Guild Wars 2

Yaki.9563:

Red Falcon.8257:

That post shows no proofs, those numbers could easily be pulled out of the Great Hole in Divinity Reach if you know what I mean.
There is no data on how he got those numbers at all.

Proving this is pretty simple; just have one Warrior and one Guardian deal his best possible DPS chain for one minute minumum (else it just proves burst but not DPS).
Then compare the total damage and divide it by 60.

Until that test is done, properly and with no mistakes, your claim as the same validity as saying god exists.

The hilarity is you don’t realize the same can be said about your claim.

I don’t see how that’s true. His suggestion sounds like the best solution. Unless you’re saying you wouldn’t believe any numbers those players give because they could be making them up? Think a simple recording of both screens and then a detailed print-out of the combat log would put it all to rest. How could you argue those facts?

Dementia.8621:

[Walks in and reads]
“Guardians out-DPS warriors.”
[Walks out laughing hysterically]

LOL, your ignorance is whats hysterical. IF you take into consideration reflections, guardians have better dps then warriors.

Because warriors can take lupi down to 50% in less then 2 seconds right?

colesy.8490 you have proven nothing, you just seem like a huge troll. Love that you assume I play a warrior. I’ll forgive rjnemer.7816, ignorance is bliss is it not? So many sad troll’s throwing random numbers with no actual proof, or throwing no numbers and expecting everyone else to follow your cheaply thrown about truth’s.

Caramel Ham.4891:

Guardians do similar dmg to warriors

Joke of the year!

“Why would you play anything other than a guardian?”

Very simple…. because I want to. Other people don’t like it? Well, they don’t have to play with me.

I think people are mistaking the forum warrior with warrior. Yes, guardians can out dps a warrior but cannot out dps a forum warrior. I hope that clears up the confusion.

Lunar Sunset.8742:

I think people are mistaking the forum warrior with warrior. Yes, guardians can out dps a warrior but cannot out dps a forum warrior. I hope that clears up the confusion.

To have a different gameplay experience to keep things from getting boring ?

Lunar Sunset.8742:

I think people are mistaking the forum warrior with warrior. Yes, guardians can out dps a warrior but cannot out dps a forum warrior. I hope that clears up the confusion.

Zerker warrior vs. Zerker guardian. Pretty sure warrior takes it every time in sustainable DPS. Enough people have claimed Guardians out-DPS warrior on this forum for me to demand evidence. Doubt it will ever surface though. Everyone wants to talk theory, nothing put into practice.

Tarinis.6054:

High survivability, excellent damage, wanted in groups all the time. Really no cons

more like …. easiest profession

tons of cons. but i guess you don’t know about them because you PvE I assume.

Breaking Bad.6241:

Aberrant.6749:

Breaking Bad.6241:

Aberrant.6749:

Why stop at just having all buffs? Lets presume all conditions on the targets as well. Then a mes with 3 iwarlocks out then swapping to 1h sword will have the highest dps. ’Cause I mean all bosses/mobs just run around with everything on them naturally and we run around with all buffs all the time. Phantasms are immortal as well.

(Aka why that more damage stuff with full buffs/max vuln is meaningless bullkitten)

It’s not that hard to get max buffs in an organized group.

You totally missed my point.

Then you missed the point of the guy who did the calculations.

Nope, I understood it perfectly fine. It just doesn’t show much of anything of any real use.

It presumes too much and doesn’t take into account enough things to be very useful for party theory crafting.

spamming boons its so overrated!

“save your self’s”

Because every class brings a different kind of utility for the team, being it damage, boons, heals?

I mean, why play guardian if you can go thief?
Enemies chasing you? Stealth
Enemies hitting you? Dodge forever or Stealth
Enemies fleeing? Stealth and backstab
Ally needing help? Stealth and help (kitten man, don’t stealth your mate and stare at him until he gets up; give him a hand)

This topic makes no sense and just wants to create chaos here

Galtrix.7369:

colesy.8490:

I can’t even tell you how wrong you are. I have to build defense on my Guardian to keep bad berserkers like you from dying in dungeons and in major events like Teq. Apparently you don’t realize that guardians like me keep you alive while you repeatedly try and kill yourselves because you are the bad ones that do not know how to build a balance of Offensive and Defensive stats. The attack animations for PvE are clear, yes, but you’re going to run out of endurance one time or another. And what are you going to do when that happens? The answer is die. I prevent that from happening while doing decent damage, and my dps probably isn’t too much lower than yours.

