Guild Wars 2

Oldbugga.7029:

If you don’t like the group then you leave it. What is so hard about that. It is you who are displeased then you are the issue…not them…you leave. simple. Don’t make up some half kitten d excuse to try and impose some self anointed superiority on their enjoyment…just move on to your equals. You are the issue, you have the problem…not them.

The group?

Usually in 5 man situations it’s an individual underperforming ;-)

Better yet, in addition to damage meters, institute a vote kick feature. Let the group decide! You know what, barring someone acting like a jerk, I bet the low DPS is removed almost every time.

Also, what’s up with all your “kittens”? Calm down.

Vayne.8563:

Sarabande.8260:

@ Vayne (and maybe this will help you too, Oldbuga, or whatever): Again it’s not always about competition, it also has to do with not being fair having to carry an underperformer hiding amongst people who actually care enough to play the game with a reasonable level of skill in a group setting (I stated this earlier). If you wanna teach them, fine – that’s really good, but a lot of people really couldn’t care less. Those people, the ones who couldn’t care less, /kick; Leachers, /kick; straight up bad players who just don’t get it, /kick

Sure competition has something to do with it, but so does personal improvement within a game. I know, I know many here have to worry about their Malibu mansions, supermodel wife and their agent who just blew a $27 million deal – so since they “have a life” setting aside 30 minutes or an hour to watch a youtube video or read a guide on their class so they may improve in a game focused on collective effort is too much. They rock “IRL” so all is excused.

See, we speak so often of majorities, but you know what – if Anet actually catered more to the competitive nature inherent in gamers (especially MMO gamers), there would be a lot less ghost town servers in this game. Hell, the probably would have added some. In other words, the game would be doing a lot better.

MMO Gamers who aren’t competitive? That’s almost like an oxymoron. And what do we get from that, a game such as this this is only afloat due to the dearth of MMOs on the market.

You talk about fair. What is fair. Different people have different levels of skill and talent. I’m never going to have the reflexes I had when I was 20. It’s not going to happen. That was more than 30 years ago. Is that fair? Maybe everyone should exclude me because I can’t possibly keep up with kids who can just bang away for hours and do it all perfectly.

Some people have physical or even mental handicaps. They didn’t ask for them. Is that fair?

I get it. Everyone who can’t be good at a game because of a genetic deficiency, or a disability, or even something as simple as insomnia should be barred from all groups because someone says carrying them is unfair.

They have to live their entire lives with something unfair and maybe, just maybe they escape into a game world to get away from the disability. Who am I to tell them that they’re not pulling their weight in a game.

This is a hobby for a lot of people. We have or have had careers. This isn’t serious business. It’s a form of recreation.

By your reckoning, only the best of the best should be allowed to play, because it’s unfair that you have to carry them.

Well, to be honest, I’ve carried more than my share of people who couldn’t do it through content they never thought they could get through…and it makes me proud that I did.

No one asks to be less talented than another person.

Well whatever the reason may be for their underperformance it’s not fair to kitten a group. They are old, they are mentally challenged, they lost 2 fingers in Iraq; they are poor and their computer only runs the game at 10 fps… whatever the case may be is none of my concern. You appeal to passion here and it ain’t gonna work on me. If one have such problems don’t put yourself into a group situation where your underperformance holds the group back. Go solo or play another game.

So is it still unfair if Mr. Wounded Combat Vet cannot pull his weight and holds back the group? Yes!

Oldbugga.7029:

Mate, read your own posts…….

I wrote them, I know what they say. How about you read them. Here, have the Cliffnotes, “mate.”

Sarabande.8260:

The group?

Usually in 5 man situations it’s an individual underperforming ;-)

Sarabande.8260:

Vayne.8563:

Sarabande.8260:

@ Vayne (and maybe this will help you too, Oldbuga, or whatever): Again it’s not always about competition, it also has to do with not being fair having to carry an underperformer hiding amongst people who actually care enough to play the game with a reasonable level of skill in a group setting (I stated this earlier). If you wanna teach them, fine – that’s really good, but a lot of people really couldn’t care less. Those people, the ones who couldn’t care less, /kick; Leachers, /kick; straight up bad players who just don’t get it, /kick

Sure competition has something to do with it, but so does personal improvement within a game. I know, I know many here have to worry about their Malibu mansions, supermodel wife and their agent who just blew a $27 million deal – so since they “have a life” setting aside 30 minutes or an hour to watch a youtube video or read a guide on their class so they may improve in a game focused on collective effort is too much. They rock “IRL” so all is excused.

See, we speak so often of majorities, but you know what – if Anet actually catered more to the competitive nature inherent in gamers (especially MMO gamers), there would be a lot less ghost town servers in this game. Hell, the probably would have added some. In other words, the game would be doing a lot better.

MMO Gamers who aren’t competitive? That’s almost like an oxymoron. And what do we get from that, a game such as this this is only afloat due to the dearth of MMOs on the market.

You talk about fair. What is fair. Different people have different levels of skill and talent. I’m never going to have the reflexes I had when I was 20. It’s not going to happen. That was more than 30 years ago. Is that fair? Maybe everyone should exclude me because I can’t possibly keep up with kids who can just bang away for hours and do it all perfectly.

Some people have physical or even mental handicaps. They didn’t ask for them. Is that fair?

I get it. Everyone who can’t be good at a game because of a genetic deficiency, or a disability, or even something as simple as insomnia should be barred from all groups because someone says carrying them is unfair.

They have to live their entire lives with something unfair and maybe, just maybe they escape into a game world to get away from the disability. Who am I to tell them that they’re not pulling their weight in a game.

This is a hobby for a lot of people. We have or have had careers. This isn’t serious business. It’s a form of recreation.

By your reckoning, only the best of the best should be allowed to play, because it’s unfair that you have to carry them.

Well, to be honest, I’ve carried more than my share of people who couldn’t do it through content they never thought they could get through…and it makes me proud that I did.

No one asks to be less talented than another person.

Well whatever the reason may be for their underperformance it’s not fair to kitten a group. They are old, they are mentally challenged, they lost 2 fingers in Iraq; they are poor and their computer only runs the game at 10 fps… whatever the case may be is none of my concern. You appeal to passion here and it ain’t gonna work on me. If one have such problems don’t put yourself into a group situation where your underperformance holds the group back. Go solo or play another game.

So is it still unfair if Mr. Wounded Combat Vet cannot pull his weight and holds back the group? Yes!

Nope, it’s unfair to those people that some people share your attitude. I’m not trying to appeal to your passion. I’m not trying to appeal to anything. I’m stating that in my opinion. people who have your opinion are being unfair to others less talented.

I’ve always believed those who are blessed with talent should be gracious and grateful. Naturally not everyone shares that belief.

I don’t like going DPS, but other builds with my War feel lacking something. And why the hell should i try to tank, if 1/2 boss skills ONESHOT you in this game? And even flaming balls(CoFp1) and other ambiental danger(falling i.e.) kill you SO easy?
Bosses doesn’t react in a realistic way to damage they take!!! Damage won’t make them use powerful attacks, run away, or heal…unless they’re scripted to do that!
And to use all these scripts to cover the lame AI, and the poor combat (dodge-DPS-dodge-WIN) they gave Bosses tons of HP = players went DPS or gtfo.
(and in lots of cases bugged them…tnx for the 4-hours TA with no loot at the end, or for the temples where NPCs don’t spawn…again)

Nooooooooooooo. . .

