Guild Wars 2

2 things after /inspect is implemented in PVE :
1.GS
2.DPS Meter

meh too bad gw2 dun have heroic BiS items worth the effort for /inspect

Well, Jaall, at first i thought you would be the voice of reason until you took sides, haha.

Firstly, you shouldn’t expect to take a 8 year hiatus and jump back into where you left off. I did the same thing with WoW, but took my place at the bottom and worked my way up.

Secondly, take a look at SWTOR. It has gear inspect AND dps parsing, yet it isn’t the elitest, hellhole everyone thinks these tools will change the game into.

Player behavior determines the community, not the tools. If someone wants to deny you from a group because of your gear, don’t blame the function that lets you look at someone’s gear, blame the person denying you the group.

I have another suggestion. How about a /inspect, that people can turn on or off when THEY want to? That way people who don’t want to be inspected, can’t – yet people who want to get into groups and therefor want to show their gear etc. can turn it on and be inspected…problem solved.

Instead of argueing you guys should really just make different suggestions, like me >:O

Firefly.5982:

I have another suggestion. How about a /inspect, that people can turn on or off when THEY want to? That way people who don’t want to be inspected, can’t – yet people who want to get into groups and therefor want to show their gear etc. can turn it on and be inspected…problem solved.

Instead of argueing you guys should really just make different suggestions, like me >:O

I appreciate the suggestion Firefly However, there will still be arguments against this. I am pretty sure it has been suggested before, and the people against inspect state that elitism will still be brewed as they will kick you if you have inspect blocked (or force you to turn it on). I am in the boat that those same people are the ones who currently demand you link your gear, but meh.

There will always be arguments for or against everything. That’s life.
But if you can turn it on or off, it will just be the same as currently.

Now: You ask for people to link their gear – if they don’t, you kick them.
Then: You ask for people to turn on their inspect – if they don’t you kick them.

Zero difference. I am still on the side of saying /inspect is absolutely useless, but if so many people feel like they can’t live without it, being able to turn it on or off would give everybody what they want.

Adding /inspect would be redundant. The tools are already there to do your pre-run checks. Even if /inspect gets implemented, I don’t think it’ll prevent what you’re trying to avoid. How would you know that someone won’t switch gear to MF when the run starts? It’s the same in WoW and it has those tools (cheating the lfg and raid finder). Honestly this is one of those, “if it ain’t broke don’t fix it” things.

Elaria.6230:

Adding /inspect would be redundant. The tools are already there to do your pre-run checks. Even if /inspect gets implemented, I don’t think it’ll prevent what you’re trying to avoid. How would you know that someone won’t switch gear to MF when the run starts? It’s the same in WoW and it has those tools (cheating the lfg and raid finder). Honestly this is one of those, “if it ain’t broke don’t fix it” things.

You are assuming that demanding a set of gear for a dungeon run is the only use for this.

I wouldn’t use it for that but would use it for:

1. Improving my gear by inspecting more experienced guild mates and players
2. Finding out names of aesthetic pieces of armour (right now I have to whisper and ask and hope they respond).
3. Assisting guild mates and friends improve their gear

Firefly.5982:

I have another suggestion. How about a /inspect, that people can turn on or off when THEY want to? That way people who don’t want to be inspected, can’t – yet people who want to get into groups and therefor want to show their gear etc. can turn it on and be inspected…problem solved.

Instead of argueing you guys should really just make different suggestions, like me >:O

Another good idea. I wouldn’t mind an inspect feature that asked my permission. “X wants to inspect your gear, yes / no”

Jemmi.6058:

Elaria.6230:

Adding /inspect would be redundant. The tools are already there to do your pre-run checks. Even if /inspect gets implemented, I don’t think it’ll prevent what you’re trying to avoid. How would you know that someone won’t switch gear to MF when the run starts? It’s the same in WoW and it has those tools (cheating the lfg and raid finder). Honestly this is one of those, “if it ain’t broke don’t fix it” things.

You are assuming that demanding a set of gear for a dungeon run is the only use for this.

I wouldn’t use it for that but would use it for:

1. Improving my gear by inspecting more experienced guild mates and players
2. Finding out names of aesthetic pieces of armour (right now I have to whisper and ask and hope they respond).
3. Assisting guild mates and friends improve their gear

too add to this (you kind of hit it in your first point)
You can see what gear people have by looking, but /inspect would let you see what people have socketed, which would be helpful.

Also, if i’m on my ele in a group with another ele, i could inspect them to get an idea of their playstyle and tailor my weapons to better accommodate the group (if the other ele is mostly support ill switch to full dps)

but yea, to assume people only want /inspect to lock people out of dungeon groups is pretty narrow-minded.

Jemmi.6058:

You are assuming that demanding a set of gear for a dungeon run is the only use for this.

