Guild Wars 2

BEFORE YOU ANSWER

when you head into Citadel of Flames you have 3 choises
1. start lfg
2. go into explorable mode
3. go into story mode
now what if you had another choise(4) and its a 10 man raid.
instead of Anet making an entirly new difrante thing poped out, out of nowhere they could just add couple of new places in each dungeons new bosses and it should be harder then just a normal explorable mode and we will get abit more tokens and gold.
http://goo.gl/OyX10l

No.

But I don’t do dungeons, so it wouldn’t affect my gameplay either way.

Not really. Raids are not my thing.

No. The more people needed for content, the harder it is to find groups for it.

Not really. Open world events has always substituted raid type content.

Adding new paths to existing dungeons wouldnt hurt though.

Yes.

Don’t get me wrong, unless you’re Wow, MMOs shouldn’t really focus of Raids. WildStar had that problem. But one raid, with potentially awesome mechanics, for the hardcore, would be nice.

Hell, any new instanced content would be nice. I’d love to see what they’ve learned from open world and living story put into more focused, teamwork-requiring ways.

Honestly, why not have a raid?

those are far from the raids u know in wow, maybe im not using the right words but what i mean is. a dungeon for 10 people, doesnt have to be OP HARD but u know, u have a dungeon for 5 people and same for 10 people just harder then 5, u dont need to dodge flying blades while u stand on lava with 60 stacks of agony…… just i dono kill 2 bosses on each end of the map at same time if not 3rd boss spawn….

Their dungeon team was disbanded some time back. I doubt they are going to reassemble them or rebalance the dungeons they have from a 5 party difficulty to include a10 party difficulty. The raids I think they are planning to do will be Tequatl/Three Headed Wurm like open world raids.

so just press #1 until the foe is dead. Oh, i already feel a hero thinking about it!!!

I don’t think it would work they way you would like in GW2.

I would rather have more content for whole guilds to do like bountys… Like more and bigger bountys… Like WorldBoss bountys. A race in a miniDungeon and at the end there is a bounty boss that has to be killed. Mix guild activites a JP a Rush and end with a bounty.

Haha I just got a silly Idea, how about a real raid!? I mean you can choose option with the guild to start a real raid and when you do this will scale 1 dungeon of a choice alot and then you have (lets say) five-ten minutes to compleate this dungeon and during this time up to 50 guild members can enter the same dungeon and raid it, totaly Zerg it… Not less not more loot, enemies or traps than usuall, only scaled so they don’t die to fast and the hard thing should be to compleate it in time. That’s a raid!

Personally, one or two yes – but not the degree where it becomes a second job. (I’m looking at you WoW)

But i don’t think GuildWars 2 and its community are built to work on that sort of model.

People playing Guild Wars 2 are more…. ‘fluffy’ and would prefer jumping up cliffs for 100% map completion or inventing some crazy dye combination to look snazzy then have raids or things like that.

Not a complaint- i think Guild Wars has built a great community on those values and although we do have world events which is a close relation to raiding, the rewards are terrible, requires little communication/tactics relative to other games raiding content and is generally taken part in as a quick 5 minute job.

Lets not forget. Guild Wars was created with PVP in mind. Although i find that hard to believe in GW2 with the removal of HoH and actual Guild Wars. (WPVP doesn’t count before someone gets in there with that quip)

No thank you on raids.

No thanks. The idea doesn’t seem like a terrible one, though I just don’t see its purposeful application in GW2. We have massive open-world events and world bosses for that sort of thing.

No, i prefer more contents like Silverwaste

Dungeon or Raid are never my thing.

I dont really care but i never liked raids much.The less instanced gameplay = better .Open World wins.

Depends on the implementation of the raids.

If raids become the most lucrative activity of the game, I will call it bullkitten and boycott it.

Raids should be a niche content for really masochist players, that yields cosmetics rewards to allow them to show off.

No. I prefer outworld.

id like to see new 10 man raid style content not just a new room in a dungeon…

and id also want it only if the 10 people in it need to split up and work together instead of simply blobing up and zerging everything infront of them…

I think a raid content should be designed for more ppl not just a normal dungeon with more ppl… i want raid, but not this way

No thanks, not interested in raids.

