Guild Wars 2

I mean, back in the days when it costed to repair the armor I could see the purpose of it being a gold sink to hold currency inflation. But now that is free of charge, I just fail to see the point of it.

Its just an annoyance players have to deal from time to time. Like, every few days, after dying a few times, you gotta remember to stop by the repair and fix your armor.

So why not just remove it? Or am I missing something?

Well yeah. They just did the quick fix and modded the cost to zero instead spending days upon days, months upon months, removing the system entirely. As a guy who knows code, that is the easy way out honestly.

It not like defeat should be an inconvenience or anything, right?

Well if you don’t go repair you’ll be naked eventually and that makes things a little more difficult. Still makes a difference.

Aye. Since the systems are just there, and the price is free, it makes sense to do it. Unless you like running around in your skivvies. You would get squished very easily by a champion.

Takes me back to the days where Rangers where running around in queensdale with their grizzly bears in nothing but a yellow bikini. The old bot days. Before the great bot hunt in gw2.

During the great bot hunt, the bots migrated to Brisban Wildlands for refuge, and to continue hunting. Back then no one really went there.

Bran.7425:

It not like defeat should be an inconvenience or anything, right?

But the thing is this is an inconvenience that rarely affect actual gameplay. I mean, its really rare to see someone die so many times in a row (so that his equipments would start to break instead of being damaged) before he could reach or pass by an armor repair. Unlike, lets say, GW1 death penalty, which really had a major impact on the party perfomance.

caiomacos.1694:

Bran.7425:

It not like defeat should be an inconvenience or anything, right?

But the thing is this is an inconvenience that rarely affect actual gameplay. I mean, its really rare to see someone die so many times in a row (so that his equipments would start to break instead of being damaged) before he could reach or pass by an armor repair. Unlike, lets say, GW1 death penalty, which really had a major impact on the party perfomance.

it works in high level fractals where you can die a lot in a row if unlucky.

I think what he wants tho is a total removal of the system. That your armor doesn’t break down anymore. That is going to take a lot of time and coding. Like a lot a lot. Maybe they could add it in a quality of life patch or the heart of thorns?

pandorasbox.6340:

I think what he wants tho is a total removal of the system. That your armor doesn’t break down anymore.

Yeah. The way I see it, this system only make players waste time going to an armor repair every now and then, without actually providing a meaningful “death penalty”.

NTDK.4897:

caiomacos.1694:

Bran.7425:

It not like defeat should be an inconvenience or anything, right?

But the thing is this is an inconvenience that rarely affect actual gameplay. I mean, its really rare to see someone die so many times in a row (so that his equipments would start to break instead of being damaged) before he could reach or pass by an armor repair. Unlike, lets say, GW1 death penalty, which really had a major impact on the party perfomance.

it works in high level fractals where you can die a lot in a row if unlucky.

It’s a non-issue in fractals as you could just log out to character select, log in, repair, and then re-enter the fractal instance.

It’s pointless at the moment. Better to, say, reduce your total stats by 5% for 5 minutes for every death you take. Add a new condition called ‘traumatised’ for that which has a stack limit of 10. Problem solved.

It’d actually mean something for WvW too, since a zerg repeatedly spam-ressing their players will now lose viability if they were killed more than once every 5 minutes, allowing an incompetent zerg to eventually wipe at the hands of smaller numbers of far more skilled players.

Y’all should remember that a death penalty of any type goes against what ANet has said they want for this game.

“Death penalties make death in-game a more tense experience. It just isn’t fun. We want to get you back into the action (fun) as quickly as possible. Defeat is the penalty; we don’t have to penalize you a second time.”
http://gw2101.gtm.guildwars2.com/en/the-game/combat/healing-death/

Just a flesh wound.3589:

Y’all should remember that a death penalty of any type goes against what ANet has said they want for this game.

“Death penalties make death in-game a more tense experience. It just isn’t fun. We want to get you back into the action (fun) as quickly as possible. Defeat is the penalty; we don’t have to penalize you a second time.”
http://gw2101.gtm.guildwars2.com/en/the-game/combat/healing-death/

That argument doesn’t work anymore what they said back when “insert said quote/s here”

Anet will just say desing changes in the dierection of how they want the game to go

To annoy players for dying?

Unless you go down more than half a dozen times, there is no real penalty for dying.

This argument will go on and on between hardcore RPG fans (that want some consequences for not playing “well”…or playing at all (AFKers) ) and the Casual players that complain about “stresses” of dying if there were penalties. Anet has obviously sided with the casual crowd, but has failed to remove the last vestiges of the only real penalty for death that has already been removed (repair costs).

