Actions, not words.
Remember, remember, 15th of November
Remember, remember, 15th of November
Why we can`t use DPS meter?
Meta = Jacking up on Power/Crit/Crit% so you can faceroll to rewards
Thats not my game sorry. Ill carry power/crit/crit% to a point, but I will never roll 100% zerker, thats boring and dull. And those that are doing that ARE the bad players. Period.
Does no one else find it ironic that someone who’s account handle is sirsquishy is advocating more passive defense in a quasi-action game?
This thread has been hijacked by off topic discussions of elitism, dungeon runs, and gear choices. None of which is actually about the topic of a performance meter. As I keep saying repeatedly, there’s more to this game than running in an instance. WvW and sPvP players could use a performance tool especially.
Not meaningfully, dummy target DPS is largely meaningless in both formats, especially in the current meta.
Pure damage maxxing in a controlled environment is pretty much only useful in fully controlled environments like dungeon runs.
Why don’t we have DPS meters?
Dungeon is all about DPS. It makes no sense to not have it. I want a tool where I can accurately kick people that does subpar dps.
5x Warrior, 5x Ranger, 4x Elementalist, 4x Engineer,
4x Necromancer, 3x Mesmer, 4x Guardian, 4x Thief, 4 Revenant
4x Necromancer, 3x Mesmer, 4x Guardian, 4x Thief, 4 Revenant
Why don’t we have DPS meters?
Dungeon is all about DPS. It makes no sense to not have it. I want a tool where I can accurately kick people that does subpar dps.
Which honestly answers the question really well.
It’s not about personality, teaching, playing how you want or anything else. It’s about getting the most bang for your buck and for that reason you’ll want :
If you were talking about running a business I would be inclined to agree with you. Since we’re talking about playing a social game online, I think that you and other players like you have lost perspective.
Since when has fun = bad? Get this straight. You who want zerk do not have fun. You play so that you can eat the carrot at the end of the stick, but you aren’t having fun … Down with zerker. blah blah blah
I may be anti-DPS meter and anti-inspect but there’s nothing wrong with playing zerker, I mean I play in head-to-toe zerker gear and that’s my choice just as it’s everyone else choice to play the way they want to. Playing my way doesn’t make things any less fun simply because I choose to do it with a particular gear stat combo .. to each her / his own.
I don’t think that’s how he meant it. Certainly, you can have fun in zerker gear. The problem is that most players insisting on zerker gear do so because they just want to get their dungeon runs over with as quickly as possible so that they can cash their paychecks and move on to other in-game activities. That’s why he says they’re not having fun. By all means play with zerker gear and stack behind an obstacle so that you can nullify all boss mechanics. I agree with DaedalusDragon, however, that it’s more fun to spread out, cope with boss mechanics, and take down a boss as originally intended. I view the game as a game, not as a business.
So, time to recruit.
- 10 000+ AP
- Meta Build Only
- Full Ascended Berserker Gear, Jewelry
- Full set of Superior Rune of Strength
- Legendary Weapon(Berserker stats)
- All Offensive slots filled with Power Infusions
- Dungeon Master title
- Hobby Dungeon Explorer Achievement Completed
- Don’t be a baddie
- I must know you
- Link screenshot to your minimal DPS (if value is too low, we’ll reject you, and call you bad noob)
If you meet above requirements please leave your CV and maybe we’ll take you with us for a test run.
This is pretty much how raiding guilds in WoW recruit.
We don’t stack to negate mechanics.
Except for when:
certain CC mechanics effect you less when you stack in a corner. E.g. stuff that knocks you miles away only disables you when you are in a corner, thus you don’t get out of boon range etc.
Mind you, I’m not opposed to this style of play, and I understand why most players prefer it, but be honest about it.
I view the game as a game, not as a business.
Please get off your strawman-powered moral high ground. Business can be fun for some. You’re entitled to say that our way kills your fun, but to say that it kills ours as well is simply reaching and egocentric. “Your fun is not my fun” goes both ways.
By all means play with zerker gear and stack behind an obstacle so that you can nullify all boss mechanics.
Please show me how I can nullify the Archdiviner or Imbued Shaman in Fractal 37/38/49/50 by stacking on them with zerker gear. I would be happy to pass that information to my group the next time we do it, and we would all be eternally grateful.
Until then, please realize the conversation extends beyond the Spider Queen in AC or that Flame Legion boss in CoF1.
Content in this game will always seem
to be faceroll at the high levels, because it
needs to be accessible to the casuals and bads.
to be faceroll at the high levels, because it
needs to be accessible to the casuals and bads.
I view the game as a game, not as a business.
Please get off your strawman-powered moral high ground. Business can be fun for some. You’re entitled to say that our way kills your fun, but to say that it kills ours as well is simply reaching and egocentric. “Your fun is not my fun” goes both ways.
Way to take a statement out of context. When did I say anything about what you liked? I said that I agree with DaedalusDragon that
it’s more fun to spread out, cope with boss mechanics, and take down a boss as originally intended.
because I view this game as a game. I never said that my way was superior or that it was the only way to play. I was just trying to explain why he said that zerker style play isn’t fun.
By all means play with zerker gear and stack behind an obstacle so that you can nullify all boss mechanics.
Please show me how I can nullify the Archdiviner or Imbued Shaman in Fractal 37/38/49/50 by stacking on them with zerker gear. I would be happy to pass that information to my group the next time we do it, and we would all be eternally grateful.
Funny how you accuse me of straw manning and then come up with this. You don’t stack on those fights, do you? Then why would my statement apply to those? DPS meters probably wouldn’t even apply to high level fractals anyway, because the gear requirements and agony mechanics already serve that purpose. The fact remains that most players stack on most bosses in dungeons. As one of the proponents of DPS meters pointed out:
We don’t stack to negate mechanics. We stack because there is a maximum range on boons, because when everyone is stacked it’s easier to res a downed player, because melee by design is better than range (more damage and thus preferred for speedclearers) and becuz certain CC mechanics effect you less when you stack in a corner. E.g. stuff that knocks you miles away only disables you when you are in a corner, thus you don’t get out of boon range etc. Also, AOE’ing trash is easier if they are all grouped together in a corner.
(edited by Bernie.8674)
People saying ‘its not a business its a game’.
Yeah well, that’s great for you and all but some of us see games as serious as any competitive athlete would see a sport.
If you are a top HS player and you can win 90k in a tournament. Are you gonna run sub-optimal decks because oh dear meta is so evul and spoils fun. Yeah, totally, winning 90k with the best deck in the game is not fun at all! Losing and being barely able to break even on travel expenses but using a ‘fun’ deck. Yeah, that’s totally worth it right!
Or if you’re a wow raider. Imagine Method saying in an interview, yeah, next time guys, we’re all gonna bring holy pala DPS because it’s way for fun! Screw meta! I’m sure their sponsors would be totally okay about that.