I wouldn’t use it for that but would use it for:

1. Improving my gear by inspecting more experienced guild mates and players
2. Finding out names of aesthetic pieces of armour (right now I have to whisper and ask and hope they respond).
3. Assisting guild mates and friends improve their gear

And that number 2 is exactly why I personally am SO against the /inspect feature I work very hard to give my toons unique mixed and matched looks and I do NOT want anyone to be able to just stop by, inspect me and copy my look. No thank you.

I know MANY people feel the same way, whereas others don’t care about looks like I don’t care if anyone knows my stats, whereas others don’t want people to copy their builds. A voluntary inspect feature would allow for both sides to be pleased.

Nikaido.3457:

IndigoSundown.5419:

What annoys me about requests for an inspect tool is the following.

I see lots of complaint on these forums by people annoyed by gear-based selection for runs, about speed runs, about any other selective criteria. Every time the people setting those criteria tell those people, “Join a guild, set up a friends’ list that thinks like you do.” In other words, don’t PuG.

However, the people setting the criteria want to be able to PuG. They want to be able to do so with as little inconvenience as possible. They even want the inspect feature added so they can kick faster. It’s all about their convenience, and the answer to complaints about their behavior devolve down to, “Put in extra effort to avoid us.”

I say, if you want the convenience of running with the like-minded, take the advice you offer those who complain about your behavior. Don’t PuG.

Hating the thought of this feature is not going to help you. Whether inspect is implemented or not you are going to get kicked, you’re just going to waste more of your own time if it happens during the run. The introduction of inspect would actually help you, whether you realize it or not. It certainly would’ve helped all these people who did get booted during my runs.

It’s not going to help me, mate. I took that advice, I don’t PuG.

I oppose the feature because the downside is somewhere between lack of privacy and griefing and the upside is convenience. In my mind privacy + grief-free > convenience.

Iirc, LotRO had an opt-out in options whereas WoW, when I played it, did not. If GW2 adopted an /inspect feature with an opt-out, all well and good. If some random kitten who wants to look at my stuff for the lolz because he’s bored, and decides to bother me about hiding my stuff, that’s what ignore is for.

So, don’t be concerned, I will never inconvenience you with my presence.

Firefly.5982:

Jemmi.6058:

You are assuming that demanding a set of gear for a dungeon run is the only use for this.

I wouldn’t use it for that but would use it for:

1. Improving my gear by inspecting more experienced guild mates and players
2. Finding out names of aesthetic pieces of armour (right now I have to whisper and ask and hope they respond).
3. Assisting guild mates and friends improve their gear

And that number 2 is exactly why I personally am SO against the /inspect feature I work very hard to give my toons unique mixed and matched looks and I do NOT want anyone to be able to just stop by, inspect me and copy my look. No thank you.

I know MANY people feel the same way, whereas others don’t care about looks like I don’t care if anyone knows my stats, whereas others don’t want people to copy their builds. A voluntary inspect feature would allow for both sides to be pleased.

I’m sure people are just lining up to copy your gear because they think your toon is soooo cool.

Scrambles.2604:

I’m sure people are just lining up to copy your gear because they think your toon is soooo cool.

Seeing how I am one of the very few people in this thread actually trying to make several thought- and useful suggestions on how to implement an inspect feature to the game without upsetting all the people who don’t want it I don’t quite get, why you feel like making fun of my personal reason, why I don’t want one?

It’s probably, because you are not a very civilized person

And yes…I have had people copy my look and I don’t appreciate it. That might not be something YOU care about, but you also think, that YOUR reasons for WANTING an inspect feature are more important than anything else…

Scrambles.2604:

Jemmi.6058:

Elaria.6230:

Adding /inspect would be redundant. The tools are already there to do your pre-run checks. Even if /inspect gets implemented, I don’t think it’ll prevent what you’re trying to avoid. How would you know that someone won’t switch gear to MF when the run starts? It’s the same in WoW and it has those tools (cheating the lfg and raid finder). Honestly this is one of those, “if it ain’t broke don’t fix it” things.

You are assuming that demanding a set of gear for a dungeon run is the only use for this.

I wouldn’t use it for that but would use it for:

1. Improving my gear by inspecting more experienced guild mates and players
2. Finding out names of aesthetic pieces of armour (right now I have to whisper and ask and hope they respond).
3. Assisting guild mates and friends improve their gear

too add to this (you kind of hit it in your first point)
You can see what gear people have by looking, but /inspect would let you see what people have socketed, which would be helpful.

Also, if i’m on my ele in a group with another ele, i could inspect them to get an idea of their playstyle and tailor my weapons to better accommodate the group (if the other ele is mostly support ill switch to full dps)

but yea, to assume people only want /inspect to lock people out of dungeon groups is pretty narrow-minded.

Actually, this is exactly why the OP wants /inspect and that’s what we are responding to.

