Wish race elite would be viable

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Posted by: Firelysm.4967

Firelysm.4967

What title says. No one ever uses them:(

Wish I could get back to GW1.. PvP-GvG. It feels like we are outcasted, not desired or rewarded..

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Posted by: Tom Gore.4035

Tom Gore.4035

Some use the Norn Snow Leopard racial in WvW because it has silly escape ability.

Charrzooka is also fun in sieges. Especially if you’re a full melee warrior otherwise.

One – Piken Square

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Posted by: dekou.6012

dekou.6012

I think the reasoning behind them being subpar is quite solid. That being said, some racial elites are decent for some classes. For example, Hounds of Balthazar is useful in solo play for those whose classes only offer unwieldy/group-oriented elites.

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Posted by: aspirine.6852

aspirine.6852

I find most of the elites skills to be very very bad.

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Posted by: Rauderi.8706

Rauderi.8706

Warband Support’s pretty fantastic. But most of the others are Transformation type skills, and they haven’t been optimized for GW2’s combat style. They’re jerky and stiff and mostly don’t allow a character to move and attack simultaneously.

So yeah, bad.

Edit: Oh yeah, I’d forgotten about Hounds. Basically, adding dps minions is good, transformation is bad. =P

Many alts; handle it!
“I’m finding companies should sell access to forums,
it seems many like them better than the games they comment on.” -Horrorscope.7632

(edited by Rauderi.8706)

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Posted by: Danikat.8537

Danikat.8537

You can still use them, just not for things where you need an optimal build.

I use them quite often in open-world PvE and solo story missions. Especially because I mainly play a ranger and our go-to elite is Rampage as One which just gives a bunch of boons. It’s useful, but not very interesting so where I can get away with a sub-optimal build (or even more sub-optimal than my normal build) I like to use something more ‘flashy’ like the norn transformations, Hounds of Balthazar or the Mistfire Wolf.

Sometimes I use the racial utilities as well, although some of them can be quite dull as well as not that useful which somewhat defeats the point for me.

Danielle Aurorel, Dear Dragon We Got Your Cookies [Nom], Desolation (EU).

“Life’s a journey, not a destination.”

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Posted by: Mizuki Kusanagi.6584

Mizuki Kusanagi.6584

I don’t have a lot of time for skills with a ~30s duration and a 3 minute cooldown :P

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Posted by: Knighthonor.4061

Knighthonor.4061

I would like Racials in general to be better.

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Posted by: cafard.8953

cafard.8953

The Norn bear charge and leopard sprint were useful, so they got nerfed. Don’t get your hopes up too much.

Olaf Oakmane [KA]
Save the Bell Choir activity!

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Posted by: Palador.2170

Palador.2170

My sylvari is a turret engineer, so he gets a lot of use out of the racial elite that summons 5 plant turrets. It just really works for him.

Other than that, I think all of mine run Mistfire Wolf most of the time.

Sarcasm, delivered with a
delicate, brick-like subtlety.

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Posted by: Dhemize.8649

Dhemize.8649

Does anyone remember the last time they used an asura elite that wasn’t used as a joke?

“Quick, jump in the power suit!” -said nobody ever.

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Posted by: cafard.8953

cafard.8953

Does anyone remember the last time they used an asura elite that wasn’t used as a joke?

The 7-series when it was bugged.

Olaf Oakmane [KA]
Save the Bell Choir activity!

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Posted by: Jana.6831

Jana.6831

Does anyone remember the last time they used an asura elite that wasn’t used as a joke?

“Quick, jump in the power suit!” -said nobody ever.

First few seconds * nodds wisely *

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Posted by: Sirendor.1394

Sirendor.1394

BRILLIANT. MOAAAR GOLEM.

Gandara – Vabbi – Ring of Fire – Fissure of Woe – Vabbi
SPvP as Standalone All is Vain

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Posted by: thehipone.6812

thehipone.6812

Does anyone remember the last time they used an asura elite that wasn’t used as a joke?

“Quick, jump in the power suit!” -said nobody ever.

