Guild Wars 2

Player A: Hey man, wanna do a dungeon?
Player 2: Sure, give me an hour to get there!

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

Yalora Istairiea.6287:

Quoted from a previous post of 3+ months ago:

Yalora Istairiea.6287:

As I wrack my memory from GW1 I recall my displeasure of; if I wanted to take on a particular boss, lets say Borrguus Blisterbark, who was located at the bottom of Sacnoth Valley, you had to:

1. Map Travel to Longeye’s Ledge
2. Run to the gate to Grothmar Wardowns
3. Run all the way to the other corner of Grothmar Wardowns
4. Enter the gate to Sacnoth Valley
5. Run all the way to the other corner of Scanoth Valley
6. And then finely, I am able to get my whooping from Borrguus Blisterbark

My recollection of that experience was took forever(insert drama here) which meant that I rarely did it.

I remember that run….. and if you were doing it in HM and got 60dp all around you got to do the run all over again to get back to the spot.

I agree that using your own two feet has its charm, but sometimes you just want the option to get where you’re going a little more quickly….

Consumables FTW. I still have stacks of candy canes, and Four Leaf Clovers.

I think that Waypoints are counterproductive to immersing people into the world.
- Especially considering that it was their reason for not introducing mounts into GW2. People would simply skip events… because Waypoints certainly does the job better.

I think that if we had the possiblity to travel by ship from LA to Fort Trinity or Rata Sum, and if we had the means to reach our destination faster, and through other means than walking/running we’d be much more immersed into the world of GW2, because we’d also experience the scenery, the Dynamic Events and all that the Open World has to offer.
- I was immersed into the world of GW1, because of the quests would lead me around. Sure, there were fast travel, but it is not the same with GW2.

If we had Waypoints for each Dungeon, in the Capitals, and points where we would need to reach fast (like WoW had Summoning Stones) the convenience would be there, but we’d still get to experience the world.
- It isn’t about the world, when Waypoints are this many.
It’s convenient, but I’m of the belief that it ruins some parts of the game (DE’s… sadly).
- I hope ANet looks into this in 2014.

serialkicker.5274:

Player A: Hey man, wanna do a dungeon?
Player 2: Sure, give me an hour to get there!

Waypoints at each dungeon, in Capitals, and places that are necessary for us to reach faster.
- But sure, if doing an event and one dies… having to run through an entire zone is annoying.

killcannon.2576:

ozmaniandevil.6805:

killcannon.2576:

remove half of them. especially ones near events/champs

I reject your idea wholeheartedly. None of you HAVE to USE the waypoints. If you don’t want to, then don’t.

The open world is way too big. You know how many world bosses would get done if there were no WPs? None. I’m not wasting an hour running from one side of the Tyria to the other just to do an event. Ever. It would be over before I got anywhere anyway. Oh, or maybe I could just make 30 characters, one for each huge map, and park it there. That sounds like fun…. NOT.

That’s nice. Long live the zerg trains , eh? lol

Has nothing to do with zerg trains. I have only so much time to play in a day, and harvest mats and and kills stuff and do dungeons and play wvw and do world bosses AND champs… I don’t want to spend my hour running from here to there, thank you. I’m not 19, I don’t play for 12 hours a day. With waypoints I can get to where I want to play for the time I have to play. Simple as that.

God no. Do not remove waypoints.

If you feel waypoints ruin the immersion, then don’t use them. That’s completely within your means. But leave them there for other people who want them. If other people would rather get to where they’re going fast via WP then that’s their choice, just as not using them to boost immersion is yours. You don’t get to “force” immersion on people at the cost of inconveniencing them.

I actually don’t agree that waypoints ruin DE’s, either. As it is now, if someone calls out a certain DE in map chat you can probably be there in a couple minutes at most. You actually have a somewhat decent chance of getting there as long as its not a super-fast event. If there were no waypoints, someone could call out an event in map chat and it’d take you 10 minutes to get there by walking. The event is long over by then. Anyone not already in the immediate vicinity of the event would be SOL, which would lead to people camping events they want to do.

ozmaniandevil.6805:

killcannon.2576:

ozmaniandevil.6805:

killcannon.2576:

remove half of them. especially ones near events/champs

I reject your idea wholeheartedly. None of you HAVE to USE the waypoints. If you don’t want to, then don’t.

The open world is way too big. You know how many world bosses would get done if there were no WPs? None. I’m not wasting an hour running from one side of the Tyria to the other just to do an event. Ever. It would be over before I got anywhere anyway. Oh, or maybe I could just make 30 characters, one for each huge map, and park it there. That sounds like fun…. NOT.

That’s nice. Long live the zerg trains , eh? lol

Has nothing to do with zerg trains. I have only so much time to play in a day, and harvest mats and and kills stuff and do dungeons and play wvw and do world bosses AND champs… I don’t want to spend my hour running from here to there, thank you. I’m not 19, I don’t play for 12 hours a day. With waypoints I can get to where I want to play for the time I have to play. Simple as that.

