Guild Wars 2

Razeor.6271:

Kopipoki.3542:

People should play in order to enjoy the game NOT to maximize efficiency.(GW2 isn’t a job after all)

Oh the it’s not a job I don’t care about efficiency excuse. Efficiency isn’t exclusive to fun, and it’s built into gameplay whether you like it or not. Please don’t upgrade your gears to exotics or even rares, or take no trait points if you want to preach that idea.

I never said people shouldn’t play efficiently what I said was they shouldn’t try to maximize efficiency. There comes a point where trying to be more efficient detracts from enjoyment.

Kopipoki.3542:

I never said people shouldn’t play efficiently what I said was they shouldn’t try to maximize efficiency. There comes a point where trying to be more efficient detracts from enjoyment.

For you. Don’t tell me how to play or what’s fun for me.

I’m going to say one last thing as food for thought regarding this debate.

“Play as you want.” is akin to “The Freedom of Speech” and should be treated as such. Anyone can say whatever they like, however, there are consequences to what is said in some form (break ups, being punched in the face, slander allegations, banning for being offensive, kitten word replacements, etc.) As a society we also discourage bad behaviors that determinedly to society as a whole (racism, bigotry, swindlers, lairs, etc). Play as you want is the same. You can play as you want but you may run into consequences and bad behaviors should never be encouraged as it’s harmful to the community.

An /inspect feature will do more harm to the GW2 community than bring people together. It’s not that you shouldn’t be allowed to play as you want but your bad behaviors should most certainly be discouraged by the community and the developers. The game was developed so that everyone could have there “fair shake” and ‘elitists’ take that right out of other players’ hands. It’s bad behavior for this game as it’s not in part with the way the game was created.

Herr der Friedhoefe.2490:

Because my gear is none of your frigging business.

So much this. I play my way, how you think I should is completely irrelevant. You didn’t pay for my copy of the game or my connection.

Broadicea.8294:

ITT: people wearing shameful gear and not wanting to be called out on it

Also, bonus fun fact: as awesome and Hold Your Owny you are with your carrion/rabid condi build, you’d be even better with a good build and gear setup. The only reason you think you do so well in dungeons is because there isn’t a DPS meter, so you don’t realize how much you’re being carried. Or because you typically play with other completely sub-optimal players and you have no idea what a damage-optimized group is capable of (hint: you don’t get sub-60 seconds on Lupicus in Cleric’s).

You already don’t want to run with people who would rather everyone run co-ordinated builds set up for maximum damage, and we would rather not run with you either, so why not have a tool that makes it easier for us to segregate from each other?

I mean, crying “elitism” usually implies that there’s some gated content that you won’t be able to get into because of the zerker build folks keeping everyone else out. But trust me, there would be absolutely no shortage of people still looking to form up Nothing Matters, Play Whatever You Like Cause It Doesn’t Make Any Difference groups. In fact, you’d still be the vast majority.

This. So much.

Sleel.8365:

Herr der Friedhoefe.2490:

Because my gear is none of your frigging business.

So much this. I play my way, how you think I should is completely irrelevant. You didn’t pay for my copy of the game or my connection.

The difference between you folks in the Against /Inspect crowd and those of us in the For crowd: I want you to be able to play your way! In your own groups! It’s unfortunate that you don’t extend the same courtesy to us.

Broadicea.8294:

ITT: people wearing shameful gear and not wanting to be called out on it

Ooh, ooh, I can play!

ITT: Stop Having Fun Guys demanding another tool to make everyone else stop having fun

Herr der Friedhoefe.2490:

Because my gear is none of your frigging business.

Well said, and I definitely agree! Furthermore I would like ANet to make combat possible in town clothes, that way I can look like I’m just running around in stylish pants (no shirt/shoes/gloves or hat) but still have the boons of my hidden armor. That would be fantastic.

Those that want the /inspect function should simply make a guild called “flashers” or “l33t dud35” or something and as a requirement for new members get them to ping their gear to prove they are rich enough to be associated with them. Then, just party with that guild as you know all those members have equipment that pass your efficiency gear gate. Shouldn’t be that hard?

Firefly.5982:

CoRtex.2157:

I see alot of people saying:
“This will lead to people demanding that you have the right build”
Well…
Isn’t it the purpose for your character to be the strongest it can be?
If you could inspect people, you could give them tips & help them out
But nooo… you guys are like, NO! WE WANT OUR PARTY TO BE WEAK! As long as we look good & we are able to steal gold from the party with our magic find.
Uggh, this new generation gaming logic, it makes me sad

Nobody said anything like this. Seriously. Read the thread before you post. All these people not reading the posts, then assuming something is being said and trolling about it instead of taking constructive part in the discussion. Now THAT is sad.

>_< the post is full of people hating on elitism… Hating on elitism is like hating that someone else is better than you. And that’s pathetic.. cus it’s a game. Just imagine you hate people because they are good in a certain sport. It’s just sad what gamers have become these days. Why no /inspect? do you have something to hide? I don’t get it. It’s sad & pathetic.

