Guild Wars 2

BaconCatTheGreasy.9542:

Please don’t pick up kegs. At least half the people ignore you and pick up kegs.
Please range Warden 3. One platform always wipes because they melee.
So on and so forth.

Why do players in this game have such a problem listening to orders? In games such as Eve Online, if a Commander tells you to do something people actually listen.

because they are casuals or trolls with anti-authoritarian education lol

Greyhound.2058:

What does ‘range Warden 3’ mean? Perhaps not everyone speaks MMO-speak.

Maybe this example isn’t that bad, but most ‘orders’ I see in this kind of content are totally incomprehensible to many of us. For some reason I don’t have much of a problem with it in wvw, it seems to be in open world events like Teq and OoM that you get people giving incomprehensible commands and then getting shouty with everyone for not carrying them out. Honestly, I just think ‘Huhh??’ half the time I see these ‘orders’.

I’ll agree that sometimes the slang gets exclusive. In WvW I look at Team and Map and I see directions to go defend X location but it uses a shorthand name for the location like “Hills” and I have to spend time panning my map around trying to figure out where that is. Or they ask for siege on Y and don’t say what sort of siege.

But in the Marionette fight and the Wurm fight people are typically gathering for 30 minutes or more in advance. Map chat is chock full of explanations of the fight mechanics. People are willing to explain the terms to anyone that actually asks. So if Map says “remember, range Warden 3,” you can say “What do you mean by that?” And then someone will explain “When fighting to break the 3rd chain, you’re facing a boss that hurts in melee if you don’t know what you’re doing, so use a ranged weapon and stay away from the boss while avoiding its bombs and the marionette aoe’s.”

If you don’t know what Warden 3 is, you’ll get people willing to explain the sequence of bosses you fight to break each of the 5 chains. Etc.

As to why people don’t always mindlessly follow a Commander’s orders, well. Sometimes we actually know the fight well enough to know the Commander’s goofing it up. Like the one that ordered Lane 1 to gather at the spawn point ready to fight champs … when we needed to be at the gate and ready for it to open in the first 30 seconds. If they demonstrate knowledge of the fight in advance, and if there’s overall coordination needed, a single source of command can improve things dramatically. If not, then why should we do what they say simply because they have an icon?

I say that as someone who loves a good raid leader and is very happy when clear commands are coming to form a mass of people into an effective team.

A commander tag is there for a reason. Otherwise WvW, World bosses, etc
wouldn’t be that organized. I’d say 90% of commander tags purchased were because those people wanted to help ad lead other people and they know what they are doing when they tag up. Yes, they paid to get it but 100g is still a big chunk of gold to be spending on just a tag. It also means that they’ve spent a good amount of time in the game and 90% is imo a safe bet that you are doing the right thing by following them and listening to them. You could say that you can make 100g pretty quickly but almost everyone is going to get optimal gear and things they want for their character before they spend that much on a tag. I mean what do you get out of IG boring the commander? An unorganized chaotic fight. What do you get by listening and following them? A much larger percent at success and organization. I think that choosing to not follow a commander because all they did was spend some gold for it is extremely shallow when all it does is guarantee a much higher rate at organization and success. The comments in this thread alone show how most of the forum community is, which is a bunch of people who want everything their way and are extremely selfish. Buy yourself a tag if you feel that way. Its only 100g right? I don’t even have a tag.

EDIT: and obviously everyone is taking the thread title the wrong way because he said “ordered”. You all know that you can’t be “ordered” in this game, all a commander says is obviously a suggestion. I would be kind of aggravated as well if o were telling people how to have the best chance at success, cause that’s what everyone wants is success, and nobody gives it a chance.

Random fact of the day world bosses and wvw aren’t organized because there’s some blue chip. If that were actually true you wouldn’t see smaller groups wiping much larger groups in wvw from time to time. Any real organization is due a voice chat program, which do you need a commander tag… nope you can run around with a call target on your head and have the same effect.

LOL if they spent 100G for a tag they know what they are doing, if they are wielding multiple legendaries they must be extremely knowledgeable, and if they paid $$ for gems to convert to gold and buy a tag well… thats it they are the elite of the elite.

Your nearly a year to late mate, I bought my tag with the left overs after making a legendary….just cuz.

