Guild Wars 2

pdavis.8031:

OMNIBUS.2913:

pdavis.8031:

Because with enough time everyone can get it.

Wrong. And that is the problem i have with it.

edit: Oops i misread but only egotistocal people think that way. I’m not trying to 1 up others in this game by showing something someone else cant have due to rng and not even skill or dedication.

But with RNG, even account bound RNG, everyone has an equal chance of getting the item. They are not required to do a special quest line, or activity in order to get it. RNG is the great equalizer. It puts everyone on the same playing field.

Also I can see the frustration of account bound items, and not being able to trade them to family or friends, but at the same time that person has the same chance that you do to get those items.

“Level Playing Field” Account Bound untradeable RNG = 90% of players dont get the skin they want, 5% get the skin they DON’T want and can’t sell, 5% of players are happy little purring cats.

Of course if this is what the majority of players want, it is what they will get.

And earning over time isnt equal because the time spent isnt equal for every player.

OMNIBUS.2913:

pdavis.8031:

OMNIBUS.2913:

pdavis.8031:

Because with enough time everyone can get it.

Wrong. And that is the problem i have with it.

edit: Oops i misread but only egotistocal people think that way. I’m not trying to 1 up others in this game by showing something someone else cant have due to rng and not even skill or dedication.

But with RNG, even account bound RNG, everyone has an equal chance of getting the item. They are not required to do a special quest line, or activity in order to get it. RNG is the great equalizer. It puts everyone on the same playing field.

Also I can see the frustration of account bound items, and not being able to trade them to family or friends, but at the same time that person has the same chance that you do to get those items.

Yes ofc everyone has the same chances it doesnt change the fact that rng still sucks(its not great, why would you say that) becuase it creates frustration, and imbalanced grinding(some get right away soem never get it). You know, earning something over time or doing a quest is equal for everyone too…and it doesnt create frustration or resentment so lets put that in instead of pure rng.

I never said it was great :P Yes it can be a cause of frustration. But RNG vs. quest based items causes those items to have more value, than just be given the item. If, say Dusk, was locked behind a quest, what would the value, emotional or monetary, be? Just like it’s said that being able to buy a Legendary, or precurser, already lessens the value of them, and makes it feel less than legendary. Yes RNG can be a pain in the kitten, but the reliefe/joy/emotional connection to getting the item is far more than if you just got the item from doing a quest or two. The first is “WOOT!!! I got Dusk!!!! /dance /laugh /cry” and you are literally excited. Elevated heart rate, a big smile on your face, etc. Getting it from a quest is more “Meh…cool…whats next?”

Moreover the frustration comes from impatience and a sense that “I deserve this item, so why am I not getting it?”

Khal Drogo.9631:

And earning over time isnt equal because the time spent isnt equal for every player.

What is not equal about it? Everyone has all the option available to them to earn gold and rng drops(not account bound). But with the added benefit of the tp and 100% guarentee with time.

pdavis.8031:

…

The first is “WOOT!!! I got Dusk!!!! /dance /laugh /cry” and you are literally excited. Elevated heart rate, a big smile on your face, etc. Getting it from a quest is more “Meh…cool…whats next?”
.
..

1) Not going to happen.
2) Cool, one in a million precursor drop. What’s next?

OMNIBUS.2913:

Khal Drogo.9631:

And earning over time isnt equal because the time spent isnt equal for every player.

What is not equal about it? Everyone has all the option available to them to earn gold and rng drops(not account bound). But with the added benefit of the tp and 100% guarentee with time.

Its not equal in that casual players who dont want to spend more RL$ will never get a legendary not even the one in a million chance if some purists got their way. But I am pretty sure everyone is ok with this arrangement, just that it is not “equal”.

OMNIBUS.2913:

People who put in a lot of work on the game can afford the mini polar bear(and its gaurenteed).

It’s still not guaranteed at that point, because it requires someone to be selling it, or at least willing to sell it for the price offered.

OMNIBUS.2913:

Bug weapons and fractal weaps especially r not a symbol that people spent ample time doing the content. Its a symbol of luck, cuz its rng with no progression. And you can get them right away if ur lucky.

Amberite weapons don’t necessarily say you spent a lot of time, only that you participated to some extent in the new map’s content. Do note that I didn’t call out ‘time’ for that one, because yes, you could very well get a bug in the first chest you open.

Fractals on the other hand, you have to be lvl 10 or higher for a chance at the weapon skins. Ok, to some people 40 fractals (minimum to get to tier 1) isn’t a lot of effort to put in, I guess. But sure, you could get a lucky drop at the very start of your lvl 10 set.

OMNIBUS.2913:

You only support that these weaps shoudl be tradeable then cause legendaries are supposed to be the rarest weapons in the game and can be bought like the majority of stuff in this game. So why cant fractal and bug weapons be bought as well?

I am not necessarily against having them tradable (look back, no where did I say ‘no absolutely not’), I am simply pointing out that there are ramifications to doing so. Things that need to be taken into consideration. Example:

On one hand, being account bound makes them unique. On the other it forces people to grind for them.