Good or bad is another argument.

I suggest some gawking visual tell if your armor is broken (a scarlet letter of FAIL if you will). I doubt shame will work on AFK event farmers any better…..

I believe the official response was along the lines of this (obviously paraphrased):

“We’re removing the cost of having to repair your armour as we believe that having to find and interact with an armour repair station is payment enough”.

They want to still “punish” you as a player for dying so many times in a row, just not with gold.

Crimson Clouds.4853:

I believe the official response was along the lines of this (obviously paraphrased):

“We’re removing the cost of having to repair your armour as we believe that having to find and interact with an armour repair station is payment enough”.

They want to still “punish” you as a player for dying so many times in a row, just not with gold.

This right here

JediYoda.1275:

Just a flesh wound.3589:

Y’all should remember that a death penalty of any type goes against what ANet has said they want for this game.

“Death penalties make death in-game a more tense experience. It just isn’t fun. We want to get you back into the action (fun) as quickly as possible. Defeat is the penalty; we don’t have to penalize you a second time.”
http://gw2101.gtm.guildwars2.com/en/the-game/combat/healing-death/

That argument doesn’t work anymore what they said back when “insert said quote/s here”

Anet will just say desing changes in the dierection of how they want the game to go

Considering that they removed the cost of armor repairs to make death even less punishing, I would say that quote is still very relevant and shows they have no interest in putting in a death penalty.

If they agreed with you, they would have added a small death penalty of some sort when they removed the cost of repairing armor.

Hayashi.3416:

NTDK.4897:

caiomacos.1694:

Bran.7425:

It not like defeat should be an inconvenience or anything, right?

But the thing is this is an inconvenience that rarely affect actual gameplay. I mean, its really rare to see someone die so many times in a row (so that his equipments would start to break instead of being damaged) before he could reach or pass by an armor repair. Unlike, lets say, GW1 death penalty, which really had a major impact on the party perfomance.

it works in high level fractals where you can die a lot in a row if unlucky.

It’s a non-issue in fractals as you could just log out to character select, log in, repair, and then re-enter the fractal instance.

This is clearly not the intended way of playing.

Pixelpumpkin.4608:

Hayashi.3416:

NTDK.4897:

caiomacos.1694:

Bran.7425:

It not like defeat should be an inconvenience or anything, right?

But the thing is this is an inconvenience that rarely affect actual gameplay. I mean, its really rare to see someone die so many times in a row (so that his equipments would start to break instead of being damaged) before he could reach or pass by an armor repair. Unlike, lets say, GW1 death penalty, which really had a major impact on the party perfomance.

it works in high level fractals where you can die a lot in a row if unlucky.

It’s a non-issue in fractals as you could just log out to character select, log in, repair, and then re-enter the fractal instance.

This is clearly not the intended way of playing.

I hold my tongue every time someone does that in fractals. It’s an annoyance and punishes not only the player who died enough to need repairs, but the whole group has to wait.

The real reason is repair canisters

Anet will say armor repairs are still an incentive to not die. But they’re wrong.

When you die and get armor broken at an inopportune moment, your reaction is to curse yourself for forgetting to repair armor when you last walked by the repairer.

So the only behavior this mechanic actually promotes now is for players to talk to armor repairers whenever they see one. So it’s a totally worthless mechanic.

Just a flesh wound.3589:

JediYoda.1275:

Just a flesh wound.3589:

Y’all should remember that a death penalty of any type goes against what ANet has said they want for this game.

“Death penalties make death in-game a more tense experience. It just isn’t fun. We want to get you back into the action (fun) as quickly as possible. Defeat is the penalty; we don’t have to penalize you a second time.”
http://gw2101.gtm.guildwars2.com/en/the-game/combat/healing-death/

That argument doesn’t work anymore what they said back when “insert said quote/s here”

Anet will just say desing changes in the dierection of how they want the game to go

Considering that they removed the cost of armor repairs to make death even less punishing, I would say that quote is still very relevant and shows they have no interest in putting in a death penalty.

If they agreed with you, they would have added a small death penalty of some sort when they removed the cost of repairing armor.

Time is is the penalty to go to repair npc, they removed the cost so we woudn’t be punhised 2 times for a death.

I think you are missing the my point, before the game was released Anet said the game will have have all the mini games, account wide dyes and several other things. Come release day this was not the case at all. Anet’s answer was things changed during the game desing before release. Some time after release dyes went to acccount wide becuase yet antoher desing change, same with armor repairs.

