Guild Wars 2

If mordremoth isn’t a raid, it will be another zhaitan flop

Blaeys.3102:

…Now, if they can pull off raids in such a way that the numbers are flexible, the rewards are no better than any other content in the game and they are still extremely challenging, then Im all for them…

But then no one would do them…We already know our player base is more prone to doing easy things for high rewards. Let this, for a change, be a hard thing for higher reward…

no…groups of 5 can be trouble enough.
I hope what they add is more maps/bosses like on silverwastes.

Taygus.4571:

no…groups of 5 can be trouble enough.
I hope what they add is more maps/bosses like on silverwastes.

Well rest easy, all new HoT maps will be like the sliverwastes.

The question is if we want to add raids on top of that.

Avster.1935:

Blaeys.3102:

…Now, if they can pull off raids in such a way that the numbers are flexible, the rewards are no better than any other content in the game and they are still extremely challenging, then Im all for them…

But then no one would do them…We already know our player base is more prone to doing easy things for high rewards. Let this, for a change, be a hard thing for higher reward…

If the content isnt fun/enticing enough to stand on its own sans higher rewards, then adding higher rewards would just create a “have to do that” atmosphere – yet another element of raids that lends to the hate and toxicity I referenced.

The bigger issue is the group size flexibility, imo (must have for larger groups), but creating better rewards for something only a small percentage of the population wants to do is just as toxic – leading to the have/have not mentality that drove many of us (even previous hard core raiders like me) away from other games.

Im not against them adding more challenging content, but not in ways that lead to divides between players and greater drama.

Blaeys.3102:

If the content isnt fun/enticing enough to stand on its own sans higher rewards, then adding higher rewards would just create a “have to do that” atmosphere – yet another element of raids that lends to the hate and toxicity I referenced.

The bigger issue is the group size flexibility, imo (must have for larger groups), but creating better rewards for something only a small percentage of the population wants to do is just as toxic – leading to the have/have not mentality that drove many of us (even previous hard core raiders like me) away from other games.

Im not against them adding more challenging content, but not in ways that lead to divides between players and greater drama.

What do you propose then? It’s almost impossible to have challenging content and not divide the player. Because there are ALWAYS people who will cry, “too hard!”. Take the Living Story Shadow Dragon boss for instance…it’s not even a raid, and people were crying “too hard” – were in fact all you had to do was take a few minutes to observe it’s mechanics, and the fight turns cake.

Are you saying that everything should be easy because the heavy non-skilled chunk of the playerbase would complain about it? (Note that I did not say casual, because even casuals can be skillful, I know a few myself).

Also reward HAS to be tied in with gameplay…look at how many people avoid fluffs like Jumping Puzzle…

Yes please. Raids and challenging INSTANCED content with good/unique rewards in general are major reason why I pay Blizzard (and Bioware from time to time) 13€ every month.

10man is hardly a raid. It’s a 10man dungeon.

I fully support this. I think 10 is a perfect top-end number of players for hard content. 25man is a pain, 40man is a pain, but 10man? That’s relatively easy to put together and you can do so much more mechanic-wise.

Like two groups of 5 need to split at a fork, group A has to do something in order for group B to do something.

I think it would be great. And I’m someone who is against raids in general after burning out doing them for years.

Raids should have been here at launch, so i’d definitely support them. There isn’t a downside to them, people who want them will love them, and those who don’t can still spend their time doing whatever they enjoy doing, there are only gains to be had if you ask me. But 10man is too small, that’s not really full raid numbers, you can easily times that by 2-4 and we’d be golden.

Sadly the community is extremely casual in GW2, so i doubt we’ll ever see them.

Yes if they can make them interesting and not designed so that the current zerker meta is the best way to do things.

The game already doesn’t have a gear grind, and its current PvE is either open-world zergfest, simple story content, or poorly designed 5man dungeons/fractals that force everyone into a berserker gear, kill things in a corner meta.