GW2 doesn’t have this level of competition. But I can bet you everyone who is doing the highest level of PvE in this game (or sPvP, which isn’t much the e-sport Anet wanted it to be, yet.. there is still hope) wish there was. And if anet decides to introduce raids to this game, you can bet everyone will race for server 1st/region first/world first completion. And they will all be running meta.
It’s fine that your prefer being casual, as do probably most GW2 players as it is mostly a casual-oriented game. But don’t come with stupid crap like ’it’s just a game’.
As for the comment about the WoW raiding guild demands list. It’s nothing more than a fair list. You want fast progression so obviously you’d only recruit people who can guarantee that.
(edited by Verificus.4320)
People saying ‘its not a business its a game’.
Yeah well, that’s great for you and all but some of us see games as serious as any competitive athlete would see a sport.
If you are a top HS player and you can win 90k in a tournament. Are you gonna run sub-optimal decks because oh dear meta is so evul and spoils fun. Yeah, totally, winning 90k with the best deck in the game is not fun at all! Losing and being barely able to break even on travel expenses but using a ‘fun’ deck. Yeah, that’s totally worth it right!
Or if you’re a wow raider. Imagine Method saying in an interview, yeah, next time guys, we’re all gonna bring holy pala DPS because it’s way for fun! Screw meta! I’m sure their sponsors would be totally okay about that.
GW2 doesn’t have this level of competition. But I can bet you everyone who is doing the highest level of PvE in this game (or sPvP, which isn’t much the e-sport Anet wanted it to be, yet.. there is still hope) wish there was. And if anet decides to introduce raids to this game, you can bet everyone will race for server 1st/region first/world first completion. And they will all be running meta.
It’s fine that your prefer being casual, as do probably most GW2 players as it is mostly a casual-oriented game. But don’t come with stupid crap like ’it’s just a game’.
As for the comment about the WoW raiding guild demands list. It’s nothing more than a fair list. You want fast progression so obviously you’d only recruit people who can guarantee that.
The WoW raider mentality is something that by all appearances Arenanet has been desperately trying to discourage and leave behind.
Edit: And seriously, renown competition in GW1 and GW2 was all about PvP. Progression competition is toxic and has no place.
The zerk speed clearers don’t want to play with those people, and that’s fine, but stop ridiculing them for being different. You don’t know a kitten thing about them!
I know that their ceiling is double digit percentage points lower than that of a zerker.
While most of us are aware of the imperfect correlation between “potential” and “reality”, the double digit percentage ceiling gap is indeed a reality and means a non-zerker has to play that much better to even catch up.
Another brutally honest truth: playing zerker/non-zerker is a choice (as opposed to a skill requirement), and choices have consequences. It’s up to you whether you take “sub-optimal” (in the context of ceiling/potential) as objective truth or subjective ridicule.
PS: You’ll only ever hear this word from me if you try to offer suboptimal advice to someone asking for help in map chat. But, if you do talk about how your tanking/healing/roleplaying setup is somehow optimal, you will no longer be entitled to my silence.
Never claimed to be optimal. Just different, which is a perfectly valid choice to make.
My point still stands. Just because they opt to run Valk over Zerk (for example) doesn’t make them a “bad” or skill-less players. Yes, they do less damage. Yes, they are not running the most efficient, face roll armor available. That still does not make them wrong. It does not make them bad ( although there are those that legitimately are). Which was the whole topic of the original conversation.
Not whether they were right or wrong for trying to join a zerk speed clear that is clearly called out as one. Not whether they do more or less damage. Not whether its optimal or not.
Assuming people are “bad” players just because they don’t run zerk gear is the same as assuming that the black man you pass on the street is absolutely going to mug you. It’s not necessarily true. That is the whole point of this conversation.
I am quite curious as to why you call zerk, a face roll armor?…if anything any gear that makes you noticeably more tanky through passive stats is more facerollish than zerk. A valkyrie thief for instance can make alot more mistakes in a dungeon than a zerk thief, evident in one of my cm runs where a valk thief facetanked a rocket turret without being downed while a zerk thief would be instantly in down state. The same pretty much goes for any fights where their are big hits involved.
I wanted to avoid posting in this forum but here I feel I need to step in. He called zerk a face roll armor because thats exactly what it is. Zerker gear is whats enabling the stack meta. Where you push the boss into a corner and proceed to COMPLETELY NEGATE THE FIGHT by burning through it faster than the game can handle. It is actually bypassing the most dangerous mechanics of most boss fights. Part of the problem is with the dodge mechanic enabling you to actively stand in a stack (which in ANY OTHER GAME would be a 100% horrible idea) the other is the high damage low risk “meta” actively enabling what SHOULD be a high risk high reward playstyle to be a low risk high reward playstyle.
Namely. You will kill the boss FAR before it has even a remote chance of burning through whatever dodge rolls and aegis you can pop. It takes sustaining yourself through a fight completely out of the equation. Which in turn makes control and support useless but thats another story.
If you want to run full zerk groups feel free. But don’t you DARE act like its harder than it is. You aren’t playing the game in the hardest difficulty. Your doing it in the easiest method possible because your farming dungeons not fighting them. You know as well as I that having low toughness and vitality doesn’t mean anything when the boss simply wont have a chance to hit you.
It’s ok that you’re new. Everyone is at some point. I’d just advise being knowledgeable about what you’re talking about before you insult lots of people with what is nothing more than spluttering nonsense.
It’s really hard not to also veer offtarget here, but I’ve gotta ask.
Why is it so very important to establish that zerk is both best and takes super skills?
It’s really hard not to also veer offtarget here, but I’ve gotta ask.
Why is it so very important to establish that zerk is both best and takes super skills?
This whole argument is only applicable to PvE:
The word best is meaningless. Zerk is the fastest armor to complete organized group content and probably to complete most open world content as well, with a few exceptions like killing husks during the Wurm fight.
It doesn’t require super skills but it does require knowledge of encounters. Without passive defense, one must use active defenses, and this requires knowing what to do. Zerk isn’t faceroll and stacking doesn’t avoid fundamental game mechanics as implied above. It’s fast and efficient ONLY when people know what they’re doing. If you take a whole party of noobs in PVT and a whole party of noobs in Zerk in Arah, I’d bet the PVT team finishes first because that gear forgives the party’s lack of knowledge.
People saying ‘its not a business its a game’.
Yeah well, that’s great for you and all but some of us see games as serious as any competitive athlete would see a sport.
If you are a top HS player and you can win 90k in a tournament. Are you gonna run sub-optimal decks because oh dear meta is so evul and spoils fun. Yeah, totally, winning 90k with the best deck in the game is not fun at all! Losing and being barely able to break even on travel expenses but using a ‘fun’ deck. Yeah, that’s totally worth it right!