I love the way it is; You build your character the way you want, without min/maxing (unless you want to). I think a DPS meter would provoke a more elitist community that’s a lot more hostile to fun/niche builds, or just anything but the best in general.

Never, ever support this, please.

Keep it the way it is. I don’t need some digital meter that scores my progress vs. others. I know I bring a lot to the group when I play with my FT/EG-Engi (i.e.) whenever we’ve somewhat less experienced players with us.

Don’t know if anyone mentioned it since i didn’t care to go thru 6 pages of posts but fact is Anet is trying to clean up UI and make game even more visual not clogged with various parameters and bars.

DPS meter would only throw more garbage on screen and gw2 combat being actiony as it is needs all your atention on action and not watching dps meters and what not. I also think that dps meters are made for games like wow where you have time to watch zillion bars.
This is action combat rpg not a plane flight simulator.

Vayne.8563:

Nope, it’s unfair to those people that some people share your attitude. I’m not trying to appeal to your passion. I’m not trying to appeal to anything. I’m stating that in my opinion. people who have your opinion are being unfair to others less talented.

I’ve always believed those who are blessed with talent should be gracious and grateful. Naturally not everyone shares that belief.

Well in my defense I am fairly accomplished classical guitarist (been playing since I was 5), and I give lessons every other weekend – for free. I make a living as a history teacher, and I tutor, again free of charge. ;-)

However, I stand by what I said – if one seeks to be carried, solo content is one kick away. Really, I think the less talented people, or the folks with issues impacting their playing ability are the inconsiderate ones. Since this is going into “rl” stuff (I put that in quotes as if games aren’t RL), it’s like someone on a team, say a basketball team. If that person is holding back the team, well… there’s the bench. >>>>

If I broke my hand, I wouldn’t try to run dungeons with people, because I know I wouldn’t contribute worth a hell. It would be very inconsiderate of me to do so.

I hate leeching off people, and if I don’t have the physical ability or talent to do something I am not just going to impose my poor performance on a group because I want to be there. That’s, imo, the very definition of being inconsiderate/unfair.

Sarabande.8260:

Vayne.8563:

Nope, it’s unfair to those people that some people share your attitude. I’m not trying to appeal to your passion. I’m not trying to appeal to anything. I’m stating that in my opinion. people who have your opinion are being unfair to others less talented.

I’ve always believed those who are blessed with talent should be gracious and grateful. Naturally not everyone shares that belief.

Well in my defense I am fairly accomplished classical guitarist (been playing since I was 5), and I give lessons every other weekend – for free. I make a living as a history teacher, and I tutor, again free of charge. ;-)

However, I stand by what I said – if one seeks to be carried, solo content is one kick away. Really, I think the less talented people, or the folks with issues impacting their playing ability are the inconsiderate ones. Since this is going into “rl” stuff (I put that in quotes as if games aren’t RL), it’s like someone on a team, say a basketball team. If that person is holding back the team, well… there’s the bench. >>>>

If I broke my hand, I wouldn’t try to run dungeons with people, because I know I wouldn’t contribute worth a hell. It would be very inconsiderate of me to do so.

I hate leeching off people, and if I don’t have the physical ability or talent to do something I am not just going to impose my poor performance on a group because I want to be there. That’s, imo, the very definition of being inconsiderate/unfair.

I’m sorry I’m going to have to leave this conversation…it’s not worth the infraction and that’s surely what would happen if I continue it.

Have a good one.

This always gets a heated debate as we are a lot of different people with a few different playstyles. Best advice that I can give is to not try to convince eachother of your attitude, but appreciate that we have different ones. Try to find likeminded players and play together with them.

In that sense it is not fair for 4 hardcore gamers having to carry a what they could call “an underperformer”. But it is also not fair for 4 casual gamers having to take the comments of 1 hardcore gamer when doing a dungeon together or having to rush after him. The first view is more accepted than the 2nd one, but they are really the same. Both type of players are right.

Now for DPS meters, in the end they do more harm then good. They tend to segregate the community more than bringing it together (as already shown by this discussion). I understand there are people who want to theorycraft, for that personal meters would be good. It should not be used as a tool to pass judgements on others, as noone is wrong by enjoying a game the way they want to.

And in my opinion if you are hardcore, you can see who is not pulling their weight. You can see who is on the floor more often, has difficulty getting out of aoe, stays in water attunement when everyone is full health etc. Also if you are more laid back and not going for only highest DPS, you can see who cares or not. You can see who has a likeminded attitude as yourself and who has not, but lets not judge. Try to find and play with players who have a similar attitude so that we can enjoy the game alongside eachother.

Hello everyone

We want to remind you to keep this conversation constructive and healthy. Thank you for your understanding.

Vayne.8563:

Sarabande.8260:

Vayne.8563:

Nope, it’s unfair to those people that some people share your attitude. I’m not trying to appeal to your passion. I’m not trying to appeal to anything. I’m stating that in my opinion. people who have your opinion are being unfair to others less talented.

I’ve always believed those who are blessed with talent should be gracious and grateful. Naturally not everyone shares that belief.

Well in my defense I am fairly accomplished classical guitarist (been playing since I was 5), and I give lessons every other weekend – for free. I make a living as a history teacher, and I tutor, again free of charge. ;-)

However, I stand by what I said – if one seeks to be carried, solo content is one kick away. Really, I think the less talented people, or the folks with issues impacting their playing ability are the inconsiderate ones. Since this is going into “rl” stuff (I put that in quotes as if games aren’t RL), it’s like someone on a team, say a basketball team. If that person is holding back the team, well… there’s the bench. >>>>

If I broke my hand, I wouldn’t try to run dungeons with people, because I know I wouldn’t contribute worth a hell. It would be very inconsiderate of me to do so.

I hate leeching off people, and if I don’t have the physical ability or talent to do something I am not just going to impose my poor performance on a group because I want to be there. That’s, imo, the very definition of being inconsiderate/unfair.

I’m sorry I’m going to have to leave this conversation…it’s not worth the infraction and that’s surely what would happen if I continue it.

Have a good one.

Well collect yourself and have the conversation without getting infracted. What did I say that offended you so?

If one cannot perform for whatever reason it is inconsiderate/unfair to hold a group back. This is true in GW2 and beyond.

Sarabande.8260:

If one cannot perform for whatever reason it is inconsiderate/unfair to hold a group back. This is true in GW2 and beyond.

See, this is where your argument is flawed. You use this argument believing everyone joins a group for the most efficient run. This is not the case. Some do, others prefer a more laid back approach like myself. When I am in a group with more hardcore players I try to adapt or leave. But when you are in a group with more casual/laid back players, you should try to adapt or leave. Your way of gaming is not better or worse than our way of gaming.

OP: I have one sentence for you.

This is not WoW

Thanks for reading.

Sarabande.8260:

Vayne.8563:

Sarabande.8260:

Vayne.8563:

Nope, it’s unfair to those people that some people share your attitude. I’m not trying to appeal to your passion. I’m not trying to appeal to anything. I’m stating that in my opinion. people who have your opinion are being unfair to others less talented.

I’ve always believed those who are blessed with talent should be gracious and grateful. Naturally not everyone shares that belief.

