Guild Wars 2

Brings up some points that I have been thinking/feeling for quite a long time now. He has some great ideas and suggestions that I would LOVE to see in the game. Any thoughts?

Youtube Link: http://youtu.be/Vcykr_Gw0Go

Reddit Discussion: http://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/18p631/wooden_potatoes_on_guild_wars_2_and_feeling_hollow/

Question: What happens when you finish the quests? Does it go back to being hollow again? Even with a game that has been around for 8 plus years (like another mmorpg we all know) eventually you finish it all. People are expecting too much too soon from this game.

Well correct me if I’m wrong but I don’t think WP is proposing putting in the traditional kill 10 rats type of quests. What this is really about is vacant areas (such as in the towns) and there being no connection to them.

I agree with his points, but are we really seriously supposed to know who “WoodenPotatoes” is and have this feeling that his opinion somehow matters more than someone else’s? Why is this person relevant? Who cares? Just say “this guy said” or whatever. The internet gives so many people the false sense of importance

Someone else who disagrees with WP.

http://whyigame.wordpress.com/2013/02/17/gw2-traditional-quests-hell-no/

Though WP is quality.

StevesDad.8213:

I agree with his points, but are we really seriously supposed to know who “WoodenPotatoes” is and have this feeling that his opinion somehow matters more than someone else’s? Why is this person relevant? Who cares? Just say “this guy said” or whatever. The internet gives so many people the false sense of importance

A lot of Guild Wars fans know who WoodenPotatoes is. You might argue that not EVERYONE knows him, but not everyone knows who Jamie Foxx is either.

StevesDad.8213:

I agree with his points, but are we really seriously supposed to know who “WoodenPotatoes” is and have this feeling that his opinion somehow matters more than someone else’s? Why is this person relevant? Who cares? Just say “this guy said” or whatever. The internet gives so many people the false sense of importance

Well, his videos are really well put together and he has some provocative things to say. He is one of the few people I put any stock in when it come to GW2 from a fan perspective. Watch the videos, make your own call. He is correct that the game needs more things to draw players into cities and unused areas and it needs to expand its lore and story base to make it feel alive. But I feel they are aware of these things (the dev team), and that they will iron it out eventually. They created a huge wonderful background, now it’s just to wait to see how they improve and flesh out what they have created.

Ursan.7846:

Someone else who disagrees with WP.

http://whyigame.wordpress.com/2013/02/17/gw2-traditional-quests-hell-no/

Though WP is quality.

I agree with this reply!

While WP has some good points, I don’t really see how GW2 is hollow compared to other MMOs (Which I- in my opinion-think are hollow)

StevesDad.8213:

I agree with his points, but are we really seriously supposed to know who “WoodenPotatoes” is and have this feeling that his opinion somehow matters more than someone else’s? Why is this person relevant? Who cares? Just say “this guy said” or whatever. The internet gives so many people the false sense of importance

I get the impression that he doesn’t “get” the game on a very basic level.

I’m in the KITTEN NO to traditional linear quests crowd

killcannon.2576:

StevesDad.8213:

I agree with his points, but are we really seriously supposed to know who “WoodenPotatoes” is and have this feeling that his opinion somehow matters more than someone else’s? Why is this person relevant? Who cares? Just say “this guy said” or whatever. The internet gives so many people the false sense of importance

Well, his videos are really well put together and he has some provocative things to say. He is one of the few people I put any stock in when it come to GW2 from a fan perspective. Watch the videos, make your own call. He is correct that the game needs more things to draw players into cities and unused areas and it needs to expand its lore and story base to make it feel alive. But I feel they are aware of these things (the dev team), and that they will iron it out eventually. They created a huge wonderful background, now it’s just to wait to see how they improve and flesh out what they have created.

Yeah, totally with all of that. If you just walk around and explore the world there’s so many things and it looks really, really well done… but a lot of the “things” are mere dolls and seemingly movie sets with no real purpose.

Karizee.8076:

StevesDad.8213:

I agree with his points, but are we really seriously supposed to know who “WoodenPotatoes” is and have this feeling that his opinion somehow matters more than someone else’s? Why is this person relevant? Who cares? Just say “this guy said” or whatever. The internet gives so many people the false sense of importance

I get the impression that he doesn’t “get” the game on a very basic level.

