Guild Wars 2

“i can outrun a centaur!”

Yeah, everytime I hear a toon say that only to have the risen with artificially boosted perma speed catch up to them is rather funny.

You can’t kite some of them with speed either as they will just run right up to your face and force you into melee. That or they just CC you. And too many times, I’m finding that there are 1 or 2 mobs pelting me from behind that I can’t even see with my camera. How can they shoot that far? Or rather, why is their aggro radius so big??

I kind of like the corrupted abomination-esque atmosphere, but I do think the risen are kind of obnoxious. Maybe that’s how they are supposed to be, but map completion was a pain in Cursed Shore, what with those suckers pulling you around all the time. It’s a bit more fun now, because I just hop from DE to DE without caring about POI’s, etc. Also, at the time I completed it, there weren’t as many people in Orr, and having people to assist you helps a lot.

So after reading this whole thread, the consensus seems to be something 1/10 like Orr.

And 7/10 who had an opinion want more level 80 areas.

Granted, this is just the forums, and just a tiny survery.

But… I’m willing to bet that this means that since these are game design professionals, soon (10/1/12 maybe?) there will be several new 80+ zones released.

I hope so.

Because the one that’s here seems to be almost universally hated. So best case is “new surprise” content.

Worst case is, “we tuned what’s there to suck less.”

Meh. I’m not convinced about this game at all anymore, much less enthused or convinced that the developers want to deliver what the marketing hype promised.

I’ll wait. We’ll see.

i’m in the minority of posters here, but i love orr. the backstory and the landscape is supposed to be depressing and anet delivered. the mob density is perfect for farming mats/rares. i go solo always and i never have issues with dying(unless i fell). usually, i make about 4-5s/hr so money is good just from selling scraps.

malchor and cursed shore are both 100% for me so i’m working on straits next. sad to be leaving orr…

I hope Anet is listening, majority of players don’t like Orr. Mobs respawn to fast and no breathing room anywhere. Its not even hard, i just speed buff myself around the place because there is no point in killing anything. When i fight 1 thing another mob joins in, by the time i kill them mobs start respawning around me and i just say f-it and run. I loved every other zone tho.

4-5s an hour… that’s gotta be the lowest farming speed I’ve EVER heard of.

Mob density is way way way too high. If you try to just run, you always risk death.

Mob respawn rate is through the roof. If you don’t run through, and try to fight them off, it is not unlikely you will not progress at all.

Extremely annoying undead, running too fast, with skills that drag you backwards. I wish there were other types of mobs there but I guess it doesn’t fit the lore.

The look of the zone is fine I guess.

Events scale really badly, mob waves are instakilled in some events, in others they swarm you over.

In general, I’m not really keen on spending time there.

We’ve been playing Malchor’s Leap and Cursed Shore as a guild group of 5 over the past couple of nights, and it is great fun that way, although still tiring after a while.
Last night especially with the majority of events fixed, it was fantastic fun pinballing from event to event, with shiny event symbols popping up on the map making us feel like indecisive magpies.
We even killed the Champion Risen Megalodon. As we started pulling it, an Asura guy stopped, and clearly baffled by our seeming insanity, asked “What are you guys doing?!”, to which I responded by pulling it near the shore, at which point we all shot at it from relative safety ‘til it was good and dead, whereupon I said "That’s what we’re doing".

For those not in the know, even with a very tough build featuring a full set of exotic Knight’s armour, lots of regen and over 23,000 HP, the Risen Megalodon can still take me down in two very quick chomps. He’s a bad kitten.
The scary thing was that even though I’d pulled him to the shoreline, occasionally he’d start to swim away, at which point I would have to dive in and poke him in the ribs to get his attention and pull him back.
Fun times.

At first, i hated Orr, because i was just trying to run through, grab all my crap for map completion and get my story line done. I thought it was stupid that all mobs are Humaniod undeads and drop limited max level mats, then i opened up to frostgorge and fireheart area which are like 77-80 level areas, not to mention you can get max level mats on WvWvW maps. Orr isnt so bad, but with the next expansion, id like so see some better max level areas.

Oh yeah, and I made close to 10,000 karma from doing those events last night in about 4 hours. Sure, I made a paltry amount of cash, but it’s a good, fun karma mine.
What I will say though is that massive zergs spoil it. If you’re going to tool around in Cursed Shore and want to keep it fun, keep your groups small and stay away from the big zergs.
This again highlights the massive problem with there only being one truly level 80 zone in the game. Over time, it’ll become over-saturated. We need more level 80 content very quickly.