Oh…one of the “I got a life” elites. Don’t have the time to invest in an MMO? I don’t care. The lowest common denominator of gaming.

Give it to me now, cause I “got a life”. These players caused the rise of microtransactions, gold sellers, and rise of the cash shops in games. The faster a mmo can get rid of these types of players, the better.

killcannon.2576:

ozmaniandevil.6805:

killcannon.2576:

ozmaniandevil.6805:

killcannon.2576:

remove half of them. especially ones near events/champs

I reject your idea wholeheartedly. None of you HAVE to USE the waypoints. If you don’t want to, then don’t.

The open world is way too big. You know how many world bosses would get done if there were no WPs? None. I’m not wasting an hour running from one side of the Tyria to the other just to do an event. Ever. It would be over before I got anywhere anyway. Oh, or maybe I could just make 30 characters, one for each huge map, and park it there. That sounds like fun…. NOT.

That’s nice. Long live the zerg trains , eh? lol

Has nothing to do with zerg trains. I have only so much time to play in a day, and harvest mats and and kills stuff and do dungeons and play wvw and do world bosses AND champs… I don’t want to spend my hour running from here to there, thank you. I’m not 19, I don’t play for 12 hours a day. With waypoints I can get to where I want to play for the time I have to play. Simple as that.

Oh…one of the “I got a life” elites. Don’t have the time to invest in an MMO? I don’t care. The lowest common denominator of gaming.

Give it to me now, cause I “got a life”.

I’m hooked, how is having a life and still wanting to spend your time in game doing something fun a bad thing?

/popcorn

Guild Chat: Shatterer pre up!!!
Response 1: kitten it! Omw!!
Response 1: Don’t bother, never gonna make it on time.
Response 1: Even if he will, there’s nobody there right now. Not enough Fire Power!!!
Response 1: Woooo! One of my alts is parked there!!
Response 1: kitten … I’m in Orr right now…
Response 1: People are actually doing Shatterer still?

killcannon.2576:

ozmaniandevil.6805:

killcannon.2576:

ozmaniandevil.6805:

killcannon.2576:

remove half of them. especially ones near events/champs

I reject your idea wholeheartedly. None of you HAVE to USE the waypoints. If you don’t want to, then don’t.

The open world is way too big. You know how many world bosses would get done if there were no WPs? None. I’m not wasting an hour running from one side of the Tyria to the other just to do an event. Ever. It would be over before I got anywhere anyway. Oh, or maybe I could just make 30 characters, one for each huge map, and park it there. That sounds like fun…. NOT.

That’s nice. Long live the zerg trains , eh? lol

Has nothing to do with zerg trains. I have only so much time to play in a day, and harvest mats and and kills stuff and do dungeons and play wvw and do world bosses AND champs… I don’t want to spend my hour running from here to there, thank you. I’m not 19, I don’t play for 12 hours a day. With waypoints I can get to where I want to play for the time I have to play. Simple as that.

Oh…one of the “I got a life” elites. Don’t have the time to invest in an MMO? I don’t care. The lowest common denominator of gaming.

Give it to me now, cause I “got a life”. These players caused the rise of microtransactions, gold sellers, and rise of the cash shops in games. The faster a mmo can get rid of these types of players, the better.

I don’t see him making the “got a life” claim, just factually stating that with the reduced time he has to play waypoints allow him to see more content. Why anyone would want to remove accessibility to content from someone else is beyond me.

killcannon.2576:

Oh…one of the “I got a life” elites. Don’t have the time to invest in an MMO? I don’t care. The lowest common denominator of gaming.

Give it to me now, cause I “got a life”. These players caused the rise of microtransactions, gold sellers, and rise of the cash shops in games. The faster a mmo can get rid of these types of players, the better.

Sorry, but you’re the one that’s coming off as elite here. “Sorry you don’t have as much time to play as I do but suck it up because I’m the right one to be playing this game anyways”. Yeah, that makes you sound great. rollseyes

I’m one of those people that has hours upon hours to play and I’m all for way points. Let people play the game. Walking to your destination the entire time isn’t playing it, it’s wasting time. I’d much prefer to spend my time killing/gathering/questing/etc than walking and I have time to kill. Others disagree and enjoy the walking, that’s fine. I’m not clamoring for their walking abilities to be taken away.

VOLKON.1290:

killcannon.2576:

ozmaniandevil.6805:

killcannon.2576:

ozmaniandevil.6805:

killcannon.2576:

remove half of them. especially ones near events/champs

I reject your idea wholeheartedly. None of you HAVE to USE the waypoints. If you don’t want to, then don’t.