I’m in the KITTEN NO to traditional linear quests crowd

I agree, but watch the rest of the video. If you have played FF12 it really really makes sense

While quest do add a sense of depth, its only for a short period. Once you’ve done all the quest in a zone it becomes kinda useless. This is where events can take over.

Meta events and DE with suitable awards will help get players back into zones. I’m a strongy supporter of rewards from doing dynamic events that are unique to each zone.

Mini games are also a way to add a lot of depth to areas

Meta events having more impact on the zone are also better. While temples are a start of this, there could have been better ways to do it. Like in Malchors leap, if you take Jinx island the NPCs there could erect a large Asura cannon/artillery cannon. This will then randomly fire in a large portion of the map, providing fire support to any other characters that are leveling/questing. Another idea is maybe in Cursed Shore when you take over that one dock that is also a outpost, Pact ships can then move into the area and do a similar then to the Asuran cannon. Randomly rain down cannon balls in certain parts of the map.

Even do something where certain bosses, if left alive, give buffs to enemies. Like zho’qafa catacombs. Put a cooldown on that event and make it so that if you dont do it, the enemies may have a small buff to their damage or something. But again, having zone specific rewards can help largely in getting players to continually play the game. Laurels are a step in the right direction, however the acquisition of these and lack of variety makes for some boring non spread our gameplay.

Ursan.7846:

Someone else who disagrees with WP.

http://whyigame.wordpress.com/2013/02/17/gw2-traditional-quests-hell-no/

Though WP is quality.

A very good rebuttal. I usually agree with woodenpotatoes but I only agree in part to this current topic, pretty much along the lines of this particular blog.

Again, I agree with the premise of the issue, just not with WP’s solution.

I think the thing making it “hollow” is that the only reason to stay in a zone after you’ve gotten 100% completion is:
a) You’re farming on Cursed Shores
b) You’re doing your dailies in a starter area

ArenaNet needs to implement a feature that makes players feel productive in any region of any map, so that players can stay and play in the regions they like the most.

That way, the same kinds of players will gather in spots, and more chances to make friends will arise.

Currently, the game has us all acting like drifters.
People have to really go out of their way to talk and add people before they run off to whatever else they’re doing. Guilds don’t solve this issue either, you didn’t meet them in the open-world, you meet most of them through planned events or dungeons.

—

I don’t think GW2 needs traditiona Exclamation quests.

It just needs something repeatable in zones besides dynamic events. Like making Hearts completable.

I think that npc should be more then just quest walls and that this is the move for all rpgs the move away from the random npc giving you a quest out of no where. Think about it why would a person who dose not know you tell you every thing about there life and how you should make it better? The quest it self given to you by an npc is to go into a zone and help and you can now help you feel fit by doing events.

Side note if you read into what npc tell you and what happens to events you will find a great story behind it vs just simply running an even for the exp/gold etc… and chaining them mindlessly. Simply put its up to you to make the game have some beef to it not the game and ppl are being some what lazy about it they are too use for every thing to be done for them both when it comes to fun and having an “expertise” in life.

While the thought of traditional “kill x” scares away many, WP didn’t mean those kind of traditional quests. Rather, I agree with WP on the matter of having more ways to interact with the world and making stick to the player’s mind more IE: the option to repair the tank in the Iron Marches.

Personally, I remember that I did that event and got the town clothing reward of a bandanna and thought that it was pretty cool.

To me, something like that stuck to me because I did that (for lack of a better term) “mini quest” without knowing full well what was genuinely in it for me. The only thing the NPC said was that he’d make it worth my while and so I pursued it to see what would happen.

Edit: To clarify, I think WP meant he didn’t the traditional quests involving:

1. Killing x amount of things
2. Collecting x amount of things
3. Kill something and bring something back

Instead, he meant he would want more of those mini one-time per character events that would add more context, lore, or information surrounding the environments such as the charr tank.

If anyone was curious, check out the NPC here: http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Riff_Sootclaw

StevesDad.8213:

I agree with his points, but are we really seriously supposed to know who “WoodenPotatoes” is and have this feeling that his opinion somehow matters more than someone else’s? Why is this person relevant? Who cares? Just say “this guy said” or whatever. The internet gives so many people the false sense of importance

This.

I’m not sure why Wooden Potatoes should have more say than any Iron Tomatoes out there on a personal opinion about how he would personally enjoy the game and what he personally does not like of it.

Go comment on his video if you care about his opinion, GW2 community has a whole cares of the community’s whole opinion and no Steel Broccoli out there represents the community.

