Guild Wars 2

I’m pretty sure those same players would still get downed in berserker gear. You’re making the same mistake a lot of modern day gamers make. Gear is not the same as skill.

Darkobra.6439:

I’m pretty sure those same players would still get downed in berserker gear. You’re making the same mistake a lot of modern day gamers make. Gear is not the same as skill.

I’m getting downed as well.

I duo’ed a AC story with Dub last week. I felt like a noob. I don’t know any shortcuts and was downed because I wanted to follow him at his speed. I’m sure that if I run that duo again, I’ll be downed again, but it’ll be faster. I’m learning.

Players who stop learning are the bad ones. People who keep trying to actually become better are the good players.

Now you’re talking strategy. Tactics, shortcuts, experience. You can do that in any gear but now you’re addressing what really matters in a dungeon.

Guide people, give them the tactics and let them grow.

The gear is fine.

The content being designed solely around it isn’t fine.

Xenon.4537:

The gear is fine.

The content being designed solely around it isn’t fine.

looks around for content designed solely for berserker gear

>.> <.<

can’t find

Lilith Ajit.6173:

Xenon.4537:

The gear is fine.

The content being designed solely around it isn’t fine.

looks around for content designed solely for berserker gear

>.> <.<

can’t find

Open your eyes. Almost every dungeon boss can be stacked and burned down. They are just meat sacks with high health pools. It doesn’t matter if non-zerkers can kill them too. Zerker is and always will be the best way to clear that content unless Anet changes something.

Xenon.4537:

Lilith Ajit.6173:

Xenon.4537:

The gear is fine.

The content being designed solely around it isn’t fine.

looks around for content designed solely for berserker gear

>.> <.<

can’t find

Open your eyes. Almost every dungeon boss can be stacked and burned down. They are just meat sacks with high health pools. It doesn’t matter if non-zerkers can kill them too. Zerker is and always will be the best way to clear that content unless Anet changes something.

/thread

Dungeons should involve strategy, puzzles and not a little teamwork. Those are at the moment non-existent.

Lilith Ajit.6173:

Xenon.4537:

The gear is fine.

The content being designed solely around it isn’t fine.

looks around for content designed solely for berserker gear

>.> <.<

can’t find

While I do not entirely agree with him, there have been some instances where max DPS is rewarded and certain playstyles punished-namely bosses with timers. These, however, have not been all that common, and one cannot say that Dungeons were designed “only” for Berserker’s gear. Aiming for efficiency isn’t the only way to play GW2 (nor is the only standard of a “good player”), and thus Berserker’s is not really “required” to complete standard content.

Berserker’s gear is actually fine. Just don’t be a jerk to others whatever you prefer to use.

Rewarded and working is different than it being the only viable option.

If your problem with it is that it’s the best gear… that’s just silly because there will ALWAYS be a best option.

if the game was actually made for skilled players rather then spamallot player we would actually have some good gameplay, gear should be the second priority not the primary.

Xenon.4537:

Lilith Ajit.6173:

Xenon.4537:

The gear is fine.

The content being designed solely around it isn’t fine.

looks around for content designed solely for berserker gear

>.> <.<

can’t find

Open your eyes. Almost every dungeon boss can be stacked and burned down. They are just meat sacks with high health pools. It doesn’t matter if non-zerkers can kill them too. Zerker is and always will be the best way to clear that content unless Anet changes something.

I am not “zerk or die” but shouldn’t Berserker’s always be the more powerful option? It is “Berserker’s” after all. Perhaps you are complaining that Berserker’s is the most optimal, but that is a given-and then those guys and gals are also more prone to be downed if something goes awry, which can happen.

I of course want more stat combinations to be less irrelevant for PvE-one could sadly boil it all down to Berserker’s, which can be a problem IF seen as “the one, true way to play GW2 PvE”-but I mean no offense by disagreeing with you on that particular qualm you have.

Xenon.4537:

Lilith Ajit.6173:

Xenon.4537:

The gear is fine.

The content being designed solely around it isn’t fine.

looks around for content designed solely for berserker gear

>.> <.<

can’t find

Open your eyes. Almost every dungeon boss can be stacked and burned down. They are just meat sacks with high health pools. It doesn’t matter if non-zerkers can kill them too. Zerker is and always will be the best way to clear that content unless Anet changes something.

