Guild Wars 2

Scrambles.2604:

Yet in GW2, almost every build/gear set can be successful and has proven to be viable for clearing any content, so long as you can dodge at the appropriate time.

Then what is the point of an inspect feature form the stand point of making sure someone has the right build/gear.

Ordika.9513:

Scrambles.2604:

Yet in GW2, almost every build/gear set can be successful and has proven to be viable for clearing any content, so long as you can dodge at the appropriate time.

Then what is the point of an inspect feature form the stand point of making sure someone has the right build/gear.

It would be useful if you’re running a zerker group—where the group is contingent on everyone running with zerker gear.

I said everything is viable, but that doesn’t mean there isn’t optimal builds as well. Everyone can succeed, but you have to optimize your play if you want to succeed the best.

Otherwise, if i’m running a dungeon with another Ele, it would no doubt be useful to /inspect them to see how i can switch my traits/weapons to compliment whatever they bring to the table. You may say “just ask them” but i rarely find time enough to articulate requests like that in a dungeon setting. It would be much easier just to /inspect.

Personally, i think the reasons to include inspect go well beyond just locking people out of dungeon groups based on gear. That is a primary function of /inspect for some people, but those people currently just make you ping your gear or disallow you based on looks. There are many other reasons to add inspect beyond the functionality of a dungeon settings but those have been covered over and over in this thread to a sickening degree.

Scrambles.2604:

I guess i assumed /inspect would be limited to people on your side, anyone without a “red” name. Yeah, of course i don’t want people on other servers seeing my build in WvW, i guess i made the mistake of assuming that was a given.

It was a given, but I still don’t want them to have it. Say I create a gem of a build- a real beast. Suddenly, Bob from my server sees this build in /inspect and goes “WOW! This is AWESOME!”. He starts using it.

A week later I’m browsing my class forums and see a new thread: “Bob’s Ultimate Build! Check out the awesomeness!”. And there it is. My build. With Bob’s name on it. That would be a double whammy- someone else taking credit for my build AND my build being thrown out to the general public.

Scrambles.2604:

Otherwise, i don’t see the harm of some lvl 10 that knows nothing about the game checking out your interesting spec in LA.

Most of the discussion has been directed towards PvE and dungeons. You don’t really want your dungeon teammates to have terrible builds do you? Wont that detract from your experience?

I would be happy to give them pointers, but not my entire build. If you have a winning strategy in a Real Time Strategy game, do you want everyone to know that strategy? Should you be required to tell EVERYONE that strategy so that everyone can use it? No, of course not. You are as good as you are because of that strategy combined with player skill. That strategy was concocted by you, and you deserve to be able to use it in the competitive setting it was designed for exclusively. No one else should be allowed to STEAL your strategy to win.

That said, it doesn’t mean you won’t give pointers to a new player. “Hey man, I really don’t think you need 100 pylons. I know they said they needed more, but maybe that’s a little overboard…”. You help them learn how to make their own builds, or aim them towards forums to find the good cookie cutters, so that one day they can create their own winning strategies.

Same thing here.

Scrambles.2604:

I guess i assumed /inspect would be limited to people on your side, anyone without a “red” name. Yeah, of course i don’t want people on other servers seeing my build in WvW, i guess i made the mistake of assuming that was a given.

Otherwise, i don’t see the harm of some lvl 10 that knows nothing about the game checking out your interesting spec in LA.

With guesting, that level 10 might be the same player as the one they just beat down in WvW.

I’ll leave behind my own reasons for not wanting /inspect, as they’ve been repeated over and over in this thread. Instead, I’ll second the statement that allowing /inspect will take away the advantage of working hard to devise a new build to use in PvP and WvW. If those two parts of the game are to be successful, it’s best to leave /inspect in the dust.

Tolmos.8395:

Scrambles.2604:

I guess i assumed /inspect would be limited to people on your side, anyone without a “red” name. Yeah, of course i don’t want people on other servers seeing my build in WvW, i guess i made the mistake of assuming that was a given.

It was a given, but I still don’t want them to have it. Say I create a gem of a build- a real beast. Suddenly, Bob from my server sees this build in /inspect and goes “WOW! This is AWESOME!”. He starts using it.

A week later I’m browsing my class forums and see a new thread: “Bob’s Ultimate Build! Check out the awesomeness!”. And there it is. My build. With Bob’s name on it. That would be a double whammy- someone else taking credit for my build AND my build being thrown out to the general public.

Scrambles.2604:

Otherwise, i don’t see the harm of some lvl 10 that knows nothing about the game checking out your interesting spec in LA.

Most of the discussion has been directed towards PvE and dungeons. You don’t really want your dungeon teammates to have terrible builds do you? Wont that detract from your experience?

I would be happy to give them pointers, but not my entire build. If you have a winning strategy in a Real Time Strategy game, do you want everyone to know that strategy? Should you be required to tell EVERYONE that strategy so that everyone can use it? No, of course not. You are as good as you are because of that strategy combined with player skill. That strategy was concocted by you, and you deserve to be able to use it in the competitive setting it was designed for exclusively. No one else should be allowed to STEAL your strategy to win.

That said, it doesn’t mean you won’t give pointers to a new player. “Hey man, I really don’t think you need 100 pylons. I know they said they needed more, but maybe that’s a little overboard…”. You help them learn how to make their own builds, or aim them towards forums to find the good cookie cutters, so that one day they can create their own winning strategies.

Same thing here.

You may think very highly of your own builds, but i guarantee you that no matter how unique your build is, someone you have never met before is out there running it.

And if your super-secret build is that awesome, someone else will discover it eventually and it will flourish as you fear, it is inevitable. If anything, you’re in the unique position to counter this build, since you are so established and familiar with it.

I guess my point is, you shouldn’t let the success of others negatively effect you, it’s not healthy.

I understand you concerns, but i dont think they carry enough weight to justify not adding /inspect. You may disagree all you want but i feel like i’ve adequately made my case.

Scrambles.2604:

Tolmos.8395:

Scrambles.2604:

I guess i assumed /inspect would be limited to people on your side, anyone without a “red” name. Yeah, of course i don’t want people on other servers seeing my build in WvW, i guess i made the mistake of assuming that was a given.

It was a given, but I still don’t want them to have it. Say I create a gem of a build- a real beast. Suddenly, Bob from my server sees this build in /inspect and goes “WOW! This is AWESOME!”. He starts using it.

A week later I’m browsing my class forums and see a new thread: “Bob’s Ultimate Build! Check out the awesomeness!”. And there it is. My build. With Bob’s name on it. That would be a double whammy- someone else taking credit for my build AND my build being thrown out to the general public.

Scrambles.2604:

Otherwise, i don’t see the harm of some lvl 10 that knows nothing about the game checking out your interesting spec in LA.

Most of the discussion has been directed towards PvE and dungeons. You don’t really want your dungeon teammates to have terrible builds do you? Wont that detract from your experience?

I would be happy to give them pointers, but not my entire build. If you have a winning strategy in a Real Time Strategy game, do you want everyone to know that strategy? Should you be required to tell EVERYONE that strategy so that everyone can use it? No, of course not. You are as good as you are because of that strategy combined with player skill. That strategy was concocted by you, and you deserve to be able to use it in the competitive setting it was designed for exclusively. No one else should be allowed to STEAL your strategy to win.

That said, it doesn’t mean you won’t give pointers to a new player. “Hey man, I really don’t think you need 100 pylons. I know they said they needed more, but maybe that’s a little overboard…”. You help them learn how to make their own builds, or aim them towards forums to find the good cookie cutters, so that one day they can create their own winning strategies.

Same thing here.

You may think very highly of your own builds, but i guarantee you that no matter how unique your build is, someone you have never met before is out there running it.

And if your super-secret build is that awesome, someone else will discover it eventually and it will flourish as you fear, it is inevitable. If anything, you’re in the unique position to counter this build, so you are so established and familiar with it.

I guess my point is, you shouldn’t let the success of others negatively effect you, it’s not healthy.

I understand you concerns, but i dont think they carry enough weight to justify not adding /inspect. You may disagree all you want but i feel like i’ve adequately made my case.

You have made your case, and it falls short. Your baseless assumption that because a build isn’t posted all over forums that it must not be good, or that there is no possibility of a unique build, is hardly anything to build a case on. So yes, you’ve expressed yourself excellently- there is simply very little to agree with on it.

