Guild Wars 2

“this argument is in the realm of fanatical over reaction with a dash of elite fanboism and a whole bunch of I dont know.”

https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/linsey-murdock-unveils-new-high-end-ascended-gear/

Notice the picture from ANet? The picture with an Ascended ring, that is better then the exotic ring?

The picture from ANet. The one that says “Yep this is what an Ascended item is”.

Our posts may be fanboy, but yours reeks of ignorance.

GADefence.5634:

“this argument is in the realm of fanatical over reaction with a dash of elite fanboism and a whole bunch of I dont know.”

https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/linsey-murdock-unveils-new-high-end-ascended-gear/

Notice the picture from ANet? The picture with an Ascended ring, that is better then the exotic ring?

The picture from ANet. The one that says “Yep this is what an Ascended item is”.

Our posts may be fanboy, but yours reeks of ignorance.

Quoting you mainly for the link and in regards to people spazzing out about being forced into a gear treadmill. People are seriously losing their minds over this barely even worth mentioning improvement? I must be missing something because looking at that picture of the Ascended beside the Exotic, I can’t comprehend what’s up with all this GW2 doomsday talk. For that specific example shown, you gain 5 additional Power/Precision and 3% more Magic Find… and that’s considered a gear treadmill? Excuse me while I LMFAO at this. I remember playing an Assassin in Aion (pre-everyone gets a stunbreaker) and barely even having blues but still wrecking people with yellows. Same goes for GW2, having a bunch of cheap masterwork/rares didn’t stop me from strutting my stuff all over WvW and dungeons.

That little rant aside, I hardly see how this affects anything in the gear treadmill department unless you’re a neurotic min/maxer.

Cyric.7485:

GADefence.5634:

“this argument is in the realm of fanatical over reaction with a dash of elite fanboism and a whole bunch of I dont know.”

https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/linsey-murdock-unveils-new-high-end-ascended-gear/

Notice the picture from ANet? The picture with an Ascended ring, that is better then the exotic ring?

The picture from ANet. The one that says “Yep this is what an Ascended item is”.

Our posts may be fanboy, but yours reeks of ignorance.

Quoting you mainly for the link and in regards to people spazzing out about being forced into a gear treadmill. People are seriously losing their minds over this barely even worth mentioning improvement? I must be missing something because looking at that picture of the Ascended beside the Exotic, I can’t comprehend what’s up with all this GW2 doomsday talk. For that specific example shown, you gain 5 additional Power/Precision and 3% more Magic Find… and that’s considered a gear treadmill? Excuse me while I LMFAO at this. I remember playing an Assassin in Aion (pre-everyone gets a stunbreaker) and barely even having blues but still wrecking people with yellows. Same goes for GW2, having a bunch of cheap masterwork/rares didn’t stop me from strutting my stuff all over WvW and dungeons.

That little rant aside, I hardly see how this affects anything in the gear treadmill department unless you’re a neurotic min/maxer.

Er.. this has nothing to do with gear treadmill, mostly about using “Power” gears to entice/retain players.

Er.. this has nothing to do with gear treadmill, mostly about using “Power” gears to entice/retain players.Nothing similar to other MMOs, really. /sarcasm.

“Quoting you mainly for the link and in regards to people spazzing out about being forced into a gear treadmill. People are seriously losing their minds over this barely even worth mentioning improvement? I must be missing something because looking at that picture of the Ascended beside the Exotic, I can’t comprehend what’s up with all this GW2 doomsday talk. For that specific example shown, you gain 5 additional Power/Precision and 3% more Magic Find… and that’s considered a gear treadmill? Excuse me while I LMFAO at this. I remember playing an Assassin in Aion (pre-everyone gets a stunbreaker) and barely even having blues but still wrecking people with yellows. Same goes for GW2, having a bunch of cheap masterwork/rares didn’t stop me from strutting my stuff all over WvW and dungeons.”

People are affraid (and rightely so) that this will become a gear threadmill. First, the stat is MF – if it’s another thing, say power, of thoughness, it’ll be a lot more. Second, if it was crit chance, that’s a total of what? Around 30-40% crit damage for an entire set? That’s a pretty huge DPS difference.

2, the stat also include infusion. You want to do fractals? Get infusion. Do fractals to get infusion. But to use infusion, you need ascended armour. Do fractals for ascended armour. Then the next dungeon comes out that needs infusion, did you get good infusion from fractals? No? Go do fractals until you have enough infusion since this dungeon is 40% harder. Done fractals and the new dungeon? New new dungeon. 80% harder then fractals, go do fractals to do the new dungeon to get enough infusion to do the new new dungeon. . .

That’s what people are scared of.

GADefence.5634:

People are affraid (and rightely so) that this will become a gear threadmill. First, the stat is MF – if it’s another thing, say power, of thoughness, it’ll be a lot more. Second, if it was crit chance, that’s a total of what? Around 30-40% crit damage for an entire set? That’s a pretty huge DPS difference.

2, the stat also include infusion. You want to do fractals? Get infusion. Do fractals to get infusion. But to use infusion, you need ascended armour. Do fractals for ascended armour. Then the next dungeon comes out that needs infusion, did you get good infusion from fractals? No? Go do fractals until you have enough infusion since this dungeon is 40% harder. Done fractals and the new dungeon? New new dungeon. 80% harder then fractals, go do fractals to do the new dungeon to get enough infusion to do the new new dungeon. . .

