Guild Wars 2

lacrimstein.5603:

There must be a black hole, or a secret map somewhere on my server that I don’t know about then. Sure, Orr is busier than other areas, but the population there is not even close to accounting for all the other areas.

The point is, ArenaNet has all the numbers, not us. Something that happened in those numbers must have been so great that it made ArenaNet forget about one of their core pillars of GW2’s design. The guess that is so obvious it just begs to be made: a huge population drop.

Your operating on the assumption that Anet broke one of their own philosophies. That remains to be seen and it isn’t likely.

Do you play at normal times or do you play at odd times? Are you playing on a high, low, mid population server?

Is your server more PVP prone then PVE? Weekdays VS Weekends? All of this factors into what you see in the world.

Unless you have on your tin foil hat like my good buddy pal Kript, the game is still objectively going strong based on the market data.

This new update just might be… GASP… fun new content that isn’t going to completely change the game dynamic.

There’s no honest reason to believe that they’re going to break any of their core design pillars and general philosophies to making the games that they have done so to date, consistently.

Have a little faith… or at least wait until it gets here so that you have the matter of fact on your side.

showatt.9413:

[snip]
Developers aren’t stupid. They’re not gonna re design the game just because a few people whine.

They do it because the record in their hands indicate that – not just a few people like you have presumed – a lot of players are getting bored of grinding for skin. People aren’t as interested in skins as the GW1 purists, and the player population must have declined to a point where they had to do something.

I’m sorry, but if your so called “player base” is enough to keep the game afloat, and if grinding for skins is actually keeping the player interested as much as you claimed it should, then there’s no reason why they would change it.

This notion that the developers have infallible data and/or interpret data objectively is a huge fallacy. Numerous developers have admitted in the past in other mainstream games that forum whining did affect their choices, and sometimes, led them to believe that the majority wanted something that simply was not the case.

In the end, LOTRO admitted their mistake and got rid of the Radiance system. To be honest, the backlash on radiance was not even close to the backlash on the current development. I don’t think any developer expected such a massive reaction, and this should have immediately raised many red flags to anyone with half a brain.

CETheLucid.3964:

There’s no honest reason to believe that they’re going to break any of their core design pillars and general philosophies to making the games that they have done so to date, consistently.

Ohhhhh yes there is.

Starts with ‘N’, ends with ‘Soft’.

That said, I’m otherwise going to agree with your assessment and keep faith until it’s all out there.

smug.3895:

This notion that the developers have infallible data and/or interpret data objectively is a huge fallacy. Numerous developers have admitted in the past in other mainstream games that forum whining did affect their choices, and sometimes, led them to believe that the majority wanted something that simply was not the case.

In the end, LOTRO admitted their mistake and got rid of the Radiance system. To be honest, the backlash on radiance was not even close to the backlash on the current development. I don’t think any developer expected such a massive reaction, and this should have immediately raised many red flags to anyone with half a brain.

This especially applies when it comes to opinions.

This isn’t a balancing decision, this is them deciding to change the very core of the game to appeal to a different audience.

No amount of ingame metrics can tell you if that will make the game more or less successful.

Mavaho.1046:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bxszx60ZwGw

I love Extra Credits, and it should be mandatory for every game designer out there to watch every single episode they’ve put out.

Eain.7825:

As it stands Guild Wars 2 is a game where I could within 3 to 4 months have 5 exoticed 80’s, all of different classes.

I know! It’s great! That’s exactly what the game was designed to be like. That’s what they advertised and that’s why we bought it.

If I achieve that I’m done. I literally have nothing more to do.

Have you played games like doom? Super Mario? Did you stop playing them because your character couldn’t be improved? No. You kept playing because YOU improved at playing your character. That is the game I bought.

I can still at 80+exotics play with my friends. I can try new and weird skill+talent combinations. We can go off on guild-coordinated scavenger hunts. I can still do WvW+SPVP. I can still try to obtain a legendary to show off and enjoy the cool animations. There are still unending niches of lore that I skipped over the first time through in my rush to keep up with the Jones’ to level 80.

This is the sort of game I bought to play for years. I spent time to get my character ready for a decades worth of adventuring and exploring every niche of Tyria with my friends. A game where we can get together (no guild members excluded due to gear/level) and do whatever we want. Maybe it’s been a while since we ran one of the dungeons. Maybe we want to claim a keep for our guild in WvW. Maybe we just want to hang out in LA.

This is a different MMO than those grind-fests we did NOT buy.

It appears games are no longer a form of entertainment. People do not play them for fun.

If the number in your character window isn’t increasing then there’s no point playing! That’s the purpose, not entertainment but increasing a number.

For people who think this way I have some advice:

1. Buy a calculator.
2. Turn it on
3. Press 1
4. Press +
5. Press 1
6. Press =

Now, at this point I find most calculators will let you spam the = button and each time you do the number will increase. And if you buy a good calculator the cap is stupidly high!

You could “play” for months!!

Jestunhi.7429:

It appears games are no longer a form of entertainment. People do not play them for fun.

If the number in your character window isn’t increasing then there’s no point playing! That’s the purpose, not entertainment but increasing a number.

For people who think this way I have some advice:

1. Buy a calculator.
2. Turn it on
3. Press 1
4. Press +
5. Press 1
6. Press =

Now, at this point I find most calculators will let you spam the = button and each time you do the number will increase. And if you buy a good calculator the cap is stupidly high!

You could “play” for months!!

I’ve been suggesting these people play Progress Quest. Basically the same thing you suggest..

warmonkey.8013:

Jestunhi.7429:

It appears games are no longer a form of entertainment. People do not play them for fun.

