Guild Wars 2

I’ve been thinking a lot about the complaints I’ve seen on the forums about grind, both gear and achievement grind. And I believe that most people playing would say they’d like less grind. But we also know that Anet has access to various metrics which show what people are playing.

I guess the question is: how many people are actually going to participate in content they don’t enjoy just to get a specific reward and how viable is that situation for the long term health of the game.

For example, I did all the content in Kessex, because I want a skill node in my home instance. I didn’t however, enjoy following the zerg train there, I did it to get it over with.

Now, Anet might look at that and think, wow, that’s great, we have all these people doing this content, we’ve done well. But how many people doing the content actually like or want to do it? And is that part of what Anet is counting when they count how many people are for/against a specific type of content.

I think this is a question worth asking.

Edit: For the record, I think the instance leading into the chapter of the Living World is one of the best yet. It introduces the situation, gives me some perspective and a chance to face the creatures, and a cool new atmosphere in an existing area. That much I really liked.

I play content even if I don’t enjoy it if the end reward is worth it.

I am mostly a PvE player and while I do enjoy occasional WvW and sPvP it is not enough to keep me interested because the effort-reward ratio just isn’t as good as doing open world PvE or dungeons.

Kinda makes my point for me: The only reason people are playing this game is for the rewards.
Remove the rewards and your content had better be pretty kitten ed good.

Personally I won’t do content I don’t enjoy. I suspect though that I am in a very small minority here because from what I see in game people will crawl over hot coals for a carrot and AP. This concerns me too because I have for some time suspected that the metrics do not tell the full story. Or rather that Anet may be making conclusions about content that is less than accurate.

Some things….a few….I do for the reward, or prospective reward. But, on the whole, if I don’t care for something, or feel overwhelmed by it’s implementation, I don’t do it. Like most PvP-type content.

On the other hand, doing some of the things I thought I wouldn’t like (just for the reward) changes my perspective about said content, and I find they are more fun than I thought they would be.

I am not much of a zerg-follower, unless I find there is no other way to accomplish my goals at that time.

I guess, if people are willing to do content they “don’t like” for the resulting reward, they still sort of do like it….or, at least, like the process enough to do it.

Maybe I am just odd, though. Lol.

There are people already playing LS only for achievements even though they don’t care about the lore or story.

Nick.6972:

There are people already playing LS only for achievements even though they don’t care about the lore or story.

I’m sure this is true. However, there are people who get enjoyment out of achievement hunting as an end in itself…I’m not one of them, but those people definitely exist.

I would play content i’d not enjoy if the reward is something specific to what I want. Some sexy new gear, or something thatd make my time in game easier in the long run etc. I couldnt care less for the unenjoyable content (usually grindy or rng related) if it rewards say…loads of gold, or rare cosmetic which i detest/not interested in the looks. Yes i am a cosmeticc-centric player.

Mind you, i would play fun content without regard to rewards (example the challenging dungeons, aetherblade, new TA)

THAT said, i only do such things simply because I have no other alternatives to the game as of right now.. this is my only tweak-my-toon RPG i have right now. if the current trend for grind continues, well its only a matter of waiting till the next fun rpg for me comes up.

I do content I don’t enjoy for the reward. And I have given up on certain enjoyable parts of the game because of the risk vs reward issue (10 straight failures at Tequatl come to mind). For me, WvW is too costly in terms of different gear set than PvE, repair costs because I die a lot, etc. I rarely break even in WvW even though I do enjoy it.
I think I am just trying to keep my account current with permanent rewards (candy corn node, personal obelisk, etc.)
I am already behind in mats and gear so I quit trying in that respect. A very hopeless feeling ensues when considering the options to getting the ascended versions of gear after getting exotics for most of the level 80’s I play.
I don’t farm enough to have that kind of gold or quantity of mats. And that’s not a complaint but more of an observation. There are plenty of dedicated players that think ascended acquisition is easy; I’m just not one of them.
I understand the balance Anet is working towards with the economy and the influence of the farmers on it. The effect that has on me is having to do more gold efficient activities whether I enjoy it or not. I can choose to do otherwise but it will be costly and I can’t afford to fall further behind.

It’s probably difficult for them to ascertain what players feel is fun just by whether the content is played or not. I enjoy what most people say they do not, and participate rarely in what most people say they do, though not always because I don’t like it.

It’s a crazy world.

