Wintersday is scheduled to end on January 12, 2016. words from Gaile Gray herself. as for the drinks achievement we can earn it throughout the year instead only wintersday. Happy drinking everyone.
Most of the supply disappears January 12 so if you haven’t got the achievement by then you probably won’t get it until the next year. Unless you suddenly get really wealthy.
Wintersday is scheduled to end on January 12, 2016. words from Gaile Gray herself. as for the drinks achievement we can earn it throughout the year instead only wintersday. Happy drinking everyone.
Most of the supply disappears January 12 so if you haven’t got the achievement by then you probably won’t get it until the next year. Unless you suddenly get really wealthy.
This. Oh will probably cost a lot more until next year too if you wait till then b/c the way to acquire them will be gone. Oh well at least it will still be doable.
For holiday stuff, make it easy, cheap, low-stress, and enjoyable to do. It’s a holiday event, after all.
For non-holiday stuff, make some things easy, cheap, low-stress, and enjoyable to do, and some things complicated, tricky, and difficult. And always give options for how to complete content like masteries and such (looking at adventures required to complete masteries and profession collections). Multiple ways to advance promotes the “play the game your way” ideal.
Wintersday is scheduled to end on January 12, 2016. words from Gaile Gray herself. as for the drinks achievement we can earn it throughout the year instead only wintersday. Happy drinking everyone.
Most of the supply disappears January 12 so if you haven’t got the achievement by then you probably won’t get it until the next year. Unless you suddenly get really wealthy.
Well that could be a gamble. Sell excess gifts now or sell them a month or so from now in hopes that the prices increase and don’t do like what we saw with the infinite batwing tonic or wings.
All I really have to say is I have disabilities that do not allow me to do jumping puzzles, and I DEFINITELY don’t have the spare time/money to be grinding constantly for drinks and whatnot. It isn’t really about making it easier. It’s about making it possible to do in the first place.
The more time I spend doing this event, and the more time I see such terrible negativity (one could argue that those who don’t have any issues and don’t want to change the current system are the ones with entitlement issues), the more it drains out of me. I do like the Christmas stuff, and I DO want to earn the skins and titles, but it’s just too much to ask of my, physically and mentally.
I just want to play video games and have fun. For me, it’s an escape from real life. It’s disheartening to see that that doesn’t seem to matter to anyone here.
All I really have to say is I have disabilities that do not allow me to do jumping puzzles, and I DEFINITELY don’t have the spare time/money to be grinding constantly for drinks and whatnot. It isn’t really about making it easier. It’s about making it possible to do in the first place.
The more time I spend doing this event, and the more time I see such terrible negativity (one could argue that those who don’t have any issues and don’t want to change the current system are the ones with entitlement issues), the more it drains out of me. I do like the Christmas stuff, and I DO want to earn the skins and titles, but it’s just too much to ask of my, physically and mentally.
I just want to play video games and have fun. For me, it’s an escape from real life. It’s disheartening to see that that doesn’t seem to matter to anyone here.
The holidays are an incredibly stressful time for me, and I used to find a lot of relief in Guild Wars festivities as a nice distraction. That is so far gone this year it’s not even funny
[ I survived the 2015 April Fools Forum Meltdown ]
Wait wait wait. I CAN’T ENJOY GAME WITHOUT WINTER PRESENCE?
Let’s be honest, if everything would be easy to get, we would have left the game 2 months after the release. 3 years community was screaming “We want challanges, we want new goals” and when we finally get it, we whine of how unfair it is. Every achievement in the game is OPTIONAL. And yes it is unfair and I feel sorry for those who can’t do certain things. But you don’t need to grind JP to get Winter’s Presence. We all knew something new is going to be added to the game. I personally started farming Silverwastes month ago (which requires 2 fingers to do) and now i’m already half way through this achievement. Even when this event will end you could still farm gold and buy drinks to finish your achievement.
Also, what is an achievement? The definition of achievement – a thing done successfully with effort, skill, or courage.
There are many ways to get Winter’s presence:
Do the events
Do farm gold:
SW
champ trains
fractals
etc.
Just by playing the game
Once again, I’m sorry for those can’t get this achievement by doing JP. But there are work arounds if you really want and achievements have to be hard to reach.
To be honest, I see it as a fad item and people will move on to the next hot item. Remember how everyone was all about those wing back item skins? How many people do you see using them now? How about that celestial dragon mini?
To be honest, I see it as a fad item and people will move on to the next hot item. Remember how everyone was all about those wing back item skins? How many people do you see using them now? How about that celestial dragon mini?
Fad or no, the point is what the situation is now and what people will remember about the game from this experience.