On one hand their rarity makes them desirable. On the other hand it potentially forces people into content they don’t want to do.

You really could go on and on listing pros and cons.

OMNIBUS.2913:

That “prestigious only me has it” desirability you speak of is just peoples big egos.

I do understand the ‘everything should be tradable’ view. I’ve used the ‘everything was tradable’ in GW1 argument myself. (although just because you could trade it didn’t make it usable). However; conversely, I understand the view of those that desire some means of setting themselves apart too. The ‘special snowflakes’ if you will. Sure, in a lot of instances it might just be ego, but why does that make their desire any less valid than yours? We all desire some level of uniqueness, otherwise we wouldn’t give a rat’s kitten about character creation. We wouldn’t care what armor we wore or what weapons we wielded (skin wise). We wouldn’t care if we all had the exact same avatar.

OMNIBUS.2913:

Its far more grindy to leave it as rng assuming your luck is bad like mine(lets not forget about the chance u may never get the weapon). And yes there shoudl be ways to earn all those things through any other way than just rng. It doesnt remove any wow factor becuase im alrdy upset about the amount of time i’ve wasted. Even if i got it now i would still be smh….

My luck sucks too, believe me, I understand that.

Perhaps making it all tradable is the answer, but like I said, it does have it’s cons. It wouldn’t be overly different than GW1. Then you have your ‘guaranteed’ means of acquisition….so long as someone is selling it.

pdavis.8031:

OMNIBUS.2913:

pdavis.8031:

OMNIBUS.2913:

pdavis.8031:

Because with enough time everyone can get it.

Wrong. And that is the problem i have with it.

edit: Oops i misread but only egotistocal people think that way. I’m not trying to 1 up others in this game by showing something someone else cant have due to rng and not even skill or dedication.

But with RNG, even account bound RNG, everyone has an equal chance of getting the item. They are not required to do a special quest line, or activity in order to get it. RNG is the great equalizer. It puts everyone on the same playing field.

Also I can see the frustration of account bound items, and not being able to trade them to family or friends, but at the same time that person has the same chance that you do to get those items.

Yes ofc everyone has the same chances it doesnt change the fact that rng still sucks(its not great, why would you say that) becuase it creates frustration, and imbalanced grinding(some get right away soem never get it). You know, earning something over time or doing a quest is equal for everyone too…and it doesnt create frustration or resentment so lets put that in instead of pure rng.

I never said it was great :P Yes it can be a cause of frustration. But RNG vs. quest based items causes those items to have more value, than just be given the item. If, say Dusk, was locked behind a quest, what would the value, emotional or monetary, be? Just like it’s said that being able to buy a Legendary, or precurser, already lessens the value of them, and makes it feel less than legendary. Yes RNG can be a pain in the kitten, but the reliefe/joy/emotional connection to getting the item is far more than if you just got the item from doing a quest or two. The first is “WOOT!!! I got Dusk!!!! /dance /laugh /cry” and you are literally excited. Elevated heart rate, a big smile on your face, etc. Getting it from a quest is more “Meh…cool…whats next?”

Moreover the frustration comes from impatience and a sense that “I deserve this item, so why am I not getting it?”

The value of the said item really depends on the quest or time it takes to earn it. It could take a very long time still giving you that achievement factor but at least its 100% guarenteed. And i yea i do feel i deserve it over the person who just entered fractal 20 and got the weap i want vs me who has in the past grinded forever and will liekly never get it. Its like when you have been working a job(turn job into grind in this case) for 10 years and waiting for that promotion then the new guy that just started and has 0 exp gets hired. Yea people gunna be mad, maybe even quit over it.

Khal Drogo.9631:

pdavis.8031:

…

The first is “WOOT!!! I got Dusk!!!! /dance /laugh /cry” and you are literally excited. Elevated heart rate, a big smile on your face, etc. Getting it from a quest is more “Meh…cool…whats next?”
.
..

1) Not going to happen.
2) Cool, one in a million precursor drop. What’s next?

1)Are you saying that you, or anyone, would NOT be genuinely excited about a precurser drop from RNG?
2)If it is 100% guaranteed drop from completing a quest chain, then it is no longer a rare one in a million drop.

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

I do understand the ‘everything should be tradable’ view. I’ve used the ‘everything was tradable’ in GW1 argument myself. (although just because you could trade it didn’t make it usable). However; conversely, I understand the view of those that desire some means of setting themselves apart too. The ‘special snowflakes’ if you will. Sure, in a lot of instances it might just be ego, but why does that make their desire any less valid than yours? We all desire some level of uniqueness, otherwise we wouldn’t give a rat’s kitten about character creation. We wouldn’t care what armor we wore or what weapons we wielded (skin wise). We wouldn’t care if we all had the exact same avatar.

Thats where dying and mix and matching comes in. Not to mention the same skins looks different on different races and scales differently. There are so many Twilights around now – do you think the lack of exclusivity would have put off those players and even more players in the future from making theirs? Hardly the case.

pdavis.8031:

1) Are you saying that you, or anyone, would NOT be genuinely excited about a precurser drop from RNG?

