Guild Wars 2

Inculpatus cedo.9234:

Well, new Profession balance information is coming this Friday, and they are taking feedback on those proposed changes, and will use it to adjust them….so, there’s that. =)

Oh? Where did you hear this?

Korossive.7085:

Hey there’s also the possibility Colin woke up one day, saw box-sales not going anywhere and gems are neglectable and decided to close shop. “John / Gaile, you two stall time while we put a few nails in the coffin, tell them we can’t say sh— even though we’d love to, should be enough. Art, you guys put some new minis, hell anything you want, don’t care. Programmers – you’re all fired. Lore, you guys, … lore? oh I forgot. So guys its been a good run but I have a private jet to take me to my yacht, see were sailing to the Bahamas where I’ma swing it again lol, so turn the lights off, and keep some servers up so they wont feel anything ADIOS SUCKERS!!!”

… did I go too far? o_o

It does feel like ArenaNet closed up shop. It’s been over two years without a substantial content release. No one can argue the lack of excitement coming from ArenaNet in regards to the future of Guild Wars 2. It’s telling of where the company is now. Maybe there’s some underlying issues at homebase which has affected the end product. Even the most naive of players should now be aware there’s something wrong. Going two years without a major infusion of PvE content has rendered the game useless IMO.

Recently WoW has released their current subscriber base figure which shows a marked increase. I can say from personal experience many new recruits in guilds I used to manage came directly from WoW. Who wants the guess the percent of those returning players are from GW2?

Gaile Gray.6029:

I think this post may be a valuable read: Mike O’Brien on Communication.

I take on board some well-expressed comments here. Quite honestly, I’m not sure how it would work to say “Yes, we’re aware of XYZ.” Those who say “We just want to know you’re aware” are terrific. But we all know that there are others for whom that wouldn’t be satisfactory. “We want to know you’re aware and we want to know what you’re going to do about it” can even become "We want to know you’re aware, we want to know what you’re going to do about it or [insert something here, from “I’m taking a break” to “I’ll never buy another gem,” to “I’m encouraging my entire gazillion-member guild to jump to Game Z].”

Please understand I’m not dismissing the desire for the first level of info, not at all! But can you see how the outcome can be unpredictable and how, no matter the question or request, there is no perfect answer? Further, can you see how “We’re aware of this and we plan to [whatever]” can become “Ok, you said you were aware of it three days ago, where’s the fix?”

I’m sort of writing to think, but I’d like to understand what truly reaches the point of “I’d like more info, but I’m satisfied with what you’ve been able to tell us right now.” Can you give me a few examples, where players would really like to know everything, but where there is a level of disclosure that meets the basic info request?

This was the single most exciting article thus far:

https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/looking-ahead-guild-wars-2-in-2013/

Each feature lasted no more than two paragraphs. The release gave players enough information on what they can expect the end result to be without divulging specifics.

I would be interested in the priority ranking Anet has. What are their top priorities currently?

It would have probably been less toxic if they had announced that their top priority is the new player experience… months ago. We players would have also had the chance to give suggestions, maybe a CDI on this topic… We would have known what to expect with the next feature patch.

If they are currently focussing on Guild Halls, Raids and GvG it’s exactly the way I imagine… because those CDIs are happening currently (and will happen soon) and devs can collect a lot of our ideas and things they don’t like in those CDIs.

Anet could say: it’s very likely that you will see one of the 3 topics currently talked about in the CDIs adressed in our next 2 feature-patches. Other top priorities are X, Y and Z and these might take the place if our schedule shifts. We will keep you informed about our priority shifts and the reasons about those.

Considering their released information in the past months, they are very much focusing on PvP and WvW at the moment. Most of the news have been about changes to PvP side of the game or tournaments and such.

Those CDI’s are nice, but the effect from them will be seen in later part of next year. They take ideas now and then start to think what they can do and how. It will not be coming in the next few months.

I really would like to have had those new traits and skills they told us they are working on in summer 2013, but things change. Just give us information even if it later then changes. Then you give us information about that change. This is all about information.

Actually I believe that CDIs are just examples of what should not be done: they are given ideas, and either they don’t care about them and don’t implement, or twist them sooo hard the result is far away from the expectations.