Ballads.2509:

So after watching some of the pvp spectating it seems they added a viable inspect window. Why dont we have this in PvE? Seems all the complaints of MF in dungeons, Multiple Condition people, and players not carrying their weight could be helped by this. You could make it group only or add an option to make it public or not. Perhaps even make it a link from the player like a /Show build command instead.

Scrambles.2604:

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

Scrambles.2604:

Just implement it. There are no suggestions needed. It’s been in dozens of other successful MMOs.

Of course, we want this one to be a cookie cutter of every other one out there….

Yeah, and adding an inspect feature is going to also remove all of the unique aspects of GW2, i see what your getting at.

WoW also had a Chat Box in it, so lets remove that from GW2. All it does is allow Elitist players talk crap about you and make you build a certain way. If you really wanna chat that bad, just use mumble chat or skype, it’s not needed in the game.

Anet won’t put it in, because Anet themselves are against it. I can’t prove this but I know the devs of this game. They don’t want to add things to make elitism worse than it is, and they won’t.

Why do you think they didn’t have the same kinds of add ons in Guild Wars 1 that WoW is known for. They could have, but they didn’t. They don’t want gear scores or inspect, at least not in PvE. PvP of course is another story.

Scrambles.2604:

Your adding all these caveats to inspect that just makes things more complicated, in order to cater to people that wont use it in the first place. That’s why i don’t like your suggestion.

I am not adding anything. Neither is any of what I said made up. I am simply pointing out aspects of this feature, that you have not even thought of. It’s a fact that it will be used for more, than just what YOU would use it for. Which, by the way, I guarantee you the devs would consider as well, before implementing a feature solely based on ONE possible use.

Firefly.5982:

Scrambles.2604:

Your adding all these caveats to inspect that just makes things more complicated, in order to cater to people that wont use it in the first place. That’s why i don’t like your suggestion.

I am not adding anything. Neither is any of what I said made up. I am simply pointing out aspects of this feature, that you have not even thought of. It’s a fact that it will be used for more, than just what YOU would use it for. Which, by the way, I guarantee you the devs would consider as well, before implementing a feature solely based on ONE possible use.

Sorry, but i dont consider “I don’t want anyones characters to look like mine” a viable reason to not add an inspect feature.

Scrambles.2604:

Sorry, but i dont consider “I don’t want anyones characters to look like mine” a viable reason to not add an inspect feature.

And I don’t consider wanting to check people’s gear stats viable, as you can already ask them to just ping it for you. And personally, because it does encourage elitism, which I don’t approve of, even though I DO understand why elitist players would want it. See how that works? Your opinion, as much as you’d just love it, is NOT the only one that counts. Neither is mine. But other than you I am aware of that fact and try to find a solution for both sides…

@Scramble – There have been far too many ‘add this feature’ requests because ‘x’ other game has it. We don’t need it, and many don’t want it, and there is nothing wrong with that. You want that feature, fine go play ‘x’ other game. Just because they have it doesn’t mean we should.

If we start down that road we may as well throw out all the unique things because people aren’t going to want those anyway….they’re ‘too different’

Firefly.5982:

Scrambles.2604:

Sorry, but i dont consider “I don’t want anyones characters to look like mine” a viable reason to not add an inspect feature.

And I don’t consider wanting to check people’s gear stats viable, as you can already ask them to just ping it for you. And personally, because it does encourage elitism, which I don’t approve of, even though I DO understand why elitist players would want it. See how that works? Your opinion, as much as you’d just love it, is NOT the only one that counts. Neither is mine. But other than you I am aware of that fact and try to find a solution for both sides…

So you don’t approve? All listen to lord!!!
You elitist!

Since they added the feature to the PVP side of the game don’t you think they’ve already thought about the PVE side and weighed the pros and cons of it? This thread is just proof enough of it being too much of a hassle to add it.

Sovta.4719:

Firefly.5982:

And I don’t consider wanting to check people’s gear stats viable, as you can already ask them to just ping it for you. And personally, because it does encourage elitism, which I don’t approve of, even though I DO understand why elitist players would want it. See how that works? Your opinion, as much as you’d just love it, is NOT the only one that counts. Neither is mine. But other than you I am aware of that fact and try to find a solution for both sides…

So you don’t approve? All listen to lord!!!
You elitist!

You did read, what you quoted, before you quoted it, right? Because it sure doesn’t seem like it. I’ll help you out.

“Your opinion, as much as you’d just love it, is NOT the only one that counts. Neither is mine. But other than you I am aware of that fact and try to find a solution for both sides…”

That’s what I said. Very elitist, I know

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

@Scramble – There have been far too many ‘add this feature’ requests because ‘x’ other game has it. We don’t need it, and many don’t want it, and there is nothing wrong with that. You want that feature, fine go play ‘x’ other game. Just because they have it doesn’t mean we should.