If the number in your character window isn’t increasing then there’s no point playing! That’s the purpose, not entertainment but increasing a number.

For people who think this way I have some advice:

1. Buy a calculator.
2. Turn it on
3. Press 1
4. Press +
5. Press 1
6. Press =

Now, at this point I find most calculators will let you spam the = button and each time you do the number will increase. And if you buy a good calculator the cap is stupidly high!

You could “play” for months!!

I’ve been suggesting these people play Progress Quest. Basically the same thing you suggest..

Any game can be made to sound boring and reduced to the player spamming keys on a keyboard. Gear Progression can be done in a fun way, it can be done in a boring way. Skill Progression can be done in a fun way, and it can be done in a boring way. “Clever” remarks and sneers directed at a game that does it differently than what you like won’t change that.

smug.3895:

This notion that the developers have infallible data and/or interpret data objectively is a huge fallacy.

So in other words, the creators of the game have no clue what to do with their own games data. It could even be wrong!

But the data that they may collect isn’t objective. I’m to assume it may be biased, perhaps to the creators own vision and design.

Fancy that.

Based on some of the stats they’ve released, I’m fairly certain they have a better handle on their data then anyone else does.

Or you can put on your tin hat and choose not trust them.

Assume that they’re lying for some strange reason that doesn’t benefit them at all, and compare them unfairly to the LOTRO devs.

Based on some of the sigs I’m seeing, I would suppose I’m in a minority. Anet hasn’t yet given me any reason to distrust them.

Anets in a very small circle of game devs I genuinely trust. I have to honestly wonder why some of you think you can’t trust Anet.

I’m not talking about blind fanboyism, holding their feet to the fire is a good thing. But what I’m seeing is just irrational.

Are you really throwing out all your faith over this coming content update based on so very little? Life must be really hard for some of you.

smug.3895:

Numerous developers have admitted in the past in other mainstream games that forum whining did affect their choices, and sometimes, led them to believe that the majority wanted something that simply was not the case.

Well taking a note from that, I sure hope Anet doesn’t listen to the greater part of this lot here.

Might end up with something like the LOTRO fiasco or no new meaningful content period, lest we upset the forum philosophy of anything new being bad, too hard, too easy, not inclusive, too inclusive…

There’s a smell in the air here. It smells of paranoia and burnt out WoW gamers.

Tread lightly, lest the addition of a new backpack item and some jewelry bring about the end of our beloved game.

@OP

Getting to Level 80 can be done fast. HOWEVER, it’s not easy to do. It requires either knowledge of the most efficient ways of leveling at various levels of skill in combination with time.

Here’s the catch 22, in order to learn the most efficient ways to level players have to spend time. Here’s another catch 22, a lot of the player base from Guild Wars 1 and others don’t have as much time in a week to spend as others yet want to experience new CONTENT (not power barriers). I personally spend less than 10 hours a week playing the game, but that was after spending over 150 hours in the first two months to get a couple characters going so that I wouldn’t have to spend time progressing them ever again. Yet lo and behold… we have more progression that has been mentioned as required in order to experience new content… now because I like experiencing ANet’s content I have to progress more… forget that… I’m torn as to whether I’m going to continue investing time in the game.

In any case it should be pretty obvious why people don’t like power creep, because they have to invest more than they want to in order to keep up.

By the same token there are people who like power creep, because they have to invest more into the game in order to keep up and they like that. I don’t like, the significant portion of the playerbase that has recently been alienated by the introduction of the powercreep also don’t like it. Again the reasons why being, because they have to invest time overcoming time-wasting power barriers instead of being able to spend that time simply experiencing new content.

Hydrophidian.4319:

Ohhhhh yes there is.

Starts with ‘N’, ends with ‘Soft’.

Eh. They’ve been going seven years strong, seven years they’ve maintained their integrity.

If NCsoft was going to make them compromise it, you think they’d have done that by now.

Hydrophidian.4319:

That said, I’m otherwise going to agree with your assessment and keep faith until it’s all out there.

If I’m wrong, I’m wrong. That’s the end of that. But there’s no precedent there, no honest reason to think Anet is going to throw away seven years of integrity.

Anet deserves my trust and good faith unless they prove otherwise. They haven’t yet.

‘Power creep’ forces players to to waste more time regearing so they can do content, and in other MMOs, particularly WoW, they force players again and again to regear so they can do more content. Honestly, developers could just keep doing do this, and eventually some players will be fed up because they “worked REALLY HARD” for the their gear 1st round, only to be made obsolete in the next major game update so now they have to waste more time to catch up just to do the new content.

In GW2, at the moment, you only need gear once, after that, it is OPTIONAL to grind for skins, and the only goal left is to have fun, which I am having, not mandatory grinds in WoW, Aion and basically every MMO out there where you need to do this 50x to access better gear to do more content like PvE or unbalanced PvP because not everyone can be bothered wasting time doing it.

I know some people view getting better weapons or armor via grinding i.e. a second job, worthwhile, but not everyone enjoys it, and as indicated in the first paragraph, it can become an endless cycle, and make PvP unbalanced (assuming you can use ascended gear in WvW) as generally when better gear comes out, you are widening the gap where eventually only the hardcore players who have a lot of time on their hands and happy using it to play a game will get the very best gear, and the rest of us who can’t or won’t commit that much time will be griefed by them with our sub par gear.

On the other hand, I know some people don’t have fun in GW2 after getting the best gear currently so if you wish to spend more time playing MMOs, I think WoW would be a suitable alternative as I am sure some people have grinded 7 years of their life to have a very powerful character. For them, I am sure they are happy and had fun, but some of us don’t want to do that and are glad that GW2 is casual friendly where you can have fun and do everything GW2 has to offer currently with the gear that you have.