Silverwastes is pretty much a zone-wide raid as is. You need a map full of people to hold four fortresses, then kill 4 champs at the same time, then finally coordinate 3 lanes to kill 3 more champions at the Vinewrath. All for the lootz. Sounds like a raid to me.

Yes – but only if the mechanics are interesting.

No but Id like Ancient Karka to come back with the same chance for precursor drops it had the one time we did have the actual event. That was problably the most fun I had ever in any MMO ever despite all the lag.

I want to say yes, but I haven’t done the ones available in WoW, so I can’t say I’d do them in GW2, either.
/shrug

No.

I really do not want 10 man raids in GW2.

I love the current direction of the game. They are getting much better at making the open world zones more engaging and interesting.

I came from wow and don’t mind the raiding. As a new gw2 player i an say i definitely love the open world raiding and events style of gw2 much more but at the same time, i like a challenging dungeon with mechanics that requires effort to learn, with an equally better reward at the end.

I wouldnt mind you know ONE or TWO raids like that.. but if it were to become the norm or average it would just be like wow, and that’s exactly what i was trying to get away from.

I’m happy with the current state of the game too, especially now we know there is an expansion inbound. I’m not sure making a 10-man raid of current dungeon paths would work, as it would probably just end up being more of a mini-zerg than anything new.

However – I could see a place for something novel, like a GW2 version of Fissure of Woe or the Underworld zones from GW where a larger team of 10-12 players would need to split up to master several objectives across the map. That could be interesting if it was done well.

No raids, please. If you want raids go play WoW. They have 4 raiding difficulty levels and usually release a new one every three months. I actually came back to this game because I don’t want to see another raid in my life.

yanipheonu.5798:

Honestly, why not have a raid?

1. Because it’s hard enough trying to get five people together for a twenty minute instance. The last thing I want at the end of the day is to scrape together 10 experienced players to fight a boss that hardly ever rewards loot anyway. If I want to participate in a raid like activity I’ll go run Teq. That’s only a half hour commitment (15 minutes of set up, 15 minutes of fight), he dishes out karma like it’s candy on Halloween, and I get about 5 chests at the end. That’s the kind of game this is, and it’s the kind of game most of us signed on for.
2. Time spent developing raids could be better spent working on living story or on new dungeons
3. Raiding is terrible return on investment. Raids are notoriously difficult to organize, and only the hardcore audience (which is not the targeted audience in this game) ever bothers to repeat them. In this game they would be something that players do one time before going back to their Silverwastes chest farming or WvW bag collecting. Note that even Wildstar, which had been hyping its emphasis on raiding prior to its release, backed off on that stance:

When Wildstar was launched, it was heavily toted as “hardcore” especially in the sense of raiding. It now appears Carbine is adjusting its view with both previous and this upcoming patch. I wanted to know whether this was a pivot away from hardcore or a resolve to “The Devs are listening.” The official word from Frost was “both”, after seeing the feedback and looking at gameplay analytics they found that there was a real need to focus on solo content.

No

Raids are only fun if you have an opposing faction that can stop you just like in WoW. Useless here since everybody is on the same side in pve…

To be honest, i can’t imagine people not being able to get 10 players, if you use the LFG system you often get insta full parties and you can do it with friends/guild aswell. Creating a game doesn’t only require hardcore nor casual. A game needs to be casual to attract more players to the game, however on the other hand it also needs to have a hard core side, a place where more experienced players are attracted to. These experienced players will not only improve the gameplay of the less experienced players, it will also attract extra players by showing all sorts of cool outnumbered fights, epic battles etc.

a good example to see how this balance system works is the MoP expansion. The skillcap lowered and because of that alot of hardcore players left the game. Because all those hardcore players left the game, the game itself got the reputation of easy as kitten, no fun at all anymore etc. Because of the negative reviews of the hardcore WoWérs the amount of players and income during this period declined.

Now the same goes for Gw2. We need to have a balance between hardcore and casual within the game. Currently there is barely any room for hardcore players except for WvW and PvP. Ofcourse there is a community of PvE speedclearers but if Anet doesn’t come up with new interesting combat systems etc, it will just become boring and in the end the hardcore PvE community would leave, causing major disadvantages for PvE.

I’m not saying that raids are the only way to create new high end content, (extra hard 5 man dungeons could fill in the spot aswell) but in general big raids can have alot more tactics and organisation then 5 man groups.