Orr needs to be less mob, more bigger events. Nuff said

Orr is fine as it is if the Orr we have now is like..the worst possible scenario where the Pact fails to make a landing, or are pushed off the island by failed events.

For example, I think there’s a mention that Risen pour through or rally around Grenth statues (which they don’t, it’s only mentioned for the event I believe), but I can understand this much Risen density if they controlled the Grenth statues.

Once we and the Pact take it over the Risen all around Orr should diminish or flee, similar to other DE’s where you drive off the invading force.

As it is, owning the temples really doesn’t give us much except a semi-safe spot, vendors and a waypoint.

Some type of buff, or better yet a real impact on the Risen for us owning temples should work perfectly, as it also gives us a big incentive to take and hold temples, as well as lightening the travel and combat burden in Orr.

rhodoc.2381:

Orr needs to be less mob, more bigger events. Nuff said

Yeah, they really should implement the whole “events scale with the number of players” aspect they promised. If there’s 30 people at an event it ought to spawn veterans instead of normals.

What put me off Orr originally was bugged event chains. With the chain working Orr feels like a battlezone where your fighting for territory. Your behind enemy lines and if your on your own its going to be intense. Working properly however I like the concept behind Orr.

I would like to see some more complex event chains. Some of them were very simple. Things like taking the Temple of Lyssa was good cause it required some level of coordination between players on the map to take and hold the seals to gain access to the main boss. I think this would be good on a larger scale and is the guts of event webs. zergs arent as fun as coordinated efforts.

Mob density is a bit of a hassle particularly in the SoD. There is no clear road to the second zone so passing through requires alot of fighting. In Malchor’s Leap however traversing was easy once you figured out where enemies were spaced. You had to keep your eyes out for them but if you were just passing through and kept to the road you could avoid most enemies.

Orr is a zone where rushing and not getting involved will result poorly for players. Taking your time and co ordinating with other players yeilds very nice results and can earn you a huge amount of karma.

I think it can be done better but for a first go I think its not bad. The biggest issue was event bugs and some event scaling. As a rule, if the event has a champion level mob it needs a Group tag on it.

I have very mixed feelings about Orr.

The first thing you notice when you go there, is that there are no heart quests. When you realize this, it begins: the great run for POIs and SPs. You don’t pay attention to anything else.

On your way to Cursed Shore, you notice these blue tower icons on the map, but you don’t pay much attention to them. Until you’ve gotten every POI and SP. Then you realize you get chests from them “OMG!”

The enemies have been made specifically against this mindset: to prevent you from just running from place to another. Every, I mean EVERY enemy has some sort of immobilize, pull, stun, knockdown etc. ability. And that’s what makes people feel so frustrated about Orr.

When I had 3 Risen Putrifiers boomeranging me between them for like 15 seconds, I laughed so hard. It was so ridiculous.

When traveling Orr, I just switch my spells to as defensive as possible. Armor of Earth, Arcane Shield and Mist Form all get frequent use. They prevent these ridiculous boomeranging sessions.

And I think the Risen could’ve used some better voice acting. “Dead, good” sweet mother of mercy, who came up with these? The abominations are the only things that sound a little scary, instead of ridiculous.

Derpinator.2894:

So after reading this whole thread, the consensus seems to be something 1/10 like Orr.

And 7/10 who had an opinion want more level 80 areas.

Granted, this is just the forums, and just a tiny survery.

But… I’m willing to bet that this means that since these are game design professionals, soon (10/1/12 maybe?) there will be several new 80+ zones released.

I hope so.

Because the one that’s here seems to be almost universally hated. So best case is “new surprise” content.

Worst case is, “we tuned what’s there to suck less.”

Meh. I’m not convinced about this game at all anymore, much less enthused or convinced that the developers want to deliver what the marketing hype promised.

I’ll wait. We’ll see.

Or a simpler solution. Try to make ORR more fun so that players don’t avoid it. I think devs should read this topic very thoroughly because there are same great ideas on how to attract more players to actually participate in ORR and not just complete the 100% map and never return.