To be honest, I see it as a fad item and people will move on to the next hot item. Remember how everyone was all about those wing back item skins? How many people do you see using them now? How about that celestial dragon mini?
Fad or no, the point is what the situation is now and what people will remember about the game from this experience.
Ok? I had a brother die suddenly years ago. It took me some years, but I’m more or less over it at this point.
It didn’t make it any less tragic and painful at the time, or while I was working through it.
Obviously GW2 problems are nothing on the level of a brother dying – I know that more than anyone. But the point, I hope, is obvious. The fact that you can get over something doesn’t somehow make it excusable or ok, nor does it mean that people will forget.
I don’t really get what the point of your post is, to be honest. The people who were frustrated enough to remember will remember and the ones who were only mildly frustrated will probably forget. And the world will keep on spinning. That has nothing to do with the current conversation though, which is about how the community is acting and how people feel about the design in question.
I agree with you, OP. I enjoyed your well-written post, too. Empathy, like common sense, isn’t really all that common, unfortunately.
So many players’ answers to any and all problems is, “I like it, so there’s nothing wrong with it” and “I can do it, so everyone can or there’s something fundamentally wrong with them.” I can only imagine that people like this that can’t or won’t put themselves into other peoples’ shoes have a really hard time of it in RL. lol
Ok? I had a brother die suddenly years ago. It took me some years, but I’m more or less over it at this point.
It didn’t make it any less tragic and painful at the time, or while I was working through it.
Obviously GW2 problems are nothing on the level of a brother dying – I know that more than anyone. But the point, I hope, is obvious. The fact that you can get over something doesn’t somehow make it excusable or ok, nor does it mean that people will forget.
I don’t really get what the point of your post is, to be honest. The people who were frustrated enough to remember will remember and the ones who were only mildly frustrated will probably forget. And the world will keep on spinning. That has nothing to do with the current conversation though, which is about how the community is acting and how people feel about the design in question.
You act as if what Anet did with the collection is wrong simply because you disagree with it. People tend to overreact to whatever they dislike and blow it way out of what it really is. Over time they get over it and move on.
I have tried over and over and over this jumping puzzle. I really cannot do them and this one seems impossible, now to have a collection that requires an item from this jp that not everyone can do which means not everyone will be able to get this shoulder piece, I thinks is unfair. Granted it is a game after all but still upsetting just the same. I feel this jumping puzzle is way too difficult.
You act as if what Anet did with the collection is wrong simply because you disagree with it. People tend to overreact to whatever they dislike and blow it way out of what it really is. Over time they get over it and move on.
What a ridiculous thing to say. It is a bad design decision in my mind, so of course that’s how it’s going to come out when I talk about. I also typically give way more explanation for why I dislike something than anyone wants or needs, and way more than I owe Anet, which is zero. I don’t know why you feel the need to try to invalidate peoples’ feelings and dismiss their feedback as something that they will “get over.”
It’s a kittening game and people are giving feedback. Give feedback of your own, debate the feedback given, or get over it and move on. The irony of you talking about people getting over stuff and making a big deal, while you make a big deal about what other people are saying and seem to be having trouble getting over it.
You act as if what Anet did with the collection is wrong simply because you disagree with it. People tend to overreact to whatever they dislike and blow it way out of what it really is. Over time they get over it and move on.
What a ridiculous thing to say. It is a bad design decision in my mind, so of course that’s how it’s going to come out when I talk about. I also typically give way more explanation for why I dislike something than anyone wants or needs, and way more than I owe Anet, which is zero. I don’t know why you feel the need to try to invalidate peoples’ feelings and dismiss their feedback as something that they will “get over.”
It’s a kittening game and people are giving feedback. Give feedback of your own, debate the feedback given, or get over it and move on. The irony of you talking about people getting over stuff and making a big deal, while you make a big deal about what other people are saying and seem to be having trouble getting over it.
You have your opinion and I have mine. Remember, you’re the one that responded to my post. It wasn’t the other way around. I made an observation on what I have noticed and you’re the one trying to invalidate what I said and dismiss it. Follow your own advice. Thanks.
You have your opinion and I have mine. Remember, you’re the one that responded to my post. It wasn’t the other way around. I made an observation on what I have noticed and you’re the one trying to invalidate what I said and dismiss it. Follow your own advice. Thanks.
I took what you originally said as dismissive of the topic at hand in general.
“I see it as a fad item and people will move on to the next hot item.”
Ok, so fine, your opinion, but in a thread that was primarily about how some community members are basically invalidating the the life circumstances of others, I think you can see how it might come across.