That’s what people are scared of.

I see, I see…

Well, even with that in mind, it still seems like people are hugely blowing this out of proportion. As I said in my last reply, I was able to keep up with people in exotics when I was running around in masterwork/rare gear with no problems whatsoever so I really don’t expect this whole Ascended thing to have this immensely dramatic game altering effect that everyone is bugging out about.

We’ll just have to wait and see though, either way I’m just going with the flow, haven’t had a single thing in game shy of level ever stop me from doing much of anything and I don’t expect that to change with this.

Cyric.7485:

GADefence.5634:

People are affraid (and rightely so) that this will become a gear threadmill. First, the stat is MF – if it’s another thing, say power, of thoughness, it’ll be a lot more. Second, if it was crit chance, that’s a total of what? Around 30-40% crit damage for an entire set? That’s a pretty huge DPS difference.

2, the stat also include infusion. You want to do fractals? Get infusion. Do fractals to get infusion. But to use infusion, you need ascended armour. Do fractals for ascended armour. Then the next dungeon comes out that needs infusion, did you get good infusion from fractals? No? Go do fractals until you have enough infusion since this dungeon is 40% harder. Done fractals and the new dungeon? New new dungeon. 80% harder then fractals, go do fractals to do the new dungeon to get enough infusion to do the new new dungeon. . .

That’s what people are scared of.

I see, I see…

Well, even with that in mind, it still seems like people are hugely blowing this out of proportion. As I said in my last reply, I was able to keep up with people in exotics when I was running around in masterwork/rare gear with no problems whatsoever so I really don’t expect this whole Ascended thing to have this immensely dramatic game altering effect that everyone is bugging out about.

We’ll just have to wait and see though, either way I’m just going with the flow, haven’t had a single thing in game shy of level ever stop me from doing much of anything and I don’t expect that to change with this.

I do not think this is blowing way out of proportion. 2 Mil copies of GW2 sold with at least a good percentage of players fully involved in the game but didn’t comment about the game even once in the forum.

The amount of hate posts about the patch are so minority you might as well think its noise compared to the players already online. The noise gets filtered.. and poof! down the road > This game is going to become another MMO.

I am already used and tired of this kind of trend in MMO, but will still log in during the event to enjoy the “atmosphere” and new content… Though some of my RL friends wouldn’t join me this time.

“Well, even with that in mind, it still seems like people are hugely blowing this out of proportion. As I said in my last reply, I was able to keep up with people in exotics when I was running around in masterwork/rare gear with no problems whatsoever so I really don’t expect this whole Ascended thing to have this immensely dramatic game altering effect that everyone is bugging out about.”

Agony is said to stack up until you can’t continue. So you cna do agony to wave 6, wave 7 become 13% every second of your HP, boom, can’t do it no more. Kicked.

Ok, I’m busy now, let’s take a break/work on an alt. All your alts are 80 now, new content, agony starts at 26% HP every second. No one wants to do anything under level 10 agony (42% HP a second) since they all have green or gold infusion – so they don’t allow you in and get the purple infusion which let’s them to do level 12 (51% HP a second). . . Now you’re left behind, and less and less people are doing those lower level runs.

This is what people fear. Also, it seems to be fairly universal that people hate this. I say fairly, because some lovers are out there, but they are a lot rarer (there’s about 90% more indifferent/hates then there are lovers it seems).

Eain.7825:

Here’s what I don’t get.

Levelling in GW2 is easy, especially if you’re lucky enough to find a few crafting boosters in your black lion chests. Yesterday I logged in to my level 74 necromancer and had enough mats in the back from levelling my warrior to 80 and getting her decked out that I could level my necro’s artificing and tailoring to 400 from 350ish in one go, thereby getting me all the experience I needed to hit 80.

I went from 74 to 80 in ~25 minutes time, counting the minutes spent running back and forth between black lion and the hoelbrak crafting stations to get additional mats for discoveries (putrid essences and such).

I now own the game for just over a month and a half and I have two level 80’s, my warrior who’s decked in exotics and my necromancer who when I woke up was level 74 in assorted greens and blues and 25 minutes later was 80 wearing all rares. For my necromancer all I now have left to do is, basically, get exotics, but I’ve got enough karma to buy the ones I need from the temple vendors in Orr and I’ve got enough ectos and gossamer stored to craft the ones I need from tailoring. If I want I can be kitted out in full exotics a week from now, days even, and then I’d still have cash to spare to buy orichalcum rings on black lion.

Levelling in this game is easy.

Getting max gear at level 80 is easy.

Aesthetic upgrades would be interesting if there were enough armour models to go around, but even then, why would I want to keep transmuting different looks onto the same armour? Not to mention that at some point you’re going to run out of transmutation stones because you’ve got all zones explored.

Basically the only thing you can really do in this game is level a new char, but if you went for 100% world explore on your first like I did then it becomes an exercise in repetition.

The only thing I could possibly want to achieve at this point is a legendary weapon. I could get one by not logging in more than one to two hours a day over the coming months and just gradually working my way towards it.