The game could definitely use instanced challenging PvE content. It just needs to be well-designed.

Avster.1935:

Bernie.8674:

Avster.1935:

EDIT: Maybe raids can have NORMAL mode and HARD mode, with better more exclusive rewards locked in HARD CORE mode. That way, the not so skillful players can still stroll through the normal mode, and those seeking challenge can do the hard mode and get rewarded appropriately. Everyone wins.

The stuff in italics is exactly why I’m against raiding. First raiders want harder content. Then they want better rewards. Then they want even better rewards to sweeten the pot because otherwise there’s no way to get ten players to sign onto a 3 hour commitment on a weekly basis. Before you know it you have two categories of players: the ones in raid gear who do double the DPS of everyone else despite running the same rotations in the same way and the non-raiders who are looked down upon because they aren’t committed enough to have as good of gear. Thanks, but no thanks.

Do you even play GW2? There is absolutely no gear trend mill in this game. Since when did I ever state I want to be more powerful than you? That doesn’t show that I’m a better/skillful player. ANet even said in HoT announcement that there will be no gear grind involved. This is GW2 aka horizontal progression aka Skin Wars 2. Give me an exclusive skin or item that let’s others know of my feat.

Also of course we want better rewards, if we are willing to put in the time, commitment, and organize this, why shouldn’t we? Rewards attained from mindless zerging should not be equal to organized skillful play.

---

Have you ever heard of the concept of a guild? Maybe try gathering or joining a group of like-minded people, filling up dungeon parties has never been an issue.

Bernie.8674:

World of Warcraft is calling to you. There are plenty of raids to be found there. I prefer that development resources in this game remain focused on content for everyone, not just on content for “a few skillful players.” There are plenty of other games out there that target that crowd. How selfish are you? Why do you want to turn the one casual game in the market into the same old raiding game that everyone else is doing? If you want raiding, please play one of the many others that provide it.

First of all. What? Re-read what you just wrote. Just re-read it.

Why in the world would I go to WoW? I never played it, I never will. I absolutely hate gear grinding. Let me state it in bold so you don’t get confused again.

There is NO power creep in GW2 in terms of gear grinding

I never said I want to turn a casual game into raiding. Have you even read my previous post? There are plenty of open world event maps that are coming out, and you can’t even allow a few of us to enjoy fun, challenging content?

FYI – I also like the open world pve events. But raids are a different need.

Also this game is play how you want. Nothing is mandatory. You’re not forced to raid to advance in terms of power level.

Let me help you out. The only legitimate rebuttal that you have is that it “takes up resources that could have been used elsewhere”. Fine, okay. I can also say that I don’t like all the jumping puzzle (hypothetical, I actually enjoy JP) that they put in the game, since only a handful of people do them. So why waste resource on making more of them? See what I did there? None of us have concrete facts or numbers to dictate whether the allocation of such resources is a waste of time or not.

And no, I won’t play another game, because I absolutely love the GW franchise. Been here for a long time, so YOU can leave if you don’t want to be here.

This. Why can’t there be a raid that implements gw2 style rewards? Why can’t there be a raid that offer’s different cosmetics and kitten etc etc. Wow did that. You got slightly better gear, but you also got different colored gear than those doing the normal stuff.

This would keep the “oh look the raiders go uber kitten” factor under control, while allowing those wanting a raid a slightly different reward.

Also, wow is practically NOTHING BUT RAIDS. What would be wrong with having 1 raid in ALL OF GW2. JUST ONE.

I think the game would benefit greatly from instanced raids. There’s little doubt in my mind that we won’t see them included in the expansion or shortly after.
I think 10 man would likely be the starting point, I wouldn’t be surprised to see them as high as 30 man.

What is a raid? I’ve never really played a MMO other than GW2 and I think this is a term from WoW, correct?

tboneking.2531:

What is a raid? I’ve never really played a MMO other than GW2 and I think this is a term from WoW, correct?

From before that, most prominent in WoW.