And when I challenged you on it, rather than simply reminding me that it was your opinion from the beginning, you dug in your heels by using phrases like “people will get over it.” I think you can see how that would only succeed in confirming the way I had interpreted what you originally said. And then I went into even more detail and again, rather than reminding me that it was your opinion, you tell me this:
You act as if what Anet did with the collection is wrong simply because you disagree with it. People tend to overreact to whatever they dislike and blow it way out of what it really is. Over time they get over it and move on.
Confirming even more the kind of attitude I interpreted from your original post, even going so far as to say that people overreact and blow things out of proportion.
So yeah… I may have gone after “your opinion” too quickly and I apologize for that, but it seems from how you reacted that you were, in fact, of an overall dismissive mind toward the topic at hand, so in terms of what you said after your first post, I don’t apologize and I see nothing wrong with having called you on it.
You have your opinion and I have mine. Remember, you’re the one that responded to my post. It wasn’t the other way around. I made an observation on what I have noticed and you’re the one trying to invalidate what I said and dismiss it. Follow your own advice. Thanks.
I took what you originally said as dismissive of the topic at hand in general.
“I see it as a fad item and people will move on to the next hot item.”
Ok, so fine, your opinion, but in a thread that was primarily about how some community members are basically invalidating the the life circumstances of others, I think you can see how it might come across.
And when I challenged you on it, rather than simply reminding me that it was your opinion from the beginning, you dug in your heels by using phrases like “people will get over it.” I think you can see how that would only succeed in confirming the way I had interpreted what you originally said. And then I went into even more detail and again, rather than reminding me that it was your opinion, you tell me this:
You act as if what Anet did with the collection is wrong simply because you disagree with it. People tend to overreact to whatever they dislike and blow it way out of what it really is. Over time they get over it and move on.
Confirming even more the kind of attitude I interpreted from your original post, even going so far as to say that people overreact and blow things out of proportion.
So yeah… I may have gone after “your opinion” too quickly and I apologize for that, but it seems from how you reacted that you were, in fact, of an overall dismissive mind toward the topic at hand, so in terms of what you said after your first post, I don’t apologize and I see nothing wrong with having called you on it.
I wasn’t being dismissive of whether people disliked it or not. It was about the people who blow it out to be much more than it really is. Think of it this way. Teenagers in high school often blow their problems up into being the end of the world. That’s what I have seen often in this game which was why I posted my observation.
You have your opinion and I have mine. Remember, you’re the one that responded to my post. It wasn’t the other way around. I made an observation on what I have noticed and you’re the one trying to invalidate what I said and dismiss it. Follow your own advice. Thanks.
I took what you originally said as dismissive of the topic at hand in general.
“I see it as a fad item and people will move on to the next hot item.”
Ok, so fine, your opinion, but in a thread that was primarily about how some community members are basically invalidating the the life circumstances of others, I think you can see how it might come across.
Y’all are in a tiff over this, but there are two points to the same reality here; you’re both not necessarily wrong and there is a way Anet could have set this up where it wouldn’t matter if you did the JP or not.
Ayrilana is correct in that it is just a fad item. Even a majority of people who can do the JP will never own this item. The item is required for absolutely nothing except, if you want to get technical, maybe towards 1 point of the wardrobe achievement (though I bet most people getting this item already have that).
You’re correct that Anet could have put a friendlier system in place. I can beat the JP but there is RNG with the present section so it is more frustrating than I would like to admit. Where you’re wrong is where you say “community members are basically invalidating the the life circumstances of others”, which is a clear misrepresentation of the counter-argument to the OP. It’s not as though people are actively campaigning against people with disabilities to put content in the game that they literally can’t do, they just don’t want content disabled or made pointless because somebody can’t do it.
The best alternative to what we have now would be the token system that somebody introduced above. If somebody wants to do the JP and have it count towards the achievement let them, but also don’t make them do the choir bells or what have you if they are rhythmically impaired and can never hit the right notes. Vice versa for people who don’t like/can’t do the JP.
Probably another good alternative would be to give credit to people for participating in the JP if they stay the entire time and at least try. People who complete the JP over and over will get the achievements faster, but in the end everyone can get it. After all, the snowball fight doesn’t require wins and choir bells doesn’t require a certain score, it just requires you to be in the “match”.
Not to devalue what OP is saying, but what exactly do you expect Anet to do about this? You can’t expect all their content to be “easy” for everyone – that’s unrealistic. You also can’t expect them to make everything “hardcore” either. They need to add both. There is literally nothing they can do for other people’s ISP issues.
I just don’t understand what people expect to be done when it’s impossible to cater to everyone’s situation at all times. And all this hostility seems to be centered around, let’s face it, a vanity item. There was no where near as much disagreement when Masteries dropped. Where these same problems affect people doing the new content.