I guess the second part of my question is as important as the first. How sustainable is it? How long will you keep playing content you don’t enjoy for a reward? Because if it’s not sustainable, this is something Anet has to learn now.

Not sure how they’ll work that out, but I think they need to know how many people are just doing it because it’s there, and won’t keep doing it over the long course of time.

If I don’t like it, I don’t do it. It’s that simple. Even if there is a shiny at the end that I would absolutely love. Case in point – SAB. I wanted that pistol skin soooooo much, but I’m not overly fond of SAB (likely because I suck at it). As such, I didn’t do it, I didn’t get the skin I wanted. Yup, that simple.

It all comes down to personal choice. You only feel as much pressure to do something as you’re willing to feel, because the only person pressuring you for that shiny is you.

That’s my take on it anyway.

I do content sometimes I don’t like to get the achievement point (s) and find that sometimes it wasn’t as bad as I was told or originally thought it would be and actually turn out enjoying it. For instance the current Lunatic Inquisition first time I played it I was totally lost and thought it was a dumb idea, but after a few games I started to understand it better and now really enjoy the mini-game, probably will miss it when it’s gone…

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

If I don’t like it, I don’t do it. It’s that simple. Even if there is a shiny at the end that I would absolutely love. Case in point – SAB. I wanted that pistol skin soooooo much, but I’m not overly fond of SAB (likely because I suck at it). As such, I didn’t do it, I didn’t get the skin I wanted. Yup, that simple.

It all comes down to personal choice. You only feel as much pressure to do something as you’re willing to feel, because the only person pressuring you for that shiny is you.

That’s my take on it anyway.

I play this game for fun, and if the (grind or non-grind) event isn’t fun, I won’t do it, end of story.

Edited to add: I’ve even missed out on completing my dailies because I didn’t feel like gathering that day.

You can’t always make content everyone enjoys because that’s logically impossible given that everyone enjoys different things.

So done updates are of course disliked by some, but you want those players to still play the update because otherwise you’ll lose them to another game. So therefore it’s a good idea to put rewards which they’ll want in the update.

We’ve previously established that I am an atypical minority in how I play the game. If I know the reward, I evaluate whether the reward is worth the time spent. If I don’t know the reward I usually grind it out unless it’s really really bad. After missing the Karka event where so many precursors were handed out, I’m “afraid” to not complete the activity.

That said, I dislike every moment of it, and wish I could just focus on the parts of the game I enjoy.

In terms of sustainability, I don’t know. I agree that the beginning portion of this most recent story was one or the best ones so far. However, I feel like it’s very little content bookending a grind. I dread the next part of the living story a bit, because I feel like the grind gets worse, not better.

Personally, I think GW2 is very very lucky that this is a dry year for games and that there hasn’t been a compelling competitor. On the other hand, Neverwinter and FFIV both launched, so maybe there’s it’s harder to make a compelling MMO than I think.

How’s that for a long post with no conclusions?

There are definitely people who play content they don’t enjoy just for the achievements/reward. The Anet thread on the LW has some consistent themes about problems in the game and grindy temporary content is one of them. Anet has said many times recently that they hear the community. They’ve also said that it takes them a while to turn the ship around. We’ll have to wait to see what that all actually means.

I believe they need to move to permanent content, which I’m suggesting would best be delivered like an expansion, but over time—and not this episodic TV show model that goes nowhere. Permanent achievements are less grindy than temporary ones. Also, it’s new player/casual player friendly. Anyone can jump in anywhere and participate in the same main story arc. They need to be able to tell a story well (they can, cf. GW1), and, of course, there needs to be a sense of reward for play in the game.

Im forced to do open world events to get dragonite. I sure as hell dont enjoy them. But if I want to finish ascended gear on all my alts Im gonna have to.

spoj.9672:

Im forced to do open world events to get dragonite. I sure as hell dont enjoy them. But if I want to finish ascended gear on all my alts Im gonna have to.

And why are you grinding out Ascended gear?
To make content you already don’t enjoy even easier?

spoj.9672:

Im forced to do open world events to get dragonite. I sure as hell dont enjoy them. But if I want to finish ascended gear on all my alts Im gonna have to.

while I feel sorry for you because I feel that you should be able to get best in slot gear by playing any game mode. I spend most of my time in game running around in the open world doing DEs on all my characters because that is what I love doing. As you can guess I am really poor in game. It takes me ages to get anything. Bis gear isn’t even a factor.

