Guild Wars 2

viralthefrog.6130:

Anet silence: People complain that they aren’t getting answers.
Anet gives an answer: People complain because they didn’t get exactly what they want, because “blah blah, I’m entitled to it, I don’t care about anyone else, blah blah blah”.

Maybe you could provide a link to one of these answers?

From what I gather, on these forums (especially this thread) people are looking for one of two definitive responses.

A) We made some mistakes with the town clothes and/or megaserver patch, but we have plans to fix them in the future.

- or -

B) This patch is how things are going to be, and we’re going to have to put our foot down regarding any future adjustments.

It would really give us an idea of what to expect going forward. I’m sure I’m not the only one who is wondering if I should give Guild Wars 2 more time to repair itself, or if it’s a lost cause?

The closest thing I’ve found to an answer is that there was a link to a community manager in Germany who had some vague points on how the megaservers might be handled in the future, which is good. But from the USA there is no response from Anet at all.
You can understand how some of us might be a little flabbergasted that we would have to go translate a foreign language to get some sort of an update. It makes people think, "Is this legit? If it is, why don’t they post it in English on the English forums?

And I can find nothing about what they are thinking regarding the single-piece town clothes. Dead silence there.
I, personally, care more about this issue than the megaserver, but that’s my personal opinion. Both problems deserve a response.

So, a link to the answers you say that Anet gave? It would be most appreciated, as I haven’t been able to find it on my own.

• And I mean an Anet employee answer. Not some random player with their own guess (which includes both of us) about what the future will bring. There’s more than enough of that around here.

viralthefrog.6130:

I have yet to see a single person complain in-game about the megaservers.

I have yet to see Idaho.

Pretty sure it exists anyway.

Porterhouse.6304:

Im Mudbone.1437:

viralthefrog.6130:

I have yet to see a single person complain in-game about the megaservers.
Nothing but indifference and love for it.

Then you must not be watching very good or have selective reading, i’m on blackgate(which don’t mean much since megaserver just makes us one big server) where I see the ranting in every zone/city I go to.

It’s funny that you mention that, because I remember that Blackgate was the server every other server would Guest into in order to complete special events, and the native Blackgatonians hated it!

I can only imagine what they think of being mixed into the great megaserver blender. =D

Oh yes, it’s pandamonium at times. -LOL

Palador.2170:

TheDaiBish.9735:

If they did say ‘we are aware of the issues and are looking into it’, do you honestly believe that people would stop posting / whining about the same thing on a daily basis?

No.

But what if they said “We’re open to ideas, but parts A, B, and C are not going to be open to change. What can we do to parts D and E to make this work better?”, they might get more useful feedback.

They will also get tons of comments from people that want A, B or C. Asking why they are not being treated " fairly" or they might feel that only players that want D, or E are being listened to bla bla bla…

Sometimes the best thing is silence.

Nerelith.7360:

Palador.2170:

TheDaiBish.9735:

If they did say ‘we are aware of the issues and are looking into it’, do you honestly believe that people would stop posting / whining about the same thing on a daily basis?

No.

But what if they said “We’re open to ideas, but parts A, B, and C are not going to be open to change. What can we do to parts D and E to make this work better?”, they might get more useful feedback.

They will also get tons of comments from people that want A, B or C. Asking why they are not being treated " fairly" or they might feel that only players that want D, or E are being listened to bla bla bla…

Sometimes the best thing is silence.

Not in my case- I wanted any reply so that I can make up my mind if Anet has my interests at heart.
Since someone kindly linked me the German community response, I know that they do not.

Much as I have loved this game in the 2 years I have been playing it everyday- I will now no longer do so until Megserver returns my experience to me- if it cannot or will not, I have to call it a day.

Today I got a beta key for another game that I previously had no interest in because I was invested in GW2- now, I am in the market for a new game.

So yes- a response did help me.

Actually, seems like they can’t shut up.

You aren’t wanting answers—plenty of those with all the patch press—but instead want a red name to acknowledge whatever the latest life-shattering grievance is in your video game. That isn’t feedback so much as pouting. I cannot imagine why they aren’t breaking down the gates to listen to that.

Morrigan.2809:

Nerelith.7360:

Palador.2170:

But what if they said “We’re open to ideas, but parts A, B, and C are not going to be open to change. What can we do to parts D and E to make this work better?”, they might get more useful feedback.