NO
Waste of time designing content only select few will ever see. Never understood why developers in other MMOs bother making stuff most of their customers will never see.

No.

I don’t see how this would work effectively in GW2. A lot of buff skills only apply to yourself and 4 allies- i.e. a whole party.

Start fiddling around with a party of 10 people and suddenly buff attribution gets extremely complicated.

To me, this idea seems pretty redundant anyway because it would be more of what we already have, just with larger numbers. It would just mean that the boss has more health and there are more foes in general. /yawn.

I’d only change my mind if there was revolutionary mechanics and interesting puzzles that properly required teamwork from all 10 team members. However, this requires communication. “Flawless communication” and “dungeon PUGs” don’t really belong in the same sentence; I feel that players who belong to small communities would lose out and wouldn’t be able to enjoy these dungeon-raids because of this obstacle.

No. Would rather see a second stronghold map.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/cdi/CDI-Guilds-Raiding/first

Quote from a buddy: “Eh. I find little desire to be in a large group of whiny strangers.”
:)

Granted, I realize it’d be more for medium-sized guilds, or large-large guilds with lots of active players, but that does mean small guilds and small teams lose out.

the krytan assassin.9235:

a good example to see how this balance system works is the MoP expansion. The skillcap lowered and because of that alot of hardcore players left the game. Because all those hardcore players left the game, the game itself got the reputation of easy as kitten, no fun at all anymore etc. Because of the negative reviews of the hardcore WoWérs the amount of players and income during this period declined.

What are you talking about??? The skillcap (i.e. the highest degree of skill required to complete the hardest level of game content) was raised in a big way in MoP. Since players were leaving in droves in Cataclysm they added easy-mode raiding for non-raiders. The fact is that non-raiders didn’t want raiding period. Not easy mode raiding, not hard mode raiding, not any raiding. The supposedly hardcore players who left the game on this pretext were just sore that others had an alternative to youtube for watching the end game cut scenes. Apparently it wasn’t enough that the heroic versions of raiding gear did literally twice the DPS of the LFR versions. They just didn’t feel as special anymore. But I digress.

the krytan assassin.9235:

Now the same goes for Gw2. We need to have a balance between hardcore and casual within the game. Currently there is barely any room for hardcore players except for WvW and PvP.

This is by design. Guild Wars and Guild Wars 2 have always targeted a casual audience. There are plenty of games out there that offer compelling content for hardcore players. The casual market is where this game is aiming.

the krytan assassin.9235:

Ofcourse there is a community of PvE speedclearers but if Anet doesn’t come up with new interesting combat systems etc, it will just become boring and in the end the hardcore PvE community would leave, causing major disadvantages for PvE.

There is no hardcore PvE community here. Speedclearing is not hardcore. Hardcore is a raid boss that wipes the entire party because one of the twenty five players in the group forgot to hit the “win” button at just the right time. I, for one, am happy that there are no onerous restrictions like that in this game. I doubt that a non-existent population of players would impact the game by leaving.

the krytan assassin.9235:

I’m not saying that raids are the only way to create new high end content, (extra hard 5 man dungeons could fill in the spot aswell) but in general big raids can have alot more tactics and organisation then 5 man groups.

Do you know how popular the Triple Trouble boss is? It’s not. Know why? Because it requires much more tactics and organization than five man groups. This game’s audience just doesn’t demand that level of play.

No. Open world zerging is just fine for me.

I’d like new, 5-person, instanced content instead. Short of that, I’d at least like them to revisit rewards of old dungeons and Fractals to give us a reason to keep doing them.

Of course yes.

Considering how many elements of the game could perfectly fit into Raids, the lack of Raids already in this game is almost a sin. Fighting bosses while one team has to do a jumping puzzles to activate the thing while other team defends the thing and another teamis defending the guys loading the thing.

15 people per Raid would be just fine. Rewards need to be equivalent to other content and that is, you will have just another content some people will enjoy. I don`t understand why this community is so afraid of change.

Wow so many vocal “No” here. First off, open world does not count as raids…

I personally would like a 10-man or a 5-man CHALLENGING raid-like content (but no, “if you forget to press one button, you lose” mechanic). Everything is wayyy to casual as it is…which is the core of the game, and I’m fine with that because I can be relaxed when I PvE, I have sPvP to satisfy my PvP competitiveness…partially.