LOL in the wise words of Ace Ventura " how selfish of us, lets do all the things that YOU want to do"

echo.2053:

Random fact of the day world bosses and wvw aren’t organized because there’s some blue chip. If that were actually true you wouldn’t see smaller groups wiping much larger groups in wvw from time to time. Any real organization is due a voice chat program, which do you need a commander tag… nope you can run around with a call target on your head and have the same effect.

LOL if they spent 100G for a tag they know what they are doing, if they are wielding multiple legendaries they must be extremely knowledgeable, and if they paid $$ for gems to convert to gold and buy a tag well… thats it they are the elite of the elite.

Your nearly a year to late mate, I bought my tag with the left overs after making a legendary….just cuz.

LOL in the wise words of Ace Ventura " how selfish of us, lets do all the things that YOU want to do"

I don’t know what server you play on but more than half the people in my WvW don’t listen to the people who tell them to go on team speak. They all just follow the tag. So that’s bullkitten and you know it. If there weren’t tags then WvW would be a mess. Most people are too lazy to get on ts or download it. They see a tag and follow it. Not to mention almost ALL world boss events are done without ts and are following and listening to the tag. The only ones I can think of that people go on TS for are Tea and the Wurm and that’s probably only half. Stop trolling.

You missed the whole point, what your considering organization is merely a blob throwing bodies hoping that its has more then the opponent. IMO the tag is only there as a beacon for where to run back to once you’ve died.

All those yaks must of shown up because wvw is just chock full of solo roamers right??? With all that organization that the tags brings it should of been easy to wipe two measly tagless groups right?

It’s a good idea to delegate command in a large, chaotic scenario to a few individuals. Of course that requires people to accept this command and nobody will take you seriously if you think they’ll just listen to you without question. And of course, it’s never your own fault.

There’s also a lot of nonsense around here about having to “earn” a commander tag. In practice, there’s just no objective criteria in this game that is sufficient to tell if someone is capable of leading. If you say anything about wvw rank, please go back and keep slamming the “1” key. It’s even possible that a good player is a bad leader. A tag is merely a tool and fact is from what I’ve seen most commanders do a good job and the quality of their job merits the appropriate respect, so there shouldn’t be any nonsense about “omg you can buy it” and trying to devalue whatever good work has been done. Then again, so many around here are so envious, I wouldn’t be surprised if there was just some jealousy over a 100g prop. I suppose we could use a more PC tag and just call it “volunteer” or whatever. When I see 20 idiots tag up I sorta just chuckle and don’t feel “wah wah, you’re not better than me! You can’t tell me what to do! You just bought that tag!” And what do you know? I noticed when things go south, it’s not always because the commander sucks, but it’s inevitably accompanied by a bunch of backseat drivers with whiners and the later two ruins things far more. But hey, being a commander costs 100g, being a complete kitten costs 0. I really love it when people spend time in chat berating people when they could have used it to actually do something.

I can summarize most of these replies, unironically, and thus tragically hilarious, with the all-encompassing mantra of GW2:

I play how I want

echo.2053:

Simple 100game gold back to the game for a silly blue icon doesn’t entitle you to respect.

Lol isn’t it funny when an event succeeds " oh I’m such a knowledgable great commander it’s because of me that it happened" but when an event fails " you guys are complete idiots why didn’t you listen to me it’s all your fault". If your going to demand obedience then take full responsibility. You say that you were knowledgeable in said event, you were in a leadership position, why did YOU fail the event by not keeping control of others? A good commander follows scripted attacks, a great commander plans for whatever uncertainties that will occur.

Going off the general attitude you have here I can only imagine what your map chat must of been like. The more you try to become an abusive dictator the more belligerent I become.

On the last note I do like the idea of getting paid to follow. I’m for hire 15g world boss, 2 g for reg event. Paid upfront and I keep drops.

This is an an example of what I call an uneducated response.

A commander can give instructions (often like do not do XYZ- we do not have time to explain during an event. Just do it or ask why after the event in a pm – examples [Karka eggs don’t kill at Kiel after the Champ is down at Southsun, fght on the steps during grenth, waypoint if dead at Teq, don’t look at Lyssa when corrupt gaze is up]).