It’s difficult multi-group content, usually instanced, and usually associated with unique rewards and vertical gear progression.

Tequatl and 3headed worm are raids, as is vilewrath and really any of the world bosses.

Or rather, the GW2 version of raids with very little in the way in unique loot and no ‘tapping’ to get exclusive loot content.

~~~

To The Poll Question

No instanced raids, they’re terrible and few people use them. Let’s keep that particular poison snake out of our beds.

The problem is that most buffs work only on 5 people at once.

This doesnt matter in large zergs because those are not reliable anyway.

But it would matter in organized bossfights with 10 people where might stacking and buff use suddenly becomes very random.

Unless the target limit for buffs is increased, I dont see how we could get instanced content for groups of more then 5 people.

Somebody should also explain what exactly is the difference between raids and the dungeons we have right now, other than the number of people (which doesnt really change the experience).

yes. I’d love to see some 10 man groups and more difficult dungeon content to match not just zerging around either i’d like some new tactics/mechanics. I love both WoW and GW2 but I def miss the big groups and epic boss fights with these large groups.

I’m not much for a raid so much as a “mission” from the GW1 style of thing or a balance between the two. I used to love doing the GW1 missions, particular when they were offered as Zaishen missions since it was pretty much the only time I would actually interact with other players. I preferred to solo most of GW1.

That being said. I’d like to see something like the Zaishen missions/bounties/vanquish, perhaps as an Order (Vigil/Whispers/Priory) mission which spawns once a week at Ancient Karka level of difficulty and appropriate level of loot, i.e higher chance of precursors in final chest, that sort of thing. City/town assaults could be an interesting combination of raid/mission

gw1 used to have 8 and 12 man dungeons if I remember correct. We’ll see.

That way… we can stack TEN full DPS characters on the boss as the only method of killing it within a reasonable amount of time, without RNG placed AoEs screwing over the party at random intervals, without adds taking up the precious dodges the bosses instadeath attacks require, without it resetting because the AI is restricted to a 2×2 ft area!

There is no freaking reason to add any such content until:

• AI doesn’t bug out when it comes in to contact with terrain, when it comes in to contact with players, in contact with players’ attacks, when players look at it funny!
• They can actually design an encounter that requires anything more than dodging one instadeath attack after another. Or better yet, the delightful ‘collect some piece of crap while dodging one insteadeath attack after another’ encounters.
• The stat system allows for defense besides dodging, and defensive/utility stats are actually worth building.
• Defiance is gone or revamped so that control can actually be used.
• Conditions are a viable source of sub and off damage.
• Resetting because of leash range is gone.

Raids I have seen many asking for and it seems like it could be a popular idea. I think it wouldn’t be a bad idea to implement it.

That said, for me, no.

I tend to find any group based content past 5-6 becomes a chaotic mess of AoE and you become drowned as a number, your contribution mattering less and less the higher the number. Some of us don’t zerging around like mindless puppets.

It’s a small number of very very very vocal people asking for it ><

Also Conncept: You can’t both complain about instadeath attacks and in the same breath talk about how useless defenses are. Most attacks aren’t actually Touch-of-death unless you’re running pure DPS stats.

Windsagio.1340:

It’s a small number of very very very vocal people asking for it ><

Also Conncept: You can’t both complain about instadeath attacks and in the same breath talk about how useless defenses are. Most attacks aren’t actually Touch-of-death unless you’re running pure DPS stats.

I go through dungeons with a full Dire condi-elementalist. Y’know how much of a difference 1500-2000 of both the games major defense stats makes? One attack, I can take one… single… hit… more from the majority of the games’s bosses as compared to the berserkers I’m running alongside. I get simultaneously ecstatic and teary-eyed about those very few bosses I can actually take a whopping three hits from.

Yes, I can complain about both, because I actually speak from personal experience instead of armchair professorhood. Every combination of defensive stats, save just short of or including Nomads gear, IS worthless, and will garner you no more survivability against most of the games bosses.