Its hard to get excited about something that is extremely unlikely to happen and has not happened after thousands of hrs of gameplay. Not even during the two Karka event chests or an underwater precursor. If it does happens, personally I would be in a good mood for an hr – then back to not playing GW2 due to lack of good content.

I am not against RNG – only account bound RNG.

OMNIBUS.2913:

You clearly dont know how fractals work.

“weapon skins that have a rare chance of dropping in higher [levels] of Fractals of the Mists”

Dropping….as in…. from mobs…

“can be acquired from the fractals’ Daily Reward Chest when completing a fractal above level 10 or higher”

Fractal weapon skins work the same way as rings or other drops in FotM. All mobs have a chance at dropping the item. It’s right up their with a snowflake’s chance in hell, but hey, it’s still possible.

But sure, I haven’t a clue how fractals work…

OMNIBUS.2913:

And PLease read this PLZ PLZ PLZ. Nightbringer staff can be bought!! Le gasp another way to earn it other than rng! now unless you have something to counter plz stop using that arguement.

Ugh, I was comparing the farming aspect of the acquisition. Which was the topic at that point.

Yes it could be bought. If, and only if, another player was selling it. Just because it could be bought does not make it a guaranteed means of acquisition via that route either, because you can’t buy what isn’t for sale.

Khal Drogo.9631:

Thats where dying and mix and matching comes in. Not to mention the same skins looks different on different races and scales differently. There are so many Twilights around now – do you think the lack of exclusivity would have put off those players and even more players in the future from making theirs? Hardly the case.

And yet it was that lack of exclusivity that had people up in arms over having legendaries in the wardrobe. Have we forgotten that uproar so soon? It didn’t matter that only the people that had the stupid things would have them, having them so readily available, even just as a skin, devalued them.

It’s a lack of exclusivity that has people asking for hard to earn unique armor and weapon skins.

I do agree though that mixing and matching, dye options, and racial choice all has an effect. However for some, its obviously not enough.

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

OMNIBUS.2913:

People who put in a lot of work on the game can afford the mini polar bear(and its gaurenteed).

It’s still not guaranteed at that point, because it requires someone to be selling it, or at least willing to sell it for the price offered.

OMNIBUS.2913:

Bug weapons and fractal weaps especially r not a symbol that people spent ample time doing the content. Its a symbol of luck, cuz its rng with no progression. And you can get them right away if ur lucky.

Amberite weapons don’t necessarily say you spent a lot of time, only that you participated to some extent in the new map’s content. Do note that I didn’t call out ‘time’ for that one, because yes, you could very well get a bug in the first chest you open.

Fractals on the other hand, you have to be lvl 10 or higher for a chance at the weapon skins. Ok, to some people 40 fractals (minimum to get to tier 1) isn’t a lot of effort to put in, I guess. But sure, you could get a lucky drop at the very start of your lvl 10 set.

OMNIBUS.2913:

You only support that these weaps shoudl be tradeable then cause legendaries are supposed to be the rarest weapons in the game and can be bought like the majority of stuff in this game. So why cant fractal and bug weapons be bought as well?

I am not necessarily against having them tradable (look back, no where did I say ‘no absolutely not’), I am simply pointing out that there are ramifications to doing so. Things that need to be taken into consideration. Example:

On one hand, being account bound makes them unique. On the other it forces people to grind for them.

On one hand their rarity makes them desirable. On the other hand it potentially forces people into content they don’t want to do.

You really could go on and on listing pros and cons.

OMNIBUS.2913:

That “prestigious only me has it” desirability you speak of is just peoples big egos.

I do understand the ‘everything should be tradable’ view. I’ve used the ‘everything was tradable’ in GW1 argument myself. (although just because you could trade it didn’t make it usable). However; conversely, I understand the view of those that desire some means of setting themselves apart too. The ‘special snowflakes’ if you will. Sure, in a lot of instances it might just be ego, but why does that make their desire any less valid than yours? We all desire some level of uniqueness, otherwise we wouldn’t give a rat’s kitten about character creation. We wouldn’t care what armor we wore or what weapons we wielded (skin wise). We wouldn’t care if we all had the exact same avatar.

OMNIBUS.2913:

Its far more grindy to leave it as rng assuming your luck is bad like mine(lets not forget about the chance u may never get the weapon). And yes there shoudl be ways to earn all those things through any other way than just rng. It doesnt remove any wow factor becuase im alrdy upset about the amount of time i’ve wasted. Even if i got it now i would still be smh….

My luck sucks too, believe me, I understand that.

Perhaps making it all tradable is the answer, but like I said, it does have it’s cons. It wouldn’t be overly different than GW1. Then you have your ‘guaranteed’ means of acquisition….so long as someone is selling it.

well im glad we can agree on some things. Or at least ur optimistic. IMO there is enough customization in this game that you can be unique without having “me only weaps”

Khal Drogo.9631:

OMNIBUS.2913:

Khal Drogo.9631:

And earning over time isnt equal because the time spent isnt equal for every player.