It is down to You the players to follow the commanders if you want success – especially high end stuff [Wurm, Teq]. It is not the commanders fault alone if the map fails- there are 100+ other people there.

A commander cannot:
Control others – that is the individuals responsibility. If players do there own stuff it often hurts the entire event (esp at Teq). I can give so many examples of where people have hurt various events as they don’t understand what the mechanisms of the event are.
Guarantee Success – it is only the players following and helping which can help guarantee success at an event. If it fails start asking questions what can be done better.? Don’t be abusive towards the commander he is trying to bring you success.

A commander can:
Act as a focal point for people to rally around
Act as an information base for players to ask questions or learn more about the event
Sometimes be very short with instructions (Don’t do XYZ) during an event – just follow it. Ask after the event why ! (Commanders often don’t have time to type long explanations during an event).

A player should be respectful of all others including players, commanders etc.
Having an attitude problem of not wanting to respect a commander (who has put good money down for it and is risking a lot by pinning up) and just “do my own thing” often hurts everyone in the map – it does not help.

If someone doesn’t understand what is “ranged”, “what is a pin” or some other instruction – then ask in map chat. Others can help explain so that you will have a higher likelihood of success

I know there are plenty of people who take orders every day at work and have a major problem with superior people (The boss) and want to just blow off steam in-game and do there own thing or take it out on the commander (they don’t like there boss at work and will take it out on the commander). If you want to do that then please don’t come to high end stuff and expect to be carried.

I personally don’t go “look at me – you won due to me pinning up” – I try to thank the people that were there who helped set everything up and try to improve things each time (failed, bad and good runs). I also try to delegate as one person cannot do every job at a 100+ person encounter (eg Teq).

On a final note: All world bosses are getting upgraded in difficulty
This will mean the current meta of rolling from one world boss to the next will slow down as co-ordination will be required to win stuff like Teq does. I personally cannot wait for this to happen and Shatterer, Jormag, Golem, Karka, etc all require a bit of working together in a map rather than just zerging it.
Teq was the test (first boss) – so if you can’t be asked to organise (or volunteer for groups of stuff) and just want to sit back and enjoy the free ride it will soon be over.

Those commanders will be pinning up again to help with the new content.
You have a choice to work with them and learn the new mechanics.

Young Somalia.1706:

I can summarize most of these replies, unironically, and thus tragically hilarious, with the all-encompassing mantra of GW2:

I play how I want

And fail frequently, I’ll bet. You and your ilk are probably the first to go rushing to Dulfy when you can’t work things out, yet will refuse actual live on-the-spot information through kitten stubbornness.

People like OP is the reason price for commander should be 1000g + number of player recommendations (some recommendation system in dungeons/wvw/pve or something.

You don’t command people as commander. You invite them to follow you and if they don’t you can cry as much as you want and it won’t change a thing.

Throwing more insults usually brings people around.

GuzziHero.2467:

Young Somalia.1706:

I can summarize most of these replies, unironically, and thus tragically hilarious, with the all-encompassing mantra of GW2:

I play how I want

And fail frequently, I’ll bet. You and your ilk are probably the first to go rushing to Dulfy when you can’t work things out, yet will refuse actual live on-the-spot information through kitten stubbornness.

Way to spin that 180°, Watson.

I was mocking people who refuse to listen because they’re basically saying, “[I don’t have to listen to the commander,] I play how I want.”

But okay keep getting bamboozled. I pin up when I do a temple or world boss so the people in that zone who don’t camp timers get the general idea, “hey, something must be going on over there.”

how can i follow someone’s command’s when i am a better leader anytime?
i might not have a 100g tag on me but that doesn’t make me less a leader, it makes me less a gold grinder.

Young Somalia.1706:

GuzziHero.2467:

Young Somalia.1706:

I can summarize most of these replies, unironically, and thus tragically hilarious, with the all-encompassing mantra of GW2:

I play how I want

And fail frequently, I’ll bet. You and your ilk are probably the first to go rushing to Dulfy when you can’t work things out, yet will refuse actual live on-the-spot information through kitten stubbornness.

Way to spin that 180°, Watson.

I was mocking people who refuse to listen because they’re basically saying, “[I don’t have to listen to the commander,] I play how I want.”