I might point out, however, that my original post was in FAVOR of /inspect, so long as it is added with an opt out button for those of us who do not wish to partake. That costs you nothing, since you can treat those of us who opt out as if we have bad gear/a bad build, and move on. You lose nothing. I lose nothing. The only people who lose something are those who want to steal others builds. That’s it.

Because of that, I don’t even see why we are disagreeing…

Tolmos.8395:

You have made your case, and it falls short. Your baseless assumption that because a build isn’t posted all over forums that it must not be good, or that there is no possibility of a unique build, is hardly anything to build a case on. So yes, you’ve expressed yourself excellently- there is simply very little to agree with on it.

I might point out, however, that my original post was in FAVOR of /inspect, so long as it is added with an opt out button for those of us who do not wish to partake. That costs you nothing, since you can treat those of us who opt out as if we have bad gear/a bad build, and move on. You lose nothing. I lose nothing. The only people who lose something are those who want to steal others builds. That’s it.

Because of that, I don’t even see why we are disagreeing…

It’s not baseless— I give more credibility to a cookie-cutter build posted on the forums, because that build has been subjected to relentless criticism and has been under direct scrutiny of forum goers—- the only group of GW2 players that are engaged enough in the game to participate in it outside of the game itself. Those builds dont just come out of nowhere— Someone comes up with an optimal build, that is criticized and refined until it is the most optimal as possible.

Where as your build is subject to the direct scrutiny of…. yourself. There is a small chance that your build is better, but empirically i wont trust it. I mean, cookie-cutter builds are there for a reason. It may not reflect your playstyle, but people use cookie-cutter builds because it has been determined to be the most effective in its area.

I would like to see /inspect. If they need to have an opt-out, i’ll take it. But i feel like it is an concession to appease the irrational.

Scrambles.2604:

I would like to see /inspect. If they need to have an opt-out, i’ll take it. But i feel like it is an concession to appease the irrational.

I would argue that those with an inability to accept others VALID concerns, especially when those concerns are voiced by a large percentage of a population, simply because those concerns do not apply to you personally, are the irrational ones…

Scrambles.2604:

It’s not baseless— I give more credibility to a cookie-cutter build posted on the forums, because that build has been subjected to relentless criticism and has been under direct scrutiny of forum goers. Those builds dont just come out of nowhere— Someone comes up with an optimal build, that is criticized and refined until it is the most optimal as possible.

Where as your build is subject to the direct scrutiny of…. yourself. There is a small chance that your build is better, but empirically i wont trust it. I mean, cookie-cutter builds are there for a reason. It may not reflect your playstyle, but people use cookie-cutter builds because it has been determined to be the most effective in its area.

It neither needs the scrutiny of others, nor the acceptance of others. It is for myself alone. Empirically, I don’t need a committee to determine whether the build is better or worse- all I need to know is my overall performance in comparison to theirs. Whether that is DPS against dummy targets in Heart of the Mists, or my K/D ration in WvW PvP. THAT is all the information I need. No one else need know, or approve.

Tolmos.8395:

Scrambles.2604:

I would like to see /inspect. If they need to have an opt-out, i’ll take it. But i feel like it is an concession to appease the irrational.

I would argue that those with an inability to accept others VALID concerns, especially when those concerns are voiced by a large percentage of a population, simply because those concerns do not apply to you personally, are the irrational ones…

I don’t know how much you’ve been paying attention but the “large population” is about the same 18 people that have been posting in this thread.

For you concerns to be valid, they need to outweigh the positive aspects a tool would bring. And to claim that it is because “everyone is just dying to steal my builds” may be a true claim, but the actual likelihood of this effecting your in-game experiences are very unlikely.

Edit;

It neither needs the scrutiny of others, nor the acceptance of others. It is for myself alone. Empirically, I don’t need a committee to determine whether the build is better or worse- all I need to know is my overall performance in comparison to theirs. Whether that is DPS against dummy targets in Heart of the Mists, or my K/D ration in WvW PvP. THAT is all the information I need. No one else need know, or approve.

That’s fine if you enjoy your build. My point was i will trust a sample size of [N = the community] over a sample size of [N = Tolmos.]

Scrambles.2604:

Tolmos.8395:

Scrambles.2604:

I would like to see /inspect. If they need to have an opt-out, i’ll take it. But i feel like it is an concession to appease the irrational.

I would argue that those with an inability to accept others VALID concerns, especially when those concerns are voiced by a large percentage of a population, simply because those concerns do not apply to you personally, are the irrational ones…

I don’t know how much you’ve been paying attention but the “large population” is about the same 18 people that have been posting in this thread.

For you concerns to be valid, they need to outweigh the positive aspects a tool would bring. And to claim that it is because “everyone is just dying to steal my builds” may be a true claim, but the actual likelihood of this effecting your in-game experiences are very unlikely.

And since there are absolutely NO positive aspects to leaving out the “opt out” function, besides that people would be able to steal builds, there is no problem.

Finally, we agree.

Tolmos.8395:

Scrambles.2604:

Tolmos.8395:

Scrambles.2604:

I would like to see /inspect. If they need to have an opt-out, i’ll take it. But i feel like it is an concession to appease the irrational.

I would argue that those with an inability to accept others VALID concerns, especially when those concerns are voiced by a large percentage of a population, simply because those concerns do not apply to you personally, are the irrational ones…

I don’t know how much you’ve been paying attention but the “large population” is about the same 18 people that have been posting in this thread.

For you concerns to be valid, they need to outweigh the positive aspects a tool would bring. And to claim that it is because “everyone is just dying to steal my builds” may be a true claim, but the actual likelihood of this effecting your in-game experiences are very unlikely.

And since there are absolutely NO positive aspects to leaving out the “opt out” function, besides that people would be able to steal builds, there is no problem.

Finally, we agree.

We agree, but i promise you, no one is trying to steal your build. That sort of thinking is irrational. And making such a concession is conceding to irrationality.

Scrambles.2604:

That’s fine if you enjoy your build. My point was i will trust a sample size of [N = the community] over a sample size of [N = Tolmos.]

I just said that I don’t nee… nvm. We’ll leave it there.

Tolmos.8395:

Scrambles.2604:

That’s fine if you enjoy your build. My point was i will trust a sample size of [N = the community] over a sample size of [N = Tolmos.]

I just said that I don’t nee… nvm. We’ll leave it there.

dont say my claims are baseless when they are in-fact empirically driven.

Scrambles.2604:

Tolmos.8395:

Scrambles.2604:

Tolmos.8395:

Scrambles.2604:

I would like to see /inspect. If they need to have an opt-out, i’ll take it. But i feel like it is an concession to appease the irrational.

I would argue that those with an inability to accept others VALID concerns, especially when those concerns are voiced by a large percentage of a population, simply because those concerns do not apply to you personally, are the irrational ones…

I don’t know how much you’ve been paying attention but the “large population” is about the same 18 people that have been posting in this thread.

For you concerns to be valid, they need to outweigh the positive aspects a tool would bring. And to claim that it is because “everyone is just dying to steal my builds” may be a true claim, but the actual likelihood of this effecting your in-game experiences are very unlikely.

And since there are absolutely NO positive aspects to leaving out the “opt out” function, besides that people would be able to steal builds, there is no problem.

Finally, we agree.

We agree, but i promise you, no one is trying to steal your build. That sort of thinking is irrational. And making such a concession is conceding to irrationality.

Again- just because it doesn’t affect YOU personally, and just because you can’t understand the concept of a winning strategy or a winning build in a competitive environment, doesn’t make those who use them and want to safeguard their own winning strategies and their own winning builds irrational.

I could say that everyone who wants to watch an American Football game on television on Monday night is irrational because they can simply look the score up after the fact and see who won. I would only be saying that because I personally don’t understand the appeal of watching the game. They want to know who won- look it up. Why watch it? That’s irrational.

See: it sounds silly, doesn’t it?

Scrambles.2604:

Tolmos.8395:

Scrambles.2604:

That’s fine if you enjoy your build. My point was i will trust a sample size of [N = the community] over a sample size of [N = Tolmos.]

I just said that I don’t nee… nvm. We’ll leave it there.

dont say my claims are baseless when they are in-fact empirically driven.

/pats Of course they are.

