Guild Wars 2

Why must people keep shouting expansion?

Continuation of this thread: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Why-must-people-keep-shouting-expansion/page/3#post3754932

Somebody did close it with the message we could open a new topic.

It was also asked to mention GW2 more then other games. In the last thread there where just being made some comparisons but anyway make sure to mention GW2 more.

Also do not try to not leave any inflammatory commentary. I did not find any inflammatory commentary in the last thread but if you know what they are talking about.. don’t do that here.

So the question was, why do people want an expansion?

I would suggest going to that first thread before leaving a comment.

It’s obvious why people want expansions. I want an expansion. Having huge new zones to play around in and new professions and new races and new quests? What’s not to like?

The question is whether this sort of stuff can be delivered without an expansion. We did get Southsun Cove, which was a new zone…and it’s largely ignored by most of the player base. That doesn’t mean if they opened up the Crystal Desert that would be the case.

People go whether the easy profit is, so zones like Orr and Southsun Cove are largely deserted.

In an expansion the entire population moves to the new area….in most games. But this isn’t most games.

I think Anet would have to create a new zone and make the zone part of the living story for a period of time, then leave the zone there and make another new zone that’s also part of the living story.

But that’s not an expansion.

Do I want an expansion? I don’t know for sure. But I would like to see new zones, new professions and new races. New skills, and traits too.

If I can get that stuff without an expansion I’d be okay getting it piecemeal.

I would guess it is because they have little faith that we will get new zones, professions, etc. without one.

I don’t feel that way, I think the LS method of content delivery can give us those things.

I want one but I’m torn between a boxed version and a paid dlc (gems in game or cash on their website).

The gem store imo, should have been only used for this stuff and not armor and junk that should be only as drops from x, y, or z bosses.

The reason for a boxed disk, is that I can install it on any machine and enter my account info once I provided the cd key for the first time (as in gw 1 and launch of gw2). A dlc means you may only be able to have it once and when you upgrade your machine… you can never get the download again.

GW2 currently has no physical copies anywhere so if I never had a disk when the game launched I can’t re-install it. As chances are the download is one time use or fear of being sued for piracy or something else serious.

There is one reason we are not seeing an expansion in the physical sense: disks are for making home movies (or pr0n lol) and sharing your photos with family these days (in major gaming companies’ eyes) , not for shipping games (unless you are a console gamer and even that is becoming obsolete).

Pros For Boxed copy:

-Reusable on many machines (just need account info after adding game code/cd key to existing account)
-Shows you physically have it/bragging rights
-No lost install files have to re-download it on a new machine.

Pros of Paid DLC:
-Uses gem store main website, alternate payment methods to obtain.
-No waiting in lines at stores.
-No rain checks if it sells out.
-Easy access to the game install file after purchase.

Cons of Boxed Copy:
-Have to store it somewhere
-Can be lost or stolen and or damaged.
-May become outdated due to newer computer tech (most laptops and towers do not have cd/dvd drives built-in)
-May become outdated to to OS

Cons for Paid DLC:
-Gem store may go down website may go down.
-Gems are too much with gold to gems now. (70 g for 800 atm)
-Credit card fraud rampant
-Install file must be used only once or fear prosecution by the law
-Install file has a time limit on use.
-One install file per customer.
-Install file can be lost or deleted by accident (see above cons for consequences)
-Install file also is useless on a newer OS.

What would they put into an expansion? I don’t think they know which is why they won’t make one. Most of their original development effort went into making the open world which they now largely consider a wasted effort.

They have come to realize that people will only give new content a quick try and then go back to grinding whatever they thought was optimal unless the new content is backed up with a laundry list of (temporary) achievements. Just look at the October 22, 2012 patch notes and then the helpless plea at the end of the November 1, 2012 path notes. That was the final nail in the coffin of adding more unfocused “explorable” content to the game and thus gave birth to the highly focused living world content plus achievements.

They aren’t going to waste years to just dump a huge number of new zones on the players all at once that will become ghost towns in a month or two. I really think they don’t know what else to try in an expansion, so they aren’t going to do it.

Personally I think they would be able to deliver things like professions, zones and just permanent content but there are a few problems.

