Guild Wars 2

PlagueParade.7942

@AlietteFaye and oloap

No, some ppl are more efficient (or are able to help a party more or are not yet good enough but are working towards being able to use a full zerker set) with a different stat set and maybe actually makes the party more effecient wearing their other stat gear. Or an obvious reason that you both seem to have missed completely… wait for it… waaaaaiiiiiiiiiiiitttttttttt for IIIIIIIIIIIIIIT…………. MF armor. And yeah, I’ve read in forums of ppl doing this exact thing.

But this doesn’t exclude the fact that GW2’s emphasis is on VARIETY, which we keep seeing with all the different stats of armor they have and will probably continue to make. The latest being Sentinal stats that emphasize vitality over power.

man,
can’t agree more on this!!!!!!!
maybe i expressed myself badly, i don’t want a number to pop-up at the end of dungeon/event saying : x dps, you overkill! quake stile.
if i did 100000000000damage total i want to know how many per second average, how many were influenced by that guardian 12 stack of might, how many damanges he avoided me.
or how many were from timewarp from that mesmer or how many from that ele’s auras..
you get it?
this is the only way to PROVE ppl dps is not the only thing to count and clearly show them that a dead dps does less dps than a tanky char.
only reason why it is not here and will never be, is because that would make cristal clear that the gam is not balanced at all and would require anet to actually work on fixes and not just plug a kork in the hole when they realize time warp can melt everything.
lol could even come out engis are woth something at the end right?
;)

I see no point in actually putting an opinion to the OP that doesn’t actually side with his/her desire for DPS meters.. everyone that disagrees is obviously wrong or doesn’t understand etc etc.

GW2LFG does get filled with the “must be zerk warrior” mindset posts, simply because (and I will use the most popular dungeon) CoF1 is nothing more than a speed run fiasco created by Anets poor understanding of their own balancing mechanics.

If warrior DPS was balanced back towards other classes then those LFG’s would shiftshape into the next desired DPS build until ANET finally address the holes that exist.

There really aren’t that many options to class builds in GW2 anyway so the ones that do stand out currently become noticeably obvious very quickly… PvE, WwV, PvP has no balance across them pure and simply and until something is done, and I mean properly done not just knee-jerk nerfbat reactions to classes, then DPS monkey posts and “special snowflake, look at my DPS” requests will only increase to get speedruns done asap.

Taking out things like healing trinity is great on paper, but it has made for the game to become nothing more than zerg wars, where tactics and teamplay become lost in the numbers game… miss out as many engagements as possible, run to the end boss and dps dps dps.. take loot, log off… and its why I think the game has lost a lot of substance so soon.. for me at least… solution – provide classes more build variance and dungeons, WvW, PvP more challenging in the form of requirements within it.

Until this happens.. things like DPS meters will only serve to further segregate the playerbase.. moreso than the poor class balancing already does.

anytime a tool is suggested to extend the ability of current features, you have:

a group that cries “doom” and the fostering of elitism. Most of their evidence lies in fantastic hypotheticals— “DPS meters will prevent me from joining groups and make me play a way i dont want”

And another group that recognizes the positive aspects, while downplaying the negative effects the tools will have on the community based.

yet, you never really from these mystical Elitists that are trying to ruin the game for everyone. I’m starting to believe they don’t exist, or simply don’t have the power or control over the game that some people would lead you to believe.

In my experience, DPS statistics tend to outweigh every other form of competency feedback for many people. For example, people will show pride in their DPS statistics even when the group wipes.

It would be cool if they could somehow create some sort of ELO-ish rating for PvE that, among other things, accurately credits you for carrying bad players through dungeons. It would be fun to have a statistic that shows a complete picture of your competency, but DPS isn’t that (and even making non-DPS statistics available isn’t enough).

Bloodstealer.5978

I see no point in actually putting an opinion to the OP that doesn’t actually side with his/her desire for DPS meters.. everyone that disagrees is obviously wrong or doesn’t understand etc etc.

GW2LFG does get filled with the “must be zerk warrior” mindset posts, simply because (and I will use the most popular dungeon) CoF1 is nothing more than a speed run fiasco created by Anets poor understanding of their own balancing mechanics.

If warrior DPS was balanced back towards other classes then those LFG’s would shiftshape into the next desired DPS build until ANET finally address the holes that exist.

There really aren’t that many options to class builds in GW2 anyway so the ones that do stand out currently become noticeably obvious very quickly… PvE, WwV, PvP has no balance across them pure and simply and until something is done, and I mean properly done not just knee-jerk nerfbat reactions to classes, then DPS monkey posts and “special snowflake, look at my DPS” requests will only increase to get speedruns done asap.

Taking out things like healing trinity is great on paper, but it has made for the game to become nothing more than zerg wars, where tactics and teamplay become lost in the numbers game… miss out as many engagements as possible, run to the end boss and dps dps dps.. take loot, log off… and its why I think the game has lost a lot of substance so soon.. for me at least… solution – provide classes more build variance and dungeons, WvW, PvP more challenging in the form of requirements within it.