Give people a different incentive other than grinding gear for better stats EDIT: to keep playing.

HeeHee.5208:

On the other hand, I know some people don’t have fun in GW2 after getting the best gear currently so if you wish to spend more time playing MMOs, I think WoW would be a suitable alternative as I am sure some people have grinded 7 years of their life to have a very powerful character. For them, I am sure they are happy and had fun, but some of us don’t want to do that and are glad that GW2 is casual friendly where you can have fun and do everything GW2 has to offer currently with the gear that you have.

Yeah, you never played the original Guild Wars.

But yes, it was a blast, it still is a blast and I’m still happily signing in to this day. I prefer the GW1 set up to the GW2 one in some things. Still need to finish up my HoM for pretty shiny things.

That said, I’ve been having a blast in GW2 for all the reasons you mention.

You have no reason to believe the new content update will do anything to effect that equilibrium beyond conjecture and forum hysteria, based on some jewelry and a new backpack item.

For some perspective, the halloween event did all of the things the new content update is due to bring gear wise. How did they handle it?

Consider that.

CETheLucid.3964:

For some perspective, the halloween event did all of the things the new content update is due to bring gear wise. How did they handle it?

Halloween did not introduce gear with stats greater than Exotic, it just introduced some pretty rad skins and a limited-time dungeon..thing.

I’m pretty sure the Halloween thing went off pretty well. Maybe I’m wrong, but it seemed like a success, people liked it.

And it didn’t introduce mudflation to the game.

Imagine.

Power creep is a way (intentional or not) for developers to stall the player base with meaningless content (not new or innovative content – just more of the same with higher numbers) while they crank out something that is actually new or creative, something that will actually add to or extend the life of the game. It’s a poor way of doing things that lacks imagination and creativity or even effort in most cases – but unfortunately it makes money, and even game companies are businesses. And this is their job, and they’re going to select the best and most efficient routes to get players to purchase their game.

Sion.1653:

Power creep is a way (intentional or not) for developers to stall the player base with meaningless content (not new or innovative content – just more of the same with higher numbers) while they crank out something that is actually new or creative, something that will actually add to or extend the life of the game. It’s a poor way of doing things that lacks imagination and creativity or even effort in most cases – but unfortunately it makes money, and even game companies are businesses. And this is their job, and they’re going to select the best and most efficient routes to get players to purchase their game.

Strange thing is that they should have done the Ascended thing either during launch, or much later in game when the player base has been well-invested into the game. It could possibly be part of the expansion for level 80~100 equipment. This makes alot of sense considering we have rare from level 40 onwards and exotic from level 60 onwards.

Pandemic.3516:

nachtnebel.9168:

The fact there is nothing you have to do is what made GW1 so great, you could just log in, do what ever you wanted and then maybe played something else for the next two, three or even six month without losing power. This is what most of the old community expected GW2 to be like too.

The worst thing about the power creep or gear treadmill is that it is absolutely unnecessary. You don’t need increasing stats to do new or harder content cause mechanics don’t care about numbers, they work no matter if you have 20k or 50k HP.

this post is bs.

you could get level 20 gear in gw1 that was weak as piss and you would be slaughtered everywhere you went. you had to work extremely hard to be on a competing level. gw2 makes it so easy that those exotics people are complaining about being useless probably took no more than a week to get a full set.

I would love to see someone get max gear at max level in gw1 in a week or two.

I can get a Warrior to 20 and farm Tengus for feathers outside of LA in 1 day.

stayBlind.7849:

Pandemic.3516:

nachtnebel.9168:

The fact there is nothing you have to do is what made GW1 so great, you could just log in, do what ever you wanted and then maybe played something else for the next two, three or even six month without losing power. This is what most of the old community expected GW2 to be like too.

The worst thing about the power creep or gear treadmill is that it is absolutely unnecessary. You don’t need increasing stats to do new or harder content cause mechanics don’t care about numbers, they work no matter if you have 20k or 50k HP.

this post is bs.

you could get level 20 gear in gw1 that was weak as piss and you would be slaughtered everywhere you went. you had to work extremely hard to be on a competing level. gw2 makes it so easy that those exotics people are complaining about being useless probably took no more than a week to get a full set.

I would love to see someone get max gear at max level in gw1 in a week or two.

I can get a Warrior to 20 and farm Tengus for feathers outside of LA in 1 day.

I have all 10 chars in gw1 and each took aproximately 1 day to have max stats, i ncreased its looks rather than stats since then and have been very satisfied, here is proof that i am not talking lies:
http://imageshack.us/a/img339/7057/theguildwarskeepersoo9.jpg

We don’t fear the “power creep”. We are just tired of it.

replicant.3620:

We don’t fear the “power creep”. We are just tired of it.

I just dont even want it before i get tired of it, i got tired already in WoW

Yeah, but getting max gear won’t stay easy if this trend continues.

Also, why does everyone think that power creep = more to do? There won’t be, there’ll just be mechanics forcing you to do the things you can already do, except doing it more. Like if you want to grind dungeons over and over, you can do that right now. There’s nothing stopping you. There’s just nothing forcing you either.

ANet did not come out and say:
This is the final tier before legendary

I fear the unknown, I guess thats fear of ever-growing-powerful equipments/monsters and time I need to enjoy GW2. Is that fearing the power creep?

I like power creep as it makes my dude more powerful and progesses my dude i dont see whats wrong with new content giving more power I like vertical progression. This skins only stuff has lead to dungeons and end game being no exhistant and pointless.