That’s how I see it: they live in a bubble and just get key words of our feedback, and they worked based on what they ear rather than on what they understand.
“It would be good to have some traits revamped, maybe a bit like GW1 skills hunt”, what they ear “It would be good to have … traits … hunt”, bam we’ve got that awful trait revamp!

Too bad they don’t talk about things that are worked on, because I assume we could help improve them. Instead, they just remain silent because “nothing is off the table”, they release half broken things (oooh sweet Chinese code copied and pasted that totally effed up the gaming experience for some people) and then go “yeah yeah we’re fixing that”, which is actually, translated to English, “deal with it, it’s perfect”.

Most of us rage when they don’t release what they said they would, or when they remain silent. But I do assume that most people wouldn’t rage if we knew that problems happened. After all, many want guild capes, and they said “it’s being worked on during the devs’ free time, and it’s really hard to implement”, and except for a few demands, nobody’s crying over that, because we know what’s the state of the development.

Unfortunately, some constructive criticisms do not reach ANet’s ears. I agree that being criticized is not a bowl of sugar, but hey, if the job isn’t done correctly, it’s up to the customer to make themselves heard. What if I handed in mistranslated books and said “nah it’s just as it should be”? I wouldn’t stay for long on the translating market.

Dear ANet, keep in mind: we’ve had faith in your for nearly 10 years, and these last two years are really hard for us to cope with the slow destruction of keystones of the game. We don’t cry and rage for the sake of it, we just love the game so much we don’t want to see it become a pale copy of other works. By willing to make GW2 too different, you didn’t make it unique, and you certainly didn’t make it a king in the industry, even though it could have ruled the whole MMO world.

Vix.6730:

This was the single most exciting article thus far:

https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/looking-ahead-guild-wars-2-in-2013/

Each feature lasted no more than two paragraphs. The release gave players enough information on what they can expect the end result to be without divulging specifics.

Yes it was and I would really like to have more of this kind.

But after that they created their “no such annoucements anymore” policy, maybe as an excuse to not tell us, that some of the mentionend things did not come because the ressources were needed for the China launch.

And when A-Net now does do annoucements there is a lot of exaggeration like the “big changes comming to commander system” when it is merely only a price change and some new colors and even little things are described as big things with a lot of empty words. Its like they want to make “big announcements” but have not enough things finished to announce.

I do not think, thats good.

Greetings.

Palador.2170:

Inculpatus cedo.9234:

Well, new Profession balance information is coming this Friday, and they are taking feedback on those proposed changes, and will use it to adjust them….so, there’s that. =)

Oh? Where did you hear this?

On the official blog.

https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/ready-up-23-updates-on-balance-skyhammer-the-world-tournament-series-and-the-wvw-fall-tournament/

Yet another great example as to why there is no point of them being more transparent, seeing as those that demands it the most doesn’t even bother looking up the available information.

That was posted yesterday and i bet u not many had the time to join specially at that hour. Many are just now starting to see it.

That is not a great example in any way shape or form considering the age of that news which is several hours. If it were several days old yes it would be an example that a portion of the people don’t fallow streams and are not informed.

Not a good example.

lordkrall.7241:

Palador.2170:

Inculpatus cedo.9234:

Well, new Profession balance information is coming this Friday, and they are taking feedback on those proposed changes, and will use it to adjust them….so, there’s that. =)

Oh? Where did you hear this?

On the official blog.

https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/ready-up-23-updates-on-balance-skyhammer-the-world-tournament-series-and-the-wvw-fall-tournament/

Yet another great example as to why there is no point of them being more transparent, seeing as those that demands it the most doesn’t even bother looking up the available information.

You’re trying to say people didn’t pay attention to a stream that hasn’t even occurred yet. Seriously?

NewTrain.7549:

You’re trying to say people didn’t pay attention to a stream that hasn’t even occurred yet. Seriously?

No, I am trying to say that people complain about lack of information, when there is fully available information on the official site. The stream itself is quite irrelevant to the post I quoted, since he wanted a source for upcoming balance changes, which is quite clearly stated in the post I linked.

I’ve lost interest in RU and PoI a long time ago, and maybe many others have: they don’t reveal anything. Fact is, most of these shows become less and less relevant, just grovelling, private jokes, and thanks to praises they find on social media.

lordkrall.7241:

NewTrain.7549:

You’re trying to say people didn’t pay attention to a stream that hasn’t even occurred yet. Seriously?