Until this happens.. things like DPS meters will only serve to further segregate the playerbase.. moreso than the poor class balancing already does.

i mostly agree with you, but what i’m trying to say is that segregation work both ways..
We all hate elitists, but for some wired reasons we consider them the best players and try to join their groups..
as i said segregation is two headed sword, they don’t want noobs?, i gladly take them, when they’ll find amongst them elittist jerks guess who’ll have fun?
is like saying that is not Always the best to play in the major League to have fun, if you play football in a series (italy), you most likely end up not having fun for the pressure of performance and so on, ofc you’ll be kitten rich and with a lot of chicks running around your house..
but i didn’t see any naked chick runnin around them in la..;)

no. you should not be able to scrutinize fellow players’ build choice.
if you keep wiping, just leave. they’ll probably find a replacement 5th and do just fine.

One downside to DPS meters is that there are some classes that just can’t help it. Take the engineer- they have 1 build that kind of, sort of maybe if you are drunk and blind in one eye, resembles a DPS build. The rest are just support builds. Support isn’t just healing, but also boon buffing + condition cleansing + stunning + conditioning, etc. All of these are very unlikely to get their own meters, so some classes will simply be considered ineffective on the basis of these meters automatically.

This could cause a lot of problems for a lot of people.

That said, a PERSONAL dps meter is an outstanding idea. If you want to know your own DPS, then by all means you should see it. Hell, I’d love to see one just for build making.

AlietteFaye.7316:

Mungrul.9358:

AlietteFaye.7316:

Warriors are indefinitely more wanted than Guardians*. For their DPS.

*for CoF P1.

Go to GW2LFG and show me anywhere that specifies “LF Support Guardian”, then. They aren’t any more requested than any other class.

Have you tried playing WvWvW? or tPvP? Ignorant about bunkers?

Pve Scrub.

alcopaul.2156:

Pve Scrub.

Who even says scrub anymore?

The term you were looking for is “carebear” :-P

alcopaul.2156:

AlietteFaye.7316:

Mungrul.9358:

AlietteFaye.7316:

Warriors are indefinitely more wanted than Guardians*. For their DPS.

*for CoF P1.

Go to GW2LFG and show me anywhere that specifies “LF Support Guardian”, then. They aren’t any more requested than any other class.

Have you tried playing WvWvW? or tPvP? Ignorant about bunkers?

Pve Scrub.

Yes, I have. I play WvW pretty often. Why the heck would you need a DPS meter for WvW? We were talking about PvE when I said that. Please go back and read.

AlietteFaye.7316:

alcopaul.2156:

AlietteFaye.7316:

Mungrul.9358:

AlietteFaye.7316:

Warriors are indefinitely more wanted than Guardians*. For their DPS.

*for CoF P1.

Go to GW2LFG and show me anywhere that specifies “LF Support Guardian”, then. They aren’t any more requested than any other class.

Have you tried playing WvWvW? or tPvP? Ignorant about bunkers?

Pve Scrub.

Yes, I have. I play WvW pretty often. Why the heck would you need a DPS meter for WvW? We were talking about PvE when I said that. Please go back and read.

DPS meter in WvW could show overall dmg, which would be cool to know. A lot of variables to weigh, but it would be cool to know, anyway. Also, you can still determine the DPS of certain rotations (most applicable to 1v1s or PvDoors)

Scrambles.2604:

AlietteFaye.7316:

alcopaul.2156:

AlietteFaye.7316:

Mungrul.9358:

AlietteFaye.7316:

Warriors are indefinitely more wanted than Guardians*. For their DPS.

*for CoF P1.

Go to GW2LFG and show me anywhere that specifies “LF Support Guardian”, then. They aren’t any more requested than any other class.

Have you tried playing WvWvW? or tPvP? Ignorant about bunkers?

Pve Scrub.

Yes, I have. I play WvW pretty often. Why the heck would you need a DPS meter for WvW? We were talking about PvE when I said that. Please go back and read.

DPS meter in WvW could show overall dmg, which would be cool to know. A lot of variables to weigh, but it would be cool to know, anyway. Also, you can still determine the DPS of certain rotations (most applicable to 1v1s or PvDoors)

That would be a damage meter, although I guess it might be neat to know? I dunno. It seems pointless as it would more than likely only show the damage/DPS of people in your party, and that wouldn’t really help too much in WvW.

Regardless, I was defending myself against somebody that was attacking me baselessly. No harm no foul with you.

Why there should not be a dps meter.

There is no dps profession.

It’s really that simple.

Science.6709:

I have to say though, if someone was doing insanely high DPS in wow, you could peek at their stats and see how they were doing it.

If someone was doing insanely high DPS in WoW, a boss would also turn around and wipe the whole raid in seconds. Fortunately, GW2 isn’t WoW.

