Guild Wars 2

So after watching some of the pvp spectating it seems they added a viable inspect window. Why dont we have this in PvE? Seems all the complaints of MF in dungeons, Multiple Condition people, and players not carrying their weight could be helped by this. You could make it group only or add an option to make it public or not. Perhaps even make it a link from the player like a /Show build command instead.

Why do people feel the need to see everything?

I have no good words for those who require “berserker/exotic/ascended ping gear” when doing runs. It is a game not some kitten heart surgery where you need everything and everyone perfect.

it’ll lead to elitism.

Probably because gear doesn’t make that much of a difference and they wanted to avoid people getting judgemental over it.

They could add something like they had in GW1 where you could show your skill bar to other players. That seemed to satisfy most people. I always had to explain that I had a fiery bow string to make Conjure Flame/Mark of Rodgort functional, but I don’t remember anyone wanting proof that you had attributes (traits) to match your build or had runes and insignias on all your armor.

usually i ping utilities skills then i got supressed chat

Because people will use it to demand you have the right build, which is stupid. We should be able to use whatever build we want. Being able to turn it off doesn’t help either because they will simply require you to turn it on.

Because builds don’t equal skill. And in PVe, even if my build isn’t a “standard” build, it works quite well for me.

In Guild Wars 1, people used to ask me to ping my build, after which they wouldn’t accept me in their groups. So I’d go solo the content with heroes, come back and wave at them, trying to build their group.

A lot more people out there think they have a clue than actually have one.

Inspect is a horrible idea.

If it was added, it should be for cosmetics only. So if you see someone and wonder what style of armor they are wearing, that would be fine. Otherwise, as everyone else said it would lead to nothing but elitism and division among the player base. As it is, when people ask me to ‘ping my gear,’ I just leave even if I know my gear is up to par. I can’t stand that attitude where you have to be the most efficient gear/build possible or you’re not wanted. An inspect option would magnify that problem by a factor of a thousand.

Because my gear is none of your frigging business.

Vayne.8563:

Because builds don’t equal skill. And in PVe, even if my build isn’t a “standard” build, it works quite well for me.

In Guild Wars 1, people used to ask me to ping my build, after which they wouldn’t accept me in their groups. So I’d go solo the content with heroes, come back and wave at them, trying to build their group.

A lot more people out there think they have a clue than actually have one.

^So much this

Herr der Friedhoefe.2490:

Because my gear is none of your frigging business.

This in a nutshell

Herr der Friedhoefe.2490:

Because my gear is none of your frigging business.

This

Windu The Forbidden One.6045:

We should be able to use whatever build we want.

You can use whatever you want when you are alone, but in a party there are four other people you should think of. People ought to respect their fellow team members and don’t force them to carry anyone in masterwork or sentinel/cleric/shaman/rabid/carrion mix of gear. Same goes with selfish magic find leeching, it helps you, but kicks the other four people in their faces.

Herr der Friedhoefe.2490:

Because my gear is none of your frigging business.

If you join my party, it is my business, because I will have to make up for your bad gear.

So people can be kicked from groups because other people are idiots and don’t realise you don’t need perfect build and gear to complete content? It’ll result in people who’ve never played a specific profession passing judgement on others because they think it’s not a good build.

Konrad.9587:

Windu The Forbidden One.6045:

We should be able to use whatever build we want.

You can use whatever you want when you are alone, but in a party there are four other people you should think of. People ought to respect their fellow team members and don’t force them to carry anyone in masterwork or sentinel/cleric/shaman/rabid/carrion gear. Same goes with selfish magic find leeching, it helps you, but kicks the other four people in their faces.

Herr der Friedhoefe.2490:

Because my gear is none of your frigging business.

If you join my party, it is my business, because I will have to make up for your bad gear.

Brilliant. Because gear is the only thing used measure of a person’s play skill. Bravo.

knives.6345:

Brilliant. Because gear is the only thing used measure of a person’s play skill. Bravo.

Assuming that the players are equally skilled (or equally unskilled), then it is gear that matters. Besides, isn’t building an effective gear a part of being a skilled player?

Isn’t time a component required in building effective gear? What if I don’t have much? Will make it even harder to find a dungeon group for people who don’t have much time to begin with.

