if they want to. But with rng u may never get it. If they buy it with gems gg for anet and it will only help the game imo. More cash for the them=mroe time put into it for us

OMNIBUS.2913:

pdavis.8031:

Because with enough time everyone can get it.

Wrong. And that is the problem i have with it.

edit: Oops i misread but only egotistocal people think that way. I’m not trying to 1 up others in this game by showing something someone else cant have due to rng and not even skill or dedication.

But with RNG, even account bound RNG, everyone has an equal chance of getting the item. They are not required to do a special quest line, or activity in order to get it. RNG is the great equalizer. It puts everyone on the same playing field.

Also I can see the frustration of account bound items, and not being able to trade them to family or friends, but at the same time that person has the same chance that you do to get those items.

pdavis.8031:

OMNIBUS.2913:

pdavis.8031:

Because with enough time everyone can get it.

Wrong. And that is the problem i have with it.

edit: Oops i misread but only egotistocal people think that way. I’m not trying to 1 up others in this game by showing something someone else cant have due to rng and not even skill or dedication.

But with RNG, even account bound RNG, everyone has an equal chance of getting the item. They are not required to do a special quest line, or activity in order to get it. RNG is the great equalizer. It puts everyone on the same playing field.

Also I can see the frustration of account bound items, and not being able to trade them to family or friends, but at the same time that person has the same chance that you do to get those items.

Yes ofc everyone has the same chances it doesnt change the fact that rng still sucks(its not great, why would you say that) becuase it creates frustration, and imbalanced grinding(some get right away soem never get it). You know, earning something over time or doing a quest is equal for everyone too…and it doesnt create frustration or resentment so lets put that in instead of pure rng.