So my point is that it’s hard to hold Anet to many many thigs they have said in the past when they have changed their mind so many times!! They always “say things changed in game desing”

If they added that armor will repair over time instead than having to go npc, guess what players will still cry about it and probaly want the way it is now back.

caiomacos.1694:

I mean, back in the days when it costed to repair the armor I could see the purpose of it being a gold sink to hold currency inflation. But now that is free of charge, I just fail to see the point of it.

Its just an annoyance players have to deal from time to time. Like, every few days, after dying a few times, you gotta remember to stop by the repair and fix your armor.

So why not just remove it? Or am I missing something?

So death has a penalty, the inconvenience of getting your armor repaired. Otherwise you can die 50 times in on dungeon or boss train and never need to learn to get better.

Armor breaking and needing to fix it is a time out until you learn to play better.

Behellagh.1468:

So death has a penalty, the inconvenience of getting your armor repaired.

Yes

It is pretty worthless now. I no longer keep track of my armor damage as I use the repair guys as additional merchants to sell my stuff as they are often near a city waypoint. If they ask if I need a repair I do it then, and then sell my stuff.

I have repair canisters piling up now as I rarely use them.

Game design =/= game philosophy Jedi…

Tman.6349:

Game design =/= game philosophy Jedi…

so and your post means nothing to me

uhohhotdog.3598:

Well if you don’t go repair you’ll be naked eventually and that makes things a little more difficult. Still makes a difference.

Last I checked broken armor no longer appears as missing in game. Is that fixed or working as intended?

Crimson Clouds.4853:

I believe the official response was along the lines of this (obviously paraphrased):

“We’re removing the cost of having to repair your armour as we believe that having to find and interact with an armour repair station is payment enough”.

They want to still “punish” you as a player for dying so many times in a row, just not with gold.

Which is in all honesty one of the worst possible excuses you can have. They talk about not “restricting fun” but leave in redundant and meaningless steps that neither gain the player anything or really penalizes them, it exists just to be an annoyance. For a game that isn’t based around risk vs reward, or penalties, having a pointless mechanic just to annoy the player is a horrible idea.

To allow the beaten till nude feature to remain in game. Also a goldfarmer prevention mechanic, not that it exists anymore.

Dont die

L2P issue

Oh come on.. Who doesn’t enjoy pulling a mob to an afk guildie and watching him die.. you rez him and repeat till he’s naked

I agree. Equipment damage is pointless and ought to be removed. Failure to succeed is its own punishment. If you continually die/wipe, it takes significantly longer to complete content, and thus you are less productive with your time. I mean, consider why there’s no equipment repair required in sPvP.

Having to repair gear does not make the game more challenging. “Challenge” is what happens while you are alive and still fighting, not pointless busywork after you’ve already failed.

You think people who die a lot aren’t “inconvenienced”? Please. By and large, these are people who are still learning the game and trying to figure the mechanics of what’s going on. In a dungeon, 90% of their cognitive process is spent worrying about being kicked. They do not need their weapons and armor degrading into nothingness as affirmation of their inefficacy.

I remember the first time some guildies and I attempted Arah Path 3. We went in blind, just trying to figure it out as we went along. I think the entire run took us 4 hours. FOUR. FREAKING. HOURS. And you’re telling me it’s so darn important that our armor fall apart when we died? We weren’t having a rough enough time already?? It didn’t take us quite long enough as it is? Like, we weren’t taking each failure seriously enough?

Get real, guys. Armor damage doesn’t encourage better playing. It doesn’t make a game harder or better. It doesn’t teach anyone a “life lesson” about how failure is bad. It sure as heck doesn’t improve the LFG experience. It is a relic from the olden days of MMOs, when the main goal of the designers was to stretch every moment of gameplay to make it as agonizingly long and unproductive as humanly possible before people unsubscribed.

Think I have around 22 instant repair canisters in my bank, they’re probably one of the reasons.

I remember the good old days of corpse runs in EQ. Now those sucked.

I agree it should be removed. It’s totally pointless and only a minor inconvenience. I’d have nothing wrong with an actually punishing death system like in GW1, but as it stands I see no reason to keep it. I understand it might be hard to remove, which is fine, but somewhere along the line it should be removed. Until then, it’s only a minor thing, not that big a deal.

Next time OP will complain why not make we spawn at the death spot.
Seriously ? Why OP make this complain at the first place? That is why there is still an armor fix requirement.