People have asked for that pretty much from the beginning of Season 1. Anet then promised we could expect such content. Now we are at the end of season 1 and the conclusion is we did not get that type of content.

So they did get there change to do it but they didn’t. You can’t then just expect people to wait to see of they might fulfill there promise in season 2.

Another problem is that releasing that sort of content in the LS in stead of an expansion also means they will be forces to go on generating money with the cash-shop. With expansions they could switch to generating money that way.

The content itself is also influenced by that focus. Like many cosmetic things that could offer game-play are now in the cash-shop and so do not provide any fun playable content.. See my last comment in the original thread for more details about that.
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Why-must-people-keep-shouting-expansion/page/2#post3754803

Many people want new zones, not a revamp of old zones so that they look worse than before.

In PvE, we did not get a single permanent new zone since the release of the LS. Why would people who want to explore support a mechanic like the LS.

We also did not get:

- new races
- new classes
- a fair amount of new skills (what did we get, 1 generic heal that is good for nothing , and one heal for each class, that is in regards to the GW history underwhelming)
- new zones
- new quests

As all this has not sufficiently been offered by the LS, people just go with what normally introduces the stuff mentioned above.

An expansion.

The LS failed to convince people that it is the right direction for this game. So the expansion is their final straw for the content they want.

You get what you pay for, so enjoy your “living story”.

Kaiyanwan.8521:

- new races
- new classes
- a fair amount of new skills (what did we get, 1 generic heal that is good for nothing , and one heal for each class, that is in regards to the GW history underwhelming)

Considering how hard it is for them to balance up the game (just take a look at the profession balance forum) as it is they would willingly pile up more problems for themselves?

Expansion means that developer has to make something really good to make people to buy it. Patch does not.

Also, releasing an expansion is better marketing. It makes people hear about the game again, people make reviews and views amount raises. Tell me, which you’re more interested in:

-Hey guys, there’s an expansion coming out with whole Cantha, new race/class, tons of improvements, changes!

Or

-Hey guys, so there’s a upcoming patch! New path for a dungeon! We promise that over a year we’ll try to slowly add more from Cantha!

AlexEBT.7240:

Kaiyanwan.8521:

- new races
- new classes
- a fair amount of new skills (what did we get, 1 generic heal that is good for nothing , and one heal for each class, that is in regards to the GW history underwhelming)

Considering how hard it is for them to balance up the game (just take a look at the profession balance forum) as it is they would willingly pile up more problems for themselves?

There is no balance now, be it in PvP, PvE or WvW. What difference would a new class make then? Or some new skills. If you are worried about eSports ambitions, just make all new skills PvE/WvW only.

eSports, best joke ever.

Dark Catalyst.1028:

You get what you pay for, so enjoy your “living story”.

I did pay the game (B2P). I even paid extra bugs supporting the B2P idea buying the CE. Then I did not buy any gems and so not supporting the LS and a cash-shop focused game. Now I am waiting to pay for an expansion, in the line with my last payment.

So if I would get what I pay for I would get an expansion.

Just saying.

Because WvW doesnt get any fixes or updates, and people have already done most of the PvE stuff, the LS is temp content which only goes so far.

To keep this game going they need an expansion so people have new things to do, and WvW needs a revamp so it isnt all about zergs.

It is great that GW2 is so pretty and that all NPCs are fully voiced and that dynamic events are much more engaging than “kill 10 of those hippos over there” quests, but this leads to a huge amount of development effort that has to go into making anything new. I think people are grossly underestimating the amount of time it would take to make an expansion of any decent size. I suspect that ANet has looked at it and doesn’t think it is worth the effort (not even close.)

I don’t mind the LS; in fact I quite enjoy it. That said, I’m not against an expansion either. Be it through a traditional boxed model, or delivered piece by piece via some type of living world patching. I’m not in any hurry though. Using other games as guidelines, it looks like 1.5 to 2 years is pretty standard for initial expansion time. We’re in the ‘zone’ for now it, we might start hearing some inkling about the ‘large projects’ they have cooking.

Of course, considering how much voice acting is done in GW2, I would not be surprised if a full expansion took a little longer to coordinate just due to needing to schedule all of that.