AnubisMe.6579:

Most people have already responed what I wanted to say. To me it really feels like they rushed the Orr parts, the undead are not all that cool looking and the orr area just sucks allt he fun out of the game. The rest of the game is amzing and was lots of fun, but Orr. . . I hope they improve this area.

I agree. Ive been thinking about this too. The end game does feel rushed. It just seems as it lacks the polish that 1-75ish? had.

Orr needs less content that is revolving around super dense mob populations and re-spawn insanity…
And more content that is seldom seen in PvE.

I like having to dodge the trebuchets in Orr. Made it feel like a crazy warzone.
Perhaps it needs more stuff from WvW, like enemy siege weapons and enemy structures that need to be taken down.
And environmental effects like the Ice Lake from Eye of The North in GW1.

Sounds like a bunch of people who didn’t learn how to play there profession in the time it took to get for 1 to 70

You see a mining node? No you shouldn’t be able to walk around all the mobs and get your juicy ore.. yes the threat of being overwhelmed is high, plan ahead.. change your build.. use different weapons if need be. You are playing in the final zones of the game it isn’t supposed to be easy.. it’s supposed to constantly challenge you.. and the challenge in this game comes from combat.

Anet told us Orr wasn’t like the rest of the game and yeah it really is.. I really hope they don’t bend and change what they have built to suit people who would rather play the game half asleep.. by the lore of the world this place should be utterly crawling with risen and be completely inhospitable for people to be in.

It tends to be the minority who post stuff on forums.. so I hope thats all this thread is really, sad to see though.

“Anet told us Orr wasn’t like the rest of the game…”

Where did you hear this?

“It tends to be the minority who post stuff on forums”

And you’re FAR in the minority being of the group that thinks the current spawn rate and density is good. Guess what, that makes you wrong. Who do you think matters more to anet? You, or the dozen people opposite of your opinion (hint: it’s not you).

Since they aren’t taking subs from the people complaining, i’m guessing it doesn’t matter to them in any way.. and they will design the game they want to make

I like Orr overall, the atmosphere is great and just what I’d expect based on the lore. I would still like to see more 80 areas, just for variety. I assume these will come in the content patches. (I’m guessing that’s why the Ring of Fire is on the map?)

The only real complaints I have about Orr are:

1. The events need to scale up more because some of them are being flattened way too quickly because of the sheer number of people there.

2. Not sure what you could do about this exactly, but everyone is going to Cursed Shore and the other two Orr zones seem little under-populated at times, even though there are temples in the other zones as well.

Orr is hands down some of the worst zones in the game.

I finished off all three Orr maps (if you count Straits of Deastation) – and while it was quite difficult in the beginning, I was having a blast yesterday doing a big event chain. Yes, it was definitely created around group play – this is, after all, not a single player game You can solo Orr, it’s just a good deal more difficult.
Also it does have quite a few interesting ideas and, as always, nice details built into the world…If you want to have abreather while doing lvl 70-80 content, go to that Norn area where you can happen upon Jormag’s claw

Btw: The only way I (as a necro) got myself killed a couple of times was by trying to get somewhere, choosing the wrong way, and trying to just run past waves and waves of undead…until I ran into a wall. Was quite funny though XD

Ah, yes: The reward for completing the zones was quite nice. The last one even gave me orange gear which I could use! With runes which fit my build! I only ever got Orichalcum though, when I really would have preferred gossamer…oh well, off to farm we go…

I agree though that the respawn rates were quite high at times…in the time it took me and a couple of other guys to take down a champion, I think we had to fight off his respawning minions 3-5 times…

Orr needs an overhaul, simple as that. Every time I go there I find a new reason to dislike it (like thekittenskill point where I’m getting bombarded every 3s, with no way to resolve it).

Leave it to the guys who designed Frostgorge Sound; that zone is awesome.

Mickey.4207:

I think devs should read this topic very thoroughly because there are same great ideas on how to attract more players to actually participate in ORR and not just complete the 100% map and never return.

That’s what I’d like to do; complete the maps and never ever come back. I just finished farming for the one piece from the only dungeon I’m interested in, and have no plans on running any more of those again, even though I’ve really enjoyed dungeon crawling in other MMOs.

Seems like totally wasted content to me.

re spawning time of the mobs is very fast

It’s not just in Orr. There are far too many places where mobs start respawning before you’ve even finished looting their previous incarnation. Just popping out of thin air. It’s annoying, makes the world feel fake, and defeats any sense of accomplishment.