Tolmos.8395:

Scrambles.2604:

Tolmos.8395:

Scrambles.2604:

Tolmos.8395:

Scrambles.2604:

I would like to see /inspect. If they need to have an opt-out, i’ll take it. But i feel like it is an concession to appease the irrational.

I would argue that those with an inability to accept others VALID concerns, especially when those concerns are voiced by a large percentage of a population, simply because those concerns do not apply to you personally, are the irrational ones…

I don’t know how much you’ve been paying attention but the “large population” is about the same 18 people that have been posting in this thread.

For you concerns to be valid, they need to outweigh the positive aspects a tool would bring. And to claim that it is because “everyone is just dying to steal my builds” may be a true claim, but the actual likelihood of this effecting your in-game experiences are very unlikely.

And since there are absolutely NO positive aspects to leaving out the “opt out” function, besides that people would be able to steal builds, there is no problem.

Finally, we agree.

We agree, but i promise you, no one is trying to steal your build. That sort of thinking is irrational. And making such a concession is conceding to irrationality.

Again- just because it doesn’t affect YOU personally, and just because you can’t understand the concept of a winning strategy or a winning build in a competitive environment, doesn’t make those who use them and want to safeguard their own winning strategies and their own winning builds irrational.

I could say that everyone who wants to watch an American Football game on television on Monday night is irrational because they can simply look the score up after the fact and see who won. I would only be saying that because I personally don’t understand the appeal of watching the game. They want to know who won- look it up. Why watch it? That’s irrational.

See: it sounds silly, doesn’t it?

From my perspective, so I am not speaking for Scrambles, I think that the irrationality of your post is it seems you are paranoid that one will inspect you to steal your build.

I think the only time that one would inspect ones build would be when
1. you are trying to match your build to compliment theirs or
2. you are trying to help out a friend or guildee and have them look at your build for advice and finally
3. when a newbie comes to the game and doesn’t really understand what traits etc are will inspect you for research

I believe the amount of people who will see how awesome you are will be tracking you down to steal your build. is pretty minimal or non-existant That is where the irrationality comes in.

A better analogy from football would have been how a coach will not want the other coach to have access to their game-plans, and will want to keep their game plans secret from the media/other teams. Under that analogy, I can agree and understand where you come from. I suppose it is because I 100% PvE that I do not relate to this desire.

EDIT: I am strongly in favour of your proposal to add the feature and have an opt-out option. I prefer opt out to opt in as I primarily want the feature for helping newbies. Opting out should be fairly straight forward, and perhaps should be taught to you early on in the game (maybe from your trait teacher?)

Jemmi.6058:

Tolmos.8395:

Scrambles.2604:

Tolmos.8395:

Scrambles.2604:

Tolmos.8395:

Scrambles.2604:

I would like to see /inspect. If they need to have an opt-out, i’ll take it. But i feel like it is an concession to appease the irrational.

I would argue that those with an inability to accept others VALID concerns, especially when those concerns are voiced by a large percentage of a population, simply because those concerns do not apply to you personally, are the irrational ones…

I don’t know how much you’ve been paying attention but the “large population” is about the same 18 people that have been posting in this thread.

For you concerns to be valid, they need to outweigh the positive aspects a tool would bring. And to claim that it is because “everyone is just dying to steal my builds” may be a true claim, but the actual likelihood of this effecting your in-game experiences are very unlikely.

And since there are absolutely NO positive aspects to leaving out the “opt out” function, besides that people would be able to steal builds, there is no problem.

Finally, we agree.

We agree, but i promise you, no one is trying to steal your build. That sort of thinking is irrational. And making such a concession is conceding to irrationality.

Again- just because it doesn’t affect YOU personally, and just because you can’t understand the concept of a winning strategy or a winning build in a competitive environment, doesn’t make those who use them and want to safeguard their own winning strategies and their own winning builds irrational.

I could say that everyone who wants to watch an American Football game on television on Monday night is irrational because they can simply look the score up after the fact and see who won. I would only be saying that because I personally don’t understand the appeal of watching the game. They want to know who won- look it up. Why watch it? That’s irrational.

See: it sounds silly, doesn’t it?

From my perspective, so I am not speaking for Scrambles, I think that the irrationality of your post is it seems you are paranoid that one will inspect you to steal your build.

I think the only time that one would inspect ones build would be when
1. you are trying to match your build to compliment theirs or
2. you are trying to help out a friend or guildee and have them look at your build for advice and finally
3. when a newbie comes to the game and doesn’t really understand what traits etc are will inspect you for research

I believe the amount of people who will see how awesome you are will be tracking you down to steal your build. is pretty minimal or non-existant That is where the irrationality comes in.

Well, the thing is, /inspect is a pretty quick endeavor. No one has to track me down, no one has to hunt me or anything like that. They see me do something halfway decently, right click my pic → inspect → screenshot. Bam. It’s done. No hunting. No chasing. No stalking.

And I just lost my build to the general public. Simple, and easy as that.

Jemmi.6058:

A better analogy from football would have been how a coach will not want the other coach to have access to their game-plans, and will want to keep their game plans secret from the media/other teams. Under that analogy, I can agree and understand where you come from. I suppose it is because I 100% PvE that I do not relate to this desire.

That sums it up. I agree entirely- it is a far better analogy than anything I produced.

Tolmos.8395:

Scrambles.2604:

Tolmos.8395:

Scrambles.2604:

That’s fine if you enjoy your build. My point was i will trust a sample size of [N = the community] over a sample size of [N = Tolmos.]

I just said that I don’t nee… nvm. We’ll leave it there.

dont say my claims are baseless when they are in-fact empirically driven.

/pats Of course they are.

Well, it’s also worth mentioning that there already IS /inspect in sPvP if your spectating…i mean that’s what started this whole thread. Be careful when you sPvP, someone might be creeping on your build!

And if winning WvW is contingent on your build…well, i could see why you would want to keep it a secret

So, yeah, i don’t think adding /inspect will realistically change anything for you.

Scrambles.2604:

Tolmos.8395:

Scrambles.2604:

Tolmos.8395:

Scrambles.2604:

That’s fine if you enjoy your build. My point was i will trust a sample size of [N = the community] over a sample size of [N = Tolmos.]

I just said that I don’t nee… nvm. We’ll leave it there.

dont say my claims are baseless when they are in-fact empirically driven.

/pats Of course they are.

Well, it’s also worth mentioning that there already IS /inspect in sPvP if your spectating…i mean that’s what started this whole thread. Be careful when you sPvP, someone might be creeping on your build!

And if winning WvW is contingent on your build…well, i could see why you would want to keep it a secret

So, yeah, i don’t think adding /inspect will realistically change anything for you.

I rarely SPVP. I’m too lazy to get my temple armor look for it and repulsed by the starting PvP armor. =D I don’t see /inspect affecting me there.

Bah we could do this all day. We should quit hijacking this thread.

We’ll just leave it at all of your posts are empirically driven,, scientifically proven and peer reviewed facts that cannot be disputed. Anyone who disagrees is alone in their disagreement- the silent majority agrees with you. Oh, and I’m an irrational tinfoil hat because I believe in competition.

BUT, despite our wacky and zaney differences, you have found it in your big, kind heart to be willing to reduce yourself to this irrational fools pitiful request that /inspect come with an opt out function for those of us who don’t want to partake.

That about sums it up. Now, I’ll return to my irrational wanderings, you return to your laboratory, and we’ll let the thread continue as it was before we arrived.

tl;dr- /inspect + opt out = acceptable enough for government work.

I might be the minority on the forums, but that is a small part of the actual Guild wars 2 community, so I’ll say it anyway.
I would use inspect for GOOD. I would love the opportunity to teach and help players, and maybe learn something myself in the process.
I think You guys need to meet the average GW2 player instead of thinking only about the vocal minority of speed runners and all around closed minded individuals. Most of the peeps i run into don’t even have matching stats on their gear, let alone worry about running full berserker. Since launch, I have helped countless people learn how to build and conquer dungeons, building multiple dungeon masters out of it, and it wasn’t berzerker gear.
I Think inspect would be good for the game. Ifa pay member dies all the time during TA or Fractal lv 1 through 9, id like to help. There are some people who use magic find on their main gear, thus losing out on a third stat, and I want to be the one who can help them learn that this stat could be condition damage or toughness to help the rest of the party out.