But okay keep getting bamboozled. I pin up when I do a temple or world boss so the people in that zone who don’t camp timers get the general idea, “hey, something must be going on over there.”

Ah, having re-read it, it makes sense now. Sorry bout that.

In that case, please read my reply as “THEY are the type of people who…”

(At least, unlike many in this community, when I make a mistake I can appreciate and apologise for it, instead of blaming others).

I don’t take orders from anyone.

That said, I’ll almost always listen to commanders because I’m a casual in this game and commanders know the game better than I would ever do.

But if I disagree I won’t do what they want and I don’t care what people say.

Encounters that need to be coordinated don’t belong to the open world in the first place. When Arenanet puts them there they hurt their game and the community. Although I think the new bosses are more meant as a “How far can you get” type of encounter. Maybe it would be clearer if a defeat didn’t one-shot the whole map…

GuzziHero.2467:

Young Somalia.1706:

GuzziHero.2467:

Young Somalia.1706:

I can summarize most of these replies, unironically, and thus tragically hilarious, with the all-encompassing mantra of GW2:

I play how I want

And fail frequently, I’ll bet. You and your ilk are probably the first to go rushing to Dulfy when you can’t work things out, yet will refuse actual live on-the-spot information through kitten stubbornness.

Way to spin that 180°, Watson.

I was mocking people who refuse to listen because they’re basically saying, “[I don’t have to listen to the commander,] I play how I want.”

But okay keep getting bamboozled. I pin up when I do a temple or world boss so the people in that zone who don’t camp timers get the general idea, “hey, something must be going on over there.”

Ah, having re-read it, it makes sense now. Sorry bout that.

In that case, please read my reply as “THEY are the type of people who…”

(At least, unlike many in this community, when I make a mistake I can appreciate and apologise for it, instead of blaming others).

No big deal.

My actual favorite place to use the pin is AC path 3, burrow event; not many people know the spawn locations of all 15 burrows, so it can be a lot cleaner when people know where to preemptively be striking the next burrow rather than running around looking for it, allowing it to be up for too long, spawns too many adds, can’t get OOC for might stack rotations (Warrior) etc. I have the pin on two characters just because it’s the nicest to have for an event such as that.

Bearhugger.4326:

I don’t take orders from anyone.
Encounters that need to be coordinated don’t belong to the open world in the first place. When Arenanet puts them there they hurt their game and the community. Although I think the new bosses are more meant as a “How far can you get” type of encounter. Maybe it would be clearer if a defeat didn’t one-shot the whole map…

ANET put them out there for a reason.
Marionette is there to educate a player base how to play better (lots of people have sub-optimal builds) and don’t understand basic things like ranged or melee.

Events should require co-ordination and bringing people together rather than the mentality of just turn up and Zerg it. The Zerg mentality leads to failures at other events in the future – where a commander will issue instructions (some look at this as orders).

If you don’t like the instructions – try it first before doing your own thing. You may be surprised by the results and what can happen when a map full of people helps out.

If you want high end stuff with small parties that is Dungeons or FoTM. World bosses need commanders and/or organisation as a focal point.

I personally have no problem following commanders or leading when I pin up (yes – I’m a commander on multiple toons). Sometimes it’s great to see how others organise an event differently than you do.

TPMN.1483:

This is an an example of what I call an uneducated response.

Really ? And people wonder why some players are not inclined to follow those who purchase their symbols of leadership.

TPMN.1483:

I can give so many examples of where people have hurt various events as they don’t understand what the mechanisms of the event are.

I, and others I am sure, can give so many examples where commanders have hurt event success. Remember that getting a Commander tag did not require any knowledge of a given event or of the game, just a credit card. “Do as I say because I have a Visa card (or can borrow my father’s),” is a ludicrous demand. Respect as a leader is earned.

TPMN.1483:

Don’t be abusive towards the commander he is trying to bring you success.

I would rephrase that as, “don’t be abusive towards anyone,” followed by, “he might be trying to bring you success, but who knows, could be attempting a mass troll.” It has happened. Again, respect as a leader is earned.

TPMN.1483:

A commander can:
Act as a focal point for people to rally around
Act as an information base for players to ask questions or learn more about the event
Sometimes be very short with instructions (Don’t do XYZ) during an event – just follow it. Ask after the event why ! (Commanders often don’t have time to type long explanations during an event).

