Guild Wars 2

This baffles me,2 guys of the same guild kicked 3 pugs,including me in fotm map 3 half way thru without warning.I take a screenshot whenever i’m suspicious of their activity,its like they want to sell the slots or something.

Party Vote Kick should be checked by all current members in the party to prevent abuse.Fractals can be long and tedious,this shouldn’t happen.

If they kicked you without reason or a disagreement in party chat, it’s considered griefing and can be reported to a GM if you submit a ticket.

Ponzu.4570:

This baffles me,2 guys of the same guild kicked 3 pugs,including me in fotm map 3 half way thru without warning.I take a screenshot whenever i’m suspicious of their activity,its like they want to sell the slots or something.

Party Vote Kick should be checked by all current members in the party to prevent abuse.Fractals can be long and tedious,this shouldn’t happen.

Yup.

I was doing Sorrow yesterday, got to end of p3 and get kicked because “lazy afk he do nothing”

Except like, not only am I not “afk” cause, you know, I’ve been talking in chat this whole time(and MOVING). But I’m pretty sure I also carried them thru several parts.
Got kicked right before completion, that’s bullkitten. Waste of my time.

Because they “felt” like it?

if we required 4 votes to kick the 5th, that 5th would rarely ever be kicked. either because the 4th wasn’t paying attention, or they didn’t agree they should be, or they are the 5th’s friend, etc.

Motion made, seconded, and approved.

I think it should check how many are presently in the party, and the required number of votes should be equate to a ‘majority’. In a group of 5, at least 3 votes. In a group of 3 or 4, at least 2.

Sadly, this issue has existed for an extremely long time. It was very common around the Fractured update, when people would post a LFG listing and then boot out the 3 PUG members to invite guild mates to quickly and easily get them their fractal levels. If they have not done anything about abusive grouping practices by now it is pretty clear that this just isn’t much of an issue for them.

This is why I don’t think any random dungeon finder should have a kick feature. I’ve seen several examples of it being abused: kicking people to not share loot, kicking certain classes, kicking people for not linking their gear, etc. However, I’ve never seen a dungeon finder trolled. Most people join to complete the dungeon, not to cause trouble.

I think if you have a problem with someone in a dungeon finder, YOU should be the one to leave. If you want to have a say in who you group with, their level, their gear, class, and loot, then make your own groups. A dungeon finder should be what you get is what you get..period.

I think a better system would be for a kick to require a majority vote (unless only 2 people in the party). So to kick the 5th, you would need 3 of the 4 other member to approve. The 4th would need 2 of the remaining 3. The third would need both the others. Kicking the 2nd is the exception, because a majority is impossible.

It’s not perfect, but better than 2 people kicking the whole party.

FYI the party only wiped once at Subject 6,i’d say we were above average,no reason to kick at all.

I totally agree. 2 isn’t even a majority.

I also think the person who says that LFG tools shouldn’t allow kicks in the first place has some very good points (though they also need to fix the “whole dungeon resets if opener leaves” problem that’s been around forever). You can’t even QQ about “ninjas” here, since all loot drops are individual.

Ponzu.4570:

This baffles me,2 guys of the same guild kicked 3 pugs,including me in fotm map 3 half way thru without warning.I take a screenshot whenever i’m suspicious of their activity,its like they want to sell the slots or something.

Party Vote Kick should be checked by all current members in the party to prevent abuse.Fractals can be long and tedious,this shouldn’t happen.

So a system in which you need all votes for a kick can’t be exploited?
What if 2 friends decide to join your run and begin ruining it – can you kick them? No.
What’s left to do ? abandon your run?

The only solutions here are:

1)Play with people you know and trust.

2)Make sure that if nr.1 can’t be attained that you are the instance owner – this will deter most randoms and pugs from kicking you since they’ll also lose progress.

Follow these 2 rules and you’ll be fine 90% of the time.

Arclight.9437:

This is why I don’t think any random dungeon finder should have a kick feature. I’ve seen several examples of it being abused: kicking people to not share loot, kicking certain classes, kicking people for not linking their gear, etc. However, I’ve never seen a dungeon finder trolled. Most people join to complete the dungeon, not to cause trouble.

I think if you have a problem with someone in a dungeon finder, YOU should be the one to leave. If you want to have a say in who you group with, their level, their gear, class, and loot, then make your own groups. A dungeon finder should be what you get is what you get..period.