No, you’re wrong. Watch any speed run from guilds like DnT, Define or rT, they all roll five zerkers.

And for when you run out of endurance, well you can either get an energy sigil for 50% endurance on swap or use one of your class’s defense skills. Mesmers have blurred frenzy, distortion, illusionary riposte and the scepter block. Warriors have shield block, sword block and endure pain. Guardians have virtue of courage, retreat and focus 5.

What actually happens is these zerkers drop because your DPS is trash (and so the room for error increases the longer the fight progresses) and now you go think zerkers are bad. Don’t worry, lots of people think that. They’re wrong, and you’re wrong but if it makes you feel good.

If you think guardian does good dmg then you’ve never played a warrior.

Guardians out-DPS warriors.

“Guardians out-DPS warriors”. That sentence right there shows your ignorance, and as such, discredits your entire post above that. You might as well not have even posted that for all the good it will do. Berserkers suck. End of story. I’d like to see a Teq fight with 100% berserkers. You would all be dead in less than 7 minutes, guaranteed. Anyway, I’m done here. I can see we won’t agree on anything within this section of the forum.

in groups a full berserker guardian can easily outdps a full berserker warrior, with only 1h sword autoattacks.
if you play solo, a guardian probably wont achieve the same dps, because a guardian doesnt have the ability to give himself such offensive buffs.

Galtrix.7369:

Shelledfade.6435:

Galtrix.7369:

colesy.8490:

I can’t even tell you how wrong you are. I have to build defense on my Guardian to keep bad berserkers like you from dying in dungeons and in major events like Teq. Apparently you don’t realize that guardians like me keep you alive while you repeatedly try and kill yourselves because you are the bad ones that do not know how to build a balance of Offensive and Defensive stats. The attack animations for PvE are clear, yes, but you’re going to run out of endurance one time or another. And what are you going to do when that happens? The answer is die. I prevent that from happening while doing decent damage, and my dps probably isn’t too much lower than yours.

No, you’re wrong. Watch any speed run from guilds like DnT, Define or rT, they all roll five zerkers.

And for when you run out of endurance, well you can either get an energy sigil for 50% endurance on swap or use one of your class’s defense skills. Mesmers have blurred frenzy, distortion, illusionary riposte and the scepter block. Warriors have shield block, sword block and endure pain. Guardians have virtue of courage, retreat and focus 5.

What actually happens is these zerkers drop because your DPS is trash (and so the room for error increases the longer the fight progresses) and now you go think zerkers are bad. Don’t worry, lots of people think that. They’re wrong, and you’re wrong but if it makes you feel good.

If you think guardian does good dmg then you’ve never played a warrior.

Guardians out-DPS warriors.

“Guardians out-DPS warriors”. That sentence right there shows your ignorance, and as such, discredits your entire post above that. You might as well not have even posted that for all the good it will do. Berserkers suck. End of story. I’d like to see a Teq fight with 100% berserkers. You would all be dead in less than 7 minutes, guaranteed. Anyway, I’m done here. I can see we won’t agree on anything within this section of the forum.

While I agree with you that the guy above doesn’t know what he’s talking about, I duno what you’re talking about either. I do fractal 48, and the new aether dungeon on my zerk warrior no problem.

All you need is 1 or 2 support guardians, you don’t need warriors in toughness/knights gear when you’ve got that. It would be a waste of DPS.

I do have a toughness/vitality/power set when I’m against non-crit enemies like teq, so I don’t see what your point is. If you’re playing a warrior and you aren’t in zerk gear, you’re doing it wrong.