That being said, the skillful players deserve something. There is nothing in the game that shows you are better player than others, except maybe Liadri and Tribulation Mode SAB weapons.

All that AP, Zerker Ascended Gear, etc. etc. Shows nothing about your quality as a player. Zero. Nada. It’s just time spent on the game.

Bernie.8674:

Do you know how popular the Triple Trouble boss is? It’s not. Know why? Because it requires much more tactics and organization than five man groups. This game’s audience just doesn’t demand that level of play.

It’s not that massively popular because it requires a HUGE group, with a few coordinated leadership. However in this context, 10-man is NOT a huge group. We are not asking for typical massive group raids. We are asking for a small organized raids.

Basically, my abilities are not being tested, my mind can go on zombie mode and clear content as it stands. Raids may or may not solve that. It’s not everyone cup of tea, but with SO MANY OPEN WORLD EVENT MAPS coming up, it baffles me how you can even complain about what a few skillful players would like to see in the game. Seriously, how selfish are you?

EDIT: Maybe raids can have NORMAL mode and HARD mode, with better more exclusive rewards locked in HARD mode. That way, the not so skillful players can still stroll through the normal mode, and those seeking challenge can do the hard mode and get rewarded appropriately. Everyone wins.

Please explain what a raid is. Is it just a dungeon for larger party? So is Deep/Urgoz raid? I just call it mission….

Alexander Dragonfang.1759:

15 people per Raid would be just fine. Rewards need to be equivalent to other content and that is, you will have just another content some people will enjoy. I don`t understand why this community is so afraid of change.

Many of us aren’t “afraid of change.” Quite the opposite. We’re tired of the same old same old. I played WoW for 5 years. When I left they had Looking for Raid, Flexible Raid, Normal Raid, Heroic Raid, and they were about to add Mythic Raid. Enough with the freaking raids already! Plenty of other games have raids. They’re a nuisance. What you just described is very much the way the Triple Trouble fight works, and from what I seen, it’s only a source of frustration for the new players who happen to stumble into it only to realize that the 8 players they roped into helping them are nowhere near enough to get the fight done. When something that’s already in the game clearly isn’t working, it’s silly to double down on it.

Avster.1935:

Basically, my abilities are not being tested, my mind can go on zombie mode and clear content as it stands. Raids may or may not solve that. It’s not everyone cup of tea, but with SO MANY OPEN WORLD EVENT MAPS coming up, it baffles me how you can even complain about what a few skillful players would like to see in the game. Seriously, how selfish are you?

World of Warcraft is calling to you. There are plenty of raids to be found there. I prefer that development resources in this game remain focused on content for everyone, not just on content for “a few skillful players.” There are plenty of other games out there that target that crowd. How selfish are you? Why do you want to turn the one casual game in the market into the same old raiding game that everyone else is doing? If you want raiding, please play one of the many others that provide it.

Avster.1935:

EDIT: Maybe raids can have NORMAL mode and HARD mode, with better more exclusive rewards locked in HARD CORE mode. That way, the not so skillful players can still stroll through the normal mode, and those seeking challenge can do the hard mode and get rewarded appropriately. Everyone wins.

The stuff in italics is exactly why I’m against raiding. First raiders want harder content. Then they want better rewards. Then they want even better rewards to sweeten the pot because otherwise there’s no way to get ten players to sign onto a 3 hour commitment on a weekly basis. Before you know it you have two categories of players: the ones in raid gear who do double the DPS of everyone else despite running the same rotations in the same way and the non-raiders who are looked down upon because they aren’t committed enough to have as good of gear. Thanks, but no thanks.

This thread doesnt make sense. Almost everyone who is saying no do not want raids full stop. If you dont do raids or dont want raids its an irrelevant discussion. And i think its rather selfish to vote against a type of content just because you personally wouldnt play it. I dont like or play pvp but i dont vote against new pvp maps and gametypes. And i really dislike open world zergable content but i also dont vote against that.

The better question would be. If we get raids what party size would you prefer?

For me personally i think 10 is the absolute maximum size. And then i would hope the raid encourages splitting. I like the 5 man instanced stuff, it doesnt clutter the fights with skill effects (too much) and it doesnt devalue the individual as much as a 10 man would. But then if they stayed kitten i guess people wouldnt consider them raids. They would just be new dungeons or something. So i guess overall id say yes for 10 man raids.