The open world is way too big. You know how many world bosses would get done if there were no WPs? None. I’m not wasting an hour running from one side of the Tyria to the other just to do an event. Ever. It would be over before I got anywhere anyway. Oh, or maybe I could just make 30 characters, one for each huge map, and park it there. That sounds like fun…. NOT.

That’s nice. Long live the zerg trains , eh? lol

Has nothing to do with zerg trains. I have only so much time to play in a day, and harvest mats and and kills stuff and do dungeons and play wvw and do world bosses AND champs… I don’t want to spend my hour running from here to there, thank you. I’m not 19, I don’t play for 12 hours a day. With waypoints I can get to where I want to play for the time I have to play. Simple as that.

Oh…one of the “I got a life” elites. Don’t have the time to invest in an MMO? I don’t care. The lowest common denominator of gaming.

Give it to me now, cause I “got a life”. These players caused the rise of microtransactions, gold sellers, and rise of the cash shops in games. The faster a mmo can get rid of these types of players, the better.

I don’t see him making the “got a life” claim, just factually stating that with the reduced time he has to play waypoints allow him to see more content. Why anyone would want to remove accessibility to content from someone else is beyond me.

Not sure why you equate removing a few waypoints as removing accessibility to content. Because it isn’t by any stretch of the imagination.

The fact is, the sheer number of waypoints just increase the type of one , toxic play style in game. The zerg train. Cutting down the number of waypoints doesn’t remove anyone’s access to content.

Sibenice.5298:

killcannon.2576:

Oh…one of the “I got a life” elites. Don’t have the time to invest in an MMO? I don’t care. The lowest common denominator of gaming.

Give it to me now, cause I “got a life”. These players caused the rise of microtransactions, gold sellers, and rise of the cash shops in games. The faster a mmo can get rid of these types of players, the better.

Sorry, but you’re the one that’s coming off as elite here. “Sorry you don’t have as much time to play as I do but suck it up because I’m the right one to be playing this game anyways”. Yeah, that makes you sound great. rollseyes

I’m one of those people that has hours upon hours to play and I’m all for way points. Let people play the game. Walking to your destination the entire time isn’t playing it, it’s wasting time. I’d much prefer to spend my time killing/gathering/questing/etc than walking and I have time to kill. Others disagree and enjoy the walking, that’s fine. I’m not clamoring for their walking abilities to be taken away.

You would be right if I compared his play time to mine…but I didn’t. What I am saying is….The amount of time you have to play doesn’t matter to me. It’s not a factor, period.

If you don’t have enough time to play a game…why do I care? It has nothing to do with anything.

Why not remove some waypoints? Because then everyone’s precious zerg train takes a hit. That’s really why people don’t want waypoints removed.

Interesting….

The pro WP people are saying Tyria is too large to not have WPs, the immersion folks don’t really see a need for them because they break their immersion and need to see and interact with everything that is Tyria. But yet all of us want a expansion that includes new areas/zones to explore don’t we?

I don’t want to spend a hour running through zones to reach my destination, most of the time I have limited play time to devote to the game and the thought of heading for a area I need for map completion and it taking me several hours (or evenings) to get to that zone is really a deal breaker to me, the only thing that would make it worse is if every time I died I had to start over from my origin.

I’d say make them selectable in the options, the immersion folks can just turn them off and have all the world to see at their leisure, the rest of us can use WPs and pay the toll for using them as we do now.

killcannon.2576:

VOLKON.1290:

I don’t see him making the “got a life” claim, just factually stating that with the reduced time he has to play waypoints allow him to see more content. Why anyone would want to remove accessibility to content from someone else is beyond me.

Not sure why you equate removing a few waypoints as removing accessibility to content. Because it isn’t by any stretch of the imagination.

The fact is, the sheer number of waypoints just increase the type of one , toxic play style in game. The zerg train. Cutting down the number of waypoints doesn’t remove anyone’s access to content.

Waypoints and zerging are unrelated. Go look at WvW for evidence of that… the zerg will form whether or not waypoints exist. The fact of the matter is that removing waypoints slows down access to content, and for someone with limited playing time this equates to access to content denied.

There’s an expression we had in my Navy days, but I won’t repeat that here because it’s unrelated to the topic and will get me banned. However, I will use a different expression… “If it ain’t broke, don’t fix it.” Removing waypoints isn’t as simple as removing waypoints if I’m not mistaken. You then have to factor in things like the aforementioned accessibility to content, which can have an effect on mob types and densities in areas.

There are far more worthwhile things to devote time to (see the CDI thread) than messing with a system that most people like, use, and agree works well.

Aeonblade.8709:

killcannon.2576:

ozmaniandevil.6805:

killcannon.2576:

ozmaniandevil.6805:

killcannon.2576:

remove half of them. especially ones near events/champs

I reject your idea wholeheartedly. None of you HAVE to USE the waypoints. If you don’t want to, then don’t.