I don’t consider logging in for one to two hours a day to get a weapon I’ll never actually really use (because when I have it I have everything and the last thing I want to do is grind places with it that have nothing left to offer) as ‘playing’ a game. I want to play guild wars 2. I don’t want to meander through it.

Power creep is the only solution. There always has to be something to chase. There have to be better items, better upgrades, more things to do. As it stands Guild Wars 2 is a game where I could within 3 to 4 months have 5 exoticed 80’s, all of different classes. If I achieve that I’m done. I literally have nothing more to do.

It seems to me that people fear power creep because they’re afraid they might not be able to get those items while others are. I’ll tell you something about these supposed ‘others’: in a game where there’s nothing to do, they don’t exist. Even in my own guild people are pretty much only online when we agree to do a dungeon to give ourselves the illusion we’re still playing this game. It’s dead otherwise. What’s wrong with giving people an incentive to keep playing? Because I promise you that your single item-level gear utopia is going to be a very deserted one.

Agree with you.

“It seems to me that people fear power creep because they’re afraid they might not be able to get those items while others are. I’ll tell you something about these supposed ‘others’: in a game where there’s nothing to do, they don’t exist. Even in my own guild people are pretty much only online when we agree to do a dungeon to give ourselves the illusion we’re still playing this game. It’s dead otherwise. What’s wrong with giving people an incentive to keep playing? Because I promise you that your single item-level gear utopia is going to be a very deserted one.”

Sorry, I can’t hear you over the sound of how populated first person shooters are.

They never get item improvements.

Also, you forgot one thing : The single item level gear utopia will be deserted of one : You.

Eain.7825:

It seems to me that people fear power creep because they’re afraid they might not be able to get those items while others are. I’ll tell you something about these supposed ‘others’: in a game where there’s nothing to do, they don’t exist. Even in my own guild people are pretty much only online when we agree to do a dungeon to give ourselves the illusion we’re still playing this game. It’s dead otherwise. What’s wrong with giving people an incentive to keep playing? Because I promise you that your single item-level gear utopia is going to be a very deserted one.

False. People dislike power creep because it destroys the immersion quality of the world, needlessly gates content, and seriously threatens the polish of the game’s mechanical systems. Moreover, it doesn’t do anything at all good for the game that isn’t 100% illusory and superficial.

Horizontal progress is much, much better than vertical progress. Period.

I feel like this game didn’t even need to have leveling or levels at all. They use leveling as a way to introduce you to your class slowly. I have never been so into a game for it’s game-play other than somting like Dark Souls. Power creep removes that “playing for the fun of playing” aspect.

I don’t mind rankings, stats, skins etc but added power becomes something you are required to get to compete. The main problem for me as a WvW style PvPer is Anet considers WvW to be PvE.

Draknar.5748:

Let’s all just pretend that Ascended gear existed from the beginning. I mean, it’s only 3 months in. Two years from now we will barely remember that Ascended gear came in 3 months after release, it will just be a part of the game.

You’re right. In two years GW2 players wont remember Ascended gear because they will have trashed it 3 months after getting it so they could replace it with the new Bodhisattva gear and will now be hard at work grinding the Diety/Godsmack/Lemon Crusted gear that’s the latest high point on the treadmill.

Cyric.7485:

People are seriously losing their minds over this barely even worth mentioning improvement?

No, for the most part, they are not. And that’s been pointed out repeatedly. This is a recurring strawman argument that really should be taken out behind the barn.

The items are primarily a concern, not because of their comparative attributes, but because of the precedent they potentially set for the game moving forward.

The concept underpinning this introduction appears to run counter to the different approach that ANet has hyped and promoted as a defining characteristic of their game for several years.

It’s reasonable to assume that if you tout something as a major selling point of your product, the customer base you’ll end up with will have largely been drawn in by that selling point. After all, that’s why you hype such a thing, right? To generate interest and draw people in.

If you then fail to provide that selling point, or take it away, or even appear to be planning to do so, a significant negative backlash, ranging in degrees from reserved disappointment to full-on O’Reilly “we’ll do it live!” flip-out, should not come as a shock to anyone.

Now, it’s true, this still could be much ado about nothing. The offending content hasn’t even been introduced yet. It may not be a big deal at all; a relatively benign nod to a play style that some gamers do indeed enjoy, that won’t have much if any impact on the larger community. There are reasons to see it this way, not the least of which being ANet’s reputation, history, and the philosophy that the studio has been advocating all along.

However, it can also be seen as an about-face and as a terrible indicator of things to come. That viewpoint also has a lot of legitimate basis.

Are some people over-reacting? Absolutely. But such a reaction to a conclusion does not necessarily invalidate the reasoning behind that conclusion. There are strong, solid arguments to be made on both sides of this issue. Being dismissive isn’t one of them.

One thing’s for certain: even in the best case scenario, ANet—or probably more specifically, the marketing department that handled this whole thing—was woefully tone deaf and clumsy in its unveiling of this content. I wouldn’t be at all surprised if there’s been a lot of frustrated screaming behind the scenes this week.

Hydrophidian.4319:

Cyric.7485:

People are seriously losing their minds over this barely even worth mentioning improvement?

No, for the most part, they are not. And that’s been pointed out repeatedly. This is a recurring strawman argument that really should be taken out behind the barn.

The items are primarily a concern, not because of their comparative attributes, but because of the precedent they potentially set for the game moving forward.