Yes, people DO play content they don’t enjoy.

Sad fact is MMO’s used to be about exploring, questing, character builds, and challenges. They players would decide what to do, and where to go.

It seems GW2 has taken the Pokémon approach to things. Gotta catch em all! Want those AP’s? Do this shopping list of things. Want that back item? Heres another list to check off. Want a node in your home instance? Well, sir, here is your list.

Its basically becoming tasks. Not gameplay, but tasks. People do them because they don’t want to be left out.

The Bazaar was a good example…..so was SAB of people doing things they didn’t want to do, but did them anyways for the rewards. Hate jumping puzzles? Too bad……if you want this item, get to jumping. Most people sucked it up and did it anyway. Pokémon!

Same with dailies. Missing a daily is a scary thought to most players. You know why they have them? So Anets/NC marketing team can spin those numbers on how many logins they have a day. Its a ploy, nothing more.

Like I said before, GW2 is the first MMO with training wheels.

I really don’t like dungeons, but I’ve done most of them once (still have 5 paths to go), just to experience the content.

I didn’t think I’d like WvW at all, but putting in more than ~0.5-3hours/month (or however long it took to get 50 kills) for Season 1 has gotten me to appreciate it more, and it’s now on my list of things to do if I’ve done my daily boss runs/LS content.

Same goes for PvP, I still only do it for the monthly, but it helps you to play your profession better, so even if I don’t like it that much, it’s at least beneficial.

Edit: Plus to do a little bit of the things I normally wouldn’t do helps keep the content I like to do more fresh for me,

Just to add one more thought. I think all this grindy content burns goodwill.

My non-scientific anecdotal evidence suggests that when people quit the game because the goodwill is gone they really end up hating the game. The amount of venom I’ve heard from friends who left the game is unbelievable.

I’m not so sure. In other games is obvious that I don’t play them if I don’t like them, I’m not tied for traditions there.

About GW2, I’m not seeing myself forced to do things that I don’t like. Pvp, I don’t like it, I don’t play it, and nothing happens. And the content that I see, I’m wathing it as farming nor is being very tiring for me. I have 13/14 archivements of this event, but I have not being following any zerg nor camping on any place waiting for nothing, And last I still have to kill the 25 infected, I have 11 without search for them exclusively, and there is still 10 days.

I’m playing this content, but I’m not feeling saturated nor I’m disliking, so I don’t have any reason to don’t play it O.ò I’m glad to have new missions to do, (well, they call it achivements, but they’re so easy, that’s not any achivement, they are missions hided under a label).

By the way, when I get bored, it’s so easy as stop playing, there are not fees, so I can return whenever I want O.ò, As I did and as I will.

I end up doing achievement related stuff that I don’t enjoy mainly because of the “never to be seen again” opportunity that exists with the 2 week release cycle and subsequent poofing of content. Want that quartz node? – better do it now because you can’t get it in a month.
Want that meta-achievement reward mini? – you’d rather play in a close WvW matchup this week instead of doing random Jps to find kites/caches? – too bad, do the JPs now or you can’t get the meta.

Mungrul.9358:

spoj.9672:

Im forced to do open world events to get dragonite. I sure as hell dont enjoy them. But if I want to finish ascended gear on all my alts Im gonna have to.

And why are you grinding out Ascended gear?
To make content you already don’t enjoy even easier?

So I can have BiS for speed clears and fractals. Why do you think? I dont open world, its dull. Doesnt mean I dislike all pve.

thehipone.6812:

I end up doing achievement related stuff that I don’t enjoy mainly because of the “never to be seen again” opportunity that exists with the 2 week release cycle and subsequent poofing of content. Want that quartz node? – better do it now because you can’t get it in a month.
Want that meta-achievement reward mini? – you’d rather play in a close WvW matchup this week instead of doing random Jps to find kites/caches? – too bad, do the JPs now or you can’t get the meta.

This is sort of exactly what I was talking about. The only person pressuring you to get those things is you. The world is not going to end if you don’t get the node (also want to point out that they never said there wouldn’t be another chance to earn one), or if you’re missing a few minis in your collection.

Yes, I understand, you have the completionist bug. I know that feeling, I had it too. It can be beaten, but the only person that can the make the choice to play any other way is you.

You don’t want to play any other way? You want to get everything, you want to be a completionist, you say? Well, then that is your choice too. Buckle down and slog on.