They will also get tons of comments from people that want A, B or C. Asking why they are not being treated " fairly" or they might feel that only players that want D, or E are being listened to bla bla bla…

Sometimes the best thing is silence.

Not in my case- I wanted any reply so that I can make up my mind if Anet has my interests at heart.
Since someone kindly linked me the German community response, I know that they do not.

Much as I have loved this game in the 2 years I have been playing it everyday- I will now no longer do so until Megserver returns my experience to me- if it cannot or will not, I have to call it a day.

Today I got a beta key for another game that I previously had no interest in because I was invested in GW2- now, I am in the market for a new game.

Indeed, a lot of people just want to hear something precise and clear.
Why do we wait for an answer? Because GW2 pre-Megaserver was a good game and we want to keep playing it, so we hope as Morrigan says, that they will return our experience to us. If they do not, fine, there are other games.
A clear answer on whether and how they want to address the multiple issues raised by the community will decide stay or go for a lot of people. Silence does not make the problem go away.

Aidan Savage.2078:

Players complain when Anet says nothing.
Players complain when Anet says something.
Players complain when Anet does anything.

There’s an easy to see pattern.

People Complain when Anet says the wrong thing.
People complain when Anet says the right thing but late.
People complain when Anet does the wrong thing, according to them.
People complain when Anet finally does the right thing according to them, but late.
People complain that what they did finally that was according to them needed, should have been in “On release”.

Maxite.6102:

Actually, seems like they can’t shut up.

You aren’t wanting answers—plenty of those with all the patch press—but instead want a red name to acknowledge whatever the latest life-shattering grievance is in your video game. That isn’t feedback so much as pouting. I cannot imagine why they aren’t breaking down the gates to listen to that.

so were are all these?
I don’t want them to hand me a tissue thanks.

I have been a pretty big supporter of both the game and Anet- so I don’t think you can accuse me of complaining every patch

Nothing I have seen have in any way implied that I will get back the game that I loved, since I no longer enjoy the game at all since Megaserver was introduced why should I play it?

Games are for fun- this game is no longer fun for me- end of story

Suddenflame.2601:

eisberg.2379:

Kallandra.2610:

Behellagh.1468:

What do you want, a broadcast in game of the patch notes?

Actually, that’s not a bad idea. A small pop up box when zoning in to the game with just a brief list of fixes (or a link to the relevant web page), or major things like “New language filter in Chat Options” or something like that, would actually work. A lot of MMORPG’s use that kind of thing to notify players of important things.

How about a frame that appears when first logging in, but before pressing the Play button that gives news about the game including the patch notes?

Its not Anets fault if the players do not check the forums for the patch updates. They knew there was a patch (hence the download) so while they are waiting for it to download they could you know actually read the patch notes? Players are humans therefor they are more than capable of going to the forums and reading the patch notes where they always been. No point in wasting resources for putting an ingame patch notes that the same people who couldnt waste the time to come to the forums will just ignore the patch notes already.

But but…. going to the forums to read patch notes means I would have to…..click..Links..and….read!!!!!!

The communication between Anet and their clients is the biggest letdown of this game..

they completly abandoned the community after the game came out.. and it used to be the opposite when beta testing i remember i used to tell my friends that anet looked so much better than other companys because they were answering to alot of people.. there was a great connection we were sure they would make a really good job after the game was launch..

but it was more and more and bigger disapointments everytime… but beign honest.. i alrdy gave up on it.. and i suppose this is how its going to be from now on..

Nage.1520:

Vlad Morbius.1759:

Nage.1520:

@Morrigan
More to the point, it’s been a week since the patch went up, during which time we’ve had several new builds, we’ve had a holiday weekend and we still have the China launch. I’m sure everyone is flat out.

This is the thing that leaves a really bad taste in my mouth and why I’ve been so upset with their course over the last couple of months. I totally agree that it is there product and they can do what they want with it but the fact of the matter is I am completely ticked off that the support I’ve given them through the gem shop has been rerouted into this. It is irresponsible and greedy to take away resources from players in NA and EU to push the China product through and there is no doubt that is exactly what has happened.