Are you saying there shouldn’t be a “best” gear option?

Should we all wallow in mediocrity?

Star Ace.5207:

Xenon.4537:

Lilith Ajit.6173:

Xenon.4537:

The gear is fine.

The content being designed solely around it isn’t fine.

looks around for content designed solely for berserker gear

>.> <.<

can’t find

Open your eyes. Almost every dungeon boss can be stacked and burned down. They are just meat sacks with high health pools. It doesn’t matter if non-zerkers can kill them too. Zerker is and always will be the best way to clear that content unless Anet changes something.

I am not “zerk or die” but shouldn’t Berserker’s always be the more powerful option? It is “Berserker’s” after all. Perhaps you are complaining that Berserker’s is the most optimal, but that is a given-and then those guys and gals are also more prone to be downed if something goes awry, which can happen.

I of course want more stat combinations to be less irrelevant for PvE-one could sadly boil it all down to Berserker’s, which can be a problem IF seen as “the one, true way to play GW2 PvE”-but I mean no offense by disagreeing with you on that particular qualm you have.

I’m not sure what you got out of my post that suggest I disapprove of berserkers gear… I clearly said the content is at fault. I’m all for people playing how they want. The problem is the overwhelming majority of content is most efficiently cleared with zerker builds. There is no good reason to play another way because non-zerker is always slower. Even if zerker groups wipe, they still clear content faster because they jump right back in and down it the next time.

If they want other builds and gear to be on equal footing, they need to design encounters where survival or crowd control are more important than DPS. If the boss involved a timed phase where you simply had to stay alive for 3 minutes, or CC deadly mobs, before the boss even became vulnerable to attack, then you might see clerics or something become important.

Right now the majority of content involves you dodging 1 or 2 important, telegraphed 1-shot attacks (that most full-tank builds might not even survive) and then you stack and DPS burn the boss as fast as possible. Zerkers can dodge and deal the most DPS so there’s no reason to roll anything else.

Keep in mind a lot of people are busy trying to earn their legendaries, ascended gear, etc. If you honestly plan on getting stuff like that in a reasonable time, you quickly lose patience for “slow and steady, play how i want” non-zerker groups. You have a limited amount of time to play in the day, and it takes X amount of hours to clear all the dungeon paths and get kitten done. I absolutely do not blame people for going with the meta. I do it myself.

maha.7902:

Xenon.4537:

Lilith Ajit.6173:

Xenon.4537:

The gear is fine.

The content being designed solely around it isn’t fine.

looks around for content designed solely for berserker gear

>.> <.<

can’t find

Open your eyes. Almost every dungeon boss can be stacked and burned down. They are just meat sacks with high health pools. It doesn’t matter if non-zerkers can kill them too. Zerker is and always will be the best way to clear that content unless Anet changes something.

Are you saying there shouldn’t be a “best” gear option?

Should we all wallow in mediocrity?

You guys need to take another look at my first post in this thread…

Xenon.4537:

maha.7902:

Xenon.4537:

Lilith Ajit.6173:

Xenon.4537:

The gear is fine.

The content being designed solely around it isn’t fine.

looks around for content designed solely for berserker gear

>.> <.<

can’t find

Open your eyes. Almost every dungeon boss can be stacked and burned down. They are just meat sacks with high health pools. It doesn’t matter if non-zerkers can kill them too. Zerker is and always will be the best way to clear that content unless Anet changes something.

Are you saying there shouldn’t be a “best” gear option?

Should we all wallow in mediocrity?

You guys need to take another look at my first post in this thread…

It’s not designed around berserker, berserker is just the most optimal. Dungeons are actually designed around people at-level in greens of whatever stat combination. Fractals are designed with exotics of any stat combination.

Xenon.4537:

Lilith Ajit.6173:

Xenon.4537:

The gear is fine.

The content being designed solely around it isn’t fine.

looks around for content designed solely for berserker gear

>.> <.<

can’t find

Open your eyes. Almost every dungeon boss can be stacked and burned down. They are just meat sacks with high health pools. It doesn’t matter if non-zerkers can kill them too. Zerker is and always will be the best way to clear that content unless Anet changes something.

You should open your eyes too.
Every dungeon can be afk pvt’d, people just refuse to use it.
Meanwhile THW and Teq is a middle ground, both pvt, zerker and condi has its uses in the whole encounter, but Teq is a structure itself, zerker is useless on it.

maha.7902:

Xenon.4537:

maha.7902:

Xenon.4537:

Lilith Ajit.6173:

Xenon.4537:

The gear is fine.