This has nothing specifically to do with having a Commander tag in GW2. Having spent a few bucks on a Commander tag does not make one’s instructions any better than anyone else’s.

TPMN.1483:

A player should be respectful of all others including players, commanders etc.
Having an attitude problem of not wanting to respect a commander

There is a huge difference between respecting someone and following their orders. One who defines respect as subservience deserves any subsequent disrespect.

BaconCatTheGreasy.9542:

Please don’t pick up kegs. At least half the people ignore you and pick up kegs.
Please range Warden 3. One platform always wipes because they melee.
So on and so forth.

Why do players in this game have such a problem listening to orders? In games such as Eve Online, if a Commander tells you to do something people actually listen.

Sorry, what? I wasn’t listening.

Ashen. - it’s easy to quote bits of text out of context in a long post.

English understanding may also be different – being respectful = don’t be abusive.
If a commander is doing something wrong and you know more – help them out and explain what they need to know.
I do this also !

Help people understand what needs to happen – that person is taking a big risk by pinning up. I have often helped along side new commanders (such as Balthazar chain) to get people to follow a pin (that may not know how to do the final push and keep NPCs alive).

I would rather help train a commander who may be doing something wrong and help them out rather than take an attitude they need to earn my respect.

Competent commanders know what they’re doing, are always polite and professional, stay calm when things get tough and inspire others to succeed through the example of their own success. The best commanders in this game have more trouble getting people to stop following them than convincing them to listen.

Incompetent commanders insult and denigrate others, then whine, complain and point fingers when they fail. They are invariably unreceptive to honest appraisals of their obvious shortcomings, which is why they do not improve and remain perpetually frustrated and unsuccessful.

Failures of leadership are failures to lead.

Those who fail to lead are not leaders.

Keeping these things in mind makes discussions like these more contructive.

TPMN.1483:

Ashen. - it’s easy to quote bits of text out of context in a long post.

I will have to take your word for that as it is not something I have done.

TPMN.1483:

English understanding may also be different – being respectful = don’t be abusive.
If a commander is doing something wrong and you know more – help them out and explain what they need to know.
I do this also !

Help people understand what needs to happen – that person is taking a big risk by pinning up. I have often helped along side new commanders (such as Balthazar chain) to get people to follow a pin (that may not know how to do the final push and keep NPCs alive).

I would rather help train a commander who may be doing something wrong and help them out rather than take an attitude they need to earn my respect.

Not following a commander’s orders or instructions =/= being abusive or disrespectful (unless of course you have previously agreed to do so).

Giving orders to someone over whom you have no rightful authority = disrespectful.

If

being respectful = don’t be abusive.

then

Being disrespectful = being abusive.

Therefore

Giving orders to someone over whom you have no rightful authority = abusive ?

If people don’t follow your righteous god-given orders, try these tips:

- TYPE IN CAPSLOCK
- Swear a lot
- Abuse everyone present
- Tell everyone in /m ‘this run has failed’, at the start of it
- Tell everyone in /m they made it fail by sucking at the game
- Tell people to never come back to the event
- Yell out “UNINSTALL NOOBS!!1!1!1!!”

These simple tips will earn you the respect you deserve for having bought (not earned) your commander tag.

What a joke, assuming you have some kind of power over other people, and knowledge of the game, just because you spent a small amount of money. Bahahahaha.

thaooo.5320:

If people don’t follow your righteous god-given orders, try these tips:

- TYPE IN CAPSLOCK
- Swear a lot
- Abuse everyone present
- Tell everyone in /m ‘this run has failed’, at the start of it
- Tell everyone in /m they made it fail by sucking at the game
- Tell people to never come back to the event
- Yell out “UNINSTALL NOOBS!!1!1!1!!”

These simple tips will earn you the respect you deserve for having bought (not earned) your commander tag.

Wait…..you mean there are commanders who don’t do those things already?

I think Anet put the tag in game to point out people you shouldn’t listen to honestly. Here’s a hint commander type people: If you’re not leading your guild, you’re not leading anyone. Quit fooling yourselves.

I have a very useful suggestion for everybody that is fed up with the commanders in PvE and their attitude of being a 5 year old:
Right click → Block → Silence and Peace.