Why should we care about China and their release it means nothing to us as a players in NA or EU, except that they have taken potential content from us to pave the way for more sales in another country and the quality of what we have received has suffered. Had the resources not been pulled we would have had a major expansion by now. In my opinion this whole LS exercise was nothing but a clever ploy to keep us all placated while pulling the main force of the developers to complete the launch for China because there is no way that 300+ developers could only achieve the content given to us these last 18 months.

Once I realized this was the case I did the only thing I could do which was stop buying gems and as mentioned will keep my wallet closed until they release an expansion, we get the proper amount of support on current bugs and in game issues.

This is how all companies work. If I was in a store and opened a new store, the resources go to building that store. That’s how companies work. If not, no company would ever expand.

When companies expand it takes investment, which takes money, time and energy. If your’e mad about it you’re not only unrealistic but completely unfair.

Because when the cash flow from China hits that will massively benefit us. The money will go to upgrading the game as a whole, not just China.

It’s an investment for all of us.

Quoted For Truth

Frankly, they have nothing to gain from posting anything that is not in FINAL stages of implementation. Every comment any Devs makes on these forums (or anywhere on the Net) is twisted, selectively quoted (if not misquoted) while being improperly analyzed and interpreted by anyone with an agenda to promote (kind of like the RL press…hmmm).

While I would like to hear a few more, " we understand this issue is a concern of the player base and we are looking at possible action….stay tuned.", comments, I fully understand the “Speak No Evil”, mentality they have had of late. I don’t particularly like it, but I get it.

Nerelith.7360:

TheDaiBish.9735:

If they did say ‘we are aware of the issues and are looking into it’, do you honestly believe that people would stop posting / whining about the same thing on a daily basis?

Sometimes the best thing is silence.

I keep reading this – “it is best to remain silent”

It implies that the community manager(s) are great philosophical guru’s, old and wise. They know when it is best to say certain words, and when it is best to remain silent.
Which is fine if you want to think that.

None of us really know what’s going on over there so we kind of fill in the blanks as we go.

I keep picturing that all of the programmers took the day off to celebrate National Eggs Benedict Day and they haven’t come back yet. The only employee’s left are the forum moderator’s, because forum moderators are forsworn from eating eggs.
That’s probably not true. But at the same time it’s probably about as true as the guru thing.

This dead silence kind of makes the imagination run wild.

Maybe there is a gorilla running rampant through their data center and they are trying to coach it out with bananas.
Why don’t they tell us about the gorilla? Who can say.

It’s kind of hard to paint a picture of this situation when they won’t talk to us.

Brother Grimm.5176:

Frankly, they have nothing to gain from posting anything that is not in FINAL stages of implementation…

But what have they got to lose?

Porterhouse.6304:

Brother Grimm.5176:

Frankly, they have nothing to gain from posting anything that is not in FINAL stages of implementation…

But what have they got to lose?

Communicating information that will change, making them subject to hundreds of claims of “lying” by people who make hyperbolic charges like “all the programmers must be celebrating Eggs Benedict Day.”

Brother Grimm.5176:

Frankly, they have nothing to gain from posting anything that is not in FINAL stages of implementation.

Yes. On the other hand, they have something to lose by not posting. They can lose their players – and they are losing them. I personally knwo people that left the game not because it changed in a way they didn’t like, but because communication policy alone made them think that Anet either does not care about community, or doesn’t have a clue about what they are doing, or both. And frankly, i tend to slide more and more towards that last (“both”) opinion myself.

OP, you have no idea what real silence means. We are far from that situation. The only reason the devs and customer support are swamped right now is because they LISTENED to the community and implemented many, complicated far reaching yet awesome changes that take time to handle and properly adjust – based on constructive feedback – satisfactorily, often going customer by customer (duplicate gemstore items as a result of the wardrobe, for instance takes seas of time).

This thread is wrong. Just wrong.

Astralporing.1957:

Brother Grimm.5176:

Frankly, they have nothing to gain from posting anything that is not in FINAL stages of implementation.

Yes. On the other hand, they have something to lose by not posting. They can lose their players – and they are losing them. I personally knwo people that left the game not because it changed in a way they didn’t like, but because communication policy alone made them think that Anet either does not care about community, or doesn’t have a clue about what they are doing, or both. And frankly, i tend to slide more and more towards that last (“both”) opinion myself.

While I absolutely agree that communication is an area of comparatively poor performance for ArenaNet (in a lot of ways), quitting the game because the devs don’t show up on the forums and go, “yeah, we know?”