Nope…hard enough getting 5 people together to do something effectively, and LFGing would not work for raid style 10 man. Look at Tequatl as an example of how hard it sometimes is to organize things. People don’t want to volunteer in general, and everyone hates the waiting around.

Bernie.8674:

No raids, please. If you want raids go play WoW. They have 4 raiding difficulty levels and usually release a new one every three months. I actually came back to this game because I don’t want to see another raid in my life.

yanipheonu.5798:

Honestly, why not have a raid?

1. Because it’s hard enough trying to get five people together for a twenty minute instance. The last thing I want at the end of the day is to scrape together 10 experienced players to fight a boss that hardly ever rewards loot anyway. If I want to participate in a raid like activity I’ll go run Teq. That’s only a half hour commitment (15 minutes of set up, 15 minutes of fight), he dishes out karma like it’s candy on Halloween, and I get about 5 chests at the end. That’s the kind of game this is, and it’s the kind of game most of us signed on for.
2. Time spent developing raids could be better spent working on living story or on new dungeons
3. Raiding is terrible return on investment. Raids are notoriously difficult to organize, and only the hardcore audience (which is not the targeted audience in this game) ever bothers to repeat them. In this game they would be something that players do one time before going back to their Silverwastes chest farming or WvW bag collecting. Note that even Wildstar, which had been hyping its emphasis on raiding prior to its release, backed off on that stance:

When Wildstar was launched, it was heavily toted as “hardcore” especially in the sense of raiding. It now appears Carbine is adjusting its view with both previous and this upcoming patch. I wanted to know whether this was a pivot away from hardcore or a resolve to “The Devs are listening.” The official word from Frost was “both”, after seeing the feedback and looking at gameplay analytics they found that there was a real need to focus on solo content.

Reality wise, finding groups for raids was never the problem. The problem was finding the right players willing to play a certain role in the trinity. But GW2 has no trinity which is why grouping doesn’t take as long.

So I don’t understand that argument.

Shroedingers Chupacabra.2978:

Nope…hard enough getting 5 people together to do something effectively, and LFGing would not work for raid style 10 man. Look at Tequatl as an example of how hard it sometimes is to organize things. People don’t want to volunteer in general, and everyone hates the waiting around.

Teq is a open world event that is designed around larger than 10 man to be successful.

Raid dungeons are not. It’s smaller numbers required and has controlled numbers unlike Teq which adjust to numbers.

Also finding a group isn’t hard in GW2 because it doesn’t have trinity roles like healer and Tank which were two roles that only a minority played. In GW2 everybody is DPS. Finding 9 other DPS players isn’t hard to do. Hey that’s easy to do in WoW even.

Windsagio.1340:

It’s a small number of very very very vocal people asking for it ><

Also Conncept: You can’t both complain about instadeath attacks and in the same breath talk about how useless defenses are. Most attacks aren’t actually Touch-of-death unless you’re running pure DPS stats.

There are a lot of instadeath bosses.
Dont forget that an Ele with soldier gear is about as tanky as a Berserker Warrior.
Full Zerk eles and Thieves die like flies in melee range.

And yes the boss system based on oneshot abilities is the reason why defense sucks.

Because it doesnt matter that you die in 2 hits rather than 1, that means you will live 10 seconds rather than 5 if you do not dodge.

So if 90% of your defense are based on dodging anyway, you might as well go full damage and kill the boss twice as fast, reducing the number of hits you have to take/dodge.

No thanks. Mainly because I’ve had enough of games with 10+man dungeons.

To be honest after a decade of World of Warcraft raiding and seeing what kind of effect it has on the community I can whole heartedly say no thank you to raids in the traditional sense for GW2.

Please give us more open world events and bosses tho!

Absolutely yes. The simple fact is this is an rpg mmo and there isnt any raids when there is a ton of potential for raid content in this game. I like the idea of just adding a raid option to the already dungeon options. The only problem i see to the current meta game is there is no dedicated trinity which i feel is a must in a raid environment. I dont think that would be impossible to add with the HoT and they could do something to make certain classes more of trinity tank such as a guardian with healing masteries. These are the only things i feel are missing from this game.