It’s not that hard for a mob spawn point to check if there are any players in range and, if so, delay the spawn or make the creature spawn somewhere else.

robot.9134:

I have an 80 ranger. I’ve pretty much decided to reroll until 80 looks more fun and character balance starts again.

Part of the reason I kept making alts was to slow down my path to 80. Higher-level content is almost always less polished (cause it was less tested) and I wanted to give them time. Now I have a level 60 and 2 30s.

Spawn.7014:

Orr is hands down some of the worst zones in the game.

But then I started reading a lot of comments like that, and now I’m feeling a bit demotivated altogether. Plus I think I was burning out on running from one “emergency” (aka DE) to the next and also I was starting to experience the mob-packing even around level 60. I’m thinking, “If I’m already annoyed by this, what these people are telling me about Orr is really not going to make me happy.” Because it sounds the same but worse :/

Well hopefully they can re-work it a bit. No sub, so no big worries I guess

Halo.1064:

robot.9134:

I have an 80 ranger. I’ve pretty much decided to reroll until 80 looks more fun and character balance starts again.

Part of the reason I kept making alts was to slow down my path to 80. Higher-level content is almost always less polished (cause it was less tested) and I wanted to give them time. Now I have a level 60 and 2 30s.

Spawn.7014:

Orr is hands down some of the worst zones in the game.

But then I started reading a lot of comments like that, and now I’m feeling a bit demotivated altogether. Plus I think I was burning out on running from one “emergency” (aka DE) to the next and also I was starting to experience the mob-packing even around level 60. I’m thinking, “If I’m already annoyed by this, what these people are telling me about Orr is really not going to make me happy.” Because it sounds the same but worse :/

Well hopefully they can re-work it a bit. No sub, so no big worries I guess

It got better once I was decked out in full lvl 80 greens, since I had 60+ gear on before that. The slows and pulls are still annoying as hell though.

Yeah, on Tarnished Coast the southern invasion in SoD won’t send reinforcements to the rally point (been that way for several days now). As a result nothing happens but the defensive holds on an endless loop.

At this point interest has waned and even the northern and central invasions frequently lose their beach-heads (even though those two segments are still waiting at the rally point according to the overall status). I even saw it get all the way to having basically nothing left but Fort Trinity at one point. ML was just barren, I think I saw maybe 2 other players in an hour+ of running around to WPs/POIs. Haven’t even been to CS, yet.

I finished my last 15-20 levels very over-leveled for the zones I was in and final wrap-up was in FS. I fitted up in rares and headed to Orr hoping to experience the pinnacle of dynamic group world play and start the journey towards set of Melandru exotics and have made next to no progress on that after almost a week.

This is compounded by the fact that I prefer to play in a support role. Providing buffs/boons, healing and reviving like crazy while taking shots of opportunity or when things get a bit overwhelming sometimes knocks me down to silver (or even bronze if we’re short-handed and getting hammered a bit), which doesn’t help.

I’ve been an advocate of open-group world content models where your efforts and outcomes change the situation and reality of the game world around you for a decade now. While the efforts they are making are certainly more than available elsewhere, there’s clearly some need for iteration. Don’t get me wrong, though, it isn’t like the raid farming model started out looking anything like the highly refined concepts that get pumped out in treadmill games at this point, either. It will take time and I hope they are willing to continue working at it and not change course to make a bunch of dungeons instead. But they definitely have to put the work in and get a better implementation of the concept or it’s back to 10 more years of arguments on MMO forums where people sneer at the idea of dynamic content and say “GW2 tried that and failed, so we should never try it again.”

So a day after patch and restart, the majority of Cursed Shore events are broken again. Boooooooo.

I’ll just copy/paste what I wrote elsewhere to point out my opinion:

The place leaves an odd taste in my mouth. I just think Orr can do with a bit of variety and scope. It just doesn’t feel all that epic.

Perhaps, rather than having large clumps of enemies stand around to create an illusion of a threat, the zones needs actual large scale threats. For instance, why not add some sort of corruption mechanic to the zone. Let’s say, there’s an area where blue corruption takes hold of a small part of the map, say a quarter of Malchor’s Leap, which then cause mage Orrians to appear and funnel corruptive energy into large orbs. This causes undead constructs to rise and wreak havoc. To end the threat players need to deal with the constructs, kill the mages, and destroy the orbs. There can be varied corruptions to keep the zone changing and interesting, like if red corruption spreads in an area, the enemies will go into frenzy, start mutating, and attack settlements.