Or if you’re a wow raider. Imagine Method saying in an interview, yeah, next time guys, we’re all gonna bring holy pala DPS because it’s way for fun! Screw meta! I’m sure their sponsors would be totally okay about that.
GW2 doesn’t have this level of competition. But I can bet you everyone who is doing the highest level of PvE in this game (or sPvP, which isn’t much the e-sport Anet wanted it to be, yet.. there is still hope) wish there was. And if anet decides to introduce raids to this game, you can bet everyone will race for server 1st/region first/world first completion. And they will all be running meta.
It’s fine that your prefer being casual, as do probably most GW2 players as it is mostly a casual-oriented game. But don’t come with stupid crap like ’it’s just a game’.
As for the comment about the WoW raiding guild demands list. It’s nothing more than a fair list. You want fast progression so obviously you’d only recruit people who can guarantee that.
The WoW raider mentality is something that by all appearances Arenanet has been desperately trying to discourage and leave behind.
Edit: And seriously, renown competition in GW1 and GW2 was all about PvP. Progression competition is toxic and has no place.
It will have a place if Anet introduces raids. Raids by their nature will cause this to happen. Raiding in other games is mostly handled by outside third party websites when it comes to competitions/ladders/statistics. Even if Anet just puts in the raid and completely disregards any competitive support for it, players will create the medium. There will be gw2progress.com just like there is wowprogress.com
Also your impression of the ‘wow raider mentality’ is about as blurred as your impression of the ‘gw2 zerk mentality’. Most of your bad impressions in this game most likely come from pugs. I’d urge you to go on some speedclears with a dedicated guild and hang out with these people and you’ll find we are not elitist monsters but rather really passionate and friendly persons that love this game and love being competitive. All the negativity you see comes from thirteen year olds making ‘NEET SERK FAIV KAY AP OR KIK PING GEAR’ groups and then failing to be useful themselves. The actual community is actually really nice and quite helpful as evident by the amount of resources they have put out like gw2dungeons and the like and also the existence of all the dungeon mentoring programs.
The same can be said for wow. Go follow wow for a while but from the perspective of an ACTUAL competitive guild, rather than a bunch of kids who are severly depressed about both their outside life and their ingame raid progressiont that they take it out on the poor wow plebs. Every community has rotten apples and in MMO’s unfortunately those apples are usually a majority.
I speak for myself when I say I might come off as a jerk in many of these threads but that is mostly aimed at people that are clueless hobbits and want to participate in discussions they no nothing of. The typical newb vs noob. I like newbs. I will teach them what I can and do their story mode dungeons with them in whatever gear they like. I don’t dislike casuals either, lots of my guildies are casuals and they are great people. I do however despise noobs and will kick them from my pugs with a fiery boot of elitist doom.
(edited by Verificus.4320)
As for ur other post Windsagio,
We don’t claim zerkers are good and clerics are bad because of the gear they wear but because of the lack of knowledge and the lack of a will to properly inform themselves about why meta is meta in this game. Understanding what is best and why it is best is the difference between good and bad players. This is a seperate quality and mostly unrelated to individual player skill. It’s about having a ‘competitive mindset’. That is what makes one person bad and the other great. Thats why I argued earlier that choice invalidates skill. Becuz by making a choice to go cleric instead of zerker one does not fully comprehend why meta is meta and is not able to tap into that ‘competitive mindset’. Thats why they are not useful to us metazerkers. That’s why they will never be in our group. Because their choice has invalidated their skill. The game is easy enough as is that you could solo every dungeon in any type of gear provided you know what you are doing so yeah.
People saying ‘its not a business its a game’.
Yeah well, that’s great for you and all but some of us see games as serious as any competitive athlete would see a sport.
This thread is about DPS meters and why they would be abused in PUGs.
Or if you’re a wow raider. Imagine Method saying in an interview, yeah, next time guys, we’re all gonna bring holy pala DPS because it’s way for fun! Screw meta! I’m sure their sponsors would be totally okay about that.
When was the last time Method PUGged their way to a world first? You’re talking apples and oranges here.
GW2 doesn’t have this level of competition.
Bingo.
But I can bet you everyone who is doing the highest level of PvE in this game (or sPvP, which isn’t much the e-sport Anet wanted it to be, yet.. there is still hope) wish there was.
And I suspect that you would lose that bet. Guild Wars has always been aimed at the casual crowd and always will be. If you want to participate in e-sports, there are plenty of games out there to provide that.
And if anet decides to introduce raids to this game, you can bet everyone will race for server 1st/region first/world first completion. And they will all be running meta.
ANet will never introduce raids, for the same reason they don’t add a DPS meter. This isn’t that kind of game.
It’s fine that your prefer being casual, as do probably most GW2 players as it is mostly a casual-oriented game. But don’t come with stupid crap like ’it’s just a game’.
It’s not “stupid crap” that I came up with. It’s reality. The sooner you accept it the happier you’ll be.
As for the comment about the WoW raiding guild demands list. It’s nothing more than a fair list. You want fast progression so obviously you’d only recruit people who can guarantee that.
I never said otherwise. There’s a reason I don’t play WoW anymore. The point of my comment was that the list (that someone else gave) is an excellent example of where DPS meters lead. If you want DPS and job-level guild applications, then by all means renew your WoW sub. But please quit trying to make our casual game into a clone of your raiding game.
People saying ‘its not a business its a game’.
Yeah well, that’s great for you and all but some of us see games as serious as any competitive athlete would see a sport.
If you are a top HS player and you can win 90k in a tournament. Are you gonna run sub-optimal decks because oh dear meta is so evul and spoils fun. Yeah, totally, winning 90k with the best deck in the game is not fun at all! Losing and being barely able to break even on travel expenses but using a ‘fun’ deck. Yeah, that’s totally worth it right!
Or if you’re a wow raider. Imagine Method saying in an interview, yeah, next time guys, we’re all gonna bring holy pala DPS because it’s way for fun! Screw meta! I’m sure their sponsors would be totally okay about that.
GW2 doesn’t have this level of competition. But I can bet you everyone who is doing the highest level of PvE in this game (or sPvP, which isn’t much the e-sport Anet wanted it to be, yet.. there is still hope) wish there was. And if anet decides to introduce raids to this game, you can bet everyone will race for server 1st/region first/world first completion. And they will all be running meta.
It’s fine that your prefer being casual, as do probably most GW2 players as it is mostly a casual-oriented game. But don’t come with stupid crap like ’it’s just a game’.
As for the comment about the WoW raiding guild demands list. It’s nothing more than a fair list. You want fast progression so obviously you’d only recruit people who can guarantee that.
The WoW raider mentality is something that by all appearances Arenanet has been desperately trying to discourage and leave behind.