Those other 4 party members don’t decide which build works best for me. If I perform well with the build I use then there shouldn’t be a problem at all.

Konrad.9587:

because I will have to make up for your bad gear.

Because every build you don’t agree with is automatically a ‘bad build’ am I right?
The only thing I agree on is the use of magic find, because that doesn’t contribute anything to the party and is indeed selfish.

Iruwen.3164:

Isn’t time a component required in building effective gear? What if I don’t have much? Will make it even harder to find a dungeon group for people who don’t have much time to begin with.

You’d be more than welcome in my groups

Konrad.9587:

knives.6345:

Brilliant. Because gear is the only thing used measure of a person’s play skill. Bravo.

Assuming that the players are equally skilled (or equally unskilled), then it is gear that matters. Besides, isn’t building an effective gear a part of being a skilled player?

Ok let’s break it down.

1. You assume that you and other person is of equal skill.
2. You relate effective gear to a skilled player.
Ergo
3. By assumption 1, we can assume as well that said player has effective gear.

Therefore, if you assume someone is equally skilled as you, then you must also assume that they have effective gear.

Konrad.9587:

knives.6345:

Brilliant. Because gear is the only thing used measure of a person’s play skill. Bravo.

Assuming that the players are equally skilled (or equally unskilled), then it is gear that matters. Besides, isn’t building an effective gear a part of being a skilled player?

If you are assuming players have equal skill – since you seem to like assumptions, assume that they also have equal gear.

And yes, building gear it is part of being an effective player – but you don’t start from exotics, right?

You have to start small – and if all players have a logic like yours, who only takes full geared players – god – those poor geared/new players will have a rough road ahead of them.

But hey – you play however you want to play. Cheers! Let thou be rich and continue to be rich!

Vayne.8563:

Because builds don’t equal skill. And in PVe, even if my build isn’t a “standard” build, it works quite well for me.

Funny anecdote. Yesterday I’m doing a leisurely Ori Orr run in Malchor’s Leap, and happen by someone about to die to that Inquest Golum champion. I help them up onto their feet multiple times, and basically solo the champion by myself (accounting for all the time that other person was laying on the ground, and myself needing to help them up). After defeating the champion, I take a bow, and run off for more ori.

A minute or so later that person is trying to get my attention on /map asking me for what build/gear I was using, as they were apparently shocked at the performance. I briefly explain the build, ping my celestial stat Ascended slots, and suddenly /map breaks out into a bunch of people expressing their kitten over how celestial stats are so bad, and how no one should ever use them, and that you will never be a valued party member with any celestial gear, blah blah blah.

I like not having any sort of inspect. That way unless you yourself say what gear stats you are using, then the only thing people have to judge your build is by seeing you in action. Personally idgaf what some guy’s internet guide says is the best build, or which build are terrible, nor do I care about the opinions of people who blindly follow some random build guide.

Also, I find it fine assessing what build someone is using simply by seeing them in action for a it. Additionally its a bit more social to actually discuss builds, rather than simply inspect and judge in silence. The other week myself and another Guardian had a somewhat lengthy discussion about Guardian builds while going through one dungeon… its more social, and much more informative than a simple inspect option.

tl;dr: The lack of an inspect function is better for the game.

penatbater.4710:

Ok let’s break it down.

1. You assume that you and other person is of equal skill.
2. You relate effective gear to a skilled player.
Ergo
3. By assumption 1, we can assume as well that said player has effective gear.

Therefore, if you assume someone is equally skilled as you, then you must also assume that they have effective gear.

Nice try, but in #1 I only meant the equality of personal gameplay skills, not their high level.

Windu The Forbidden One.6045:

Because every build you don’t agree with is automatically a ‘bad build’ am I right

No, your build/gear is bad when it makes you contribute less to the team effort than the other party members contribute . There are no 36-man raids in Guild Wars 2, there are only five people to share it, thus your share is going to be quite significant.

Konrad.9587:

If you join my party, it is my business, because I will have to make up for your bad gear.

Let me assure you, I have no interest in even being on the same server as you.

Vayne.8563:

Because builds don’t equal skill. And in PVe, even if my build isn’t a “standard” build, it works quite well for me.