Jemmi.6058:

I feel you did not fully grasp the meaning of my post. You said that it is useless to add a tool that is convenient, because there are other methods of doing the task. I was saying that it is silly to say that convenient tools are useless, because there are other ways of doing said tasks, by providing some examples.

I can respect the reasoning of many that they feel it will foster elitism etc. I do disagree with that, however. I cannot respect the reasoning that there is already a way to do it, so don’t make it better. This is how we progress as a society, we are constantly tweaking things, adding tools and modifying ways to improve the ways we do the same tasks. There doesn’t have to be a problem to fix, there can simply be progress.

-snip-

I disagree that this kind of thing encourages what you think it encourages.

You’re free to feel that way. However, the objective fact of the matter is that this kind of behavior is already apparent with the gear ping mechanic.

It follows that adding something that takes this a step even further, an invasive /inspect option, would simply empower this mindset.

It would exasperate what is only a minor fringe problem.

I’m still trying to understand your logic here: You consider it inconvenient to CTRL click your gear into chat, yet you want an option to type out /inspect to gain the same result?

Seriously?

Well, you know what? I just solved everyone’s problem: If typing /inspect literally just CTRL clicked all your gear in chat for folks to see, I’d be okay with it.

If it’s something that can be forced out of a player or used on the player without the players consent, that’s not okay.

I respect the right a min/max gamer has to play the game in anyway they see fit, but that right ends where my freedom of choice and a right to privacy begins.

It’s none of your business what I’m using or what I’m running unless I choose to share with you.

Making an elaborate gear check mechanism beyond what is already in place is folly.

You talk to folks, you get to know them, you get together with honest and like minded individuals to do whatever you want in the game.

Gear ping works wonderfully to that end. It’s a perfect compromise between things. You can share or choose not too.
_

If it ain’t broke, don’t fix it.

penatbater.4710:

it’ll lead to elitism.

For most of the time I’ve played GW2 I thought the same thing. Until I was doing a Fractal a week or so ago and I encountered a player who quite obviously didn’t belong at the level we were at as they had no AR. And not only that whenever they died to agony they just stood around for a few minutes.

At the end of the run (we gave the person the benefit of the doubt and didn’t kick them) the person said something along the lines of “you guys are a good carry <3” fully acknowledging they knew what they were doing. That coming after I told the person to not join fractals they aren’t ready for and they replied with “I know, this will be my last time”.

I’m not sure if an inspect feature is what the game needs but it sure would have saved us a lot of frustration in that scenario.

Broadicea.8294:

Sleel.8365:

Herr der Friedhoefe.2490:

Because my gear is none of your frigging business.

So much this. I play my way, how you think I should is completely irrelevant. You didn’t pay for my copy of the game or my connection.

The difference between you folks in the Against /Inspect crowd and those of us in the For crowd: I want you to be able to play your way! In your own groups! It’s unfortunate that you don’t extend the same courtesy to us.

Wrong. I hear all of you LFGing all the time and I don’t bother replying to you. YOU telling me you have the right to look at MY gear is not showing me respect. YOU have no right to SNOOP on me. Inspect isn’t PING, INSPECT is you looking without my permissions, hence not showing respect.

I show you plenty of respect for your style of gaming by not wasting my time or your by trying to get in your group. You seem to think that respect is you having the right to snoop on ppl cause you want to. My gear is none of your kitten business unless I CHOOSE to link it.

CoRtex.2157:

Firefly.5982:

CoRtex.2157:

I see alot of people saying:
“This will lead to people demanding that you have the right build”
Well…
Isn’t it the purpose for your character to be the strongest it can be?
If you could inspect people, you could give them tips & help them out
But nooo… you guys are like, NO! WE WANT OUR PARTY TO BE WEAK! As long as we look good & we are able to steal gold from the party with our magic find.
Uggh, this new generation gaming logic, it makes me sad

Nobody said anything like this. Seriously. Read the thread before you post. All these people not reading the posts, then assuming something is being said and trolling about it instead of taking constructive part in the discussion. Now THAT is sad.

>_< the post is full of people hating on elitism… Hating on elitism is like hating that someone else is better than you. And that’s pathetic.. cus it’s a game. Just imagine you hate people because they are good in a certain sport. It’s just sad what gamers have become these days. Why no /inspect? do you have something to hide? I don’t get it. It’s sad & pathetic.

What a bs argument. It holds as much water as the whack jobs saying being stopped by cops for a random inspection is ok, what? you got something to hide? My stuff is none of your business. You want to know what I have, you can bloody well ask, and if I care enough, I’ll link it.

Nothing to hide. Well, if you have nothing to hide in your life, let “them” put a camera in every room in your house.
My privacy is mine, you have no say in the matter.

Just as a test for those who want the /inspect function – say there’s a new dungeon instance for the living story which is pretty tough, but supposedly upscales everyone to do it. You get there and there are two groups waiting to get a fifth person (because it’s one of those, forced 5 man things) – also you have the inspect function and can see that:

One team is full of level 80s decked out in full exotics.
One team is composed of under level 30s that have maybe greens at best.
You have never met anyone in either of the teams before.