It is what players are used to and they can’t imagine a world without expansions. If people aren’t liking the LS then I don’t know why they’d think they would like what Anet might put out in an expansion. I don’t mind either way, LS or expansion (or both).

(copy/pasted from the first one)

I tried to answer this topic yesterday, but couldn’t figure out what my “problem” was with the word “expansion” (because I share OP’s curiousity) well enough to formulate a thought…

I finally figured it out.

The player community doesn’t have a single definition of “expansion”
To me, that means something comparable to GW1’s Factions and Nightfall… those weren’t just additional explorable lands, they felt like a completely new game.

I presume those took about 1-2 years of work on the backend to create (not time between releases… I mean invested development WORK).

And this is where I get wishy-washy on the “expansion” demands – I want a real expansion that has overarching changes on the base game like those two did.

There’s not been enough time, I would also assume, to do an actual expansion justice. If they release add-on content of the smaller scale, awesome… but calling that kind of release an expansion will cheapen the word over time.

Maybe the OP’s frustration is because he’s/she’s thinking of the typical MMO “expansion” that’s underwhelming… in which case, that’s why I balk at that word being bandied about, as well.

I think if you compare what has been permanently added to GW2 through the LS to what was added to GW1 through EotN you would find that the “traditional expansion” delivered far more substance. I think that is what people are looking for. If Anet could step it up and deliver more with the LS, then that would be fine, but after a year+ it doesn’t stand up to traditional expansions.

One thing that would have helped is if all of the temporary stuff had been permanent. Add a new playable race or some new profession skills on top of that and you would actually have something close to an “expansion-worth” of content.

Dark Catalyst.1028:

You get what you pay for, so enjoy your “living story”.

You don’t always get what you pay for. I paid plenty for other games, and got next to nothing for it.

Kaiyanwan.8521:

AlexEBT.7240:

Kaiyanwan.8521:

- new races
- new classes
- a fair amount of new skills (what did we get, 1 generic heal that is good for nothing , and one heal for each class, that is in regards to the GW history underwhelming)

Considering how hard it is for them to balance up the game (just take a look at the profession balance forum) as it is they would willingly pile up more problems for themselves?

There is no balance now, be it in PvP, PvE or WvW. What difference would a new class make then? Or some new skills. If you are worried about eSports ambitions, just make all new skills PvE/WvW only.

eSports, best joke ever.

It’s not about e-sports. Let them, actually, get a grip on how to make the current system work before adding more fuel to the fire so to speak.

I want an expansion because I would like to see one of the other continents… but above all I dont want to live through another season of the LS if its anything like this years was… I would gladly pay for an expansion in exchange for no more LS. And to clarify by expansion I mean not just some little chunk added onto the original game I mean an expansion true to guild wars original nature that is essentially a stand alone game that can be linked to the other games.

Getting new content is how you forget bad old content, in the short term at least. So if they just keep pushing new content every weak, they don’t have to fix stuff…for a while.

AlexEBT.7240:

Kaiyanwan.8521:

- new races
- new classes
- a fair amount of new skills (what did we get, 1 generic heal that is good for nothing , and one heal for each class, that is in regards to the GW history underwhelming)

Considering how hard it is for them to balance up the game (just take a look at the profession balance forum) as it is they would willingly pile up more problems for themselves?

If they don’t the game will die.

How I understand this is that this game is more horisontal than vertical and means that adding new zones will just devide players up between even more maps.
Anet don’t want GW2 to be a game where new players play for them selfes and old players play in new zones.

IMO every expansion I have played in other games usually lasts 3 weeks before they get booring or repeating with grinding content (Like new gear). The LS for the most time keeps me entertained for a week atleast (sure not all LS has been entertaining).
I don’t feel the need for an expansion, I realy like how the LS works but I wouldn’t say no to a new class but that would be like a bonus.

If a game has an expansion 2 times a year and it gives me 2 months entertainment for a year all together. I would rather choose the LS model that gives me about 5 months of entertainment.

For me it does not matter if I get a new class or new skills as long as they can keep me interested in the game and so far they have succeded in that.

This is ofcourse all my opinion.