And just regarding the OP’s suggestion. I doubt existing dungeons provide the best place to implement raids. Would be better to create brand new stuff.

@Bernie
Noone said anything about 3 hour long raids. Or raid gear. We are just talking about more challenging instanced content. If its more challenging it should be more rewarding. I dont think thats unreasonable. You are trying to translate other MMO raids directly to GW2 rather than thinking of raids in terms of GW2.

Bernie.8674:

Avster.1935:

EDIT: Maybe raids can have NORMAL mode and HARD mode, with better more exclusive rewards locked in HARD CORE mode. That way, the not so skillful players can still stroll through the normal mode, and those seeking challenge can do the hard mode and get rewarded appropriately. Everyone wins.

The stuff in italics is exactly why I’m against raiding. First raiders want harder content. Then they want better rewards. Then they want even better rewards to sweeten the pot because otherwise there’s no way to get ten players to sign onto a 3 hour commitment on a weekly basis. Before you know it you have two categories of players: the ones in raid gear who do double the DPS of everyone else despite running the same rotations in the same way and the non-raiders who are looked down upon because they aren’t committed enough to have as good of gear. Thanks, but no thanks.

Do you even play GW2? There is absolutely no gear trend mill in this game. Since when did I ever state I want to be more powerful than you? That doesn’t show that I’m a better/skillful player. ANet even said in HoT announcement that there will be no gear grind involved. This is GW2 aka horizontal progression aka Skin Wars 2. Give me an exclusive skin or item that let’s others know of my feat.

Also of course we want better rewards, if we are willing to put in the time, commitment, and organize this, why shouldn’t we? Rewards attained from mindless zerging should not be equal to organized skillful play.

Have you ever heard of the concept of a guild? Maybe try gathering or joining a group of like-minded people, filling up dungeon parties has never been an issue.

Bernie.8674:

World of Warcraft is calling to you. There are plenty of raids to be found there. I prefer that development resources in this game remain focused on content for everyone, not just on content for “a few skillful players.” There are plenty of other games out there that target that crowd. How selfish are you? Why do you want to turn the one casual game in the market into the same old raiding game that everyone else is doing? If you want raiding, please play one of the many others that provide it.

First of all. What? Re-read what you just wrote. Just re-read it.

Why in the world would I go to WoW? I never played it, I never will. I absolutely hate gear grinding. Let me state it in bold so you don’t get confused again.

There is NO power creep in GW2 in terms of gear grinding

I never said I want to turn a casual game into raiding. Have you even read my previous post? There are plenty of open world event maps that are coming out, and you can’t even allow a few of us to enjoy fun, challenging content?

FYI – I also like the open world pve events. But raids are a different need.

Also this game is play how you want. Nothing is mandatory. You’re not forced to raid to advance in terms of power level.

Let me help you out. The only legitimate rebuttal that you have is that it “takes up resources that could have been used elsewhere”. Fine, okay. I can also say that I don’t like all the jumping puzzle (hypothetical, I actually enjoy JP) that they put in the game, since only a handful of people do them. So why waste resource on making more of them? See what I did there? None of us have concrete facts or numbers to dictate whether the allocation of such resources is a waste of time or not.

And no, I won’t play another game, because I absolutely love the GW franchise. So I will ignore all the imaginary callings, thank you.

I love how people are bringing up WoW as if GW2 can’t have anything that WoW has (ignoring that it already does!). GW2 already deviates from WoW in key ways that will never be changed such as not having a holy trinity. Not having instanced raids is not a good way for GW2 to be different from WoW. That’s just content GW2 doesn’t have that could be enjoyed by many. People asking for instanced raids to be introduced to GW2 do so because they like this game and its combat. Telling them to play WoW is nonsensical.

I would only support the idea of raids in GW2 if the numbers were flexible (scaling). Otherwise, as great as the content could be, it would just be a source of drama and hate – and I would be adamantly against it.

After raiding for years in other games, I came to GW2 specifically to get away from the atmosphere that kind of rigid set number content creates.

Now, if they can pull off raids in such a way that the numbers are flexible, the rewards are no better than any other content in the game and they are still extremely challenging, then Im all for them.

Otherwise, it is something that would inevitably toxify what is now an amazing game and community and I don’t want it (no matter how much I want more challenging group content).

Yes, I would like instanced raids.