First question: This is your first time running the dungeon. Which group do you join?
Second question: You have run it before and got all the achievements but it’s a pretty good farm. Which group do you join?

Joseph Skyrim.2470:

Just as a test for those who want the /inspect function – say there’s a new dungeon instance for the living story which is pretty tough, but supposedly upscales everyone to do it. You get there and there are two groups waiting to get a fifth person (because it’s one of those, forced 5 man things) – also you have the inspect function and can see that:

One team is full of level 80s decked out in full exotics.
One team is composed of under level 30s that have maybe greens at best.
You have never met anyone in either of the teams before.

First question: This is your first time running the dungeon. Which group do you join?
Second question: You have run it before and got all the achievements but it’s a pretty good farm. Which group do you join?

Common sense is common sense. But I don’t want to make the group carry me. I must do my part also. I must make my level 80 character geared to perform optimally in the dungeon so all the members in our party are in equal footing.

And they could /inspect that for all they want. At least I did my part.

alcopaul.2156:

Joseph Skyrim.2470:

Just as a test for those who want the /inspect function – say there’s a new dungeon instance for the living story which is pretty tough, but supposedly upscales everyone to do it. You get there and there are two groups waiting to get a fifth person (because it’s one of those, forced 5 man things) – also you have the inspect function and can see that:

One team is full of level 80s decked out in full exotics.
One team is composed of under level 30s that have maybe greens at best.
You have never met anyone in either of the teams before.

First question: This is your first time running the dungeon. Which group do you join?
Second question: You have run it before and got all the achievements but it’s a pretty good farm. Which group do you join?

Common sense is common sense. But I don’t want to make the group carry me. I must do my part also. I must make my level 80 character geared to perform optimally in the dungeon so all the members in our party are in equal footing.

And they could /inspect that for all they want. At least I did my part.

I see. Now say the lev 80 full exotic group is full and only the other one remains, would you party with them (with your level 80 efficient killer) or just wait until more level 80s show up, because you don’t want to “carry” them (not knowing if they may actually be good players just be levelling their n-th alts)?

More broadly, would you ever party with players who you view as your “lessers” if you don’t know them?

Broadicea.8294:

Sleel.8365:

Herr der Friedhoefe.2490:

Because my gear is none of your frigging business.

So much this. I play my way, how you think I should is completely irrelevant. You didn’t pay for my copy of the game or my connection.

The difference between you folks in the Against /Inspect crowd and those of us in the For crowd: I want you to be able to play your way! In your own groups! It’s unfortunate that you don’t extend the same courtesy to us.

I can’t speak for the rest of “us,” but I do want you to be able to play your way. I just would prefer that the tool you want for your convenience not be something that will anger others. You may not see the negatives to unfettered /inspect, but they exist. Since you and others are looking for a tool to root out liars and posers, surely you can see that griefers who might misuse the tool also exist.

I could sign an inspect with an opt-out, though I’d prefer a “ping all gear with one click” feature.

Jemmi.6058:

penatbater.4710:

Jemmi.6058:

penatbater.4710:

Rising Dusk.2408:

I wish I could inspect my guildies so I could help them with their builds more easily. Without one, whenever they ask for build help, they have to ping a dozen items and write a veritable couple paragraphs to communicate their traits and things.

Having an inspect feature in PvE would no more foster elitism than what we already have. Mean people require you to ping your stuff or you’re kicked, don’t play with them. Limiting players from being able to inspect just on account of the bad people that will be there anyway is terrible.

They should absolutely carry the inspect from PvP over to PvE.

It’s not that we don’t like this on account of bad people. It’s just that the presence of a /inspect would FOSTER people to be critical of other people, whether or not they perceive them to be good builds or bad.

Except you have 0 evidence to prove that. This game is already more elitist than any other game I have played in. I played WoW too, and never felt the same sort of pressure to have one build or play-style forced upon me. Having inspect and damage meters allowed me to improve myself by watching other people and using these tools. Here, I have to resort to the forums to learn how to play the game.

It feels like we are punishing everyone, because some people previously had bad experiences with it. It’d be like saying no one is allowed to drive in this city, because a few people were in car accidents in that city a few states over.

Have you played LOL? That game’s community is infinitely more toxic that GW2. And I suspect other highly competitive games or other MOBA also foster toxic attitudes. It’s like meeting a nice and friendly person is such a gem there, whereas it’s the norm here.

Honestly, the only place I see /inspect would be ok is in pvp.

Nope, I never have played LoL. Guess it’s a good thing. I think you and I just see totally different uses for /inspect, as I don’t think it matters if it is in PvP or PvE as I’d use it the same way either way.

From my POV right now, the people who are anti inspect and anti LFG auto groupers etc are the ones who sound the most elitist. It seems like everyone who is against it thinks that because they don’t like it, no one should be able to have it. Why not have the option for it and if you don’t want it, find like-minded friends and guild with them and don’t use it. Let those of us who like them to use them? Pro choice.