Well in my defense I am fairly accomplished classical guitarist (been playing since I was 5), and I give lessons every other weekend – for free. I make a living as a history teacher, and I tutor, again free of charge. ;-)

However, I stand by what I said – if one seeks to be carried, solo content is one kick away. Really, I think the less talented people, or the folks with issues impacting their playing ability are the inconsiderate ones. Since this is going into “rl” stuff (I put that in quotes as if games aren’t RL), it’s like someone on a team, say a basketball team. If that person is holding back the team, well… there’s the bench. >>>>

If I broke my hand, I wouldn’t try to run dungeons with people, because I know I wouldn’t contribute worth a hell. It would be very inconsiderate of me to do so.

I hate leeching off people, and if I don’t have the physical ability or talent to do something I am not just going to impose my poor performance on a group because I want to be there. That’s, imo, the very definition of being inconsiderate/unfair.

I’m sorry I’m going to have to leave this conversation…it’s not worth the infraction and that’s surely what would happen if I continue it.

Have a good one.

Well collect yourself and have the conversation without getting infracted. What did I say that offended you so?

If one cannot perform for whatever reason it is inconsiderate/unfair to hold a group back. This is true in GW2 and beyond.

Sorry mate, but it’s midnight here. I’ve made my point, you’ve made yours and those points are irreconcilable. You’re not going to change your mind and I’m not going to change mine.

I just feel that having a DPS meter would perpetuate the type of thought process you bring to the table, and I’m relatively sure it’s precisely the type of mindset Anet tried to get away from. I could be wrong of course, but I’d bet on that.

Anyway I’m off to bed. G’night.

I can’t believe this thread made it this far…

A DPS meter for PvE? Seriously?

If you’re using the meter to cull the weak from your pug dungeons you should have joined a dungeon guild or speed clear guild by now. There are quite a few of them. But then again, maybe there is a reason certain people are not in one of those guilds already?

There are plenty of fights that are ‘DPS checks’ in this game. Solo them and time yourself.

A meter for PvE in this game is actually quite laughable. Everywhere it would matter is scripted. The players that are truly elite already know they are. They don’t need a meter.

No meter will ever show how much damage that was avoided by a well timed block, perfect dodge timing, blind spam, might stacked, weakness applied, vulnerablity stacked, the double effect of damage avoided and caused by reflects etc.

All a meter in this game would accomplish is who is the weak pug in a stack & burst situation. Honestly I can already tell who the weak link is in most dungeons / fractals by the time the party gets to the first big fight be it large groups of trash or a mini boss.

Esya.3427:

Sarabande.8260:

If one cannot perform for whatever reason it is inconsiderate/unfair to hold a group back. This is true in GW2 and beyond.

See, this is where your argument is flawed. You use this argument believing everyone joins a group for the most efficient run. This is not the case. Some do, others prefer a more laid back approach like myself. When I am in a group with more hardcore players I try to adapt or leave. But when you are in a group with more casual/laid back players, you should try to adapt or leave. Your way of gaming is not better or worse than our way of gaming.

except that it is your argument that is flawed not his. You say you want to play casually and laid back. I would argue that this is not what you want at all. You say it is but it isn’t.

There is nothing currently in the game stopping you from getting a group together of all casual laid back people and having all the fun you want. Your method of playing isn’t restricted. However if I want efficient skilled players I have no method of finding them. If the majority of the group is casual laid back people then they won’t care about the DPS meter and they won’t have enough votes to kick you out.

A DPS meter changes nothing for you. You can still find people who are casual and laid back and group with them. However now I would be able to also find like minded players and we could hold ourselves to the standard we want for our group. It in no way effects you since as you stated you want to play with laid back people.

But that’s not really what you want is it? You want skilled efficient players to carry you and not kick you do to your subpar performance. You pretend to be an advocate for “fairness” and what is “right”, but really you just want to impose your playstyle on everyone and forbid anyone from playing in a way that you deem “wrong”.

DPS meter for lazy, stupid players…
Why?
Because damage done-taken is 100% explained here http://wiki.guildwars2.com
so you can count the min, max, average damage done for every weapon-skill then divide it by skill time and you get DPS

you are welcome

A DPS meters others can see would be used by bad players as an excuse to be even worse, kicking those who favor other things.
A DPS meter only individual players can see would confuse neophytes. As you can’t measure control and support, new players will merely see damage and defense, and that’s it.

One of my elementalists has soldier gear, and is 30/0/20/20/0. That’s in no way optimal for damage. But do you know how many times I was the last one standing, finished a boss and revived the rest? I don’t. I never counted. I don’t have such a good memory for that.
And I have a guardian with freaking cleric stats, on my own, it takes me about 15 seconds to kill just a single orrian in Cursed Shore, I have to gather them and kill them together in at least groups of 6-7 to save time. Do you know how many times I babysat pugs through a dungeon, keeping them alive with support and control (mace+shield, staff) to compensate for their silly greatsword berserker builds and their habit or standing still all the time? How do you measure that?

In GW1 there was once the master of damage. A guy you could visit to see how much damage you could do per second with a build. But just that. You had to actively know about the guy, get there, and take your time to test your build there. And that worked more or less fine.
But in GW2, there’s no “holy trinity” like in GW1. An elementalist, assassin or warrior could focus on spiking enemies down, confident that they’ll have a spike healer behind, keeping them alive.

In GW2 the one that should worry the most about keeping you alive is yourself. One can’t rely on allies healing them and reviving them all the time. Builds are no longer a mere calculation, but they are tested more organically. If you get downed often, you add more survivability. If you do fine, you can focus more on damage.

ZudetGambeous.9573:

Esya.3427:

Sarabande.8260:

If one cannot perform for whatever reason it is inconsiderate/unfair to hold a group back. This is true in GW2 and beyond.

See, this is where your argument is flawed. You use this argument believing everyone joins a group for the most efficient run. This is not the case. Some do, others prefer a more laid back approach like myself. When I am in a group with more hardcore players I try to adapt or leave. But when you are in a group with more casual/laid back players, you should try to adapt or leave. Your way of gaming is not better or worse than our way of gaming.

except that it is your argument that is flawed not his. You say you want to play casually and laid back. I would argue that this is not what you want at all. You say it is but it isn’t.

There is nothing currently in the game stopping you from getting a group together of all casual laid back people and having all the fun you want. Your method of playing isn’t restricted. However if I want efficient skilled players I have no method of finding them. If the majority of the group is casual laid back people then they won’t care about the DPS meter and they won’t have enough votes to kick you out.

A DPS meter changes nothing for you. You can still find people who are casual and laid back and group with them. However now I would be able to also find like minded players and we could hold ourselves to the standard we want for our group. It in no way effects you since as you stated you want to play with laid back people.

But that’s not really what you want is it? You want skilled efficient players to carry you and not kick you do to your subpar performance. You pretend to be an advocate for “fairness” and what is “right”, but really you just want to impose your playstyle on everyone and forbid anyone from playing in a way that you deem “wrong”.

I know what I want and it is a laid back relaxed way of gaming. Not rushing and aiming for highest DPS. You do not have to tell me what I want, as you would not know. That you cannot imagine that people prefer this, does not mean that we do not want it.

You have as many ways to find people that like your gaming style as have I. By asking you will find out. We do not know either before joining a dungeon too, unless people give that kind of info in their LFG beforehand or by asking them.

Also you do not know if my performance is sub-par. We never played together. Just because there are people who want a relaxed gaming session, does not mean their skills or performance is sub-par or that they need to be carried. I carried way more people than who carried me, if I ever was.

And I never said that a certain way of gaming was wrong. I used to be more hardcore in the past and enjoyed it then. As I said, different people, different likes, play with those who have a similar preferance.