The concept underpinning this introduction appears to run counter to the different approach that ANet has hyped and promoted as a defining characteristic of their game for several years.

It’s reasonable to assume that if you tout something as a major selling point of your product, the customer base you’ll end up with will have largely been drawn in by that selling point. After all, that’s why you hype such a thing, right? To generate interest and draw people in.

If you then fail to provide that selling point, or take it away, or even appear to be planning to do so, a significant negative backlash, ranging in degrees from reserved disappointment to full-on O’Reilly “we’ll do it live!” flip-out, should not come as a shock to anyone.

Now, it’s true, this still could be much ado about nothing. The offending content hasn’t even been introduced yet. It may not be a big deal at all; a relatively benign nod to a play style that some gamers do indeed enjoy, that won’t have much if any impact on the larger community. There are reasons to see it this way, not the least of which being ANet’s reputation, history, and the philosophy that the studio has been advocating all along.

However, it can also be seen as an about-face and as a terrible indicator of things to come. That viewpoint also has a lot of legitimate basis.

Are some people over-reacting? Absolutely. But such a reaction to a conclusion does not necessarily invalidate the reasoning behind that conclusion. There are strong, solid arguments to be made on both sides of this issue. Being dismissive isn’t one of them.

One thing’s for certain: even in the best case scenario, ANet—or probably more specifically, the marketing department that handled this whole thing—was woefully tone deaf and clumsy in its unveiling of this content. I wouldn’t be at all surprised if there’s been a lot of frustrated screaming behind the scenes this week.

Great post, and yes, it is most definitely the possibility of what it means for the future development of the game that is causing people to react with zeal and terror.

Regardless, it’s actually a good thing that it’s happening because it will cause Anet to stop and think very seriously about what it is they are doing, and for the time being I retain some confidence they will make the right decisions.

GADefence.5634:

Then the next dungeon comes out that needs infusion, did you get good infusion from fractals? No? Go do fractals until you have enough infusion since this dungeon is 40% harder. Done fractals and the new dungeon? New new dungeon. 80% harder then fractals, go do fractals to do the new dungeon to get enough infusion to do the new new dungeon.

My interpretation was that each new dungeon they add in future content updates would require different infusions. So, fractals would require agony resist infusion, the next one may require fire resist infusion, nature resist infusion, etc. The goal being that there is not a requirement to do prior dungeons. I’m still against gated content and think upping challenge by increasing mob stats that players have to overcome by upping some other stat (whether it is infusion level or vitality) is thoughtless design that gives the illusion of challenge, but I don’t think the gating will be as significant as other MMOs.

Amra.6028:

BioWare.
Mythic.
Blizzard.

Do I need to continue?

And your point is?

Anet hasn’t joined those ranks. We have Anet today because they parted from Blizzard.

Hydrophidian.4319:

If you then fail to provide that selling point, or take it away, or even appear to be planning to do so, a significant negative backlash, ranging in degrees from reserved disappointment to full-on O’Reilly “we’ll do it live!” flip-out, should not come as a shock to anyone.

Even O’Reilly kept it professional when the camera turned on. Some of the clowns here are in flip out mode 24/7. That is surprising, albeit entertaining.

It betrays any point they may have when they objectively deny the facts and continue to push their hysterics and fear mongering as a matter of fact.

This content update can’t come soon enough. When it get’s here and the sky didn’t fall, prepare your kittens.

They’re going to be bathed in the bitter waters of shame, lathered and shampooed with the soap of exposure; showing a great many of you as a bunch of alarmist pissant fanboys.

Also, they’re going to tear up your arms. Cats hate baths.

(Speaking generally here, and not specifically at you Hydrophidian. You’re being relatively reasonable about it. Thanks.)

Sir Moogie, I think you’re slightly right in this. I think they’ll do fire/water/agony/etc. But, considering their wording, I think they’ll do ‘Omni’ as well – if this is limited to attack/defense vs attack/defense to every type of infusionable content. . .

Also, you’ll need to do fractals for the backpiece / ring. Then, you do the next one for the next stuff. Hence, the newest stuff gates the prior stuff, and only a small portion of the community will rally to complete the oldest content and move on to the newer content.

Einlanzer.1627:

Great post

Thanks.

Regardless, it’s actually a good thing that it’s happening because it will cause Anet to stop and think very seriously about what it is they are doing, and for the time being I retain some confidence they will make the right decisions.

I’m inclined to agree. The statement from Chris Whiteside has gone a long way in alleviating my own concerns. It’s actually just the sort of message that probably should’ve prefaced the content announcement. Oh well. Live and learn, I guess.

But yah, the community reaction should still be telling.

ComeAndSee.1356:

It’s not power creep if you go up like 20 stats every couple of weeks.

Power creep right now is the amount of burst damage people are able to put out because of broken abilities / builds. Warriors can use haste + Hundred Blades + other abilities on you and dump out 10,000++ damage in 2 seconds.

No, going up 20 stats every so often is the exact poster child of power creep. It’s also the most blatantly obvious form of it, as well as the least valuable for actual gameplay, AND the least interesting. What you’re talking about with warriors is either imbalance or a L2P issue, depending on who you ask. There’s no power creep when nothing is moving.