I swear this community goes into a tear streaked uproar over every single new thing ANet implements. I can’t recall a single update/patch yet that didn’t have a river of tears behind it…

The way I understand this whole “gear progression” update is simple, they’re putting in a tier between Exotic and Legendary so people have something semi-difficult to strive for instead of being gear capped in a week (if that, lol) and having to grind for months (with the exception of the hardcore players) for Legendary weapons. I almost expect Ascended gear and Exotic gear to be interchangeable due to their respective “upgrade/infusion” slots in relation to this whole Agony business.

Are they going against their manifesto? Not really. IMO, they’re just trying to add some flavor to the game. At the very least, wait until it’s actually in the game (the patch is coming regardless of the QQ on the forums) and you see the positive/negative effects it presents before you throw a tantrum about it.

wookie slayer.4259:

I like power creep as it makes my dude more powerful and progesses my dude i dont see whats wrong with new content giving more power I like vertical progression. This skins only stuff has lead to dungeons and end game being no exhistant and pointless.

It makes the old content just easier and easier and the rewards from them garbage.

Dungeons will probably still get ran for the skins/titles, but one day Exotics will be almost as cheap as Masterwork items simply because nobody will want to use them anymore.

wookie slayer.4259:

I like power creep as it makes my dude more powerful and progesses my dude i dont see whats wrong with new content giving more power I like vertical progression. This skins only stuff has lead to dungeons and end game being no exhistant and pointless.

Why did you buy GW2 then? ANET said there wasn’t going to be Power creep. Its people like you that whined about not having it why people in the majority of the community are flooding the forums with “WTH is this crap!?”

Cyric.7485:

I swear this community goes into a tear streaked uproar over every single new thing ANet implements. I can’t recall a single update/patch yet that didn’t have a river of tears behind it…

The way I understand this whole “gear progression” update is simple, they’re putting in a tier between Exotic and Legendary so people have something semi-difficult to strive for instead of being gear capped in a week (if that, lol) and having to grind for months (with the exception of the hardcore players) for Legendary weapons. I almost expect Ascended gear and Exotic gear to be interchangeable due to their respective “upgrade/infusion” slots in relation to this whole Agony business.

Are they going against their manifesto? Not really. IMO, they’re just trying to add some flavor to the game. At the very least, wait until it’s actually in the game (the patch is coming regardless of the QQ on the forums) and you see the positive/negative effects it presents before you throw a tantrum about it.

Your statement is false for the fact that legendaries have exactly the same stats as exotics, the middle term for both? well there are some exotics worth way over 20 gold, i think those are there for a reason, the gap was never there, but u believed it, well done sir.
And yes they are going against their anti power creep talk.

Personally i want this ascended stuff shelved and never again ever hear about gear with stats that are superior to max stats, i want to relax and play the game i liked for all these years, if i wanted grinding i can assure u this game stand no chance vs games like WoW and DDO, i already see too many faults in this game to be able to ever compete with titles like those.

CETheLucid.3964:

If NCsoft was going to make them compromise it, you think they’d have done that by now.

What’s different now is…
- NCSoft is currently in a tenuous situation, financially.
- It’s going through a restructuring process.
- It has a lot riding on the success of GW2. The title has a considerably higher profile than its predecessor, both publicly and within the company itself. So, it’s not enough that GW2 is simply profitable. It has to meet whatever expectations have been placed on it. It has to meet projections (which may or may not be unreasonable).

If I’m wrong, I’m wrong. That’s the end of that. But there’s no precedent there, no honest reason to think Anet is going to throw away seven years of integrity.

The thing is, it might not be given a choice. The matter might be largely out of the studio’s hands. And if a decree came down from on high, we wouldn’t be told.

I’m going to hope you’re right. The picture you paint is entirely valid, and may indeed be the way things are.

What I’m pointing out, though, is that, based on the dynamics as they exist today, both within this particular scenario and with the industry as a whole, there is solid, rational basis for concern and trepidation. While I support your take on it, the bleaker situation I’ve described here is also all too feasible.

We’re not excited by the new gear, we don’t want it, we never asked for it, only a minority of greedy “Wah wah there’s no endgame” people asked for it, and the rest of is were silently playing the game and enjoying it.

We don’t want stat creep, we’ve seen it in WoW and every other MMO and it does not impress us.

Higher numbers is not gameplay.

warmonkey.8013:

Halloween did not introduce gear with stats greater than Exotic, it just introduced some pretty rad skins and a limited-time dungeon..thing.

I’m pretty sure the Halloween thing went off pretty well. Maybe I’m wrong, but it seemed like a success, people liked it.

And it didn’t introduce mudflation to the game.

Imagine.

New runes that could arguably compete/be better (superiors) then the current gear prior to the halloween update.

New halloween jewels in the upper levels which can be better then some of the jewels at launch.

Two new backpack items that blow away anything before level 80.

Where were the gear treadmill criers and tier grinding prophets then? How did those items effect the meta? Was it the end of the world then?

Were people excluded from this gear? Didn’t most twitchy folks buy the recipes on day one of the event?

Are people demanding you have this gear or GTFO? Is it necessary at all? Again, this game isn’t WoW. It doesn’t work the same way.

Anet was even kind and considerate to the folks who couldn’t even experience it because of Hurricane Sandy, let alone the gamers who were able to attend.

Was anyone left out?

A company that considers it’s fan base over the weather in a certain part of the country might deserve the benefit of the doubt.

(Not the first time they’ve done such a thing either. They have a history of that.)

The halloween event was a success. This new content update will be no different.

I have to wonder if some of you folks even read the blog post, more over then just looked at the pictures and flipped your desks.

I’m imagining that. It makes me laugh.

CETheLucid.3964:

warmonkey.8013:

Halloween did not introduce gear with stats greater than Exotic, it just introduced some pretty rad skins and a limited-time dungeon..thing.