Works so wonderfully when you just block every commander tag on sight. And it makes Tyria a better place as well

Young Somalia.1706:

I can summarize most of these replies, unironically, and thus tragically hilarious, with the all-encompassing mantra of GW2:

I play how I want

Pretty much.

This thread makes me happy that I do dungeons and have an alt account, which I can lord over the people who refuse to read my LFG description.

So much unnecessary, contrarian hubbub.

I can’t help but laugh at the original post…

BaconCatTheGreasy.9542:

Please don’t pick up kegs. At least half the people ignore you and pick up kegs.
Please range Warden 3. One platform always wipes because they melee.
So on and so forth.

Why do players in this game have such a problem listening to orders? In games such as Eve Online, if a Commander tells you to do something people actually listen.

In EVE there are meaningful consequences to failure. If you had to risk the need to completely regear every time you died in guildwars 2 then people might start taking matters seriously. I’m not saying I want this changed by any stretch of the imagination, but 1.5s in terms of a personal repair fee is easy to laugh off in comparison to being responsible for losing your corp billions and billions of ISK.

The thing I don’t get is: If you don’t listen to a commander, okay, fine. But what do you do instead?

Just… something? The opposite of what he said? Or do you just press tab + 1?

I don’t know if “range Warden 2” is a good tactic or not, but I can assure you, it works better than 10 people running around like headless chicken.

Btw, sometimes you simply dont have the time to write or read an essay, sometimes you need to do stuff. “range warden 2” is by no means rude or bossy. What do you want instead?
“Hello dear people of [insert server here]. It is a lovely day to see you all gathered around this newest abbomination created by the hands of Scarlet Briar. But together I know for certain, we can defeat it! I have been told by a spy of the order/the undead souls of ascalon/a cat [choose only one] that the way to succesfully defeat the second Warden by using ranged attacks! So go ahead and good luck! (and somebody plz rezz me, I died twice while typing this…)”

TPMN.1483:

This is an an example of what I call an uneducated response.

Great job promoting player respect starting off with that

I guess I can dumb it down for you

100, 1000, or 1 million other players and yet it was YOU who chose to turn your tag on. Thus you chose to take responsibility for whatever outcome. Don’t like it? Don’t tag up.

Your right you can’t control anyone. We all bought the game and thus are entitled to play the game in whatever manner we see fit. So a commander isnt able to directly control a player he isn’t able reinforce sensitive areas of an event? For example ensuring turret operators know what they are doing, if it’s someone inexperienced that wants to give it a try , let them and keep someone close by to back up if they go down. If the event fails, do you think a great commander berates people and then makes a forum post how no one listens like they do on eve, or do they shrug it off saying good try we will get him next time. This is a game not a secondary job.

Lol guarantee success? If you wanted that why bother asking to update bosses with more mechanics increasing the chance to fail and then reacting this way when it happens. Lol it’s just ridiculous. So what if an event fails, it’s not the end of the world.

Your so keen on help improving commanders,

Is it possible that those players were afk( bathroom, getting. Drink) and missed instructions?
Or maybe they have combined chat, where dialogue flew by?
Maybe because of spam they don’t even have map chat open( must tickle your fancy knowing now that I haven’t had map chat checked since a month after the game came out)
Is it possible they didn’t have ranged weapons?
Do you think the op was happy and joyful when he made this thread or frustrated and angry?
In the state of mind you chose, do you think a intimidated newcomer would be more or less inclined to ask for an explanation? Especially how map chat is when it comes
To failure.

Yup there’s absolutely no doubt what so ever, those players were clearly troll anarchists .

Last but not least context. True meaning isn’t always transferred on the internet. My initial reaction was he may have came off as disrespectful or maybe there were other reasons. You on the other hand labeled them immediately as insubordinates apparently took extreme offense at my suggestion that respect is earned not given to the point to call it an " uneducated response" . Then you go say that players should be respectful of each other….kinda seems oddly similar to the point I was making, the only difference is yet again you try to reinforce this notion that because you spent gold then you are instantly entitled to respect.

It does not, if you still think this is true well then I challenge you to a simple game , it’s call spend your gold and money until I start caring.

orders? as in rage screaming/crying in chat until you get your way? i go out of my way to do the opposite and make them rage more lol

the problem with the majority of commanders is manners… if a commander actually turned up and said please and thank you for a change i would be more likely to follow their orders.