Bump. Despite what the naysayers may say, the so called “vocal minority” actually ends up being the majority. Who would have thought

Anything as long as it replace the garbo living story.

SkylightMoon.1980:

Bump. Despite what the naysayers may say, the so called “vocal minority” actually ends up being the majority. Who would have thought

WildstarSaysWhat?

yes, or guild raids. we lack things to do as a guild. it is called GUILD wars 2. Pve guilds, need more things to do, as well as pvp, not wvw. I’m talking about small scale pvp like 10v10 or 20v20 in a smaller battle ground than wvw.

I say yes, and I want to address a few things.

1. For those opposed to raids based on other games, you need to keep in mind the gear treadmill those games propagate. Because Guild Wars 2 doesn’t have that, raids won’t be “mandatory” for players. ArenaNet just needs to balance rewards so that raids are worth the effort and on pace with the open world PvE content. A raid should have similar rewards timewise to the current Silverwastes meta, or whatever the new meta ends up being.

2. I think this forum, anecdotally, underestimates the number of players interested in this content. I can’t think of a single member of my 35-man guild who wouldn’t want to run raids. That does introduce some questions about raid size, lockouts, repeatability, etc., but those are more logistical than “yes or no raids” dealbreakers.

3. Instanced content has been a part of this game since launch, and is not mutually exclusive to open world content. I adore Vinewrath and Breach, but also love fractals. The game is capable of doing multiple things well.

4. If anything, raids will attract a different breed of player, and I think we all realize that expanding the playerbase is good for the long term development of this game on all fronts. More players equals more development, and I have a number of friends from other MMOs who enjoy Guild Wars 2 but want to see more instanced content before they invest heavily time-wise (and inevitably, with their money).

Long story short, I believe ArenaNet can walk and chew gum at the same time. Raids yes.

SkylightMoon.1980:

Bump. Despite what the naysayers may say, the so called “vocal minority” actually ends up being the majority. Who would have thought

Majority? Where? Because you’re definitely not talking about gw2.

JLHiggs.6258:

2. I think this forum, anecdotally, underestimates the number of players interested in this content.

No, we don’t. It’s aleady known that even in raid-heavy games raider community usually is no bigger than 10-15%. In gw2, aimed at casuals and with no raids whatsoever, i can safely say it’s likely much smaller.

JLHiggs.6258:

4. If anything, raids will attract a different breed of player

I am quite aware of that. It’s one of the reasons why i argue against them.

Astralporing.1957:

SkylightMoon.1980:

Bump. Despite what the naysayers may say, the so called “vocal minority” actually ends up being the majority. Who would have thought

Majority? Where? Because you’re definitely not talking about gw2.

Ppl who want raids are playing other games (including me) because GW2 has no raid daaaaa. I bet there is more ppl in LFR queue and inside raids during prime time in WoW than in WvWvW and all world bosses combined in GW2 :P These ppl are paying monthly fee to punch overzized NPCs… they could do it in GW2 and spend their money here but for whatever reason (lazyness?) Arenanet decided to not tap into this source of players (usually very dedicated btw).

I’d like more content that requires a static/guild/group of friends that need to progress through it as a team and can’t be pugged. Doesn’t need to be a raid.
Why? To create a community and make people want to befriend each other more.

Brahmincorle.1264:

Astralporing.1957:

SkylightMoon.1980:

Bump. Despite what the naysayers may say, the so called “vocal minority” actually ends up being the majority. Who would have thought

Majority? Where? Because you’re definitely not talking about gw2.

Ppl who want raids are playing other games (including me) because GW2 has no raid daaaaa. I bet there is more ppl in LFR queue and inside raids during prime time in WoW than in WvWvW and all world bosses combined in GW2 :P These ppl are paying monthly fee to punch overzized NPCs… they could do it in GW2 and spend their money here but for whatever reason (lazyness?) Arenanet decided to not tap into this source of players (usually very dedicated btw).

Those so called ‘dedicated’ players went back to WoW from Wildstar pretty quickly. It doesn’t matter if you add raids or not, most of those WoW players will go back because that is where the community and guild they know is.