If we start down that road we may as well throw out all the unique things because people aren’t going to want those anyway….they’re ‘too different’

I can see where your getting at. Mounts for instance; just because WoW had them doesn’t mean GW2 needs them. And that is true, because everyone has access to swiftness and mounts don’t necessarily fit in.

But the end game for GW2 primarily revolves around getting cool looking gear…and you’re going to tell me that a function to let me look at people’s cool gear is not needed??

WoW is a good and successful game for a reason. GW2 is nothing like WoW besides being an MMO. Taking useful features from WoW and implementing them in GW2 isn’t going to turn GW2 into WoW, it’s just going to make GW2 better.

Scrambles.2604:

Well, Jaall, at first i thought you would be the voice of reason until you took sides, haha.

Firstly, you shouldn’t expect to take a 8 year hiatus and jump back into where you left off. I did the same thing with WoW, but took my place at the bottom and worked my way up.

Secondly, take a look at SWTOR. It has gear inspect AND dps parsing, yet it isn’t the elitest, hellhole everyone thinks these tools will change the game into.

Player behavior determines the community, not the tools. If someone wants to deny you from a group because of your gear, don’t blame the function that lets you look at someone’s gear, blame the person denying you the group.

I only really took sides because personal experience has lead me to some truly horrible people but you’re right, it is the people and not the tool. It is just the fact that such tools promote being rude, it’s kinda rewarding to be that way because it’s so easy so a lot of people do it. Like I said though, I don’t really know which way it will go, they could implement it and it’ll be fine, it might stay the way it is now.

Nobody really has a way of knowing, I certainly don’t so I don’t really take sides but would prefer if it wasn’t implemented cause I don’t feel the risk is necessary. I agree too that 8 years is way too long, and as I said 8 months is still too long to take a break, but i’ve had real life issues that have come up where I literally don’t have time to play at all, and then issues arise where I have all the time in the world to play. For example, i was working full time but a year ago was involved in a major car accident where I smashed both legs which has resulted in a very long time off work recovering, so I fill that time with GW2.

I don’t like the fact that in a game you enjoy you can’t take them months off as a break from the game and never be able to return because of players attitudes towards content alone. If the players didn’t follow max/min dps, didn’t only take people with the correct gear etc I could have come back to the games no problem. Following that train of thought in the majority of the community led to that game being very difficult to start back up and I would hate for a game as good as GW2 to get to that stage where i cant come back and play when I get back to work.

It’s basically just personal opinion and almost fear that the pressure to continue playing, that of a subscription based mmo, would be enforced on a buy to play mmo simply because of a tool that encouraged people to be unforgiving when making groups. I would adapt as much as i could if they made it so it wouldn’t be terrible to me but I think the community would suffer even more than it is now because GW hasn’t been designed like WoW, in the way that it does not cater to pressured gameplay.

Where WoW can get away with it because they charge monthly so people play as much as possible to make the most out of it, GW you can take breaks and come back whenever you want because you don’t have to pay anything to play after you’ve bought it. This is simply personal opinion, and you’re completely right in the fact that it is down to the mentality of players and not the tool itself. I have faith in this community so I hope if it does get implemented it wont be as bad as people are saying, but from experience and almost hard fact in other mmo’s, it could potentially be very bad.

Jaall.3420:

Scrambles.2604:

Well, Jaall, at first i thought you would be the voice of reason until you took sides, haha.

Firstly, you shouldn’t expect to take a 8 year hiatus and jump back into where you left off. I did the same thing with WoW, but took my place at the bottom and worked my way up.

Secondly, take a look at SWTOR. It has gear inspect AND dps parsing, yet it isn’t the elitest, hellhole everyone thinks these tools will change the game into.

Player behavior determines the community, not the tools. If someone wants to deny you from a group because of your gear, don’t blame the function that lets you look at someone’s gear, blame the person denying you the group.

I only really took sides because personal experience has lead me to some truly horrible people but you’re right, it is the people and not the tool. It is just the fact that such tools promote being rude, it’s kinda rewarding to be that way because it’s so easy so a lot of people do it. Like I said though, I don’t really know which way it will go, they could implement it and it’ll be fine, it might stay the way it is now.

Nobody really has a way of knowing, I certainly don’t so I don’t really take sides but would prefer if it wasn’t implemented cause I don’t feel the risk is necessary. I agree too that 8 years is way too long, and as I said 8 months is still too long to take a break, but i’ve had real life issues that have come up where I literally don’t have time to play at all, and then issues arise where I have all the time in the world to play. For example, i was working full time but a year ago was involved in a major car accident where I smashed both legs which has resulted in a very long time off work recovering, so I fill that time with GW2.

I don’t like the fact that in a game you enjoy you can’t take them months off as a break from the game and never be able to return because of players attitudes towards content alone. If the players didn’t follow max/min dps, didn’t only take people with the correct gear etc I could have come back to the games no problem. Following that train of thought in the majority of the community led to that game being very difficult to start back up and I would hate for a game as good as GW2 to get to that stage where i cant come back and play when I get back to work.