The content being designed solely around it isn’t fine.

looks around for content designed solely for berserker gear

>.> <.<

can’t find

Open your eyes. Almost every dungeon boss can be stacked and burned down. They are just meat sacks with high health pools. It doesn’t matter if non-zerkers can kill them too. Zerker is and always will be the best way to clear that content unless Anet changes something.

Are you saying there shouldn’t be a “best” gear option?

Should we all wallow in mediocrity?

You guys need to take another look at my first post in this thread…

It’s not designed around berserker, berserker is just the most optimal. Dungeons are actually designed around people at-level in greens of whatever stat combination. Fractals are designed with exotics of any stat combination.

Exactly this.

Like I said before there’s a difference between something working best and something working. All gears work. That’s the basic truth.

Lilith Ajit.6173:

maha.7902:

Xenon.4537:

maha.7902:

Xenon.4537:

Lilith Ajit.6173:

Xenon.4537:

The gear is fine.

The content being designed solely around it isn’t fine.

looks around for content designed solely for berserker gear

>.> <.<

can’t find

Open your eyes. Almost every dungeon boss can be stacked and burned down. They are just meat sacks with high health pools. It doesn’t matter if non-zerkers can kill them too. Zerker is and always will be the best way to clear that content unless Anet changes something.

Are you saying there shouldn’t be a “best” gear option?

Should we all wallow in mediocrity?

You guys need to take another look at my first post in this thread…

It’s not designed around berserker, berserker is just the most optimal. Dungeons are actually designed around people at-level in greens of whatever stat combination. Fractals are designed with exotics of any stat combination.

Exactly this.

Like I said before there’s a difference between something working best and something working. All gears work. That’s the basic truth.

ITT: people not reading what I post.

Yes you can do non-zerker.

Non-zerker is less efficient (hence why zerker is meta).

The reason why zerker is meta is because of the design of the content.

The content is too simple.

The content is stack and DPS.

The content was designed this way.

They designed it so that bosses only throw out 1 or 2 deadly attacks that can be dodged.

They designed bosses with high health pools that can be wedged into a corner, stacked and burned.

They might not have intended it, but this is what we got. Plain and simple.

So you guys are saying Anet didn’t sit down and say “Okay, how do we make Zerker meta?” Yes you’re right. They didn’t do that. Instead they sat down and designed something, and the best solution to their design happened to be the zerker meta.

So the content is designed, regardless of intention, to produce a zerker meta. Hence why we have a zerker meta.

Sirendor.1394:

Dungeons should involve strategy, puzzles and not a little teamwork. Those are at the moment non-existent.

Strategy: While I would like dungeons to be a bit less linear (like FoW or DOA) it’s hard to say that no strategy is required. If it wasn’t for dungeon guilds publishing guides and speed clear strategies most pugs would be (if they weren’t still) running around like headless chickens with no clue what to do. Don’t confused problems that are currently solved with being problems that never existed.

Puzzles: Puzzles are literally the worst part of every dungeon. There are a few reasons TA Aetherpath isn’t done very often, and the amount of puzzles is a lot of it. Lengthy puzzle sections are interesting the first time or two you do a dungeon. by the 25th time through, after they are thoroughly solved, they begin to resemble incredibly annoying time gates.

Teamwork: Please refer to the strategy comment. There is a vast difference in doing a dungeon like Caudecus Manor with a Guardian who knows when to use his reflects and a thief who knows when to stealth, and doing it with an uncoordinated team. In fact, the difference is so vast, I cannot reckon how someone could fail to see the difference unless they have never done the dungeon. Which doesn’t surprise me, since 99% of “Dungeon BHB QQ Threads” are written from the perspective of people who only do AC.

One of the (if not main) reason for mobs attack pattern is dodge.
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Dodge

Sure, active and passive defense help a lot too, but if they start to design encounters around that, you are screwed up heavily and encourages to use certain classes / gear / whatever and they become mandatory. And actually it happened, but its a natural thing when party size is only 5 and you have 8 classes and one of them has every possible defensive ability available in the game, meanwhile 2 has nothing unique available to a party.
But i mean you can defeat Lupi fine without reflects or attacking Teq in full zerker, its just harder.

ps: Someone quote Hrouda pls.