The open world is way too big. You know how many world bosses would get done if there were no WPs? None. I’m not wasting an hour running from one side of the Tyria to the other just to do an event. Ever. It would be over before I got anywhere anyway. Oh, or maybe I could just make 30 characters, one for each huge map, and park it there. That sounds like fun…. NOT.

That’s nice. Long live the zerg trains , eh? lol

Has nothing to do with zerg trains. I have only so much time to play in a day, and harvest mats and and kills stuff and do dungeons and play wvw and do world bosses AND champs… I don’t want to spend my hour running from here to there, thank you. I’m not 19, I don’t play for 12 hours a day. With waypoints I can get to where I want to play for the time I have to play. Simple as that.

Oh…one of the “I got a life” elites. Don’t have the time to invest in an MMO? I don’t care. The lowest common denominator of gaming.

Give it to me now, cause I “got a life”.

I’m hooked, how is having a life and still wanting to spend your time in game doing something fun a bad thing?

/popcorn

Yes, do tell. I’m a bad person for wanting to uh… actually PLAY my game that I paid for rather than run around not actually playing?

killcannon.2576:

You would be right if I compared his play time to mine…but I didn’t. What I am saying is….The amount of time you have to play doesn’t matter to me. It’s not a factor, period.

If you don’t have enough time to play a game…why do I care? It has nothing to do with anything.

Why not remove some waypoints? Because then everyone’s precious zerg train takes a hit. That’s really why people don’t want waypoints removed.

I was more referring to the “These players caused the rise of microtransactions, gold sellers, and rise of the cash shops in games.” part of what you said. You’re blaming this guy for things you dislike in MMOs now because he wants to spend the time he has playing the game and not walking through it. That is what made you come off as elitist. You might have had a point if he were using it as a reason to remove things and make things easier, but he’s not. He’s just wants it to stay as it is and as it has been.

Also, I’m fairly new to the game and encountered a zerg train for the first time yesterday. I was mildly disappointed that I didn’t make it to the boss mob in time to get a hit or two in but I was happy enough to continue killing bandits in the cave like I was. It’s whatever to me. People in every game I’ve played (and there’s been a lot) have found some way to use what’s around them to maximize what they can get from things. That’s not going to change if they knock off a few way points. People will find a different way to do things because the type of people who like to zerg will do so and they have every right to. Just like people have every right to walk everywhere and people have every right to teleport using the system already in game.

Trying to take something away from any of those people will upset far more than it will make happy. It also won’t remove all those things you mentioned. In fact, taking away conveniences is usually what causes more people to gravitate towards those.

Fewer waypoints in each zone
I feel that each zone should have fewer waypoints as some of them are quite excessive with their placement. However, if waypoint numbers remain as they are currently (unlikely to ever have a reduciton), then I would like to see:

Players must be at a waypoint in order to travel to another waypoint
I really don’t like people simply disappearing (en masse in train cases) from the game world to then suddenly appear at a waypoint. Also, I do not understand how a player accesses the waypoint system without actually being at a waypoint. Players should be required to run to a waypoint and interact with it to then bring up a map of waypoints to transfer to.

Sibenice.5298:

killcannon.2576:

You would be right if I compared his play time to mine…but I didn’t. What I am saying is….The amount of time you have to play doesn’t matter to me. It’s not a factor, period.

If you don’t have enough time to play a game…why do I care? It has nothing to do with anything.

Why not remove some waypoints? Because then everyone’s precious zerg train takes a hit. That’s really why people don’t want waypoints removed.

I was more referring to the “These players caused the rise of microtransactions, gold sellers, and rise of the cash shops in games.” part of what you said. You’re blaming this guy for things you dislike in MMOs now because he wants to spend the time he has playing the game and not walking through it. That is what made you come off as elitist. You might have had a point if he were using it as a reason to remove things and make things easier, but he’s not. He’s just wants it to stay as it is and as it has been.

Also, I’m fairly new to the game and encountered a zerg train for the first time yesterday. I was mildly disappointed that I didn’t make it to the boss mob in time to get a hit or two in but I was happy enough to continue killing bandits in the cave like I was. It’s whatever to me. People in every game I’ve played (and there’s been a lot) have found some way to use what’s around them to maximize what they can get from things. That’s not going to change if they knock off a few way points. People will find a different way to do things because the type of people who like to zerg will do so and they have every right to. Just like people have every right to walk everywhere and people have every right to teleport using the system already in game.

Trying to take something away from any of those people will upset far more than it will make happy. It also won’t remove all those things you mentioned. In fact, taking away conveniences is usually what causes more people to gravitate towards those.

So…since it’s hard, don’t do it then.

It would definitely rattle some cages (removing a few waypoints), but that’s what the forums are for. To produce ideas and discuss them, not disregard them out of hand because someone, somewhere gets a little upset.