What is not equal about it? Everyone has all the option available to them to earn gold and rng drops(not account bound). But with the added benefit of the tp and 100% guarentee with time.

Its not equal in that casual players who dont want to spend more RL$ will never get a legendary not even the one in a million chance if some purists got their way. But I am pretty sure everyone is ok with this arrangement, just that it is not “equal”.

Well if they want it then they should earn it like everyone else does(RL money is earning it too unless they got an inheritance form their mommy XD). Just becuase they choose to not play as much as we do doesnt mean its not equal. They still have a guarenteed way to get it if they choose to do so unlike rng account bound.

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

OMNIBUS.2913:

You clearly dont know how fractals work.

“weapon skins that have a rare chance of dropping in higher [levels] of Fractals of the Mists”

Dropping….as in…. from mobs…

“can be acquired from the fractals’ Daily Reward Chest when completing a fractal above level 10 or higher”

Fractal weapon skins work the same way as rings or other drops in FotM. All mobs have a chance at dropping the item. It’s right up their with a snowflake’s chance in hell, but hey, it’s still possible.

But sure, I haven’t a clue how fractals work…

I’m srry to be blunt, just how i am but u dont in this case. fractal weapons dont drop from mobs. I’ve run fractals enough to knwo this. Show me evidence proving me otherwise cuz ive never seen or heard of it happening.

OMNIBUS.2913:

I’m srry to be blunt, just how i am but u dont in this case. fractal weapons dont drop from mobs. I’ve run fractals enough to knwo this. Show me evidence proving me otherwise cuz ive never seen or heard of it happening.

People once said that the ascended weapons didn’t drop from mobs either, even though Anet told us they did, cause they never saw it happen.

You’re correct, I haven’t run hundreds of fractals. I don’t have first hand experience with having one of the skins drop for me. I have the wiki (which, admittedly could be wrong) and chatter in LA when I’ve asked about them. So I haven’t “seen it” either, but I’ve “heard of it” because I’ve asked.

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

OMNIBUS.2913:

I’m srry to be blunt, just how i am but u dont in this case. fractal weapons dont drop from mobs. I’ve run fractals enough to knwo this. Show me evidence proving me otherwise cuz ive never seen or heard of it happening.

People once said that the ascended weapons didn’t drop from mobs either, even though Anet told us they did, cause they never saw it happen.

You’re correct, I haven’t run hundreds of fractals. I don’t have first hand experience with having one of the skins drop for me. I have the wiki (which, admittedly could be wrong) and chatter in LA when I’ve asked about them. So I haven’t “seen it” either, but I’ve “heard of it” because I’ve asked.

Well ask an experienced 40+fractal runner if they have ever seen a fractal weap drop from mobs. I’m quite literally 99.9% sure they will tell u no :P

Khal Drogo.9631:

Most players just give up after a month of fract dailies, much less years and not seeing that coveted skin that you wanted or tonic because fracts can take a long time.

Yet fractal weapon skins are the primary reward mechanism keeping fractals regulars going. There’s a lot of data on this. Making fractals weapons skins easy to acquire would do terrible things to the popularity of high end fractals.

Ensign.2189:

Khal Drogo.9631:

Most players just give up after a month of fract dailies, much less years and not seeing that coveted skin that you wanted or tonic because fracts can take a long time.

Yet fractal weapon skins are the primary reward mechanism keeping fractals regulars going. There’s a lot of data on this. Making fractals weapons skins easy to acquire would do terrible things to the popularity of high end fractals.

What data? No one asked for them to be ez to acquire. And from my pov fractals is tanked likely becuz of the bad rewards. Everytime i cheked 40+ there is no groups. Majority of the time i had to form the group and wait at anywhere from 15mins to 30+ mins to get a full group. Admittedly i havent chekd for about a month.

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

OMNIBUS.2913:

I’m srry to be blunt, just how i am but u dont in this case. fractal weapons dont drop from mobs. I’ve run fractals enough to knwo this. Show me evidence proving me otherwise cuz ive never seen or heard of it happening.

People once said that the ascended weapons didn’t drop from mobs either, even though Anet told us they did, cause they never saw it happen.

Well, ascended weapons do not drop from mobs. Not directly anyway. And to my knowledge, Anet never said they did.

Ensign.2189:

Khal Drogo.9631:

Most players just give up after a month of fract dailies, much less years and not seeing that coveted skin that you wanted or tonic because fracts can take a long time.

Yet fractal weapon skins are the primary reward mechanism keeping fractals regulars going. There’s a lot of data on this. Making fractals weapons skins easy to acquire would do terrible things to the popularity of high end fractals.

no one is asking for an easy way to acquire them… they asking for ANYTHING besides 100% luck based. its the dumbest freaking system you could possible have for the best rewards. To be tied behind 100% luck.