Isn’t this rather obvious? People want lots of new content that isn’t about collecting 500 of this or that. LS failed to deliver that, so they want an expansion.

dekou.6012:

Isn’t this rather obvious? People want lots of new content that isn’t about collecting 500 of this or that. LS failed to deliver that, so they want an expansion.

oh? Hmm… So may I ask you what LS has been about collecting 500 or even 100 of stuff to compleate or even achieve the LS meta?

And I wanna add:
Compared to many other MMO’s where every expansions is about to level up, farm new tokens or grinding new gear to compleate the new instances and compleate the new instances over and over again until you get the best gear in the game (Intil the next expansion).

Well if we don’t care about story…

People want an expansion because living story did not be a equivalent replacement until now, maybe living story season 2 will change things and ppl accept it as worthy updates.
We will see.

If the Living Story had been at all good, people wouldn’t want an expansion this badly.

NewTrain.7549:

If the Living Story had been at all good, people wouldn’t want an expansion this badly.

Basically, this. We keep asking for an expansion, because over a year with Living Story has taught us, that there are things we’d want that we’re not going to ever get within LS.

I don’t know about expansion, since I just started playing the game, but I would definitely pay for the Tengu race a la carte style.

people keep asking for an expansion because they want content that is permanent and of higher quality to the majority of the living story releases, which have typically had bugs for half the time they have been available and been poorly planned and executed.

Magnus Steelgrave.6580:

I want an expansion because I would like to see one of the other continents… but above all I dont want to live through another season of the LS if its anything like this years was… I would gladly pay for an expansion in exchange for no more LS. And to clarify by expansion I mean not just some little chunk added onto the original game I mean an expansion true to guild wars original nature that is essentially a stand alone game that can be linked to the other games.

A stand alone I would not like to see, why would you want a stand-alone? You can add in all the same amount of content without it being standalone. I don’t really see the benefit, only negatives compared to a normal expansion.

EdgarMTanaka.7291:

How I understand this is that this game is more horisontal than vertical and means that adding new zones will just devide players up between even more maps.
Anet don’t want GW2 to be a game where new players play for them selfes and old players play in new zones.

IMO every expansion I have played in other games usually lasts 3 weeks before they get booring or repeating with grinding content (Like new gear). The LS for the most time keeps me entertained for a week atleast (sure not all LS has been entertaining).
I don’t feel the need for an expansion, I realy like how the LS works but I wouldn’t say no to a new class but that would be like a bonus.

If a game has an expansion 2 times a year and it gives me 2 months entertainment for a year all together. I would rather choose the LS model that gives me about 5 months of entertainment.

For me it does not matter if I get a new class or new skills as long as they can keep me interested in the game and so far they have succeded in that.

This is ofcourse all my opinion.

We are all giving opinions and idea. Seems like most people want expansions, you prefer LS.

About not spreading people. Of course it’s already the case that new players in the begin-area’s are playing alone. If you don’t want to have that even more then you should simply not increase the level-cap in any way.

However it’s not that ArenaNet ever said that. They said they did not want to split up the player-base what happened with standalone expansions they did with GW1. They in fact did say before release they would give out expansions (now they have come back on that saying they might maybe ever but for now not).
See:
http://www.joystiq.com/2011/06/15/guild-wars-2-to-avoid-retail-mmo-expansion-model/
and
http://www.videogamer.com/news/guild_wars_2_expansions_a_sure_thing_says_arenanet_2.html

About new content keeping you only entertained for 3 weeks, that all depends. If you add in some fun cool stuff to do then it could take you much longer. Lets say they would introduce some profession where you can tame ranger pets. Taming the pet getting it to look they way you want or getting the stats you want can easily take you up to a year or even a few years. Yes going for that gear might also take you a long time if that what you are interested in. Going for that new armor (if it’s with a mechanism in the game, not with a gold-grind or cash-shop like now) could keep you entertained for a long time.

For me the LS feels extremely repeating but not only that, it feels like work because of it’s temporary nature you feel forced to do it. In the end it’s just a list of achievements you need to complete every 2 weeks / 1 month.

A bunch of new zones would just be fully explored in 2 weeks or so anyway. LS updates make much more sense – they tie to gem store promotions, they keep people playing to see what’s going on, and they don’t split the population (i.e. people who don’t buy the expansion vs those who do.)