The point is to make a better game for everyone. Remove all the wp’s? not a great idea. But, it’s an issue that some players are having and deserves being discussed. The wp zerging is a BAD thing in this game. People have gotten used to it and now rely on it. And it’s one of the first things new players notice. Can’t imagine why box sales are in the toilet? Why new player retention isn’t there? Well…there’s one reason.

Leaving it alone just because it’s there isn’t a good reason not to discuss it.

If wp’s go, then I would hope a much faster mode of transportation or auto-pathing w/o aggro issues be added to the game. Its one thing to explore, its entirely another to make everyone plod across a huge world at a snails pace.
Think Orr is dead now? Try doing events there when everyone has to run through all 3 maps to do any of the temples. None of those events would be worth the run from LA or where ever the starting point was.

killcannon.2576:

Where did I say anything was hard? O.o

Your reading comprehension confuses me.

There’s also a large difference between fundamentally disagreeing and realizing that something is never going to happen and disregarding. This like the the people who jump on the WoW forums and ask for flying mounts to be taken away. Travel convenience that’s been in the game for the majority of the game’s lifespan, lots of people like/utilize it, it’s not going anywhere and there would be a far larger outcry from the people who like it than the people who are trying to get it taken out. Pretty parallel. :P

They’ll find another way to zerg. The people who try to maximize the amount of whatever game item you need lots of will find a way to do so, regardless. This has been a thing since the first games came out. I’ve seen it in every game I’ve played, including other games that have similar event things that don’t have the same travel system. Removing some way points won’t really solve the problem. Also, I’d love to see some numbers backing up your conclusion that zerg trains are part of the reason the game is losing people. I really dislike when people go “OMG, game is dying because of this thing I don’t like!!!” without any substantial proof.

Oh, also; “This guy I knew quit the game because of them” isn’t proof.

Try not to forget that the WPs are a gold sink in game. I doubt ANet is going to want to take those away.

I would also like to see data on zerg trains causing loss of customers.

Yes… Waypoints definitely made the amazing world feel completely insignificant because you could skip over it. I think it;’s one of the factors that really contributed to my decision to leave the game.

ozmaniandevil.6805:

The open world is way too big. You know how many world bosses would get done if there were no WPs? None. I’m not wasting an hour running from one side of the Tyria to the other just to do an event. Ever. It would be over before I got anywhere anyway. Oh, or maybe I could just make 30 characters, one for each huge map, and park it there. That sounds like fun…. NOT.

It’s going to take a developer to stand in the face of players like this and build a world where travel matters, leaving them with their jaw hanging open in disbelief. Only then will they see that it’s actually better for them.

ozmaniandevil.6805:

Try not to forget that the WPs are a gold sink in game. I doubt ANet is going to want to take those away.

I would also like to see data on zerg trains causing loss of customers.

Mounts could be the new gold sink.

People have been trying to get mounts here forever. That doesn’t look to be in the cards. If they do add a way to get from one place to another as quick as the WPs, count me in. Until then, leave them exactly as they are, thankyouverymuch.

Zeldain.5710:

It’s going to take a developer to stand in the face of players like this and build a world where travel matters, leaving them with their jaw hanging open in disbelief. Only then will they see that it’s actually better for them.

Actually, it’s just a matter of a differing of opinion in what some people prefer in a game over others. A huge amazing world may be extremely important to some while it may be irrelevant to others. That’s why games compromise and put in the world and the ability to walk around and explore it but also add travel options for those who don’t care and just want to hit things with fire. There’s no “better for them” in this case and if you try to impose your way onto other people you will only scare them away.

Sibenice.5298:

killcannon.2576:

Where did I say anything was hard? O.o

Your reading comprehension confuses me.

There’s also a large difference between fundamentally disagreeing and realizing that something is never going to happen and disregarding. This like the the people who jump on the WoW forums and ask for flying mounts to be taken away. Travel convenience that’s been in the game for the majority of the game’s lifespan, lots of people like/utilize it, it’s not going anywhere and there would be a far larger outcry from the people who like it than the people who are trying to get it taken out. Pretty parallel. :P

They’ll find another way to zerg. The people who try to maximize the amount of whatever game item you need lots of will find a way to do so, regardless. This has been a thing since the first games came out. I’ve seen it in every game I’ve played, including other games that have similar event things that don’t have the same travel system. Removing some way points won’t really solve the problem. Also, I’d love to see some numbers backing up your conclusion that zerg trains are part of the reason the game is losing people. I really dislike when people go “OMG, game is dying because of this thing I don’t like!!!” without any substantial proof.

Perhaps you do not comprehend what you are writing?