Yes. I heavily dislike open world zerging/chaotic content.
To this day I’ve played the last two maps added to the game less than 5 hours.
Meanwhile I’ve spent countless of hours playing FOTM.

I honestly feel like party size (max party size) should be upped from 5 to 8-10. reason for this is that it would make it easier to encompass all professions without having to exclude any for specific content. In addition one could, over time, revamp content in such a way that every profession could fully utilize their unique sides in order to progress as efficiently as possible.

I dislike raiding in general and the culture around it. I can take a pass on that. What I do miss though, is having 8 party groups like we have in guild wars 1 and city of heroes. Or having instances where the dungeon scales in difficulty in according to the party size of 1-8. Or being able to sit in chairs. I would love to be able to do all of that again.

Raids =/= challenging content. I’d like some challending content that does not requires me to rely on other peoples performance.

Trixie.7614:

Raids =/= challenging content. I’d like some challending content that does not requires me to rely on other peoples performance.

This is exactly what I believe most people really want when it comes to what people define as raids. The whole casual/hardcore thing is, in many ways, a false dichotomy. A ton of casual players want challenging content, they just don’t want to or don’t have time to grind for things. The biggest issue is that raids tend to be a long involved set of content which is built around hard mechanics that require time to work through. Also raids are most often designed with a large group of people which in itself throws an unwanted and most often problematic wrench into things; it is very difficult to coordinate players to play through the raid.

Today’s gamers for a large part just do not have the time to invest, and most often their play time is not flexible enough to be coordinated with an entire group of people who have their own RL schedules. I think if a raid style environment could be developed not only for groups to complete but can also be designed for solo or pairs of players to complete it would be far more successful. It isn’t that we don’t want the challenge we just want to do it when we can fit it into our often busy lives. Gone for many are the days of being able to sit at a computer for 5 hours slogging through one area of a raid dungeon.

I would love to see a raid that would allow you to save your progress along the route much the same way as many console games are designed and that you could work away at your own pace over time to complete. Make it difficult, make it challenging and in depth but make it so I can tackle it without losing large chunks of progress and not be required to invest a half day at a time. Oh and while I’m at it, I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again, the game that finally and successfully designs dungeon/raid content that can scale to players from 1 to 50 will be the most successful in the industry.

Yes… as some others have said, I would like INSTANCED raids…. 10 man would be good enough I suppose. Also.. when I say raids, I like quite a few others just mean harder dungeons for more people. I love Aetherpath. Shoot me.

It seems like a lot of people don’t want them though… a lot that just don’t care about dungeons. Great then, these aren’t for you. Doesn’t mean we shouldn’t be able to have them.

A lot of times people hear “raid” and think “YOU WANT GEAR GRIND! YOU WANT MORE TIERS!”… no.. no I don’t, that’s why I play GW2. I want challenging content for me and my friends (basically, my guild). It needs to be instanced because if it isn’t then the challenge isn’t completed by just us… we feel less like “we” did it and more like another cog in a massive wheel. Basically the current state of guild missions and all other open world content.

Blaeys.3102:

Avster.1935:

Blaeys.3102:

…Now, if they can pull off raids in such a way that the numbers are flexible, the rewards are no better than any other content in the game and they are still extremely challenging, then Im all for them…

But then no one would do them…We already know our player base is more prone to doing easy things for high rewards. Let this, for a change, be a hard thing for higher reward…

If the content isnt fun/enticing enough to stand on its own sans higher rewards, then adding higher rewards would just create a “have to do that” atmosphere – yet another element of raids that lends to the hate and toxicity I referenced.