Not to devalue what OP is saying, but what exactly do you expect Anet to do about this? You can’t expect all their content to be “easy” for everyone – that’s unrealistic. You also can’t expect them to make everything “hardcore” either. They need to add both. There is literally nothing they can do for other people’s ISP issues.
I just don’t understand what people expect to be done when it’s impossible to cater to everyone’s situation at all times. And all this hostility seems to be centered around, let’s face it, a vanity item. There was no where near as much disagreement when Masteries dropped. Where these same problems affect people doing the new content.
Seriously. There are a lot of mastery points gated behind insane tasks like the diving, getting all the cultural armor skins, and coin collections. To that point, there are complaints about those too, but there are also more mastery points than there are masteries. I think that’s worth mentioning that to get the collection item requires the JP as opposed to getting all masteries that doesn’t require the diving achievement (though I did get that over some other ones…).
Seriously. There are a lot of mastery points gated behind insane tasks like the diving, getting all the cultural armor skins, and coin collections. To that point, there are complaints about those too, but there are also more mastery points than there are masteries. I think that’s worth mentioning that to get the collection item requires the JP as opposed to getting all masteries that doesn’t require the diving achievement (though I did get that over some other ones…).
But if you have physical limitations, either personally or due to bad ping/ISP, wouldn’t most Mastery tasks be just as difficult? Adventures, gliding, challenging fights- not just JPs or Diving. And these are much more vital to playing HoT content than a holiday shoulder aura.
I have friends who just can’t do raids because their glider fail on Gorseval is too much of a problem because they have bad pings. But you can’t ask Anet to remove the updraft a from the fight to cater to them..
But if you have physical limitations, either personally or due to bad ping/ISP, wouldn’t most Mastery tasks be just as difficult? Adventures, gliding, challenging fights- not just JPs or Diving. And these are much more vital to playing HoT content than a holiday shoulder aura.
I have friends who just can’t do raids because their glider fail on Gorseval is too much of a problem because they have bad pings. But you can’t ask Anet to remove the updraft a from the fight to cater to them..
I don’t even bother my guild about raiding right now with my ISP issues because it would kitten ME off even more than it would them. But most of this game is not nearly as split second as people like to think and you can build around a lot of it (e.g. I still solo flip stuff around the borderlands casually by running a minion-master Reaper).
As long as you think ahead a few seconds 96% of the game can still be done with awareness more than twitch. I’ve also done the southsun jump puzzle easily enough because it only asks for about 10 timed jumps at a time before giving you a place to pause and set up for the next sprint. But the two festival JP have always been my bane. Just up until now the key rewards for those events have allowed me to work around them by doing everything else.
That’s really the issue. There’s slack in the meta-achievement , but there’s zero slack in the collection. Gee, if only the shoulders were in THAT reward chest… Then we could all skip the 1-2 things that annoy us the most.
“You keep saying ‘its unfair.’
I wonder what your basis for comparison is…”
- Jareth, King of Goblins.
Exactly, its a game. You don’t need the cosmetic items at all as it won’t affect your gameplay one bit. All armors could be removed and you just allocate your stats instead and the gameplay would remain the same.
Yes, you’re right. And conversely, EVERYONE having access to the same cosmetic items won’t affect anyone’s gameplay.
I guess I’m just one of those people who doesn’t understand certain peoples’ need to exclude others for the sake of their own perceived value. Someone having the Batwings shoulder while I don’t doesn’t bother me, just like not having the GWAMM title doesn’t bother me. BUT if everyone had it, it still wouldn’t bother me. Others’ enjoyment one way or another doesn’t really affect me, insofar as they don’t ragequit a dungeon or something which would affect my ability to enjoy the content, but that’s again, gameplay related.
But when did “need” enter the lexicon of gamers to determine what is or isn’t fun? Is it enjoyable for some people to run around LA with their Batwings or Twilights or what have you in a sad attempt at showing off how much time they’ve sunk into the game? To me, that’s kind of sad, and its a poor game if that exclusivity is designed in.
To be fair, Legendary items aren’t timegated to a two or four week festival. Items that come from an event that is supposed to celebrate good will towards your fellow sentient creatures probably shouldn’t have a design that makes them just another bragging item based on exclusivity. Would be like going to a Goodwill or homeless shelter and showing off the fat stacks of cash in the back of your BMW, and then driving off laughing at everyone else’s misfortune.
3 years community was screaming “We want challanges, we want new goals” and when we finally get it, we whine of how unfair it is.
The community was and is screaming for new content, better class balance, updates to PvP and WvW, and you know, ACTUAL gameplay stuff.
What we are actually getting is more and more outfits, and timegated achievements that are the epitome of grind.