Yeah, Berserker is really overpowered right?

I bring my tanky guard into CoE because I constantly run the risk of the full zerk players dying and wiping…. it happens almost every time I go to pug it. I’d really like to bring my mesmer or warrior in there more instead but wanting to finish the dungeon in less than 2 hours kinda overrides that….

~edit~
^—more to do with players not knowing how to play than the quality of zerk

Xenon.4537:

Lilith Ajit.6173:

maha.7902:

Xenon.4537:

maha.7902:

Xenon.4537:

Lilith Ajit.6173:

Xenon.4537:

The gear is fine.

The content being designed solely around it isn’t fine.

looks around for content designed solely for berserker gear

>.> <.<

can’t find

Open your eyes. Almost every dungeon boss can be stacked and burned down. They are just meat sacks with high health pools. It doesn’t matter if non-zerkers can kill them too. Zerker is and always will be the best way to clear that content unless Anet changes something.

Are you saying there shouldn’t be a “best” gear option?

Should we all wallow in mediocrity?

You guys need to take another look at my first post in this thread…

It’s not designed around berserker, berserker is just the most optimal. Dungeons are actually designed around people at-level in greens of whatever stat combination. Fractals are designed with exotics of any stat combination.

Exactly this.

Like I said before there’s a difference between something working best and something working. All gears work. That’s the basic truth.

ITT: people not reading what I post.

Yes you can do non-zerker.

Non-zerker is less efficient (hence why zerker is meta).

The reason why zerker is meta is because of the design of the content.

The content is too simple.

The content is stack and DPS.

The content was designed this way.

They designed it so that bosses only throw out 1 or 2 deadly attacks that can be dodged.

They designed bosses with high health pools that can be wedged into a corner, stacked and burned.

They might not have intended it, but this is what we got. Plain and simple.

So you guys are saying Anet didn’t sit down and say “Okay, how do we make Zerker meta?” Yes you’re right. They didn’t do that. Instead they sat down and designed something, and the best solution to their design happened to be the zerker meta.

So the content is designed, regardless of intention, to produce a zerker meta. Hence why we have a zerker meta.

I just wanted to use bold letters, too.

Allaraina.8614:

I bring my tanky guard into CoE because I constantly run the risk of the full zerk players dying and wiping

So when they die your “tanky guard” can out DPS the healing of Alpha? Wow, you’re magic!

Allaraina.8614:

I bring my tanky guard into CoE because I constantly run the risk of the full zerk players dying and wiping…. it happens almost every time I go to pug it. I’d really like to bring my mesmer or warrior in there more instead but wanting to finish the dungeon in less than 2 hours kinda overrides that….

~edit~
^—more to do with players not knowing how to play than the quality of zerk

I used to have my hybrid guardian (zerker gear with AH build) that I brought for some dungeon for the same reason. But the thing is, the meta guardian give have a lot more surviability than any hybrid or tanky guardian. You can keep your party alive a lot longer with blind, aegis and reflect from the meta, than from vitality, toughness and self heal.

If you have difficulty getting good pugs, maybe you should find a guild that go in dungeon with you. I usually have at least 1-2 guildmates with me most of the time. So even if we have bad pugs, we can carry them if we need too. But usually, we kick them if they are really bad and continue on our own while the slot fill itself. We start the dungeon even if we are two, we are not waiting for pugs, they can join us during the path.

Allaraina.8614:

I bring my tanky guard into CoE because I constantly run the risk of the full zerk players dying and wiping…. it happens almost every time I go to pug it. I’d really like to bring my mesmer or warrior in there more instead but wanting to finish the dungeon in less than 2 hours kinda overrides that….

~edit~
^—more to do with players not knowing how to play than the quality of zerk

This Nemesis logic kills me. Pugs are bad, so i should be bad too. Whyyyyyy? ( ._.)

Lilith Ajit.6173:

looks around for content designed solely for berserker gear

>.> <.<

can’t find

Bosses with 1 hit KO = designed for zerker
Bosses with with slow strong attacks = designed for zerker
Bosses immune to condition (I’m looking at you Assault Knights) = designed for zerker
Bosses where you don’t have space to ress others = designed for zerker (as in, even with tank build you can’t tank while ressing others and you won’t have damage to kill the boss)

There are probably more examples, but I can’t think in others right now.
EDIT: I only mentioned bosses because there are no regular mob that requires skill to fight, so the faster you kill the best (AKA zerker)

Xenon.4537:

ITT: people not reading what I post.