I’m pretty sure the Halloween thing went off pretty well. Maybe I’m wrong, but it seemed like a success, people liked it.

And it didn’t introduce mudflation to the game.

Imagine.

New runes that could arguably compete/be better (superiors) then the current gear prior to the halloween update.

New halloween jewels in the upper levels which can be better then some of the jewels at launch.

Two new backpack items that blow away anything before level 80.

Where were the gear treadmill criers and tier grinding prophets then? How did those items effect the meta? Was it the end of the world then?

Were people excluded from this gear? Didn’t most twitchy folks buy the recipes on day one of the event?

Are people demanding you have this gear or GTFO? Is it necessary at all? Again, this game isn’t WoW. It doesn’t work the same way.

Anet was even kind and considerate to the folks who couldn’t even experience it because of Hurricane Sandy, let alone the gamers who were able to attend.

Was anyone left out?

A company that considers it’s fan base over the weather in a certain part of the country might deserve the benefit of the doubt.

(Not the first time they’ve done such a thing either. They have a history of that.)

The halloween event was a success. This new content update will be no different.

I have to wonder if some of you folks even read the blog post, more over then just looked at the pictures and flipped your desks.

I’m imagining that. It makes me laugh.

Given enough gold, you can get better runes and backbacks that what was provided post-halloween – This does not invalidate people’s investment.

Now with new update, exotics (equipment plateau) is going to be outclassed by ascended – This is radically a new tier, with new possibilities to be abused.

Too much of halloween items are going to spoil the market too, thats why it is a time-limited festival. But Ascended gears are going to change how you PvP, build your character, find dungeon buddies, etc.etc.

“The new additions in November are just the start of our item progression initiative.”

Just read this in the news by Linsey Murdock. So we can forget the hope, it’s not a stand-alone issue. We will have item progression initiative in GW2.

Great. I loved this game and wanted to play it for some years, you know

showatt.9413:

Seras.5702:

Pandemic.3516:

the only reason is because people kitten about wanting new content then want to kitten even more when its released because its not “exactly what they want”.

if we didn’t have a power creep when new content was released people would fly through it in a day or two and complain when there is nothing to do again, a power creep gives the dev atleast a few weeks even months before the excessive whining starts on the forums.

No, it’s not about what getting “exactly what they want” it’s about being given exactly what was promised, which is no gear treadmill. A power creep is not necessary. GW1 did it for years and thru new expacs still didn’t raise the level or gear cap for a long time. New content can be made challenging without having to raise gear numbers.

And power creep shouldn’t be implemented just to give the developers a month to stave off whining. There should be real reasons for any big decisions. And this is a big one.

I will say that I’m sick of people complaining about no end-game cuz they did it already. In GW1 we were all very happy to run FOW & UW & Tombs over and over and over. Because it was challenging and not every part was doable right away or without strategy. This game doesn’t require enough strategy just yet, but I’m confident.

It always comes back to “Gw1” is blah blah blah

isn’t it?

Sorry, I actually have faith in Anet.

If they didn’t think Ascended Gear was necessary, they would not have implented it, especially when they knew it’s going to pizz some people off.

And I really don’t care for Gw1 man. This isn’t Gw1. This is nothing like Gw1. If they’re gonna make another Gw1, they should have just give Gw1 a new expansion and better graphic.

This is Gw2.
They’re going for a new thing.

Feeling betrayed because they went back on their words? Bad luck.
Things happens. Turns out getting exotic is too easy and most people dont like horizontal progression.

Situation’s become so dire they had to roll in the change. Fast.

Well, yes, of course Guild Wars is relevant.

The reason we have a sequel is because some of the additions they wanted to add to GW in the first place wasn’t a possibility at the time, so they started working on a sequel as a long-term goal.

Whether you like it or not, GW2 is a sequel to a game that had certain gameplay elements. Those gameplay elements are part of ArenaNet’s design philosophy, which are outlined pretty clearly through interviews, articles, blog posts, and videos that the ArenaNet team have been releasing for years during development.

A major selling point for this game for a lot of people was that design philosophy. There aren’t supposed to be gimmicks, arbitrary rewards, gear treadmills, gated content, and gear checks in this franchise. This new content is all of the things they outright said they wouldn’t add.

So, with all due respect, those of us that are upset have an extremely good reason to be upset. This is a lot different from people not understanding there is no separate set of content at the level cap because they didn’t learn about the game before buying it. This is ArenaNet going back on their word.

It’s fine if you like the new content; Everyone likes different things. But some of us have been playing Guild Wars for years. Some of us have followed the development of Guild Wars 2 since the first moment they heard about it. Many of us have been very excited for this game for a very long time, and to find that three months after release they’re going back on all of the things I love about this game is extremely disheartening and very disappointing.

toomuchtatose.6874:

Given enough gold, you can get better runes and backbacks that what was provided post-halloween – This does not invalidate people’s investment.

Now with new update, exotics (equipment plateau) is going to be outclassed by ascended – This is radically a new tier, with new possibilities to be abused.

You had to be there for the backpacks and earn them via the scavanger hunt, you can’t buy them.

What you had before those runes are invalidated by the new runes you want to buy. You’re investing more money, so your initial investment was invalidated.

What’s your argument here? Do you want free ascended gear? Lucky for you, I know how to get free ascended gear. I wrote a spiffy guide for it.

So here’s how.

Fancy event coming up, no one has the gear yet, hook up with some friends/guildies… important part…

Have fun.

???

Free ascended gear. You can now stroll this dungeon like a boss whenever you feel like it.