TeddieJ.2495:

Next time OP will complain why not make we spawn at the death spot.
Seriously ? Why OP make this complain at the first place? That is why there is still an armor fix requirement.

So having redundant and pointless “features” is a good thing? It’s sole purpose now is to be an annoyance, it doesn’t actually have any positive or negative impact on game play.

If it’s an “annoyance” then it’s at least a negative impact to the player it’s annoying. Don’t want to it to be annoying, then don’t put yourself in situations where you die frequently via critters or other players.

caiomacos.1694:

pandorasbox.6340:

I think what he wants tho is a total removal of the system. That your armor doesn’t break down anymore.

Yeah. The way I see it, this system only make players waste time going to an armor repair every now and then, without actually providing a meaningful “death penalty”.

Wasting your time is the penalty.

pandorasbox.6340:

Well yeah. They just did the quick fix and modded the cost to zero instead spending days upon days, months upon months, removing the system entirely. As a guy who knows code, that is the easy way out honestly.

I agree with the practicalities of it but I’ll be going with…

Bran.7425:

It not like defeat should be an inconvenience or anything, right?

this.

Defeat already comes with a penalty via “Downed State” which get worse every time you die. You also can only self resurrect at a WP which costs money and time.

Repairs is a legacy feature which is generally used as a gold sink or as away to promote crafting. GW2 has neither as cost has been removed, and either the devs are to lazy to remove durability loss from items, or they have a contradictory outlook on how their game should be.

“Wasting Time” penalty is probably the worst excuse and is what is wrong with games today. Having meanless features that are there simply to waste time, is terrible game design.

If repairs had a cost, it would be fine, since it actually has a tangible penalty, one which could actually have an effect on the game(how many people will meta glass cannon if it costs them every time they die?).

A question for those in defense. Without repairs what would GW2 lose? What residual effects does repairs have on the game?

E: Missed this oddly enough.

pandorasbox.6340:

Well yeah. They just did the quick fix and modded the cost to zero instead spending days upon days, months upon months, removing the system entirely. As a guy who knows code, that is the easy way out honestly.

It is a easy way out but also a double edged sword, its a short term fix which can lead to issues down the road. Having a program full of useless code can cause performance issues or cause larger work load and more bugs if they needed to do any major revamps.

Behellagh.1468:

If it’s an “annoyance” then it’s at least a negative impact to the player it’s annoying. Don’t want to it to be annoying, then don’t put yourself in situations where you die frequently via critters or other players.

No. It’s not even an annoyance because people are already conditioned to visit repairers every time they see one. That makes the entire broken armor mechanic worthless.

And if they’re going to keep armor damage in the game, at least fix the sloppiness that is the missing backpiece in the armor damage display (at corner of health bubble)

Have to admit I facepalmed pretty hard when I came back and found they removed the gold penalty for repair.

This “feature” is now completely useless and I hope the guy who came up with this free-repair “brainwave” is no longer with ANet.

Bring back repair cost so the kittens learn to grow up and stop abusing this obvious gameplay loophole.

BrooksP.4318:

TeddieJ.2495:

Next time OP will complain why not make we spawn at the death spot.
Seriously ? Why OP make this complain at the first place? That is why there is still an armor fix requirement.

So having redundant and pointless “features” is a good thing? It’s sole purpose now is to be an annoyance, it doesn’t actually have any positive or negative impact on game play.

That’s not true it does have an impact as you gradually get weaker until you fix it.

I have loads of varying boosters in my bank, as I don’t really need them in PvE, does that mean because I don’t see the point of them they should be removed ?

WoW has becomes so easy now (not talking raiding) and some of the reasons are reasons of convenience, games should stop catering to lazy players.

Personally, I think one of the main reasons why the gold cost was removed was because the punishment affects new players more.

New players have little gold- even when they get to level 80 they may only have accumulated a couple of gold after buying level 80 gear. So, new players are getting the brunt of the punishment really… especially if they die often because they’re unfamiliar with game mechanics.

Let’s face it, the majority of veteran players can easily spare a few silver now and again. Chances are, if you’re a veteran and dying that frequently you’re doing comparatively hard content with reasonable rewards. The cost of repair is small compared to the reward of the content.

Moreover, a veteran player is much more likely to have a stash of repair cannisters, meaning they could avoid the repair cost completely anyway.

A new level 80 player, unfamiliar with the game might be dying frequently whilst exploring and might simply lose money because of waypoint/repair costs and little reward.