Maybe you can flag your character as “uninspectable” or something, or, you can prove yourself with an impressive title before people judge you based on gear.

Scoompoof.4657:

Maybe you can flag your character as “uninspectable” or something

That’s all I really want.

I’ll say this- I would only flag that on my Engineer. All of my alts would remain inspectable, since I don’t know the classes that well and don’t have the time to get to know them as well as my engineer. So I would definitely leave those characters available for all to see and critique what I am doing wrong with them.

Especially the elementalist…

Tolmos.8395:

Scrambles.2604:

Tolmos.8395:

Scrambles.2604:

Tolmos.8395:

Scrambles.2604:

That’s fine if you enjoy your build. My point was i will trust a sample size of [N = the community] over a sample size of [N = Tolmos.]

I just said that I don’t nee… nvm. We’ll leave it there.

dont say my claims are baseless when they are in-fact empirically driven.

/pats Of course they are.

Well, it’s also worth mentioning that there already IS /inspect in sPvP if your spectating…i mean that’s what started this whole thread. Be careful when you sPvP, someone might be creeping on your build!

And if winning WvW is contingent on your build…well, i could see why you would want to keep it a secret

So, yeah, i don’t think adding /inspect will realistically change anything for you.

I rarely SPVP. I’m too lazy to get my temple armor look for it and repulsed by the starting PvP armor. =D I don’t see /inspect affecting me there.

Bah we could do this all day. We should quit hijacking this thread.

We’ll just leave it at all of your posts are empirically driven,, scientifically proven and peer reviewed facts that cannot be disputed. Anyone who disagrees is alone in their disagreement- the silent majority agrees with you. Oh, and I’m an irrational tinfoil hat because I believe in competition.

BUT, despite our wacky and zaney differences, you have found it in your big, kind heart to be willing to reduce yourself to this irrational fools pitiful request that /inspect come with an opt out function for those of us who don’t want to partake.

That about sums it up. Now, I’ll return to my irrational wanderings, you return to your laboratory, and we’ll let the thread continue as it was before we arrived.

tl;dr- /inspect + opt out = acceptable enough for government work.

look man, don’t be bitter just because i brought real information and facts to a discussion.

You’re not crazy because you believe in competition, your crazy because you believe everyone is out to get you.

i have agreed that an opt-out is acceptable, and i assume this means you agree that it is also a compromise for irrational reasons.

I always saw /inspect as just for gear. Sure it may not be as informative as bringing up the whole armory, but small steps. If it’s gear only I’d be against an opt out option. That being said I certainly wouldn’t oppose an armory-like system whether ingame or out of it. There’s always been ways to hide innovative builds from that site, it just takes a bit of effort.

As it stands I’ve found titles in this game to not really tell me much about player skill outside of pvp, but in pvp they often seem to correlate with some base level of competence.

Want to know why I love Guild Wars 2? Because it is so different from any other MMO that I have ever played. In terms of build diversity. The build is only as good as the player itself. The only thing that I care about is that we have a good mixture of classes when running a dungeon or fractal. Too many of one class can lead to an unpleasant experience/armor breakage. Unless you are all glass cannon warriors and can usually complete any dungeon with very little problems. Except for high level fractals where glass cannons become a burden on a party due to their excessive death rate. In this case it all boils down to the party they are in and how well they each adapt to his/her shortcomings. I.E Devise new strategies on the fly.

I am against /inspect in the game period. Especially in PVP. Those guys/gals spend a lot of time tweaking their build and if they so happen to find a great build, their hard work should not be given out to everyone who has the option to peer into their trait tree and gear setup. If I know what my enemy has as arsenal I then know how to counter that by changing my own setup. Competitive pvp should be closed to inspect due to these facts.

I am more so against /inspect in pve because Elitism runs rampant in EVERY mmo, and having this option available only encourages this biased philosophy. Making sure a party has a good mixture of classes is one thing. But giving others more power to try and tell you how to play yours is not an option for many who play for fun. Some hardcore players are more open to scrutiny and will most of the time adjust their skill bar to suit the current team. However, there are many more out there who just want to play the way they want with little to no outside influence. I am happy with being able to ping gear. As my friends and I can discuss our mixture of gear and how it works for us in certain situations.

In conclusion, I feel that /inspect will bring more harm than good. If you want to ask people to ping their gear, well, you already have that option. Asking for more tools at your disposal in order to further your prejudice on others is a game breaker for many.

tldr: I say no to /inspect period.

penatbater.4710:

it’ll lead to elitism.

Scrambles.2604:

Tolmos.8395:

Scrambles.2604:

Tolmos.8395:

Scrambles.2604:

Tolmos.8395:

Scrambles.2604:

That’s fine if you enjoy your build. My point was i will trust a sample size of [N = the community] over a sample size of [N = Tolmos.]

I just said that I don’t nee… nvm. We’ll leave it there.

dont say my claims are baseless when they are in-fact empirically driven.

/pats Of course they are.

Well, it’s also worth mentioning that there already IS /inspect in sPvP if your spectating…i mean that’s what started this whole thread. Be careful when you sPvP, someone might be creeping on your build!

And if winning WvW is contingent on your build…well, i could see why you would want to keep it a secret

So, yeah, i don’t think adding /inspect will realistically change anything for you.

I rarely SPVP. I’m too lazy to get my temple armor look for it and repulsed by the starting PvP armor. =D I don’t see /inspect affecting me there.

Bah we could do this all day. We should quit hijacking this thread.

We’ll just leave it at all of your posts are empirically driven,, scientifically proven and peer reviewed facts that cannot be disputed. Anyone who disagrees is alone in their disagreement- the silent majority agrees with you. Oh, and I’m an irrational tinfoil hat because I believe in competition.

BUT, despite our wacky and zaney differences, you have found it in your big, kind heart to be willing to reduce yourself to this irrational fools pitiful request that /inspect come with an opt out function for those of us who don’t want to partake.

That about sums it up. Now, I’ll return to my irrational wanderings, you return to your laboratory, and we’ll let the thread continue as it was before we arrived.

tl;dr- /inspect + opt out = acceptable enough for government work.

look man, don’t be bitter just because i brought real information and facts to a discussion.

You’re not crazy because you believe in competition, your crazy because you believe everyone is out to get you.

i have agreed that an opt-out is acceptable, and i assume this means you agree that it is also a compromise for irrational reasons.

lmao Of course you did. Empircal facts. We all get it. We’re all impressed

Yep, it’s a perfectly acceptable compromise for my irrational reasons. Now, I’ll go sit with the irrational football coaches, RTS players and other competitive tin foil hats and leave the floor to you perfectly rational casuals!

Though… just out of curiosity- do you lock your car doors? Don’t you think it’s an irrational fear that someone might open the door and take something out of it? I mean, anyone who thinks something like that might happen must think everyone is out to get them! So, you don’t lock your car doors… do you?

Jemmi.6058:

Vayne.8563:

The reason it shouldn’t be in the game is the same reason countries have gun laws.

You don’t give people the tools to commit crimes, unless you want them to commit crimes.

Vayne, I quite often agree with you, but this I cannot. It is a very poor analogy.

I agree that it’s a terrible analogy, but because it’s wrong, not because it’s emotionally charged. Guns are not tools to commit crimes, they are tools to put holes in things from far away. Crimes can be committed with knives, bats, bricks, cans of spray paint, etc. That doesn’t make them “tools to commit a crime”.

Defining inspect as a tool to be a jerk is wrong too. By that logic we shouldn’t have zone wide chat in the game – that’s a much more pervasive jerk enabling tool than inspect.

I think inspecting stats/builds would be bad for the game also. There are many stronger arguments in support of that than this one.

Simply looking at information is not an evil thing, it’s what you do with it. There is not much good that can come out of folks having access to inspect information without the player’s consent. Even if players can disable inspection, you run into the “well what are you hiding?” mentality that so many of the folks bent on eroding our privacy seem to have. It’s better that sharing your build or gear is a bit tedious than we have an environment where players are expected to expose all that information. Communities where privacy is respected and diversity is encouraged are nicer than ones where it is not.

I also have an entirely different argument about how dumb it is to select folks for your dungeon run based off of gear anyone could buy off the TP, but there’s no use going over that one again. See my signature:)

Tolmos.8395:

Bah we could do this all day. We should quit hijacking this thread.