Winter’s Presence Achievement Track is NOT what the community has been asking for. To think that’s the case, you’d pretty much have to be completely unaware of the state of the game and the community at large.
While I definitely have my own complaints about Wintersday, I cannot help but notice that the overall sentiment expressed in this thread is: “This doesn’t cater to me.”
Challenging content is supposed to be challenging. Arguing that there should be alternative ways to complete “challenging content” utterly defeats the purpose of offering challenging content.
As far as JPs go, this one is NOT hard.
What is annoying, and one of the few points I do agree with, is the fact that people camp/stay in/do whatever they want in the JP zone excluding everyone. I feel that Anet should implement some sort of measure to ensure that people cannot infinitely run the JP and make everyone else sit and wait for their pleasure. Just my two cents.
I find the idea of a geocentric universe sexually arousing.
All I really have to say is I have disabilities that do not allow me to do jumping puzzles, and I DEFINITELY don’t have the spare time/money to be grinding constantly for drinks and whatnot. It isn’t really about making it easier. It’s about making it possible to do in the first place.
The more time I spend doing this event, and the more time I see such terrible negativity (one could argue that those who don’t have any issues and don’t want to change the current system are the ones with entitlement issues), the more it drains out of me. I do like the Christmas stuff, and I DO want to earn the skins and titles, but it’s just too much to ask of my, physically and mentally.
I just want to play video games and have fun. For me, it’s an escape from real life. It’s disheartening to see that that doesn’t seem to matter to anyone here.
If you play video games to have fun, the skin shouldn’t matter to you.
Its this mentality that everyone should have everything regardless of effort put forth that wrecks games. Not that I’m not sympathetic to those who cant get the stuff they want, but like playing CoD/BF/WoW/any game and complaining that you cant do X because its hard and it should be nerfed to fit you.
In addition the game has so many cool looking kitten near free items that you can use to make your character look cool. (I got mine looking that way i want with 800 gems and some teq runs)
BTW I will not be getting winters day presence this year, I want it BUT I don’t have the time so I wont be. I want it but 10k drinks is 9k drinks to many IMHO.
This issue has little to do with effort and more about exclusivity. The other threads have proposed very reasonable alternatives to the acquisition of this skin: tokens, for example, which can be earned via every Wintersday activity or dailies.
It has NOTHING to do with exclusive here; no one is excluded from the activities required to make this item.
OP is wrong. And this is just a bad idea in general.
Here is why – this is a video game and the developers are human. That means they CANNOT write code that takes into account the disability/time limitations of a player and adjust the content accordingly. They do not have magic abilities.
What they COULD do is either give the content away (likely what the OP really wants) OR they COULD make it even MORE grindy and easier.
Both of these solutions suck. The idea here is that this item is something special – for someone who puts in the time and conquers the challenges of the festival. That is a good idea – as developers do want to reward the best players. That encourage more people to play.. Exclusivity is GOOD for a game.
Just ask Blizzard with their raiding for everyone mantra how their NA market is compared to even Vanilla WoW..
Listen to wrong people and your game will crater. There are legions of people that just want ‘stuff’ and when they get it – they just quit because there is nothing to do. Caving into these people is a disaster.
This isn’t about downgrading content. This is about the shift of gw2 philosophy on platforming. In vanilla gw2 platforming was peripheral to the game. Since HoT platforming has become a requirement for things in the game.
I bought the game advertised as a rpg not a platformer.
That’s the thing, isn’kitten Is GW2 a game for people to unwind after a hard day, click a few things, maybe kill some mobs or do some events, or is it an MMO? ANet aimed for MMO, which means long-term goals for MMO players who want to and do throw many hours at the game most days of the year. Thing is, there’s room for both types of play in GW2, except that some players who are in the drop-in/drop-out category want some of the rewards that are obviously aimed at the all-in players.
This isn’t about downgrading content. This is about the shift of gw2 philosophy on platforming. In vanilla gw2 platforming was peripheral to the game. Since HoT platforming has become a requirement for things in the game.
Getting those shoulders is not a requirement. Man up and admit you just want the shoulders rather then pretending you are an expert in game design..
Thing is, there’s room for both types of play in GW2, except that some players who are in the drop-in/drop-out category want some of the rewards that are obviously aimed at the all-in players.
Absolutely. And caving into those players is a royally bad idea..
You are right, there are people who are simply unable to get certain items from the game. But to make it easier for those people is to cheapen it for others who are proud of what they’ve done.
Not easier, equal. We should all have an equal chance to get things in this game.
When you make content that is especially difficult or impossible for players with disabilities to do part of a requirement for an event, item or story, then you are actively excluding players. You are making them less than the other players.
Before I go any further, I agree we should be open, considerate and constructive posters.