Edit: And seriously, renown competition in GW1 and GW2 was all about PvP. Progression competition is toxic and has no place.
It will have a place if Anet introduces raids. Raids by their nature will cause this to happen. Raiding in other games is mostly handled by outside third party websites when it comes to competitions/ladders/statistics. Even if Anet just puts in the raid and completely disregards any competitive support for it, players will create the medium. There will be gw2progress.com just like there is wowprogress.com
Also your impression of the ‘wow raider mentality’ is about as blurred as your impression of the ‘gw2 zerk mentality’. Most of your bad impressions in this game most likely come from pugs. I’d urge you to go on some speedclears with a dedicated guild and hang out with these people and you’ll find we are not elitist monsters but rather really passionate and friendly persons that love this game and love being competitive. All the negativity you see comes from thirteen year olds making ‘NEET SERK FAIV KAY AP OR KIK PING GEAR’ groups and then failing to be useful themselves. The actual community is actually really nice and quite helpful as evident by the amount of resources they have put out like gw2dungeons and the like and also the existence of all the dungeon mentoring programs.
The same can be said for wow. Go follow wow for a while but from the perspective of an ACTUAL competitive guild, rather than a bunch of kids who are severly depressed about both their outside life and their ingame raid progressiont that they take it out on the poor wow plebs. Every community has rotten apples and in MMO’s unfortunately those apples are usually a majority.
I speak for myself when I say I might come off as a jerk in many of these threads but that is mostly aimed at people that are clueless hobbits and want to participate in discussions they no nothing of. The typical newb vs noob. I like newbs. I will teach them what I can and do their story mode dungeons with them in whatever gear they like. I don’t dislike casuals either, lots of my guildies are casuals and they are great people. I do however despise noobs and will kick them from my pugs with a fiery boot of elitist doom.
We should combine threads. I really do want to respond to this but it’s wildly offtopic and we have a zerk meta thread already.
Let me leave it at this: One thing I certainly know about though is the raid mindset. It’s been a while, but the stuff I’m seeing here echoes all to well with the attitude I remember.
The same can be said for wow. Go follow wow for a while but from the perspective of an ACTUAL competitive guild, rather than a bunch of kids who are severly depressed about both their outside life and their ingame raid progressiont that they take it out on the poor wow plebs.
You mean like this guy’s? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sRUer4XfLL8
Or maybe this guy’s:
https://www.facebook.com/Killarslol/posts/572309812789070
Why? How? Well this game isn’t to blame. In the last few years this game (despite many people quitting and guilds dying) isn’t to blame for vodka/Exodus’ demise it’s the raiding community. I don’t mean this is a pointing the finger sort of way, it’s an inevitable sort of flaw in the competition of the top end raiders. You see… we’ve basically been killing ourselves off slowly since day 1. In the last few years we’ve certainly picked up the pace, but the “hardcore raider” is a dying breed and it’s certainly becoming a more difficult breed to be a part of. What I mean by this is of course the time commitment and the level of shear dedication and determination it takes and costs to be at the very top. This isn’t to poke fun, but to just shed light of why many people, and subsequently, many guilds will fall. Raiding for many many hours on end is fun, CAN be exciting, and at the end of it all can really prove who really wants that world first/us first/realm first the most. Unfortunately we (hardcore raiders) pushed too hard. Tier after tier we just keep adding to the insanity in both farming preparations and actual progressing. It’s almost as if progression itself never really ends after a end tier boss dies. Combine this with Blizzard actually putting new content out faster, alts playing a big role, PTR/BETA, dailys, coins, BMAH, well… you just get lost in it all. Right now there are a few legit world first guilds left. The competition is slim because the competition is literally eating each other (well not that literally). Good luck to everyone left in the race for this expact, but I don’t know how much longer this sort of thing can last.
(edited by Bernie.8674)
I read about 1/4 of this thread before posting this because I don’t want to spend THAT much time on this argument.
I’m probably going to be called a meta-hater, but I’m not. I don’t play zerks because it’s an answered question, and is therefore less interesting to me. As a player I want to explore the space of build options, and the least interesting part of that space is that which has already been most thoroughly explored/documented. I’m not someone who is gonna argue that my Condi Engi does as much DPS as he would if he was zerks, but I have finite in-game resources (time, laurels, gold, etc) and I’m more interested in spending my time figuring out what other builds are capable of. I’m more interested in approaching in-game content as a puzzle than I am in taking the so to speak ‘right answer’ and face-rolling. The game is eminently ’winnable’* without zerks, and I’m want to see how other builds fare, since anyone who has ever been in Lions Arch already knows how zerks fares.
I say all this because I imagine I’m not alone in this attitude. Note that, as I said first-off, this doesn’t mean I hate zerks. It makes perfect sense to me that sizable portion of the player-base only wants to play with the highest DPS build.
Also, saying all of this might set up my next point as unexpected: I would love it if there was an in game DPS meter. That way, while I’m exploring the possibility space of GW2 builds, I can gain some empirical knowledge about the builds I’m testing/interested in. From the perspective of implementation, there are a myriad of ways that they could make DPS un-ping-able. (i.e. when you do a DPS check the game could tell you your DPS by sending you mail, the body of which is unpingable). It doesn’t seem like it would be hard at all to keep other players from being able to find your DPS, but moreover that, why does it matter. Yes there are people who will kick you from a party for not wearing zerks, but but there are more people who won’t.
IDK, this is already more time than I wanted to spend on this.
tl:dr: even some people who don’t use zerks, the king of all builds, are interested in a DPS meter. Data is cool. Happy Wintersday season.
*by ‘winnable’ I mean you can experience all of the content. I have yet to beat lupi without zerks, but I willing to bet that even that is possible.
My reference to method was to point out that fun means different things for different people. You feel job-level guild applications and taking high level PvE alot more serious than the average player is comparable to a business. Other people think differently. Just like there are many people who actually enjoy their job there are also plenty of people who have no problem with doing job-like activities in a game. In fact, if I speak for myself, having to work for something in a game actually makes me feel more immersed, thus I enjoy it more too as immersion is important to me. Real life has a meta too. And some people enjoy following that meta. E.g. to me a 60-hour/week job at some top company or government facility seems a bit too much for me, yet there are many people who love it. Different strokes for different folks.
And no I wouldn’t lose that bet, I wasn’t talking about casuals. I specifically stated those who engage in high level PvE. Ask any DnT or rT member if they would like competitions in raid like enviroments. Be it world first or some other kind of leaderboard/challenge (maybe something like fractal leaderboards anet promised eons ago). All of them would love to see that.
Raiding will be in the game. Regardless of what happened in the CDI thread anet will have learned from it that there is most likely more demand for raids than originally thought. Why would they hire raid designers if they don’t plan on releasing some form of raid type content. I’m not expecting a wow style of raiding but definitely expect PvE content aimed at organized groups of players beyond the current 5-mans that we have.