Scrambles.2604:

DPS meter in WvW could show overall dmg, which would be cool to know. A lot of variables to weigh, but it would be cool to know, anyway. Also, you can still determine the DPS of certain rotations (most applicable to 1v1s or PvDoors)

Rotations? What rotations? Skills have far too much of a situational element for any generic rotation to do anything more than ultimately kitten you overall. People still seem to have trouble realizing that damage/control/support isn’t tied to your character, it’s tied to your skills. Most skills have two or three of these attributes tied to them. While you could cast them on cool down they’re far more effective when used at better times, not sooner times.

Then let’s consider other factors. Say I drop a null field which gets stomped so now everyone in the area has chaos armor. How much damage do I get credit for from the confusion stacks caused by this to the enemies? How do you credit any condition damage at all, be it direct or indirect? Say Joe Necro applies a poison to my mesmer who in turn decides that that is rather rude so he gives the poison back to the necro. Who get’s credit for what?

This game is not built, no matter how you slice it, in a way that a raw damage or dps number can reflect actual combat. You can’t sit in a rotation and optimally fire away. You could be “perfect”, yet blocks, dodges etc. all skew the numbers. A dps meter simply does not make sense in GW2.

VOLKON.1290:

Scrambles.2604:

DPS meter in WvW could show overall dmg, which would be cool to know. A lot of variables to weigh, but it would be cool to know, anyway. Also, you can still determine the DPS of certain rotations (most applicable to 1v1s or PvDoors)

Rotations? What rotations? Skills have far too much of a situational element for any generic rotation to do anything more than ultimately kitten you overall. People still seem to have trouble realizing that damage/control/support isn’t tied to your character, it’s tied to your skills. Most skills have two or three of these attributes tied to them. While you could cast them on cool down they’re far more effective when used at better times, not sooner times.

Then let’s consider other factors. Say I drop a null field which gets stomped so now everyone in the area has chaos armor. How much damage do I get credit for from the confusion stacks caused by this to the enemies? How do you credit any condition damage at all, be it direct or indirect? Say Joe Necro applies a poison to my mesmer who in turn decides that that is rather rude so he gives the poison back to the necro. Who get’s credit for what?

This game is not built, no matter how you slice it, in a way that a raw damage or dps number can reflect actual combat. You can’t sit in a rotation and optimally fire away. You could be “perfect”, yet blocks, dodges etc. all skew the numbers. A dps meter simply does not make sense in GW2.

I will have you know my Ele has a refined and distinct rotation i use to stack might. Although, it could change if i knew how much DPS i was getting from it.

DPS meters were never intended to reflect “actual combat.” It’s just refined data that can be extrapolated to represent certain areas of combat. Not everything is about straight DPS, so if you rely solely on DPS meters as a basis of performance you are not using the tool or assessing performance properly.

AlietteFaye.7316:

alcopaul.2156:

with this dps meter, surely my guardian won’t be accepted to any parties because i specced him with support.

dps meter is good in games like diablo III because all the characters do there is to dps. Guild Wars 2 is not diablo III or dps only game.

but it’s good to have for personal use.

Is this a joke or no? There is literally no reason not to go full DPS for GW2 PvE. Support and Tank are a waste of time that just make everything take longer. I hope that they change this, but in the current implementation of dungeons, there isn’t a single fight where having better DPS wouldn’t make it a lot easier and a lot a faster.

The player enjoys doing support.
If you don’t want that person in your party then list it as such in the LFG site.

Dangerkips.6035:

skittlebob.4850:

Requesting yet another DPS meter? In this forum??

You brave, brave soul.

Indeed, you’d better run for cover OP. There’s a deluge of angry scrubs comin your way.

Awww don’t run, c’mon aren’t you specced enough with DPS or such to handle such a zerg?

We don’t need tools (players or otherwise) to make this a job. It’s a game, it is GW2 not Math Blaster.

Scrambles.2604:

VOLKON.1290:

Scrambles.2604:

DPS meter in WvW could show overall dmg, which would be cool to know. A lot of variables to weigh, but it would be cool to know, anyway. Also, you can still determine the DPS of certain rotations (most applicable to 1v1s or PvDoors)

Rotations? What rotations? Skills have far too much of a situational element for any generic rotation to do anything more than ultimately kitten you overall. People still seem to have trouble realizing that damage/control/support isn’t tied to your character, it’s tied to your skills. Most skills have two or three of these attributes tied to them. While you could cast them on cool down they’re far more effective when used at better times, not sooner times.

Then let’s consider other factors. Say I drop a null field which gets stomped so now everyone in the area has chaos armor. How much damage do I get credit for from the confusion stacks caused by this to the enemies? How do you credit any condition damage at all, be it direct or indirect? Say Joe Necro applies a poison to my mesmer who in turn decides that that is rather rude so he gives the poison back to the necro. Who get’s credit for what?

This game is not built, no matter how you slice it, in a way that a raw damage or dps number can reflect actual combat. You can’t sit in a rotation and optimally fire away. You could be “perfect”, yet blocks, dodges etc. all skew the numbers. A dps meter simply does not make sense in GW2.

