Guild Wars 2

So, I’m well aware of and support the idea behind automatic down leveling. You definitely do not want to be able to take a top level character into low level zones and totally dominate.

For me, though, I find that whenever I go to lower level areas, it is far more difficult for me than the level 80 areas. This seems ridiculous.

I can hold my own in the level 80 areas with very little difficulty, even taking on multiple mobs. Like 3-5 at a time.

When I go to lower level areas, I find at times I am easily killed by 2 mobs, if not one. In other lower level areas, it’s not so bad.

This seems very out of balance for me as well as inconsistent. It seems like the downlevling is not really taking into account all of the buffs/stats I have on my weapons/armor or something or certain enemies just hit me as if I don’t have armor at all. Something isn’t right.

Am I the only one that notices this?

Seriously? I havent had this issue at all. I wonder what is causing you problems.

I think that the enemies in those low level zones are just harder than the ones in the 80 zones. This doesn’t apply to all low level zones. After playing in the Norn starting areas I found that Human players have it really easy.

is your gear up to date?

if you’re level 80 with level 10 gear in a level 10 zone, the fight will be harder than a level 10 with the same gear.

i can’t be 100% sure, but i think thats how it works

Personally, I think the downscaling isn’t enough in some cases. I find myself 2-shotting nearly everything in a starting area as an 80, and it gets only marginally more difficult as I move through the maps.

Sounds like a L2P issue in your case, Fatal OEfx.

I’m gonna agree with zeromius on that…

Is your gear all Lv 80? Apparently if you’re a Lv 80 with some pieces of lv 20 armor (example), you will become worse than a Lv 20 player with Lv 20 armor, because your gear gets downscaled regardless of the actual level on it. Probably why I did so bad in my personal stories, I out-leveled my story quests but not all my gear was up to my level.

There’s an added stress or concern on costs that do effect the way I play in lower level areas.
In 80 zones, rewards cover the costs of that “Oops” moment, and often gather up several mobs and wipe them out.
In lower levels the rewards don’t scale equally to the potential costs. So I play a lot more carefully – which often results in a lowered dps.

Maybe this is also a case for yourself (OP)?

I don’t understand how gear can be the issue for some people. It seems to be percentage based, so if you’re a lv.80 wearing lv.70 gear in a lv 8 area, your gear would be effectively lv.7 – that would be a big improvement over being 10 levels behind at 80. You’d have to have gear that was like 40 levels too low for it to even begin to be a real issue.

Unless I misunderstand how the system works?

That aside.. I have no idea what the OP’s issue is, either. My experience is the opposite, too. Lower level areas are often too easy, because we don’t get downleveled fully. The level modifier of being 1-3 levels above the mobs has more of an effect than anything else I can even think of.

While the questions are well deserved, as I did not make it clear in my original post, let me just say, I’m not an idiot.

All of my gear has been maintained at top level. I have level 80 rare gear and level 80 exotic weapons. I’m somewhat of a stat-kitten (HAH I beat you auto-censor.. I kittened myself!)

As I’ve stated before, sometimes the issue only occurs for certain enemy types. In some cases it feels easier than normal, but I never see it as “too easy” unless I’m 1 on 1 with a certain mob. But even in that case, it’s never a 2 shot scenario. At the very least I’ve gotten kills on level 60 mobs with 5 or more hits. That being with GS skill 1 (to the 3rd chain), and then skill 2 (100 blades to completion). Note: I even have 70% crit with fairly high power.

I dunno.. things are odd. Perhaps it’s a class discrepancy? What are others running to see the complete opposite to my findings?

To be fair… even with high end gear, I my build leans towards glass cannon, but even with that, I should not be seeing what I’m seeing in low level areas.

Fatal OEfx.5910:

So, I’m well aware of and support the idea behind automatic down leveling. You definitely do not want to be able to take a top level character into low level zones and totally dominate.

For me, though, I find that whenever I go to lower level areas, it is far more difficult for me than the level 80 areas. This seems ridiculous.

I can hold my own in the level 80 areas with very little difficulty, even taking on multiple mobs. Like 3-5 at a time.

When I go to lower level areas, I find at times I am easily killed by 2 mobs, if not one. In other lower level areas, it’s not so bad.

This seems very out of balance for me as well as inconsistent. It seems like the downlevling is not really taking into account all of the buffs/stats I have on my weapons/armor or something or certain enemies just hit me as if I don’t have armor at all. Something isn’t right.

Am I the only one that notices this?

It’s weird. I rule in low level zones. I can take 3 or 4 veterans at the same time. And killed some champions also.

zeromius.1604:

I think that the enemies in those low level zones are just harder than the ones in the 80 zones. This doesn’t apply to all low level zones. After playing in the Norn starting areas I found that Human players have it really easy.

I play a Norn, and I 100% agree. I’m totally okay with a challenge, but man! I went to the second area of each race and the Norn one was far more difficult. Those mobs sure know how to beat your butt, no matter your stats, weapon, armor, etc. I have gotten pretty close to dying before, but I’m only at level 30 so I don’t have the best armor or weapons yet.

lookitsandrea.8531:

zeromius.1604:

I think that the enemies in those low level zones are just harder than the ones in the 80 zones. This doesn’t apply to all low level zones. After playing in the Norn starting areas I found that Human players have it really easy.