Those who put the time and effort should be rewarded. But of course this logic would cause all the casual carebears to cry about how they can’t put in the time to get such rewards

Anet removes RNG, makes everything skill based*
Players: its too hard! This is unfair! I don’t have time to spend doing this over and over!
Anet reduces difficulty*
Players: I’m bored! There’s nothing to do! Why don’t they make more content every week instead of two?

No one is asking for RNG to be removed, people are asking for alternatives that are not RNG based. I want to know that after killing a boss X number of times I will get the item i want if not sooner with a lucky RNG drop. Or I want to be able to buy the item if I am never lucky. I’ve given up on multiple skins because luck was not in my favor. And it isn’t a skill or time gate, but solely a LUCK gate. And that is bad game design because you as a player can not overcome it. You can’t fix bad luck, not even MF can help you because MF doesn’t effect most of the chest that gives these items.
But unfortunately, this thread will be derailed about discussions about precursors which currently are not a RNG only item like mentioned offending items.
I would like a Dev post about the philosophy of having RNG only BOA items in this game. At then I would know why they exist in their mind. Right now I can only assume it is a artificial game lengthening mechanic.

OMNIBUS.2913:

Khal Drogo.9631:

OMNIBUS.2913:

Khal Drogo.9631:

And earning over time isnt equal because the time spent isnt equal for every player.

What is not equal about it? Everyone has all the option available to them to earn gold and rng drops(not account bound). But with the added benefit of the tp and 100% guarentee with time.

Its not equal in that casual players who dont want to spend more RL$ will never get a legendary not even the one in a million chance if some purists got their way. But I am pretty sure everyone is ok with this arrangement, just that it is not “equal”.

Well if they want it then they should earn it like everyone else does(RL money is earning it too unless they got an inheritance form their mommy XD). Just becuase they choose to not play as much as we do doesnt mean its not equal. They still have a guarenteed way to get it if they choose to do so unlike rng account bound.

Which is the same as burger flippers earning a Masarati through hrs of their labor vs say a Youtuber screaming his way to millions? I mean both are earning RL$ right and not inherited; just that one earns exponentially more than another to the point of several dozen lifetimes worth of labor. Is this equal? I mean neither are really particularly high skilled jobs.

The burger flipper will never have a chance to own a Masarati if not for lotteries no matter how many hours he or she put in. But go ahead take away that one in a million shot. I am sure Mr Omnibus as principled as he is in video games would donate the bulk of any windfall to charity in real life.

Shadowmoon.7986:

No one is asking for RNG to be removed, people are asking for alternatives that are not RNG based.

…

Some people are asking for RNG to be removed because it offends their political sensibilities.

Khal Drogo.9631:

Which is the same as burger flippers earning a Masarati through hrs of their labor vs say a Youtuber screaming his way to millions? I mean both are earning RL$ right and not inherited; just that one earns exponentially more than another to the point of several dozen lifetimes worth of labor. Is this equal? I mean neither are really particularly high skilled jobs.

The burger flipper will never have a chance to own a Masarati if not for lotteries no matter how many hours he or she put in. But go ahead take away that one in a million shot. I am sure Mr Omnibus as principled as he is in video games would donate the bulk of any windfall to charity in real life.

The burger flipper chose to be a burger flipper though. Your acting like it was his destiny to flip burgers. Maybe in 3rd world countries this makes sense. But people who can play gw2 can do better for themself if they try. And I’m not argueing about anything but pure rng. What your example is referring to is regular rng. Anyone in real life can get lucky but they can also use reliability to succeed :p

If you add a non-RNG way for a reward, it becomes farmable. ANet doesn’t want “special” items to be farmable.

Behellagh.1468:

If you add a non-RNG way for a reward, it becomes farmable. ANet doesn’t want “special” items to be farmable.

RNG, lack of farming, time gating, all of this is to allow the game to run at it leanest. The more they can bait and control in the end the less development they actually have to do, the less content they have to make and thus the leaner they can run. I’ve said it countless times, monetization became a priority over all else the moment NCSoft came on board, everything else is a distant second.

There are those who work at Anet that I’m sure are also unhappy with this direction (visit www.glassdoor.com/) and are powerless to change it, I don’t blame them I blame upper management who have lost sight of everything but the dollar.

Regardless of what anyone posts anywhere about anything the changes won’t come until they find it absolutely necessary to do so and that will only be when their success is threatened; same thing has happened with every MMO including Wow.

And I’ve said it countless times, NCSoft owned ArenaNet years before Guild Wars came out, not Guild Wars 2, the original Guild Wars. So sorry if that negates your argument about NCSoft’s involvement with ArenaNet.

Behellagh.1468:

If you add a non-RNG way for a reward, it becomes farmable. ANet doesn’t want “special” items to be farmable.

Farmable doesn’t matter if the items are account bound, though.
If ANet wanted to do this properly, they’d answer one very simple question:

1. Do we want this item tradeable?
Yes – RNG, not account-bound, for sale on Trading Post
No – Account-bound, purchasable with tokens or guaranteed through skill rewards.