You’re welcome.

toomuchtatose.6874:

Too much of halloween items are going to spoil the market too, thats why it is a time-limited festival.

No, it isn’t. There are near infinite halloween items on the market. A large number of people have the recipes for everything you can craft.

toomuchtatose.6874:

But Ascended gears are going to change how you PvP

Not likely. Did you read the recent announcement from Chris Whiteside by chance?

Should really slow everyones roll. They are listening to you. They clarified and offered you reassurance. What more can they do?

But alright, don’t let reason get in the way of your mass hysterics.

toomuchtatose.6874:

But Ascended gears are going to change how you build your character

Only if you’re a pedant about really minimal numbers.

You know, that idea (calculator wars) everyone says they hate right now, but will turn around and do in a heart beat for the mad skillz edge in combat.

And for every one of you talking out two sides of your mouth, you’re weak. You know who you are.

toomuchtatose.6874:

But Ascended gears are going to change how you find dungeon buddies

Absoultely false. Read the blog post. This isn’t WoW.

But Ascended gears are going to—

Eain.7825:

It seems to me that people fear power creep because they’re afraid they might not be able to get those items while others are.

You answered it yourself.
I don’t want “power creep” as you called it because I will be forced to do something I highly dislike to do, something I hated in WoW:
I’ll have to play with others. I’ll have to look for parties. I’ll have to do dungeons. I’ll have to care if I’m playing good or not.
I don’t want that. These days are long past me and I don’t want them back. I want an mmo where I never ever have to worry that somebody has better gear than me stat-wise. And I was absolutely happy with GW2 before this update.
Judging by all the negativity there’s a majority of ppl who hate this change. This style of gameplay does not belongs in this game. There is wow, there’s rift, swtor, whatever. If you want to be more powerful than rest, go play it. Leave gw2 as is. Gear should be easy and equal for all and obtainable absolutely solo and cheap.
Anet is chasing wow kitten, but these are terrible people, they only bring disbalance, whine and elitism.
Anet won’t win anything this way, but they’ll sure as hell lose what they have and they’ve got alot right now.

Power creep causes the majority of content in a game to become trivial over time, leaving only a tiny box in which players all grind away at maximum efficiency. It enforces and perpetuates the reward mentality…where players refuse to play a game unless they are constantly being provided with what they perceive as “better” shiny things. Developers are forced to cater to this mentality at the expense of good and engaging game play and actual depth. A gear treadmill of constantly trivialized rewards is not depth.

Power creep creates an ever-widening gap between old and new players, that ends up nearly impossible to bridge (trying to get a friend to join a game and grind old useless content for MONTHS just to be able to play with you). Power creep creates an ever-widening gap between players who have the time and inclination to grind out particular content which is gated by various mechanics, and those players who do not have that time or inclination.

Before long, these two different groups of players are so far apart they can’t feasibly play together. This means that developers must split their time, and begin creating entirely separate content for the haves and have-nots, and in those situations, the have-nots always end up losing in the developer time and effort tug-of-war. If you don’t grind, and don’t keep up with the Joneses, you get inferior content or no new content at all.

Power creep creates an ever-shrinking spiral of development where lower and lower quality content is created at a faster and faster pace for a smaller and smaller segment of the player population. It forces a developer to make the worst choices, and often entirely alter their game, to pull out of the spiral.

Why do people fear power creep? Because it wrecks games, and THIS was the ONE game that wasn’t supposed to have those problems.

MMO forum communities are so ‘funny’. Even during the massive succesyears of WoW, people on the forum complained about everything possible: nerf this, nerf that, content was too hard, then they whined about welfare epics, later on the expansion was totally failed, but one expansion later the previous one was the example to follow…and the game was dieing every few months according to the forums.

Look now..it’s still number 1.

I played WoW, Swotr, GW 1, GW 2 and some minor ones. Every forum is the same. People who are the most upset will act faster and post stuff. People who are content, are playing the game.

Just to say that a forum is NOT a representation of the majority. Which doesn’t means people who are posting should not be heard. It’s just dangerous to assume that 6000+ posts on 1 topic means the majority thinks likewise.

CETheLucid.3964:

You had to be there for the backpacks and earn them via the scavanger hunt, you can’t buy them.

What you had before those runes are invalidated by the new runes you want to buy. You’re investing more money, so your initial investment was invalidated.

If you are talking about runes, not all builds require those runes. Ascended equipments (at advertised) do not use runes/sigils etc, they ignore current runes/sigils completely.

CETheLucid.3964:

There are near infinite halloween items on the market. A large number of people have the recipes for everything you can craft.

I coincide on this point, even for time-limited event, there are many people who showed up, grinded and TP their wares.

CETheLucid.3964:

Not likely. Did you read the recent announcement from Chris Whiteside by chance?

Should really slow everyones roll. They are listening to you. They clarified and offered you reassurance. What more can they do?

But alright, don’t let reason get in the way of your mass hysterics.

What is not likely about WvW changing?

Chris Whiteside didn’t specify anything concrete except they have something in the works. And who is Chris Whiteside anyway? I am hysterical, because I don’t have faith in ANet and they do not want to share us their “DESIGN GOALS”.

CETheLucid.3964:

Only if you’re a pedant about really minimal numbers.

You know, that idea (calculator wars) everyone says they hate right now, but will turn around and do in a heart beat for the mad skillz edge in combat.

And for every one of you talking out two sides of your mouth, you’re weak. You know who you are.

I’m weak, okay. You are strong. I am no good at PvE, PvP, you have skills…

CETheLucid.3964:

Absoultely false. Read the blog post. This isn’t WoW.

Given time, everything will be compared to WoW.

toomuchtatose.6874:

What is not likely about WvW changing?