That makes me think these individuals didn’t like the game much to begin with and are just using this as a convenient excuse to leave.

I have to say, I normally cut MMO devs a LOT of slack. There are so many moving parts in these games that I honestly cannot even imagine support them.

That said, I do work in an IT dept that supports about 7000 clients and communication is CRITICAL for us to have a successful relationship with them. The Feature Patch has been out for a week, the various comment threads are into the 1000s of responses and not a peep out of any of the designers or managers.

Well, not stateside at least. The German CM actually gave some info recently:
http://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/23tdya/german_cm_ramon_domke_on_the_megaservergerman_gw2/

https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/the-megaserver-rollout-is-complete-2/

The Megaserver Rollout is Complete!
by The Guild Wars 2 Team on April 25, 2014

We’re pleased to announce that now all PvE maps and the Heart of the Mists have been moved over to megaserver technology!

Although we’re excited that you have more players than ever to explore the open world of Guild Wars 2 with, our work is not yet complete. Our megaserver team will continue to monitor the performance of the technology on live and evaluate your feedback. We will continue to tweak and update the way the system works until it is providing even better megaservice!

Thanks, and we’ll see you all (literally) in game!

There you go, not exactly satisfying IMO (I’d have preferred if they listed the areas that they were planning on tweaking) but they’ve said something at least.

uknortherner.2670:

People will moan regardless of what Anet says or does. Virtually all MMOs have their army of career complainers.

It’s not just in video games but all over the place. My locale college team’s former coach called them the “legions of the miserable”. Although it is true some just complain to complain others do so because they still care and want to see a game (team, company, political party, etc) do better. It shows they are still invested.

But like in sports all Anet has to do is start winning. Start implementing things the majority of the fan base wants and a lot of the negativity will fall into the background.

Prophet.6257:

But like in sports all Anet has to do is start winning. Start implementing things the majority of the fan base wants and a lot of the negativity will fall into the background.

Wardrobe? Check.
Account-bound dyes? Check.
Underflow system? Check.
Free retraiting and repairs? Check.
Better rewards for PvP and non-Conquest maps? Check.

Are you sure the negativity will fall into the background? :-/

Brother Grimm.5176:

Frankly, they have nothing to gain from posting anything that is not in FINAL stages of implementation. Every comment any Devs makes on these forums (or anywhere on the Net) is twisted, selectively quoted (if not misquoted) while being improperly analyzed and interpreted by anyone with an agenda to promote (kind of like the RL press…hmmm).

While I would like to hear a few more, " we understand this issue is a concern of the player base and we are looking at possible action….stay tuned.", comments, I fully understand the “Speak No Evil”, mentality they have had of late. I don’t particularly like it, but I get it.

apparently anet doesnt have a good grasp of what sort of problems changes they make may generate for players. To be perfectly honest, from the inception of even the idea of a megaserver, the problems that arose were pretty obvious to people who play the game.
Will i be able to play with my guild?
what about world events?
what about dynamic world?
what about my community?

So if anet cant see some of these problems coming, they can save some development time by actually running some of what they are planning by players, before they end up with a big patch solution that doesnt solve the problems, or creates a bunch of new ones.

Even if they dont care for feedback, generally you will let a customer know what the expected timelines are for changes.

timmyf.1490:

Prophet.6257:

But like in sports all Anet has to do is start winning. Start implementing things the majority of the fan base wants and a lot of the negativity will fall into the background.

Wardrobe? Check.
Account-bound dyes? Check.
Underflow system? Check.
Free retraiting and repairs? Check.
Better rewards for PvP and non-Conquest maps? Check.

Are you sure the negativity will fall into the background? :-/

most of those issues are QOL issues.

the megaserver has created design and paradigm shifts, and day to day problems. So yeah for those that the megaserver totally altered their experience the other things are a small thing in comparison.

now if you arent community/guild oriented or prefer smaller world events/dynamic boss schedules, the patch is probably over all pretty good for you.

Oh yeah and if the trait system sucks for you, thats gonna make the whole game suck for you till you are 80 and fully traited.

Im Mudbone.1437:

viralthefrog.6130:

Anet silence: People complain that they aren’t getting answers.
Anet gives an answer: People complain because they didn’t get exactly what they want, because “blah blah, I’m entitled to it, I don’t care about anyone else, blah blah blah”.