No, I am trying to say that people complain about lack of information, when there is fully available information on the official site. The stream itself is quite irrelevant to the post I quoted, since he wanted a source for upcoming balance changes, which is quite clearly stated in the post I linked.

Yeah, a post that occurred yesterday advertising a stream for today. It wasn’t a headline for balance changes. Trying to berate him for “not paying attention” to that is incredibly petty. It’s also pretty disingenuous to try use it as an example of the player base ignoring information from ANet.

Most of their streams are about things that already happened, things they think they did well but most are not happy with, and 1-2 extremely vague words about what has a chance to come in the future.

Long story short, their streams are filled with mostly useless info, that someone who actively plays the game already knows and doesn’t need to be told again.

Ya know, I was thinking about this a bit and keep coming back to the same spot. I (and others) get out the torches and Storm the Castle shouting “They owe us < Insert here > because…” and I kinda get stuck. Then I noticed "What was the Quid Pro Quo? Uh… I give you $60 for a couple of gig of binaries and game server access. “But but I have an emotional investment in this!” Well, that’s on me. Yeah, they could do better than have two random devs kinda smirk and say SAB is on the shelf via some weird web interview. As an aside, that was a really really bad way to let that news out and I don’t even like SAB. But, life is hard, wear a helmet.

The truth is Anet filled the agreement. I got my $60 bucks worth.

I am kinda surprised that Anet has let this thread discuss areas clearly outside their comfort zone without repercussion. I’m pretty sure no one has been banned or even had posts taken down. In a way that’s a significant step towards a more honest even visceral form of communication. Although I notice Gaile hasn’t posted in the last few pages I’d guess the thread is getting read at some level.

So, it’s settled: What we’ve got is what we have. Smile and be as happy as you can.

After all, we make our own fun…

I’d love to see Anet release a 5 year plan (or something similar to that) going into specifics on what they are working on.

The only reason I can see why they wouldn’t is because:
1.) They don’t want criticism (b/c the iteration process changes the ideas so much)
2.) They don’t have long term goals.
3.) They know their goals are going to be unpopular or insufficient.

MFoy.3284:

Ya know, I was thinking about this a bit and keep coming back to the same spot. I (and others) get out the torches and Storm the Castle shouting “They owe us < Insert here > because…” and I kinda get stuck. Then I noticed "What was the Quid Pro Quo? Uh… I give you $60 for a couple of gig of binaries and game server access. “But but I have an emotional investment in this!” Well, that’s on me. Yeah, they could do better than have two random devs kinda smirk and say SAB is on the shelf via some weird web interview. As an aside, that was a really really bad way to let that news out and I don’t even like SAB. But, life is hard, wear a helmet.

[…]

So, it’s settled: What we’ve got is what we have. Smile and be as happy as you can.

Simple point, ANet wouldn’t have to hide in shadows if people could be civil. There’s even posts in the sticky about how to be heard by the dev team. They amount to:

Don’t be a [bad word normally filtered by “kitten”].

And I kinda like “Smile and be as happy as you can.” That’s a good way to be.

MFoy.3284:

Ya know, I was thinking about this a bit and keep coming back to the same spot. I (and others) get out the torches and Storm the Castle shouting “They owe us < Insert here > because…” and I kinda get stuck. Then I noticed "What was the Quid Pro Quo? Uh… I give you $60 for a couple of gig of binaries and game server access. “But but I have an emotional investment in this!” Well, that’s on me. Yeah, they could do better than have two random devs kinda smirk and say SAB is on the shelf via some weird web interview. As an aside, that was a really really bad way to let that news out and I don’t even like SAB. But, life is hard, wear a helmet.

The truth is Anet filled the agreement. I got my $60 bucks worth.

I am kinda surprised that Anet has let this thread discuss areas clearly outside their comfort zone without repercussion. I’m pretty sure no one has be banned or even had posts taken down. In a way that’s a significant step towards a more honest even visceral form of communication.

This is an argument worth a thought.

Yes we received the 60$ worth of content, and be done with it. Goodbye.

But then, the product was marketed as a community of players and world, with evolving dynamics and developments. To sell, the company had spent much resources on hype building, this is how they chose to market it to us.

Lets have us an example: You can see Ree Soesbee here bellow promising you that the village you just rescued will stay rescued and remember you. Now we both know after 2 years that it’s BS. Here the players come back to the company and request a redesign, where the response is "were listening, were debating, were … Soon™ ".
But as we know, Soon™ is lawyer for never.