If he feels hollow that’s his problem, doesn’t make it an objective issue of everyone just because the guy has, uh, 6k views?
GW2 is played by 3 million people.

Red Falcon.8257:

StevesDad.8213:

I agree with his points, but are we really seriously supposed to know who “WoodenPotatoes” is and have this feeling that his opinion somehow matters more than someone else’s? Why is this person relevant? Who cares? Just say “this guy said” or whatever. The internet gives so many people the false sense of importance

This.

I’m not sure why Wooden Potatoes should have more say than any Iron Tomatoes out there on a personal opinion about how he would personally enjoy the game and what he personally does not like of it.

Go comment on his video if you care about his opinion, GW2 community has a whole cares of the community’s whole opinion and no Steel Broccoli out there represents the community.

If he feels hollow that’s his problem, doesn’t make it an objective issue of everyone just because the guy has, uh, 6k views?
GW2 is played by 3 million people.

Maybe his vid is being posted around forums & message boards because he is trying to drum up more viewers, lol.

His opinion doesn’t mean so much as the presentation of said opinion. I personally don’t like the idea of adding traditional quests, yet I feel like many in this thread are saying his opinion simply doesn’t matter. Who’s opinion DOES matter then? We have to give credence to something besides the developers who are not infallible and have a different perspective than any given player. While maybe not this idea, good ideas are to be supported. The phrasing by some of you make it like no idea should ever be rallied behind and we should all chaotically post our own ideas that can individually never get any recognition.

TLDR. World feels empty, but traditional quests are not the answer.

Yeah the fact is, it is hollow. ANet encourage exploration but bar the vistas there is no real point to it beyond traditional map completion.

DanteZero.9736:

Edit: To clarify, I think WP meant he didn’t the traditional quests involving:

1. Killing x amount of things
2. Collecting x amount of things
3. Kill something and bring something back

Instead, he meant he would want more of those mini one-time per character events that would add more context, lore, or information surrounding the environments such as the charr tank.

If anyone was curious, check out the NPC here: http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Riff_Sootclaw

You mean something along the lines of your personal story? I think it’s already in-game.

Draehl.2681:

His opinion doesn’t mean so much as the presentation of said opinion. I personally don’t like the idea of adding traditional quests, yet I feel like many in this thread are saying his opinion simply doesn’t matter. Who’s opinion DOES matter then? We have to give credence to something besides the developers who are not infallible and have a different perspective than any given player. While maybe not this idea, good ideas are to be supported. The phrasing by some of you make it like no idea should ever be rallied behind and we should all chaotically post our own ideas that can individually never get any recognition.

TLDR. World feels empty, but traditional quests are not the answer.

I don’t believe traditional quests are bad by default, it’s how you implement it.

For instance the current 0/25 kill aquatic mobs, 0/10 kill rats etc are plain and simple old fetch quests that I think every gamer got tired of.
Sure they will change it to “pick whatever you like” but it’s actually “pick from this bundle of fetch quests what you feel is the least annoying”.

A quest like GW1’s Galrath Infamy isn’t bad tho, or the quests in the Furnace.
Those were good traditional quests.

I think that a way for the NPCs to point you in the general direction of far off events, and some kind of log to keep the ones you deem interesting in, would cover what he is talking about without going all out traditional quests on the game.

Heck, a way to maintain a list of places of interest would help the game as well.

Right now once the world completion has been done (or as close to as someone who will likely never wander into wvw can get), it is quite easy to become overwhelmed by the sheer size of the open world. And the waypoint costs are not exactly helping when it comes to random exploring, unless you know you can recoup the travel costs, or perhaps land a small profit, while over there.

There seems to be a misconception as to what the video and WP’s point of view was. It wasn’t to introduce traditional quest lines in place of or in higher importance of DEs or Renown Hearts. It was a way to make the areas that aren’t visited such as towns and parts of the open world which are not focal points of events relevant to the general player populace, places where DEs and Hearts wouldn’t fit in. By putting simple quest mechanics into some areas to make them seem more alive and expand and build upon the lore of the Guild Wars universe it does make a better game experience. As to why he is relevant or not, that is a matter of personal preference. I find his videos to be informative and well conceived, and not full of the usual personal hyperbole that is commonly found on the youtube platform.