Before somebody argues that financial loss (through lack of skill) is reinforcement to improve your play… well, it might be. But it’s a negative reinforcer, I’m sure A-net would rather use the “carrot” of good rewards in hard content than the “stick” of punishment through failure.

In addition to it being a lot of work to remove entirely it makes sense to leave it in just in case they decide to start charging for it again.

Jinesis.3782:

caiomacos.1694:

pandorasbox.6340:

I think what he wants tho is a total removal of the system. That your armor doesn’t break down anymore.

Yeah. The way I see it, this system only make players waste time going to an armor repair every now and then, without actually providing a meaningful “death penalty”.

Wasting your time is the penalty.

And how is that meaningful? Why is wasting players time good? What good does it bring to the game?

caiomacos.1694:

Jinesis.3782:

caiomacos.1694:

pandorasbox.6340:

I think what he wants tho is a total removal of the system. That your armor doesn’t break down anymore.

Yeah. The way I see it, this system only make players waste time going to an armor repair every now and then, without actually providing a meaningful “death penalty”.

Wasting your time is the penalty.

And how is that meaningful? Why is wasting players time good? What good does it bring to the game?

The problem is changes just for the sake of convenience actually detract from the game as a whole.

Especially as one change for convenience leads to another and so forth.

What would your RL day be like if you removed all the things that you found inconvenient ? No longer having anything you found inconvenient.

Personally I don’t have an issue with having to repair gear. It’s not a hardship it’s actually very easy to manage.

Next you will be wanting more instant travel, as travelling from A to B is inconvenient.

Azala Yar.7693:

That’s not true it does have an impact as you gradually get weaker until you fix it.

I have loads of varying boosters in my bank, as I don’t really need them in PvE, does that mean because I don’t see the point of them they should be removed ?

WoW has becomes so easy now (not talking raiding) and some of the reasons are reasons of convenience, games should stop catering to lazy players.

While I’m not 100% but armor only loses its effect if its completely destroyed(when you become naked), but its a moot point since you can repair any time and at no cost. Since repair stations are everywhere and usually by high traffic areas, it becomes more of a habitual act, then a penalty. Which makes it redundant.

Boosters still have an effect, regardless of if you personally use them, though I don’t deny that some boosters are quite pointless. However have enough effect to warrant their existence.

To be fair GW2 is pretty much designed around being a convenience game. The problem being is they have annoying or inconvenient design where they don’t need them, and convenience where it shouldn’t be. This is my main issue with repairs.

I can’t speak for WoW, since I haven’t actually played it since shortly after the first expansion. Though I don’t disagree that catering to lazy players is bad, HOWEVER meaningless features are still useless, the removal of cost of repairs was catering to lazy players(or newbies), removing the current system is about removing an unneeded annoyance, not really about laziness.

As stated prior, having meaningless features simply to be an annoyance is terrible game design. It isn’t about laziness since repair stations are common place, it isn’t about risk since it has no cost, and the “penalty” is annoyance. It serves no purpose.

Azala Yar.7693:

caiomacos.1694:

Jinesis.3782:

caiomacos.1694:

pandorasbox.6340:

I think what he wants tho is a total removal of the system. That your armor doesn’t break down anymore.

Yeah. The way I see it, this system only make players waste time going to an armor repair every now and then, without actually providing a meaningful “death penalty”.

Wasting your time is the penalty.

And how is that meaningful? Why is wasting players time good? What good does it bring to the game?

The problem is changes just for the sake of convenience actually detract from the game as a whole.

Especially as one change for convenience leads to another and so forth.

What would your RL day be like if you removed all the things that you found inconvenient ? No longer having anything you found inconvenient.

Personally I don’t have an issue with having to repair gear. It’s not a hardship it’s actually very easy to manage.

Next you will be wanting more instant travel, as travelling from A to B is inconvenient.

Are you suggesting that the game should have inconveniences just for the sake of not being too convenient?

And no, I dont want everything in the game to be easy. I even mentioned a better mechanic imo than the armor repair: GW1 death penalty.

GW1 death penalty was better than GW2 mechanic for 2 reasons:

1) It had an tangible impact on gameplay. Having an up to 60% decrease on life / energy bars could be really troublesome, so it was important to avoid dying, and players couldnt just “exploit” party wiping like “Oh, lets all just die and run back to kill this boss” (well, at the end of the day they could, since everyone had tons of 4 leaf clovers lol).

2) It didnt force players to do useless tasks to remove dp. All you had to do is keep playing as usual and as you kill mobs / get xp (and, of course, dont die again) you would remove the penalty.