Lets forget for now the no-grind promise (“I swung a sword, hehe I swung it again”), dynamic events will remember you, horizontal progression (and then ascended gear), your choices and background affect the world (remember noble/commoner/…?), fun is in the center (remember Halloween 2013?), and cherry on top is the overabuse of the word Excited on communications. Are you excited?

Are we the bad people to want the hype and promises? Hmm.

So if its back to the original 60$ + goodbye, then I’ll never return to another ArenaNet product. I hope it isn’t, despite Gaile’s/John’s/Whoever’s fluff postings with no answers.

Bonus:

Although I notice Gaile hasn’t posted in the last few pages I’d guess the thread is getting read at some level.

You know the phrase on assumption?

Rauderi.8706:

MFoy.3284:

Ya know, I was thinking about this a bit and keep coming back to the same spot. I (and others) get out the torches and Storm the Castle shouting “They owe us < Insert here > because…” and I kinda get stuck. Then I noticed "What was the Quid Pro Quo? Uh… I give you $60 for a couple of gig of binaries and game server access. “But but I have an emotional investment in this!” Well, that’s on me. Yeah, they could do better than have two random devs kinda smirk and say SAB is on the shelf via some weird web interview. As an aside, that was a really really bad way to let that news out and I don’t even like SAB. But, life is hard, wear a helmet.

[…]

So, it’s settled: What we’ve got is what we have. Smile and be as happy as you can.

Simple point, ANet wouldn’t have to hide in shadows if people could be civil. There’s even posts in the sticky about how to be heard by the dev team. They amount to:

Don’t be a [bad word normally filtered by “kitten”].

And I kinda like “Smile and be as happy as you can.” That’s a good way to be.

The both of you have good points. Notwithstanding the validity of other’s points and complaints, all too often – though not always – they’re delivered in a hectoring, whining tone that really grates on one’s nerves. I sometimes wonder if one reason for ANet’s representatives being so often silent on these threads is because they’re working hard to resist the temptation to snap or snarl back. I also wonder if ANet may not have made a mistake in the first place in promising transparency when their own policies turned out to make such transparency impossible – in other words, to write a check that they were then unable to cash. This isn’t to defend their manifold failures in communicating with the gamer community, but to suggest that they would have done better to say up front, two years ago, that they were going to be seriously limited in how much they were going to be able to reveal about upcoming game development and thenceforth to avoid statements that raised people’s hopes unneccessarily. If they had done that, I submit that a lot of the angst we’re now seeing here wouldn’t exist.

No torches? But how else do I get my Torch Master achievement?!

Oh, by the way, still wishing you folks could organize better, but that’s just been my perennial complaint – it seems from this side to be very haphazard. Hopefully it can smooth out over time.

I want cookies now.

Thanks a lot, Gaile!
/cry

Nah, I’m kiddin’. =P Great to have such a pleasant (and apparently brave) staffer on the forums.

I do hope my messages aren’t among the ones that need to be pruned. I try to keep things on an even keel,, civil and understanding, even though I am impassioned by nature.

But the company’s policy is unacceptable, it is untenable in the long run, and it is directly responsible for a great deal of player ennui.

The problem is no longer the level or amount of communication now Gaile. You are correct in saying that improvements have been made and any right minded individual can see that from you and your team.

It just boils down to the roadmap again. Where are we going? We simply have no real inkling and it really is quite a unique situation for an MMO to be in. I read Mike’s post – it didn’t really address this particular problem, even if visible and definite improvements have been made elsewhere.

Suggestions have been made ofc;

- email forthcoming events and updates
- regular GD blogs
- return of the preview trailers/info (no preview of next season 2 or Halloween yet, despite eager clamourings)
- Something more substantial than a vague zone portal in the homepage for a teaser

I’m not saying these are the answers, but they seem valid suggestions from across this thread. Many just want something to get excited about going forward about this great game. It’s not really a big demand from the community in my view

Mike said:

when we’re not currently working on something, it’s because we’re working on something else instead that we think is more important for the game and community.

would it be against the policy to talk about what you think is important for the game and the community? Your priorities?

I mean, even if there may be some cancelled development, we could be sure that it’s still important for Anet and that they are probably working on it.