Really? You think those of use who are against inspect are the most elitist? How pathetic! We have stated many reasons why were are against it and yet you continued to ignore it. Yet you pull fake claims from your kitten as to why we are against it or that we are elitist.. This community is beginning to be just as pathetic as the wow community…

Stop beating the dead horse! He’s dead already…. I think it is time for this post to be locked.. Here on out everything just becomes repetitive.

Neeeeiiiigh! Neeeiiiigh!

Wait wait… whack!

Ok now it’s dead.

:(

Seriously though, I love horses. Please don’t kill them.

Also, while it may be going in circles closing this will just make someone spawn a new topic of more of the same.

Undead horse. Dun dun dunnnnnn! (<—- that was supposed to be scary music)

Joseph Skyrim.2470:

Neeeeiiiigh! Neeeiiiigh!

Wait wait… whack!

Ok now it’s dead.

:(

Seriously though, I love horses. Please don’t kill them.

Also, while it may be going in circles closing this will just make someone spawn a new topic of more of the same.

Undead horse. Dun dun dunnnnnn! (<—- that was supposed to be scary music)

ROFLMAO! I love horses too and no I would not hurt them. That almost sounded like Jaws music..grin.. And you are probably right about the spawning of a new thread.

Eladriel.7295:

Really? You think those of use who are against inspect are the most elitist? How pathetic! We have stated many reasons why were are against it and yet you continued to ignore it. Yet you pull fake claims from your kitten as to why we are against it or that we are elitist.. This community is beginning to be just as pathetic as the wow community…

Except, your arguments all boil down to ‘I don’t want to be excluded for running a terrible build’. You also all seem to be under the impression that you will be kicked once someone sees you’re running Knights or Soldier’s for example. Whilst I personally despise Soldier’s gear, I know it has it’s uses, and it can be a crutch for newer players to harder content, because of survivability.

There is a long way to go between ‘pants-on-head-kittened builds’ and ‘zerker or gtfo’ builds.

And to be honest, the anti-elitist crowd in here IS acting more elitist than the actual elitist crowd. It’s like looking at a group of gay people beating the ever living kitten out of someone for just saying he thinks being gay is unnatural (for the record, I don’t believe that, it’s just an analogy), and then feeling morally superior for doing so.

Joseph Skyrim.2470:

alcopaul.2156:

Joseph Skyrim.2470:

Just as a test for those who want the /inspect function – say there’s a new dungeon instance for the living story which is pretty tough, but supposedly upscales everyone to do it. You get there and there are two groups waiting to get a fifth person (because it’s one of those, forced 5 man things) – also you have the inspect function and can see that:

One team is full of level 80s decked out in full exotics.
One team is composed of under level 30s that have maybe greens at best.
You have never met anyone in either of the teams before.

First question: This is your first time running the dungeon. Which group do you join?
Second question: You have run it before and got all the achievements but it’s a pretty good farm. Which group do you join?

Common sense is common sense. But I don’t want to make the group carry me. I must do my part also. I must make my level 80 character geared to perform optimally in the dungeon so all the members in our party are in equal footing.

And they could /inspect that for all they want. At least I did my part.

I see. Now say the lev 80 full exotic group is full and only the other one remains, would you party with them (with your level 80 efficient killer) or just wait until more level 80s show up, because you don’t want to “carry” them (not knowing if they may actually be good players just be levelling their n-th alts)?

More broadly, would you ever party with players who you view as your “lessers” if you don’t know them?

Depends on my mood. if i’m on a fixed schedule, i might log off. if i got lots of time to burn with my hands, i might give it a shot. I’m a human being so I’m familiar with words such as compassion and understanding. I will group with them for F’s sake or for the sake of playing with other people.

I didn’t imply that i don’t want to carry them. I said i don’t want to be carried or burden my team, so i do my part of raising a character to 80 and gearing it (exotic or getting +AR) before i do dungeons. Because I’m a sensitive person. If i always die on a party, it immediately comes to my head the things that goes on to their heads, especially if they make side comments on party chat if you know what i mean.

why is being /inspected considered an “invasion of privacy?” I would consider it more of an inconvenience if i got msged all the time “Hey man can you link me your sword i wanna see what it is?”

I mean, if your toon is sitting in lion’s arch while your afk, and i come up, /inspect you, check out your cool gear, and leave…what’s the issue? How do you even know you got inspected??

If someone wants to see your gear before a dungeon, i can understand your objection. But if the dungeon your running is contingent on your gear (aka full zerker CoF) and you don’t want to share you gear, you probably don’t belong there in the first place. You may be perfectly capable of completing the dungeon, but you still lack the requested criteria for the group. If said criteria was not specifically requested initially, (if you joined an all classes welcome, but the party leader says you need zerker gear) then someone else messed up.

tl;dr /inspect =/= invasion of privacy

This has been discussed to death and back.

It’s pretty simple: most people of any value or relevance think it’s a good idea, bad players and leeches think it’s the devil cause they’re afraid they can’t be carried anymore. Good players think it’s a good idea/don’t care because, worse case scenario, they just don’t party with people they wouldn’t want to party with anyways. Crappy players know they’ll take longer to find a party and it’ll mostly be others like them, so nobody will drag them along.