So if your run is going well or decent – and the newest of the new or baddest of the bad joins in via the LFG ( even though you advertise for experienced players only) you should have no means of stopping him ruining your run except for maybe abandoning it and starting again?

I’m sorry but that’s a really , really bad idea.

If you want to go down the " if you want certain gear/ AP/ level/ class" get your own then let’s also have the dungeon finder have filters that I can tick and determine who can and cannot get in my run.

That would make things better. Just tick a few boxes and only those you want in the run can get in and those you don’t want don’t. But I guess this idea doesn’t fit with the people who just want in on runs people don’t want them in.

Harper.4173:

So if your run is going well or decent – and the newest of the new or baddest of the bad joins in via the LFG ( even though you advertise for experienced players only) you should have no means of stopping him ruining your run except for maybe abandoning it and starting again?

I’m sorry but that’s a really , really bad idea.

If you want to go down the " if you want certain gear/ AP/ level/ class" get your own then let’s also have the dungeon finder have filters that I can tick and determine who can and cannot get in my run.

That would make things better. Just tick a few boxes and only those you want in the run can get in and those you don’t want don’t. But I guess this idea doesn’t fit with the people who just want in on runs people don’t want them in.

Like I said, I have never seen any dungeon finder trolled, and I don’t consider an inexperienced player trolling, because we’ve all been there. Having patience while someone learns is part of playing an mmo. People with your complaint are usually the ones abusing the kick feature in dungeon finders, and I have seen plenty of that.

As for a filter, that won’t work, because requirements are too subjective. Experienced to one player means “not geared enough” to another. The only thing that will work for the possessive/elitist/control freak player is to group the old fashioned way.

Harper.4173:

Arclight.9437:

This is why I don’t think any random dungeon finder should have a kick feature. I’ve seen several examples of it being abused: kicking people to not share loot, kicking certain classes, kicking people for not linking their gear, etc. However, I’ve never seen a dungeon finder trolled. Most people join to complete the dungeon, not to cause trouble.

I think if you have a problem with someone in a dungeon finder, YOU should be the one to leave. If you want to have a say in who you group with, their level, their gear, class, and loot, then make your own groups. A dungeon finder should be what you get is what you get..period.

So if your run is going well or decent – and the newest of the new or baddest of the bad joins in via the LFG ( even though you advertise for experienced players only) you should have no means of stopping him ruining your run except for maybe abandoning it and starting again?

I’m sorry but that’s a really , really bad idea.

If you want to go down the " if you want certain gear/ AP/ level/ class" get your own then let’s also have the dungeon finder have filters that I can tick and determine who can and cannot get in my run.

That would make things better. Just tick a few boxes and only those you want in the run can get in and those you don’t want don’t. But I guess this idea doesn’t fit with the people who just want in on runs people don’t want them in.

Correction: People who YOU THINK shouldn’t be in or who are “newest of the new or baddest of the bad.” Not exactly an objective measure there.

And like arclight said, I have never had any LFG intentionally trolled. That doesn’t mean that it never happens, of course, but it does suggest that the problem isn’t nearly as rampant or likely to happen as you think. There will always be idiot players, you just have to deal with them just like the rest of us.

This doesn’t surprise me at all. We had to wait more than a year before even having a LFG Tool. Anything related to party management is lacking pretty bad in this game.

I have reported a similar case through a support ticket. The GM ignored my request to take action against the vote-kickers. The GM also said that the developers constantly improve the game. Which basically means there aren’t any plans to improve dungeon hosting or vote-kick abusing.

TLDR: Vote-kick abuse will be part of this game for a long time.

Chase.8415:

If they kicked you without reason or a disagreement in party chat, it’s considered griefing and can be reported to a GM if you submit a ticket.

How? There is no ticket option for griefing.

Pixelpumpkin.4608:

Chase.8415:

If they kicked you without reason or a disagreement in party chat, it’s considered griefing and can be reported to a GM if you submit a ticket.

How? There is no ticket option for griefing.

I believe one of the options (on right-click) is LFG Abuse.

yep kittenty problem, thats why i don’t do dungeons/fotm anymore.

reported such problems before, but no action was taken

It’s 2 votes because it was easier for them to code it that way. A three (or more) person vote requires a slightly more robust system that needs to store the amount of votes tallied. A two-person vote has one initiator and one finisher. Notice how it never times out unless the initiator removes it?