I will have you know my Ele has a refined and distinct rotation i use to stack might. Although, it could change if i knew how much DPS i was getting from it.

DPS meters were never intended to reflect “actual combat.” It’s just refined data that can be extrapolated to represent certain areas of combat. Not everything is about straight DPS, so if you rely solely on DPS meters as a basis of performance you are not using the tool or assessing performance properly.

And you think the majority of the ppl that would use DPS meters would use it properly? Seriously?

Scrambles.2604:

VOLKON.1290:

Scrambles.2604:

DPS meter in WvW could show overall dmg, which would be cool to know. A lot of variables to weigh, but it would be cool to know, anyway. Also, you can still determine the DPS of certain rotations (most applicable to 1v1s or PvDoors)

Rotations? What rotations? Skills have far too much of a situational element for any generic rotation to do anything more than ultimately kitten you overall. People still seem to have trouble realizing that damage/control/support isn’t tied to your character, it’s tied to your skills. Most skills have two or three of these attributes tied to them. While you could cast them on cool down they’re far more effective when used at better times, not sooner times.

Then let’s consider other factors. Say I drop a null field which gets stomped so now everyone in the area has chaos armor. How much damage do I get credit for from the confusion stacks caused by this to the enemies? How do you credit any condition damage at all, be it direct or indirect? Say Joe Necro applies a poison to my mesmer who in turn decides that that is rather rude so he gives the poison back to the necro. Who get’s credit for what?

This game is not built, no matter how you slice it, in a way that a raw damage or dps number can reflect actual combat. You can’t sit in a rotation and optimally fire away. You could be “perfect”, yet blocks, dodges etc. all skew the numbers. A dps meter simply does not make sense in GW2.

I will have you know my Ele has a refined and distinct rotation i use to stack might. Although, it could change if i knew how much DPS i was getting from it.

DPS meters were never intended to reflect “actual combat.” It’s just refined data that can be extrapolated to represent certain areas of combat. Not everything is about straight DPS, so if you rely solely on DPS meters as a basis of performance you are not using the tool or assessing performance properly.

On my hunter in WoW, the dps meter pretty much did show actual combat. Plant the hunter, start rotation. Stare at the pretty numbers until some audible warning triggered a muscle memory reflex to move in a certain direction or to a certain spot. Restart rotation as fast as possible. That was it. The dps meter showed how well you followed the script in combat as well as if you were using the “right” rotation and the “right” gear.

Now, you have what you call a rotation to stack might. You say that might change if you knew how much dps you were getting from it? Yet your numbers would be completely thrown off my effective dodging, blocking, range control, any of that. You fire attacks at me… oops, that’s a clone. Sorry, you did no damage to me. DPS meter is useless.

PlagueParade.7942:

Scrambles.2604:

VOLKON.1290:

Scrambles.2604:

DPS meter in WvW could show overall dmg, which would be cool to know. A lot of variables to weigh, but it would be cool to know, anyway. Also, you can still determine the DPS of certain rotations (most applicable to 1v1s or PvDoors)

Rotations? What rotations? Skills have far too much of a situational element for any generic rotation to do anything more than ultimately kitten you overall. People still seem to have trouble realizing that damage/control/support isn’t tied to your character, it’s tied to your skills. Most skills have two or three of these attributes tied to them. While you could cast them on cool down they’re far more effective when used at better times, not sooner times.

Then let’s consider other factors. Say I drop a null field which gets stomped so now everyone in the area has chaos armor. How much damage do I get credit for from the confusion stacks caused by this to the enemies? How do you credit any condition damage at all, be it direct or indirect? Say Joe Necro applies a poison to my mesmer who in turn decides that that is rather rude so he gives the poison back to the necro. Who get’s credit for what?

This game is not built, no matter how you slice it, in a way that a raw damage or dps number can reflect actual combat. You can’t sit in a rotation and optimally fire away. You could be “perfect”, yet blocks, dodges etc. all skew the numbers. A dps meter simply does not make sense in GW2.

I will have you know my Ele has a refined and distinct rotation i use to stack might. Although, it could change if i knew how much DPS i was getting from it.

DPS meters were never intended to reflect “actual combat.” It’s just refined data that can be extrapolated to represent certain areas of combat. Not everything is about straight DPS, so if you rely solely on DPS meters as a basis of performance you are not using the tool or assessing performance properly.

And you think the majority of the ppl that use DPS meters do using it properly? Seriously?

I don’t know about the “majority,” but i will argue that someone using it properly will be less noticable then someone using it wrong. It is in the nature of trolls and bad-mannered people that they make themselves noticed. That doesn’t mean there are only negative aspects of dps meters. And those people will thrive and continue to thrive with or without dps meters.

“When you’ve done everything right, people wont be sure that you’ve done anything at all.”