It’s basically just personal opinion and almost fear that the pressure to continue playing, that of a subscription based mmo, would be enforced on a buy to play mmo simply because of a tool that encouraged people to be unforgiving when making groups. I would adapt as much as i could if they made it so it wouldn’t be terrible to me but I think the community would suffer even more than it is now because GW hasn’t been designed like WoW, in the way that it does not cater to pressured gameplay.

Where WoW can get away with it because they charge monthly so people play as much as possible to make the most out of it, GW you can take breaks and come back whenever you want because you don’t have to pay anything to play after you’ve bought it. This is simply personal opinion, and you’re completely right in the fact that it is down to the mentality of players and not the tool itself. I have faith in this community so I hope if it does get implemented it wont be as bad as people are saying, but from experience and almost hard fact in other mmo’s, it could potentially be very bad.

Haha, well it’s OK. Your in a safe place now. WoW was just one game out of many MMOs, and i can assure that SWTOR, a game based substantially on story-telling and aesthetics (so more similar to GW2) has inspect AND dps parsing. When i left SWTOR the community was just as friendly as when i started.

if you don’t want inspect, that’s fine. But it’s not fair to advocate against a tool that you don’t plan on using, because you think some jerk players (that probably don’t want to play with you in the first place) will be mean to you.

There are plenty of reasonable players that wont criticize your gear or dopplegang your character’s unique look. I would even dare to say that those players are the majority here.

Firefly.5982:

Sovta.4719:

Firefly.5982:

And I don’t consider wanting to check people’s gear stats viable, as you can already ask them to just ping it for you. And personally, because it does encourage elitism, which I don’t approve of, even though I DO understand why elitist players would want it. See how that works? Your opinion, as much as you’d just love it, is NOT the only one that counts. Neither is mine. But other than you I am aware of that fact and try to find a solution for both sides…

So you don’t approve? All listen to lord!!!
You elitist!

You did read, what you quoted, before you quoted it, right? Because it sure doesn’t seem like it. I’ll help you out.

“Your opinion, as much as you’d just love it, is NOT the only one that counts. Neither is mine. But other than you I am aware of that fact and try to find a solution for both sides…”

That’s what I said. Very elitist, I know

But when forming party my opinion counts, and if 1 more opinion counts you are kicked.
I hate you elitist that want to run just your own builds, not wanting to change skills for party. We don’t need that kind elitism in this game.

Scrambles.2604:

Haha, well it’s OK. Your in a safe place now. WoW was just one game out of many MMOs, and i can assure that SWTOR, a game based substantially on story-telling and aesthetics (so more similar to GW2) has inspect AND dps parsing. When i left SWTOR the community was just as friendly as when i started.

if you don’t want inspect, that’s fine. But it’s not fair to advocate against a tool that you don’t plan on using, because you think some jerk players (that probably don’t want to play with you in the first place) will be mean to you.

There are plenty of reasonable players that wont criticize your gear or dopplegang your character’s unique look. I would even dare to say that those players are the majority here.

The issue being that I’ve played a lot of mmo’s and most of them with the same tools as WoW have been taken over by this jerk-like attitude, and usually originate from these tools being introduced. Like I said I agree the community is to blame and this community is a lot better but anyone here against such tools has a right to be against it given what it has done to other games.

Also it works exactly the same the other way around, people for the tools have a right to be for it given that they want convenience. There is no right way which is why there is no definitive answer, therefore no real point to this thread. It all comes down to the direction ANet want to take this game. The problem is they have to try and please everyone and that can be very very difficult especially in this case because the 2 outcomes can be so widely apart/varied and both will cause a lot of arguments on both sides. I just hope whichever choice they make works out for the best.

Numbers are embedded in the gear you wear so whether you like it or not, if you’re not using the appropriate gear, it will be felt by the team. Numbers don’t lie. If you lack DPS, your team will kill slowly. It’s not magic or voodoo. It’s not even chemistry.

Elitism is misused to describe this. Common sense is the better word. If you’re not using the right gear, you’ll be likely someone to be carried, or burden your team. In games, of course, there are casuals and they probably don’t have the right stuffs. But it really depends on the leader. Befriend a leader. Be in the guild. Your gear how inferior it is, won’t matter.

But in the pugging scene, where you don’t know who will you run with personally and everything operates in a fixed time schedule (speed run coz you got better use of your time doing something in real life and games just a past time), you gotta set criteria. if you say “LFG Full Rabid ranger for Arah run” and you wish to belong to the group, you must be geared on Full Rabid. It’s english. But with no inspect, you won’t be in real time check armor changes. He prolly has magic find gear to switch after you accepted him. /inspect as i’ve said prevents dishonesty and sneakiness. If you condone dishonesty and shrewdness, i don’t know how were you raised by your parents.

that’s just me though. i may be wrong.