The system is sinfully simplistic and it was built out of the very barest of necessities. The reason they won’t just “change it to three” is because it requires them to put forth some effort.

+1 for MAJORITY (over 50% of party members) votes before kicking.

Arclight.9437:

Like I said, I have never seen any dungeon finder trolled, and I don’t consider an inexperienced player trolling, because we’ve all been there. Having patience while someone learns is part of playing an mmo. People with your complaint are usually the ones abusing the kick feature in dungeon finders, and I have seen plenty of that.

As for a filter, that won’t work, because requirements are too subjective. Experienced to one player means “not geared enough” to another. The only thing that will work for the possessive/elitist/control freak player is to group the old fashioned way.

Well that’s just based on your personal experience – there are plenty of people trolling out there. And the worst part is there’s nothing you can do about it except for kicking. You can’t report them for griefing because they can always hide behind the " i was just playing bad" excuse.

Having patience with players while they learn an MMO is part of the experience for those who choose to make it part of their experience.

Personally I’ve done my share of that – but right now I don’t have the time to teach people how to play when I’m trying to get things done. Not everyone has the luxury of time in game to be able to spend it freely teaching others things they could have looked up themselves.

Yes I consider it a gesture of good will if a player will research a dungeon/encounter before he actually goes and does it for the first time. It shows that you care about those you’ll be playing with and don’t rely on them to carry you through.

I also appreciate how you immediately categorized me as " someone who abuses the kick feature".

How do you define this abuse – I might ask you?

I’ve had situations in which people couldn’t listen to even the most basic instructions such as " stay back " or " don’t attack boss".

There are situations in which the content requires all 5 people working together and on the same page ( see cof P1 brazier part – where 4 players have to stand in specific spots while a 5th has to destroy something).

I had a CoF P1 run in which one of the people couldn’t understand to stay and defend a brazier. he didn’t say anything and nothing we typed got through to him.
Maybe he was a troll, or just asleep, or maybe there was a language barrier but the point is there was no way to progress unless he did his job and he wasn’t doing it.

Is kicking him abusive? If you think yes I might point out that him impeding our progress ( willingly or unwillingly) could also be considered a form of abuse.

I’ve had FOTM runs at PR 50 joined by people who didn’t even know what AR was – they just wanted to do fractals and saw my party then when explained they can’t come with wouldn’t leave. Was kicking them abusive?

Again we return to the core question how do you define abusive?

And why is kicking abusive?

One might say kicking is abusive because a player has spent an amount of time doing the content and then gotten no reward – so his time spent was wasted.

But if that’s the case a player that joins a run and makes it last 20 minutes longer (let’s say) is also abusing everyone else since he’s wasting their 20 minutes.

See my point?

@HandOfKane.5409 – of course it’s people I consider to be unfit to join my group – it’s MY group.

Also regarding filters – you could have objective filters such as :

-AP number
-Stat thresholds that have to be met ( ex. this much power, this much precision etc)
-AR threshold
-Level threshold
-Dungeon Master completed.
-Number of times dungeon x was completed.

And the list could go on – these are all objective.

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

I think it should check how many are presently in the party, and the required number of votes should be equate to a ‘majority’. In a group of 5, at least 3 votes. In a group of 3 or 4, at least 2.

I’d agree with this.
With only two in reality all it takes is one person wanting to kick because there is usually someone who just hits the button because it’s there.

I’m always a bit wary if there are two from same guild in fractals or Arah because you get people who kick right at the end so they can sell the spot or bring in friends.
You can report them for this though.

I hate when I am in dungeon and they want to kick a bad player in dungeon… When they kick him the whole party exit the dungeon because the bad player was leader..
Please people watch out who you kick. Dont just kick random guy. Nobody know who is the leader. Watch the movie in dungeon to see who is the leader, and then think about who are you going to kick.
People just dont care.. They just click on that to remove it from their screen.
If you dont want to kick him then there should be X button to remove that pop up on your screen…

Personally I’m happy it only requires 2 people to kick someone out of a dungeon/fractal. I’ve been doing duns multiple times with people who wouldn’t cooperate, which in return would get us killed and waste everyone’s time. Luckily, playing with friend, we were able to kick those people out. I remember kicking one of them right before the final boss in Ascalonian Catacombs. The satisfaction of kicking him out right before him getting his reward was amazing. We actually did better without him.

In your case – I feel bad for you. This thing shouldn’t be abused like that.