I sometimes use the D-golem to facetank champs that are guarding a chest or skillpoint when I didn’t want to waste time killing. The southsun champ reef skelk (now an elite) used to get a daily D-golem punch to the face while I stole his treasures.

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Posted by: Olvendred.3027

Olvendred.3027

Racial skills are intentionally weak, so that you can pick any race without it affecting your gameplay (or desirability for groups, etc).

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Posted by: Xyonon.3987

Xyonon.3987

There was also a bug that norn mesmer cloud become a leopard and then dodge for another 100% damage clone leopard. You cloud become a 4-leo-army xD wrecking everything!!! xD
good ol’ times :P

I think racial elites should be free and available since lv1.

Ziggs Ironeye – Engineer | Madame Le Blanc – Mesmer | Mentor (PvE) | EU
“Mentoring engineers / mesmers and showing you what you can do with your fantastic class!
Just pm me for my advice! Always eager to help!”

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Posted by: Aidan Savage.2078

Aidan Savage.2078

Racial skills are intentionally weak, so that you can pick any race without it affecting your gameplay (or desirability for groups, etc).

The Druid Spirit for sylvari is pretty kitten effective imo. Reasonably tanky health, hits like a truck (with about the same speed sadly), immobilizes with it’s attack (up to 5 targets), and will also siphon conditions off it’s caster. All for 60 seconds. It’s immobilizing attack also makes it pretty useful in the grawl fractal when dealing with the shamans trying to punt the villagers.

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Posted by: Ayrilana.1396

Ayrilana.1396

Viable != optimal

I just wanted to point that out as I keep seeing that players are confusing the two.

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Posted by: Rauderi.8706

Rauderi.8706

Viable != optimal

I just wanted to point that out as I keep seeing that players are confusing the two.

The point the OP was trying to make is most racial elites aren’t even viable.
Then again, even most class elites are so conditional with such long cooldowns that they’re hardly worth the skill points invested in them.
/shrug

Many alts; handle it!
“I’m finding companies should sell access to forums,
it seems many like them better than the games they comment on.” -Horrorscope.7632

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Posted by: Ayrilana.1396

Ayrilana.1396

Viable != optimal

I just wanted to point that out as I keep seeing that players are confusing the two.

The point the OP was trying to make is most racial elites aren’t even viable.
Then again, even most class elites are so conditional with such long cooldowns that they’re hardly worth the skill points invested in them.
/shrug

Define viable. All I saw was that they were not viable with the reasoning that because nobody uses them. The race elites have uses although there are better options available.

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Posted by: Rauderi.8706

Rauderi.8706

Viable != optimal

I just wanted to point that out as I keep seeing that players are confusing the two.

The point the OP was trying to make is most racial elites aren’t even viable.
Then again, even most class elites are so conditional with such long cooldowns that they’re hardly worth the skill points invested in them.
/shrug

Define viable. All I saw was that they were not viable with the reasoning that because nobody uses them. The race elites have uses although there are better options available.

Not to be overly snarky, but define “better”. Better in a vertical way? Because then those skills are easily replaced. Better in a lateral way? As in the racial elites are incomparable to class elites because they do completely different things?
Where would racial elites be more useful than class elites?
While I understand the above statement that racial elites/skills need to be a bit underwhelming so that class is the major focus, if the racials just flat-out suck, why have them?

Many alts; handle it!
“I’m finding companies should sell access to forums,
it seems many like them better than the games they comment on.” -Horrorscope.7632

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Posted by: khani.4786

khani.4786

I love the seed turret elites. I want to see a full WvW Sylvari zerg drop their seed turrets all at once and watch stuff bleed to death. XD

They’re not the best skills, but they are FUN.

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Posted by: Ayrilana.1396

Ayrilana.1396

Viable != optimal

I just wanted to point that out as I keep seeing that players are confusing the two.

The point the OP was trying to make is most racial elites aren’t even viable.
Then again, even most class elites are so conditional with such long cooldowns that they’re hardly worth the skill points invested in them.
/shrug

Define viable. All I saw was that they were not viable with the reasoning that because nobody uses them. The race elites have uses although there are better options available.