In Guild Wars 1, people used to ask me to ping my build, after which they wouldn’t accept me in their groups. So I’d go solo the content with heroes, come back and wave at them, trying to build their group.

A lot more people out there think they have a clue than actually have one.

Folks don’t understand creative builds. My husband had the same experience with his mesmer’s build in GW1. That build was perfect – every point was where it was for a reason, and it only worked with a particular weapon from the collector’s edition. He was a menace in PvP. There were very few builds that could counter him, mostly because they couldn’t figure out why they were dying before they were dead

Herr der Friedhoefe.2490:

Because my gear is none of your frigging business.

It is when you join my dungeon party with a full rare magic find set. If you think that’s okay to have a selfish attitude and make others work for your rewards. Then these kinds of people (or leeches I like to call them) I can do with out in my groups.

Herr der Friedhoefe.2490:

Because my gear is none of your frigging business.

This.

Herr der Friedhoefe.2490:

Konrad.9587:

If you join my party, it is my business, because I will have to make up for your bad gear.

Let me assure you, I have no interest in even being on the same server as you.

And this.

I support COSMETIC ONLY inspect.
*Preview inspect window with no stats
*short player message/introduction
*Guild message/introduction
*Guild profile link (Guild charter, rules, number of players in guild)

Herr der Friedhoefe.2490:

Konrad.9587:

If you join my party, it is my business, because I will have to make up for your bad gear.

Let me assure you, I have no interest in even being on the same server as you.

What a pity, I would love to see how someone with such low teamwork sense performs in a party.

People have to start from somewhere and not allowing them to join because you want to complete a dungeon a few minutes quicker is more selfish than using magic find gear in my opinion. Also just to note, I don’t personally use magic find gear and never will in dungeons but personally I’ve seen people in magic find gear doing really well.

I have tried a few builds I found on the internet, but none of them suited my play style at all so I modified it to make it my own and works fantastically. If I explain to people what my build is people would probably slate me for it, but I don’t care because it works. If they made it an option to inspect my gear, all the ignorant fools out there who think there is only 1 viable build for every class will try to stop me enjoying the game, or at least the way I play it and I think I would just end up getting too frustrated and quit like all other mmo’s have led me to do.

Konrad.9587:

Herr der Friedhoefe.2490:

Konrad.9587:

If you join my party, it is my business, because I will have to make up for your bad gear.

Let me assure you, I have no interest in even being on the same server as you.

What a pity, I would love to see how someone with such low teamwork sense performs in a party.

Our guild does just fine without the likes of you trying to dictate what gear we have to use.

No /Inspect because everytime there was /inspect in a game, It turned into an elitist attitude when getting people into groups. We already have the problem of people just saying “Well, War/Mesm/Guard is best group class for PvE”, making alot of CoFs basically just a bunch of Wars. Now you want to further cut the divide from another by allowing their gear to be seen? No, I prefer to keep it the way it is.

Konrad.9587:

Windu The Forbidden One.6045:

We should be able to use whatever build we want.

You can use whatever you want when you are alone, but in a party there are four other people you should think of. People ought to respect their fellow team members and don’t force them to carry anyone in masterwork or sentinel/cleric/shaman/rabid/carrion mix of gear. Same goes with selfish magic find leeching, it helps you, but kicks the other four people in their faces.

Herr der Friedhoefe.2490:

Because my gear is none of your frigging business.

If you join my party, it is my business, because I will have to make up for your bad gear.

wow!
I guess zerker is the only good gear according to you eh?
You do realise there are other prefixes in the game for a reason right?

FYI many people do not have bad gear and still don’t want inspect because some fools think it ok to tell them how to run their characters

Don’t worry though you will never have to group with the likes of my Engi in my exco Rampagers gear, that I assure you :P

Surbrus.6942:

Vayne.8563:

Because builds don’t equal skill. And in PVe, even if my build isn’t a “standard” build, it works quite well for me.

Funny anecdote. Yesterday I’m doing a leisurely Ori Orr run in Malchor’s Leap, and happen by someone about to die to that Inquest Golum champion. I help them up onto their feet multiple times, and basically solo the champion by myself (accounting for all the time that other person was laying on the ground, and myself needing to help them up). After defeating the champion, I take a bow, and run off for more ori.