But that is just the issue.

When they release a road-map and something is changed/delayed the amount of rage and hate here is extreme. Because people see a road-map as a set in stone absolute promise kind of thing.

Gaile, know that at least to me, you are a tremendous asset and I look forward to you having a role that continues to grow. Not everyone can do what you do, I know I couldn’t.

That said, in the immediate sense, getting somebody to talk or post about Mad Kings Day is really overdue. Today we saw leaks from a preview of the Chinese client hit Reddit. So it’s definitely true that we are exclusively being left in the dark at this point.

lordkrall.7241:

But that is just the issue.

When they release a road-map and something is changed/delayed the amount of rage and hate here is extreme. Because people see a road-map as a set in stone absolute promise kind of thing.

Yeah makes you wonder how other game companies do it… mind blowing.

Here is where I see the disconnect.

The direction of the game has obviously changed in the past 6-8 months. The living story moved from the temporary open world model to a more permanent, but primarily instanced, one. At this point, I think its safe to say that many of the things that were part of S1 will not be part of S2. Dungeons/ 5-man content/minigames/etc seem to no longer be part of the living story model.

Just as significantly, they seem to have moved from a twice a month to a much longer interval release schedule.

It also seems that a few plans were either significantly postponed or scrapped entirely. In early 2013, they talked about the unlocking of new traits and skills being the centerpiece of character progression, which we have yet to see implemented (more than a year later). Did they change their mind about this? Is it still planned? If not, what is the core philosophy behind character progression? I dont think its unfair of us to wonder about this a year after the discussion. Same with precursor acquisition outside of the trading post and the proposed revamp to dungeons.

These major shifts came with very little discussion or explanation from the developers. This left alot of players wondering “what will the game play like 3/6/12 months from now?” (something we werent asking ourselves in S1).

The only reason we are asking about these things is, quite simply, because ArenaNet started the conversations and, then, seemed to go dark – both in terms of game releases and in discussions with players.

I think ArenaNet could alleviate alot of the criticism and concern by doing two things as openly and honestly as possible -

1. Give us an update on the 2013 thread (https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/looking-ahead-guild-wars-2-in-2013/), even if its as simple as “yes, were still planning to implement the progression model (or whatever aspect they are talking about), but it is taking longer than expected,” or “we decided to go a different route because we couldn’t make that model fit with our plans for the game.” It’s as simple as that.

2. Talk just a little bit – big picture – about how they want the game to play and grow in the foreseeable future in terms of living story, dungeons, sPvP and WvW. I realize this one is a little harder, but silence breeds assumptions – and usually not positive assumptions. At this point, anything you say is going to be better than the continued silence on particular topics.

lordkrall.7241:

But that is just the issue.

When they release a road-map and something is changed/delayed the amount of rage and hate here is extreme. Because people see a road-map as a set in stone absolute promise kind of thing.

Which pales in comparison to the amount of ire and disappointment when we are left with absolutely nothing at all. Give everyone here a reason to want to stay, or something to look forward to going forward, that has pretty much disappeared, heck even the Chinese site got the Halloween breakdown.
They will continue to hold things so close to the chest that when they decide to open up about it nothing will meet expectations because the information dry spell will have been far too long, everyone will be expecting the moon.

To be honest at this point for me, anything less than a full blown expansion with large chunks of new land and new classes or races will be completely underwhelming, and I’m certain I’m not alone on that. I’m not saying I expect that tomorrow but I expect the announcement soon enough because frankly I’m bored to tears and have been for two months now. Certainly I can take a break and I have for the most part but I love the game and I hoped for so much more, shame on me I guess.