So according to you I am judgemental and have a sub-par performance, just because I suggest that likeminded players should play together and I prefer a more laid back approach? But according to the last paragraph of your quote it is you who judges me without knowing me at all.

Sarabande.8260:

Even if I was playing alone I would want a meter. Unlike lower quality players, I like to know I am at peak performance, or when someone else is as well. That way I can associate with people I know to be good players, and not “skrubz.”

Lower quality players.. seriously.

Barring that, by and large, MMOs are about defeating content as a group. If someone doe not care enough about their performance to the point that it holds up the group, they deserve to be kicked and relaced by a good player. If they can’t put up worthy numbers in a group setting (a setting that is a cornerstone of MMOs), then I suggest a different sort of game. MMOs are, by nature, competitive.

I’ll just go with no. Nowhere in Massive Multiplayer Online Roleplaying Game does it say that those games are about group combat content. There’s roleplaying, crafting, exploring with other people, organizing events, playing mini-games. MMOs are not, by nature, competitive. You play them that way, glad you’re having fun! There are other play styles that fall under the MMORPG tag.

Why would Anet wanna do that? I guess you have a good point. It’s sad who gaming companies have to cater to nowadays. Protect their little feelings because they can’t produce, I understand….

Some people produce enough irl and don’t care about producing ing. Actually, the exact opposite.

I want to play to have fun, with people who are nice and are having fun themselves. Since you’re so keen on a DPS meter, to “weed out” “lower quality players”… maybe we should add a meter that helps weed out people who don’t meet certain tolerance and fun requirements? It might actually be less tricky than gauging your contribute to a party when you spent the whole fight kiting the second boss whilst the rest dps’ed down the first one. Or about how you threw a heal to that party member that was about to go down just in time for him to get away. Or about how you wasted all your interrupts on meaningless attacks but used 10 of them vs the player who kept it for that one special attack that would have hit like a truck. :]

Sarcasm notwithstanding, please TRY to understand other people’s POVs, as well. There are a lot of games with DPS meters out there (I even play one) and we’ve all seen what it does to a community. It is not something you add to a game one year after its launch.

Tolmos.8395:

As long as the DPS meter is for the player alone, and not their party, I’m all for it.

I’ll agree to this. Im against a DPS meter being shared party wide. And oh I’ll be so PO’d when groups will be posting in their LFG message ‘must ping DPS after each fight’ or something like that.

I just don’t think a DPS meter is right for GW2.

There are a lot of things that go along with a traditional MMO, where I am OK with their existence in those MMOs, but would not work in GW2.
-Gear treadmills/carrots
-raiding
-dps meters
-pure tanks/healers

Sarabande.8260:

Vayne.8563:

Sarabande.8260:

Vayne.8563:

Nope, it’s unfair to those people that some people share your attitude. I’m not trying to appeal to your passion. I’m not trying to appeal to anything. I’m stating that in my opinion. people who have your opinion are being unfair to others less talented.

I’ve always believed those who are blessed with talent should be gracious and grateful. Naturally not everyone shares that belief.

Well in my defense I am fairly accomplished classical guitarist (been playing since I was 5), and I give lessons every other weekend – for free. I make a living as a history teacher, and I tutor, again free of charge. ;-)

However, I stand by what I said – if one seeks to be carried, solo content is one kick away. Really, I think the less talented people, or the folks with issues impacting their playing ability are the inconsiderate ones. Since this is going into “rl” stuff (I put that in quotes as if games aren’t RL), it’s like someone on a team, say a basketball team. If that person is holding back the team, well… there’s the bench. >>>>

If I broke my hand, I wouldn’t try to run dungeons with people, because I know I wouldn’t contribute worth a hell. It would be very inconsiderate of me to do so.

I hate leeching off people, and if I don’t have the physical ability or talent to do something I am not just going to impose my poor performance on a group because I want to be there. That’s, imo, the very definition of being inconsiderate/unfair.

I’m sorry I’m going to have to leave this conversation…it’s not worth the infraction and that’s surely what would happen if I continue it.

Have a good one.

Well collect yourself and have the conversation without getting infracted. What did I say that offended you so?

If one cannot perform for whatever reason it is inconsiderate/unfair to hold a group back. This is true in GW2 and beyond.

What probably offended him is you’ve essentially said, “those who are afflicted with a disability, do not deserve to enjoy themselves”. It is a disgusting, vile way of thought. This game was marketed to everyone, not just the elite, so “underperformers” have just as much right to all content in this game as “good players”. If you don’t like it, you best move on.

Dual.8953:

Sarabande.8260:

Vayne.8563:

Sarabande.8260:

Vayne.8563:

Nope, it’s unfair to those people that some people share your attitude. I’m not trying to appeal to your passion. I’m not trying to appeal to anything. I’m stating that in my opinion. people who have your opinion are being unfair to others less talented.

I’ve always believed those who are blessed with talent should be gracious and grateful. Naturally not everyone shares that belief.

Well in my defense I am fairly accomplished classical guitarist (been playing since I was 5), and I give lessons every other weekend – for free. I make a living as a history teacher, and I tutor, again free of charge. ;-)

However, I stand by what I said – if one seeks to be carried, solo content is one kick away. Really, I think the less talented people, or the folks with issues impacting their playing ability are the inconsiderate ones. Since this is going into “rl” stuff (I put that in quotes as if games aren’t RL), it’s like someone on a team, say a basketball team. If that person is holding back the team, well… there’s the bench. >>>>

If I broke my hand, I wouldn’t try to run dungeons with people, because I know I wouldn’t contribute worth a hell. It would be very inconsiderate of me to do so.

I hate leeching off people, and if I don’t have the physical ability or talent to do something I am not just going to impose my poor performance on a group because I want to be there. That’s, imo, the very definition of being inconsiderate/unfair.

I’m sorry I’m going to have to leave this conversation…it’s not worth the infraction and that’s surely what would happen if I continue it.

Have a good one.

Well collect yourself and have the conversation without getting infracted. What did I say that offended you so?

If one cannot perform for whatever reason it is inconsiderate/unfair to hold a group back. This is true in GW2 and beyond.

What probably offended him is you’ve essentially said, “those who are afflicted with a disability, do not deserve to enjoy themselves”. It is a disgusting, vile way of thought. This game was marketed to everyone, not just the elite, so “underperformers” have just as much right to all content in this game as “good players”. If you don’t like it, you best move on.

I care for a disabled person full time. I know what her life is like. People who are healthy and can do all sorts of stuff in life are complaining that someone in their party might be holding them back.

In ten years, when those who complain have moved onto another game, or spend less time gaming, she’ll still be disabled.

So yes, you’ve hit the nail on the head.

Yenn.9185:

The whole “play how you want” doesn’t just apply to you. It applies to elitist as well. If the casual (lack of better word) can play with pugs, why can’t the elitist play with whoever they chose to? Double standards.

They don’t want to, since by definition they are elitists and they think they are better than others, and WANT to be segregated and play with the so-called “elite.” Thus they should play with like-minded players rather than complain about lacking a DPS meter “tool” which would inevitably multiply the real attitude tools, such as seen here and many other threads.

In short, the elitist doesn’t want to PUG because he thinks he’s better than the “average” PUG-therefore, he/she shouldn’t complain and just play with so-called superior players to have “fun”, rather than complain forever about PUGs or lack of DPS meters. He/she is still free to play the way he/she wants, but he/she has chosen that he/she doesn’t want to play with PUGs, due to ill-placed feelings of superiority.