Not to be overly snarky, but define “better”. Better in a vertical way? Because then those skills are easily replaced. Better in a lateral way? As in the racial elites are incomparable to class elites because they do completely different things?
Where would racial elites be more useful than class elites?
While I understand the above statement that racial elites/skills need to be a bit underwhelming so that class is the major focus, if the racials just flat-out suck, why have them?

Are stat combinations other than zerker not viable? Are signets, or other utilities for that matter, not viable in group play if they don’t benefit or synergize with the group?

Whether racial elites are ever more beneficial than class elites is irrelavent as viable and optimal are two separate things. You can have skills that are viable but not optimal just as you can have skills that are optimal. For quite some time FGS, was the optimal skills for Ele. Did this make all of the other skills not be viable?

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Posted by: DarkWasp.7291

DarkWasp.7291

Brings me back to the good old days. Not but a week after release, me, my brother and my friend all playing human characters in WvW.

We camped out near the spider lady skillpoint and tonic’d into a bird, a leopard and a boar.

Suddenly 7 people from another server showed up. BAM return to human form! BAM Hounds of Balthazar! BAM 5 of them instantly downed! We split up to chase the other two while my brother finished off the 5.

^ Uses Guild Wars 2 character screenshots for desktop wallpapers.

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Posted by: iSmack.1768

iSmack.1768

I use Reaper of Grenth (Human) on my Necro from time to time.

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Posted by: digiowl.9620

digiowl.9620

Those skills demonstrate the limitations of the skill balancing mechanics.

The only thing holding them back from being used is that they have cooldowns that are disproportionate to their effects.

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Posted by: Conncept.7638

Conncept.7638

Some use the Norn Snow Leopard racial in WvW because it has silly escape ability.

Charrzooka is also fun in sieges. Especially if you’re a full melee warrior otherwise.

Same thing with bear form, it used to be a 3000 range escape amazing for WvW, but it was nerfed down to 1600. Similarly Asuras have some of the best mesmer skills in the game, if only they had reasonable cooldowns. Hidden pistol also makes a pretty good engineer skill for static discharge builds.

Unfortunately, because of things like that, the devs are never going to allow them to be truly viable, and have added glaring flaws to each of the above mentioned skills that prevent them from seeing much play. Personally, I would be okay with seeing them removed from WvW, so they can at least be made useful in PvE.

EDIT: No, wait, in spite of what the wiki says and the patch notes that changed it, bear form’s charge is still 3000 range. I don’t understand why people don’t use this skill, it is more than double the range of any other escape or gap closer in the game.

(edited by Conncept.7638)

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Posted by: tigirius.9014

tigirius.9014

Join the club, the hidden pistol doesn’t pickup a single bonus to damage that engineers or thieves use for example.

Balance Team: Please Fix Mine Toolbelt Positioning!

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Posted by: DarkWasp.7291

DarkWasp.7291

Personally, I would be okay with seeing them removed from WvW, so they can at least be made useful in PvE.

For leveling, sure. As a PvE player I would not like seeing them become more useful after hitting 80. Not unless all races could go learn the other racial skills.

I DESPISE in other games where I pour everything onto one character and learn that there is one completely irreversible flaw that requires me to reroll entirely to reach peak effectiveness.

^ Uses Guild Wars 2 character screenshots for desktop wallpapers.

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Posted by: Dinks.2478

Dinks.2478

I wish elite skills in general would be viable. In GW1 you built your whole build around your elites. In GW2 your elite is a tacked on part of your build and in most cases you won’t even use it because it is either useless or so situational it only has a use once in a blue moon.

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Posted by: Rauderi.8706

Rauderi.8706

Are stat combinations other than zerker not viable? Are signets, or other utilities for that matter, not viable in group play if they don’t benefit or synergize with the group?

Whether racial elites are ever more beneficial than class elites is irrelavent as viable and optimal are two separate things. You can have skills that are viable but not optimal just as you can have skills that are optimal. For quite some time FGS, was the optimal skills for Ele. Did this make all of the other skills not be viable?