I’m talking about the more difficult content like Teq, dungeons, and Fractals here. And let me clarify… when I talk about berserkers sucking for this content, I’m talking about them sucking if there were no support build classes present. The support classes give them that extra boost of health/regen/endurance for the zerks to keep going. I was saying that berzerkers are terrible if they choose to have all zerkers in their party for difficult content. I don’t think berzerkers suck in general. The guy above was saying how my build was completely useless because it kept others alive, and that’s where this argument stemmed from.

my guild does lvl79/80 fractals and guess what gear they are using.
right, berserker.

and a full berserker guardian can support as well as a pvt guardian. the only difference is, that the full berserker guardian (when he is good and can survive in full berserker) deals more damage and helps the group to kill targets.

we dont even need to talk about healing guardians. healing scales so bad and healing wont help to keep bad players alive and is useless in good groups, because good players dont die anyway.

I’ve read all of the posts in this thread, and I just want to emphasize and chime in that colesy’s statements are all correct. Guardians have incredible DPS on par with less supporty classes, and in the pub scene, their support makes them invaluable to help carry bad players who lack DPS or lack talent or both. In guild runs, you see a much more diverse class setup because everyone knows their roles sufficiently and they can complement each other well.

Of course, that’s strictly PvE. In WvW and PvP, other classes and setups shine in different ways.

Dementia.8621:

[Walks in and reads]
“Guardians out-DPS warriors.”
[Walks out laughing hysterically]

yup, you walk out laughing hysterically because you dont understand the game.
basically you walk out and laugh about yourself, you just didnt realize it yet.

and 1 hit didnt even crit.

Tarinis.6054:

High survivability, excellent damage, wanted in groups all the time. Really no cons

1. above all guards have no ranged.
   There are situations where I MUST go to range with my guard. A greater range than staff offers.
   a. hope you have an ele in your group with ice bow slotted just for you.
   b. buy a stack of vendor kits.
   Both options are spotty and limited, you become a drain on your party.
   ________________
2. you can’t balance defense, damage and group support. You will always trade off one to have the other two or be mediocre at all. These traits can be in other classes depending on party composition.
   _______________
3. Guard is less useful in a ranged heavy party. You need everyone up in melee range to benefit them the most. You take the ele’s bow, but offer nothing in return unless he pulls out a FGS while he out damages you.

It’s all really situational, among other points mentioned in this thread. My guard gets dusty at times, all depends on what I’m doing. I can get more content versatility say out of my thief (I have all classes leveled)… but sometimes I can benefit from dusting off my guard.

For the record, I melee everything on my Guardian. The only time I range anything is when I am eating dinner and doing legendary Grawl boss in F48 at the same time.

EDIT: And when I do that, I use the scepter. Staff-camping Guardians make baby Jesus cry.

Because not everyone enjoys the playstyle of a guardian? Different people have different tastes. I am sorry that is so hard to fathom.

NoTrigger.8396:

Dementia.8621:

[Walks in and reads]
“Guardians out-DPS warriors.”
[Walks out laughing hysterically]

yup, you walk out laughing hysterically because you dont understand the game.
basically you walk out and laugh about yourself, you just dont realize it yet.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U67QNskKYHs

and 1 hit didnt even crit.

I’m supposed to be impressed why? Sure I don’t understand the game at all, w.e you say. Insults make you look weak.

i didnt insult you. you insult people who are smarter than you.
laughing about people and calling them out, when they are right, is indeed an insult.
and the result of it is that smarter people are laughing about you, not the other way around.

please just stop insulting people who try to bring facts and things that top dungeon guilds know closer to you.
some things are hard to believe, but that doesnt mean they are not right.

there were times when people said “the earth is ball shaped”.
and people who are EXACTLY LIKE YOU, laughed hysterically.

think about it.

I don’t agree with insulting people or talking down to people, but NoTrigger is right; if you laugh and scoff at someone saying that a Guardian does more damage than a Warrior, you are wrong, and there are lots of links to videos and other threads discussing it scattered throughout this thread.

Lolol right, not insulting? That would be called a lie. There are fact’s where? I see no hard evidence anywhere period, other than your x10 speed video of a party fully buffing a guardian which proves nothing.

there are enough facts on this forum. you just have to be able to use your braincells and search them.

if thats too hard for you, well, then i understand why you laugh about people who are telling you the right things.

and yes, they fully buff the guardian. add focus 5 or symbol to the ww dmg. because it doesnt lose you time. and you will get a number a fully buffed warrior wont reach on that target in the same time.
and thats only gs, we dont even need to talk about 1h sword autoattacks.