Honestly, that’s it. The ‘no’ portion can be resolved in various ways: crafting, tokens, other currency (gold, skill points, karma, etc), task-based, Personal/Living Story, and then controlled with how much/often they want the player to get the thing.

OMNIBUS.2913:

Khal Drogo.9631:

Which is the same as burger flippers earning a Masarati through hrs of their labor vs say a Youtuber screaming his way to millions? I mean both are earning RL$ right and not inherited; just that one earns exponentially more than another to the point of several dozen lifetimes worth of labor. Is this equal? I mean neither are really particularly high skilled jobs.

The burger flipper will never have a chance to own a Masarati if not for lotteries no matter how many hours he or she put in. But go ahead take away that one in a million shot. I am sure Mr Omnibus as principled as he is in video games would donate the bulk of any windfall to charity in real life.

The burger flipper chose to be a burger flipper though. Your acting like it was his destiny to flip burgers. Maybe in 3rd world countries this makes sense. But people who can play gw2 can do better for themself if they try. And I’m not argueing about anything but pure rng. What your example is referring to is regular rng. Anyone in real life can get lucky but they can also use reliability to succeed :p

Yup better to be a millionaire Youtuber right? Pretty sure there are many burger flippers in “First World” nations as well who didnt choose to be burger flippers.

So RNG is ok? thanks.

Khal Drogo.9631:

OMNIBUS.2913:

Khal Drogo.9631:

Which is the same as burger flippers earning a Masarati through hrs of their labor vs say a Youtuber screaming his way to millions? I mean both are earning RL$ right and not inherited; just that one earns exponentially more than another to the point of several dozen lifetimes worth of labor. Is this equal? I mean neither are really particularly high skilled jobs.

The burger flipper will never have a chance to own a Masarati if not for lotteries no matter how many hours he or she put in. But go ahead take away that one in a million shot. I am sure Mr Omnibus as principled as he is in video games would donate the bulk of any windfall to charity in real life.

The burger flipper chose to be a burger flipper though. Your acting like it was his destiny to flip burgers. Maybe in 3rd world countries this makes sense. But people who can play gw2 can do better for themself if they try. And I’m not argueing about anything but pure rng. What your example is referring to is regular rng. Anyone in real life can get lucky but they can also use reliability to succeed :p

Yup better to be a millionaire Youtuber right? Pretty sure there are many burger flippers in “First World” nations as well who didnt choose to be burger flippers.

So RNG is ok? thanks.

I don’t think you are doing anything but digging yourself into a hole with these analogies.

I just checked TP. The Ley Line weapons are now down to 70g. That’s nice. You can get a weapon in a few days by just playing the game, doing the events, selling your rares and exotics.

I don’t have to think the black lion weapons are enticing, but most rational people should be able to realize with the upkeep costs they have, and the amount of staff they have, they simply need to make it lucrative for people to attain these cosmetics in a way that makes them profit.

Sad Swordfish.9743:

I don’t think you are doing anything but digging yourself into a hole with these analogies.

I just checked TP. The Ley Line weapons are now down to 70g. That’s nice. You can get a weapon in a few days by just playing the game, doing the events, selling your rares and exotics.

I don’t have to think the black lion weapons are enticing, but most rational people should be able to realize with the upkeep costs they have, and the amount of staff they have, they simply need to make it lucrative for people to attain these cosmetics in a way that makes them profit.

Care to explain why I am “digging myself into a hole”? If you followed the thread the whole way through, OMNIBUS is not just unhappy that RNG obtained items are account bound and untradeable, but that rare skin acquisition is obtainable by RNG itself and hence “unfair”.

Say the endless Fract Tonic becomes tradeable and costs 1000G, I am pretty sure some ppl will be up in arms about the “unfairness” of RNG obtained tonics.

Which reminds me of the BL key brouhaha a year back wrt Fused skins. One skin is 400+G now or 7 tickets – if you want one it is going to be quite a grind or $40 worth of gems converted. Then you have another bunch of gamers angry about “Pay to win” and “promoting gambling” to children (one of the arguments used in this thread). “First world” problems indeed.

Khal Drogo.9631:

Care to explain why I am “digging myself into a hole”? If you followed the thread the whole way through, OMNIBUS is not just unhappy that RNG obtained items are account bound and untradeable, but that rare skin acquisition is obtainable by RNG itself and hence “unfair”.

Say the endless Fract Tonic becomes tradeable and costs 1000G, I am pretty sure some ppl will be up in arms about the “unfairness” of RNG obtained tonics.

Which reminds me of the BL key brouhaha a year back wrt Fused skins. One skin is 400+G now or 7 tickets – if you want one it is going to be quite a grind or $40 worth of gems converted. Then you have another bunch of gamers angry about “Pay to win” and “promoting gambling” to children (one of the arguments used in this thread). “First world” problems indeed.

Honestly, this entire argument can be summed up with a single sentence -

“You can please some of the people some of the time, all of the people some of the time, some of the people all of the time, but you can never please all of the people all of the time.”
-Abraham Lincoln

It’s really just that simple. No matter what they do, someone will always be unhappy with it.