We’ll just leave it at all of your posts are empirically driven,, scientifically proven and peer reviewed facts that cannot be disputed. Anyone who disagrees is alone in their disagreement- the silent majority agrees with you. Oh, and I’m an irrational tinfoil hat because I believe in competition.

BUT, despite our wacky and zaney differences, you have found it in your big, kind heart to be willing to reduce yourself to this irrational fools pitiful request that /inspect come with an opt out function for those of us who don’t want to partake.

That about sums it up. Now, I’ll return to my irrational wanderings, you return to your laboratory, and we’ll let the thread continue as it was before we arrived.

tl;dr- /inspect + opt out = acceptable enough for government work.

+2! (And I rarely give a +1). In fact, you win the internet.

Pandemoniac.4739:

Jemmi.6058:

Vayne.8563:

The reason it shouldn’t be in the game is the same reason countries have gun laws.

You don’t give people the tools to commit crimes, unless you want them to commit crimes.

Vayne, I quite often agree with you, but this I cannot. It is a very poor analogy.

I agree that it’s a terrible analogy, but because it’s wrong, not because it’s emotionally charged. Guns are not tools to commit crimes, they are tools to put holes in things from far away. Crimes can be committed with knives, bats, bricks, cans of spray paint, etc. That doesn’t make them “tools to commit a crime”.

Defining inspect as a tool to be a jerk is wrong too. By that logic we shouldn’t have zone wide chat in the game – that’s a much more pervasive jerk enabling tool than inspect.

I think inspecting stats/builds would be bad for the game also. There are many stronger arguments in support of that than this one.

Simply looking at information is not an evil thing, it’s what you do with it. There is not much good that can come out of folks having access to inspect information without the player’s consent. Even if players can disable inspection, you run into the “well what are you hiding?” mentality that so many of the folks bent on eroding our privacy seem to have. It’s better that sharing your build or gear is a bit tedious than we have an environment where players are expected to expose all that information. Communities where privacy is respected and diversity is encouraged are nicer than ones where it is not.

I also have an entirely different argument about how dumb it is to select folks for your dungeon run based off of gear anyone could buy off the TP, but there’s no use going over that one again. See my signature:)

Having zone wide chat doesn’t encourage people to be jerks. Having an inspect does.

The reason there is no /inspect feature in pve is because it is co-operative.

Players are encouraged to work together to achieve a common goal, not exclude one another based on perceived bad gear or skill choices. How hard is it to suggest the use of certain skills/utilities, or that a player might feel they get more out of their profession if they used some XYZ-stat gear?

God forbid that we actually have to communicate with someone instead of /inspect and denying them content just because of our own preconceptions.

/inspect has no place in pve when it is so easy to ping gear and type traits anyway; the choice lies with the player being asked- long may it remain so.

Funky.4861:

The reason there is no /inspect feature in pve is because it is co-operative.

Players are encouraged to work together to achieve a common goal, not exclude one another based on perceived bad gear or skill choices. How hard is it to suggest the use of certain skills/utilities, or that a player might feel they get more out of their profession if they used some XYZ-stat gear?

God forbid that we actually have to communicate with someone instead of /inspect and denying them content just because of our own preconceptions.

/inspect has no place in pve when it is so easy to ping gear and type traits anyway; the choice lies with the player being asked- long may it remain so.

You would be 100% right if /inspect was designed for the sole means of excluding one another based on perceived bad gear or skill choices.

There are more, positive functions /inspect can bring. If you only focus on one, negative function a tool could bring, your severely discrediting its potential.

You can use the chat box to deny people from groups or make fun of people. But we wont advocate getting rid of the chat box because it also brings positive aspects to the game.

And i guess it’s a good thing that, in the current state of the game, no one ever gets denied from groups based on gear/builds. Everyone holds hands and sings along and no one’s mean to eachother, thanks to the lack of an inspect feature.

Scrambles.2604:

Funky.4861:

The reason there is no /inspect feature in pve is because it is co-operative.

Players are encouraged to work together to achieve a common goal, not exclude one another based on perceived bad gear or skill choices. How hard is it to suggest the use of certain skills/utilities, or that a player might feel they get more out of their profession if they used some XYZ-stat gear?

God forbid that we actually have to communicate with someone instead of /inspect and denying them content just because of our own preconceptions.

/inspect has no place in pve when it is so easy to ping gear and type traits anyway; the choice lies with the player being asked- long may it remain so.

You would be 100% right if /inspect was designed for the sole means of excluding one another based on perceived bad gear or skill choices.

There are more, positive functions /inspect can bring. If you only focus on one, negative function a tool could bring, your severely discrediting its potential.

You can use the chat box to deny people from groups or make fun of people. But we wont advocate getting rid of the chat box because it also brings positive aspects to the game.

And i guess it’s a good thing that, in the current state of the game, no one ever gets denied from groups based on gear/builds. Everyone holds hands and sings along and no one’s mean to eachother, thanks to the lack of an inspect feature.

And as a cooperative game, an /inspect tool allows for even less communication. Rather than actually asking someone about their gear, instead you just peek for yourself.

I still don’t understand why anybody would want an /inspect when there are so many other ways to get the information you need, in a convenient way, without all of the cons of an /inspect tied to it. Cosmetic only inspect, better ways to ping builds/gear, the option to disable inspect if you choose too. I feel like pro-inspect people are not willing to make any negotiations.

lookitsandrea.8531:

Scrambles.2604:

Funky.4861:

The reason there is no /inspect feature in pve is because it is co-operative.

Players are encouraged to work together to achieve a common goal, not exclude one another based on perceived bad gear or skill choices. How hard is it to suggest the use of certain skills/utilities, or that a player might feel they get more out of their profession if they used some XYZ-stat gear?

God forbid that we actually have to communicate with someone instead of /inspect and denying them content just because of our own preconceptions.

/inspect has no place in pve when it is so easy to ping gear and type traits anyway; the choice lies with the player being asked- long may it remain so.

You would be 100% right if /inspect was designed for the sole means of excluding one another based on perceived bad gear or skill choices.

There are more, positive functions /inspect can bring. If you only focus on one, negative function a tool could bring, your severely discrediting its potential.

You can use the chat box to deny people from groups or make fun of people. But we wont advocate getting rid of the chat box because it also brings positive aspects to the game.

And i guess it’s a good thing that, in the current state of the game, no one ever gets denied from groups based on gear/builds. Everyone holds hands and sings along and no one’s mean to eachother, thanks to the lack of an inspect feature.

And as a cooperative game, an /inspect tool allows for even less communication. Rather than actually asking someone about their gear, instead you just peek for yourself.

I still don’t understand why anybody would want an /inspect when there are so many other ways to get the information you need, in a convenient way, without all of the cons of an /inspect tied to it. Cosmetic only inspect, better ways to ping builds/gear, the option to disable inspect if you choose too. I feel like pro-inspect people are not willing to make any negotiations.

What’s convenient about alt+tabbing to scour through skins on Dulfy to try to identify a piece of gear, when i could just /inspect?

you may say, “well, just ask them!” In a perfect world, this would be great. But people don’t always respond and it would be much easier to not even have to inquire if i could just /inspect.

I agree we should encourage more communication, but frankly the game-play is so fast paced i’m hard pressed find an opportunity to ask the Ele in my group how i can compliment his build. Would be much easier just to /inspect and go from there.

lookitsandrea.8531:

I feel like pro-inspect people are not willing to make any negotiations.

I don’t know if you’ve read any of this thread, but it is 14 pages of negotiations (maybe 12 of debate and 2 of name calling). If the word you looking for is “concessions,” then, yes, those have been made, too.

Scrambles.2604:

lookitsandrea.8531:

Scrambles.2604:

Funky.4861:

The reason there is no /inspect feature in pve is because it is co-operative.

Players are encouraged to work together to achieve a common goal, not exclude one another based on perceived bad gear or skill choices. How hard is it to suggest the use of certain skills/utilities, or that a player might feel they get more out of their profession if they used some XYZ-stat gear?

God forbid that we actually have to communicate with someone instead of /inspect and denying them content just because of our own preconceptions.

/inspect has no place in pve when it is so easy to ping gear and type traits anyway; the choice lies with the player being asked- long may it remain so.