GW1 had some power creep in the form of new skills being added over time, but those were still bound by balance with to the old skills, and here’s the important part: They actually added gameplay and options. Imagine that, adding options instead of requirements!

Most of the arguments here seem focused on the armor itself.

What about the infusions? Are they going to end up like the BL Keys and be almost impossible to attain through play rather than having to buy them (or their components to create in the forge). My fear is that the components WILL end up having to be purchased….opinion only.

Oldbugga.7029:

What about the infusions? Where do they come from? Are they going to end up like the BL Keys and be almost impossible to attain through play rather than having to buy them (or their components to create in the forge). My fear is that the components WILL end up having to be purchased….opinion only.

If it’s possible to buy them, then there is literally no purpose to adding them in the first place. Their entire purpose is to give people something to play towards in-game, so they feel like they’re advancing or something. If you can just outright buy the things then they mean even less than the little they already do.

Hydrophidian.4319:

Einlanzer.1627:

Great post

Thanks.

Regardless, it’s actually a good thing that it’s happening because it will cause Anet to stop and think very seriously about what it is they are doing, and for the time being I retain some confidence they will make the right decisions.

I’m inclined to agree. The statement from Chris Whiteside has gone a long way in alleviating my own concerns. It’s actually just the sort of message that probably should’ve prefaced the content announcement. Oh well. Live and learn, I guess.

But yah, the community reaction should still be telling.

Hydrophidian, great posts. You said everything I’ve wanted to say — only with much more calm and grace.

I’m currently in a wait-and-see hold. If ascended is the last tier, then that’s alright. I can live with that, albeit still with a lingering fear of future “betrayal.” But I can tell myself with a straight face that the game and the studio I’ve loved hasn’t transformed into something that I can’t recognize, or can bear to look at.

Much like you, I’m waiting, watching, and hoping.

CETheLucid.3964:

Even O’Reilly kept it professional when the camera turned on.

That’s debatable. But I understand what you’re saying.

Some of the clowns here are in flip out mode 24/7. That is surprising, albeit entertaining.

It betrays any point they may have when they objectively deny the facts and continue to push their hysterics and fear mongering as a matter of fact.

Keep in mind, however, that if you’re right… those folks are not the only ones who will have been wrong.

Another camp that will have been off the mark is the one that welcomed this very same perceived shift, the camp that was lauding ANet for embracing the conventional design model found in other titles.

If you’re right, they won’t actually be getting what they want. Or at least won’t be getting it to any degree that will satisfy them. So we’ll probably have a new wave of “I’m bored” threads shortly after the release of this mini-expansion. And so the wheel turns.

Point being, no side in this (or any) debate holds a monopoly on irrationality, doom-saying, self-absorption, etc. and so on.

warmonkey.8013:

Jestunhi.7429:

It appears games are no longer a form of entertainment. People do not play them for fun.

If the number in your character window isn’t increasing then there’s no point playing! That’s the purpose, not entertainment but increasing a number.

For people who think this way I have some advice:

1. Buy a calculator.
2. Turn it on
3. Press 1
4. Press +
5. Press 1
6. Press =

Now, at this point I find most calculators will let you spam the = button and each time you do the number will increase. And if you buy a good calculator the cap is stupidly high!

You could “play” for months!!

I’ve been suggesting these people play Progress Quest. Basically the same thing you suggest..

Haha, I played that game 24/7 for a couple weeks. Made so much… progress.

Cyric.7485:

GADefence.5634:

“this argument is in the realm of fanatical over reaction with a dash of elite fanboism and a whole bunch of I dont know.”

https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/linsey-murdock-unveils-new-high-end-ascended-gear/

Notice the picture from ANet? The picture with an Ascended ring, that is better then the exotic ring?

The picture from ANet. The one that says “Yep this is what an Ascended item is”.

Our posts may be fanboy, but yours reeks of ignorance.

Quoting you mainly for the link and in regards to people spazzing out about being forced into a gear treadmill. People are seriously losing their minds over this barely even worth mentioning improvement? I must be missing something because looking at that picture of the Ascended beside the Exotic, I can’t comprehend what’s up with all this GW2 doomsday talk. For that specific example shown, you gain 5 additional Power/Precision and 3% more Magic Find… and that’s considered a gear treadmill? Excuse me while I LMFAO at this. I remember playing an Assassin in Aion (pre-everyone gets a stunbreaker) and barely even having blues but still wrecking people with yellows. Same goes for GW2, having a bunch of cheap masterwork/rares didn’t stop me from strutting my stuff all over WvW and dungeons.

That little rant aside, I hardly see how this affects anything in the gear treadmill department unless you’re a neurotic min/maxer.

Guess what?
First, why even have an increase?
Second, why the silly infusions? That’s forcing. Without any real need. Why not design proper encounters. Oh, that’s why. AssNet horrbily failed to create challenging encounters so the challenge is now as silly as enrage timers and gearchecks.

Hydrophidian.4319:

Point being, no side in this (or any) debate holds a monopoly on irrationality, doom-saying, self-absorption, etc. and so on.

You’re wrong. There’s an obvious monopoly in who’s being irrational, who’s doom preaching, and which side is being entirely self-absorbed over this. It’s very discernible.

If you don’t see that, you’re pretending not to see it. Trying to be objective in the face of reality. That never works out, by the way. It makes you a liar.