Pizz.3698:

DanteZero.9736:

Edit: To clarify, I think WP meant he didn’t the traditional quests involving:

1. Killing x amount of things
2. Collecting x amount of things
3. Kill something and bring something back

Instead, he meant he would want more of those mini one-time per character events that would add more context, lore, or information surrounding the environments such as the charr tank.

If anyone was curious, check out the NPC here: http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Riff_Sootclaw

You mean something along the lines of your personal story? I think it’s already in-game.

Personal story involves instances and loading said instances, I think he (WP) meant events that are already a part of the zone. You didn’t have to go to a unique instance to speak to Riff (the NPC in the link).

I agree with killcannon. WP is suggesting more interaction with NPCs, not exclamation point quests. You wouldn’t even know which NPCs have something to tell you. It just adds a little more personality and feeling to areas without hearts/dynamic events/etc.

Saying WP doesn’t “get” GW2 on a basic level is like saying Socrates didn’t “get” philosophy, or Walter Payton didn’t “get” how to play running-back. And no, he wasn’t posting to the forums to “drum up views”. It was one of his fans. He’s got almost 1,000 GW videos starting since the release of the first GW, and after a week or so each of his videos consistently gets upwards of 15,000 – 50,000 views. If anyone who isn’t an actual GW dev “gets” GW, it’s WP.

Well they should add some “traditional” quests in the big cities at least. They don’t have either Hearts nor Dynamic Events, someone might argue that you visit them during your personal story, but the amount of time spent there is so little, while the cities look so alive. It’s a wasted opportunity to create some content for them, maybe to tie it into the personal districts as well, another feature that was so promising but failed.

Elrond.9486:

I agree with killcannon. WP is suggesting more interaction with NPCs, not exclamation point quests. You wouldn’t even know which NPCs have something to tell you. It just adds a little more personality and feeling to areas without hearts/dynamic events/etc.

Yeah that’s what I thought it was when I saw the video. I think the title of his video sort of misrepresents his point of the presentation.

Excellent video. I was thinking about this a while ago and came to the conclusion that excluding traditional quests entirely was a weakness. One of the greatest things about traditional quests is the “quest-chain” that can carry cross zone. It’s a side-storyline that can stay with you for a long time, and you can really get involved with, rather than a simple one step heart quest. Hopefully the living story turns out to be a worth substitute.

I feel he has a great point. I yearn for more interaction in the cities. The eye candy is wonderful, and the living dynamic world beckons me to engage. There is lots of opportunity for growth

No to Exclamation point ‘kill 10 x.’
Yes to rewarding world interaction with semi-hidden objectives.

the advantage quests have is that they can tell great stories, give you a lot of lore and take you through multiple zones.

Anet realized this by implementing the very successful Halloween-scavenger-hunt. I really think they did a good job with that.

still I don’t agree that we need quests – look at Ebonhawke. This city feels so much more alive than any other city in my opinion, because there are certain things there:
-) events!!
-) non-combat activities (in the form of hearts, but it could be done differently)
-) vistas
-) lore-related stuff via the cemetary – a lot of eastereggs
-) hidden books telling the story of Ebonhawke – finding all unlocks a hidden achievement

so in short, plenty of things to do there
see? tons of potential for the main cities – you don’t need quests for that. (Still sometimes I miss some Wall of Text – not much for lorefans but a few one-liners from NPCs)

Then again, Ebonhawke is part of a zone rather than a zone in its own right.

Prior to launch, we were promised a great number of activities which somehow never made it into the game. Bar fights, Polymock and other activities would have gone a way to making the cities feel more populous, more alive.

But honestly, as a denizen of Piken Square, I’ve got RPing for that xDD

Meh, I would rather have epic dynamic events that could occur at anytime in any part of Tyria. Similar to how I heard the rifts work in the Rift MMO.

Dynamic events really fell flat, but they have so much potential. I believe we already have the foundation there, ANet just need to work on making them epic (huge invasions or difficult boss type mobs tearing up the place, etc), occur at random times in random places and make them actually effect the world like they said they would.

Like the doors during Halloween and the Wintersday presents?

Btw, Cryptic has a good one in the desert zone in Champions Online. Basically a big baddie that jumps from place to place, attacking mobs and toons alike at each stop.

I agree with him in that sentence. GW2 is getting some short of “empty”, when we do cap, dungeons, story, etc… The game doesn’t feel right, it should be more “playable”.

Some short of story quests would be nice, that we can get from NPCs arround the major cities of the game. For instead tell us their stories in Text Windows, send us in a mini-adventure? arround Tyria.