And yeah, massive topic derailing here but OP already had his question answered a page or two back. Nothing left to discuss. Topic can be closed imo.
@Windsagio
You can post your reply in that thread if you wish. I’ll be done in this one they can merge or close idc.
If you think they’re going to do raids when they’ve abandoned 5man, not sure what to say :p
And no I wouldn’t lose that bet, I wasn’t talking about casuals. I specifically stated those who engage in high level PvE. Ask any DnT or rT member if they would like competitions in raid like enviroments. Be it world first or some other kind of leaderboard/challenge (maybe something like fractal leaderboards anet promised eons ago). All of them would love to see that.
Absolutely no one wanted to see fractal leaderboards. They were the biggest laughing stock the dungeon forum had ever seen. You’re just wrong. Why don’t you meander over there to the dungeon forums and ask people “who wants to see fractal leaderboards?”
Edit: To be fair to your point, the dungeon community (not sure who in particular, but kudos to whoever did the work) did set up a record keeping site to see who could complete dungeons fastest.
(edited by Nevets Crimsonwing.5271)
Alot of time has passed since then and many more people are engaging in high level pve content than back when anet promised fractal leaderboards. Probably still a small minority i’m sure but that minority has grown. You point out yourself the record keeping site so I’d say that speaks for itself.
As for if raids are coming or not. I suppose it depends on your definition of a raid. Like I said, I don’t expect wow-type raids. But one could argue wurm is a raid. If you do it as a guild and have the map to yourself it’s essentially an instance for you and your guild group. If they were to add a handful of those type of fights I would call that raids.
If they were specifically designed as an instanced fight rather than open world I’d definitely call it raids. Raids is nothing more than a large organized group engaging in a bossfight and completing objectives. Compare Molten Core to ToT. Molten Core bosses right now are hardly more difficult than something like the myriad of press 1111 world bosses that we have in this game. The breachmaker fight could be considered a raid too. They will probably never be designed as hard as raids in other games as in this game all content needs to be reachable for the vast majority of the playerbase. As such, competitive PvE’rs will most likely focus on clearspeeds like they do now with dungeons. That is fine with me. But then at least we can go in with larger groups than just 5 people.
Raiding will be in the game. Regardless of what happened in the CDI thread anet will have learned from it that there is most likely more demand for raids than originally thought.
If there’s one thing they have learned, is that the people interested in raids cannot agree on even one, single thing when trying to discuss how those raids should look like. So, yeah, “Raiding” might eventually make its way into the game, but will it be something people asking for raids would recognize as one? That is uncertain – most likely we won’t see anything like WoW raids here, at the very least.
Why would they hire raid designers if they don’t plan on releasing some form of raid type content. I’m not expecting a wow style of raiding but definitely expect PvE content aimed at organized groups of players beyond the current 5-mans that we have.
Yes, we know they planned to introduce more bosses like Tequatl or Three-headed wurm. The ad might have been posted with those in mind (and we don’t even know if they have actually hired anyone for that position).
Actions, not words.
Remember, remember, 15th of November
Remember, remember, 15th of November
Luckily, Anet does not depend on us telling them what to do. CDI’s serve as little more than inspiration imo (very broad generalisation yes i know i know some CDI’s were very useful). Anet will always do what is best for coins, attracting and keeping players and pleasing the majority of the playerbase. Any content added will have to meet the above criteria. So yes, if raids or raid-type encounter are added in greater number or frequence they will probably look alot different than we want or expect. But I will still try them out and people are sick and tired of the same dungeons and fractals now too, yet we all still run them. New content alone would be enough hype to sink our teeth in some new PvE stuff.
Funny how you accuse me of straw manning and then come up with this. You don’t stack on those fights, do you? Then why would my statement apply to those?
Sorry, but you’re not getting away from this that easily. Not when multiple others in this thread have taken your very point and ignorantly generalized zerker gear to all content in this game. Barring an admission that you’ve not read the thread up to now, or that you fail to understand the significance of context, I don’t think it was unreasonable to assume you held similar or identical ignorant views.
On the topic of easy dungeons, the elite PvE runners in this game have most dungeons on such a robotic farm with near perfect rotations that they could probably write a bot to do things for them. It is these easy dungeons that DPS meters wouldn’t apply to for most of us.
DPS meters probably wouldn’t even apply to high level fractals anyway, because the gear requirements and agony mechanics already serve that purpose.
And please stop strawmanning DPS meters a position where they are solely used to filter people. It is these tougher fights where things become more unpredictable and rotations more mixed, where it can be beneficial to test different weapons, traits, and rotations.
We get that some people will try to misuse them, but last I checked ANet does not and should not create its content according to what trolls might do (check Copper/Gold/Silver bosses in the Silverwastes as a prime example).
And just like now, you can avoid all that filthy elitist toxicity by just creating your own group
Content in this game will always seem
to be faceroll at the high levels, because it
needs to be accessible to the casuals and bads.
to be faceroll at the high levels, because it
needs to be accessible to the casuals and bads.
The thing I’d continually ask people to do is get out of our own heads and think of it from Arenanet’s POV.
Granting that some of the people on here would use such a tool, try to think of it from their pov, especially given that even a small feature isn’t free.
The core points I can see Anet caring about are:
1) How many players will use this tool?
2) How many players will use this tool destructively?
[/quote]
It’s ok that you’re new. Everyone is at some point. I’d just advise being knowledgeable about what you’re talking about before you insult lots of people with what is nothing more than spluttering nonsense.[/quote]
@ Nevits
Thank you for showing you have no idea what your talking about. I was an avid player of gw1. And have been playing gw2 since the first day it was released. And even took part in the beta. Sadly I know all too well what im talking about.
Namely when the game first came out people hadn’t discovered the stack locations or the zerker meta yet. They weren’t aware that using these would slice through nearly every fight in the game (there are SOME that were designed seemingly to prevent stacking…cudos to anet for these becuase there the fights where people are actually active)
What this meant is that people entered dungeons in the gear of there choice and the playstyle of there choice and fought bosses. They were forced to actually learn the boss mechanics where as players today don’t even know what most of the encounters in COF actually do. (With the exception of one where your FORCED to utuilize the boss mechanic)
In other words. The people playing the non-meta builds actually had to work harder and with more situational awareness than any meta zerk group. They learned what attacks could be soaked and what attacks could be mitigated. What needed to be blocked and reflected and what could be avoided.