I play a Norn, and I 100% agree. I’m totally okay with a challenge, but man! I went to the second area of each race and the Norn one was far more difficult. Those mobs sure know how to beat your butt, no matter your stats, weapon, armor, etc. I have gotten pretty close to dying before, but I’m only at level 30 so I don’t have the best armor or weapons yet.

EXACTLY! I’m a Norn as well. Maybe that’s a common link?

For the above regarding multiple veteran mobs… I can do this too. I even take on champions myself as well, but only certain types. I even solo champion spiders/trolls with rarely losing half my life (circle strafe FTW), though it may take me 30-45 minutes.

But in other cases it’s ridiculous. Just last night I ran into a couple level 60-70 fire grubs and they decimated me in mere seconds. I don’t even know what happened. I tried to hit them with 100 swords and literally less than 5% of their life was affected. It was like they were vet/champion level mobs, though they were not labeled as such.

In Orr, I can take a lvl 80 Breeze Rider as well as all 5-7 lower Breeze Riders on at a single time. I intentionally aggro them all around me to whirlwind axe/GS 100 sword them to death with nary a scratch on me. That should not be possible.

For what it’s worth I’ve seen many cases where the extended buffs I get from my high end armor/weapons are simply ignored due to the downleveling. I once took my lvl 65 gear off and replaced with lvl 80 and consciously watched the stats as I swapped them in a downleveled area. I swear in some cases I only got like a +20 increase in my traits/stats, whereas I should have gotten hundreds. It truly feels as if we’re all wasting our money buying high end gear just to end up in a low level area as simply using low level armor to match the mobs would be better (and cheaper!).

I die a lot when downleveled too, and I think it’s attitude: “I’m level 78 fools, I’m just gonna run past those five trash mobs to the skill point. Oh. They followed me and now I am trapped in a cave.”

I don’t have uber gear yet, so traits are the only thing separating me from a real level 10 when down-leveled.

I like it. Keeps me on my toes.

I am not sure if this fits your case, some subzones have your level demoted to wrong level, such as you become level 52 while your enemy is 58. This happens in borders of two quite different level subzones and some caves. You would notice that the mob’s level is red because they are +5 or +6 level than you are. I have encountered 5 areas (all reported in-game) like this. If this is the case, try report the area so they can fix it.

I noticed that the tunnel at the level 65 dragon’s area was flooded with level 67/68 mobs while you are demoted to level 65, but now they are level 65/66. I hope they will fix the other areas too.

I can kill around 10 things easily solo in low level zones. Elite skills ftw

i have issues with this as well but i think i know why.

i forget very easily how little health i have and instead of paying attention to it i think i still have 6k health (lvl 52) when i only have a few hundred. i know it should be relative to in terms of damage but it doesn’t feel that way sometimes.

it’s one of the few things i think should be tuned a smidge, i’m kinda benched on the whole thing i don’t really like it but i can see why they did it, i’m just not sure i agree.

one of the reasons you deck yourself out in amazing gear is to well feel amazing like you’ve accomplished something yet this sometimes feels like your not achieving those goals, understandbly thats just one way to look at it and i like to try to see it from a different point of view at times as well.

a reason i like it though is that it presents a constant challange, but thats providing the players don’t see it as a constant chore which is just as possible.

Yeah I dunno. I don’t go in with ego, and I watch my health like a hawk. I just think the downleveling has a buggy algorithm or something.

One point to consider… I’ve fought some of the mobs on my way to 80 and I recall them being easier when I was a lower level!

yeah my idea was just a thought lol, and sometimes i know thats the case others i’m just not sure, they do at times seem unusually difficult for no obvious reason.

Ironically I think the level of the player is a red herring in this case. That is to say that some mobs are simply overtuned and the level 80 players are noticing it more because they are steamrolling most everything and then suddenly they are surprised to find that some mobs still really hurt.

The fire grubs are a perfect example. These things will smoke you if you stand in their fire breath, yet as an 80 every other mob in the zone has been easily killable, even if you just run up to their face and auto attack.

As an appropriately-levelled character in the area, you’re already expecting to play carefully because you know that a level 40 mob can easily beat a poorly-played level 38 character, so without thinking you avoid the fire breath and so the mob goes down no problem.

A level 80 wearing level 70 gear will be weaker than a level 70 wearing level 70 gear this is because it downlevels your gear a % based on your level not your gears level. So if you are very undergeared for your level you will be very weak when downleveled. If you are an 80 in all orange you will be super strong when downleveled as orange eq doesn’t exist at low levels.

Must say I’ve never had this problem. I keep my gear up to date and going to lower level zones, while it’s never a snooze-fest and you still have to be alert, it’s generally much easier.