It was nice to read your idealistic writing, but you can’t make anything skill based and give everyone an equal chance by the definitions your posts strongly suggest, so I have to disagree with even though the spirit of your post comes from a good place.
First off, you try to say make easier and make equal are different in this situation. They are not. Adding a colorblind option (say shading) to the start menu/game is making it equal, changing core gameplay mechanisms (jumping + timed gameplay) to accommodate disabilities is flatting out the challenge to lower the entry level. Don’t stop here, read further because I will expand on this (spoiler because Wall of Text).
Your entire argument is the core validation for catering to the lowest denominator, which doesn’t work in the current scenario. I wish we could all be happy and the lowest denominator was high enough to challenge everyone enough for it to be fun, but it isn’t. We arn’t equal so you can’t provide a one size fits all solution. We’re not even close enough to make setting a threshold value include most people.
If ones hands don’t work well any more, and one chooses a hobby that involves precision work with one’s hands from time to time and then one goes on to choose the aspect (this this case game) in which precision work is actually more often needed for certain rewards. Instead of accepting limitations, as they have been a factor in the hobby for years (so either played that time or probably should have done research), one thinks that, since its just a hobby, “why can’t the whole hobby be brought down a notch” to make it so I have just as good a chance as the person who choose this hobby because he was good with handwork and he takes joy from excelling in it.
You are putting the choice between the disabled person being able to enter on equal ground to get an optional shiny, and the fun of good jumper being rewarded for his ability. If you cannot see how this is potentially harmful, we have nothing more to discuss. If you understand the issue, but still lean towards the disabled person playing a hand precision game as the default best choice, you are ignoring the fact that he isn’t the target audience for this content, his abilities if you quantify it would be at the low end of the bell curve that is beyond the chosen cut-off. Lowering the cut-off to include him it makes a lower skill level accessible, eg making the content easier (and we made it, phew).
Yes theoretically the encounter design could have been made to accommodate both, but it would no longer be the same challenge (and cost more effort to make = be more expensive). You are just shifting the skill being tested (easiest way I can think of is my beloved OR option, which I would vouch for BUT it comes with the new challenge of balancing the options because if one is significantly easier than the other it become a non-choice and equivalent to just nerfing it to something easier, thus changing the mechanic to the easier option). At some point they have to draw the line and say “You have to be able to do this if you want x, so people who earn x feel accomplished”
The balancing kind of concept seems beyond the scopes of this game design/funding, and has proven to be for years, returning to the “you choose this hobby” idea.
Another separate issue that plays a role is the game development/publishing itself. The game lacked “endgame” and the forums were filled with “nothing to do” by leavers. GW1 was better is also a popular saying among a group of vets. Anet is under NCsoft, NCsoft axes games if they don’t make enough money. Ergo attempting to cater to a larger audience in order to improve numbers. GW1 style long term grind that can be bypassed with a large sink and wealth redistribution. Completely ignoring what you and I think about this “solution”, there is probably reasoning behind the design decisions (need some higher cut-offs, whether they be grinding or skill). This reasoning is both unknown and confounding.
Stupid real life comparison example because they’re mandatory or something:
I have difficulty breathing in high moisture, so I don’t pick up the hobby Soccer player in a coastal region, despite being a soccer player before in a desert region. If I did, then would it be fair if I ask the ref to make walking the only method of moving. Taking it a step further, if I was wheelchair bound, do I join the regular club and ask for the entire game to be brought down to my level to make it so I have an “equal” chance (walking/slow so I can keep up, no headers, no jumping, surfaces must be accessible, no slide tackles, etc etc)? Its not like I’m asking for special privileges, let’s just make it so everyone can do it starting by catering to my group. I mean, its a game, we should all have an equal chance, right?
Its just being fair right, everyone walks at my speed so we can all compete. Equality!
[The farfetched example completely falls apart because there are similar games that do cater to my theoretical handicap group, but if you keep it within the limits I used I think its fair.]
Sorry for the wall of text.
TL;DR Although we should be nice and constructive like OP says, OP’s views are idealistic and are inapplicable to the current issue. Its not easy to build equal encounters, let alone equal encounters requiring or rewarding skill. And there will always be someone who is excluded, so a line must be drawn somewhere.
Eh… I started to argue this again, but it’s getting too tedious. I’ll just say this one thing and then bow out: it saddens me to see so many people support exclusionary content in a holiday event.
OR they COULD make it even MORE grindy and easier.
Well, they COULD also make it both less grindy and easier, but they won’t. It’s about decisions. They have choices, but they chose to make it the way it is.
Not easier, equal. We should all have an equal chance to get things in this game.