Yes you can do non-zerker.

Non-zerker is less efficient (hence why zerker is meta).

The reason why zerker is meta is because of the design of the content.

The content is too simple.

The content is stack and DPS.

The content was designed this way.

They designed it so that bosses only throw out 1 or 2 deadly attacks that can be dodged.

They designed bosses with high health pools that can be wedged into a corner, stacked and burned.

They might not have intended it, but this is what we got. Plain and simple.

So you guys are saying Anet didn’t sit down and say “Okay, how do we make Zerker meta?” Yes you’re right. They didn’t do that. Instead they sat down and designed something, and the best solution to their design happened to be the zerker meta.

So the content is designed, regardless of intention, to produce a zerker meta. Hence why we have a zerker meta.

Xenon’s right on this one. The problem is in encounter design. Part of where we see the problem is that the devs, while they have released themselves from Trinity design, are still designing for it. Less so now than at launch, but here we are.

We still have huge monolithic monsters that lob one-hit KOs. Once in a while, that could be cool and scary and kinda epic, but when it’s nearly every single fight that’s dodge-or-die, it not only gets old, but it lends itself to optimization oriented around… dodge or die, so it’s a ‘kill before getting killed’ meta.
These same monoliths often don’t cleave, rather attacking (with excessive force) one player at a time, until they do their dodge-or-die mechanic.

What GW2 needs, not only to “break” the Zerker meta, but to be successful, is an encounter design team that understands their own combat system and how players act within it.

1. Make sure every player is rewarded for damage done in an event or dungeon, not just on the main boss. This is an important part of…
2. Make judicious use of smaller mobs (vets/elites) that interact with boss mechanics. Not just pests that harass the players during a complicated fight, but make the adds impact the fight. This also gives condition-heavy characters MUCH more to do in a fight, without impacting the 25-bleed cap (which should still be raised).

Example: If there’s a dodge-or-die mechanic, tie it in with an add. This gives players at least two options: deal with (interrupt, kill, kite) the add, or dodge the damage.

Right now, with monolith bosses as they are, it encourages stacking dungeon and “111111” world boss gameplay.

Xenon.4537:

ITT: people not reading what I post.

Yes you can do non-zerker.

Non-zerker is less efficient (hence why zerker is meta).

The reason why zerker is meta is because of the design of the content.

The content is too simple.

The content is stack and DPS.

The content was designed this way.

They designed it so that bosses only throw out 1 or 2 deadly attacks that can be dodged.

They designed bosses with high health pools that can be wedged into a corner, stacked and burned.

They might not have intended it, but this is what we got. Plain and simple.

So you guys are saying Anet didn’t sit down and say “Okay, how do we make Zerker meta?” Yes you’re right. They didn’t do that. Instead they sat down and designed something, and the best solution to their design happened to be the zerker meta.

So the content is designed, regardless of intention, to produce a zerker meta. Hence why we have a zerker meta.

Good players still wear berserker on solo runs where you don;t really “stack” explain that.

All games have a meta.

Oh and this: http://i.imgur.com/jJraP8Y.png

Belzebu.3912:

Bosses with 1 hit KO = designed for zerker
Bosses with with slow strong attacks = designed for zerker
Bosses immune to condition (I’m looking at you Assault Knights) = designed for zerker
Bosses where you don’t have space to ress others = designed for zerker (as in, even with tank build you can’t tank while ressing others and you won’t have damage to kill the boss)

There are probably more examples, but I can’t think in others right now.
EDIT: I only mentioned bosses because there are no regular mob that requires skill to fight, so the faster you kill the best (AKA zerker)

Play an action game, because obviously you haven;t.

Allaraina.8614:

I bring my tanky guard into CoE because I constantly run the risk of the full zerk players dying and wiping….

An optimal zerker party has no time to even get downed on Alpha. There’s one, maybe two dodges max to perform.

Also, if the fight is long and I get downed, I really prefer that you stay up and continue finishing the fight rather than rev me. This way the party still does 75-80% of the dmg rather than 50-60%.

The amount of misinformation start to rise up is insulting.