Jaall.3420:

The issue being that I’ve played a lot of mmo’s and most of them with the same tools as WoW have been taken over by this jerk-like attitude, and usually originate from these tools being introduced. Like I said I agree the community is to blame and this community is a lot better but anyone here against such tools has a right to be against it given what it has done to other games.

I dont’ know how wow is now. I played it too long ago. But I always felt the dungeon community is alot worse in GW2 than any other game.

The reality is when you mix veteran with new people nothing ever come out good. Take wow for example, you start with normal dungeon, after that you do heroic, after that you do raid. So chances are veteran players wont’ be mixed with new players.

In this game a person who run a dungeon 1000 times could be group up with a person who never done dungeon before. So what end up is alot of elitist, rage quiter, new players want to get carried.

If you meant to tell me other game have a bad dungeon comunity, I have to disagree with you there. I actually felt GW2 have it much worse.

Konrad.9587:

Besides, isn’t building an effective gear a part of being a skilled player?

No. It is not.

You could have the most effective gear in the world and it wouldn’t save you from Foefire if you stood in the radius and ate the damage.

laokoko.7403:

Jaall.3420:

The issue being that I’ve played a lot of mmo’s and most of them with the same tools as WoW have been taken over by this jerk-like attitude, and usually originate from these tools being introduced. Like I said I agree the community is to blame and this community is a lot better but anyone here against such tools has a right to be against it given what it has done to other games.

I dont’ know how wow is now. I played it too long ago. But I always felt the dungeon community is alot worse in GW2 than any other game.

The reality is when you mix veteran with new people nothing ever come out good. Take wow for example, you start with normal dungeon, after that you do heroic, after that you do raid. So chances are veteran players wont’ be mixed with new players.

In this game a person who run a dungeon 1000 times could be group up with a person who never done dungeon before. So what end up is alot of elitist, rage quiter, new players want to get carried.

If you meant to tell me other game have a bad dungeon comunity, I have to disagree with you there. I actually felt GW2 have it much worse.

That’s an interesting point. In Rift, the toxicity was there. The accusations of “selfish,” “elitist,” and “leecher looking to be carried” were there. Maybe this was because TW threw tokens that could be used for raid gear into dungeons. Getting that gear meant shortening the time to be fully decked out, so the better players were doing their dungeons, and didn’t want anything to get in the way of doing them as quickly as possible.

Any time games mix people with different expectations, there will be clashes.

Sovta.4719:

But when forming party my opinion counts, and if 1 more opinion counts you are kicked.
I hate you elitist that want to run just your own builds, not wanting to change skills for party. We don’t need that kind elitism in this game.

You are not making sense, sorry. I never said any of what you for some reason read into my quotes. I get the feeling you don’t really understand what I am writing.

Sovta.4719:

Kichwas.7152:

Sovta.4719:

They will get used to it, just like they got used to gear treadmill, guild missions for big guilds and so.

What gear teadmill? And what do guild missions have to do with this – those are more varied content and thus a good change.

What gear treadmill? Do this EVERY day to get laurels for ONE piece of new gear, ever 2-3 months new piece. I’m talking about small guilds not getting to play some guild missions or it takes them to much time to unlock, trust me a lot small guilds left cause of this, it’s a fact not assumption.

I am GM of a small guild. We’re still here. We do dungeons all the time. And when we want to, we do a guild bounty as well.

And nobody needs laurels or ascended gear – but laurels just drop anyway if you simply log in for a day…

I’ve played WoW since 2006, you sound really silly trying to claim we have a gear treadmill here compared to what I’ve seen in a game that actually has one.

Wethospu.6437:

TooBz.3065:

Wethospu.6437:

TooBz.3065:

Wethospu.6437:

Like specifically asking for someone with good damage and then getting shout-heal Hammer Warrior with Vit/Prec/Heal gear?
If you are fine with “elitist” parties then what’s the issue with providing necessary tools?

3) An inspect tool discourages build diversity. Everyone will gravitate toward a couple of builds that the elitist consider acceptable. (See 1)

And why do you care? It’s their group.
Why must every group be exactly like you want?

Don’t turn this around. You are the ones saying that every group has to be they way you want it. And you want to impose an inspect function so that you can ensure that there is no variation from the “ideal.”

Umm, no. We only care about our own group.

No you don’t, not if you’re calling for shoving an inspect tool up us all…

Jaall.3420:

WoW probably started off a lot like GW because these tools like recount and gear score were set up as mods and were not part of the game at all. I haven’t played WoW in a very long time but I would take a guess and say it’s exactly the same if not worse.

Yep. I was there back when the heated argument in the WoW community was whether or not it was rude to -NOT- buff random people when you passed them by. The common expectation was everybody helps everyone with everything.