You would be 100% right if /inspect was designed for the sole means of excluding one another based on perceived bad gear or skill choices.

There are more, positive functions /inspect can bring. If you only focus on one, negative function a tool could bring, your severely discrediting its potential.

You can use the chat box to deny people from groups or make fun of people. But we wont advocate getting rid of the chat box because it also brings positive aspects to the game.

And i guess it’s a good thing that, in the current state of the game, no one ever gets denied from groups based on gear/builds. Everyone holds hands and sings along and no one’s mean to eachother, thanks to the lack of an inspect feature.

And as a cooperative game, an /inspect tool allows for even less communication. Rather than actually asking someone about their gear, instead you just peek for yourself.

I still don’t understand why anybody would want an /inspect when there are so many other ways to get the information you need, in a convenient way, without all of the cons of an /inspect tied to it. Cosmetic only inspect, better ways to ping builds/gear, the option to disable inspect if you choose too. I feel like pro-inspect people are not willing to make any negotiations.

What’s convenient about alt+tabbing to scour through skins on Dulfy to try to identify a piece of gear, when i could just /inspect?

you may say, “well, just ask them!” In a perfect world, this would be great. But people don’t always respond and it would be much easier to not even have to inquire if i could just /inspect.

I agree we should encourage more communication, but frankly the game-play is so fast paced i’m hard pressed find an opportunity to ask the Ele in my group how i can compliment his build. Would be much easier just to /inspect and go from there.

lookitsandrea.8531:

I feel like pro-inspect people are not willing to make any negotiations.

I don’t know if you’ve read any of this thread, but it is 14 pages of negotiations (maybe 12 of debate and 2 of name calling). If the word you looking for is “concessions,” then, yes, those have been made, too.

I could look through, but I won’t for I really just don’t have the time. With that said, I have not seen (though I very well may have missed it) any pro-inspect player saying that they are alright with an inspect feature that has the option to disable, nor have I seen many pro-inspect players saying that they would also be alright with an easier way to ping gear and builds. If I have missed that, then I apologize. Where do you stand on those types of negotiations?

And as for your first comment about searching through Dulfy, you may have missed a point that I (and many many others) have made: A cosmetic-only inspect. I don’t think many, if any, people have a problem with this. It’s the pro-inspect players who want to inspect stats that the problem starts to come in hand.

lookitsandrea.8531:

Scrambles.2604:

lookitsandrea.8531:

Scrambles.2604:

Funky.4861:

The reason there is no /inspect feature in pve is because it is co-operative.

Players are encouraged to work together to achieve a common goal, not exclude one another based on perceived bad gear or skill choices. How hard is it to suggest the use of certain skills/utilities, or that a player might feel they get more out of their profession if they used some XYZ-stat gear?

God forbid that we actually have to communicate with someone instead of /inspect and denying them content just because of our own preconceptions.

/inspect has no place in pve when it is so easy to ping gear and type traits anyway; the choice lies with the player being asked- long may it remain so.

You would be 100% right if /inspect was designed for the sole means of excluding one another based on perceived bad gear or skill choices.

There are more, positive functions /inspect can bring. If you only focus on one, negative function a tool could bring, your severely discrediting its potential.

You can use the chat box to deny people from groups or make fun of people. But we wont advocate getting rid of the chat box because it also brings positive aspects to the game.

And i guess it’s a good thing that, in the current state of the game, no one ever gets denied from groups based on gear/builds. Everyone holds hands and sings along and no one’s mean to eachother, thanks to the lack of an inspect feature.

And as a cooperative game, an /inspect tool allows for even less communication. Rather than actually asking someone about their gear, instead you just peek for yourself.

I still don’t understand why anybody would want an /inspect when there are so many other ways to get the information you need, in a convenient way, without all of the cons of an /inspect tied to it. Cosmetic only inspect, better ways to ping builds/gear, the option to disable inspect if you choose too. I feel like pro-inspect people are not willing to make any negotiations.

What’s convenient about alt+tabbing to scour through skins on Dulfy to try to identify a piece of gear, when i could just /inspect?

you may say, “well, just ask them!” In a perfect world, this would be great. But people don’t always respond and it would be much easier to not even have to inquire if i could just /inspect.

I agree we should encourage more communication, but frankly the game-play is so fast paced i’m hard pressed find an opportunity to ask the Ele in my group how i can compliment his build. Would be much easier just to /inspect and go from there.

lookitsandrea.8531:

I feel like pro-inspect people are not willing to make any negotiations.

I don’t know if you’ve read any of this thread, but it is 14 pages of negotiations (maybe 12 of debate and 2 of name calling). If the word you looking for is “concessions,” then, yes, those have been made, too.

I could look through, but I won’t for I really just don’t have the time. With that said, I have not seen (though I very well may have missed it) any pro-inspect player saying that they are alright with an inspect feature that has the option to disable, nor have I seen many pro-inspect players saying that they would also be alright with an easier way to ping gear and builds. If I have missed that, then I apologize. Where do you stand on those types of negotiations?

And as for your first comment about searching through Dulfy, you may have missed a point that I (and many many others) have made: A cosmetic-only inspect. I don’t think many, if any, people have a problem with this. It’s the pro-inspect players who want to inspect stats that the problem starts to come in hand.

I think both sides decided an opt-out feature would satisfy everyone. Personally, i think the feature should be unblocked by default. If you already don’t have a fear of being blocked from parties/made fun of/encroaching elitism, then /inspect would be a non-issue.
An opt-out would mean:

-People worried about privacy can turn off inspect
-People curious about others’ gear have a higher chance of being able to view someone elses gear, assuming they didn’t block it.
-People worried about carrying people with bad gear through dungeons can uninvite people that have disabled inspect
-People like me that get made fun of for having exotics transmuted into greens/blues will finally be able to prove their worth beyond face value.
-People can openly share builds without bothering anyone, which in itself could generate dialog (which is a good thing).

Scrambles.2604:

-People curious about others’ gear have a higher chance of being able to view someone elses gear, assuming they didn’t block it.
-People like me that get made fun of for having exotics transmuted into greens/blues will finally be able to prove their worth beyond face value.
-People can openly share builds without bothering anyone, which in itself could generate dialog (which is a good thing).

1) Curious as to why this is needed/important, from just a viewing standpoint?
2) Can’t you just ping the gear and move on, or as you suggested earlier grow thicker skin
3) If someone was already open to share a build I am sure they would post it or discuss it freely

I agree though an inspect with and opt out (fully or stat only if you are still willing to share for cosmetics) is doable and might prevent the worries of the con/privacy crowd.

Ordika.9513:

Scrambles.2604:

-People curious about others’ gear have a higher chance of being able to view someone elses gear, assuming they didn’t block it.
-People like me that get made fun of for having exotics transmuted into greens/blues will finally be able to prove their worth beyond face value.
-People can openly share builds without bothering anyone, which in itself could generate dialog (which is a good thing).

1) Curious as to why this is needed/important, from just a viewing standpoint?
2) Can’t you just ping the gear and move on, or as you suggested earlier grow thicker skin
3) If someone was already open to share a build I am sure they would post it or discuss it freely

I agree though an inspect with and opt out (fully or stat only if you are still willing to share for cosmetics) is doable and might prevent the worries of the con/privacy crowd.

1) You’ve never been curious about someones gear? I can’t claim to have the every single item and skin in the game memorized, so it would definitely be useful to check out people’s stuff. Not to mention what type of runes/sigils/gems they’re running.

Of course, i could ask them. But a response is not always 100% guaranteed, where i can just inspect someone at my own leisure, without bothering them

2) Of course you can ping gear in that situation. That solution doesn’t control for people that take gear at face value but don’t say out about it— they just out-right deny you. And suggesting to ping gear is a cop-out. It’s a solution only because of the lack of an inspect. Not to mention it takes double-the effort from both parties that it would take from a simple inspect.

And yeah, i could grow a thicker skin. But i feel like you are taking personal shots at me now. Because you could make that same arguement to anyone saying they’re not comfortable with /inspect. Growing a thicker skin isn’t suddenly going to allow me into groups i’m getting denied from based on the gear people think i’m wearing.

3) Yeah, you can share builds currently. But say i’m in LA and i meet another Ele with similar gear to me (similar in stats, not looks) with slight changes. Well, suddenly I can say “hey i have a similar build but i’m curious why you chose..”