A minute or so later that person is trying to get my attention on /map asking me for what build/gear I was using, as they were apparently shocked at the performance. I briefly explain the build, ping my celestial stat Ascended slots, and suddenly /map breaks out into a bunch of people expressing their kitten over how celestial stats are so bad, and how no one should ever use them, and that you will never be a valued party member with any celestial gear, blah blah blah.

I like not having any sort of inspect. That way unless you yourself say what gear stats you are using, then the only thing people have to judge your build is by seeing you in action. Personally idgaf what some guy’s internet guide says is the best build, or which build are terrible, nor do I care about the opinions of people who blindly follow some random build guide.

Also, I find it fine assessing what build someone is using simply by seeing them in action for a it. Additionally its a bit more social to actually discuss builds, rather than simply inspect and judge in silence. The other week myself and another Guardian had a somewhat lengthy discussion about Guardian builds while going through one dungeon… its more social, and much more informative than a simple inspect option.

tl;dr: The lack of an inspect function is better for the game.

Thanks for this, it perfectly illustrates what I’m talking about.

I carry around a set of blues to ping,i never pug,just like to read the reaction of the idiots when they see it.:)

Morrigan.2809:

wow!
I guess zerker is the only good gear according to you eh?
You do realise there are other prefixes in the game for a reason right?

FYI many people do not have bad gear and still don’t want inspect because some fools think it ok to tell them how to run their characters

Don’t worry though you will never have to group with the likes of my Engi in my exco Rampagers gear, that I assure you :P

Funny thing, I said nothing about zerkers, and didn’t even call you a fool. Is my English so bad that you completely misunderstood my point?

Konrad.9587:

Morrigan.2809:

wow!
I guess zerker is the only good gear according to you eh?
You do realise there are other prefixes in the game for a reason right?

FYI many people do not have bad gear and still don’t want inspect because some fools think it ok to tell them how to run their characters

Don’t worry though you will never have to group with the likes of my Engi in my exco Rampagers gear, that I assure you :P

Funny thing, I said nothing about zerkers, and didn’t even call you a fool. Is my English so bad that you completely misunderstood my point?

Sorry if I came off as attacking you but I was using your post to illustrate a point- namely that it is usually the zerker types who think all other gear is bad.

You did list a bunch of prefixes as bad- while leaving out Berserkers so that was an assumption on my part sure- however you never actually said what you consider good or bad gear only that you judge people for their gear.

As for contributing to your team? You also never said what you consider a contribution.

Just that you think you might have to carry people with bad gear who do not contribute.
Now you tell me that does not sound exactly like another full zerker saying DPS is king.

I understand concerns about cookie-cutter builds. However there are some things they could still do:

1) Show Magic Find: this has nothing to do with build
2) Show Agony Resist: again has nothing to do with build
3) Allow full inspect at the end of dungeon: gives everyone chance to prove themselves while allowing us to learn from others

So let me get this straight. You guys are against /inspect because you’re afraid people will judge you by horrible gear, a spec that doesn’t make any sense and won’t be allowed into groups?

That’s even MORE reason to add /inspect so you guys might get off your “I play what I want, up yours” high horse and do what you’re needed to do in group play.

Iehova.9518:

So let me get this straight. You guys are against /inspect because you’re afraid people will judge you by horrible gear, a spec that doesn’t make any sense and won’t be allowed into groups?

That’s even MORE reason to add /inspect so you guys might get off your “I play what I want, up yours” high horse and do what you’re needed to do in group play.

Nope.

We’re against /inspect because, while our build may be effective and our gear adequate (Exotic gear isn’t a ‘must’ for regular dungeons), you’ll get the elitists barring people from groups because builds don’t tie in with what they believe is the ‘right’ spec.

TheDaiBish.9735:

We’re against /inspect because, while our build may be effective and our gear adequate (Exotic gear isn’t a ‘must’ for regular dungeons), you’ll get the elitists barring people from groups because builds don’t tie in with what they believe is the ‘right’ spec.

Then don’t roll with the “elitists” and get your own groups. Merciful Kormir, this isn’t rocket science.