Sigh. I’m just gonna leave this here.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e31OSVZF77w
The argument goes beyond “Can I use this to PHIWdurpdurp?” Don’t argue semantics of “viable” versus “optimal”. That’s irrelevant.
The most pertinent line of questioning is: What situations exist where it would be preferable to use skill X instead of other skills? Is Skill X useful in a high-pressure situation? Is Skill Y useful for counter-play? If Skill X is useful and Skill Z has the same utility, why use one over the other?
For Great Justice vs Battle Roar, to use a non-elite example.
FGJ:
Grant fury and might to yourself and allies.
Fury: 8 s Might 3: 25 s Number of Targets: 5 Radius: 600 Cooldown 25s
Battle Roar:
Let out a battle roar, giving fury and might to nearby allies.
Fury: 6 s Might 2: 15 s Number of Targets: 5 Range: 1,200 Cooldown 25s

For a warrior, For Great Justice is almost clearly superior, except in range. In a small, tight group, there’s no reason not to use it. Warrior also gets the possibility of traits that further enhance it. Unless your group is known for spreading out wide, it clearly makes Battle Roar obsolete. (Or be weird and stack the two. /shrug)
But for another character, that may be one of the few ways to be a source of good buffs (ie, Thief). This becomes a choice of incomparables for the player: take a less-optimal offensive party buff, or find something else in the class list that solves the same problem differently (vulnerability stacking) or provides counter-play for another problem.

Thing is, a lot of the racial elites are kind of WTF in that problem solving framework.

Many alts; handle it!
“I’m finding companies should sell access to forums,
it seems many like them better than the games they comment on.” -Horrorscope.7632

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Posted by: Ayrilana.1396

Ayrilana.1396

Are stat combinations other than zerker not viable? Are signets, or other utilities for that matter, not viable in group play if they don’t benefit or synergize with the group?

Whether racial elites are ever more beneficial than class elites is irrelavent as viable and optimal are two separate things. You can have skills that are viable but not optimal just as you can have skills that are optimal. For quite some time FGS, was the optimal skills for Ele. Did this make all of the other skills not be viable?

Sigh. I’m just gonna leave this here.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e31OSVZF77w
The argument goes beyond “Can I use this to PHIWdurpdurp?” Don’t argue semantics of “viable” versus “optimal”. That’s irrelevant.
The most pertinent line of questioning is: What situations exist where it would be preferable to use skill X instead of other skills? Is Skill X useful in a high-pressure situation? Is Skill Y useful for counter-play? If Skill X is useful and Skill Z has the same utility, why use one over the other?
For Great Justice vs Battle Roar, to use a non-elite example.
FGJ:
Grant fury and might to yourself and allies.
Fury: 8 s Might 3: 25 s Number of Targets: 5 Radius: 600 Cooldown 25s
Battle Roar:
Let out a battle roar, giving fury and might to nearby allies.
Fury: 6 s Might 2: 15 s Number of Targets: 5 Range: 1,200 Cooldown 25s

For a warrior, For Great Justice is almost clearly superior, except in range. In a small, tight group, there’s no reason not to use it. Warrior also gets the possibility of traits that further enhance it. Unless your group is known for spreading out wide, it clearly makes Battle Roar obsolete. (Or be weird and stack the two. /shrug)
But for another character, that may be one of the few ways to be a source of good buffs (ie, Thief). This becomes a choice of incomparables for the player: take a less-optimal offensive party buff, or find something else in the class list that solves the same problem differently (vulnerability stacking) or provides counter-play for another problem.

Thing is, a lot of the racial elites are kind of WTF in that problem solving framework.

You’re arguing something beyond what my argument was about.

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Posted by: Chameleon Dude.1564

Chameleon Dude.1564

Avatar of Grenth.

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Posted by: rhapsody.3615

rhapsody.3615

Does anyone remember the last time they used an asura elite that wasn’t used as a joke?

“Quick, jump in the power suit!” -said nobody ever.

I use the golem in certain fights… He seems to draw most of the aggro.

I wish ele elites were viable ._.

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Posted by: Jerus.4350

Jerus.4350

Does anyone remember the last time they used an asura elite that wasn’t used as a joke?