Your essential take on it is “No matter what you do, people are going to zerg, so why try at all…IT’s too hard! Don’t complain, don’t rock the boat! Let’s just hug and sing kum ba yah”

We aren’t devs. We aren’t fixing or implementing anything here. We are discussing it. If you can’t add anything to the discussion except " Can’t be done, nope sorry, too hard, why try" the arguments you produce are just extraneous.

The only thing parallel between WoW and GW2 currently is pandering to the lowest common denominator of the player population. I left when they started introducing welfare epics and lfr. I can also see how flying mounts everywhere trivialize their game world.

The fact is, it would be hard for the population to swallow removing some wp’s. But should it be done for the overall health of the game in the long run? Probably.

lol, I don’t have numbers. This is a forum. If people can’t or won’t recognize that most of what people say is opinion, then I don’t know what to say. I didn’t use hard numbers because I don’t have them. Just anecdotal evidence from forum posters, box sales declining, the number of new players coming in and staying from my experience in the game world, the articles being written by gaming websites, and marked decrease of interaction across all forms of media for GW2.

What do new players see when coming into the game world? Zerg trains. What do they see when they move past the starter zones on all but the most popular servers? Empty seeming zones. What does this tell the new adopter of GW2? The game play is the zerg train. Go to wubwub? zerg train. Who stays? people willing to adopt the zerg train and it’s play style. Think that’s a lot of players? dunno, doesn’t seem like it with the sales figures that we know of and the reports from lower population servers.

Fixing the problem needs to start somewhere, before all the game has left is zergers. WP’s can be a start of the discussion.

Or we can just sit around and twiddle our thumbs.

No. If you think they “break immersion”, feel free to not use them. I’m not going to have my time wasted just because you think there’s some kind of virtue in slogging through the snow, barefoot, uphill both ways.

Wow! So many pitchforks and blazing torches! I can never tell if I love or hate gaming forums.

And for the topic – I don’t care either way.

NO! I have little time to play. If I want to immerse myself in the world and walk, I will. If I just want to get stuff done, I don’t.

Why is it so difficult for people to just not use things they are not fond of?

killcannon.2576:

Perhaps you do not comprehend what you are writing?

Your essential take on it is “No matter what you do, people are going to zerg, so why try at all…IT’s too hard! Don’t complain, don’t rock the boat! Let’s just hug and sing kum ba yah”

We aren’t devs. We aren’t fixing or implementing anything here. We are discussing it. If you can’t add anything to the discussion except " Can’t be done, nope sorry, too hard, why try" the arguments you produce are just extraneous.

The only thing parallel between WoW and GW2 currently is pandering to the lowest common denominator of the player population. I left when they started introducing welfare epics and lfr. I can also see how flying mounts everywhere trivialize their game world.

The fact is, it would be hard for the population to swallow removing some wp’s. But should it be done for the overall health of the game in the long run? Probably.

lol, I don’t have numbers. This is a forum. If people can’t or won’t recognize that most of what people say is opinion, then I don’t know what to say. I didn’t use hard numbers because I don’t have them. Just anecdotal evidence from forum posters, box sales declining, the number of new players coming in and staying from my experience in the game world, the articles being written by gaming websites, and marked decrease of interaction across all forms of media for GW2.

What do new players see when coming into the game world? Zerg trains. What do they see when they move past the starter zones on all but the most popular servers? Empty seeming zones. What does this tell the new adopter of GW2? The game play is the zerg train. Go to wubwub? zerg train. Who stays? people willing to adopt the zerg train and it’s play style. Think that’s a lot of players? dunno, doesn’t seem like it with the sales figures that we know of and the reports from lower population servers.

Fixing the problem needs to start somewhere, before all the game has left is zergers. WP’s can be a start of the discussion.

Or we can just sit around and twiddle our thumbs.

Yes, no matter what they do, people will zerg. But no where did I say they shouldn’t try to do anything about it. Nor did I say it was too hard. I simply believe that removing conveniences from the average player is not the correct way to go about it because it doesn’t fix the problem.

If you don’t have numbers you shouldn’t state something as fact. “Well…there’s one reason.” If you can’t back it up, it’s not a reason so don’t try to act like it is. It just makes you look ignorant. Now, don’t try to mix this point up either, I’m not saying it’s not a problem and could potentially be a reason for a decline. I just don’t like when people get hit on the head with an apple and decide the sky is falling without getting any proof. This is something you don’t like, and I’m sure there are others as well but none of us know if it’s something the majority of people don’t like, nor do we know if it’s something that lots of people have left over.

Also, as someone who is relatively new to this game (but has been MMOing for a decade and a half or so) I’ve got a level 20 and multiple other characters out of the starter zone and yesterday is the first day since I started that I’ve seen one. I’ve also been trying to take it slow, explore and enjoy the story because I’ve got my “hardcore” fix in another game currently. I really don’t think it’s as bad as you think. Especially since I made sure I picked a higher pop server.

zenleto.6179:

Wow! So many pitchforks and blazing torches! I can never tell if I love or hate gaming forums.