I couldn’t disagree more with the original posters observation of feeling underpowered when down-leveled. If anything, we are far, far too powerful when scaled down to lower levels, despite the scaling. It’s nowhere near severe enough. I even started a thread about that opinion a few weeks back:

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Character-level-scaling-how-well-is-it-working/first#post87654

What’s the problem with taking a higher level char into a lower level area and dominating exactly? It’s not like you’d be able to grief people out of events or quests as all they would have to do is hit said monsters for like 1 damage to get credit…

The downleveling systems needs to be completely removed or capped at like 20 levels. As it stands right now, going into a low level area means low level drops. If the loot doesn’t scale to my top level, why should my top level scale down to like level 7 loot???

If Anet was truely concerned about making zones active, they would try to carrot as many people as possible instead of beating them with the stick.

Also, I totally agree with you OP, the downleveling system is completely unfair.

Low lvl area do drop high lvl equipments and weapons. Only Masterworks (some) and above. Anything range from White to Masterworks ( mostly ) are all low lvl equipments and weapons. I do get Rares lvl 74-76 drops from lvl 40-65 areas.
So I believe for it to be harder is ok!

Acewings.6872:

What’s the problem with taking a higher level char into a lower level area and dominating exactly? It’s not like you’d be able to grief people out of events or quests as all they would have to do is hit said monsters for like 1 damage to get credit…

The downleveling systems needs to be completely removed or capped at like 20 levels. As it stands right now, going into a low level area means low level drops. If the loot doesn’t scale to my top level, why should my top level scale down to like level 7 loot???

If Anet was truely concerned about making zones active, they would try to carrot as many people as possible instead of beating them with the stick.

Also, I totally agree with you OP, the downleveling system is completely unfair.

As a higher level player you can earn XP, karma, money, and loot appropriate for your true level in a lower level zone because it’s still (supposed to be) challenging for you. If it wasn’t, there would be no risk balancing out the rewards.

There are a number of advantages to this feature. If you enjoyed leveling to 80 because the adventure and events were challenging and fun.. guess what, you can go anywhere in the world and they’ll still be challenging. You don’t have to live in level 80 zones exclusively.

You can go back and play with lower level friends without ruining their experience. And by experience, I mean you can join them without completely destroying the challenge of every encounter.

You say if you weren’t scaled you wouldn’t be griefing people at events, but that’s exactly what you’d be doing. When an event happens I want it to be challenging, not a snoozefest I can faceroll through. If you were walking around one-shotting groups of mobs with every swing you’d be completely wrecking the difficulty of the encounter for me.

It’s a good mechanic to have in place. It allows higher level players to play in lower level zones without creating problems. If anything, the scaling needs to be more severe because as is it’s still possible for higher level characters to trivialize lower level events.

Im a warrior and when i go to low level areas i one-two shot enemies. Maybe it is harder for caster classes? The scaling might be off for them?

I’ve also noticed this at times, some zones are less forgiving than others when it comes to downscaling but most of the time I can faceroll my way to victory.

So I made my way into a level 50-60 zone last night, and my experience was the complete opposite of my original post. I seemingly just steamroll through most if not all opponents.

This cements my theory that some mobs are simply not scaled appropriately. It makes zero sense that I can take on 8-10 level 80 mobs and not lose near half my health, but get decimated/killed by two level 75 fire grubs (all the while using very strategic fighting, not just standing still).

Fatal OEfx.5910:

So I made my way into a level 50-60 zone last night, and my experience was the complete opposite of my original post. I seemingly just steamroll through most if not all opponents.

This cements my theory that some mobs are simply not scaled appropriately. It makes zero sense that I can take on 8-10 level 80 mobs and not lose near half my health, but get decimated/killed by two level 75 fire grubs (all the while using very strategic fighting, not just standing still).

You should try going back to those level 75 fire grubs and take note of where you were standing at the time and make sure you were actually scaled around their level. The scaling regions have borders and it is completely possible (for example) to be standing in a region that caps you out level 5 but allows you to aggro level 10 enemies across the scaling border. Now, if you’re level 80 and move across that border towards them, you’ll become level 11. But if they come across the border to you, you’re still 5 and they’re still 10, and it gets painful quickly.

I’m wondering if that’s an example of what happened to you. Most zones have a general progression flow but every now and then you can come across some shortcut path that connects two areas within a zone that are vastly different levels and it’s easy to get into trouble there.

That said, those worms breath fire, don’t they? Burning conditions tends to hurt a lot, and if you take a face-full of it they can drop your health quickly no matter what. I’ve watched players stand on the receiving end of multiple fire breathers and drop dead in seconds. I’m not sure if that’s what happened to you, just offering a possible explanation.

I find that not every time but sometimes i’m downscaled to a level below the local mobs, but usually above. I usually feel slightly overpowered compared to on-level players, sometimes it seems i’m weaker.

Wait…hold the phone. There is more than 1 level 80 area?
;P

Hah. Yes.. actually 3 of the races (Norn, Charr, and Humans) have viable paths to 80. Really, it’s only the Asura and Sylvari that end up sharing with the rest of the races. I suspect time ran out before their region could be fleshed out more.