It emboldens for better or for worse the majority you pretend to diminish in being falsely objective.

Lol O’Reilly. I take it you’re a fan of his?

warmonkey.8013:

Djinn.4396:

I kinda hope they do away with the idea of eliminating the trilogy and bring it into the game even if in a different form and make dungeon running a legit form of progression.
If not I will probably have to go get Storm Legion…

seriously, you come across one single game that is unlike the one/s you’re used to and you want to hammer it down to fall into line with the others?

that’s simply demented.

what would YOU do to this game? ‘cause I get the feeling that what you want already exists in the MMO market. why aren’t you there instead of here trying to ruin the kitten i was enjoying.

Because I would like a AAA Free to Play game that more suits the style of play that I enjoy, being dungeon running as a tank…

Jestunhi.7429:

It appears games are no longer a form of entertainment. People do not play them for fun.

If the number in your character window isn’t increasing then there’s no point playing! That’s the purpose, not entertainment but increasing a number.

For people who think this way I have some advice:

1. Buy a calculator.
2. Turn it on
3. Press 1
4. Press +
5. Press 1
6. Press =

Now, at this point I find most calculators will let you spam the = button and each time you do the number will increase. And if you buy a good calculator the cap is stupidly high!

You could “play” for months!!

I’m currently level 177 and counting! WOOOOOO!

People are getting sidetracked here.

Arenanet flat out lied when they marketed this game.

Now we’re seeing the real thoughts coming through.

They advertised no grind, go where you want, do what you want. Thats all false information now. The entire endgame. Every single thing about it is a pure unadulterated grind. There is no challenging content at all in this game. As someone quite rightly said earlier in the thread, the game is devolving into a generic run of the mill MMO. If we wanted to play that, we’d go to another mmo who can actually develop the game right.

We came here because of how it was marketed, because they said it would be guild wars 1 in a full on mmo universe. That again was a lie. The lores there, characters are there, places are there, but the gameplay is terrible and absolutely nothing like we expected or how it was told to us.

Of course, i’ll prob get reported for this and lose my forum privileges again simply for stating full on facts, but i guess ’ thems the breaks’.

@ op, no fear, just disappointment in a design philosophy that built a franchise and is now being completely abandoned.

I have watched as ArenaNet’s philosophy slowly change over the years. First word came that we’d be getting WoW’s 80 levels, then announced we’d be getting a robust system where players would play numbers rather than challenges – robust stats progress. Jeff Strain, James Phinney, who spearheaded the horizontal hub system EoTN left the company. Current lead designer, a former WoW developer, seemed very proud about the many aspects that were turning GW1 into WoW II.

It is a hard call in truth, EoTN, Hardmode, gw1 generally, had just scratch the surface of an entirely new concept for the MMO genre, horizontal progress as ‘entertaining content’ – access – rather than the human hamster on stat crack, spinning the hamster wheel – gating by stats.

Now that ArenaNet has moved so much closer to WoW, the company has realized they’ve created a ‘half measure’ an incomplete product that is neither WoW or GW1, a hybridization, though less hybrid more a corruption; a collision of two incompatible systems.

ArenaNet has to now make a choice as players sense the fabric is flawed, both wow players and old gw1 players. The game is beautiful, but it lacks a true soul. What should that soul be? Well, we have lost two of the best designers for the original GW1 structure, so my educated guess is that ArenaNet, to regain financial ground, needs to move to the WoW model, as current ‘lead’ development embraces WoW model most of all.

It will make a beautiful WoW II, but as you can see from my sig I choose to take my business elsewhere; already tried WoW, and GW2, not much difference between the two when you add the unattainable end game carrots [stats].

Was actually enjoying the game [gw2], have collected lot of small suggestions with larger relevance, a good sign I am invested. But now there is little ArenaNet can do to repair the lost faith in their integrity.

My business advice to ArenaNet, fulfill your destiny, make the ‘easy’ choice go for WoW II, build a complete tier system for the stat hungry. Though it may be the soulless choice in the end, the profits may improve a bit.

It seems their obsession with becoming an ‘e-sport’ is dominating over them actually making a solid and fun game. Hence all the nonsensical nerfs to pve that come directly from pvp.

Prime example? Greatsword guardian spec. They pretty much gutted it down to an auto attack spec.

Because they are narrow minded and would rather rabble rabble rabble than think or wait

CETheLucid.3964:

Hydrophidian.4319:

Point being, no side in this (or any) debate holds a monopoly on irrationality, doom-saying, self-absorption, etc. and so on.

You’re wrong.

I’m rather demonstrably not wrong. So much so that, given your otherwise level contributions, I have to assume I wasn’t clear enough, and you’ve subsequently come away from my post with the wrong impression.

There’s an obvious monopoly in who’s being irrational, who’s doom preaching, and which side is being entirely self-absorbed over this. It’s very discernible.

In this particular instance, yah, one side of the argument has the lion’s share of doom-saying, sure. But certainly not all of it. For example, ‘If this game doesn’t start catering to those who want vertical progression (read: treadmill), it’s doomed. Proof: all my friends have already left,’ is most assuredly a recurring argument in all of this. ‘Everyone expects MMOs to be designed a certain way, and that’s the only way they work. If ANet doesn’t start accommodating that, it’s going to fail,’ is another one I’ve tackled directly. So there’s your doom-saying on the other side. I’m going to assume I don’t have to provide direct links. In fact, I’m pretty sure examples of this sort of thing can be found in this very thread, as it relates directly to power creep, pro or con.