Done to death. This particular horse isn’t even a carcass anymore but a fine paste. Game needs inspect for better pugging. Will, hopefully, get it eventually, but hardly a priority. Meanwhile just try to stick with partying with people you know. As of right now I don’t join random parties unless I know more others in it, and that we’re all good enough to carry the rest. And usually when one of us is the leader so we can kick any dead weight “too heavy” to carry.

I can not believe, this thread is 10 pages long. Arguments pro and con just keep repeating itself.

Just add a voluntary /inspect, that can be turned on or off by every individual player – the ones that want to be inspected can be, the ones that want their privacy can keep it. Done Deal.

Bright.9160:

Except, your arguments all boil down to ‘I don’t want to be excluded for running a terrible build’. You also all seem to be under the impression that you will be kicked once someone sees you’re running Knights or Soldier’s for example. Whilst I personally despise Soldier’s gear, I know it has it’s uses, and it can be a crutch for newer players to harder content, because of survivability.

There is a long way to go between ‘pants-on-head-kittened builds’ and ‘zerker or gtfo’ builds.

And to be honest, the anti-elitist crowd in here IS acting more elitist than the actual elitist crowd. It’s like looking at a group of gay people beating the ever living kitten out of someone for just saying he thinks being gay is unnatural (for the record, I don’t believe that, it’s just an analogy), and then feeling morally superior for doing so.

ProxyDamage.9826:

This has been discussed to death and back.

It’s pretty simple: most people of any value or relevance think it’s a good idea, bad players and leeches think it’s the devil cause they’re afraid they can’t be carried anymore. Good players think it’s a good idea/don’t care because, worse case scenario, they just don’t party with people they wouldn’t want to party with anyways. Crappy players know they’ll take longer to find a party and it’ll mostly be others like them, so nobody will drag them along.

Done to death. This particular horse isn’t even a carcass anymore but a fine paste. Game needs inspect for better pugging. Will, hopefully, get it eventually, but hardly a priority. Meanwhile just try to stick with partying with people you know. As of right now I don’t join random parties unless I know more others in it, and that we’re all good enough to carry the rest. And usually when one of us is the leader so we can kick any dead weight “too heavy” to carry.

Remember: If you’re against /inspect, you’re obviously a crappy build / bad player / leech. Oh, and you’re the elitist too.

Now if you’ll excuse me, I’m gonna have to get my cognitive dissonance meter replaced. These suckers aren’t cheap…

CETheLucid.3964:

Jemmi.6058:

I feel you did not fully grasp the meaning of my post. You said that it is useless to add a tool that is convenient, because there are other methods of doing the task. I was saying that it is silly to say that convenient tools are useless, because there are other ways of doing said tasks, by providing some examples.

I can respect the reasoning of many that they feel it will foster elitism etc. I do disagree with that, however. I cannot respect the reasoning that there is already a way to do it, so don’t make it better. This is how we progress as a society, we are constantly tweaking things, adding tools and modifying ways to improve the ways we do the same tasks. There doesn’t have to be a problem to fix, there can simply be progress.

-snip-

I disagree that this kind of thing encourages what you think it encourages.

You’re free to feel that way. However, the objective fact of the matter is that this kind of behavior is already apparent with the gear ping mechanic.

It follows that adding something that takes this a step even further, an invasive /inspect option, would simply empower this mindset.

It would exasperate what is only a minor fringe problem.

I’m still trying to understand your logic here: You consider it inconvenient to CTRL click your gear into chat, yet you want an option to type out /inspect to gain the same result?

Seriously?

Well, you know what? I just solved everyone’s problem: If typing /inspect literally just CTRL clicked all your gear in chat for folks to see, I’d be okay with it.

If it’s something that can be forced out of a player or used on the player without the players consent, that’s not okay.

I respect the right a min/max gamer has to play the game in anyway they see fit, but that right ends where my freedom of choice and a right to privacy begins.

It’s none of your business what I’m using or what I’m running unless I choose to share with you.

Making an elaborate gear check mechanism beyond what is already in place is folly.

You talk to folks, you get to know them, you get together with honest and like minded individuals to do whatever you want in the game.

Gear ping works wonderfully to that end. It’s a perfect compromise between things. You can share or choose not too.
_

If it ain’t broke, don’t fix it.

I do not want /inspect actually, my preference is right click inspect. Having both options would be fine though.

I also have said that the ping gear option is limited in comparison to what an inspect function can do, so they are not the same thing.

I cannot relate to your desire for privacy, but if that is a serious concern there are suggestions in this thread to adhere to such desires. Example: make inspect toggleable, so you can prevent people from inspecting you, or add in a settings, so that only guildmates, party members and friends list can inspect you, or add in a pop up that says “X is trying to inspect you, approve/decline” (personally I do not like option 3).

I’ve also clearly stated that I could not care less about min-maxing and that is not related to why I want an inspect feature.