Scrambles.2604:

PlagueParade.7942:

Scrambles.2604:

VOLKON.1290:

Scrambles.2604:

DPS meter in WvW could show overall dmg, which would be cool to know. A lot of variables to weigh, but it would be cool to know, anyway. Also, you can still determine the DPS of certain rotations (most applicable to 1v1s or PvDoors)

Rotations? What rotations? Skills have far too much of a situational element for any generic rotation to do anything more than ultimately kitten you overall. People still seem to have trouble realizing that damage/control/support isn’t tied to your character, it’s tied to your skills. Most skills have two or three of these attributes tied to them. While you could cast them on cool down they’re far more effective when used at better times, not sooner times.

Then let’s consider other factors. Say I drop a null field which gets stomped so now everyone in the area has chaos armor. How much damage do I get credit for from the confusion stacks caused by this to the enemies? How do you credit any condition damage at all, be it direct or indirect? Say Joe Necro applies a poison to my mesmer who in turn decides that that is rather rude so he gives the poison back to the necro. Who get’s credit for what?

This game is not built, no matter how you slice it, in a way that a raw damage or dps number can reflect actual combat. You can’t sit in a rotation and optimally fire away. You could be “perfect”, yet blocks, dodges etc. all skew the numbers. A dps meter simply does not make sense in GW2.

I will have you know my Ele has a refined and distinct rotation i use to stack might. Although, it could change if i knew how much DPS i was getting from it.

DPS meters were never intended to reflect “actual combat.” It’s just refined data that can be extrapolated to represent certain areas of combat. Not everything is about straight DPS, so if you rely solely on DPS meters as a basis of performance you are not using the tool or assessing performance properly.

And you think the majority of the ppl that use DPS meters do using it properly? Seriously?

I don’t know about the “majority,” but i will argue that someone using it properly will be less noticable then someone using it wrong. It is in the nature of trolls and bad-mannered people that they make themselves noticed. That doesn’t mean there are only negative aspects of dps meters. And those people will thrive and continue to thrive with or without dps meters.

“When you’ve done everything right, people wont be sure that you’ve done anything at all.”

“A person is smart, people are stupid.” -Agent K

The only thing a party will look at is how much DPS you do. I will admit that there will be people that use a DPS meter effectively but the “majority,” as you put it, will not. This has been proven time and again in every MMO that has had DPS meters implemented. A DPS meter implemented in this game will be the foundation to crumble everything A-net said this game wouldn’t be.

Iruwen.3164:

Science.6709:

I have to say though, if someone was doing insanely high DPS in wow, you could peek at their stats and see how they were doing it.

If someone was doing insanely high DPS in WoW, a boss would also turn around and wipe the whole raid in seconds. Fortunately, GW2 isn’t WoW.

GW2 isn’t WoW, correct. Aggro and aggro management are not the same in GW2 as it was in WoW.

What I’m saying is that there are good points of DPS meters, one being that they’re an effective tool for improvement and analysis. Don’t get me wrong, I’m not one of those people who look only at numbers and want to kick people from groups if they aren’t perfect. Far from it, and that’s why I ultimately don’t mind if DPS meters never show up in GW2.

Instead of actually having DPS meters, how about combat/chat logging? I mean, why bother with a statistic that generally shows damage done when it’s just one part of combat? GW2 is a game where combat is action based, and skills have a relative hit/miss ratio not due to stats, but due to positioning?

Instead of that, make a system that allows for replays and can output them in verbatim form as either text/data file, which can then be fixed by supported/third party utilities. That way, people have a clear idea on how they are performing.

As much as I would LOVE a tool built into the game (as opposed to being forced to use a third party tool) that allowed me to track personal (not public) data (not just damage, but everything from xp/time to % of time under the effects of each boon or condition to coin made per unit of time), the problem is that much of the required data isn’t reported. Even a lot of damage isn’t reported or tracked currently. Until (if?) that changes, such a tool will not happen.

AlietteFaye.7316:

alcopaul.2156:

AlietteFaye.7316:

Mungrul.9358:

AlietteFaye.7316:

Warriors are indefinitely more wanted than Guardians*. For their DPS.

*for CoF P1.

Go to GW2LFG and show me anywhere that specifies “LF Support Guardian”, then. They aren’t any more requested than any other class.

Have you tried playing WvWvW? or tPvP? Ignorant about bunkers?

Pve Scrub.

Yes, I have. I play WvW pretty often. Why the heck would you need a DPS meter for WvW? We were talking about PvE when I said that. Please go back and read.

go back and read my post too. i said Guild Wars 2 is not a “DPS only” game.

Erasculio.2914:

This is a bad idea. People would focus too much on DPS and ignore everything else.

“But the meter would show everything, not only DPS” – even assuming meters could display everything, that would be useless. Just as today people want only to see offensive stats and ignore defensive stats, people would ignore everything else and focus only on DPS. Someone showing that he healed a lot of team members but did little DPS would be kicked as quickly as someone today wearing Healing Power gear.