Irrationality. If you assert that a certain conclusion is irrational, the reaction that comes along with it shouldn’t make a difference. There are certainly people who’ve concluded that ANet is abandoning its principles, and they’ve been cheering about it. How is their conclusion any more rational than those who aren’t happy about it? It’s not. It’s myopic wishful thinking vs. alarmist, knee-jerk “fear mongering”. They’re both irrational.

Self-absorption. When a person buys and plays a game that’s been advertised as being X and not Y, and then that person complains that there is too much X and not enough Y… and actually starts arguing that they’re entitled to Y… I’d call that self-absorption of the highest order. See: countless “I’m bored” threads.

Today we have one camp gloating and another camp “whining”. In a week or two, if your assessment of the situation is correct (I think it is or, at least, correct enough), those roles will be reversed (again). Overall, the tone of the dialogue will be much the same, even with the turning of the tables.

Each side has resorted to strawman arguments, hyperbolic rants, trollish ad-hominem attacks and derogatory generalizations. I’d say these things damage the discourse more than anything else, and I’d suggest you’d be better served if you were to direct your ire at that, rather than raking a particular camp across the coals.

Lol O’Reilly. I take it you’re a fan of his?

I only like O’Reilly when he’s opposite Jon Stewart.

My impression of the new content notes is that there is indeed intended only to have 1 last new tier. From then gear itself wouldn’t change but the infusions will get stronger and stronger ones. Maybe normal pve will remain static (after ascended upgrade) but dungeons will get harder and harder.

I am not too excited about the new update since it meant all the exotics in my bank just became the old rares. Nevertheless, i will be continuing and see how it goes. Its just a game after all.

All this negative reaction is not without its merit though. Anet wouldn’t stop the update since its already made and announced and after the first time, it will be easier for Anet to make a second or a third additional tier. But the negative reaction will make them think twice.

Renegadeimp.8439:

It seems their obsession with becoming an ‘e-sport’ is dominating over them actually making a solid and fun game. Hence all the nonsensical nerfs to pve that come directly from pvp.

Prime example? Greatsword guardian spec. They pretty much gutted it down to an auto attack spec.

Its not like this is the first game to gut PVE for the sake of PVP… that always happens if your game is produced by Blizzard, Trion, Bioware… its life bro

CETheLucid.3964:

Amra.6028:

BioWare.
Mythic.
Blizzard.

Do I need to continue?

And your point is?

Anet hasn’t joined those ranks. We have Anet today because they parted from Blizzard.

They all had this “integrity” and trust. Now see where they are.

God knows there have never been games that ever existed in which anyone played “just for fun” and heaven forbid an MMO developer ever strive to make a game that’s about that instead of carrot-on-a-stick.

Cyric.7485:

GADefence.5634:

“this argument is in the realm of fanatical over reaction with a dash of elite fanboism and a whole bunch of I dont know.”

https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/linsey-murdock-unveils-new-high-end-ascended-gear/

Notice the picture from ANet? The picture with an Ascended ring, that is better then the exotic ring?

The picture from ANet. The one that says “Yep this is what an Ascended item is”.

Our posts may be fanboy, but yours reeks of ignorance.

Quoting you mainly for the link and in regards to people spazzing out about being forced into a gear treadmill. People are seriously losing their minds over this barely even worth mentioning improvement? I must be missing something because looking at that picture of the Ascended beside the Exotic, I can’t comprehend what’s up with all this GW2 doomsday talk. For that specific example shown, you gain 5 additional Power/Precision and 3% more Magic Find… and that’s considered a gear treadmill? Excuse me while I LMFAO at this. I remember playing an Assassin in Aion (pre-everyone gets a stunbreaker) and barely even having blues but still wrecking people with yellows. Same goes for GW2, having a bunch of cheap masterwork/rares didn’t stop me from strutting my stuff all over WvW and dungeons.

That little rant aside, I hardly see how this affects anything in the gear treadmill department unless you’re a neurotic min/maxer.

When you compair (http://www.gw2db.com/items/71372-bagh-nakh) to (http://www.gw2db.com/items/58008-ruby-orichalcum-ring) and (http://www.gw2db.com/items/26447-exquisite-beryl-jewel-s). Then you compair (http://www.gw2db.com/items/58008-ruby-orichalcum-ring) and (http://www.gw2db.com/items/26447-exquisite-beryl-jewel-s) to (http://www.gw2db.com/items/58001-ruby-mithril-ring) and (http://www.gw2db.com/items/26410-beryl-orb-s) you see that from exotic to ascended its a difference of +7, +5, +3, +3, +1%, +1% which is a total of 18 point stat boost with a 2% boost to crit damage. Where as from rare to exotic its a +8, +6, +5, +1, +1% which is a total of a 20 point stat boost with a 1% crit damage boost. This is going to be basically the same difference you see from rare to exotic which is a noticeable difference.

Why can’t you people play every other kittening game out there that already suits your needs.

Why can’t you understand the people complaining now are doing so because they were promised a different game?