Khal Drogo.9631:

Sad Swordfish.9743:

I don’t think you are doing anything but digging yourself into a hole with these analogies.

I just checked TP. The Ley Line weapons are now down to 70g. That’s nice. You can get a weapon in a few days by just playing the game, doing the events, selling your rares and exotics.

I don’t have to think the black lion weapons are enticing, but most rational people should be able to realize with the upkeep costs they have, and the amount of staff they have, they simply need to make it lucrative for people to attain these cosmetics in a way that makes them profit.

Care to explain why I am “digging myself into a hole”? If you followed the thread the whole way through, OMNIBUS is not just unhappy that RNG obtained items are account bound and untradeable, but that rare skin acquisition is obtainable by RNG itself and hence “unfair”.

Say the endless Fract Tonic becomes tradeable and costs 1000G, I am pretty sure some ppl will be up in arms about the “unfairness” of RNG obtained tonics.

Which reminds me of the BL key brouhaha a year back wrt Fused skins. One skin is 400+G now or 7 tickets – if you want one it is going to be quite a grind or $40 worth of gems converted. Then you have another bunch of gamers angry about “Pay to win” and “promoting gambling” to children (one of the arguments used in this thread). “First world” problems indeed.

Your right i dislike rng account bound. I’ve stated reasons plenty of times. But skin acquisition obtained by rng adn not account bound itself is unfair? where did this come from? Its the combo of account boudn and rng. If it was like you say then i would also hate precursor rng but i dont. Becuase I have an alternative way to get them, the TP. I did offer an alternative than the tp. Make it like a token system over time if they want them to stay account bound.

a gamble is fun for a while, insurance is fun at all times.
that’s the problem with RNG, it’s nothing more then a gamble and not everyone is keen on gambling their money away.
i rather get it directly in a fair, non-player influenced way.

Khal Drogo.9631:

OMNIBUS.2913:

Khal Drogo.9631:

Which is the same as burger flippers earning a Masarati through hrs of their labor vs say a Youtuber screaming his way to millions? I mean both are earning RL$ right and not inherited; just that one earns exponentially more than another to the point of several dozen lifetimes worth of labor. Is this equal? I mean neither are really particularly high skilled jobs.

The burger flipper will never have a chance to own a Masarati if not for lotteries no matter how many hours he or she put in. But go ahead take away that one in a million shot. I am sure Mr Omnibus as principled as he is in video games would donate the bulk of any windfall to charity in real life.

The burger flipper chose to be a burger flipper though. Your acting like it was his destiny to flip burgers. Maybe in 3rd world countries this makes sense. But people who can play gw2 can do better for themself if they try. And I’m not argueing about anything but pure rng. What your example is referring to is regular rng. Anyone in real life can get lucky but they can also use reliability to succeed :p

Yup better to be a millionaire Youtuber right? Pretty sure there are many burger flippers in “First World” nations as well who didnt choose to be burger flippers.

So RNG is ok? thanks.

“But people who can play gw2 can do better for themself if they try.” I think u missed that part. Obviously burger flipping isnt their ideal life but they can make it better if they choose to. Yup regular rng is fine just account bound rng sucks. Idk where the confusion lies…

Behellagh.1468:

If you add a non-RNG way for a reward, it becomes farmable. ANet doesn’t want “special” items to be farmable.

So doing wurm and teq everyday is not farming? Doing daily fractal everyday is not farming?
Do people even think before they type.

“Gentt now trades Sandy Bags of Gear for Unidentified Fossilized Insects.”

It almost seems like someone was listening? o_O

I’m really starting to think Arena.net does this intentionally.

In those first couple weeks, the drop/acquisition rates of new items are absurdly low, and inevitably are increased at some point later. And they do it pretty much every single time.

Rauderi.8706:

“Gentt now trades Sandy Bags of Gear for Unidentified Fossilized Insects.”

It almost seems like someone was listening? o_O

They seem to thrive on seeking out bad publicity lol! I mean really if you know this is coming and people have been complaining why not come and defuse the situation instead of fostering all the resentment. they are by far their own worst enemy.

Agreed, Vlad. :\
It’s like they don’t quite think things through enough and try to fix with a patch, assuming they remember there’s a problem at all.

Rauderi.8706:

“Gentt now trades Sandy Bags of Gear for Unidentified Fossilized Insects.”

It almost seems like someone was listening? o_O

You guys do realize this is the EXACT opposite of another way to GET a bug, right? RE-READ the update notes.

(Gentt will give you 3 Sandy Gear Bags for 1 Fossil Bug, not the other way around).

Shadowmoon.7986:

At launch we did not have this issue. Everything was BoE or was SB through tokens you got for doing a particular dungeon or karma. Then the Betrayal patch happened….

Ironic, no?

KarateKid.5648:

Shadowmoon.7986:

At launch we did not have this issue. Everything was BoE or was SB through tokens you got for doing a particular dungeon or karma. Then the Betrayal patch happened….