“But today people are already elitist with profession and stats!” – and that’s an issue ArenaNet should fix, not a problem to increase even more. The OP is also assuming that a DPS meter would make people ignore profession and gear, focusing instead on DPS; but I don’t believe in that. People will find a specific profession + armor + build combination that has higher DPS than everything else, and accept only that combination, nothing else. We would see even less diversity, not more. Even if ArenaNet were to nerf that specific combination, people would jump to the second highest DPS one, and so on; ArenaNet would never be able to reach a state of balance in which multiple professions with multiple stats and multiple builds have the exact same DPS.

While I disagree with the conclusions of Erasculio’s earlier review, I totally agree with the post above-nothing else needs be added to the current discussion, IMHO.

alcopaul.2156:

AlietteFaye.7316:

alcopaul.2156:

AlietteFaye.7316:

Mungrul.9358:

AlietteFaye.7316:

Warriors are indefinitely more wanted than Guardians*. For their DPS.

*for CoF P1.

Go to GW2LFG and show me anywhere that specifies “LF Support Guardian”, then. They aren’t any more requested than any other class.

Have you tried playing WvWvW? or tPvP? Ignorant about bunkers?

Pve Scrub.

Yes, I have. I play WvW pretty often. Why the heck would you need a DPS meter for WvW? We were talking about PvE when I said that. Please go back and read.

go back and read my post too. i said Guild Wars 2 is not a “DPS only” game.

Yeah, that’s great and all. But it is very much so in PvE. There are no encounters that even encourage players to going support. The way that they currently have things set up, there isn’t a point in going anything but DPS. Which is why I said exactly what I said.

AlietteFaye.7316:

alcopaul.2156:

AlietteFaye.7316:

alcopaul.2156:

AlietteFaye.7316:

Mungrul.9358:

AlietteFaye.7316:

Warriors are indefinitely more wanted than Guardians*. For their DPS.

*for CoF P1.

Go to GW2LFG and show me anywhere that specifies “LF Support Guardian”, then. They aren’t any more requested than any other class.

Have you tried playing WvWvW? or tPvP? Ignorant about bunkers?

Pve Scrub.

Yes, I have. I play WvW pretty often. Why the heck would you need a DPS meter for WvW? We were talking about PvE when I said that. Please go back and read.

go back and read my post too. i said Guild Wars 2 is not a “DPS only” game.

Yeah, that’s great and all. But it is very much so in PvE. There are no encounters that even encourage players to going support. The way that they currently have things set up, there isn’t a point in going anything but DPS. Which is why I said exactly what I said.

Speak for yourself, though, as there are many players who don’t follow that GW2 is all about DPS mantra-maybe to you, and that’s fine, but not for many others, and they are not wrong for playing the game differently than you would (don’t mean to anger/debate with you.)

1. I don’t like clutter on my screen. The original UI is perfect and out of my way so I can see. Where am I going to put all the DPS, healing, revive, condition damage, condition removal, boons, dodges, and interrupt meters??? Too much crap – get it off my screen!

2. You want self improvement? How many times do you enter the downed state in a dungeon? There’s your self improvement. If you go down in a dungeon one time, then you obviously have room to improve to going down zero times the next round. No need for this meter nonsense.

Scrambles.2604:

AlietteFaye.7316:

alcopaul.2156:

AlietteFaye.7316:

Mungrul.9358:

AlietteFaye.7316:

Warriors are indefinitely more wanted than Guardians*. For their DPS.

*for CoF P1.

Go to GW2LFG and show me anywhere that specifies “LF Support Guardian”, then. They aren’t any more requested than any other class.

Have you tried playing WvWvW? or tPvP? Ignorant about bunkers?

Pve Scrub.

Yes, I have. I play WvW pretty often. Why the heck would you need a DPS meter for WvW? We were talking about PvE when I said that. Please go back and read.

DPS meter in WvW could show overall dmg, which would be cool to know. A lot of variables to weigh, but it would be cool to know, anyway. Also, you can still determine the DPS of certain rotations (most applicable to 1v1s or PvDoors)

Sorry a DPS meter in WvWvW is to all intent and purpose useless….. the only numbers that are relevant is the one determining the size of your zerg. It doesn’t make a blind bit of difference if your pulling sub-par DPS or if your that special snowflake cos when a zerg hits, the only thing that’s gunna matter is how many of you are stood in the way of it.

Scrambles.2604:

anytime a tool is suggested to extend the ability of current features, you have:

a group that cries “doom” and the fostering of elitism. Most of their evidence lies in fantastic hypotheticals— “DPS meters will prevent me from joining groups and make me play a way i dont want”

And another group that recognizes the positive aspects, while downplaying the negative effects the tools will have on the community based.

yet, you never really from these mystical Elitists that are trying to ruin the game for everyone. I’m starting to believe they don’t exist, or simply don’t have the power or control over the game that some people would lead you to believe.