The reason they’ve introduced gear-grind has nothing to do with the methodology of the original game not working.

People would still have participated in the Lost Shores if there wasn’t Ascended gear to get. Simply because it’s new content and something different.

People would have still done Fractals since they’re better designed than any other dungeon in the game… and later levels have better rewards.

The reason they introduce the new gear-grind has EVERYTHING to do with wanting to increase the “market appeal” of Guild Wars. I mean, if it works for Warcraft (and they’ve still got millions of players after all these years)… Then it should work for Guild Wars 2, right?

They’re trying to replicate Warcraft with a F2P mentality… But they’re going to fail. Because Blizzard has far more money than ArenaNet and far more experience at this type of gameplay.

They should have stuck with what they knew.

Minos.5168:

The reason they’ve introduced gear-grind has nothing to do with the methodology of the original game not working.

People would still have participated in the Lost Shores if there wasn’t Ascended gear to get. Simply because it’s new content and something different.

People would have still done Fractals since they’re better designed than any other dungeon in the game… and later levels have better rewards.

The reason they introduce the new gear-grind has EVERYTHING to do with wanting to increase the “market appeal” of Guild Wars. I mean, if it works for Warcraft (and they’ve still got millions of players after all these years)… Then it should work for Guild Wars 2, right?

They’re trying to replicate Warcraft with a F2P mentality… But they’re going to fail. Because Blizzard has far more money than ArenaNet and far more experience at this type of gameplay.

They should have stuck with what they knew.

Yes, and tried to carve out their own niche. That is where success comes from, and this game was primed for it.

The video game industry is plagued by incompetent high level decision makers who think the best way to have a successful product is over-zealously trying to obtain the #1 spot by copying the game occupying that spot, which is almost guaranteed to fail hard.

Go back to whatever treadmill grind trash you crawled out of. Probably Warcraft …

showatt.9413:

nachtnebel.9168:

Pandemic.3516:

the only reason is because people kitten about wanting new content then want to kitten even more when its released because its not “exactly what they want”.

if we didn’t have a power creep when new content was released people would fly through it in a day or two and complain when there is nothing to do again, a power creep gives the dev atleast a few weeks even months before the excessive whining starts on the forums.

Besides that this concept worked very welle for GW1 for over 7 years. There are a lot of players form the old GW1 community here and they don’t complain about content being easy accessible.

all I see in these forums are whiners, what happened to loving the game in the BWEs?

Well, it seems like this game isn’t anymore what it was during the BWEs. If Arena Net had told us back then what they were up to we had told them that we don’t like it.

I feel sorry for whoever monitors the forums, must make them feel real good about there game when all they see if people whinging, bugs are fair enough but when people start going nuts over new content… it really doesn’t give them much incentive to release new stuff if all there going to get is more hate.

I thinkg the old community doesn’t count a power creep to be new content. We are happy to get a new dungeon, we just don’t like the gear treadmill and gating that comes with it.

We, we, we….

Sorry, but if people aren’t getting bored there’s no way Anet would re-evaluate their entire design philosophy.

When it comes to game design, especially if its a ‘fundamental’ design philosophy, game developers wouldn’t even touch it just because a few people are whining. Do people whine about Dark Soul being too hard? Yes. Did From Soft release an easy mode? No.

Why?

Because their game’s popular as hell and there’s simply isn’t the need.
Tell you what if Dark Soul is difficult to the point where people aren’t buying the game and new cash (player) aren’t rolling in, you can expect an easy mode to come out in a matter of month.

Have a little sympathy for game developers.
Especially a competent one who actively keep their players updated like Anet.

Sales aren’t meeting their expectation. People are getting bored. And active player must have reflected it to a point they HAD to try something new.

Either you display a little understanding and sympathy and accept the change, help improvise the change instead of endlessly chanting “THIS ISN”T WHAT YOU PROMISED" , and pray that Anet could earn some of the popularity they had at launch so they don’t have to try something worse -

Or don’t. And keep feeling betrayed.
Because the game is moving on. Changes are coming. Nothing you do will stop it.

you kinda contradict yourself there. the point from your post is exactly what people are complaining about.

Comparing and saying that their developer didn’t release an easy mode for Dark Souls is commendable and then saying that ArenaNet DID the right thing by giving in to the cries of people that WANTED gear progression, doesn’t really make sense.

By YOUR logic, ArenaNet shouldn’t have ever started vertical progression BECAUSE it’s not what their game is about and sticking to what they believe in was the right thing to do. However, to please people who would leave after a week of obtaining the gear with highest numbers, they have sacrificed the majority of their true supporters.

This is a business and this is apparently a change meant to boost sales. However i can assure you that the negative reputation they got right now won’t go away. I am prepared to jump ship when i feel i have completed my character(s) and i got my $60 worth. Since Halloween i won’t be buying any more gems. I am not interested in a gear progression game, nor am i interested in dungeons/raiding and this is clearly the direction the game is going for.
You can say “give them time/they said the gear will be available from crafting etc etc”. Thank you, but no thank you. YOU can wait and see what they do to the game while i go do something else and invest my money in a much more rewarding experience.

Because this seems like throwing money transactions into the Mystic Anet.

World of Charrcraft

They could just give those items free if player have played enough WvW.