(Note that not all speedrunners are jerks, BTW, nor have I ever claimed as much; but the bad attitude of a few of them is a cancer that can make other players-which they would dare call “bad” without knowing them because they are not part of their “elite” strata-even stop playing the game, especially given the seal of approval of an official ANet given DPS meter. It would confirm that ANet agrees that DPS is the one way to play GW2, which they have never ever stated, as popular as that opinion is with some that claim that GW2 is “DPS-only” role by virtue of not employing a trinity combat system.)

No to DPS meters. In fact, lets get rid of the combat log too. Also, get rid of the floating text for damage. Better yet, remove all info about my spells so i can judge them based on how creative they are named and how cool they look.

Who cares about feedback on their performance, it’s just a game that i could never get invested in to the point where i care about my skills getting better. I just want to look at shiny colors. I mean if it’s dead i won right? Who cares how it got dead, or how i can make it dead better in the future.

Sarabande.8260:

Vayne.8563:

Nope, it’s unfair to those people that some people share your attitude. I’m not trying to appeal to your passion. I’m not trying to appeal to anything. I’m stating that in my opinion. people who have your opinion are being unfair to others less talented.

I’ve always believed those who are blessed with talent should be gracious and grateful. Naturally not everyone shares that belief.

Well in my defense I am fairly accomplished classical guitarist (been playing since I was 5), and I give lessons every other weekend – for free. I make a living as a history teacher, and I tutor, again free of charge. ;-)

However, I stand by what I said – if one seeks to be carried, solo content is one kick away. Really, I think the less talented people, or the folks with issues impacting their playing ability are the inconsiderate ones. Since this is going into “rl” stuff (I put that in quotes as if games aren’t RL), it’s like someone on a team, say a basketball team. If that person is holding back the team, well… there’s the bench. >>>>

If I broke my hand, I wouldn’t try to run dungeons with people, because I know I wouldn’t contribute worth a hell. It would be very inconsiderate of me to do so.

I hate leeching off people, and if I don’t have the physical ability or talent to do something I am not just going to impose my poor performance on a group because I want to be there. That’s, imo, the very definition of being inconsiderate/unfair.

I love classical guitar (used to play poorly many years ago, as I didn’t continue) and trained as a violinist, but your posts should all be reviewed and infracted accordingly. If anything, a person like you should know better than being a bigot towards others (in-game or real-life, it doesn’t matter to me), given that guitar isn’t given that much of a prominence on the concert hall-I think it should be more featured myself.

Would it be fair to say that classical guitar should not be featured at all at the concert hall since it will never be as productive as the ubiquitous symphonic concert? Clearly classical guitar recitals will never be as “productive” as other ensembles, at least not in our current classical music atmosphere.

(This is why I cannot be elitist in game-I hate elitism in real-life and cannot separate my values from what I do in fantasy worlds. Even in music, I oppose competitiveness and a dog-eat-dog attitude, as it’s not what it’s all about.)

And yes, your posts don’t necessarily come across as “I am mean competitor that doesn’t care about feelings but more about productivity!” (which BTW, is still rather disturbing, because people’s feelings are important even if you are not that type of person) but more like a “true-bred” bigot, which I suppose is not your intention (or at least I very much hope so.)

I mean no personal hate, though I do reject and oppose your apparent hate of “the weak” that “can’t compete.”

Dual.8953:

Sarabande.8260:

Vayne.8563:

Sarabande.8260:

Vayne.8563:

Nope, it’s unfair to those people that some people share your attitude. I’m not trying to appeal to your passion. I’m not trying to appeal to anything. I’m stating that in my opinion. people who have your opinion are being unfair to others less talented.

I’ve always believed those who are blessed with talent should be gracious and grateful. Naturally not everyone shares that belief.

Well in my defense I am fairly accomplished classical guitarist (been playing since I was 5), and I give lessons every other weekend – for free. I make a living as a history teacher, and I tutor, again free of charge. ;-)

However, I stand by what I said – if one seeks to be carried, solo content is one kick away. Really, I think the less talented people, or the folks with issues impacting their playing ability are the inconsiderate ones. Since this is going into “rl” stuff (I put that in quotes as if games aren’t RL), it’s like someone on a team, say a basketball team. If that person is holding back the team, well… there’s the bench. >>>>

If I broke my hand, I wouldn’t try to run dungeons with people, because I know I wouldn’t contribute worth a hell. It would be very inconsiderate of me to do so.

I hate leeching off people, and if I don’t have the physical ability or talent to do something I am not just going to impose my poor performance on a group because I want to be there. That’s, imo, the very definition of being inconsiderate/unfair.

I’m sorry I’m going to have to leave this conversation…it’s not worth the infraction and that’s surely what would happen if I continue it.

Have a good one.

Well collect yourself and have the conversation without getting infracted. What did I say that offended you so?

If one cannot perform for whatever reason it is inconsiderate/unfair to hold a group back. This is true in GW2 and beyond.

What probably offended him is you’ve essentially said, “those who are afflicted with a disability, do not deserve to enjoy themselves”. It is a disgusting, vile way of thought. This game was marketed to everyone, not just the elite, so “underperformers” have just as much right to all content in this game as “good players”. If you don’t like it, you best move on.

Except that the only one who said that is you.

It is unfair for someone to hold back a group. It just is what it is. No one is saying that you aren’t allowed to group with them. If you knowingly take them along that is great and fine and good for you. But it isn’t fair to the other people who wanted to complete the dungeon. Maybe they only have a limited play time and only have 30 minutes to complete the dungeon. Is it fair that they can’t complete the dungeon because someone is holding the group back?

You are trying to make the under-performers all victims, while it is just as likely that the more skilled players are the victims.

The flaw/problem is that his line of thinking still allows for groups of slower less capable players to get groups that they need and have fun completing the content, while your line of thinking says that the people who need a more skilled group due to any number of legitimate concerns don’t matter at all and should be excluded because how of you personally perceive them.

That is a disgusting and vile way of thought.

ZudetGambeous.9573:

Except that the only one who said that is you.

It is unfair for someone to hold back a group. It just is what it is. No one is saying that you aren’t allowed to group with them. If you knowingly take them along that is great and fine and good for you. But it isn’t fair to the other people who wanted to complete the dungeon. Maybe they only have a limited play time and only have 30 minutes to complete the dungeon. Is it fair that they can’t complete the dungeon because someone is holding the group back?

You are trying to make the under-performers all victims, while it is just as likely that the more skilled players are the victims.

The flaw/problem is that his line of thinking still allows for groups of slower less capable players to get groups that they need and have fun completing the content, while your line of thinking says that the people who need a more skilled group due to any number of legitimate concerns don’t matter at all and should be excluded because how of you personally perceive them.

That is a disgusting and vile way of thought.

I’ve always said that elitists should play with each other. They should feel free to play GW2. However there’s no excuse for this comment:

“If one cannot perform for whatever reason it is inconsiderate/unfair to hold a group back. This is true in GW2 and beyond.”

If you cannot see why such post would get so much negative reaction from many, you most surely must be biased in favor of it. Extreme versions of the thought justified stupid, wrong things like eugenics in this world.

The elitist dogma is controversial, because it makes some actually believe that they are “better” than others, and that it’s OK to discriminate based on their perceived superiority. That said, this is a mostly universal game, so players should just play with similar-minded fellows-elitist and non-elitist should feel free to play the way they want.