Whatever you wanna think. <3

Dementia.8621:

Whatever you wanna think. <3

thats the typical kind of response you write when you realize you are defeated.
get off your high horse already.

Rising Dusk.2408:

For the record, I melee everything on my Guardian. The only time I range anything is when I am eating dinner and doing legendary Grawl boss in F48 at the same time.

Then you limit your content. I don’t even fully melee my warrior. Go into AC, Grenth or TA Atherblade, try sticking to melee with short ranged. At times everyone needs to get some real distance while still providing some damage. If all you are doing is champ zergs, you’re set. It’s no secret guard lacks substantial long-range, it’s by design so everyone doesn’t just run with guards as the OP suggests.

NoTrigger.8396:

Dementia.8621:

Whatever you wanna think. <3

thats the typical kind of response you write when you realize you are defeated.
get off your high horse already.

Sure thing, you done yet?

Galtrix.7369:

By the way, you are wrong. Trust me. I’ve calculated the dps of the full zerk warrior and the full zerk guardian, and the warrior beats the guardian every time.

Sorry for the lack of trust, but I am math-savvy and would really love to see your calculations.

Dementia.8621:

NoTrigger.8396:

Dementia.8621:

Whatever you wanna think. <3

thats the typical kind of response you write when you realize you are defeated.
get off your high horse already.

Sure thing, you done yet?

So why do you think warriors out-DPS warriors?

Guardian 1h sword autoattack can go something like 6k-6k-15k which is around 11k DPS.

Warrior axe will go something like 5k-5k-5k-5k-5k-10k which is less DPS than guard since axe auto chain is 3.6s versus the 2.5s of sword chain, plus the damage is backloaded so if you don’t get that final swing your DPS drops further. As far as I know, hundred blades is a 2% DPS increase over axe auto, and it’s the combination of that and whirlwind which can burst for like 20k over 0.75s if all four hits connect which is why it’s used, but going axe/mace & axe/sword is actually perfectly fine and more consistent.

I’ll ask you like I asked Red Falcon, make a thread asking in the dungeon forum about warrior DPS vs. guards, and ask for calculations and/or video comparisons. You’ll probably get a response from the number crunchers in 24 hours max.

Vayne.8563:

Because when/if they nerf guardian, everyone who thinks like you do will be totally screwed. At any rate, most of the world is easy enough and some people like to challenge themselves…not everyone, but some people.

As long as they buff Necro…. I’ll still be all set without having to roll a Warrior. A pure zerker power+crit necro still lays waste to anything that’s immune to conditions and also aces the Simin DPS check with flying colors … especially with Blade Thirst for the passive Spark-running speed increase. Life-Sapping wells is also easy-mode there and wrecks tougher solo encounters such as Veteran Nobles/Subjugators that even my Guardian seems to have trouble with… (It’s all in the gear + Omnom Ghosts)

And even if they don’t buff my Necro, I’ve got a level 50 Mesmer heading to 80 pretty soon too… Clone spam is way too versatile in this game and the DPS you can generate is even stupider despite not quite being on par with Axe Zerker War. (then, again what it is? … besides a really well played/chained Guardian that is).

The best part is…. we were all making these same exact predictions on Guru the first week that Guardian was announced back in ….. 2011 ….I think it was? So it’s not for lack of preparation and foresight here. I think it’s obvious that Anet just wanted some classes to be Easy Mode …. (meaning I’m forced to play Ranger if I want hardmode dungeons/WvW)

It is rather interesting to see how man people who actively play the game totally misjudge it. Myself, I am a casual player and I don’t do much PvE, but I have been closely following the discussions around the game since BWE1. One big problem with the game is that most people just focus on one single class (that they play) and are ignorant of the subtleties of the other classes + blindly repeat the myths they hear elsewhere.