Porterhouse.6304:

I… I don’t think we’re playing the same game.

I have yet to see a single person complain in-game about the megaservers.
Nothing but indifference and love for it.

Then you must not be watching very good or have selective reading, i’m on blackgate(which don’t mean much since megaserver just makes us one big server) where I see the ranting in every zone/city I go to.

Nope, I tend to read everything that I see in chat.

timmyf.1490:

Prophet.6257:

But like in sports all Anet has to do is start winning. Start implementing things the majority of the fan base wants and a lot of the negativity will fall into the background.

Wardrobe? Check.
Account-bound dyes? Check.
Underflow system? Check.
Free retraiting and repairs? Check.
Better rewards for PvP and non-Conquest maps? Check.

Are you sure the negativity will fall into the background? :-/

All of those (with the possible exception of the last one – not being PvP player, i wouldn’t know) were either implemented in a way that significantly differed from what was suggested, or were tied to some strictly negative changes, or both. Don’t you think it might be possible, that if they were implemented the way the proposers wanted the reaction would have been different?

viralthefrog.6130:

Nope, I tend to read everything that I see in chat.

Then we’re definitely playing a different game.

at least we are getting up dates in terms of what season it is in game now from the last gem store post. I dont know when there will be new content but I am really just happy if they will release some past store items in the filler time so when the new content is out we can be all geared up in the way we want to look.

Astralporing.1957:

timmyf.1490:

Prophet.6257:

But like in sports all Anet has to do is start winning. Start implementing things the majority of the fan base wants and a lot of the negativity will fall into the background.

Wardrobe? Check.
Account-bound dyes? Check.
Underflow system? Check.
Free retraiting and repairs? Check.
Better rewards for PvP and non-Conquest maps? Check.

Are you sure the negativity will fall into the background? :-/

All of those (with the possible exception of the last one – not being PvP player, i wouldn’t know) were either implemented in a way that significantly differed from what was suggested, or were tied to some strictly negative changes, or both. Don’t you think it might be possible, that if they were implemented the way the proposers wanted the reaction would have been different?

Of course! And then a different group of people would have been upset. You can’t please everybody, especially when everybody has the anonymity to show up on message boards and whine about it.

I have been saying this for a while. But usually if we would hear more from anet on more sensitive subject and have a ’’True’’ Discussion about these topics then I am pretty sure everyone would be happy.

Basically there is no possible way for this game to improve if its players feel like the dev do not care about all the suggestions being made.

And for sure, some will be happy and some will not. But the silence has to end.

timmyf.1490:

Astralporing.1957:

Brother Grimm.5176:

Frankly, they have nothing to gain from posting anything that is not in FINAL stages of implementation.

Yes. On the other hand, they have something to lose by not posting. They can lose their players – and they are losing them. I personally knwo people that left the game not because it changed in a way they didn’t like, but because communication policy alone made them think that Anet either does not care about community, or doesn’t have a clue about what they are doing, or both. And frankly, i tend to slide more and more towards that last (“both”) opinion myself.

While I absolutely agree that communication is an area of comparatively poor performance for ArenaNet (in a lot of ways), quitting the game because the devs don’t show up on the forums and go, “yeah, we know?”

That makes me think these individuals didn’t like the game much to begin with and are just using this as a convenient excuse to leave.

Thanks….now I want Eggs Benedict and I want to go to the zoo to look at gorillas.
If I run into some Anet devs at the zoo eating some breakfast(or even brunch!) I will let you know.

I’ve read through a few pages of this topic and it’s quite stimulating. I definitely feel that if ANet would talk to us more that the community wouldn’t be as toxic toward them, and each other.

A prime example is The Secret World. That game isn’t in the best of conditions, and it has a small playerbase. Although the game isn’t bug free by any extent or very well balanced at all, the admins communicate with the playerbase quite regularly and it creates an open and friendly environment in a game that needs MANY improvements.

If in fact admins need to have all their posts approved before they can post, then that’s a shame. That rule is crippling. I would hate to be on a team of people that I’d have to get my messages approved by my manager before I can even talk about something upsetting the community.

To change the community, we have to change their stifling rules.