And for the topic – I don’t care either way.

LOL …..

I think Azure (OP) started the thread, made a couple replies while making his popcorn and is kick’d back with a big bowl and a frosty beverage having a good laugh.

Sibenice.5298:

killcannon.2576:

Perhaps you do not comprehend what you are writing?

Your essential take on it is “No matter what you do, people are going to zerg, so why try at all…IT’s too hard! Don’t complain, don’t rock the boat! Let’s just hug and sing kum ba yah”

We aren’t devs. We aren’t fixing or implementing anything here. We are discussing it. If you can’t add anything to the discussion except " Can’t be done, nope sorry, too hard, why try" the arguments you produce are just extraneous.

The only thing parallel between WoW and GW2 currently is pandering to the lowest common denominator of the player population. I left when they started introducing welfare epics and lfr. I can also see how flying mounts everywhere trivialize their game world.

The fact is, it would be hard for the population to swallow removing some wp’s. But should it be done for the overall health of the game in the long run? Probably.

lol, I don’t have numbers. This is a forum. If people can’t or won’t recognize that most of what people say is opinion, then I don’t know what to say. I didn’t use hard numbers because I don’t have them. Just anecdotal evidence from forum posters, box sales declining, the number of new players coming in and staying from my experience in the game world, the articles being written by gaming websites, and marked decrease of interaction across all forms of media for GW2.

What do new players see when coming into the game world? Zerg trains. What do they see when they move past the starter zones on all but the most popular servers? Empty seeming zones. What does this tell the new adopter of GW2? The game play is the zerg train. Go to wubwub? zerg train. Who stays? people willing to adopt the zerg train and it’s play style. Think that’s a lot of players? dunno, doesn’t seem like it with the sales figures that we know of and the reports from lower population servers.

Fixing the problem needs to start somewhere, before all the game has left is zergers. WP’s can be a start of the discussion.

Or we can just sit around and twiddle our thumbs.

Yes, no matter what they do, people will zerg. But no where did I say they shouldn’t try to do anything about it. Nor did I say it was too hard. I simply believe that removing conveniences from the average player is not the correct way to go about it because it doesn’t fix the problem.

If you don’t have numbers you shouldn’t state something as fact. “Well…there’s one reason.” If you can’t back it up, it’s not a reason so don’t try to act like it is. It just makes you look ignorant. Now, don’t try to mix this point up either, I’m not saying it’s not a problem and could potentially be a reason for a decline. I just don’t like when people get hit on the head with an apple and decide the sky is falling without getting any proof. This is something you don’t like, and I’m sure there are others as well but none of us know if it’s something the majority of people don’t like, nor do we know if it’s something that lots of people have left over.

Also, as someone who is relatively new to this game (but has been MMOing for a decade and a half or so) I’ve got a level 20 and multiple other characters out of the starter zone and yesterday is the first day since I started that I’ve seen one. I’ve also been trying to take it slow, explore and enjoy the story because I’ve got my “hardcore” fix in another game currently. I really don’t think it’s as bad as you think. Especially since I made sure I picked a higher pop server.

Drawing rational cause and effect scenarios relates to the sky falling? Hyperbole much?

I’m not a big fan of herd play. However, attributing the tendency of players to play in herds solely to the existence of waypoints seems like a stretch.

Herd play is fostered by the developer, whose approach to new content is the herd event of the week. Herd play is fostered by the developer, whose approach to BiS weapons and armor is crafting, requiring some materials that drop only in meta events, temples and from keep lords in Wv. Herd play is fostered by the developer, whose approach to rewards involves limiting where they can best be obtained.

Removing some waypoints might reduce champ trains in Queensdale, it might not. People will still flock to the next best thing. Removing waypoints will in no way solve the empty zones issue. It might make it worse.

Currently, if a player in a guild asks for help in zone A, chances are a guild member might WP in and help. How many guild members will no longer do so if they have to WP and then run halfway across a zone to get there? You might say that’s far-fetched, but it’s no more far-fetched than thinking players will suddenly spread out to various zones if it’s harder to get around.

Blanger.3162:

zenleto.6179:

Wow! So many pitchforks and blazing torches! I can never tell if I love or hate gaming forums.

And for the topic – I don’t care either way.

LOL …..

I think Azure (OP) started the thread, made a couple replies while making his popcorn and is kick’d back with a big bowl and a frosty beverage having a good laugh.

It’s been awhile since we’ve had a good knock, down drag out on the forums. Where’s Michael Buffer when you need him?

killcannon.2576:

Drawing rational cause and effect scenarios relates to the sky falling? Hyperbole much?

Sure, it’d be a hyperbole if the scenario was rational. But, it’s not. That’s why I called you chicken little.