Then the addons started tracking meters, then LFG, GearScore, and other tools – and the MMO grew from 4 million to 8, then 10+, and it all just went sour.

But the biggest changes happened with two things: GearScore and LFG. Those two each brought in whole new levels of toxic attitude.

Jaall.3420:

Every game I have heard of that has introduced a gear inspect system and a DPS measuring system has succumb to extreme elitism by a handful of players, which ultimately ruins any kind of casual gameplay in the majority of dungeon runs etc. This is why I feel, even if it might not lead to this, the risk is too big for a game a lot of people enjoy for it’s laid back nature. I don’t think GW2 would benefit at all from this only to satisfy the minority of players and make it convenient for them to judge others.

My concern right there. And I was in GW1 before you could ping builds, and saw the community there change almost overnight when that was added…

i wish this game had no stats in armors, only runes, like pvp.

There is absolutely no doubt, that the introduction of an inspect feature WILL divide the community. No matter how much the people, who want it, try to say it won’t happen. It will. SO the question is simple: does Anet want the community to become elitist, or do they want it to stay as social as possible? That’s what will determine, if they will ever introduce an inspect system or not.

I see alot of people saying:
“This will lead to people demanding that you have the right build”
Well…
Isn’t it the purpose for your character to be the strongest it can be?
If you could inspect people, you could give them tips & help them out
But nooo… you guys are like, NO! WE WANT OUR PARTY TO BE WEAK! As long as we look good & we are able to steal gold from the party with our magic find.
Uggh, this new generation gaming logic, it makes me sad

CoRtex.2157:

I see alot of people saying:
“This will lead to people demanding that you have the right build”
Well…
Isn’t it the purpose for your character to be the strongest it can be?
If you could inspect people, you could give them tips & help them out
But nooo… you guys are like, NO! WE WANT OUR PARTY TO BE WEAK! As long as we look good & we are able to steal gold from the party with our magic find.
Uggh, this new generation gaming logic, it makes me sad

Nobody said anything like this. Seriously. Read the thread before you post. All these people not reading the posts, then assuming something is being said and trolling about it instead of taking constructive part in the discussion. Now THAT is sad.

No. I love this game for its minimal amount of h4rdc0r3 elitist taints. Keep it that way.

CoRtex.2157:

I see alot of people saying:
“This will lead to people demanding that you have the right build”
Well…
Isn’t it the purpose for your character to be the strongest it can be?
If you could inspect people, you could give them tips & help them out
But nooo… you guys are like, NO! WE WANT OUR PARTY TO BE WEAK! As long as we look good & we are able to steal gold from the party with our magic find.
Uggh, this new generation gaming logic, it makes me sad

Nope. Wrong on every point.

If a class can viably be “as strong as it can be”, then there is now one build per class. And you know well that nobody is going to give constructive, welcome, asked-for tips. Unless you’ve never played an MMO before.

Jemmi.6058:

penatbater.4710:

Rising Dusk.2408:

I wish I could inspect my guildies so I could help them with their builds more easily. Without one, whenever they ask for build help, they have to ping a dozen items and write a veritable couple paragraphs to communicate their traits and things.

Having an inspect feature in PvE would no more foster elitism than what we already have. Mean people require you to ping your stuff or you’re kicked, don’t play with them. Limiting players from being able to inspect just on account of the bad people that will be there anyway is terrible.

They should absolutely carry the inspect from PvP over to PvE.

It’s not that we don’t like this on account of bad people. It’s just that the presence of a /inspect would FOSTER people to be critical of other people, whether or not they perceive them to be good builds or bad.

Except you have 0 evidence to prove that. This game is already more elitist than any other game I have played in. I played WoW too, and never felt the same sort of pressure to have one build or play-style forced upon me. Having inspect and damage meters allowed me to improve myself by watching other people and using these tools. Here, I have to resort to the forums to learn how to play the game.

It feels like we are punishing everyone, because some people previously had bad experiences with it. It’d be like saying no one is allowed to drive in this city, because a few people were in car accidents in that city a few states over.

Have you played LOL? That game’s community is infinitely more toxic that GW2. And I suspect other highly competitive games or other MOBA also foster toxic attitudes. It’s like meeting a nice and friendly person is such a gem there, whereas it’s the norm here.

Honestly, the only place I see /inspect would be ok is in pvp.

This is the kind of tool that can be abused and could have no positive impact on a community at all.

The abuse of this tool would be by players to determine if they want an individual in their group or not. On the surface this may not seem like a big deal however you need to think of the intelligence driving these decisions

The vast majority of the ‘cookie cutter’ build players are not creative. That is why they copied a build from a forum in the first place. It ‘may’ be a good build but in GW2 there is no such thing as a best build. This cookie cutter build was somebodies creation that fit their playstyle and they found very effective, and decided to share with the community. There are MANY creative people out there who have found very good builds or continue to evolve the ones on the forums to fit their needs better and never had time or inclination to share their findings. The average ‘cookie cutter’ player is not likely to have experimented and learned their class enough to even be qualified to understand what is good or not in a build of their own class, let alone someone elses.