It was nice to read your idealistic writing, but you can’t make anything skill based and give everyone an equal chance by the definitions your posts strongly suggest, so I have to disagree with even though the spirit of your post comes from a good place.
Your entire argument is the core validation for catering to the lowest denominator, which doesn’t work in the current scenario.
You are putting the choice between the disabled person being able to enter on equal ground to get an optional shiny, and the fun of good jumper being rewarded for his ability.
TL;DR Although we should be nice and constructive like OP says, OP’s views are idealistic and are inapplicable to the current issue. Its not easy to build equal encounters, let alone equal encounters requiring or rewarding skill. And there will always be someone who is excluded, so a line must be drawn somewhere.
I read 3 things from the OP:
1. OP isn’t calling for anything to change, just saying that we shouldn’t be so harsh on the people who come here and say they can’t do the thing.
2. OP seems frustrated that people are treating others this way. Particularly around Christmas.
3. (I agree with you) OP is being idealistic. But maybe Christmas is the time for inclusion and kindness, and the whole rest of the year can be for more exclusive things. Maybe idealism is okay at Christmas. OP did seem to focus on the whole Christmas aspect all throughout his post.
People in this thread have pointed out that some players look forward to Christmas all year. Maybe this is the one time we can lean more toward inclusion than exclusion.
We can argue the merits of where to draw that line in content in general. But this isn’t “content in general.” It’s Christmas holiday content. A lot of people seem to agree that it’s a time of year that should be a bit more inclusive and understanding.
I agree that we can’t make everything usable by everyone all the time. But GW2 has a really wide fanbase. Christmas is supposed to be for everyone. Ingame we’re even including the orphans in all the hard-to-reach places by seeking them out to give them Christmas presents. So it seems to fit with the “inclusion” theme as well.
People in this thread have pointed out that some players look forward to Christmas all year. Maybe this is the one time we can lean more toward inclusion than exclusion.
We can argue the merits of where to draw that line in content in general. But this isn’t “content in general.” It’s Christmas holiday content. A lot of people seem to agree that it’s a time of year that should be a bit more inclusive and understanding.
I think this is OP’s sentiment for Christmas, and what this thread is really all about.
I agree. I would have no problem with holiday-specific content being easier and more accessible in general to the players in the spirit of the season.
Again, what it looks like to me is that Anet is overreaching in their attempts to keep players busy. Like they’re worried a large portion of the population will leave if there aren’t long, drawn-out grindy things to do like drink 10,000 drinks for a holiday event.
OP is wrong. And this is just a bad idea in general.
Here is why – this is a video game and the developers are human. That means they CANNOT write code that takes into account the disability/time limitations of a player and adjust the content accordingly. They do not have magic abilities.
What they COULD do is either give the content away (likely what the OP really wants) OR they COULD make it even MORE grindy and easier.
Both of these solutions suck. The idea here is that this item is something special – for someone who puts in the time and conquers the challenges of the festival. That is a good idea – as developers do want to reward the best players. That encourage more people to play.. Exclusivity is GOOD for a game.
Just ask Blizzard with their raiding for everyone mantra how their NA market is compared to even Vanilla WoW..
Listen to wrong people and your game will crater. There are legions of people that just want ‘stuff’ and when they get it – they just quit because there is nothing to do. Caving into these people is a disaster.
And how were WoW’s raiding stats and subscribers in Burning Crusade and Lich King compared to Vanilla, when they started bringing in smaller raids which were much more accessible? (Rewards for 10-person raids were lesser, but not to a very punitive degree. This allowed far more people to access the raid content – much of which was very well done – than in Vanilla.)
Comparing numbers now, when the game is over 10 years old, the MMO market is vastly more diverse and saturated, with how things were at launch is a disingenuous comparison, IMO.
Well Anet has certainly cut down my tree by changing their philosophy on platforming. I actually enjoyed earning skins previous to HoT. Now that platforming is involved not so much.
You understand that you are still not required to actually do any platforming right? You can go through the entire game, experience every map and you still wont ever need to do any platforming. But those who enjoy platforming as well should be rewarded for their efforts. It’s like Dungeons, The very best stuff in the game is in dungeons. I hate dungeons with a passion, so I don’t go in dungeons. I don’t go on the forums and whine that I should get those things too despite being unwilling to put in the effort to do them. Dungeon runners go the extra mile and they should be rewarded for it.
I completely agree that if actual game content were gated behind a platform, like part of a map or something then you would be absolutely right, I’d be right there with you. But there is nothing but a single skin designed to be acquired only by the most elite of us gated behind that platform…one skin…and people are losing their minds over that. Its ridiculous…
“Designed to be acquired only by the most elite of us” – and there is no problem if people with disabilities are completely shut out from attempting to join this elite cadre? It’s not a problem if people with disabilities are left behind, because, “welp, they’ll never be good enough by able-bodied standards, so who cares about them?Sucks for them, but being awesome is only for us able folks.” That kind of attitude stinks.