“Quick, jump in the power suit!” -said nobody ever.

I use the golem in certain fights… He seems to draw most of the aggro.

I wish ele elites were viable ._.

Funny that you’d post this, Earth Ele elite is a better version of the defensive golem.

Though yeah, both are used to great effect in say uncatagorized fractal on Old Tom, general “hide behind this” stuff.

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Posted by: IndigoSundown.5419

IndigoSundown.5419

I’ll offer that I find uses for both Thieves’ Guild and Dagger Storm, and would be hard pressed to find a normal utility skill to replace either. I’ve tried most of the racial elites, and would gladly slot a normal utility skill over them.

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Posted by: TurtleofPower.5641

TurtleofPower.5641

Elites are one of the worst gameplay problems still to persist.

They’re supposed to augment that terribly limited skill system, and instead you find your elite is a cheap inflatable toy that lasts 5 seconds.

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Posted by: Palador.2170

Palador.2170

Elites are one of the worst gameplay problems still to persist.

They’re supposed to augment that terribly limited skill system, and instead you find your elite is a cheap inflatable toy that lasts 5 seconds.

There’s a joke to be made there, but it would likely get me banned…

Anyway, back to the topic at hand. What if they allowed the elite skill slot to be used for a utility OR healing skill instead? Not only would this open up a wide range of possibilities for people, but it would increase the amount of useful things you can do with the slot, making it more powerful in general. Thus, the racial elite skills could also be made more powerful without them becoming the “must have” for the slot.

Sarcasm, delivered with a
delicate, brick-like subtlety.

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Posted by: Aidan Savage.2078

Aidan Savage.2078

Second healing skills would be too overpowered. Look at engis. If they run enhanced performance and HGH, the healing elixir gives them 5 stacks of might, but healing turret gives them 3 (maybe 6 if triggered immediately, not sure of any ICD). Add in a second healing skill and engis can now suddenly stack 11 stacks of might in a heartbeat. It’d be just as bad with classes like necros. consume conditions AND signet of vampirism? That’s just asking for a lot of things to be broken.

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Posted by: funkylovemonkey.3097

funkylovemonkey.3097

Honestly, I would like just any elite that I could use regularly. The only elites I use occasionally are the ones that help resurrect other players like the warrior banner. For the most part elites in GW2 are so useless, I would rather have just another slot for a non-elite utility skill.

Or maybe I just miss GW1 elites that were the cornerstone of most builds.

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Posted by: Ardenwolfe.8590

Ardenwolfe.8590

Let me keep out the Hounds of Balthazar permanently, and I’ll never remove it from my action bar. Heck, let me just keep out one permanently and I’ll be happy.

Shoot, change it to affect the pet instead into a super-powered nut permanently and we’ll really be talking.

Gone to Reddit.

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Posted by: Brannidus.4175

Brannidus.4175

I would love the racial skills to act more like title basedPVE-only skills of gw1, and by that I mean that they are incredibly strong, but only useable in pve. ill take not using them in wvw if it means I can go bear form and not lose dps.

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Posted by: naiasonod.9265

naiasonod.9265

I find most of the elites skills to be very very bad.

Ditto. It’s somewhat comical to me in fact. They’re typically garbage that’s just another button to hit, with CD’s that are invariably much too long to be part of rotational play and often too short of duration to be reliable for much.

Certain elites are good, but frankly, I look at some and I just cannot for the life of me comprehend how anyone thought at least half of them were even good ideas.

Anet really needs to figure out that pitiful isn’t fun.

One is only the smartest person in the room if they are alone.

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Posted by: Astral Projections.7320

Astral Projections.7320

I would also like to be able to use another utility skill in place of an elite. That would be actual useful, unlike the current elite skills which are elite in name only (and rarely used as using them seems to have little effect).

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Posted by: naiasonod.9265

naiasonod.9265

I would also like to be able to use another utility skill in place of an elite. That would be actual useful, unlike the current elite skills which are elite in name only (and rarely used as using them seems to have little effect).

That would be amazing. I’d never look at those farcical ‘elite’ skills again.

One is only the smartest person in the room if they are alone.