A new race unlock that people pay for might be possible, but people would whine hard about paying for that.

EdgarMTanaka.7291:

Well if we don’t care about story…

That is a good question, i wonder how many people are really interested in the story.

Then I don’t mean they appreciate that there is some underlying story that tight things together but those that are really into the story itself.

Naevius.3185:

A bunch of new zones would just be fully explored in 2 weeks or so anyway. LS updates make much more sense – they tie to gem store promotions, they keep people playing to see what’s going on, and they don’t split the population (i.e. people who don’t buy the expansion vs those who do.)

A new race unlock that people pay for might be possible, but people would whine hard about paying for that.

`A bunch of new zones would just be fully explored in 2 weeks or so anyway. LS updates make much more sense – they tie to gem store promotions, `
That pretty much is it. It´s just to support the cash/shop focused game. What is to bad, this game could be so much better then the many cash/shop games out there.

`they keep people playing to see what’s going on, and they don’t split the population (i.e. people who don’t buy the expansion vs those who do.)`
They would only have no access to the new zones and could maybe not get some of the new items. But except for they they can still play together. If you really want some good new content you will need to pay for it.

`A new race unlock that people pay for might be possible, but people would whine hard about paying for that.`
Not if it was part of an expansion they had to pay for.

Nice points but stop going around saying Anet isn’t planning to release an expansion atm, based on old interviews. Newer ones, Anet said clearly they have the content and they want to decide how to release it.

By the reactions the players have, I don’t really doubt that they will release an expasnion soon enough.

nGumball.1283:

Nice points but stop going around saying Anet isn’t planning to release an expansion atm, based on old interviews. Newer ones, Anet said clearly they have the content and they want to decide how to release it.

By the reactions the players have, I don’t really doubt that they will release an expasnion soon enough.

In a recent interview they said again they where not working or planning an expansion but the did have some content and where planning on putting in some new content and had not decided yet how to release that.
So looking at what they say it points mainly towards no.
Besides that we know a new LS is coming and it’s pretty much stopping your effort in a LS or in an expansion. Of course the second LS could be extremely small so they can develop the expansion but it does not look that way.

Lastly we should have had an expansion by now if that was they way they would go. So I think it’s fair to say it’s low on there list.

Well, I have faith that GW2 got a huge chance of releasing an impressing LS2 if they try to tweak the mechanics, something they said they will as they know that the first season was recieved poorly and didn’t live up to the company’s on paper plans.

Now despite that, I personally would hope there would be an expansion anyhow, it is the best option to blow up the media with GW2 again. Even the players will be blown up with the hype again, something, that will break the stale feeling some people are starting to get with no new permenant content.

Whether its further western Maguuma, the Far Shiverpeaks, or Elona, we’re getting new explorable content in Living Story Season 2. It has to be, we’re fighting a dragon and there aren’t any to be found on the current explorable map.

Someone also noticed the Tengu have new animations. If the threat of a new dragon reaches Caledon or they spy an opportunity in the ruins of Lion’s Arch, its possible our avian friends are about to pick a side.

And with new lands a certainty and a new race likely, then there’s not much reason for an expansion to go alongside Season 2.

Anet though announced that the two huge projects they are woking on are seperate from the LS. So await even more :P

nGumball.1283:

Anet though announced that the two huge projects they are woking on are seperate from the LS. So await even more :P

That’s the problem with this game.

All we do it wait.

Promise after promise has been broken and quite frankly they put more effort as of late in forum moderation and the gem shop then I have seen in development.

Things that make you go Hmmm…..

People are shouting for expansions because this game currently has a total lack of content to keep people logging in. Eventually the shouts will stop and the forums will get quiet again because bored players only stick around for so long.

Azreell.1568:

People are shouting for expansions because this game currently has a total lack of content to keep people logging in.

Don’t make ridiculous statements. This game puts out more content that any MMO ever created.

https://www.guildwars2.com/en/the-game/releases/

Karizee.8076:

Azreell.1568:

People are shouting for expansions because this game currently has a total lack of content to keep people logging in.