Perhaps the zone can do with some large scale battles, like artillery plowing through hordes, and major clashes where NPCs and undead fight in great number, while players get to arm battlements to quell the hordes, or go into the fray to take on the hordes personally.

My favorite battle in the game has to be the Claw of Jormag. Blasting away at him, fighting his minions, watching cannons blow him from the sky, sending him crashing into the landscape, then taking him down while chaos erupts all around. It felt epic. When I came to Orr and saw dragons in the sky, taking on airships, I thought “wow, this is going to mind-blowing”.
But it wasn’t really. There were a lot of undead dotting the landscape, a skirmish here and there, and now and again small battles outside the temples. After a while in Orr I returned to Forstgorge, just because the zone feels better. The scenery was more varied and exciting.

Orr just needs more variety. Three zones that all feel the same, while Frostgorge has those sanctuaries, Yak’s bend, the dredge mines, all within one zone. Orr gets monotonous, fast, and I blame the scenery and the enemies just standing around. It needs something to throw you off the pattern that seems same old.

Maybe it would benefit from more large scale things happening. Battles and enemies, threats that feel worthy. So far the small skirmishes here and there and tripping over foes that pack you feels more like a chore than a threat, while large clashes would do the zone so much good. What if you encounter large, awe-inspiring foes. And I don’t mean the few giants wandering around. No, I mean having a bigger threat now and again, maybe not a dragon (we already have three) but perhaps a massive, multi-limbed undead creation that pops up, and chucks projectiles from afar, then players come in, and kill it piece by piece.

As a Thief, I really, really hate this place. I’m level 77, finished everything else, only Ruins of Orr is remaining. Half of the place is bugged, the other half is insanely difficult. Underwater skill challenges ALONE, while I deal ~100 damage each hit. And of course 3-4 mobs are attacking me all the time because of the really fast respawn time.

I hate Malchor’s Leap with a passion, slightly ok with Straits of Devastation, but love Cursed Shore (except the bot-zerg).

OK total Orr review from a guy that’s done most of Leap and all of Straits.

1) Events: Most of these, when they work properly, are fun. There’s a feeling of a ongoing war, with differing groups moving into position and engaging. The problem is they don’t work. Temple of Balthazar has been uncompletable on my server for ages (Blackgate) because the southern reinforcements never complete no matter what you do. It gets frustrating.

2) Anet, I agre with most others here about the mobs. There are hordes of them, fairly closely spaced, and they aggro from a exceptionally long distance. Tack in that every one has a cripple/pull back/immob, and every time you try to get somewhere you have to painstakingly fight through hordes of mobs. If large groups are clearing an area this becomes trivial; for 1-2 people exploring or such it’s a pain in the butt.

My suggestions are simple. For problem 1, fix the events. I’m sure you’re working on that anyway, so I’m not teribly concerned. A post to that affect would be nice though.

For problem 2…reduce aggro radius slightly, tone down the enemy crowd control, and maybe but out a few (10% or so?) of the spawns in the zone. That’s my recommendation.

Density is way too high, aggro radius is crap, too many mobs of the same category leading to anti-farm code being hit faster than initially intended (seriously just get rid of that, or tone it the hell down for us human players.) , certain events not able to be failed due to bots/ease/zerg tactics. Karma is…pitiful, silver rewards are the same (2 silver doesn’t even cover the waypoint it cost to get me there.) , broken skillpoints.

On the upside there are plenty of people around and mapchat is lively during primetime hours, you aren’t event starved because of player density.

I’d give it a 4/10 mostly because it gives me money and people to talk to.

Orr is by far my least favorite zone. It feels like events have absolutely zero impact. If you take a temple it is still surrounded by scores of mobs that attack as soon as you’re 15ft away from the karma vendor. The mobs are incredibly annoying(not hard), and by the cursed shore the coral/risen sea floor art is just monotonous.

Spoilers ahead….I think

None of the Temple/cathedral events are very epic. I mean I’d except limitations of the game engine, BUT then I look at Claw of Jormag and ask what happened? Use some over the top effects, HUGE spells, HUGE mobs, tons of cannon fodder enemies. The events should be hard to complete and the rewards should reflect that. The current chests are just awful even with a full MF set, MF guild buff, and MF food. Create a baseline bland skinned exotic set I can get from chests.