@Belzebu
Bosses with tankable hits = balanced for PVT
Bosses with with slow strong attacks = balanced for dodge
Bosses immune to condition (I’m looking at you Assault Knights) -> After phase changes boss get bonus damage after conditions = encourages build diversity
The last part is interesting, is there such a thing? Btw you can power ress a downed team mate in PVT with less fear to die. So again, false.
Actuall gameplay, watch it or leave the discussion. Thank you!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5-zKXILTkQo
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b2VhmwLwvrM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yngAS5W3Ogc

@Rauderi
See above.
But i agree with you that events should somehow recognize other thins than just damage.
You mean more boss with adds?

@Bread
Thats the point. Every game has a meta, but somehow here its unacceptable, due to some misunderstood sentence by a dev.

@Fror
Exactly. Allaraina has the same problem as most of us. People that claim they are “experienced zerkers” they are often none of them and it cause a lot of problems, especially if 1 member is already drag the group down with lower damage potential.

Lilith Ajit.6173:

Xenon.4537:

The gear is fine.

The content being designed solely around it isn’t fine.

looks around for content designed solely for berserker gear

>.> <.<

can’t find

Come on lol… berserker gear is promoted because dungeons can be completed by stack and dps. The problem is definitely not the gear, but it definitely IS the content in the dungeon being too mind-numbing stupid.

For all those arguing otherwise… learn to think and stop being a zombie.

Sirendor.1394:

Lilith Ajit.6173:

Xenon.4537:

The gear is fine.

The content being designed solely around it isn’t fine.

looks around for content designed solely for berserker gear

>.> <.<

can’t find

Come on lol… berserker gear is promoted because dungeons can be completed by stack and dps. The problem is definitely not the gear, but it definitely IS the content in the dungeon being too mind-numbing stupid.

For all those arguing otherwise… learn to think and stop being a zombie.

Bro. Pls. Watch the cleric group versus lupi with dodge unbound. Content is designed in a way that everyone can complete. It doesn’t matter how much you argue this. No one is being a zombie. It’s the cold hard facts. I can complete any dungeon with a group of Settlers. I can complete it quicker with berserkers, but the berserkers MUST know how to dodge else it will take forever due to wiping. Risk/reward. This is a problem because the dungeons are static while we’ve all been playing then for 1.5 years so we know how to run them. New players struggle still. Please learn to logic.

I still don’t agree that there is a problem. Ya, its would be nice if you add more diversity to the gear that matter, making conditions on par with direct damage for PvE, making content harder with better AI.

Everybody wants that. But that won’t change the fact that there will always be meta and there will always be people that hate the very fact that a meta exist. Even if anet change all that, the situation will be different but we will have the SAME exact discussion. People will find the best way to play the game, this will be discuss for a while on the forums until the majority of the players find that some of the best way to play the game and they will call that the new meta. People will start to ask other to play like that because its the best and other people will complain that they can’t play how they want because of the stupid meta. Does the game need improvements? Yeah a lot, like every single game in the history. But there is not a big broken mechanics in the game that need to be fix and that will change everything.

@Dalanor

Stray thought: The condition-immune thing was unforgivable, even if it lead to phase 2 where conditions were desirable. The fact that Defiant exists as it does is still insufficient, and now the Boss Blitz bosses have a NEW stack of immunities. It’s insulting.

As for how to do boss design for the GW2 set, Subject 6 in the Thaumanova fractal is a decent step. The adds (which come from damaging the boss) need to be managed during its rest phase, or they heal the boss. Also during that rest phase, if players continue dps, the boss unloads a huge explosion. A little simplistic, but a serviceable example.

The Destiny’s Edge clone fight is also a decent example (though it needs some tuning). Murder Eir and Zojja (so you don’t die or get CC’d to death), CC dodge Logan and Rytlock until it’s safe to dps, etc. Then watch out for the actual boss (is it Faolin? I can’t remember..) because she might heal them. That one’s not so much an ‘add’ fight as it is one that starts off demanding good CC.

These bosses with slow, non-cleaving attacks and a few “gotcha” attacks are irritating and uninteresting. The Boss Blitz set are mostly guilty of the same. Most of the complications are on the boss itself, excluding Boom Boom’s healing turret and the stupid bird seed on the ogre.

And of course #raisebleedingcapto100
I will not let that one go for map-wide bosses. =P

Good post OP.