However, since this game wasn’t created only for elitists, they should be aware of the fact and not expect the game to be solely designed around their controversial whims (DPS meters and the like), especially since nowhere has ever ANet agreed with the idea that GW2 is a DPS-only game (even if many current encounters favor such conceptions.)

Also, if you go to the Dungeon forums (and in parts of this thread to be honest) there’s plenty of what I call “casual-bullying” that often goes unnoticed by the moderators, so statements such as “elitists being the victims” don’t ring true at all.

I am not one to criticize your speedrun gameplay, because that’s your choice (and I don’t join said groups, even being experienced, because I reject their playing philosophy-you will never see me complain me about being kicked in groups because I don’t join those who would be prone to kick me for whatever “meta” reason in their brains.) However, I do take offense when people are insulted as “lesser” for not wanting to be pseudo-elite. If you are “leet”, just leave those players you think are “bad” alone, rather than mocking them as if you were superior, which I must say you are really not.

Finally, many truly skilled/gifted people in this world don’t care to appear anything special, because they know they are good, need no external validation, and have no need to separate themselves from others as if to make a statement of their greatness. They have no need to toot their own horn, are often happy to help others that aren’t as gifted, and they don’t need to be exclusive in order to highlight their talents.

Star Ace.5207:

Yenn.9185:

The whole “play how you want” doesn’t just apply to you. It applies to elitist as well. If the casual (lack of better word) can play with pugs, why can’t the elitist play with whoever they chose to? Double standards.

They don’t want to, since by definition they are elitists and they think they are better than others, and WANT to be segregated and play with the so-called “elite.” Thus they should play with like-minded players rather than complain about lacking a DPS meter “tool” which would inevitably multiply the real attitude tools, such as seen here and many other threads.

In short, the elitist doesn’t want to PUG because he thinks he’s better than the “average” PUG-therefore, he/she shouldn’t complain and just play with so-called superior players to have “fun”, rather than complain forever about PUGs or lack of DPS meters. He/she is still free to play the way he/she wants, but he/she has chosen that he/she doesn’t want to play with PUGs, due to ill-placed feelings of superiority.

(Note that not all speedrunners are jerks, BTW, nor have I ever claimed as much; but the bad attitude of a few of them is a cancer that can make other players-which they would dare call “bad” without knowing them because they are not part of their “elite” strata-even stop playing the game, especially given the seal of approval of an official ANet given DPS meter. It would confirm that ANet agrees that DPS is the one way to play GW2, which they have never ever stated, as popular as that opinion is with some that claim that GW2 is “DPS-only” role by virtue of not employing a trinity combat system.)

In a perfect world, 4 members would be waiting for me in LA so we can run a dungeon right after I log in. But it’s not that case, everyone needs to Pug at some point, not just want. The tool would help the elite find like-minded people.

Yenn.9185:

Star Ace.5207:

Yenn.9185:

The whole “play how you want” doesn’t just apply to you. It applies to elitist as well. If the casual (lack of better word) can play with pugs, why can’t the elitist play with whoever they chose to? Double standards.

They don’t want to, since by definition they are elitists and they think they are better than others, and WANT to be segregated and play with the so-called “elite.” Thus they should play with like-minded players rather than complain about lacking a DPS meter “tool” which would inevitably multiply the real attitude tools, such as seen here and many other threads.

In short, the elitist doesn’t want to PUG because he thinks he’s better than the “average” PUG-therefore, he/she shouldn’t complain and just play with so-called superior players to have “fun”, rather than complain forever about PUGs or lack of DPS meters. He/she is still free to play the way he/she wants, but he/she has chosen that he/she doesn’t want to play with PUGs, due to ill-placed feelings of superiority.

(Note that not all speedrunners are jerks, BTW, nor have I ever claimed as much; but the bad attitude of a few of them is a cancer that can make other players-which they would dare call “bad” without knowing them because they are not part of their “elite” strata-even stop playing the game, especially given the seal of approval of an official ANet given DPS meter. It would confirm that ANet agrees that DPS is the one way to play GW2, which they have never ever stated, as popular as that opinion is with some that claim that GW2 is “DPS-only” role by virtue of not employing a trinity combat system.)

In a perfect world, 4 members would be waiting for me in LA so we can run a dungeon right after I log in. But it’s not that case, everyone needs to Pug at some point, not just want. The tool would help the elite find like-minded people.

the best tool to find like minded people would just be using the LFG properly.

I’ve never thought of DPS meters as a tool to alienate people, but rather a tool to improve your own skill by getting feedback on your performance. You could argue it’s a good way to filter the people you want to play with, but i can assure that argument wont sit well on these boards. People here view elitism the same way americans view terrorism.

Scrambles.2604:

Yenn.9185:

Star Ace.5207:

Yenn.9185:

The whole “play how you want” doesn’t just apply to you. It applies to elitist as well. If the casual (lack of better word) can play with pugs, why can’t the elitist play with whoever they chose to? Double standards.

They don’t want to, since by definition they are elitists and they think they are better than others, and WANT to be segregated and play with the so-called “elite.” Thus they should play with like-minded players rather than complain about lacking a DPS meter “tool” which would inevitably multiply the real attitude tools, such as seen here and many other threads.

In short, the elitist doesn’t want to PUG because he thinks he’s better than the “average” PUG-therefore, he/she shouldn’t complain and just play with so-called superior players to have “fun”, rather than complain forever about PUGs or lack of DPS meters. He/she is still free to play the way he/she wants, but he/she has chosen that he/she doesn’t want to play with PUGs, due to ill-placed feelings of superiority.

(Note that not all speedrunners are jerks, BTW, nor have I ever claimed as much; but the bad attitude of a few of them is a cancer that can make other players-which they would dare call “bad” without knowing them because they are not part of their “elite” strata-even stop playing the game, especially given the seal of approval of an official ANet given DPS meter. It would confirm that ANet agrees that DPS is the one way to play GW2, which they have never ever stated, as popular as that opinion is with some that claim that GW2 is “DPS-only” role by virtue of not employing a trinity combat system.)

In a perfect world, 4 members would be waiting for me in LA so we can run a dungeon right after I log in. But it’s not that case, everyone needs to Pug at some point, not just want. The tool would help the elite find like-minded people.

the best tool to find like minded people would just be using the LFG properly.

I’ve never thought of DPS meters as a tool to alienate people, but rather a tool to improve your own skill by getting feedback on your performance. You could argue it’s a good way to filter the people you want to play with, but i can assure that argument wont sit well on these boards. People here hate elitism the same way americans hate terrorism.

If LFG post is all it takes, then by all means. If you’ve been using the LFG tool for some time now you know that players don’t read, they refuse to read your post or blatantly ignore it. I think this board is scared of elitism even if its barely going to affect them, at least not directly.

Yenn.9185:

Star Ace.5207:

Yenn.9185:

The whole “play how you want” doesn’t just apply to you. It applies to elitist as well. If the casual (lack of better word) can play with pugs, why can’t the elitist play with whoever they chose to? Double standards.

They don’t want to, since by definition they are elitists and they think they are better than others, and WANT to be segregated and play with the so-called “elite.” Thus they should play with like-minded players rather than complain about lacking a DPS meter “tool” which would inevitably multiply the real attitude tools, such as seen here and many other threads.

In short, the elitist doesn’t want to PUG because he thinks he’s better than the “average” PUG-therefore, he/she shouldn’t complain and just play with so-called superior players to have “fun”, rather than complain forever about PUGs or lack of DPS meters. He/she is still free to play the way he/she wants, but he/she has chosen that he/she doesn’t want to play with PUGs, due to ill-placed feelings of superiority.