The fact is, colesy and others are absolutely right. Guardian sustain DPS > Warrior sustain DPS (in a bully buffed group). Its also easily to explain why most people find it hard to believe. First of all, Guardian is strongly associated with support roles. Secondly, Warrior perceivably hit higher numbers – what people forget is that 42K 100b has a cast time of 3.5s, which results in effective DPS of 12k for 100b only, but you also have to factor in the cooldown. Thirdly, Warriors clearly have higher DPS when played solo or in not min-maxed groups, because Warriors have easy access to offence buffs.

Colesy is also spot-on when talking about zerker gear. However, you must remember that this is about min-maxing! Glass cannon groups are the most efficient in PvE, but this requires very skilled players. Players of average skill (or noobs like me) are better off running defensive builds, which allow more margin for error. Under these circumstances, Warrior DPS will be higher again – simply because Guardian must sacrifice more DPS to get defence.

Tl;DR: indeed, in a properly min-maxed group, with highly skilled player Guardian DPS > Warrior DPS. Most players won’t get there though. Personally, I never cared about min-maxing. I just want to enjoy the game. I play guardian because of cool blue effects. I also play Warrior, because stuns and mobility is fun

Green plum wins the thread. +1000

That is why I laugh at people pretending they are hardcore skilled pve players and defend things like cleric/pvt in anything that’s not pug dungeons or average guild groups.

I prefer Warrior. The Warrior just seems to be able to shake a lot of damage off, while, doing a lot of damage in return.

Because some people don’t want to play as a guardian.

rjnemer.7816:

Dementia.8621:

[Walks in and reads]
“Guardians out-DPS warriors.”
[Walks out laughing hysterically]

LOL, your ignorance is whats hysterical. IF you take into consideration reflections, guardians have better dps then warriors.

Because warriors can take lupi down to 50% in less then 2 seconds right?

apparently you’ve never seen the world record with 3 warriors an ele with a fiery gs and a mesmer.
if the ele didnt have the fiery rush thing it be 4 warriors and a mesmer.

need any more proof that warriors do more?

4 warriors isnt max dps. and once again, no, a warrior doesnt deal more dps than a guardian, in a group.
when a guild takes 4 warriors its because they are lazy and warrior has more room for error + he is easier to play (and it always works, you cant go wrong with it)

and for reflections: a guardian can reflect the aoe in phase 2 as well as a mesmer. mesmer was mainly needed for the timewarp.

there are alot of guys from that guild on the forums. they will tell you the same.

this is the world record. and no, its not 3 or 4 warriors.

Finally someone speaks for me! Guardian Wars 2 is a good game

green plum.7514:

It is rather interesting to see how man people who actively play the game totally misjudge it. Myself, I am a casual player and I don’t do much PvE, but I have been closely following the discussions around the game since BWE1. One big problem with the game is that most people just focus on one single class (that they play) and are ignorant of the subtleties of the other classes + blindly repeat the myths they hear elsewhere.

The fact is, colesy and others are absolutely right. Guardian sustain DPS > Warrior sustain DPS (in a bully buffed group). Its also easily to explain why most people find it hard to believe. First of all, Guardian is strongly associated with support roles. Secondly, Warrior perceivably hit higher numbers – what people forget is that 42K 100b has a cast time of 3.5s, which results in effective DPS of 12k for 100b only, but you also have to factor in the cooldown. Thirdly, Warriors clearly have higher DPS when played solo or in not min-maxed groups, because Warriors have easy access to offence buffs.

Colesy is also spot-on when talking about zerker gear. However, you must remember that this is about min-maxing! Glass cannon groups are the most efficient in PvE, but this requires very skilled players. Players of average skill (or noobs like me) are better off running defensive builds, which allow more margin for error. Under these circumstances, Warrior DPS will be higher again – simply because Guardian must sacrifice more DPS to get defence.

Tl;DR: indeed, in a properly min-maxed group, with highly skilled player Guardian DPS > Warrior DPS. Most players won’t get there though. Personally, I never cared about min-maxing. I just want to enjoy the game. I play guardian because of cool blue effects. I also play Warrior, because stuns and mobility is fun

This guy says it best I think.

Every body has their own taste and performances. I love my guardian. And depending on how I spec it, I can do alot of different things with it. I can dps or I can survive.

For PvE, I have learned Zerker is probably the best option, if you can play it. Blinds/blocks and dodges will keep you on your feet. If not knights is a good second option. Unless its a world boss, luckly I have several sets from my time in WvW so I can swap out as needed if required.