There is, and should be, no inspect for a very simple reason – there’s no need. Players can easily judge and measure others capabilities by simply playing with them. No gear build will ever be able to beat the personal skill of a player, his understand of his class, reflex and flexibility. On the other hand inspect creates a situation when only cookie-cutters are guaranteed a party in the pubs, since eventually a majority of players spreads the epidemy of gear-hysteria before any action even happens.

More of an issue are people who quit dungeon when something goes wrong (and usualy it goes wrong due to inexperience in a very particular dungeon not gear problems) than lack of the pre-run checking of the item build.

dadamowsky.4692:

More of an issue are people who quit dungeon when something goes wrong than lack of the pre-run checking of the item build.

Blacklist, replace, finish dungeon, enjoy money. It’s THAT simple and has worked for yours truly many times.

Iehova.9518:

So let me get this straight. You guys are against /inspect because you’re afraid people will judge you by horrible gear, a spec that doesn’t make any sense and won’t be allowed into groups?

That’s even MORE reason to add /inspect so you guys might get off your “I play what I want, up yours” high horse and do what you’re needed to do in group play.

No, the problem is standarization and class differences. Each class has various starting points and ending points of stats and DPS vs Survivability choices (or potential).

this is probably not the best example, but take your standard CoF run. For some people, Full zerker is pretty much the full goal for that dungeon. However, some classes like Engineer and necro benefit from different kinds of sets. Engineer can do pretty good DPS via might stacking and condition bursting, so they can go hybrid builds that use both condition and power. For necro, Zerker is certainly possible, but since they miss out on Invulnerability, have only Vitality scaling on their Death shroud and no access to vigor, its better for them to be a little more ‘selfish’ and opt for some extra survivability, aka a Knights armor set with everything else zerker. This way, they don’t die as fast and can keep their Death shroud in order to increase their DPS . When you compare to a Mesmer, who has multiple frames of invuln and easy vigor access, the survivability via complete negation of damage is higher, thus making it so they can afford to go glassy and run full zerker. A warrior also supports both the 2nd highest HP and highest base armor stats, giving them a good amount of mitigation they can shift towards DPS.

In the case of agony resist and magic find, I honestly wouldn’t see the problem in either being shown, but its still a slippery slope with Magic find as they could be using a celestial accs which offers it.

Iehova.9518:

Then don’t roll with the “elitists” and get your own groups. Merciful Kormir, this isn’t rocket science.

I personally don’t. I mostly do runs with my friends, occasionally picking up a pugger. IMO, as long as the person isn’t holding the others back in a run (read: dying all the time), they’re contributing.

However, /inspect would make elitism easier (no need to link gear, just view it), thus may very well increase elitism.

And no, I don’t have any evidence of this.

Iehova.9518:

dadamowsky.4692:

More of an issue are people who quit dungeon when something goes wrong than lack of the pre-run checking of the item build.

Blacklist, replace, finish dungeon, enjoy dokitten’s THAT simple and has worked for yours truly many times.

It’s exactly what I do, but new nicknames still feed my blacklist…

There you have it, gentlemen. For people who run with a static and/or friends, this is not an issue.

Iehova.9518:

So let me get this straight. You guys are against /inspect because you’re afraid people will judge you by horrible gear,

Horrible in THEIR view, that’s the problem here. My characters all have great builds and can hold their own in most fights, I don’t need elitists whining about my build because it doesn’t measure up to THEIR standarts.

Iehova.9518:

That’s even MORE reason to add /inspect so you guys might get off your “I play what I want, up yours” high horse and do what you’re needed to do in group play.

And I suppose you decide what kind of build everyone should play with? Even more reason to keep /inspect out of this game so people like you might get off your ‘you play what I want, up yours’ high horse.

Iehova.9518:

There you have it, gentlemen. For people who run with a static and/or friends, this is not an issue.

In the future, I may be doing runs on my own, since my friends quit / don’t have as much time to play / some other reason, so it may potentially become an issue.

I’m too used to being refused groups before I’ve even played with them based on gear and not my skill / knowledge of my class and encounters to be able to agree to an /inspect option.

I won’t approve of /inspect unless it’s for cosmetic preview only. :P