Ironic, no?

I think the phrase is “bait-and-switch”. Pretty common in the game industry.

Brother Grimm.5176:

You guys do realize this is the EXACT opposite of another way to GET a bug, right? RE-READ the update notes.

(Gentt will give you 3 Sandy Gear Bags for 1 Fossil Bug, not the other way around).

Ah. Oops. I suppose I was letting “hopeful good-game design” brain translate that into a good thing, instead of “sigh, ANet doesn’t know WTK they’re doing” brain get to it first.

You know what Blizzard did with Loot 2.0 in Diablo 3?
They implemented a timer whereby if you haven’t had a Legendary item drop in 45 minutes, the next drop you get will be one. Sure, it may not be exactly what your current character wants, but it’s something, and you will definitely be able to use it either on a companion, another character or as raw materials for crafting.
And they also killed their gemstore equivalent, the real-money auction house.

They don’t seem to be having problems with player retention.

on the rewards that are tradable and super rare (precursors) people complain that they are too expensive

on the rewards that are untradable and rare people complain that they cant buy them (forgetting that if they were tradable they would probably be too expensive for your tiny purses anyways)

the moral here children is that people who are lazy and just want the item NOW will always complain until they get it

I have never understood the mindset of some players that demand “exclusive” things… be it higher stats or unique looks. Why should you care if someone else “opened up their wallet” for an item skin you spent hours getting?

But at the same time, I also know that those people are the ones that fuel the item situation GW2 is in now. They want to flex their kitten over the “casuals”, and say, “You can’t have what I have. Bow down and respect me, peon.”

I made a post yesterday on this matter as a potential change to the current RNG system:

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/An-Addendum-to-the-Current-RNG-System/first#post4253953

I’m curious what some of you would think of adjusting to a system in such a manner.

Sytherek.7689:

I have been a developer on AAA titles and specifically, MMOs. This article is less about criticizing ANet and more about them making the game more fun.

RNG is bad for MMOs. Here’s why:

1) RNG as implemented fosters player rancor.
I post that I haven’t found an item after opening 100 chest, someone else post they found it in the 2nd chest and they don’t see a problem.

2) RNG as implemented isn’t fair.
Nope, life ain’t fair. GW2 is not life, it is a game. It is entertainment. Frustration is not fun.

3) RNG as implemented isn’t fun.
Putting a desirable item behind RNG is a recipe for making people frustrated. Something that always drops is meaningless; something that never drops causes frustration. A balance must be struck.

4) RNG as implemented is illogical.
People who want the item do not get it. People who don’t want the item do. Since items cannot be sold in the trading post, this again creates frustration.

GW2 would be a better game and more fun if:

1) Allow rare drops to be sold. Remove account binding.

2) Improve the chance of a rare item drop the more a person tries to get it. I suspect ANet will say they can’t do this due to “technical limitations”.

3) Sell rare drops in the trading post for gems. People with money can buy the drop; people who have oodles of time/will can hunt for it. Please don’t hypocritically say rare things should be special, and then let people buy/sell “legendaries”.
RNG is fun and entertaining.

Excessive RNG is bad and frustrates players. Frustrated players don’t recommend the game and don’t spend money in the store.

All I can say is that A-Net has lost me and many others as customers in large part due to this issue. At time of my leaving the game I had somewhere in range of 800k to 1.5 mil combined PvE and WvW kills. While it is impossible to track down the numbers of lootbags from those kills, and even more so boss/champ bags due to lack of tools to do so, it is a very, very large number. Not a single precursor. 3 ascended weapons out of which 2 were useless, maybe 5-6 fractal skins, 2 of which I could actually use, etc.

Overall, between WvW staleness, problems and the RNG is what ultimately has caused me to give up on GW2. And I am not the only one. There are entire guilds of players ranging in 20-30 to hundreds of players that have left the game for same reasons as I have. I know, I was in 3 of them. And then they chime in how the living story brings people back, 2 here, 3 there, add some zeros behind those numbers and then start talking.

GG A-Net.

I just wish the community would focus in on this issue. Not whine about how they haven’t gotten a precursor drop, which is not an issue here. I just want a means of if I do X amount of a task, I will get the drop I want. You can make X whatever. For example, if kill tequatle for 100 days, I will get a horde. This can be easily done with an account bound token which once you have 100 of them you can double click it and have a horde.
Currently it is set up for the encounter, kill it, and then 99% of the time be disappointed. Hell I’d even trade the 3 crap rares i get for this token system. Same for wurm. Remove the crappy greens, make so you either get the drop or get a token.
This is basically what Anet did with the BLC weapons, remember they were account bound and RNG token drops. Now they give out scraps because bottom line was that people stop buying keys. Because the other account bound weapons are not tied to $$$, they are not going to be fixed.

Morsus.5106:

Each time you put in 4 rares/exotics into the Mystic Forge your chance at a precursor doubles. When you get a precursor it resets. Problem solved.

+1