All this eventually led to people experimenting with difference places to fight the boss. And they realized that certain bosses simply wont use there most dangerous mechanics if the entire group is in a certain location (Spider Queen is a big example of this before it was changed)
Once this was realized it didn’t take long before they realized they could make the fight even EASIER by maxing there dps at close range through boons so that they could burn through a boss before they ran out of active defense which they could get away with now that positioning and avoiding boss cc skills was no longer an issue. Anything that did get through there active defense could be dodged into a corner. (Because somehow rolling in a corners gonna save you from the giant fiery spike of death hanging over your head…much less five of them)
Maybe its you that should learn what your talking about before commenting. The meta wasn’t made to make the game more interesting or more fun. It was made because its the easiest way to make it through a dungeon in the fastest time. Thats all it is. And all it ever was. A way of making the game require LESS skill not more.
Ghost Yak
(edited by Shadelang.3012)
It’s ok that you’re new. Everyone is at some point. I’d just advise being knowledgeable about what you’re talking about before you insult lots of people with what is nothing more than spluttering nonsense.
@ Nevits
Thank you for showing you have no idea what your talking about. I was an avid player of gw1. And have been playing gw2 since the first day it was released. And even took part in the beta. Sadly I know all too well what im talking about.
Namely when the game first came out people hadn’t discovered the stack locations or the zerker meta yet. They weren’t aware that using these would slice through nearly every fight in the game (there are SOME that were designed seemingly to prevent stacking…cudos to anet for these becuase there the fights where people are actually active)
What this meant is that people entered dungeons in the gear of there choice and the playstyle of there choice and fought bosses. They were forced to actually learn the boss mechanics where as players today don’t even know what most of the encounters in COF actually do. (With the exception of one where your FORCED to utuilize the boss mechanic)
In other words. The people playing the non-meta builds actually had to work harder and with more situational awareness than any meta zerk group. They learned what attacks could be soaked and what attacks could be mitigated. What needed to be blocked and reflected and what could be avoided.
All this eventually led to people experimenting with difference places to fight the boss. And they realized that certain bosses simply wont use there most dangerous mechanics if the entire group is in a certain location (Spider Queen is a big example of this before it was changed)
Once this was realized it didn’t take long before they realized they could make the fight even EASIER by maxing there dps at close range through boons so that they could burn through a boss before they ran out of active defense which they could get away with now that positioning and avoiding boss cc skills was no longer an issue. Anything that did get through there active defense could be dodged into a corner. (Because somehow rolling in a corners gonna save you from the giant fiery spike of death hanging over your head…much less five of them)
Maybe its you that should learn what your talking about before commenting. The meta wasn’t made to make the game more interesting or more fun. It was made because its the easiest way to make it through a dungeon in the fastest time. Thats all it is. And all it ever was. A way of making the game require LESS skill not more.
Again, please learn why people stack. Hint: The vast majority of enemies still attack and use their programmed mechanics against a stacked group.
hey guiz, non-zerk build is such hard mang, just watch this video
go to 30 minute to see the true beauty and mad skeelz of the non-zerk.
Also its hilarious that people think zerk and stack are the same thing, they are not. A full nomad party can stack and do the kitten you said they would do and still be just as effective, just slower.
Another thing is real speedrun group rarely stacks, in fact only the ill-informed pugs continue to stack in places that doesn’t need to be stacked.
(edited by Lifestealer.4910)
Again, please learn why people stack. Hint: The vast majority of enemies still attack and use their programmed mechanics against a stacked group.
Gotta go with shade on this one, stacking and active defenses work so well together. If people aren’t intending to take advantage of the fact that things like ae blinds are better in a forced compact area, then teh real reasons they do it must be totally insane.
@Nevets If you read what I posted youd see I know why people stack. To share boons such as might and fury to burn through the boss faster lowering the risk of the encounter.
Incidental reasons that stack lovers like to cling to :The ability to instantly rez a downed player. Lowering the risk of the encounter
The ability to blast relevant fields such as water. Lowering the risk of the encounter.
The ability to mitigate the effects of bosses ccs. Lowering hte risk of the encounter
The ability to combine telegraphed player targeted aoes. Lowering the risk of the encounter as long as someone remembers where there dodge button is.
These are all intelligent decisions. I have no problem with calling htem that. What I have a problem with is when people claim this is the most skillful mode of play. And that anyone who doesn’t do it this way is inherently bad.
It is not the most skillful mode of play. Its the most effective. There is a significant difference between the two.
Ghost Yak
Also its hilarious that people think zerk and stack are the same thing, they are not. A full nomad party can stack and do the kitten you said they would do and still be just as effective, just slower.
Another thing is real speedrun group rarely stacks, in fact only the ill-informed pugs continue to stack in places that doesn’t need to be stacked.
What you do in your private l33t groups isn’t relevant to the discussion though. "Zerk meta’ pugs stack.
hey guiz, non-zerk build is such hard mang, just watch this video
go to 30 minute to see the true beauty and mad skeelz of the non-zerk.
Also its hilarious that people think zerk and stack are the same thing, they are not. A full nomad party can stack and do the kitten you said they would do and still be just as effective, just slower.
Another thing is real speedrun group rarely stacks, in fact only the ill-informed pugs continue to stack in places that doesn’t need to be stacked.
Lifestealer I actually agree with you. The majority of actualy speedrun groups ive taken place in only stacked momentarily before each boss for boon stacking. But then. The whole idea behind a speed run for a dungeon is that the most efficient method of doing the dungeon has already been found. I.E. People no longer see it as an accomplishment and only as a method of making gold. A speed run attempts to shorten the minimum completion time by a bit more.
The vast majority of “meta zerk” groups ive been in however. Seem terrified to leave a corner.
Ghost Yak
@Nevets If you read what I posted youd see I know why people stack. To share boons such as might and fury to burn through the boss faster lowering the risk of the encounter.
Incidental reasons that stack lovers like to cling to :The ability to instantly rez a downed player. Lowering the risk of the encounter
The ability to blast relevant fields such as water. Lowering the risk of the encounter.
The ability to mitigate the effects of bosses ccs. Lowering hte risk of the encounter
The ability to combine telegraphed player targeted aoes. Lowering the risk of the encounter as long as someone remembers where there dodge button is.
These are all intelligent decisions. I have no problem with calling htem that. What I have a problem with is when people claim this is the most skillful mode of play. And that anyone who doesn’t do it this way is inherently bad.
It is not the most skillful mode of play. Its the most effective. There is a significant difference between the two.
This is a better answer. Lots of people think enemies don’t attack you in a stack. You hinted at the reason why with the spider queen earlier. The reality is the vast majority of the time enemies will still attack your stack.
This is the most effective way to play, and it’s far less to do with dungeon design than design of boons, buffs, aoe etc. So things like changing the way the spider queen works don’t really alleviate the issue. What would alleviate “stacking” would be to redefine how aoe boons, buffs, attacks work.
Regarding your comment about skillful vs. effective play: Who would have an easier time on a golf course, Tiger Woods or some random teenager? Tiger. Because he plays the game better. He’s more skilled and thus more effective. You can of course challenge yourself by going naked, not stacking, not dodging, role play walking, whatever. Just as Tiger Woods could golf with bamboo rods or hockey sticks. That doesn’t make him more skilled or effective. I don’t know what that makes him actually… but those two words aren’t appropriate I don’t think.