Uruz Six.6594:

Bright.9160:

Except, your arguments all boil down to ‘I don’t want to be excluded for running a terrible build’. You also all seem to be under the impression that you will be kicked once someone sees you’re running Knights or Soldier’s for example. Whilst I personally despise Soldier’s gear, I know it has it’s uses, and it can be a crutch for newer players to harder content, because of survivability.

There is a long way to go between ‘pants-on-head-kittened builds’ and ‘zerker or gtfo’ builds.

And to be honest, the anti-elitist crowd in here IS acting more elitist than the actual elitist crowd. It’s like looking at a group of gay people beating the ever living kitten out of someone for just saying he thinks being gay is unnatural (for the record, I don’t believe that, it’s just an analogy), and then feeling morally superior for doing so.

ProxyDamage.9826:

This has been discussed to death and back.

It’s pretty simple: most people of any value or relevance think it’s a good idea, bad players and leeches think it’s the devil cause they’re afraid they can’t be carried anymore. Good players think it’s a good idea/don’t care because, worse case scenario, they just don’t party with people they wouldn’t want to party with anyways. Crappy players know they’ll take longer to find a party and it’ll mostly be others like them, so nobody will drag them along.

Done to death. This particular horse isn’t even a carcass anymore but a fine paste. Game needs inspect for better pugging. Will, hopefully, get it eventually, but hardly a priority. Meanwhile just try to stick with partying with people you know. As of right now I don’t join random parties unless I know more others in it, and that we’re all good enough to carry the rest. And usually when one of us is the leader so we can kick any dead weight “too heavy” to carry.

Remember: If you’re against /inspect, you’re obviously a crappy build / bad player / leech. Oh, and you’re the elitist too.

Now if you’ll excuse me, I’m gonna have to get my cognitive dissonance meter replaced. These suckers aren’t cheap…

Without using intentionally incendiary language, it seems the players that care most about performing at their best— through practice and fine-tuning gear and builds, are also the ones that would like to see /inspect.

The players that play for fun—-use builds they enjoy, don’t care about getting the most optimal gear—- are worried they will be subjected to the same standards as the top tier players. They feel that /inspect will expedite the “elitists” ability to subjugate players that don’t perform to their standards.

When in reality, neither group of player wants to play with the other. Which is natural, because they get different things out of the game. The only time you will be subjected to the “elitists” standards is when you try to compete with their ranks, which it sounds like the majority of people against /inspect try to avoid already.

So, let’s try to be more open minded, and realize that you payed $60 bucks to play this game your way. No tool is going to force you to play someone else’s way, unless that tool hijacks your character and allows someone to respec you.

Scrambles.2604:

Without using intentionally incendiary language, it seems the players that care most about performing at their best— through practice and fine-tuning gear and builds, are also the ones that would like to see /inspect.

The players that play for fun—-use builds they enjoy, don’t care about getting the most optimal gear—- are worried they will be subjected to the same standards as the top tier players. They feel that /inspect will expedite the “elitists” ability to subjugate players that don’t perform to their standards.

There are some of us who do care about optimal builds that don’t care about the /inspect either.I will judge your ability to play based on how you do in the dungeon, not what you are wearing.

That said, why am I against it? Because the people who want it the most, and abuse it the most, are folks who want to be CARRIED, not elitists. They don’t want their team to be optimal because it brings out the best in themselves; they want the team to be optimal so they can get run through by the best and have others make up for their own shortcomings.

When someone is forming a group and demanding specific stats/gear, the first thing I do is inspect THEM. And, in my experience, the majority of the time they come up lacking. Of course they throw out all kinds of BS excuses “I know what I’m doing! I’m the one forming the group!” And the rest of the well geared players get duped into this little scheme so he can get into an instance he is neither skilled nor geared for, simply by riding on the backs of the players around him.

I don’t use /inspect in any game, even when raiding. I’ll take you… and if you fail miserably to keep up with the pace of the group, I’ll replace you. I’ll give you a couple of chances, and I won’t judge you based on your gear. I will make the assumption that unless you specifically tell me “I don’t know if I’m geared for this”, that you know the requirements and are joining with that in mind.

Uruz Six.6594:

Remember: If you’re against /inspect, you’re obviously a crappy build / bad player / leech. Oh, and you’re the elitist too.

Now if you’ll excuse me, I’m gonna have to get my cognitive dissonance meter replaced. These suckers aren’t cheap…

Except, that’s not what I said. I said that the anti-elitists in this thread are circle jerking it even harder than the elitists are, effectively acting more elitist than the elitists.

Also, I’m one of the ‘elitists’ in this thread that is advocating the fact that there is a wide middle ground between bad builds and ‘play like me or gtfo’ builds, so quoting me for cognitive dissonance is pretty ironic.

Also, the fact that both sides of this thread effectively are saying ‘I don’t want to play with the other side anyway’ means that an inspect function would be less harmless than some people here seem to think.