Guardians can do massive damage, and if you crunch numbers is been proven enough they are higher. But honestly a theoretical number should not make all the die hard warriors cringe. For anyone who hasn’t done the math, which is 90% of the population the Warrior will still be the King of DPS, which is a title it can keep for all I care.

We all need to step back and enjoy the game. When Guild Wars 2 becomes more a job then my real one, its time for me to quit.

Draknar.5748:

Yaki.9563:

Red Falcon.8257:

That post shows no proofs, those numbers could easily be pulled out of the Great Hole in Divinity Reach if you know what I mean.
There is no data on how he got those numbers at all.

Proving this is pretty simple; just have one Warrior and one Guardian deal his best possible DPS chain for one minute minumum (else it just proves burst but not DPS).
Then compare the total damage and divide it by 60.

Until that test is done, properly and with no mistakes, your claim as the same validity as saying god exists.

The hilarity is you don’t realize the same can be said about your claim.

I don’t see how that’s true. His suggestion sounds like the best solution. Unless you’re saying you wouldn’t believe any numbers those players give because they could be making them up? Think a simple recording of both screens and then a detailed print-out of the combat log would put it all to rest. How could you argue those facts?

The point is he thinks the burden of proof lies on Guardians just because he personally thinks that Warriors do more DPS. Even when someone posted some evidence that, whether he likes it or not, is better than the nothing he has provided.

Draknar.5748:

Lunar Sunset.8742:

I think people are mistaking the forum warrior with warrior. Yes, guardians can out dps a warrior but cannot out dps a forum warrior. I hope that clears up the confusion.

Zerker warrior vs. Zerker guardian. Pretty sure warrior takes it every time in sustainable DPS. Enough people have claimed Guardians out-DPS warrior on this forum for me to demand evidence. Doubt it will ever surface though. Everyone wants to talk theory, nothing put into practice.

Your evidence has yet to surface either. Funny.

NoTrigger.8396:

Galtrix.7369:

Shelledfade.6435:

Galtrix.7369:

colesy.8490:

I can’t even tell you how wrong you are. I have to build defense on my Guardian to keep bad berserkers like you from dying in dungeons and in major events like Teq. Apparently you don’t realize that guardians like me keep you alive while you repeatedly try and kill yourselves because you are the bad ones that do not know how to build a balance of Offensive and Defensive stats. The attack animations for PvE are clear, yes, but you’re going to run out of endurance one time or another. And what are you going to do when that happens? The answer is die. I prevent that from happening while doing decent damage, and my dps probably isn’t too much lower than yours.

No, you’re wrong. Watch any speed run from guilds like DnT, Define or rT, they all roll five zerkers.

And for when you run out of endurance, well you can either get an energy sigil for 50% endurance on swap or use one of your class’s defense skills. Mesmers have blurred frenzy, distortion, illusionary riposte and the scepter block. Warriors have shield block, sword block and endure pain. Guardians have virtue of courage, retreat and focus 5.

What actually happens is these zerkers drop because your DPS is trash (and so the room for error increases the longer the fight progresses) and now you go think zerkers are bad. Don’t worry, lots of people think that. They’re wrong, and you’re wrong but if it makes you feel good.

If you think guardian does good dmg then you’ve never played a warrior.

Guardians out-DPS warriors.

“Guardians out-DPS warriors”. That sentence right there shows your ignorance, and as such, discredits your entire post above that. You might as well not have even posted that for all the good it will do. Berserkers suck. End of story. I’d like to see a Teq fight with 100% berserkers. You would all be dead in less than 7 minutes, guaranteed. Anyway, I’m done here. I can see we won’t agree on anything within this section of the forum.

While I agree with you that the guy above doesn’t know what he’s talking about, I duno what you’re talking about either. I do fractal 48, and the new aether dungeon on my zerk warrior no problem.

All you need is 1 or 2 support guardians, you don’t need warriors in toughness/knights gear when you’ve got that. It would be a waste of DPS.

I do have a toughness/vitality/power set when I’m against non-crit enemies like teq, so I don’t see what your point is. If you’re playing a warrior and you aren’t in zerk gear, you’re doing it wrong.