How you play, what you choose to do are all choices made solely by you. You can choose to slog through content you don’t like for a useless shiny, or you can choose to ignore it because it’s not to your taste. No one else can make that decision for you. Not even Anet, they can entice you, but they cannot make you.

Remove them achievement points from season 1, I bet you my last silver doubloon your queues(if you had any) would be back to business as usual from before the update.

So yes, of course we do =D

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

thehipone.6812:

I end up doing achievement related stuff that I don’t enjoy mainly because of the “never to be seen again” opportunity that exists with the 2 week release cycle and subsequent poofing of content. Want that quartz node? – better do it now because you can’t get it in a month.
Want that meta-achievement reward mini? – you’d rather play in a close WvW matchup this week instead of doing random Jps to find kites/caches? – too bad, do the JPs now or you can’t get the meta.

This is sort of exactly what I was talking about. The only person pressuring you to get those things is you. The world is not going to end if you don’t get the node (also want to point out that they never said there wouldn’t be another chance to earn one), or if you’re missing a few minis in your collection.

Yes, I understand, you have the completionist bug. I know that feeling, I had it too. It can be beaten, but the only person that can the make the choice to play any other way is you.

You don’t want to play any other way? You want to get everything, you want to be a completionist, you say? Well, then that is your choice too. Buckle down and slog on.

How you play, what you choose to do are all choices made solely by you. You can choose to slog through content you don’t like for a useless shiny, or you can choose to ignore it because it’s not to your taste. No one else can make that decision for you. Not even Anet, they can entice you, but they cannot make you.

The pressure may be felt by the player, but it doesn’t originate with the player. Why? It is an effect of game design. Temporary content (here the achievements) with a time gate is grindy—by design. It can be thought of as providing an incentive for continued play. There are many elements of game design with a similar calculation such as vertical progression. One of it’s effects is to provide an incentive for continued play.

If you understand anything about gaming, you’ll be reluctant to blame the player for things like this. Game companies are masters of motivation. But, it can backfire when it is noticed as it is actually disrespectful of players. It burns goodwill.

It’s also part of the downside of AP. On one hand, I like the target driven content in that sense, but what suffers is the actual game itself. I found myself blitzing through the AP just to get me close to 10k Ap and thus rushing through what was otherwise an interesting new update that I would have taken time over to enjoy in its own right.

I think it’s too late to retract AP altogether, rather it needs rebalancing so that there are less achievements (maybe 3-4) and are actually achievements in the correct sense of the word. Lotro kinda did it right in the early days of deed grinding where the gameplay came first and then you could go for deeds/achievements between content updates or new areas.

Will I do content I don’t like? I loathed the TA dungeon, but I did it anyway for the story. If I ever complete it though, I will never return to it ever. If undesirable content mounts up over time, yes it would impact my desire to log in as it did with Lotro – a great game which was utterly ripped apart and destroyed. OCD for completionism wont sustain me long term over great content and gameplay. Luckily there is plenty of awesome content in GW2 right now and it isn’t an issue.

What Lanfear says about it being our choice is absolutely correct. But, it is in the nature of many of us to be completionists and game designers have the uneviable task of trying to balance this all out.

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

thehipone.6812:

I end up doing achievement related stuff that I don’t enjoy mainly because of the “never to be seen again” opportunity that exists with the 2 week release cycle and subsequent poofing of content. Want that quartz node? – better do it now because you can’t get it in a month.
Want that meta-achievement reward mini? – you’d rather play in a close WvW matchup this week instead of doing random Jps to find kites/caches? – too bad, do the JPs now or you can’t get the meta.

This is sort of exactly what I was talking about. The only person pressuring you to get those things is you. The world is not going to end if you don’t get the node (also want to point out that they never said there wouldn’t be another chance to earn one), or if you’re missing a few minis in your collection.

Yes, I understand, you have the completionist bug. I know that feeling, I had it too. It can be beaten, but the only person that can the make the choice to play any other way is you.

You don’t want to play any other way? You want to get everything, you want to be a completionist, you say? Well, then that is your choice too. Buckle down and slog on.

How you play, what you choose to do are all choices made solely by you. You can choose to slog through content you don’t like for a useless shiny, or you can choose to ignore it because it’s not to your taste. No one else can make that decision for you. Not even Anet, they can entice you, but they cannot make you.