I dunno, call me creative but i can think of a few uses for /inspect that doesn’t involve hurting your feelings. Go figure, but player interactions don’t always have to be malicious. But honestly, i think you are just trying to argue with me for the sake of arguing.

I’d still like to know why we’re even having this discussion when there has not been a hint about implementing it from the devs. It’s complete speculation and if the devs wanted it in the game, it would already be here.

The fact is, they introduced it for Spvp only as a means for spectators to have a more in-depth experience instead of having to guess what the players are using, where stats come from runes/trinkets, not gear.

Re-gearing costs nothing in Spvp but this is not the case for every other game mode; hence /inspect has no economic pressure there. However, if you are hassled for using a combo of gear/trinkets that is less than the comunally-accepted norm for your profession are you telling me that you will feel no pressure to re-gear just to shut them up? If you have to explain yourself over and over and over again to people how long will it take for you to just buy/make a cookie-cutter gear? Re-gearing is not cheap if it’s your first character; you can’t even keep a new character in-gear from regular play alone- you have to farm dungeons/events/meta-events/the TP as soon as you can to start to make money. This is the death of build variety, and that is what the devs want to avoid at all costs.

/inspect has no worthwhile function in pve outside of passing judgement/uninvited criticism on other players, and who likes being judged completely at random by a total stranger? /inspect offers us nothing that we can’t already do, apart from the opportunity to gawp at people without their consent. I don’t mind a cosmetic-only version, but pinging your gear already says if it’s transmuted or not.

If it ever is implemented for pve (and by extension wvw) then it should be off by default; that way i don’t have to tick a box every time i log in.

Funky.4861:

I’d still like to know why we’re even having this discussion when there has not been a hint about implementing it from the devs. It’s complete speculation and if the devs wanted it in the game, it would already be here.

The fact is, they introduced it for Spvp only as a means for spectators to have a more in-depth experience instead of having to guess what the players are using, where stats come from runes/trinkets, not gear.

Re-gearing costs nothing in Spvp but this is not the case for every other game mode; hence /inspect has no economic pressure there. However, if you are hassled for using a combo of gear/trinkets that is less than the comunally-accepted norm for your profession are you telling me that you will feel no pressure to re-gear just to shut them up? If you have to explain yourself over and over and over again to people how long will it take for you to just buy/make a cookie-cutter gear? Re-gearing is not cheap if it’s your first character; you can’t even keep a new character in-gear from regular play alone- you have to farm dungeons/events/meta-events/the TP as soon as you can to start to make money. This is the death of build variety, and that is what the devs want to avoid at all costs.

/inspect has no worthwhile function in pve outside of passing judgement/uninvited criticism on other players, and who likes being judged completely at random by a total stranger? /inspect offers us nothing that we can’t already do, apart from the opportunity to gawp at people without their consent. I don’t mind a cosmetic-only version, but pinging your gear already says if it’s transmuted or not.

If it ever is implemented for pve (and by extension wvw) then it should be off by default; that way i don’t have to tick a box every time i log in.

It’s been suggested ever since people realized it wasn’t there from the beginning.

It was implemented in spectator for sPvP so the idea of it being added to the rest of the game became a real thing.

Every point of yours has been argued into the ground, lol. Stop writing and start reading. It might not be worthwhile for you, but other people think it will be useful. Not everyone enjoys the game the same as you.

And why do you think, if it was an option, you would have to switch it off every time you log in? All the other options stay the same through log-out. Do you have to reset your video settings from default every time you log in, also? I think you’re just trying to be difficult.

Scrambles.2604:

1) You’ve never been curious about someones gear? I can’t claim to have the every single item and skin in the game memorized, so it would definitely be useful to check out people’s stuff. Not to mention what type of runes/sigils/gems they’re running.

Of course, i could ask them. But a response is not always 100% guaranteed, where i can just inspect someone at my own leisure, without bothering them

2) Of course you can ping gear in that situation. That solution doesn’t control for people that take gear at face value but don’t say out about it— they just out-right deny you. And suggesting to ping gear is a cop-out. It’s a solution only because of the lack of an inspect. Not to mention it takes double-the effort from both parties that it would take from a simple inspect.

And yeah, i could grow a thicker skin. But i feel like you are taking personal shots at me now. Because you could make that same arguement to anyone saying they’re not comfortable with /inspect. Growing a thicker skin isn’t suddenly going to allow me into groups i’m getting denied from based on the gear people think i’m wearing.

3) Yeah, you can share builds currently. But say i’m in LA and i meet another Ele with similar gear to me (similar in stats, not looks) with slight changes. Well, suddenly I can say “hey i have a similar build but i’m curious why you chose..”

I dunno, call me creative but i can think of a few uses for /inspect that doesn’t involve hurting your feelings. Go figure, but player interactions don’t always have to be malicious. But honestly, i think you are just trying to argue with me for the sake of arguing.

More glib then argumentative, and the reason is the many of your arguments against other peoples wish to not have an inspect feature can very similarly be used against your arguments for (ie the thick skin issue).

But in reality all of your reasons boil down to you wishing to get around people not responding to you, giving you free access to anything about their character (save account information) or not having to justify yourself.

I get this, I am a naturally curious person myself, but that is also tempered by the fact they I generally only want the person to answer my question and then stop talking to me. Since I cannot guarantee that is how the interaction will go I don’t ask them, and instead later try and find the info myself.

As far as build sharing goes, if it’s me, all you have to do is ask. Depending on my mood you’ll either get a lengthy dissertation, or a simple x/x/x/x/x with XYZ traits and gear/rune/sigil type. But the person who asked should respect that, or if I don’t even reply as I can get a bit myopic sometimes while playing an miss many messages.

Ordika.9513:

Scrambles.2604:

1) You’ve never been curious about someones gear? I can’t claim to have the every single item and skin in the game memorized, so it would definitely be useful to check out people’s stuff. Not to mention what type of runes/sigils/gems they’re running.

Of course, i could ask them. But a response is not always 100% guaranteed, where i can just inspect someone at my own leisure, without bothering them

2) Of course you can ping gear in that situation. That solution doesn’t control for people that take gear at face value but don’t say out about it— they just out-right deny you. And suggesting to ping gear is a cop-out. It’s a solution only because of the lack of an inspect. Not to mention it takes double-the effort from both parties that it would take from a simple inspect.

And yeah, i could grow a thicker skin. But i feel like you are taking personal shots at me now. Because you could make that same arguement to anyone saying they’re not comfortable with /inspect. Growing a thicker skin isn’t suddenly going to allow me into groups i’m getting denied from based on the gear people think i’m wearing.

3) Yeah, you can share builds currently. But say i’m in LA and i meet another Ele with similar gear to me (similar in stats, not looks) with slight changes. Well, suddenly I can say “hey i have a similar build but i’m curious why you chose..”

I dunno, call me creative but i can think of a few uses for /inspect that doesn’t involve hurting your feelings. Go figure, but player interactions don’t always have to be malicious. But honestly, i think you are just trying to argue with me for the sake of arguing.

More glib then argumentative, and the reason is the many of your arguments against other peoples wish to not have an inspect feature can very similarly be used against your arguments for (ie the thick skin issue).

But in reality all of your reasons boil down to you wishing to get around people not responding to you, giving you free access to anything about their character (save account information) or not having to justify yourself.

I get this, I am a naturally curious person myself, but that is also tempered by the fact they I generally only want the person to answer my question and then stop talking to me. Since I cannot guarantee that is how the interaction will go I don’t ask them, and instead later try and find the info myself.

As far as build sharing goes, if it’s me, all you have to do is ask. Depending on my mood you’ll either get a lengthy dissertation, or a simple x/x/x/x/x with XYZ traits and gear/rune/sigil type. But the person who asked should respect that, or if I don’t even reply as I can get a bit myopic sometimes while playing an miss many messages.

Maybe my issue is I undervalue the significance of /inspect. I am not surprised that the GW2 doesn’t want DPS meters. I disagree, but i get it. But inspect? I mean, we’re only talking about inspect. That has to be the biggest non-issue tool. Not until i started reading GW2 forums could i fathom that anyone could take issue with such simple tool as inspect.

I have a hard time believing people are actively denied from groups based on gear, unless they’re trying to join a zerker farm group without any zerker gear. Otherwise, there is no content outside of FOTM that is so difficult that completion is contingent on what gear you have. Well, that, and the people who assume what gear you’re wearing based on face value, which could be easily solved with an /inspect.