Chris Whiteside didn’t specify anything concrete except they have something in the works. And who is Chris Whiteside anyway? I am hysterical, because I don’t have faith in ANet and they do not want to share us their “DESIGN GOALS”.

Chris Whiteside – Studio Design Director

Let that sink in for a moment.

I don’t want to come off like I’m picking on you, it’s certainly not just you.

So very many people on this forum are reacting exactly like you are.

You’re misinformed. You’re letting your fear of what is to come get to you based on what other people are saying.

What they are saying is not necessarily true.

90% of it is fear mongering utter bunk with no basis in the matter of fact, let alone an informed opinion.

To these I say think before you reply. Read before you react. Think for yourself.

Honestly.. go through every page of the now 7000+ thread.. and look at who is posting.. There are several people who post multiple times. Now i’m not saying ignore the thread as irrelevant but 7000 people is in no way the majority of players ingame.. it’s just a large, and i say large as who knows how many people actually use the forums, amount of people with nothing better to do than whine and moan about content that isn’t even released yet.Just to make sure everyone understands this point i will clarify….7000 people are not even close to the majority of players.

CETheLucid.3964:

toomuchtatose.6874:

What is not likely about WvW changing?

Chris Whiteside didn’t specify anything concrete except they have something in the works. And who is Chris Whiteside anyway? I am hysterical, because I don’t have faith in ANet and they do not want to share us their “DESIGN GOALS”.

Chris Whiteside – Studio Design Director

Let that sink in for a moment.

I don’t want to come off like I’m picking on you man, it’s certainly not just you.

So very many people on this forum are reacting exactly like you are.

You’re misinformed. You’re letting your fear of what is to come get to you based on what other people are saying.

What they are saying is not necessarily true.

90% of it is fear mongering utter bunk with no basis in the matter of fact, let alone an informed opinion.

To these I say think before you reply. Read before you react. Think for yourself.

A.nets own fault.

A clearer explanation of just what the differences will be between current Exotics and Ascended gear would have gone a long way.

The developer tidbits I’ve seen all sound like gear treadmill. Ascended gear is an obvious panic reaction to cratering player activity. It still won’t save the game; culling is the single greatest issue facing the game, and they’re doing nothing to address it (at least cull NPCs, pets and clones first; 90% of what I do end up rendering before dying to invisible enemies is NPCs, pets and clones).

And since they’re obviously going with the knee-jerk panicked reaction of implementing some sort of gear treadmill three months into release, its more than likely they’ll keep trotting out more gear treadmill the next time player activity drops, especially if this new content actually has a net positive growth rate (since obviously many players are displeased and will leave, and there’s no telling what percentage of people who have left will return to even try it, let alone to stay).

Pandemic.3516:

nachtnebel.9168:

The fact there is nothing you have to do is what made GW1 so great, you could just log in, do what ever you wanted and then maybe played something else for the next two, three or even six month without losing power. This is what most of the old community expected GW2 to be like too.

The worst thing about the power creep or gear treadmill is that it is absolutely unnecessary. You don’t need increasing stats to do new or harder content cause mechanics don’t care about numbers, they work no matter if you have 20k or 50k HP.

this post is bs.

you could get level 20 gear in gw1 that was weak as piss and you would be slaughtered everywhere you went. you had to work extremely hard to be on a competing level. gw2 makes it so easy that those exotics people are complaining about being useless probably took no more than a week to get a full set.

I would love to see someone get max gear at max level in gw1 in a week or two.

I don’t know what gw1 you played but you certainly could get max level gear in a week in the one I played. Hell, it only took me a day. All you needed was a few crafting materials and like 15 silver per piece to make the common level 20 armor (and it was exactly the same as all the other armor.) Everything after that was tweaks like runes and insignias which were also easy to acquire.

CETheLucid.3964:

To these I say think before you reply. Read before you react. Think for yourself.

I am thinking for myself, btw.

Gradually I observed less and less people has been seen wandering around the sub level 80 zones, I found myself alone thinking if I should have power leveled to 80 instead of wandering around enjoying the scenery/chatter/lore…

Halloween event required me to approach some higher leveled buddy to get me to Sparkfly Fen, not cool. But for the carrot (the backpack) I still dig it. Dungeon + Jump Puzzles are still immensely fun of course.

Now they wanted to implement agony and stuff, I had to wrap my head around the mechanics that what ANet is trying to achieve here. Are they trying to exclude me from their content? And what about the runes/sigils I bought/craft?

I was sold on the premises (nobody promise me anything) that everything in-game = end-game, or at least lvl 80 (with easily accessible equipments) = end-game. Game is all about vanity and skills.

Now everything is just start-game.

Change is a creeping thing, you might fear it or you might like it.

I fear it, because this change has to do with power instead of vanity.

Instead of provoking me with AWESOME models and skins, they tried to entice me with equipments that I feel I must need in order to participate with my contacts/WvW. Being burnt out by other MMOs, it is perfectly logical to base my assumption from historical experiences.

lacrimstein.5603:

GADefence.5634:

. . .

Kript : People start at low levels. People level. People move on to higher leveled maps. Time has past, so most people are in high level maps. Low level maps are emptyish. Mid level maps are empty. Ergo, the game is dead.

And you say WE need to use logic? O.o

There must be a black hole, or a secret map somewhere on my server that I don’t know about then. Sure, Orr is busier than other areas, but the population there is not even close to accounting for all the other areas.

The point is, ArenaNet has all the numbers, not us. Something that happened in those numbers must have been so great that it made ArenaNet forget about one of their core pillars of GW2’s design. The guess that is so obvious it just begs to be made: a huge population drop.