@Nevets If you read what I posted youd see I know why people stack. To share boons such as might and fury to burn through the boss faster lowering the risk of the encounter.
Incidental reasons that stack lovers like to cling to :The ability to instantly rez a downed player. Lowering the risk of the encounter
The ability to blast relevant fields such as water. Lowering the risk of the encounter.
The ability to mitigate the effects of bosses ccs. Lowering hte risk of the encounter
The ability to combine telegraphed player targeted aoes. Lowering the risk of the encounter as long as someone remembers where there dodge button is.
These are all intelligent decisions. I have no problem with calling htem that. What I have a problem with is when people claim this is the most skillful mode of play. And that anyone who doesn’t do it this way is inherently bad.
It is not the most skillful mode of play. Its the most effective. There is a significant difference between the two.
This is a better answer. Lots of people think enemies don’t attack you in a stack. You hinted at the reason why with the spider queen earlier. The reality is the vast majority of the time enemies will still attack your stack.
This is the most effective way to play, and it’s far less to do with dungeon design than design of boons, buffs, aoe etc. So things like changing the way the spider queen works don’t really alleviate the issue. What would alleviate “stacking” would be to redefine how aoe boons, buffs, attacks work.
Regarding your comment about skillful vs. effective play: Who would have an easier time on a golf course, Tiger Woods or some random teenager? Tiger. Because he plays the game better. He’s more skilled and thus more effective. You can of course challenge yourself by going naked, not stacking, not dodging, role play walking, whatever. Just as Tiger Woods could golf with bamboo rods or hockey sticks. That doesn’t make him more skilled or effective. I don’t know what that makes him actually… but those two words aren’t appropriate I don’t think.
Your comparison to tiger woods gave me food for thought. this is the conclusion I came to. If every dungeon is a golf course. Then different gear choices are different starting points. Something youl never see in a gold competition. Different gear gives you different capabilities. Skill is what you do with that capability.
In this case zerk puts every single competitor right on the hole. At this point it doesnt matter if its tiger woods or a complete amateur almost anyone can make it.
Ghost Yak
In this case zerk puts every single competitor right on the hole. At this point it doesnt matter if its tiger woods or a complete amateur almost anyone can make it.
I’m still waiting for an explanation of how to ez-mode Archdiviner in Fractal 37/49/50 with a full zerker melee/meta group.
It seems like I’m doing it wrong, because I actually have to kite a bit, watch his tells, and even react to those tells! But you seem to know some way to trivialize this encounter so that I win the moment I put on glass cannon gear!
Please share so I can share this newfound discovery with my friends and whoever I group with.
Content in this game will always seem
to be faceroll at the high levels, because it
needs to be accessible to the casuals and bads.
to be faceroll at the high levels, because it
needs to be accessible to the casuals and bads.
In this case zerk puts every single competitor right on the hole. At this point it doesnt matter if its tiger woods or a complete amateur almost anyone can make it.
I’m still waiting for an explanation of how to ez-mode Archdiviner in Fractal 37/49/50 with a full zerker melee/meta group.
It seems like I’m doing it wrong, because I actually have to kite a bit, watch his tells, and even react to those tells! But you seem to know some way to trivialize this encounter so that I win the moment I put on glass cannon gear!
Please share so I can share this newfound discovery with my friends and whoever I group with.
Dave. I didnt respond because the zerk meta which were discussing exists primarily in Dungeons. In fractals I often see a wider range of builds and playstyles because there knowledge of positioning and mechanics is more important than gear choice. And many of the fights are designed in ways that punish stacking specifically. But if you want ot use fractals specifically.
Remember the mossman glitch? Where you dragged him into the water and were able to actively able to stack in a place where you could shoot him without being attacked by him due to a fault in his programming?
To be clear. The reason I havnt brought up fractals is for the same reason I havn’t brought up actual speed runners. (the ones progressively working towards shorter and shorter times on dungeon completions)
Because there separate situations. A speed group =/= a meta-zerk only group. Most speed runners I know use personal builds tailored specifically to fill a gap in there groups comp. While they use zerk gear primarily. They also find ways to make it through using far more individual effort than the average zerk group. I respect speed runners in nearly any game. Seeing as I was one when I was in WoW for the majority of my teenage life.
Fractal runners are also a different group. As the base design of the encounters themselves take alot of choice out of the players hands. Forcing the players to cope and deal with the bosses dangerous mechanics upfront.
I wish the dungeons outside of fractals also forced the players to COPE with mechanics instead of finding ways of bypassing them. HOWEVER I still don’t mind when people choose to cheese through a dungeon fight. As I said before its when people claim that there inherintly better than another player simply because they hold to the zerk meta. When the zerk meta is simply the most cost effective way to bypass dungeon content and not by its nature the most skillful.
Ghost Yak
I’m still waiting for an explanation of how to ez-mode Archdiviner in Fractal 37/49/50 with a full zerker melee/meta group.
Well, wearing zerkers does not make the encounter any more dangerous at those levels, and it definitely lasts way shorter than in, say, Nomads. Sounds like a lower difficulty level to me.
Actions, not words.
Remember, remember, 15th of November
Remember, remember, 15th of November
I’m still waiting for an explanation of how to ez-mode Archdiviner in Fractal 37/49/50 with a full zerker melee/meta group.
Well, wearing zerkers does not make the encounter any more dangerous at those levels, and it definitely lasts way shorter than in, say, Nomads. Sounds like a lower difficulty level to me.
What one shots you in zerker in higher level fractals does not one shot you in defensive gear. At least not at level 50. Also, for a better example, see the lupicus solo in cleric’s that was listed earlier. He facetanked the whole fight.
I’m still waiting for an explanation of how to ez-mode Archdiviner in Fractal 37/49/50 with a full zerker melee/meta group.
Well, wearing zerkers does not make the encounter any more dangerous at those levels, and it definitely lasts way shorter than in, say, Nomads. Sounds like a lower difficulty level to me.
What one shots you in zerker in higher level fractals does not one shot you in defensive gear. At least not at level 50. Also, for a better example, see the lupicus solo in cleric’s that was listed earlier. He facetanked the whole fight.
This I have to give to Nev in part. Fractals are the only place infact where you can get away with using non zerker armor. Becuase its one of the only areas where taking damage is kitten near guaranteed. At that point at the higher levels it becomes a case of (Do what you need to to stay alive and kill the kitten) Which is a big part of why I separate high frac runners and other dungeon runners. Although the general consensus in fractals is STILL (go as glass as you can). In this case though im fine with it with the way fractal fights are designed. There mechanics are upfront. Its difficult for players to negate or avoid them and takes the choice of negating part of the fight away from them. My only issue is that the mechanics are not terribly varied once you have the Proper A.R. and it loses alot of the challenge.