Trust me, I get it. In the strict economic sense I have made the judgement in some cases that the desired reward outweighs the slog. I play a bunch, but I’m not really much of a compulsive completionist. I’ve happily ignored SAB, Tequatl and TA updates and in those cases determined that the reward did not outweigh unenjoyable content.

My main beef is that, in most cases, what makes it unenjoyable is the deadline. I have deadlines at work. I play this game to blow off steam after work. If I’m sitting at 200/250 aetherblade kills I’d happily wait until I naturally got 50 more whether it be a week or a month from now, but if it’s the Monday before the next release the choice is to either grind it out or miss out. Sometimes I choose to grind it out, sometimes I skip. I know I make the choice. BUT Why does the need to make this choice exist in a game? What’s the good argument for cramming things in and imposing deadlines in a game? To prop up server numbers to make the login stats look better? How are players served?

TooBz.3065:

After missing the Karka event where so many precursors were handed out, I’m “afraid” to not complete the activity.

This is one of the terrible, toxic things that has been introduced into the game by choices that have been made over the last year. I don’t really want celestial gear, but I made sure to get the quartz crystal node (I did enjoy most of the Bazaar content). Don’t care for halloween, but did enough to get my candy corn node. I’m now working on the easiest path to a Krait Obelisk, though, again, I’m not charging quartz crystals, and have hundreds of skill points on multiple characters as well as a stack of skill point scrolls in storage.

I also still have my Kiel support badges and other LS currency/mats sitting in storage.

All because ANet has demonstrated they can suddenly make something that seemed useless become very desireable later, and those items have limited opportunity for getting them.

I’ve passed on other items like soulbound minis I’m not interested in (until they stop going to collections every time I send my mats) and cosmetic items I didn’t like the look of. It’s just the stuff that might become a valuable mat or currency later that has me afraid to pass it by.

Vaxx.3178:

Like I said before, GW2 is the first MMO with training wheels.

While I can agree with the spirit of your post, this is definitely not the first, nor the worst “training wheel” MMORPG. Ever played a Perfect World game? I was shocked that quests came with a button you could click so you coul AFK while your toon walked itself to the quest location! Or that you could “train”, by setting your toon to auto-attack a dummy in the main city and leave it overnight to gain several levels by the time you woke the next morning.

Just providing some perspective there.

As to the OP…

Obviously from my response above I do content I’m not interested in solely for the reward. I’d like to point out, however, that I didn’t for the first three months or so after launch. I felt no need to do so, and moved through the world in an immersive fashion, doing whatever content caught my interest at the time.

Over the year following, however, the proportion of my play time in areas solely for the reward has steadily increased. It hit an all-time high (low?) with the implementation of Ascended Weapons. It’s a lot harder for me to ignore a 5% stat increase than cosmetic items. I dismissed Legendaries long ago as something too grindy and not rewarding enough to pursue.

Ascended Weaponry, however, has me farming for the first time. So far, it seems like an achievable goal (though I’m now focused on only two characters, rather than the eight I was playing). It’s something I can get out of the way, so I can get back to playing the game with fewer checklists to accomplish.

My fear is that ANet will continue providing vertical progression about as fast as I can accomplish it, which means I won’t escape the checklist. I might have my ascended weapons on my two toons before ascende armor is implemented. I expect to be grinding out armor around the first of the year. But if we get grindy infusions shortly after, magenta runes and sigils after that, and a level cap increase after that….? Somewhere in there it will cease to be sustainable for me, and I’ll move on to something else.

Since ArenaNet has already told us they plan to continue vertical progression, it will be all about whether they get back to “play the way you want” and give us a lot more options to get the next progression, and how often they implement each new stat increase.

They actually do… people do dungeons every day with the idea of getting out as soon as possible… so yes, they do play content they don’t enjoy.

No. I completed the achievemtns on only 3 (I believe) Living story updates. Did not play the rest, because it wasn’t good enogh, IMO. Juts my opinion.

TooBz.3065:

Just to add one more thought. I think all this grindy content burns goodwill.

My non-scientific anecdotal evidence suggests that when people quit the game because the goodwill is gone they really end up hating the game. The amount of venom I’ve heard from friends who left the game is unbelievable.

People like your friends do exist, but there is the other type too. I quit the game a few weeks ago, because I came to the conclusion that the game is not for me. Anet’s new direction for the game is not what I thought it would be. Some people like it, some people don’t.

I still linger on the forums, in desperate hope that the developers change their minds about the game I really want to love.