Lots of people zerg>some people don’t like zerg>zerg killing the game and it’s somehow the fault of waypoints is not exactly a rational chain of events unless you have some sort of proof to back it up, sorry.

IndigoSundown.5419:

I’m not a big fan of herd play. However, attributing the tendency of players to play in herds solely to the existence of waypoints seems like a stretch.

Herd play is fostered by the developer, whose approach to new content is the herd event of the week. Herd play is fostered by the developer, whose approach to BiS weapons and armor is crafting, requiring some materials that drop only in meta events, temples and from keep lords in Wv. Herd play is fostered by the developer, whose approach to rewards involves limiting where they can best be obtained.

Just quoting this for emphasis as he said what I was going to already.

Blanger.3162:

zenleto.6179:

Wow! So many pitchforks and blazing torches! I can never tell if I love or hate gaming forums.

And for the topic – I don’t care either way.

LOL …..

I think Azure (OP) started the thread, made a couple replies while making his popcorn and is kick’d back with a big bowl and a frosty beverage having a good laugh.

You’re probably not wrong. He’d know what most of the responses would be before even starting.

IndigoSundown.5419:

I’m not a big fan of herd play. However, attributing the tendency of players to play in herds solely to the existence of waypoints seems like a stretch.

Herd play is fostered by the developer, whose approach to new content is the herd event of the week. Herd play is fostered by the developer, whose approach to BiS weapons and armor is crafting, requiring some materials that drop only in meta events, temples and from keep lords in Wv. Herd play is fostered by the developer, whose approach to rewards involves limiting where they can best be obtained.

Removing some waypoints might reduce champ trains in Queensdale, it might not. People will still flock to the next best thing. Removing waypoints will in no way solve the empty zones issue. It might make it worse.

Currently, if a player in a guild asks for help in zone A, chances are a guild member might WP in and help. How many guild members will no longer do so if they have to WP and then run halfway across a zone to get there? You might say that’s far-fetched, but it’s no more far-fetched than thinking players will suddenly spread out to various zones if it’s harder to get around.

It won’t fix it, and it is definitely not the only cause. It definitely is being caused by the developers with the content they introduce, and the way players have to go about feeling impactful in game (gold>anything else).

Mostly the wp’s are just part of the whole endemic system this game has headed since the introduction of the LS. I don’t really care about them as much as I’d like to see the game focus more on exploration, discovery, multi stage DE’s, and a return to strong personal involvement on a character level in lore and personal story.

The wp’s are just a scapegoat.

No. The only thing that will do is add wasted time in traveling. I don’t want to waste a hour of gameplay time every day just to run across the world map to get to where I want to go. There’s absolutely no upside to that.

Im with everyone else.

Although i wouldnt mind removing about half of them.

killcannon.2576:

Sibenice.5298:

killcannon.2576:

Oh…one of the “I got a life” elites. Don’t have the time to invest in an MMO? I don’t care. The lowest common denominator of gaming.

Give it to me now, cause I “got a life”. These players caused the rise of microtransactions, gold sellers, and rise of the cash shops in games. The faster a mmo can get rid of these types of players, the better.

Sorry, but you’re the one that’s coming off as elite here. “Sorry you don’t have as much time to play as I do but suck it up because I’m the right one to be playing this game anyways”. Yeah, that makes you sound great. rollseyes

I’m one of those people that has hours upon hours to play and I’m all for way points. Let people play the game. Walking to your destination the entire time isn’t playing it, it’s wasting time. I’d much prefer to spend my time killing/gathering/questing/etc than walking and I have time to kill. Others disagree and enjoy the walking, that’s fine. I’m not clamoring for their walking abilities to be taken away.

*You would be right if I compared his play time to mine…but I didn’t. What I am saying is….The amount of time you have to play doesn’t matter to me. It’s not a factor, period.

If you don’t have enough time to play a game…why do I care? It has nothing to do with anything. *

Why not remove some waypoints? Because then everyone’s precious zerg train takes a hit. That’s really why people don’t want waypoints removed.

You may not care but Anet does. It may not be a factor to you but it is a factor to Anet as you alone assuming youre not a millionaire do not have enough fund by yourself to keep the game alive.

Like everyone else in the thread has said you can just not use the waypoint and that way you are immersed. I see no reason why your desire for immersion has to be shoved down everybody else’s throat though.

Why remove options? As it is currently players like you that favor immersion can still run through tyria and see all the pretty places. And other players who dont care much about immersion can get to their gameplay quicker.

If you don’t want to use them then don’t use them. Personally, I like them.

Also, waypoints were here before the LS and before champ trains. Don’t blame them, they are innocent bystanders.

Due to the inflammatory tone of the thread, it is now closed. Please keep in mind that if you want to discuss issues on this forum, you have to do so in a constructive and respectful way.