Most mystical elitists, as you put it, don’t consider themselves elitists. They think they’re perfectly fine. If you went and put up a thread targeting bigots, you wouldn’t expect people to put up their hands. Are you suggesting bigotry doesn’t exist?

DPS meter only grows elitism. DPS meter for yourself is not bad and only track yours. But its become bad if it can check other player DPS.

AGAIN with this?

Some people just need to leave and go play WoW if they want it so bad…

If you consider DPS meter, try to play PvP. When you die, you will see “DPS meter” there, and you will be surprised, condition do 100 k damage to you.

deviller.9135:

If you consider DPS meter, try to play PvP. When you die, you will see “DPS meter” there, and you will be surprised, condition do 100 k damage to you.

I want this thing implemented in wvw, but it’s not really feasible given that you’re getting hit by 50 different spells in under a second =/

WoW has dps meters. GW2 does not.

Any questions?

Number get bigger = me stronk smash!

Why do you need stupid numbers to tell that you’ve made a progression?

deviller.9135
If you consider DPS meter, try to play PvP. When you die, you will see “DPS meter” there, and you will be surprised, condition do 100 k damage to you.

Exactly this, that’s what i expect from a dps meter. but far more extended that that one we see in pvp.

kokiman.2364
Number get bigger = me stronk smash!
Why do you need stupid numbers to tell that you’ve made a progression?

i understand that that may not apeal everybody, but “theorycrafting” is a huge part of the endgame for some people at least.
i see complains about build varieties but imho without tools is just 100b=30k=me stronk smash!
…..

i’m no expert on this, i also admit i never ever played a game with such meters or trinity or those stuff.
i just think that the data provided to us is largely unsufficent, and hardly sortable specially for beginners.
Also the agro mechanism is an obscure sience for most(me included lol).
we all know that power, prec, crit scales well togetherso you use exlusively this and get max dps..
but what about build and traits? and if you wnat to mix better lose some precision or power or what?
also, condition damange or duration? thougnes or vit?
since the game is already dps or death i dont see how such tool could make thing worst.

My grenades give vulnerabilities on hit. Should a percentage of the warrior’s 100b damage be attributed to me instead since I gave him 3-5-10% extra incoming damage?

Don’t we already have our own version of a dps meter, kind of, in chat, it doesn’t really show crits but it shows what you’ve been doing, its not the best but it works. I honestly don’t think the game needs a dps meter or anything that lets you compare how much work everyone has done in PvE. If you put it in PvP I guess they can add something to the death marker.

CoF p1 4zerker wars and mes are a joke, with a good mixed party you clear just as fast as them.

AlietteFaye.7316:

Yeah, that’s great and all. But it is very much so in PvE. There are no encounters that even encourage players to going support. The way that they currently have things set up, there isn’t a point in going anything but DPS. Which is why I said exactly what I said.

It doesn’t matter if players have encouragement to go support or not- some don’t have a choice. Take Engineer. Besides grenades, they don’t even have a second pure DPS build. That means every engineer forever would always need to go grenade, or get heckled out of dungeons by noobs who think everything comes down to how big of a number is on the DPS meter.

Not sure I’d enjoy that, myself.

Tolmos.8395:

AlietteFaye.7316:

Yeah, that’s great and all. But it is very much so in PvE. There are no encounters that even encourage players to going support. The way that they currently have things set up, there isn’t a point in going anything but DPS. Which is why I said exactly what I said.

It doesn’t matter if players have encouragement to go support or not- some don’t have a choice. Take Engineer. Besides grenades, they don’t even have a second pure DPS build. That means every engineer forever would always need to go grenade, or get heckled out of dungeons by noobs who think everything comes down to how big of a number is on the DPS meter.

Not sure I’d enjoy that, myself.

A few of my favorite utilities I bring on my mesmer are Null Field, Feedback and Arcane Thievery. The first two are obviously support, but the fields they put up can be used for added effects as well. The benefits they provide to a party can’t be measured by a dps meter yet they’re far more valuable than a pure dps flavored utility (if they exist). Conditions I remove from allies or damage reflected back to the source that never hits allies… that increases ally output by reducing the time they need to spend curing their own conditions or healing (or avoiding) damage.

Tolmos.8395:

Take Engineer. Besides grenades, they don’t even have a second pure DPS build.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/engineer/Non-grenade-PvE-builds/2144688

WatchTheShow.7203:

—
2. You want self improvement? How many times do you enter the downed state in a dungeon? There’s your self improvement. If you go down in a dungeon one time, then you obviously have room to improve to going down zero times the next round. No need for this meter nonsense.

Ahh, so that’s why that Ranger was max-ranging with pvt-armor. Hopefully one day I have improved enough to reach his level on my glass-cannon melee Warrior.

Vayne.8563:

Scrambles.2604:

anytime a tool is suggested to extend the ability of current features, you have:

a group that cries “doom” and the fostering of elitism. Most of their evidence lies in fantastic hypotheticals— “DPS meters will prevent me from joining groups and make me play a way i dont want”

And another group that recognizes the positive aspects, while downplaying the negative effects the tools will have on the community based.

yet, you never really from these mystical Elitists that are trying to ruin the game for everyone. I’m starting to believe they don’t exist, or simply don’t have the power or control over the game that some people would lead you to believe.