I’m talking about the more difficult content like Teq, dungeons, and Fractals here. And let me clarify… when I talk about berserkers sucking for this content, I’m talking about them sucking if there were no support build classes present. The support classes give them that extra boost of health/regen/endurance for the zerks to keep going. I was saying that berzerkers are terrible if they choose to have all zerkers in their party for difficult content. I don’t think berzerkers suck in general. The guy above was saying how my build was completely useless because it kept others alive, and that’s where this argument stemmed from.

my guild does lvl79/80 fractals and guess what gear they are using.
right, berserker.

and a full berserker guardian can support as well as a pvt guardian. the only difference is, that the full berserker guardian (when he is good and can survive in full berserker) deals more damage and helps the group to kill targets.

we dont even need to talk about healing guardians. healing scales so bad and healing wont help to keep bad players alive and is useless in good groups, because good players dont die anyway.

So my Healing Signet is useless? Thanks for the info.

Wolfheart.1938:

Green plum wins the thread. +1000

That is why I laugh at people pretending they are hardcore skilled pve players and defend things like cleric/pvt in anything that’s not pug dungeons or average guild groups.

Most dungeon runs in the game are pug dungeons or average guild groups. By a huge margin.

I don’t enjoy playing guardian, reason enough for me. Quit crying and play what you like, been thief since beta and apparently they suck in pve…

I have the best blast finishers, can escape anything, can perma blind, and have excellent AoE & self healing with SoM not to mention my thousand evades. Pretty sure I wouldn’t trade that for a boring guardian that just face tanks everything, no offense to those that enjoy that.

Strange that the discussion has turned into a warrior vs. guardian hate-fest when the situation in which the two are being compared – the hypothetical constant 25 might, 100% fury scenario – more or less requires the services of an ele or mesmer to achieve.

As to OP’s question why I play anything besides a guardian – and I have a warrior and a guard (who I gladly run in fractal 48) and five other 80s besides – it’s because dungeons are about overall team DPS and I prefer to actually contribute to that by playing warrior or ele rather than spend an hour in every dungeon path telling my team about how much damage I could do with my sword auto if only they provided me with 25 stacks of might and constant fury, which no pug outside of CoE does. When bearbow rangers and PVT mace guards show up in the lfg, I want my banners and FGJ, not aegis’s and protections that are not really needed in 90% of dungeon content.

The facts that not everyone are guardians render this question moot. Different people are attracted to different class. We don’t play because we look for a smooth experience. My main is a guardian, since the game started, and before I chose him, I had no idea he would be “the most balanced” class.

Some people are still in denial in here. Green Plum pretty much summed up everything that needed to be said.

Funset.7893:

Caramel Ham.4891:

Guardians do similar dmg to warriors

Joke of the year!

The joke’s on you, because it’s no joke.

I finally got around to modeling thief, which gives me a full DPS tier list, and it looks like this:

Max buffed, from best to worst:

Mesmer (Sw/Sw with 3 phantasms) = ~15k
Thief (D/D backstab) = ~13.5k
Elementalist (fire staff or LH) = ~13k
Guardian (GS+Sword) = ~11k
Necromancer (D/F+WH with all minions) = ~11k
Warrior (Axe+GS) = ~10k
Ranger (Sword and Feline pet) = ~9.5k
Engineer (Grenades) = ~9k

Daywolf.2630:

Then you limit your content. I don’t even fully melee my warrior. Go into AC, Grenth or TA Atherblade, try sticking to melee with short ranged. At times everyone needs to get some real distance while still providing some damage. If all you are doing is champ zergs, you’re set. It’s no secret guard lacks substantial long-range, it’s by design so everyone doesn’t just run with guards as the OP suggests.

I’ve done AC and new TA in full melee. What is the problem with it? You shouldn’t include world bosses into that because:

• there’s too many particles on them making dodging much harder
• the boss is upscaled to ridiculous proportions
• you can go afk with ranged weapons anyway so no one cares about that
• even if you want to challenge yourself, your 2-3x higher damage in melee won’t change much because of 100 zerglings with cleric’s/ptv gear using staves.