As a few others have said here… having an NPC send you on a mini quest simply by talking to them. No visual hints or them running up to you asking for help.
If you walk up to them to talk they give you a story and you decide if you want to go on the quest.
I have seen a child crying and gone up to them only for them to send me on my way. How awesome it would have been to have that same child send me to look for something or someone just because I opted to talk to them. Or even more awesome for that child to be evil and send me to my peril in order to pay for their parents freedom from bondage from a slaver (there are plenty of those in Tyria already)
I think I’ve played too much Skyrim

I completely agree with the game feeling hollow, but I’m not really sure why it feels that way.

I think having unique music for different zones would maybe liven it up a little? As good a composer as Jeremy Soule is, I think they got really lazy with the music in that regard.

The generic npcs with no dialogue kind of kill the immersion at times too. They don’t give you a reason to remember most of the characters outside of the personal story, because the most interesting thing an NPC can do is sell you some stuff, and maybe say something that you chuckle at for a moment and then move on.

One thing that I thought was really done well in terms of the immersion factor is the pirate jumping puzzle in Lion’s Arch. The narration keeps it from feeling “empty” like a lot of the game does.

Sorry if my post ventured a little off-topic, I just wanted to give my opinion on the hollowness thing.

GW2 is like a chinese bot simulator at level 80. The game breaks down into stand in a big zerg circle and mash the 1 key on events in Orr. That is not a good game mechanic.

He’s right they need to flesh this game out and do something with these environments instead of LFG pent/shelt.

So terrible. And I love GW2 and see the potential but we need more. These new world story events have potential but hopefully it’s more exciting than Bob the Builder hit signs with a hammer in wayfarer foothills in these next few months.

I’ve thought about this since launch. Make some really good quests and it would have made the game way better.

I hope Anet will consider it in the futrure.

completely disagree with his assessment that DE’s are the problem, DE’s were fine and they gave them the tools they needed to add to them, but Anet decided they wanted to attract WoW players so instead of adding new DE’s like they claimed they would for 7 years before the game launched they focused on dungeons and a gear treadmill and temporary holiday events. THAT was the flaw.

I missed the traditional quest system long before this guy said it, i never had an issue with them and they worked a great deal better than hearts and Dynamic events.

You could do them multiple times, these hearts a one time deal and not always any better than quest people, you still need to run back to them to gain your loot..

The events don’t scale at all and you can’t do them solo and are breaking a lot, also Events don’t change the world at all like they were suppose too, maybe 5mins at best that bridge is out or the camp is safe…

a least kill 10 rats worked 24/7..

Innovation isn’t always a good thing..

StevesDad.8213:

The internet gives so many people the false sense of importance

There is something fundamentally wrong with a person who doesn’t think that they, themselves, are important. In fact, people with low self esteem are rather dangerous.
I have spent far to much time being told that everyone is the same, and that no one is better than anyone else. There is no motivation in such statements, no incentive to improve oneself. After all, if no one can be better, how can anyone improve?
I have come to realize that I am hugely important. I am, in fact, the most important person I know.

OR you could just add DEs inside of major cities instead of traditional quests.

I think what ties into content potentially feeling hollow is the fact that rewards in general are area-unspecific. It’s actually the opposite to what the direction of the game is concerning the “Living Story” and seasonal events stuff. Colin the Handsome said numerous times in interviews that Anet wants these events to feel unique and players should have something cool to remember after participating in them. Part of that uniqueness is created by unique rewards. The normal content in GW2 needs to scale, however, so it’s tricky to make unique rewards that give places more personality and distinctiveness…

Red Falcon.8257:

If he feels hollow that’s his problem, doesn’t make it an objective issue of everyone just because the guy has, uh, 6k views?
GW2 is played by 3 million people.

Agreed up to this point.

No, GW2 is not played by 3 million people. It has sold 3 million copies.

Yes, there is a difference.

I actually feel they’ve done a good job in creating a living world. When I look at, say, Divinity’s Reach, I just see a lot of potential to expand the experience. Don’t know that traditional quests are really the answer, but I trust that Anet has this on the radar as they’re focusing on story and world. It’ll be interesting to see how it develops.

If there is to exist anything close to traditional quests, then it should follow Personal Storyline, with some decent background, though as this would be harder it’d be better to have just a few “quests” (maybe legendary quests?).