The level that the communication is coming from is a big part of the perceived problem. Mike Obrien needs to make his presence felt in the Forums on a regular basis by using the Communications team as a mouthpiece, or personally with a red post.
Allowing developers that are honed in their particular area of the game to wax poetic on ideas and thoughts is one thing, having the person in charge make a comment with reasoning and showing the over arching thought process on a continual basis is the key to not creating problems within the forums.
Case in point: Guild Hall CDI. There have been some clear and concise discussions on the topic within that forum post. There have also been things that have been taken by posters as absolute necessary requirements for the game players to have. If one of those items is torpedoed by anyone higher than the participants from Anet involved in the CDI, it will torpedo any trust gained by the participant in the exchange of ideas if there is no return or feedback from the likes of O’Brien or the team assigned to handle communications.
The Communication team needs to have in depth knowledge of every facet of Anet’s thought process and Studio direction to be able to relate that in a concise and knowledgeable way within every forum thread that any member of the development team is involved in. There should be Communication team involvement in every thread that any developer is involved in, to monitor feedback, institute responses where needed, and to direct the conversation in a way that benefits the brand of GW2, the developers reputation, and the consumers perception of the communication on the whole, and on the individual postings.
This would most assuredly be the answer to the Bug forum being bombarded by angry consumers asking when the developers are going to acknowledge any given bug. It happens very rarely, and oft times it takes more than a month until follow is received, sometimes follow up never occurs. If there was one person to sort, log, and comment on all reported bugs and then follow up on a continual basis, this thorn in the side of the community would simply disappear.
I would implore the Communications team to play like I play, fierce and committed.

lordkrall.7241:

But that is just the issue.

When they release a road-map and something is changed/delayed the amount of rage and hate here is extreme. Because people see a road-map as a set in stone absolute promise kind of thing.

That is not really true. Granted, the people may be disappointed (and of course there are people that are angry at anything), but in cases i have seen so far the most anger came not from the change itself, but rather from the fact that the people didn’t really know what was going on.
Things like precursor crafting? There are people that rage about it because they really care about the matter, of course, but those are not the only (or even main) reasons behind pitchforks and torches. Lot of people are angry not about the delays, but because they don’t really know what Anet really thinks about the issue – is it because the problem is just too complicated? Is it because Anet doesn’t consider it that important, and thus it doesn’t receive much developer time? Or maybe Anet for some reason doesn’t agree with it, and are just stalling?
And still even more people just bandwagon on the issue, because it’s one issue they can point at, while what they really want is just a clear image of the direction the game is going to.
Honestly, the problems first started during the ascended gear introduction debacle. Anet at that time flatly refused to address the changes in game direction (to this day it wasn’t even acknowledged that any such changes happened), and continued to issue conflicting statements that muddled the issue even more.

The greatest problem now is not that i don’t know what Anet will release next week (though it is a problem. Some surprises are good, but some stability and information is good too). The problem is that i had a pretty good idea about the game themes and direction when it launched, but now i truly have no clue. And i start to suspect that someone here doesn’t want me to have that clue, because maybe (if i knew) i’d decide it’s no longer going in the direction i wanted, and it’s time to abandon ship.

When i ride on the bus if i notice it’s no longer going in the original direction, i’d rather hear what is the new destination, to be able to decide if it’s still somewhere i’d want to go. And yet, the driver keeps stating that his company policy prevents him from divulging that information to me.

That is the situation we’re currently in, i’m afraid.

(and i’d like to point out, that i have never felt that way while playing Guild Wars 1)

Gaile Gray.6029:

Inculpatus cedo.9234:

Well, new Profession balance information is coming this Friday, and they are taking feedback on those proposed changes, and will use it to adjust them….so, there’s that. =)

Thanks for noticing. Coming up in minutes.

MFoy.3284:

~snip~ Although I notice Gaile hasn’t posted in the last few pages I’d guess the thread is getting read at some level.

Yes, every word. A few comments probably could use pruning because they’re really not contributing, but I think a light hand is ok, and am trusting we can have this discussion with narry a torch or pitchfork in sight!

Oh btw, MFoy, I think your post had a light of insight. Thank you for that.

Rauderi — People respond in different ways to unpleasantness. I don’t believe “hide in the shadows” is accurate — our devs are not prone to hiding — but in a general sense yes, some people would hesitate to dive into a situation if they thought they’d be met with a lot of hostility. Let me offer up yet another Patented Silly Analogy™:
Comment — “Hey, I’m serving cake.”
Responses — “Thanks.” but then… “WTH, no ice cream?” “But I wanted chocolate cake and you’re offering spice cake.” “You suck, I wanted a full dinner!” “How about those cookies you promised us last month?” And, basically, “Yeah, there’s a lot of cake, and it’s great, and a lot of people are liking it, but what about my needs?”
Again, I’m not discounting a single dissenting point of view, here or anywhere else. Not one. But it crossed my mind how things could be seen, from an observer’s point of view.