Sadly after 10 days, we’ve yet to receive any word (at least on the NA server) about any issues that players have expressed. Yes, there have been replies to tickets about hacked accounts, as well matters such as that. It would be detrimental to the community if this silence continues after the offical China release. Even a platitude of “we have read your concerns and are working towards your continued support” would be nice. Anet’s silence is deafening.

Buttercup.5871:

The only reason the devs and customer support are swamped right now is because they LISTENED to the community and implemented many, complicated far reaching yet awesome changes that take time to handle and properly adjust – based on constructive feedback – satisfactorily, often going customer by customer

Who requested that that all of the town clothes be turned into tonics? O_o

Porterhouse.6304:

Buttercup.5871:

The only reason the devs and customer support are swamped right now is because they LISTENED to the community and implemented many, complicated far reaching yet awesome changes that take time to handle and properly adjust – based on constructive feedback – satisfactorily, often going customer by customer

Who requested that that all of the town clothes be turned into tonics? O_o

^^^^^^^^^^^^^I’d like to know what was in their minds when that crap was thought up.

timmyf.1490:

Porterhouse.6304:

Brother Grimm.5176:

Frankly, they have nothing to gain from posting anything that is not in FINAL stages of implementation…

But what have they got to lose?

Communicating information that will change, making them subject to hundreds of claims of “lying” by people who make hyperbolic charges like “all the programmers must be celebrating Eggs Benedict Day.”

How do I celebrate Eggs Benedict day?

Ok Joking aside. I do Not think the Devs owe us any responses. And a pat " we are paying attention to your feedback… " will not satisfy many.

Secondly if they respond to one thread , and Not another… with actual valid feedback, the ones that were not replied to will react badly to the fact they didn’t get a response.

Add to that that any " we are looking into this.." to many peeople is Like the sound of the first shoe falling. Even if the dev has no intent on responding again, other than …acting or ..NOT acting on the information, many will still be waiting for a dev response either confirming their beliefs or denying them..etc…

The devs at times can make things worse by a reply that is poorly thought out, or not unified with other aspects of the game.

Sometimes the best response is no response.

Im Mudbone.1437:

Porterhouse.6304:

Buttercup.5871:

The only reason the devs and customer support are swamped right now is because they LISTENED to the community and implemented many, complicated far reaching yet awesome changes that take time to handle and properly adjust – based on constructive feedback – satisfactorily, often going customer by customer

Who requested that that all of the town clothes be turned into tonics? O_o

^^^^^^^^^^^^^I’d like to know what was in their minds when that crap was thought up.

Just need to find the thread it was discussed in. Long story short, people wanted a wardrobe and town clothes that were used in combat… something that was incompatible with the old system.

Remember the early LS rewards, where you were given a light, medium, and heavy variant? Remember how that changed later on so that it was on size fits all? Many of the discontinued town clothes that were designed before that change were turned into tonics because the effort to make them outfits across all armor weights wasn’t worth the the time and manpower investment.

So yes, the wardrobe WAS something that fans wanted, but had a side effect that a section of the community DIDN’T want. Believe it or not, that’s pretty common when you significantly change something in a game.

chemiclord.3978:

Just need to find the thread it was discussed in. Long story short, people wanted a wardrobe and town clothes that were used in combat… something that was incompatible with the old system.

So yes, the wardrobe WAS something that fans wanted, but had a side effect that a section of the community DIDN’T want. Believe it or not, that’s pretty common when you significantly change something in a game.

PlayerBase: “You know what would be cool? If we could wear our town clothes in combat!”

Developers: “You got it! We’ll delete all of your town clothes and convert them into non-dyeable 15-minute potions that only look like 1/4th of your original outfit! You still can’t wear them in combat.”

PlayerBase: " Wait… what?"

yet another town clothes issue and town clothes thread i only have one thing to say about the whole town clothes issue

" this is the song that doesn’t end ………… yes it goes on and on my friend ……."

end note ( no animals were hurt in the making of this post )

Welcome to MegaService Inc. LOL

chemiclord.3978:

Just need to find the thread it was discussed in. Long story short, people wanted a wardrobe and town clothes that were used in combat… something that was incompatible with the old system.

Remember the early LS rewards, where you were given a light, medium, and heavy variant? Remember how that changed later on so that it was on size fits all? Many of the discontinued town clothes that were designed before that change were turned into tonics because the effort to make them outfits across all armor weights wasn’t worth the the time and manpower investment.