Most mystical elitists, as you put it, don’t consider themselves elitists. They think they’re perfectly fine. If you went and put up a thread targeting bigots, you wouldn’t expect people to put up their hands. Are you suggesting bigotry doesn’t exist?

What we traditionally think of as “elitists” comes from games, like WoW, where to complete certain content, you needed a certain level of gear as well. No matter how good you were at your class, you still need a dash of purple in your inventory to actually complete and gain access to more dungeons.

However, in GW2, the only time your gear is contingent on completing content is when a group is trying to run as efficiently as possible. The goal isn’t to complete the dungeon, because that is already going to happen—the goal is to complete it the fastest, best way possible. So, when you barred entry to a dunegon based on gear in GW2, it is only because your trying to compete at a level where people are optimizing their experience, and have much higher standards for the level of play they’re looking for.

But no one is forcing you to optimize your play in Gw2. You can complete AC with a full zerker group, or you can do it with a group of lvl 35s. It’s not a matter of succeeding or not, it’s how well you succeed.

It is because of these reasons that i believe elitists dont have the same level of influence on regular play that they did in WoW. In WoW, you were denied groups based on your crappy gear becasue of the very real possiblity you wouldn’t be able to compete at that level.

In GW2, you denied groups based on crappy gear because you tried to join a group where participation is contingent on the gear you have. That or the party leader did a crappy job advertising for the group.

It is for these reasons that i do not believe an “elitist” mentality will prevail at the same level it did in WoW, which is what everyone is afraid will happen in GW2. It is the level and substance of the content that produces this mentality, not the tools available to the players.

I would advise you to take a look at SWTOR for a closer analog to GW2. The dungeon (flashpoint) content is just as accessible as it is in GW2, the standards for success are much lower, AND the game has /inspect features as well as DPS parsing. Yet, last time i played, i don’t recall “elitists” forcing me to play a certain way.

Vayne.8563:

Most mystical elitists, as you put it, don’t consider themselves elitists. They think they’re perfectly fine. If you went and put up a thread targeting bigots, you wouldn’t expect people to put up their hands. Are you suggesting bigotry doesn’t exist?

Wha- Really? Your analogies are not helping here.

penatbater.4710:

My grenades give vulnerabilities on hit. Should a percentage of the warrior’s 100b damage be attributed to me instead since I gave him 3-5-10% extra incoming damage?

I want to know where on the DPS meter it shows me dropping Shadow Refuge to rez a downed zerk warrior.

Phoenix.7845:

Tolmos.8395:

Take Engineer. Besides grenades, they don’t even have a second pure DPS build.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/engineer/Non-grenade-PvE-builds/2144688

I stand corrected, though 2 DPS builds is hardly a long list of options :-\

We’d start getting pidgeon holed into certain playstyles, and I’m not a fan of that.

As much as I despise the idea- they really shouldn’t bring DPS meters without adding Trinity to the game. I can’t see them having one without the other. At least then it would create the understanding that not every class or build needs big numbers to contribute.

Sooo many players just wishing GW2 to be “Hey, a swung a sword. I swung a word again”
Oh, I didn’t realize it was just the AIR.

Some people want to be good at what do they do, including gaming, some people just want to have fun with their friends and some people just want to be carried through the content by other people.
God forbid someone notices they are slacking. The END OF DAYS! Kill all ELITISTS!

I do not see any other reason for not wanting stats in game, but being afraid to get caught slacking.
By stats I mean DPS, tanking,healing uptime.

Tolmos.8395:

Phoenix.7845:

Tolmos.8395:

Take Engineer. Besides grenades, they don’t even have a second pure DPS build.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/engineer/Non-grenade-PvE-builds/2144688

I stand corrected, though 2 DPS builds is hardly a long list of options :-\

We’d start getting pidgeon holed into certain playstyles, and I’m not a fan of that.

As much as I despise the idea- they really shouldn’t bring DPS meters without adding Trinity to the game. I can’t see them having one without the other. At least then it would create the understanding that not every class or build needs big numbers to contribute.

And that’s a fault of the DPS meter? People already know that Grenades is the most viable option of the Engineer. That’s without a DPS meter. A meter would literally just show by exact numbers ho much better it is.

It’s not a fault of the DPS meter that some builds are just not viable. It’s a fault of the devs. They have yet to bring up certain weapons and traits up to par. Yes, they are working on it. But at the moment, they just aren’t good enough. Bear in mind this is all known to be true and this is without meters. Everybody knows what brings more DPS for the most part. You don’t need a meter to figure out if you’re killing something a lot slower or not. But having a meter would just help you gauge what kind of loss or gain you’re getting from traits, attributes, sigils, etc. It’s literally just a way of getting exact details.