I appreciate that the nature of human ability is such that no game can necessarily accommodate every single person in every single way, but including things which are known to cause problems for a number of people as part of a holiday achievement, without providing any kind of alternative, is kind of stingy and discriminatory. In years past, and in other games, festivals often have a little leeway so that if there is a particular quest or event a person cannot manage (or just plain hates to do), they’re not barred from finishing. I honestly don’t see what that would take away from anyone else, especially if the more challenging content, like the JP continued to give its own rewards.
Laurelinde & Cookie/Beorna Bearheart
[TWG] – Gunnar’s Hold Always remember Wheaton’s Law
Hi, I’m Star Wars bot. Have you enjoyed the film so far? Good. Were you paying attention? Lets find out. If you cannot the following 10 questions perfectly you cannot watch any more of the film.
Btw, did I mention you need to answer all 10 of them perfectly, 100 times?
I was going to bother getting the item… but I realistically looked at how much use I would have gotten with it. I’ve come to the conclusion that the snow effect just doesn’t suit any of my characters, and the only reason why I would bother getting it is for the elitism.
So I’m just messing about, selling drinks when I’m bored and doing bits of the achievement when I feel like it. I’ll probably be able to get it next Wintersday or the one after that. It really doesn’t matter to me.
But I can understand the frustration of those that truly want it because it suits their characters. If it was realistically doable all year round it would have been cool, but time limiting it is unfair. Nightfury is rather difficult to achieve due to all the materials involved but I like how it’s no more difficult than crafting an legendary, and could be done on your own time. The Winter’s Presence skin is deceptively simple, just monotonous.
I like these holiday events as a means to mess about and have fun. Tying a carrot at the end of everything even related is silly to me. I feel for those who are burning themselves out instead of having fun. Although there is that small percentage who have fun burning themselves out.
I was going to bother getting the item… but I realistically looked at how much use I would have gotten with it. I’ve come to the conclusion that the snow effect just doesn’t suit any of my characters, and the only reason why I would bother getting it is for the elitism.
So I’m just messing about, selling drinks when I’m bored and doing bits of the achievement when I feel like it. I’ll probably be able to get it next Wintersday or the one after that. It really doesn’t matter to me.
But I can understand the frustration of those that truly want it because it suits their characters. If it was realistically doable all year round it would have been cool, but time limiting it is unfair. Nightfury is rather difficult to achieve due to all the materials involved but I like how it’s no more difficult than crafting an legendary, and could be done on your own time. The Winter’s Presence skin is deceptively simple, just monotonous.
I like these holiday events as a means to mess about and have fun. Tying a carrot at the end of everything even related is silly to me. I feel for those who are burning themselves out instead of having fun. Although there is that small percentage who have fun burning themselves out.
The skin would be perfect on a couple of my toons. Iu have 9/10 on the collection and the amount of time I’ve played this week so far, is the maximum amount of time I’ll have available each week. So far I have 371/10,000. This one achievement makes the skin literally impossible for me to achieve. I don’t make enough gold to buy the drinks, now or after winteresday when the price increases. One gift per day from the Tree is insufficent to make up the shortfall. ergo it’s literally impossible for me to manage it.
So much just…What? in this thread. The JP is only basic movement skills…. If that is a problem then how in the world do they enjoy the game on a regular basis I wonder? or is the new attempt after the 40 page 10k thread poofed. You aren’t meant to have everything that you don’t work for. Sure one person will be disappointed that they could achieve the goal but what about those who take pride by achiveing what other couldn’t? Whats the point if logging in unlocks everything?
4k/10k no store bought – I can’t even stop my own train
PS. han solo dies
Bender the offender – Proud violator of 17 safe spaces –
Be glad none of your family are Anet devs. You could spend all year looking forward to christmas. Carefully selecting fabulous gifts to spread joy and cheer, waiting to see the look of wonder on the children’s faces…
… then your Anet developer cousin shows up. Se tells you she’s got you something you might be able to make use of, but you have to clean the toilet 50 times regardless of how spotless it already is. But you can’t use any old toilet cleaner, he she gives you a list of precursor ingredients needed, doesn’t tell you where to get them from or how to use, later you find you have to also spend your own money buying them and more of it than you would earn in a year.
Outside there are some Christmas Carolers singing “What’s the matter, are you casual or something?”
As your jaw drops… she says “But you can also have this Glider I knocked up in about 45 minutes”
as for the drinks achievement we can earn it throughout the year instead only wintersday. Happy drinking everyone.