Flubble.8093:

orders? as in rage screaming/crying in chat until you get your way? i go out of my way to do the opposite and make them rage more lol

the problem with the majority of commanders is manners… if a commander actually turned up and said please and thank you for a change i would be more likely to follow their orders.

Yeah, it is like people don’t understand that you only lead because people allow it. No one has a right to lead, it is a contract between you and others. Currently, there is no real way to do that in PvE. Buying a blue dorito is not a contract between you and other players. It is bling. Fixing the commander system, frankly, will require a complete overhaul.

Greyhound.2058:

What does ‘range Warden 3’ mean? Perhaps not everyone speaks MMO-speak.

I think this is a much bigger factor than people realise. Unless you really immerse yourself in a lot of MMO culture/chat inside and outside the game, potentially across multiple games, too, you won’t get a lot of the slang that is used. Even outside of the slang, assume you turn up to the Marionette with no prior knowledge of the event. You don’t know its structure, you don’t know the enemies involved, you don’t know what is going to happen.

How much sense is ‘range warden 3’ going to make to you without the context you’ll only get by having a go and probably making some mistakes along the way? What does a warden look like? When does it appear? How do I know it’s the third one? Why do I need to range it?

I have a friend who logs on for an hour or two a week. They don’t read the forums, they just hop on and play. At any event like this, I have to translate the MMO-speak for her. At the better and most successful runs of events like this, map chat explains rather than dishing out context-sensitive orders wrapped up in MMO-speak.

Remember

BaconCatTheGreasy.9542:

Please don’t pick up kegs. At least half the people ignore you and pick up kegs.
Please range Warden 3. One platform always wipes because they melee.
So on and so forth.

Why do players in this game have such a problem listening to orders? In games such as Eve Online, if a Commander tells you to do something people actually listen.

Because GW2 is a game for casuals and people that do whatever they want to do. Start a guild and annex an overflow for your guild. Don’t bother trying to pug content that requires a large amount of coordination.

This is a two way problem. Solution, take this stuff out of open-world.

People who dont like to coordinate or be team players can miss out and do whatever they want.
People who want raid-type structure and organization can do this stuff in instances, with a command structure and orders.

Both parties are just as guilty as the other for being ignorant and having attitudes towards the other. Finger-pointing and laying blame at each other here does nothing.
Frankly, it’s on ArenaNet for putting this stuff in the open-world.
This goes hand in hand with the ‘not knowing’ and context argument. If you don’t know and did not read up beforehand……you should not be there. Its on Anet for making these things accessible in lower level areas for anyone to walk into.

People are doing the best they can. Commanders are trying to get people to do whats needed and are kitten on. People who dont want to be told what to do are also trying to what they need to to make a successful event and are also kitten on. Its a glorified mess they put in game and all of us are just trying to make the mess they dumped on us successful.

thaooo.5320:

If people don’t follow your righteous god-given orders, try these tips:

- TYPE IN CAPSLOCK
- Swear a lot
- Abuse everyone present
- Tell everyone in /m ‘this run has failed’, at the start of it
- Tell everyone in /m they made it fail by sucking at the game
- Tell people to never come back to the event
- Yell out “UNINSTALL NOOBS!!1!1!1!!”

These simple tips will earn you the respect you deserve for having bought (not earned) your commander tag.

I too recommend this. It is the most popular style to lead so it must be working great, right?

Also if the situation is really serious, like some selfish noobs killing a champ in queensdale at wrong time, you can try insulting their mothers for a while. That should teach them who is the boss around here and what being a commander means!

This game was sold on player freedom and casual play. Players were sold on the idea of being able to login and do what they want to do without joining some raid group and following some guy’s orders.

So, the majority of the players prefer to do their own random thing, and thus, open world raids won’t work because GW2 players have been conditioned from launch to expect easy content that they can random button press their way through.

timidobserver.7925:

BaconCatTheGreasy.9542:

Please don’t pick up kegs. At least half the people ignore you and pick up kegs.
Please range Warden 3. One platform always wipes because they melee.
So on and so forth.