I’m playing for story.
If the story element isn’t worth it I play for Home instanced rewards.
If there’s no HIR, I see what reward there is. Minis have priority over armor because I don’t have a lot of bank space for armor.
If none of that excites me I see if its just a challenge (see Teq release).
If I can’t do it solo or it requires a group and I can’t find a decent one then I’m simply going back to dungeons/crafting/leveling my lowbies.

That’s my flowchart for every release. With this current Tower release I’m doing this all for the skittence I have that its Champ train for my level 52 Charr Engineer again.

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

How you play, what you choose to do are all choices made solely by you. You can choose to slog through content you don’t like for a useless shiny, or you can choose to ignore it because it’s not to your taste. No one else can make that decision for you. Not even Anet, they can entice you, but they cannot make you.

Though not all the shinies are useless.

Want to maximize boon uptime? You’ll need Superior Runes of the Monk, which are only available from running Ascalonian Catacombs.

Want a 5% stat increase (calculated to be up to 10% damage increase when you include weapon damage)? You’ll need to do some world bosses.

Not every reward from these grinds is cosmetic.

Yes, you can choose to ignore these rewards. But a game can also be designed so that you get the rewards through the type of stuff you actually like to do.

I can go to a pizza joint that only serves mushroom pizza, and pick out the mushrooms. I don’t have to eat them if I’d prefer plain cheese. It’d be a lot more enjoyable, though, if someone would just put cheese pizza on the menu.

TooBz.3065:

Just to add one more thought. I think all this grindy content burns goodwill.

My non-scientific anecdotal evidence suggests that when people quit the game because the goodwill is gone they really end up hating the game. The amount of venom I’ve heard from friends who left the game is unbelievable.

Yes, this is true. Specially when players expected something from the game and get “betrayed” by a 180° turn around in the devs vision of the game.

For me it depends, mainly on the rewards. If the content is not that bad I could do it just to get over it, but -for example- today I was made aware that we are being forced to run fractals in order to use two of the same trinkets with the same kind of infusion, which along to ascended backpieces being available only through fractals made me think about how “tryhard” (lack of better word) a developer has to be to make equipment upgrades only available through unwanted content.

For the most part I will not do content I do not enjoy. However if I’m an achievement or two from finishing the event and if I have time I might do the last few even if I don’t enjoy them and if they are not too time consuming. More often than not I won’t bother with it though. I play this game to have fun and there is no reward in the game that will get me to spend hours not having fun. I have plenty of obligations in real life that are not fun so I’m not going to do the same with my game time.

Vayne.8563:

For example, I did all the content in Kessex, because I want a skill node in my home instance. I didn’t however, enjoy following the zerg train there, I did it to get it over with.

Now, Anet might look at that and think, wow, that’s great, we have all these people doing this content, we’ve done well. But how many people doing the content actually like or want to do it? And is that part of what Anet is counting when they count how many people are for/against a specific type of content.

I think this is a question worth asking.

I am afraid my motivation to do some of the living story content is the same as yours.
I often don’t enjoy it, but I do it anyway if the reward is good enough.

Vayne.8563:

how many people are actually going to participate in content they don’t enjoy just to get a specific reward and how viable is that situation for the long term health of the game.

I don’t do anything I don’t want. Regardless of reward. Its a game, it’s meant to be fun. When it becomes a job or chore of doing things you don’t like then it’s time to turn that game off.

Well, I’ve completed all the PvE stuff (minus LS, which obviously changes), to the point where the thought of leveling up another character seems so tedious that I can’t bring myself to do it. I really love WvW, so my entire “end game” is to gain enough gold to outfit my 3 level 80’s in the best gear for that. Sadly, that seems to be super expensive, so I’m constantly doing boring champ trains, and ya, thanks ANet for stealth nerfing the rewards there. I do like AP so even if I don’t really like content I will do as many LS achievements as I can just to get the points. I NEVER get good drops from LS (everyone else seems to get ascended this and that while I get barbs… ya), so other than AP I find it completely confusing and unrewarding and frustrating… usually.

If ANet goes by numbers only they can’t possibly be getting the “true” picture of how people actually enjoy the game or what they might want in future.

One of the problems is that some of these things leave no option between “do the grind” and “ignore the reward”.

As was said above, putting time limits on means you can’t approach it casually. “Hey, when I pass through Kessex I’ll do a toxic offshoot or two, and some day get the reward” isn’t possible. You either hit it specifically over the two weeks its available, or you decide to just pass. It makes the Living Story a lot more love it or leave it than it needs to be.