(Note that not all speedrunners are jerks, BTW, nor have I ever claimed as much; but the bad attitude of a few of them is a cancer that can make other players-which they would dare call “bad” without knowing them because they are not part of their “elite” strata-even stop playing the game, especially given the seal of approval of an official ANet given DPS meter. It would confirm that ANet agrees that DPS is the one way to play GW2, which they have never ever stated, as popular as that opinion is with some that claim that GW2 is “DPS-only” role by virtue of not employing a trinity combat system.)

In a perfect world, 4 members would be waiting for me in LA so we can run a dungeon right after I log in. But it’s not that case, everyone needs to Pug at some point, not just want. The tool would help the elite find like-minded people.

So would a guild or a board with a registry similar to LFG. So does being specific in your LFG post. And those wouldn’t influence the general community negatively like a meter would. Finding other elite players by it’s very nature means you’ll have a harder time then an unbiased player, you’re willfully filtering out a significant percentage of the playerbase.

Yenn.9185:

Scrambles.2604:

Yenn.9185:

Star Ace.5207:

Yenn.9185:

The whole “play how you want” doesn’t just apply to you. It applies to elitist as well. If the casual (lack of better word) can play with pugs, why can’t the elitist play with whoever they chose to? Double standards.

They don’t want to, since by definition they are elitists and they think they are better than others, and WANT to be segregated and play with the so-called “elite.” Thus they should play with like-minded players rather than complain about lacking a DPS meter “tool” which would inevitably multiply the real attitude tools, such as seen here and many other threads.

In short, the elitist doesn’t want to PUG because he thinks he’s better than the “average” PUG-therefore, he/she shouldn’t complain and just play with so-called superior players to have “fun”, rather than complain forever about PUGs or lack of DPS meters. He/she is still free to play the way he/she wants, but he/she has chosen that he/she doesn’t want to play with PUGs, due to ill-placed feelings of superiority.

(Note that not all speedrunners are jerks, BTW, nor have I ever claimed as much; but the bad attitude of a few of them is a cancer that can make other players-which they would dare call “bad” without knowing them because they are not part of their “elite” strata-even stop playing the game, especially given the seal of approval of an official ANet given DPS meter. It would confirm that ANet agrees that DPS is the one way to play GW2, which they have never ever stated, as popular as that opinion is with some that claim that GW2 is “DPS-only” role by virtue of not employing a trinity combat system.)

In a perfect world, 4 members would be waiting for me in LA so we can run a dungeon right after I log in. But it’s not that case, everyone needs to Pug at some point, not just want. The tool would help the elite find like-minded people.

the best tool to find like minded people would just be using the LFG properly.

I’ve never thought of DPS meters as a tool to alienate people, but rather a tool to improve your own skill by getting feedback on your performance. You could argue it’s a good way to filter the people you want to play with, but i can assure that argument wont sit well on these boards. People here hate elitism the same way americans hate terrorism.

If LFG post is all it takes, then by all means. If you’ve been using the LFG tool for some time now you know that players don’t read, they refuse to read your post or blatantly ignore it. I think this board is scared of elitism even if its barely going to affect them, at least not directly.

fair enough, i don’t do speed runs or anything so i’ve never had issues like that. You have a lot more group flexibility in “all classes welcome” runs

This and the gearscore argument has always blown my mind though. A lot of people here hate the idea of DPS meters for the reason you would use it, they don’t want to be barred from a group that says “LFM must do 500 dps or more.” Some people see this as “it’s not fair i can’t join” but i’ve always seen it as, “well i better figure out how to do 500 dps if i want to join.”

Same thing with WoW, when i saw groups saying “LFM – must have this must GS” i just thought, “oh well ok, time to get enough GS to be able to pug those runs!” and not “what! minimal GS required!? time to post on the boards!”

ZudetGambeous.9573:

There is nothing currently in the game stopping you from getting a group together of all casual laid back people and having all the fun you want. Your method of playing isn’t restricted. However if I want efficient skilled players I have no method of finding them.

There is nothing currently in the game stopping you from getting a group together of all skill-and-efficiency people and having the efficient dungeon run you want either. You might have to do a little math, pay attention, use trial and error and your friend’s list to identify players who can complete a dungeon in a time frame you find acceptable. Don’t try to paint it that you’re completely at a loss on how to find like-minded players because the game doesn’t have a feature to make that easier for you. The lack of a meter has certainly not stopped speed-running guilds, and groups, from forming and being successful — so your claim seems over-the-top.

IndigoSundown.5419:

ZudetGambeous.9573:

There is nothing currently in the game stopping you from getting a group together of all casual laid back people and having all the fun you want. Your method of playing isn’t restricted. However if I want efficient skilled players I have no method of finding them.

There is nothing currently in the game stopping you from getting a group together of all skill-and-efficiency people and having the efficient dungeon run you want either. You might have to do a little math, pay attention, use trial and error and your friend’s list to identify players who can complete a dungeon in a time frame you find acceptable. Don’t try to paint it that you’re completely at a loss on how to find like-minded players because the game doesn’t have a feature to make that easier for you. The lack of a meter has certainly not stopped speed-running guilds, and groups, from forming and being successful — so your claim seems over-the-top.

We all just wanna have an easier time finding the people we wanna run with. If you ever find a method for casual to more easily find the people they wanna run with, then please implement that as well. The lack of meter makes it harder to pug elite runs, surely it didn’t stop it.

Guild runs and friend runs are good and all, but as I mentioned it’s quite difficult to find people that run dungeons on your schedule. They may have done the path already or they don’t have enough time, etc.

Yenn.9185:

In a perfect world, 4 members would be waiting for me in LA so we can run a dungeon right after I log in. But it’s not that case, everyone needs to Pug at some point, not just want. The tool would help the elite find like-minded people.

LFG is already provided. Discriminating with a DPS meter won’t make it any easier to find groups, just ask for experienced players for speedrun only (or your own requirements, gear, etc.) Ironically, since it’s not needed in this game, a DPS meter would make it the norm for the players you hate (the so called “bad” players) so they will use the gear and builds you want, but inefficiently, because they are not experienced as you are. They will still want to get into this pseudo-elite groups, so they will fulfill DPS requirements minus achievement points (which I find ridiculous, to require, but to each their own.) Basically the DPS meter can’t guarantee that people with the “right” gear/build will play well or know the instance (nor can achievement points, for that matter.)

Think about it again: DPS meter means:

-ANet officially agrees that GW2 is a DPS race game (which I honestly doubt it’s their intention.)

-Player segregation is officially the right thing to do. I doubt ANet’s original “play how you want” meant “be a jerk to each other because you play differently.” This is very important for ANet, I believe, and along the fourth reason I gave below, is the probably why it will never be implemented (of course it’s not needed either anyway.)

-Players WILL want to adopt FotM efficient builds/gear to meet the current meta and DPS criteria, regardless whether these are a good fit to their playstyle. This means, oddly enough, that the meter won’t be making any difference for “leet” group seekers other than making players want to clone whatever is popular and efficient at the time in order to get into groups. You will still get the players you don’t seem to like with the builds/gear you like.

-Finally, based on all the above, it will erode the community further making elitism a developer-approved playstyle that many will start to emulate as “the way” to play GW2, multiplying the number of cyber-bullies already available (whether they themselves are good players or not-as usual-they will judge others based on DPS and effectually begin a witchhunt on those who don’t meet either meta builds or DPS scores-if it still happens as of now, how much it will multiply if such thing is implemented?)