So yes, the wardrobe WAS something that fans wanted, but had a side effect that a section of the community DIDN’T want. Believe it or not, that’s pretty common when you significantly change something in a game.

Okay, I’m going to explain something to you. I’m going to try to make it very clear.

Wardrobe did NOT require the destruction of Town Clothes.

In Town Clothes, you could do any skill 6-10, with full animation. You could use bundles, conjured weapons, engineer kits, and warrior banners. You could use all emotes, run, walk, dodge, and jump. The ONLY motions you couldn’t do were the very few exclusive to weapon skills, and swim. There was nothing stopping them from making Town Clothes work in combat just like Outfits do now.

So, why did they scrap Town Clothes? Well, there’s two parts to that answer. The first you almost have right, and the second is to make it easier to make Outfits.

Yes, they could have converted the existing Town Clothes to armor skins for the three combat weights. It would have taken work, and some of them may have looked a little bit different. They decided that wasn’t worth the time and effort. For that, I can’t blame them. It would have been a lot of effort, and the results would have looked pretty awful.

The other, more damming reason, was to make it easier to make new Outfits. Unlike Town Clothes, Outfits are all one item. They can make them robes, or long coats, or bathing suits, and all the parts work together because you take them all together. You don’t mix parts, because you can’t. This means that they can make things that wouldn’t look right with ANY of the combat armor classes OR old Town Clothes. Hell, they can make a “stickfigure” Outfit now if they want, I bet.

When they brought out Town Clothes that covered up more than one section of the body, though, they got complaints (Mad Prince, for example). To make the one item Outfits acceptable, they lowered the standards by removing all the mix and match items.

Did they get complaints? Yes. Would they have gotten complaints if they had allowed Town Clothes to be used in combat (which, by the way, would still require the toy conversion that also happened) and then come out with Outfits that equip on the chest and cover the whole body? Also, yes. I think most of us can agree, though, that they chose the greater of the two evils here.

ANet is desperately trying to answer us. Unfortunately, they are also in the MegaServer now, and we can’t seem to come together in the same forum.

And even if they do get in, we’ll never recognize them now that everybody looks the same in our one-size-fits-all Town Clothes.

Palador.2170:

The ONLY motions you couldn’t do were the very few exclusive to weapon skills, and swim.

Actually, you could swim with Town Clothes.

When you went into the water, they disappeared. But if you equipped a Brawling Weapon while underwater, POOF! You’re back in your town clothes again! You could swim around, and change pieces, and everything else you could do above the surface. Absolutely no problems with swimming animations and Town Clothes.

Hamfast.8719:

ANet is desperately trying to answer us. Unfortunately, they are also in the MegaServer now, and we can’t seem to come together in the same forum.

And even if they do get in, we’ll never recognize them now that everybody looks the same in our one-size-fits-all Town Clothes.

Nah. They’re answering, but they set their game to German mode, so we can’t hear them.

Hamfast.8719:

Actually, you could swim with Town Clothes.

When you went into the water, they disappeared. But if you equipped a Brawling Weapon while underwater, POOF! You’re back in your town clothes again! You could swim around, and change pieces, and everything else you could do above the surface. Absolutely no problems with swimming animations and Town Clothes.

Ohh, I did not know that trick! Thanks, I guess that’s one more little nail for the coffin to bury the “needed to remove Town Clothes” argument in.

Palador.2170:

Okay, I’m going to explain something to you. I’m going to try to make it very clear.

Wardrobe did NOT require the destruction of Town Clothes.

In Town Clothes, you could do any skill 6-10, with full animation. You could use bundles, conjured weapons, engineer kits, and warrior banners. You could use all emotes, run, walk, dodge, and jump. The ONLY motions you couldn’t do were the very few exclusive to weapon skills, and swim. There was nothing stopping them from making Town Clothes work in combat just like Outfits do now.

So, why did they scrap Town Clothes? Well, there’s two parts to that answer. The first you almost have right, and the second is to make it easier to make Outfits.

Yes, they could have converted the existing Town Clothes to armor skins for the three combat weights. It would have taken work, and some of them may have looked a little bit different. They decided that wasn’t worth the time and effort. For that, I can’t blame them. It would have been a lot of effort, and the results would have looked pretty awful.