When people complain about zerker gear, i like to tell the story of my Ele that started running dungeons in PVT gear. As i got more comfortable in my play and getting by with dodge rolls and utility skills, i started shedding pieces of my PVT and replacing them with zerker, until one day i found myself in full zerker gear.

I don’t see it as a “zerker playstyle,” but more simply a natural progression of getting more skilled with my toon.

Of course, this only works in PvE. Go to WvW and you’ll see all sorts of gear combinations that work way better than zerker, depending on the situation.

Lilith Ajit.6173:

Bro. Pls. Watch the cleric group versus lupi with dodge unbound. Content is designed in a way that everyone can complete. It doesn’t matter how much you argue this. No one is being a zombie. It’s the cold hard facts. I can complete any dungeon with a group of Settlers. I can complete it quicker with berserkers, but the berserkers MUST know how to dodge else it will take forever due to wiping. Risk/reward. This is a problem because the dungeons are static while we’ve all been playing then for 1.5 years so we know how to run them. New players struggle still. Please learn to logic.

Fixed that for you:

Bro. Pls. Watch the zerker group versus queen spider with no dodging required. Content is designed in a way that everyone can complete it by stacking and dpsing. It doesn’t matter how much you argue this. No one is being more a zombie than you. It’s the cold hard facts. I can complete any dungeon with a group of Berserkers. I can complete it slower with other stats, but the berserkers MUST know how to stack else it will take forever due to falling asleep. No risk/huge reward. This is a problem because the dungeons are bad design while we’ve all been stacking them for 1.5 years so we know how to stack. New players struggle still. Please learn to logic.

SEE WHAT I DID THERE?

Mine makes more sense than yours.

LOL I knew it was only a matter of time before the dungeon PHIW knowledgables decided to use spider queen. /thread

Ps. L2P and do other dungeons before spouting your obvious ignorance on the entire topic

@Rauderi
I would say THW is the same. Meanwhile it can be critted first, at the burst phase you can, so it means if everybody wears PVT or other non-berserker equipment (just an example) than at the most crucial moment you basically lost DPS.
Defiant is great actually. It promotes smart (!) and coordinated gameplay, while punishes bad spamming, meanwhile prevents stunlocking in huge events.
I dont know why you feel offended, when defiant would be the same and excluding the centaur every boss was stationary. And you couldnt except that a pug zerg will max melee it while you soft cc it … So its better this way, at least people need to handle less game mechanics. Sadly, they still fail.
I get what you mean, but that boss is trivialized by CC. You can jump on it and hit while it pops the shield, then you just fear it away and burn it down. A guardian can keep away ads with Hammer#5 and Sanctuary. Sub 30s fight. It only punishis not so optimal groups but hey, those struggle everywhere compared to better groups. Trust me, those “speed run” parties you see on regular lfg are nothing to really good groups.
I soloed on zerker ele without knowing what to do. Oo Just loss and aoe the skritt out of them.
If you do it to speed up the attacking pattern, you just promote passive gameplay with immortal PVT builds and it will become the meta. How it is good for anyone to literally just go there, press 1 and go afk for a few minutes? See above videos.
The bleedcap is still a technical limitation issue and im not sure it would solve everything.

@Sirendor
So you range exploit the content? Or please show me how you stack and win on Bloomy, Archy, Mossman, CoE destroyer etc.

Dalanor.5387:

So you range exploit the content? Or please show me how you stack and win on Bloomy, Archy, Mossman, CoE destroyer etc.

CoE destroyer should be ranged by 2 rangers with 1500 range on each side of the pit while the 3 others should activate the lasers. Amirite?

15 minutes kill ftw!

How the Bingo spreads far beyond :O

Sirendor.1394:

Lilith Ajit.6173:

Bro. Pls. Watch the cleric group versus lupi with dodge unbound. Content is designed in a way that everyone can complete. It doesn’t matter how much you argue this. No one is being a zombie. It’s the cold hard facts. I can complete any dungeon with a group of Settlers. I can complete it quicker with berserkers, but the berserkers MUST know how to dodge else it will take forever due to wiping. Risk/reward. This is a problem because the dungeons are static while we’ve all been playing then for 1.5 years so we know how to run them. New players struggle still. Please learn to logic.