Some of my favorite bosses are the fractal molten twins. You can stack on the beggining of that fight with the right comp. But theres a very good chance of something not going quite right on that fight. So spreading out is still the better option there. And stacking doesnt allow you to burn through the fight completely unless you bring a TONNNN of reflects/absorbs.
However on the cleric lupicus thing. What you have there is the other extreme. Its also something alot of people love to post thinking it proves that the meta-zerk=pro player mentality is right when really there just pointing at the exact opposite (which means its really the same thing but in a different configuration…. Which isn’t the goal of 99.9999999% of the playerbase that dislikes the current stack/zerk meta in dungeons. There looking for a middle ground between the two. If the meta was “5 Full Cleric guardian ping or kick” you can bet your kitten id be here talking kitten about that too.
Edit: @ Dave I might add that five bloodshroud necros turn the arch diviner fight even at lvl 50 into a cakewalk. I meen it makes the fight absolutely pathetically easy. I did it as a joke one day and omfg we didn’t realize how OP that setup was for that one specific fight.
Ghost Yak
(edited by Shadelang.3012)
This I have to give to Nev in part. Fractals are the only place infact where you can get away with using non zerker armor.
“Can get away with?” Whole problem in a nutshell :p
And further showing why Meters are a bad idea. If we have attitudes like this, you don’t want these folks making even more granular judgements on other people.
I wish the dungeons outside of fractals also forced the players to COPE with mechanics instead of finding ways of bypassing them.
You’d have a dead dungeon community if you extended that sort of difficulty outside Fractals and Arah.
Things like AC and CoF are to dungeons what the Shatterer and Fire Elemental are to world bosses. Not everything has to be like Fractals and Tequatl, and a variety of difficulty is not bad for the game.
I do completely agree that “zerker meta” is run in low level dungeons for ease as much as for speed. But this does not extend to higher level encounters like Arah and Fractals, where it takes considerably more experience/practice/skill to maintain HP and DPS meleeing in glass gear (although it is possible to do so in virtually every encounter, and definitely optimal for any player who is able to)
Content in this game will always seem
to be faceroll at the high levels, because it
needs to be accessible to the casuals and bads.
to be faceroll at the high levels, because it
needs to be accessible to the casuals and bads.
I wish the dungeons outside of fractals also forced the players to COPE with mechanics instead of finding ways of bypassing them.
You’d have a dead dungeon community if you extended that sort of difficulty outside Fractals and Arah.
Things like AC and CoF are to dungeons what the Shatterer and Fire Elemental are to world bosses. Not everything has to be like Fractals and Tequatl, and a variety of difficulty is not bad for the game.
I do completely agree that “zerker meta” is run in low level dungeons for ease as much as for speed. But this does not extend to higher level encounters like Arah and Fractals, where it takes considerably more experience/practice/skill to maintain HP and DPS meleeing in glass gear (although it is possible to do so in virtually every encounter, and definitely optimal for any player who is able to)
As I said. I hold fractals to be seperate from dungeons. And even arah has methods of bypassing the more dangerous mechanics and even SKIPPING entire an entire boss on one of htose paths because hes simply not worth the trouble to kill. These are things that nearly EVERY arah run does as a normal part of the run.
I agree that bringing dungeons up to fractal level would kill the dungeon community. The current dungeon runners simply aren’t in the right mindset for it. Again. As I said before. It isn’t the use of zerk as the primary gear set that bothers me. When the entire class trinity was combined into a single character it was guaranteed to happen. What bothers me is overriding opinion that zerk players are automatically more skilled or active players than non zerk players. When zerk is chosen as the meta for the sole reason that its the easiest way to do a dungeon run.
Skill isn’t really a factor here. As people with very low skill can zerk run most dungeon paths and bosses. Im absolutely certain there are high skill zerk runners. The speed runners are some of those. The ACTUAL speed runners that seek to break there own and other records. However for the average zerk-meta pug. A person whos played the game for less than a month is just as good as a person whos been playing and experimenting from the release date. Simply because there isn’t any real way for them to PROVE there skill when in these specific groups where everyone simply does the same thing as everyone else becuase..again. its the EASIEST route.
If someone wants to impress me outside of setting a new record. Id suggest them fighting every boss in the game in apothecary gear using a power build. There whole team. THEN id be impressed. Because they start with kittenty tools and STILL accomplish there goal with it.
Ghost Yak
Reading this thread it reminds me of the same old kitten that I used to see in GW1 when Ursan was like “the only way you could do dungeons” (the statement is dripping with sarcasm if you don’t know)… It wasn’t, far from it, but it was the easiest, most mindless, and least skill required way. People that used it called that being a good player, when really, it meant you were only capable of the simplest, least challenging way to do something.
Same with the zerker mentality. The difference between 30 seconds on a fight and 40 is entirely in an anal retentive person’s head, in reality it doesn’t matter. You really do see two very different sets of players, those who think doing everything as fast as possible with no challenge is awesome, and those who enjoy the challenges and don’t just look for loopholes to avoid any challenge. A lot of people enjoy playing the dungeons as the challenges they are, not as a speed run past everything possible, skipping the whole kitten thing… But that’s “playing bad” because you’re not obsessed with ignoring as much content as possible…
The assertion that players are bad because they want to actually play the content instead of avoiding it all is wrong. Players that fail to succeed in whatever content they do may be bad, but choosing to play it because you enjoy playing the content is far from it. It’s simply not obsessive.
I still remember soloing fractals up to Mai Trin, practicing it a bit and then putting a lfg so 4 random guys could get a reward for free. No restrictions, no requirements.
Only to have them faceplant in about 30 seconds and me getting kicked in about 15 seconds without any warning because they wanted to retry. And when I asked why would they kick me and destroy the instance when I had spend hours soloing it I get answered “because you didn’t talk to us”. Yeah sure, I will do some casual chit chat when I’m on low health and fighting to survive.
So based on this, I rather keep “elitist” requirements to weed out “non-toxic”, “relaxed” and “respectful” people like these.
I still remember soloing fractals up to Mai Trin, practicing it a bit and then putting a lfg so 4 random guys could get a reward for free. No restrictions, no requirements.
Only to have them faceplant in about 30 seconds and me getting kicked in about 15 seconds without any warning because they wanted to retry. And when I asked why would they kick me and destroy the instance when I had spend hours soloing it I get answered “because you didn’t talk to us”. Yeah sure, I will do some casual chit chat when I’m on low health and fighting to survive.
So based on this, I rather keep “elitist” requirements to weed out “non-toxic”, “relaxed” and “respectful” people like these.
I’m sorry, that story just doesn’t parse.