Why do players in this game have such a problem listening to orders? In games such as Eve Online, if a Commander tells you to do something people actually listen.

Because GW2 is a game for casuals and people that do whatever they want to do. Start a guild and annex an overflow for your guild. Don’t bother trying to pug content that requires a large amount of coordination.

This is an excellent way to make the situation worse in the long term.

What is the problem? There are communication issues regarding coordination of player actions in large groups.

How do you fix that problem? I can tell you hiding in an overflow will not fix that problem.

This leaves us with the question, are we okay with the status quo? Do we want to hide from each other out of fear?

People have conflicting expectations. The players who play all the time rush to new content and figure it out. They then expect everyone to know what to do, or to understand quickly-given directions using the “shorthand” that makes sense to them. Other players don’t rush, and expect to have the same fun of figuring the content out that the rushers did. The problem comes in when the game throws both together.

There are also likely many other groups, at least one of which expects to alt-tab to the Olympics online and return to see what was in the chest.

Hope this clears that up for you.

timidobserver.7925:

This game was sold on player freedom and casual play. Players were sold on the idea of being able to login and do what they want to do without joining some raid group and following some guy’s orders.

So, the majority of the players prefer to do their own random thing, and thus, open world raids won’t work because GW2 players have been conditioned from launch to expect easy content that they can random button press their way through.

But I think that’s fine. They can keep their ways in 90% of the game’s content that hasn’t changed, and be met with a failure all the time in that small part of the game should they fail to adapt.

Nageth.5648:

timidobserver.7925:

BaconCatTheGreasy.9542:

Please don’t pick up kegs. At least half the people ignore you and pick up kegs.
Please range Warden 3. One platform always wipes because they melee.
So on and so forth.

Why do players in this game have such a problem listening to orders? In games such as Eve Online, if a Commander tells you to do something people actually listen.

Because GW2 is a game for casuals and people that do whatever they want to do. Start a guild and annex an overflow for your guild. Don’t bother trying to pug content that requires a large amount of coordination.

This is an excellent way to make the situation worse in the long term.

What is the problem? There are communication issues regarding coordination of player actions in large groups.

How do you fix that problem? I can tell you hiding in an overflow will not fix that problem.

This leaves us with the question, are we okay with the status quo? Do we want to hide
from each other out of fear?

No, the issue is being unable to finish the wurm due to uncooperative players.

Taking a group of players that will listen and get into voice coms to an overflow is the perfect solution to the problem.

Okay, we have a disagreement about what the problem is. Lets try to find common definition so we can talk about this. What do you mean by uncooperative players? Can you define what you mean by this and give examples?

Nageth.5648:

Okay, we have a disagreement about what the problem is. Lets try to find common definition so we can talk about this. What do you mean by uncooperative players? Can you define what you mean by this and give examples?

Uncooperative players is just one thing that contributes to the problem. The key problem is being unable to complete the content.

The solution consists of the most efficient ways to go about completing the content.

Okay, so what is your definition for completing content? What prevents completion? what are some examples of incomplete content and what factors do you think contributed to each event?

Nageth.5648:

Okay, so what is your definition for completing content? What prevents completion? what are some examples of incomplete content and what factors do you think contributed to each event?

Definition = when the little event completed dialog comes up and the chest pops up on your screen.

Example of incomplete content = When the event failed dialog pops up.

The factors are pretty irrelevant. All that matters is finding an efficient way to solve the problem of being unable to complete the event.

Can you provide some more specifics? If you do not wish to find real problems and attempt come up with solutions that is fine too. Everyone needs to vent now and again. But if this is only for catharsis, then I would like to know so I can leave you to it.

Nageth.5648:

Can you provide some more specifics? If you do not wish to find real problems and attempt come up with solutions that is fine too. Everyone needs to vent now and again. But if this is only for catharsis, then I would like to know so I can leave you to it.

I already came up with a real solution. Gather a group of those that will listen, get into voice coms, and do what you say. Go away from pugs, and finish the content.

That is the only solution that a player can implement. Players have no control over other players. They do have a small amount of control over who they do the event with.

Any true solution would have to be introduced by Anet.

And I disagreed and wanted to understand where the disagreement was coming from. I wanted to understand your point of view. Sorry that you don’t really care if I understand. I’ll leave you to your catharsis.