The same is true of Ascended gear. It’s unrealistic to take an approach of, “If a world boss pops when I’m running around a zone I’ll do it, and eventually have enough Dragonite”. It takes too many world boss events to put together enough for a weapon. With 3-5 rewarded for the smaller world bosses, 15 to 25 for the bigger ones, it would take a crazy long amount of time to get to the 500 needed for one weapon if you don’t specifically head to world bosses.

The same is true for the crazy amounts of non-ascended mats needed. Compared to farming, it would take absurdly long to gather the mats for one sword if you just gather as you go about enjoying the game, rather than specifically going from node to node or grinding out the gold to buy them.

ANet has squeezed out the middleground where the moderate player can just immerse themselves in the game and get stuff in a reasonable time. They designed leveling that way… you get experience for pretty much anything you choose to do, and level up without focusing on it. That’s not true of a lot of the other parts of the game.

Seems to be a lot of responses here already. But I play content every month I don’t enjoy just to get the AP or the rewards attached to those metas. There is content I do enjoy but a number of the more pointless grindy things or chasing down 50 balloons etc I do not consider fun.

No, if I don’t like the content I won’t play it, no matter what.

My free time is worth more than any reward Anet could put in the game.

I find the rewards as a whole in GW2 medicore, unimaginative and rubbish by and large.

Human will always do want they want they may say they do not like something but if they truly disliked it then they would not do it in the first places. Often ppl fool them self into thinking that they do not like something.
Ppl do not always do what they say they are going to do is the best way i can put it.

Raine.1394:

The pressure may be felt by the player, but it doesn’t originate with the player. Why? It is an effect of game design. Temporary content (here the achievements) with a time gate is grindy—by design. It can be thought of as providing an incentive for continued play. There are many elements of game design with a similar calculation such as vertical progression. One of it’s effects is to provide an incentive for continued play.

If you understand anything about gaming, you’ll be reluctant to blame the player for things like this. Game companies are masters of motivation. But, it can backfire when it is noticed as it is actually disrespectful of players. It burns goodwill.

Businesses are masters of motivation, not just games. Why? Because we’d be heck of a lot less inclined to go out and participate/purchase a vast number of things without those external motivators.

Come buy this 200$ blender, sure you have one, but this one is also a food processor and can mix dough! It doesn’t matter that you have things that do those things too, come buy this one, get one item that does all 3!

Come buy this deep fryer, you ‘need’ it, even though you can use a large pot and do the same thing.

Come eat at this restaurant, for limited time it’s buy one entree take one home for $5!

We’re battered on all sides by these things, so yeah I fully expect to encounter it in the games I play. They are trying to motivate you into an specific action, doesn’t mean you have to allow them to pressure you into it. This isn’t any different than the “pressure” we feel from the advertisements around us, or from our peers when we opt to not follow the herd.

Imposing a deadline on the living story is simply to entice players into doing it ‘now’ if that’s what they want to do. It also makes us unique in that some will do it and earn the rewards (because that’s what they wanted to do) and others won’t. We don’t all end up cardboard cut outs with all the same items, experiences, etc. It allows for some diversity. This is not a bad thing.

TooBz.3065:

Just to add one more thought. I think all this grindy content burns goodwill.

My non-scientific anecdotal evidence suggests that when people quit the game because the goodwill is gone they really end up hating the game. The amount of venom I’ve heard from friends who left the game is unbelievable.

Most of the venom I hear coming from former players has to do with all the anti-player patches they have pushed out to feed the cash shop.

Time gating, temporary content, vet mobs added to DEs that don’t drop loot, and now finishers in PvE. None of these features are actually good for the game, they’re just good for the cash shop.

Of course you couple all of that with the stuff they refuse to add because it doesn’t generate cash shop, such as precursor scavenger hunt, multi specs, more weapon archtypes, different spvp map types, and a continuation of the original story.

Honestly, it’s really hard NOT to hate ArenaNet.

Jski.6180:

Human will always do want they want they may say they do not like something but if they truly disliked it then they would not do it in the first places. Often ppl fool them self into thinking that they do not like something.
Ppl do not always do what they say they are going to do is the best way i can put it.

That’s not really how compulsion works though. A lot of MMOs play on compulsion to keep people playing. And people can’t help/choose compulsions by definition.