I disagree. Mr. Whiteside has said that this update is part of expansion-size content being added this month, with fully supported and integrated systems and structures. Perhaps if your product absolutely bombs at launch, you might toss out your central philosophy and throw together a huge update in a couple of month’s time.

But that’s not what happened here. GW2 pre-launch and launch was a huge success, selling over 2 million copies. GW2 led global sales in Q3 for NCSoft. Servers filled up and they had to add servers. So, this content wasn’t hastily thrown-together because the game bombed. Also, and I can’t stress this enough, they fully expected exotic-level armor to be easy to get. That was one of the whole points – maxing out your stats as a character was supposed to be relatively easy.

Also, they knew there would be massive complaints by the gear-grinders, and part of the design philosophy was that you didn’t have to spend your life in the game keeping up – you could go play other games if “maxing out stats” was all you were interested in, coming back in to play occasionally for other reasons – you know, “fun”.

Their only intermediate source of income besides box sales was going to be the cash shop. Since box sales (including digital sales) were a success, the only other thing that could possibly have generated a hasty direction change would have been shockingly low cash shop sales.

But, even if cash shop sales were low, why abandon your core philosophy right out of the gate with the first update? Why not expand cash shop sales with all sorts of tuff people have been asking for in the suggestion threads that fit in with the core philosophy? I mean, shouldn’t they have been planning on expanding the cash shop first anyway, right off the bat, seeing that it was going to be their main source of intermediate income?

The only logical conclusion is: they’ve been planning this since before launch. This is not the result of people complaining on forums, or “player feedback”, or how fast people got exotics. This is not about filling a non-existent “reward gap” between exotics and legendaries (what a hoot!).

I don’t know who Mr. Whiteside is, or when he came into a position of power, but that official statement of his demonstrates that he doesn’t know what he is talking about, just as Ms. Murdock’s use of the term “end game” in her blog post demonstrates they have abandoned the “the whole game is the end game” philosophy.

This was most likely just a top-down decision made before launch by people that came into power recently that simply held personal beliefs about what was necessary, in the long run, to have a financially successful MMOG.

Ansultares.1567:

A.nets own fault.

It’s not Anet’s fault that you don’t read but small tidbits and blindly follow the majority off a cliff.

No one to blame for that but yourself.

It’s the fault of the illiterate and likely teenage majority who have problems with reading comprehension, context, and general trust issues.

Also, they’re working on culling. But you’d know that if you could be bothered to do a little research and read up on what Anet’s doing.

They’re pretty open and honest about these things, in spite of what you think is true in your own little world.

toomuchtatose.6874:

I am thinking for myself, btw.

It looks an awful lot like the hysterical bunch around here is doing your thinking for you. At least it seems that way.

If that’s not the case, well, okay. It is dully noted that you are thinking for yourself.

That you find yourself in agreement with the majority negative around here, and that you share almost the exact same misguided sentiments.

Way to think for yourself.

@Nachtnebel “So 6000 in two day are not enough but way less over the last three month are?
And if they don’t rely on forum posts what is their source? I haven’t seen any ingame surveys since the end of beta.”

Thanks for posting this Nacht. For all those saying Arenanet is doing this because it is trying to retain or attract new customers, maybe that is true. But where did they get their information that said adding a new “gear tier” would achieve that objective? Did they do market research? If so, why not state that as the source for the change?

Over the last 3 months, there have been forum posts here and at other sites saying no to this part of Arenanet’s design approach. Perhaps these posts coupled with a decrease in concurrent users, is the reason for this 180 degree change? But what quantitative analysis was done to support the assumption that gear progression will solve the problem (if there is a problem)? Having worked in Marketing and Product Development, I know that you cannot obtain valid market research within a 3 month timespan. It sometimes takes just 1-2 months to plan and design the research approach. Where are the surveys, focus groups, analyst studies?

But here is my main question, what next? I have also seen criticism of the lack of the “holy trinity.” Or the lack of “normal” quest hubs. Or the fact that there is no “raiding” or “traditional end game” (can so do same things at lvl 1 as lvl 80). Those may also be reasons that people have left. So will those concepts be introduced as well?

Or here is another possibility – maybe people have left because of the continued bugs that prevent content consumption or the Diminishing Returns. Until this change, DR had the highest forum post outrage at this site and others. Maybe people have left for that. The point is that it is doubtful anyone really knows until substantial, valid research analysis is done.

And here is the worse part. Some in this thread and others are suggesting that this new “gear tier” is a good thing because it will retain or attract new people. Ok. What if it doesn’t? What if the net result is an overall reduction in concurrent use? What if there is now on-going negative press due to this move? Negative press that convinces new potential customers to not buy the game.

Arenanet had the support of a core player base that bought into its design philosophy. They should have come up with a non-gear based approach for customer retention and acquisition.

So has any 3rd party website “data mined” the stats or skins for these new armors? i mean does anyone have any SOLID PROOF that this is actually going to be a gear UPGRADE from exotics.

from what i have seen even the legendary weapons arent upgrades, just different skins that are pretty amazing (except for the bows).

I guess when we have seen these new Armors and stats we will see that maybe this is just a way to have your stats presented on your gear(similar to PVP amulets).

this argument is in the realm of fanatical over reaction with a dash of elite fanboism and a whole bunch of I dont know.

CETheLucid.3964:

no honest reason to think Anet is going to throw away seven years of integrity.

BioWare.
Mythic.
Blizzard.

Do I need to continue?

It’s not power creep if you go up like 20 stats every couple of weeks.

Power creep right now is the amount of burst damage people are able to put out because of broken abilities / builds. Warriors can use haste + Hundred Blades + other abilities on you and dump out 10,000++ damage in 2 seconds.