Not to mention that their ‘privacy’ concerns are a joke…

But this entire discussion is pretty pointless anyway, since Anet has stated pretty clearly that they are against such a feature, and I’m pretty sure it will never be implemented.

Scrambles.2604:

When in reality, neither group of player wants to play with the other. Which is natural, because they get different things out of the game. The only time you will be subjected to the “elitists” standards is when you try to compete with their ranks, which it sounds like the majority of people against /inspect try to avoid already.

Well, here’s the thing.

/e raises hand like Captain Kirk asking why God needs a starship

If neither group of players want to play with each other, then why is either group PUG-ing in the first place?

It sounds to me the more reasonable assumption is if you want to keep your teams to your own standards, you do it with friends and guildies.

This reminds me for some reason about the viability of support builds in Rift arguments.

If the argument for inspect is to see the gear for the looks, then you could add inspect that give only item set name (ie Nobility, Barbaric, or Priory)

If the argument for inspect is that you want to make sure someone has X gear before getting in your group, then simply ask them to ping (even make a /inspect which will auto ping your gear) or don’t invite them to your group.

At the end of the day though, inspect for optimal performance means nothing because you still can’t see their traits, damage, and/or know if they know how to play the class/build. Inspect tells you nothing relevant about the player, just the gear they bought.

You can inspect now (finally some site uploaded option) since API was released. Thank you Arenanet, finally.

Uruz Six.6594:

Remember: If you’re against /inspect, you’re obviously a crappy build / bad player / leech. Oh, and you’re the elitist too.

Now if you’ll excuse me, I’m gonna have to get my cognitive dissonance meter replaced. These suckers aren’t cheap…

If not wanting dead weight in my party is elitism I’m elitist as hell and proud. I’m not forcing you to play with me, but you are trying to force me to play with you. All I want is to play with likeminded people. What the whole “anti-inspect” crowd seems to want is to deny me that, to force me to play with them regardless.

Give me ONE legitimate reason why inspect shouldn’t exist? If what you people claim is right, and you simply don’t care and just “play for fun”, whatever that means – as if everyone else plays for boredom and frustration, then what will this change for you? You’ll be kicked out of parties you wouldn’t want to be in in the first place. You’ll be rejected from parties with people like me, whom you seem to hate and not want to play with. If you’re being honest about your reasons, you lose nothing. If anything we do you a favor. If what you say is true and you don’t need me and people like me to do your job for you, then why do you want? Why not just make a party with other people like you?

And don’t give me “privacy” bullkitten. I’m not looking through your underwear I’m learning the material of the clothes you’re wearing.

Tolmos.8395:

That said, why am I against it? Because the people who want it the most, and abuse it the most, are folks who want to be CARRIED, not elitists. They don’t want their team to be optimal because it brings out the best in themselves; they want the team to be optimal so they can get run through by the best and have others make up for their own shortcomings.

this is a pretty wild claim, my friend. You’re gunna need to back this up with a little more information.

It seems the only people optimizing their runs are the standard 4 wars and a guardian zerker runs. And the only reason it is optimal is solely because the combination of the 5 individuals outputs the highest DPS. How does this involve being carried?

I mean, maybe if it was one person trying to swindle a bunch of zerker warriors to run them through, that would be more to your point…but that person certainly wouldn’t benefit from /inspect.

Sovta.4719:

You can inspect now (finally some site uploaded option) since API was released. Thank you Arenanet, finally.

link?

Sovta.4719:

You can inspect now (finally some site uploaded option) since API was released. Thank you Arenanet, finally.

I’m pretty sure that that should be an instalable mod and therefore is a bannable offense.

Sovta.4719:

You can inspect now (finally some site uploaded option) since API was released. Thank you Arenanet, finally.

Link for the love of god.

Uruz Six.6594:

Well, here’s the thing.

/e raises hand like Captain Kirk asking why God needs a starship

If neither group of players want to play with each other, then why is either group PUG-ing in the first place?

It sounds to me the more reasonable assumption is if you want to keep your teams to your own standards, you do it with friends and guildies.

Yeah, why is either group PUGing? It’s like…. I don’t know…. Sounds crazy but… Like you wanna meet and play with other like minded people… Crazy, I know!

PS: Difference being only one of those groups wants to force the other to play with them.

Uruz Six.6594:

Scrambles.2604:

When in reality, neither group of player wants to play with the other. Which is natural, because they get different things out of the game. The only time you will be subjected to the “elitists” standards is when you try to compete with their ranks, which it sounds like the majority of people against /inspect try to avoid already.

Well, here’s the thing.

/e raises hand like Captain Kirk asking why God needs a starship

If neither group of players want to play with each other, then why is either group PUG-ing in the first place?

It sounds to me the more reasonable assumption is if you want to keep your teams to your own standards, you do it with friends and guildies.

Personally, i rarely pug in-game. About 99% of my runs involve using gw2lfg.com.

On gw2lfg, you generally see two types of CoF p1 runs. “All classes welcome” and “Zerker war/guard/mes”

The difference is, one group just wants to run CoF (i fall into this group) and the other group wants to run CoF as fast and optimally as possible.