You may dismiss my arguments. I have played plenty of games with inspect without any inspect related issues. Heck, even gear-score never bothered me, because i avoided playing with people that were only focued on gear score.

But the reasons against inspect are unfounded, unrealistic, and based on fantastic situations that have a very slim chance of actually occurring in game. If you value your characters privacy so much that you are unwilling to share your gear with other people, in an unobtrusive manner, then maybe an MMO environment isn’t the place for you, and you would find more comfort in a single player setting.

Scrambles.2604:

If you value your characters privacy so much that you are unwilling to share your gear with other people, in an unobtrusive manner, then maybe an MMO environment isn’t the place for you, and you should stick to single player games.

Or, they only wish to keep it from perfect strangers and are perfectly will to share among their guild/circle of friends.

Try to avoid broad stroke painting these people as anti social in general, who might just prefer to only share among with friends/guildmates.

Ordika.9513:

Scrambles.2604:

If you value your characters privacy so much that you are unwilling to share your gear with other people, in an unobtrusive manner, then maybe an MMO environment isn’t the place for you, and you should stick to single player games.

Or, they only wish to keep it from perfect strangers and are perfectly will to share among their guild/circle of friends.

Try to avoid broad stroke painting these people as anti social in general, who might just prefer to only share among with friends/guildmates.

I’m not calling people anti-social. I’m saying that interacting with strangers is kind of an MMO’s thing.

edit; Unless you’re on a private server, interacting with strangers is unavoidable.

Bright.9160:

Lol, you’re just precious.

Oh, you charmer ~

Bright.9160:

First of, you strut around, acting morally superior and saying that people shouldn’t force people to play a certain way. Then you turn around and tell us how we should like our game. Pot, meet kettle.

Hello kettle! Pot here! How are you doing, dear? Please, point out where I said I’m (morally or otherwise) better then you.

Or better then anyone else in the course of this thread. Should be something interesting, watching what you try to pull out of your spout for this.

How you like your game VS what you can do/impose on other people has a reasonable limit.

When a community element can come to a point where it can dictate what other people within the community can and cannot do with themselves...

It is no longer about what you want to do with your game.

You shouldn’t be very surprised that some people don’t take kindly to suggestions that carry implications that could potentially dictate their game to them.

Kettle, honey, sit down. We need to have discussion regarding irony.

Scrambles.2604:

Ordika.9513:

Scrambles.2604:

If you value your characters privacy so much that you are unwilling to share your gear with other people, in an unobtrusive manner, then maybe an MMO environment isn’t the place for you, and you should stick to single player games.

Or, they only wish to keep it from perfect strangers and are perfectly will to share among their guild/circle of friends.

Try to avoid broad stroke painting these people as anti social in general, who might just prefer to only share among with friends/guildmates.

I’m not calling people anti-social. I’m saying that interacting with strangers is kind of an MMO’s thing.

edit; Unless your on a private server, interacting with strangers is unavoidable.

To a degree. Being around them and doing auto group things with them yes unavoidable. Talking to/pugging is absolutely avoidable (I have never pugged a single fractal/pug in my time in GW2)

Ordika.9513:

Scrambles.2604:

Ordika.9513:

Scrambles.2604:

If you value your characters privacy so much that you are unwilling to share your gear with other people, in an unobtrusive manner, then maybe an MMO environment isn’t the place for you, and you should stick to single player games.

Or, they only wish to keep it from perfect strangers and are perfectly will to share among their guild/circle of friends.

Try to avoid broad stroke painting these people as anti social in general, who might just prefer to only share among with friends/guildmates.

I’m not calling people anti-social. I’m saying that interacting with strangers is kind of an MMO’s thing.

edit; Unless your on a private server, interacting with strangers is unavoidable.

To a degree. Being around them and doing auto group things with them yes unavoidable. Talking to/pugging is absolutely avoidable (I have never pugged a single fractal/pug in my time in GW2)

Haha, so if strangers are avoidable…then what is the issue with allowing /inspect? You don’t have to answer, that was more hypothetical, because anyone against /inspect can generate an unrealistic situation where it can potentially be used against them.

I wont disagree that some stranger can /inspect you, then msg you telling you how much you suck. But the probability that that will happen frequently, if at all, is so slim that i don’t think that merits not allowing an /inspect feature.

Scrambles.2604:

Haha, so if strangers are avoidable…then what is the issue with allowing /inspect? You don’t have to answer, that was more hypothetical, because anyone against /inspect can generate an unrealistic situation where it can potentially be used against them.

I wont disagree that some stranger can /inspect you, then msg you telling you how much you suck. But the probability that that will happen frequently, if at all, is so slim that i don’t think that merits not allowing an /inspect feature.

You and I have no idea how often the will or won’t happen, it’s all conjecture and speculation. How often it does happen is neither an argument for or against. Personally I think inpecting someone without there permission is just rude, but that’s me. Even in games that offered it I never used it unless the person asked for my advice/critique or if they wanted to show off their cool look (in which case I relegated my look to only the armor itself not stats/traits).

@ scrambles: i’ve been keeping up with the thread since the first post and two points i have made you have completely ignored- pve is a different game-mode to pvp and that there is no economic pressure to re-gear in pvp but there is in pve.

So i had a look at the oldest pages of the suggestions sub-forum and gave up looking for a single thread ‘since the game started’ that we should have a /inspect function in any area of the game, after 20 pages. That was 8 months ago.

It’s as simple as this: there has never been any need for /inspect, since the game launched, because we can ping our gear. Gear pinging has not replaced /inspect, it has always been a feature. Thing is, it’s voluntary- and you want to take that away.

The devs recently implemented spectator mode for Spvp (which is a unique game mode in that there is no currency to buy gear with stats- you can choose more-or-less whatever you want for free) because spectators are in the dark about Spvp stats as they are not tied to the appearance of gear. This does not apply to any other aspect of the game, generally because every other aspect is not ‘pvp’, but player co-operative. If you want players to co-operate, you don’t let them judge each other easily.

The appearance of gear is linked to its’ stats unless it’s transmuted. You don’t just choose a set of CoF gear from a pve locker- you have to work for that combination of appearance and stats. You choose a build and invest your time and in-game/RL money to get the gear for it- there is economic pressure directly related to both your appearance and your stats.

There is enough community-driven pidgeon-holing of gear to professions as it is without /inspect, and if i’m having immense fun running a build i don’t want some random Joe asking why i’m using RST gear instead of MNO; i don’t think the GW2 community is mature enough to be tolerant of infrequently-used gear sets or combinations. Peer-pressure to conform to the so-called ‘optimal builds’ will kill a lot of the fun of experimentation for those of us non-leets who like to dabble every now and again and not be preached at by those who think they know better. No, i don’t fear ridicule or exclusion at all (i’m confident enough to handle people who try that) but i know it will happen and many players will not be expecting to be pointed at and laughed about in map chat.

Don’t kid yourself, /inspect in pve is ripe for abuse and i suspect the number of players reported for ‘verbal’ abuse would rise sharply if it was ever implemented.

“Lol! Look at that warrior with PVT gear, who does he think he is?!”

Scrambles.2604:

Haha, so if strangers are avoidable…then what is the issue with allowing /inspect? You don’t have to answer, that was more hypothetical, because anyone against /inspect can generate an unrealistic situation where it can potentially be used against them.

I wont disagree that some stranger can /inspect you, then msg you telling you how much you suck. But the probability that that will happen frequently, if at all, is so slim that i don’t think that merits not allowing an /inspect feature.

I’d like to answer, hypothetical or not.

If strangers are avoidable, then why would you need /inspect anyway? Just run with the people you know, right? Unless… there’s something else to be gained by interacting with strangers in an MMO, from time to time? Yes, of course there is. And there will be moments where /inspect is good, and moments when it is bad, depending on the strangers.

And as for how often it will happen? We’ve all encountered Grammar Kittens (word’s edited, to nobody’s surprise). That’s how some people act, like it or not, and we’ve all seen it. Allowing /inspect just allows the rise of Build Kittens, and I’d really rather not deal with them.

If you want to know about my character, ask me. If I want you to know, I’ll tell you. If I don’t want you to know, I won’t.