Don’t make ridiculous statements. This game puts out more content that any MMO ever created.

https://www.guildwars2.com/en/the-game/releases/

Thank you for causing me to fall out of my chair laughing.

I personally think that ArenaNet is working on expansion from quite some time. Just because they are working doesn’t mean that it will be announced or released anytime soon. As far as I know ArenaNet is quite large developer (around 270 emplyees). Don’t you guys think that with this number of ppl working on game we would get something better than whole Living Story?. In my opinion there are working around 30 ppl on living story, and what is doing rest of 240? For me this whole Living Story is just a way to keep this game alive between expansions and a way to earn some extra money by cash shop. Anyhow there are stilll at least 3 dragons to kill And from what we seen on LS ending next one joined their team

I have a possitive view on the world and there is no MMO in the industry atm introducing anything good anyhow xD

Keep up the smiles guys and don’t let depressing thoughts mess up your experience, if you feel bored, take a break, it is just a game afterall, maybe someday you will join in and enjoy it again.

I don’t really spend my time shouting for an expansion or anything. But I do hope for one.

Mainly because there are some key additions to the game that I feel will only be added via expansion. New classes, new weapon types, new races, fully fleshed-out new zones, new traits and skills.

The LS thus far has shown no signs of adding any of that. Classes, weapon types, races, those are 100% absent from LS to this point.

New zones, we’ve gotten 1 permanent new zone (Southsun) which is, quite frankly, not very good. Its got no vistas, no skill points, no quests, and its tiny. Even dynamic events are few and far between. Basically the only good points about Southsun are a unique resource in Passion Fruit / Flowers, a decent meta-event, and another zone for T6 harvesting. And the fact that it looks rather nice I suppose. It is “technically” a new zone, but compared to other zones in the game (even Orr) it feels rather lackluster. And even aside from it feeling rather bland compared to other zones in the game, its still just one zone in a year and a half.

New skills, we’ve gotten a few. One universal healing skill and one class-specific healing skill per class. Its something, but not all that impressive. Traits, none really. A few bad traits have been replaced or overhauled, but for the most part we’re in the exact same spot we started in as far as those go. No new trait trees or anything.

There’s also a matter of in-game weapons and armor. A proper expansion will, most of the time, include a fair number of those sorts of additions. Whereas the LS thus far has mostly added gem-store stuff.

Now, could the LS technically add all of those things? Sure. But nothing about LS so far suggests that it will. Its a possibility, but that’s all it is. An expansion is almost guaranteed to add most / all of those, at least if its a fully fleshed-out and well-made one. So between clinging to LS and hoping and praying they add more substancial stuff to the game or hoping for an expansion that will definitely add those things, I’d rather go for the expansion.

Inculpatus cedo.9234:

I would guess it is because they have little faith that we will get new zones, professions, etc. without one.

I don’t feel that way, I think the LS method of content delivery can give us those things.

This game is soon to be 2 years old.

Within this time, how many permanent, explorable zones like that of Queensdale for instance, did you get?

Faith? Be serious. It’s too late for that.

The only thing that will keep this game alive is a paid expansion. Nothing else.

If you think you’ve got a better solution? Please, do suggest it, but keep in mind one thing – be realistic about the game’s present quality of LS content.

What people fail to realize is that these negative remarks and comments are not a bash against GW2 or Anet but a warning of players who are not happy with the current path this game is on.

There are obviously a lot of us as these forums have continued posts on the topic as well as many guilds I know are loosing players left and right.

The people defending this game in it’s current state are doing the game no justice. No one wants this game to fail but at the same time no one is going to support a second rate game either.

Anet’s development team needs a harsh reality check. These posts are consumers who aren’t happy with the product and desire it to improve.

Eventually they will get tired and move on to other games, but understand while you may not care each player who leaves is a loss for Anet.

LS is a failed attempt at content. They tried and I give them credit but to keep pushing a failed concept that a very large amount of people don’t like it foolish.

Karizee.8076:

Azreell.1568:

People are shouting for expansions because this game currently has a total lack of content to keep people logging in.

Don’t make ridiculous statements. This game puts out more content that any MMO ever created.

https://www.guildwars2.com/en/the-game/releases/

You’re joking, right? You have to be joking…