Cursed Shore should pick up after Treehearn(sp?) has cleansed the heart of orr and life is beginning to return. Zhaitan’s forces are trying to claw back territory and spread death once again. This would have given room for a change of scenery(lush green oh how I’ve missed you) and given the feeling of events having an impact as things turn from deathly brown to lively green as you take/lose things.

Malchor’s leap should take place after the cathedral is taken and zhaitan’s source of minions is stopped. This should effectively cut the mob density from here on out, unless the risen control the temple.

SoD needs more of a beach landing/invading feeling. The risen use boats, where are ours? Instead we swim a crossed the strait. We have airships and boats, make use of them! Being able to get into a boat or airship and pelt tons of risen would be a nice break and add some epicness.

The camp invasions in all 3 zones need reworked. First of all, camps should be attacked in a certain order. If there are 4 camps with camp 4 being the closest to zhaitan, then camp 4 should be the one getting attacked. The basic premise is that if we have camp 4 we’ve “cleared” all the land up to that point. So unless there is some secret tunnel the risen would have been spotted and killed by our occupying forces. This doesn’t mean you can’t throw a few wrenches into the mix though! Perhaps Zhaitan(or one of his dragon minions like in the story mode) just nukes a camp effectively cutting off the camps that come after it, leaving them to get attacked from both sides.

The risen should get stronger and stronger each time they fail to take a camp. This will force the events to push in a different direction. Also adding in different directions. Maybe one time the risen take a camp and just go after the next camp, another time they take the camp and try to obtain a powerful artiiact like the cauldron. Basically, have the risen trying to actually accomplish strategic objectives instead of just taking and holding a camp.

I agree with the op, Orr is just a place I don’t care much for.

I think Arenanet missed a point about the genre. If you want players to stay for hours in your game ,then most of the time they need to be chilling and paying semi attention. And then challenges places should be hard.

By trying and make everything hard instead, people play 45 minutes untill they lose their concentration and then they just log off.

Orr is alright.

But I was really expecting a more threatening, crystalline, fantasy-esque environment. I can almost smell the rotting fish when I play in there, I feel like this is a junkyard of bodies, and trashed lobster parts from behind Red Lobster.

I go to Orr and I instantly notice 2 things.
1. The background noise it the same you hear when you die.
2. It’s hell risen from the ocean.
Seriously Orr is hell, I refuse to go there unless I have 1 or 2 friends to back me up. But I love that about it. Orr isn’t easy, it isn’t a grocery store you can just stroll through, it’s a war zone. I go there and I suddenly feel like a human in a war against the machines.

In the future when I have more time to play again I can see it being a thing for me to do party runs through the zones to gather up some of the rare mats and get some karma.

Straits and to a lesser extent the 2nd zone are a pain. I ignore them because nobody goes there on my server so I can’t say. To top it off the mobs aren’t even 80 and I don’t seem to get nice rare 80’s to sell so why bother with that?

Oddly cursed shore is extremely easy. I just run past everything with a banner in hand and they lose interest. And really? What is there to run to? Grenth or those defense missions over and over? I have soloed king which was more long and tedious than hard (duck in cover from his “lazer” attack, come back out shoot arrows. Rinse and repeat). Grenth is killed usually after the 2nd failure (/map SHADES UP). Melandru is NEVER down or is bugged I am not sure anymore. He seems like a fun fight last time I killed him.

To put it simply: Orr feels empty. Just an mess of of defense missions with the occasional Grenth slapped on. It isn’t hard at all. Ohh yeah and Arah event if it isn’t in pact control.

-
Orr needed to be one zone. About the size of straits + half of cursed. It didn’t need to be three separate zones that are mostly ignored for easy Karma farming.

“You can’t kite some of them with speed either as they will just run right up to your face and force you into melee.”

I have many strategies as an elementalist, and can kite many of the melee mobs fine enough despite their speed. I’ll stand next to a ranged, earth shield the chaos storm thrower mobs, and as fire stand in my AoE lava field since you can’t kite that which has the same range as you. Problem with Orr though is some mobs run away and back, and a mob in combat getting near a mob not in combat will pull that mob into combat with them =( It’s what I really hated about bandits and krayt too.