If you put together a run on gw2lfg with certain expectations, but don’t advertise them, then you only have yourself to blame.

Scrambles.2604:

Personally, i rarely pug in-game. About 99% of my runs involve using gw2lfg.com.

using gw2lfg is pugging -_-
Pugging means running with a group in which you don’t know the people – they’re not your guildies and not your friends.

Mirta.5029:

Scrambles.2604:

Personally, i rarely pug in-game. About 99% of my runs involve using gw2lfg.com.

using gw2lfg is pugging -_-
Pugging means running with a group in which you don’t know the people – they’re not your guildies and not your friends.

yeah, sorry. When i said “pug in-game” i meant i dont stand in LA shouting “LFG COF P1.” The point being, with gw2lfg, i have a better idea of the group i’m getting into.

The biggest problem, as has been mentioned a few times in this long thread, with an /inspect feature is the lack of privacy and user control.

A better solution, for both sides of the argument, would probably just be an easier way to ping your gear and skill build (like in GW1). If a group requires you do it, you may either comply or don’t. If you aren’t interested in sharing your build, then find another group. But at least this way, players have a choice of whether or not to share that information rather than having no control. If you are worried about a person’s gear based on efficiency or MF, then have them ping their gear and skills. If they don’t comply, then kick them from the group. It’s really not a big deal. Let people play the way they want to play. This thread proves that there are people out there who aren’t so picky about gear/playstyles (as long as they work) so you’re sure to find someone that will work for you.

lookitsandrea.8531:

The biggest problem, as has been mentioned a few times in this long thread, with an /inspect feature is the lack of privacy and user control.

A better solution, for both sides of the argument, would probably just be an easier way to ping your gear and skill build (like in GW1). If a group requires you do it, you may either comply or don’t. If you aren’t interested in sharing your build, then find another group. But at least this way, players have a choice of whether or not to share that information rather than having no control.

I posed this question earlier, and no one responded. But how is /inspect an invasion of privacy? I’m not trying to get your social security number, i’m just getting to see what type of gear and sockets you have.

In WoW, i could’ve been inspected one time, or a thousand times, i could never tell you, because i have no idea that i am being inspected.

lookitsandrea.8531:

The biggest problem, as has been mentioned a few times in this long thread, with an /inspect feature is the lack of privacy and user control.

What privacy? This is the stupidest argument possible… Am I “invading your privacy” when I look at your character in the game? I’m not reading your PMs or browsing through your inventory.

As mentioned before this isn’t like seeing through your clothes, it’s a pointing a machine at them that tells me what brand and/or material they are. You’re not even affected.

ProxyDamage.9826:

PS: Difference being only one of those groups wants to force the other to play with them.

From my previous post:

“If the argument for inspect is that you want to make sure someone has X gear before getting in your group, then simply ask them to ping (even make a /inspect which will auto ping your gear) or don’t invite them to your group.”

Neither group is being forced to do anything for anyone or by anyone. You have the tools to make the group composition as you see fit. An auto inspect feature is only for being able to critique someone else’s build, which is rude and presumptuous, unless invited by the person being critiqued upon themselves.

ProxyDamage.9826:

As mentioned before this isn’t like seeing through your clothes, it’s a pointing a machine at them that tells me what brand and/or material they are. You’re not even affected.

Using that same example, people want to wear cheap clothes that look like the expensive brands but without the high price. If you invent a tool that when pointed at the clothes tells you that the quality is lower they but cheaper they will be judged for it therefore they’re affected by it.

It’s kinda the same here, although I agree that using magic find etc in dungeons is a bad thing and don’t think it should ever be made viable, just making a point that this will affect people no matter what anyone says. Whether that’s right or wrong is anyones opinion but ultimately down to ANet to decide, and whether or not you want to agree with their choice and accept it is your choice.

Privacy: The state or condition of being free from being observed or disturbed by other people

The word privacy probably varies in definition based on your own personal opinion.

Privacy in an MMO to me (being completely aware that it is a game not real life) means that I can play the game how I want without being scrutinized, judged, watched by other players for x, y, z reasons. How I choose to play Guild Wars 2 is my business (/inspect would allow you to see the general type of build I am going for, the amount of time I may have spent in getting my exotic gear or a legendary, etc.).

I can, in a way, understand inspect in the form of group play. I cannot, however, justify inspect otherwise when you could simply ask or require players to ping their gear (but at least then the player has a choice of whether or not, therefore playing the game they want to).

Ordika.9513:

An auto inspect feature is only for being able to critique someone else’s build, which is rude and presumptuous, unless invited by the person being critiqued upon themselves.

This is a ridiculous claim. God forbid, i don’t have every piece of armor/weapon in the game memorized and i get curious as to what that shiny thing that person has equipped might be.

Or maybe i see an Ele that looks like they have a similar set-up as me and i want to see what kind of sockets they have.

I mean, who does that? Just goes around, inspecting people’s gear, for the sole purpose of making you feel bad. If someone exhibits that kind of behavior, it’s not because of /inspect, it’s probably because they are a bad person.