So… whilst there may be plenty of individuals who would use the inspect feature in an honourable fashion or even use it to ask questions about someones build or gear choices to get a better understanding of what it is they are capable of… there would be even more incidents of people being either excluded from groups or forced into sub par builds to join one and thus their fun is diminished either way.

I am perfectly capable of making my own builds and tailoring them to what i want, i do not need some scrub holding me back by requesting i conform to his ill-conceived notion of what is best.

So in closing… whilst it would be nice not to have someone running a MF gear set i am willing to take it on faith that they have gear and build designed to work together and know how to play what they have, because the alternative being asked for here is just far worse overall.

Kichwas.7152:

Wethospu.6437:

TooBz.3065:

Wethospu.6437:

TooBz.3065:

Wethospu.6437:

Like specifically asking for someone with good damage and then getting shout-heal Hammer Warrior with Vit/Prec/Heal gear?
If you are fine with “elitist” parties then what’s the issue with providing necessary tools?

3) An inspect tool discourages build diversity. Everyone will gravitate toward a couple of builds that the elitist consider acceptable. (See 1)

And why do you care? It’s their group.
Why must every group be exactly like you want?

Don’t turn this around. You are the ones saying that every group has to be they way you want it. And you want to impose an inspect function so that you can ensure that there is no variation from the “ideal.”

Umm, no. We only care about our own group.

No you don’t, not if you’re calling for shoving an inspect tool up us all…

How is an inspect-tool telling you what kind of group you should create or join?

Lots of you seem to think that an inspect is bad because it may encourage groups which you don’t like. Even if it did, who are you tell to what kind of groups we should have?
Everyone can make their own group. Why can’t you simply make your and allow everyone in? Why must all groups be like that?

ITT: people wearing shameful gear and not wanting to be called out on it

Also, bonus fun fact: as awesome and Hold Your Owny you are with your carrion/rabid condi build, you’d be even better with a good build and gear setup. The only reason you think you do so well in dungeons is because there isn’t a DPS meter, so you don’t realize how much you’re being carried. Or because you typically play with other completely sub-optimal players and you have no idea what a damage-optimized group is capable of (hint: you don’t get sub-60 seconds on Lupicus in Cleric’s).

You already don’t want to run with people who would rather everyone run co-ordinated builds set up for maximum damage, and we would rather not run with you either, so why not have a tool that makes it easier for us to segregate from each other?

I mean, crying “elitism” usually implies that there’s some gated content that you won’t be able to get into because of the zerker build folks keeping everyone else out. But trust me, there would be absolutely no shortage of people still looking to form up Nothing Matters, Play Whatever You Like Cause It Doesn’t Make Any Difference groups. In fact, you’d still be the vast majority.

Broadicea.8294:

ITT: people wearing shameful gear and not wanting to be called out on it

Also, bonus fun fact: as awesome and Hold Your Owny you are with your carrion/rabid condi build, you’d be even better with a good build and gear setup. The only reason you think you do so well in dungeons is because there isn’t a DPS meter, so you don’t realize how much you’re being carried. Or because you typically play with other completely sub-optimal players and you have no idea what a damage-optimized group is capable of (hint: you don’t get sub-60 seconds on Lupicus in Cleric’s).

You already don’t want to run with people who would rather everyone run co-ordinated builds set up for maximum damage, and we would rather not run with you either, so why not have a tool that makes it easier for us to segregate from each other?

I mean, crying “elitism” usually implies that there’s some gated content that you won’t be able to get into because of the zerker build folks keeping everyone else out. But trust me, there would be absolutely no shortage of people still looking to form up Nothing Matters, Play Whatever You Like Cause It Doesn’t Make Any Difference groups. In fact, you’d still be the vast majority.

So then carrion and rabid goes to the shunned gear list. That makes it 3 gear sets now. This is exactly why we don’t need an inspect tool – you yourself are shortening down “good builds” to one build – your build.

You don’t want to play with us and we don’t want to play with you, why not allow this segregation to happen quicker and easier?

Edit: just to be clear, my argument is from the perspective of running dungeons, not sPvP or WvW, or open world PvE.

Broadicea.8294:

ITT: people wearing shameful gear and not wanting to be called out on it

I use one character, cliche’ glass cannon, best possible gear in the game. And I am VERY against inspection.

I’m not sure why this isn’t even in the game. People are gonna check your gear anyway, by getting you to ping it. There’s really no reason an inspect option ISN’T in the game.

Elitism comes along with it – but if someone is advertising a speedrun and kicks you for being PVT, you had no room joining that group and were being ignorant by do so.

Rather than complaining it will segregate players, perhaps they should think about joining likeminded groups?

Just my 2c.