(There are plenty of truly elite players who don’t speedrun out of personal choice, so this “elite” groups you prefer should be called elitists, which is a different thing. Or just speedrunners, really suits them better than the “elite” word, which involves more than just playing the game as fast as possible.)

In short, DPS meters won’t be used as a “self-improvement” tool, but rather as a player segregation tool. ANet will rather have such segregation happen as a player/group/guild choice (as it is now) rather than something they officially back by giving you the “anti-baddie” tool-basically the reason people REALLY want the DPS meter-you so much crave for (ironically, it only takes account of DPS, not player skill/experience, which is more important in this game than those with the trinity system.)

No offense meant to your playstyle-speedrun away all you want. I just hate the intolerance/arrogance/bad attitudes, not the playstyle itself. Let’s not make it an official, ANet-backed part of the game.

I would rather see a DPS meter (in the OP’s expanded sense where it includes useful non-DPS statistics) where someone running a build that is not commonly recognized can demonstrate that they are capable of carrying their weight in a team than a situation where one is required to ping gear or build which is then compared to an assumption of the one true best for higher end content.

Yenn.9185:

IndigoSundown.5419:

ZudetGambeous.9573:

There is nothing currently in the game stopping you from getting a group together of all casual laid back people and having all the fun you want. Your method of playing isn’t restricted. However if I want efficient skilled players I have no method of finding them.

There is nothing currently in the game stopping you from getting a group together of all skill-and-efficiency people and having the efficient dungeon run you want either. You might have to do a little math, pay attention, use trial and error and your friend’s list to identify players who can complete a dungeon in a time frame you find acceptable. Don’t try to paint it that you’re completely at a loss on how to find like-minded players because the game doesn’t have a feature to make that easier for you. The lack of a meter has certainly not stopped speed-running guilds, and groups, from forming and being successful — so your claim seems over-the-top.

We all just wanna have an easier time finding the people we wanna run with. If you ever find a method for casual to more easily find the people they wanna run with, then please implement that as well. The lack of meter makes it harder to pug elite runs, surely it didn’t stop it.

Guild runs and friend runs are good and all, but as I mentioned it’s quite difficult to find people that run dungeons on your schedule. They may have done the path already or they don’t have enough time, etc.

I understand the desire for convenience. I’d love to see a radial button on the LFG that forced the choice of an “efficiency run” or a “laissez-faire (anything goes) run.” It wouldn’t solve the problem of people who want to buck the system, but it would certainly separate by inclination. However, it’s in ANet’s interests not to segregate the player-base. They want everyone to have an easy time getting a dungeon group, and any feature that looks like it would divide the player-base is unlikely to be implemented. Sadly, for your purposes, that probably means no meter.

Okay, I am not going to quote those big blocks of text:

Star Ace, Call me a bigot all you want. Going by the true definition of the word, I can flip the tables and hurl a similar insult, but I am not gonna do that. Thing is, again, I don’t care what leads to one’s underperformance, I don’t even want to know. I do know the MAJORITY of underperformers simply are bad at games or are too lazy to learn how to play so I’ll deal with all bad players as such. That’s right, majorities Vayne – how you like that now? Love how the sword swings both ways. I’m in awe of how you all are trying to bring handicapped people into the equation in an attempt to appeal to passion when in the vast majority of cases people simply suck at the game. In reality, and get offended I don’t care, but I am going to try to say this with as much respect as possible: There are some things that if you’re handicapped you just shouldn’t do, especially group activities where one’s performance (or lack thereof) affects other’s (especially strangers).

When I am playing a game and someone is dragging the group down, I don’t care if their computer is bad, if a storm is lagging them out, if they are sad irl, if they only have 2 fingers, if they really do have Down syndrome or whatever the case may be. It’s none of my concern, I am not here to get people’s life story while running a dungeon, I am here simply to play a game – and if someone joins to a group, they should be able to perform to high enough standard as to where they are not being a drain on the group. I am no elitist, for elitists want people who perform above average. The people I kick are ones who cannot even play the game with an average level of skill.

True story: I love shooting, but my vision is awful. Wouldn’t it be very unfair for me to join a Skeet & Trap team and drag them down only to say, “but my eyes, I can’t control that – I love trap shooting.”? I submit that it would be very unfair. There are a lot of extra curricular activities in life I want to get into but lack the skill to do, so I am not gonna just impose myself on the people engaged in such activities because it’s what I want to do. That is the very definition of inconsiderate. It may not be politically correct to say so, but it is what it is; certain physical/mental disabilities negatively impact one’s ability to perform a certain task even to a minimal standard, and when that is the case one shouldn’t engage in an activity where failing to meet that standard negatively impacts a group.

I’ve worked with handicapped people, and many of them hate this notion that standards should be lowered for them (ironic that many handicapped people would be more offended by many of you than me). If there is an activity they know they cannot perform they either do it solo, or not at all… the considerate ones and the ones who are confident, at least. Many handicapped people do not want to go around underperforming in any given task and having the world feel sorry for them or give them special treatment. Anyone who has known more than a single handicapped friend (i.e. who has worked with disabed folks) can tell you this.

No thanks.

DPS meters are only wanted by stuck up elitist snoobs. We don’t need more of that in the game.

IndigoSundown.5419:

Yenn.9185:

IndigoSundown.5419:

ZudetGambeous.9573:

There is nothing currently in the game stopping you from getting a group together of all casual laid back people and having all the fun you want. Your method of playing isn’t restricted. However if I want efficient skilled players I have no method of finding them.

There is nothing currently in the game stopping you from getting a group together of all skill-and-efficiency people and having the efficient dungeon run you want either. You might have to do a little math, pay attention, use trial and error and your friend’s list to identify players who can complete a dungeon in a time frame you find acceptable. Don’t try to paint it that you’re completely at a loss on how to find like-minded players because the game doesn’t have a feature to make that easier for you. The lack of a meter has certainly not stopped speed-running guilds, and groups, from forming and being successful — so your claim seems over-the-top.

We all just wanna have an easier time finding the people we wanna run with. If you ever find a method for casual to more easily find the people they wanna run with, then please implement that as well. The lack of meter makes it harder to pug elite runs, surely it didn’t stop it.

Guild runs and friend runs are good and all, but as I mentioned it’s quite difficult to find people that run dungeons on your schedule. They may have done the path already or they don’t have enough time, etc.

I understand the desire for convenience. I’d love to see a radial button on the LFG that forced the choice of an “efficiency run” or a “laissez-faire (anything goes) run.” It wouldn’t solve the problem of people who want to buck the system, but it would certainly separate by inclination. However, it’s in ANet’s interests not to segregate the player-base. They want everyone to have an easy time getting a dungeon group, and any feature that looks like it would divide the player-base is unlikely to be implemented. Sadly, for your purposes, that probably means no meter.

In GW2, segregation is quite inevitable. In a game where improvement equals skills, there is always room to get better. Players would group themselves according to who they wanna play with, namely players with similar play style and skill. There are those that spend their time to get better and wanna get rewarded in terms of a faster run. It’s like in any other sport like basketball. A good player wanna be in a good team to play against another good team.

I think segregation is less of an issue here, it has more something to do with what GW2 is all about. It’s a casual, very casual, game and Anet wouldn’t implement anything that would demote the casual aspect of the game.