Fixed that for you:

Bro. Pls. Watch the zerker group versus queen spider with no dodging required. Content is designed in a way that everyone can complete it by stacking and dpsing. It doesn’t matter how much you argue this. No one is being more a zombie than you. It’s the cold hard facts. I can complete any dungeon with a group of Berserkers. I can complete it slower with other stats, but the berserkers MUST know how to stack else it will take forever due to falling asleep. No risk/huge reward. This is a problem because the dungeons are bad design while we’ve all been stacking them for 1.5 years so we know how to stack. New players struggle still. Please learn to logic.

SEE WHAT I DID THERE?

Mine makes more sense than yours.

How hard, exactly, should the first boss of the first dungeon be?

Tree.3916:

Sirendor.1394:

Lilith Ajit.6173:

Bro. Pls. Watch the cleric group versus lupi with dodge unbound. Content is designed in a way that everyone can complete. It doesn’t matter how much you argue this. No one is being a zombie. It’s the cold hard facts. I can complete any dungeon with a group of Settlers. I can complete it quicker with berserkers, but the berserkers MUST know how to dodge else it will take forever due to wiping. Risk/reward. This is a problem because the dungeons are static while we’ve all been playing then for 1.5 years so we know how to run them. New players struggle still. Please learn to logic.

Fixed that for you:

Bro. Pls. Watch the zerker group versus queen spider with no dodging required. Content is designed in a way that everyone can complete it by stacking and dpsing. It doesn’t matter how much you argue this. No one is being more a zombie than you. It’s the cold hard facts. I can complete any dungeon with a group of Berserkers. I can complete it slower with other stats, but the berserkers MUST know how to stack else it will take forever due to falling asleep. No risk/huge reward. This is a problem because the dungeons are bad design while we’ve all been stacking them for 1.5 years so we know how to stack. New players struggle still. Please learn to logic.

SEE WHAT I DID THERE?

Mine makes more sense than yours.

How hard, exactly, should the first boss of the first dungeon be?

Well to him it’s the first and last dungeon he’s ever done apparently.

@ Sirendor. Stacking is only one strategy use in dungeon. Get rid of stacking, ALL OF STACKING, and the situation is exactly the same as today. I stack nothing when I do Arah and I was playing meta way before I started to stack bosses. Get rid of stacking and it won’t change anything. Like they nerfed zerker and that don’t change anything. They could nerf to the groud zerk and the new meta could be condition and the situation will still be the same.

Sirendor.1394:

Please learn to logic.

You should too, as a matter of fact also please learn to diversify genres for video games.

Thaddeus.4891:

@ Sirendor. Stacking is only one strategy use in dungeon. Get rid of stacking, ALL OF STACKING, and the situation is exactly the same as today. I stack nothing when I do Arah and I was playing meta way before I started to stack bosses. Get rid of stacking and it won’t change anything. Like they nerfed zerker and that don’t change anything. They could nerf to the groud zerk and the new meta could be condition and the situation will still be the same.

In answer I’d like to quote what I said earlier in the thread. I do not think that “removing stacking” is the solution, I do think bringing proper mechanisms into the dungeons would solve it.

1:

Dungeons should involve strategy, puzzles and not a little teamwork. Those are at the moment non-existent.

2:

The problem is definitely not the gear, but it definitely IS the content in the dungeon being too mind-numbing stupid.

Lilith Ajit.6173:

Well to him it’s the first and last dungeon he’s ever done apparently.

Sorry, but how do you know how many dungeon runs I have done? I used to run about 10 different dungeon paths a day. I played every path in the game and from what I have seen it all came down to one thing: lure the boss in a favorable spot, dodge when it tries to hit you, spam your skills.

Dungeons in this game are like childrens toys. Anet was apparently so concerned with not scaring casuals and people without a brain away that they made bosses the way they are. Some bosses may have a little extra mechanisms, but it’s still a letdown.

If you like to prove your point by playing ad hominem, you are free to do so, but I surely won’t take your serious for doing it.

if you’re spamming skills then you clearly have never done a challenging dungeon or high level fractals, you’ll get chewed out if you just smash random weapon skills and have random utilities on.

maha.7902:

if you’re spamming skills then you clearly have never done a challenging dungeon or high level fractals, you’ll get chewed out if you just smash random weapon skills and have random utilities on.

^^ this

Yep.

Waiting for this topic to get sent into the “trashcan” subforum.

Let’s take bets!
over or under 36 hours from OP?