The bigger issue is the group size flexibility, imo (must have for larger groups), but creating better rewards for something only a small percentage of the population wants to do is just as toxic – leading to the have/have not mentality that drove many of us (even previous hard core raiders like me) away from other games.

Im not against them adding more challenging content, but not in ways that lead to divides between players and greater drama.

^^ Very much this.

No, a thousand times, no.

Many of us came to GW2 to escape that very thing.

Why do people always compare instanced raids to open world events? These are just totally different content types for different groups of players. Rift has done both and done them well (I’m aware that doing well compared to the atrocious state of open world events in Gw2 is no huge achievement).

The problem is going to be in the mechanics. We have yet to see a single interesting pve mechanic at play in any of the dungeons and I find it hard to believe that anet are capable of producing one on their game engine. Too many limits are in place and too much emphasis is put on the get out of jail free card that is dodge roll.

The conditions are far too limited and you have no way of differentiating the important conditions from unimportant, and condition clear is abundant in all classes and even stuff like runes and food. Healing and self-healing is all over the place, and this chaotic environment puts a nail into designing any sort of predictable feedback.

Stacking is an issue, stacking in a raid would be a much larger issue. Aoes have far too few targets across the board, the mechanics of ‘drop an aoe per each member of the group’ kill any strategic thought about positioning in the encounters, and those are used extensively by anet design team.

It could go on and on, but long story short, the foundation for a fun, strategic and engaging raid design is not there, and we are not getting a new engine built from scratch that would support things that are extremely basic to other games.

Mala.3861:

No, a thousand times, no.

Many of us came to GW2 to escape that very thing.

Why are you so haunted by raids? It’s not going to be a conventional raid.

Before you reply, please read the previous posts that I’ve made on this thread. I’m naturally curious.

EDIT: This goes to others as well. Don’t just say “No.” give an explanation, but before you do read the posts that have been made on this thread.

Avster.1935:

Mala.3861:

No, a thousand times, no.

Many of us came to GW2 to escape that very thing.

Why are you so haunted by raids? It’s not going to be a conventional raid.

Before you reply, please read the previous posts that I’ve made on this thread. I’m naturally curious.

EDIT: This goes to others as well. Don’t just say “No.” give an explanation, but before you do read the posts that have been made on this thread.

I think a lot of us naysayers would be open to raids in GW2 if they made sure to avoid all of the things that make them such cesspools of hate in other games. To me, that means

• They would have to be flexible. Set numbers create situations where friends have to make untenable decisions about who gets to raid with the guild and who doesnt. Im not saying let 50 people into a raid, but don’t set hard numbers either. Scaling from 8 to 15 makes the most sense to me.

• They CANNOT be more rewarding than any other content in the game. Ive explained this above, but once again, greater reward turns it into something people will feel they “have to do.” There is no way around that – and GW2 doesnt really work that way anyway.

• They cannot be the dev team’s primary focus. They have developed a fun game that the majority of us (i know Im making an assumption) really love. They need to focus efforts on ensuring the core elements of the game (open world, WvW, PvP, 5-player dungeons and fractals) are as entertaining as possible.

I realize you will most likely disagree with all or most of these points (which is fine – its a discussion), but these are the points you asked for – why we (or at least I) are against raids. If, however, they take a different approach from other games (ie, the three points I list above), I think you would find alot more people supporting the idea.

i’m very much in favor of raids

1. adding RAID paths to the current dungeons is stupid in my opinion, since the dungeons were innitially not designed for 10ppl. if anet is planning to do raids, it has to be designed from the scratch in order to become a success.

2. if the raiding group isn’t too large, then it should not be a problem gathering enough players. 10 players should be possible to gather without having struggles.

btw anyone played ffXIVARR ? i can only see WoW raid comparisms in here… it’s not like WoW intenveted raiding, nor is WoW the only game that has/should have raiding.