The other, more damming reason, was to make it easier to make new Outfits. Unlike Town Clothes, Outfits are all one item. They can make them robes, or long coats, or bathing suits, and all the parts work together because you take them all together. You don’t mix parts, because you can’t. This means that they can make things that wouldn’t look right with ANY of the combat armor classes OR old Town Clothes. Hell, they can make a “stickfigure” Outfit now if they want, I bet.

When they brought out Town Clothes that covered up more than one section of the body, though, they got complaints (Mad Prince, for example). To make the one item Outfits acceptable, they lowered the standards by removing all the mix and match items.

Did they get complaints? Yes. Would they have gotten complaints if they had allowed Town Clothes to be used in combat (which, by the way, would still require the toy conversion that also happened) and then come out with Outfits that equip on the chest and cover the whole body? Also, yes. I think most of us can agree, though, that they chose the greater of the two evils here.

Of course it was possible. But it wasn’t worth the investment of time and money.

Ya wanna know what’s neat about the outfit system? It can be done quickly and cheaply. They don’t need multiple developers working on the mesh to try and make it compatible with other pieces. Whip it up, make sure it works with itself, and zip it off to the gem store. More production, less cost. Every business’s dream.

Arena.net decided Town Clothes, as they were before, wasn’t worth the investment. For every person who loved the concept there were twenty who weren’t interested. Because they didn’t play GW2 to roleplay. They didn’t buy the game to mix and match clothes that would disappear the moment they tried to hit something.

They want to hit stuff and look “cool” doing it.

If Town Clothes made Arena.net money, it wasn’t much, and at the same time, there was a potentially untapped market of players who really didn’t care about mix-n-match but might be interested in looks that they can wear while joining the Queensdale champion train.

Keeping both systems, while more than possible, most likely wasn’t very practical. From a purely business perspective, it’s a sound move; take resources from a poor investment, and try fishing for something with a better return.

Now, with all that said, what is a sound business decision isn’t always the right decision at the end of the day. We’ll see if the twain meets this time.

Seems everyone is getting the same treatment as the dungeon forums. Was just a matter of time I guess.

chemiclord.3978:

Of course it was possible. But it wasn’t worth the investment of time and money.

They could have made ZERO changes to the Town Clothes system, which would have been NO time and money invested. They could have then ADDED the Outfit system as something new and extra. They could have ADDED the ability to change some Town Clothing pieces into armor. But make it OPTIONAL (buy a transmutation stone for Town Clothes or something). There was no reason that they HAD to kill the Town Clothes. They weren’t blocking anybody’s progress.

chemiclord.3978:

Ya wanna know what’s neat about the outfit system? It can be done quickly and cheaply.

That’s not my idea of “neat”. They’re turning a fine dining establishment into fast food.

chemiclord.3978:

For every person who loved the concept there were twenty who weren’t interested.

Source please? This sounds like the “top of your head” variety of statistic.

chemiclord.3978:

Now, with all that said, what is a sound business decision isn’t always the right decision at the end of the day. We’ll see if the twain meets this time.

It is indeed yet to be seen whether or not the removal of Town Clothes was a sound business decision. As you said, people “want to hit stuff and look “cool” doing it”. They wanted to wear Town Clothes into battle. So why can’t you wear Town Clothes into battle? The only things that turned into skins were HATS. And I’d be willing to bet that your figures would stand up to my guess that for every one person who wanted to wear Town Clothes into battle, twenty people didn’t want to wear complete sets, but meant individual pieces of Town Clothing.

Yes, it IS a “top of my head” statistic. Very good. You can identify a rough estimation. The point is still clear, as I do believe the number of people who were uninterested in Town Clothes was a LOT larger than the people who bought into it.

I know you’re upset. I know you’re bitter and angry, Hamfast. But it wasn’t simply a matter of “leaving the old system alone” because they completely rebuilt the system. I’m sorry, but it’s true. They couldn’t keep both without a lot of effort they deemed wasn’t worth it.

I’m sorry you don’t believe it. I’m sorry you think Arena.net said, “F*** them. We hate them and want to make them cry,” and stole your mix-and-match town clothes from you out of spite.

I’ll bet Anet is preparing GW3, things move fast in this industry.

chemiclord.3978:

Arena.net decided Town Clothes, as they were before, wasn’t worth the investment.

For virtual items they got people to buy with real life currency, this really shouldn’t be an option.