Korossive — you don’t consider Living World to be a fulfillment of the “evolving dynamics and development?” I do — in spades!

joe — Interesting point of view, thanks for sharing that.

ok there is two major kinds of communication that you guys need to have.
low level, day to day communication, showing you know issues, discussing how to execute XYZ, which you have improved on since your communications initiative.

But that is not the only communication needed. And for retaining customers, it may not even be the most important. The other communication is focused on the big picture, the big projects, etc, that is the one that is probably more important for retaining players, its even more important for your company which has yet to establish a clear pattern of development/game direction etc.

Here is the fact no one here has any clear idea what the future development of this game is going to be about, or what the major concerns, or dreams of anet is anymore The only answer you give is living story, which means nothing, because it has meant 100 different things at different times.

Really Gaile, think for a second, you are selling a product that is supposed to have a developing future. Do you really believe anyone knows what the future of this game is? Dont you think that may be a problem?

Any poster after me, Tell me what are you sure about regarding the future of this game? future projects? What direction is the game heading?

looking at the guild CDIs I’d assume they are working on more guild-content and content for larger groups (as they recently hired a raid designer).

Marcus Greythorne.6843:

looking at the guild CDIs I’d assume they are working on more guild-content and content for larger groups (as they recently hired a raid designer).

You shouldn’t have to “assume”.

That’s the point.

Well judging from past CDIs it’s quite realistic, we talked about horizontal progression and zone progression before we got DryTop, a map that realised many ideas from that thread.

Astralporing.1957:

The greatest problem now is not that i don’t know what Anet will release next week (though it is a problem. Some surprises are good, but some stability and information is good too). The problem is that i had a pretty good idea about the game themes and direction when it launched, but now i truly have no clue. And i start to suspect that someone here doesn’t want me to have that clue, because maybe (if i knew) i’d decide it’s no longer going in the direction i wanted, and it’s time to abandon ship.

This.

When GW2 launched, it was pretty much what I expected it to be, because there had been such clear presentation of what ArenaNet was hoping to achieve with it. Some things might have been in an immature state, for example, the DE system. DEs were pretty much as described, and I could see a future in which the concept would grow and mature through iteration to something amazing.

Even with bugs, things not quite complete, GW2 felt and played like the game ArenaNet told me they were making.

That kind of vision-casting has become more and more infrequent over the last two years, but clearly some major changes of direction have occurred. We get “hey, we’re going to turn the ship some” but that doesn’t seem to be accompanied with “and here’s where we’re going now.”

“We had a problem with new player retention, so we revamped the new player experience”. Okay, change in direction. “We’re moving toward more permanent content so that people can replay the living story later”. Gotcha, the course has shifted based on player feedback. “We want to work on the guild experience.” Yep, another direction shift coming up here.

So the boat’s getting steered. But it’d really be helpful to get a clear presentation of the our intended destination.

Marcus Greythorne.6843:

looking at the guild CDIs I’d assume they are working on more guild-content and content for larger groups (as they recently hired a raid designer).

Good hypothesis, unfortunately even within the guild CDI they tell you that this is all just brainstorming, Its fairly unknown what they plan on doing about it. They are just gathering feedback, which is good, but it doesnt really mean the game overall will have a focus on Guilds, or that you can expect a ton of new guild content.

To me, the guild CDI tells me, the company is interested in hearing proposals related to guild content, and are considering the scope and desires of the customers. However, i dont think they have even decided if, and how much they are actually willing to invest into guild content for the future. Its essentially at this stage a fact finding mission for someone to prepare a proposal that may or may not make it into the development cycle.

As for hiring a raid designer, we dont really know if thats just a replacement for some staff that used to handle things like that leaving. After all someone designed tequatl, wurm, and most the world bosses

But you may be right, who knows, not us, we just guess.

i would actually like to know if thats their focus going forward though, because i could make a decsion about a game based on that.

My biggest issue with the current communication policy is that it wastes Anet’s time. Since this police was implemented (and before, since Anet always played things close to the chest) Anet has either added in features that were undesired by players or left out features that were heavily desired by players. This causes Anet to waste time on the iteration of these features, and then waste time again to fix / remove / replace these features. All the while they are taking flak after release because of unhappy players.

For example, in the new Trading Post (which is quite an upgrade), the final value total is glaringly left out when a player sells and item. In the NPE, the personal story had a large restructuring that ruined continuity and altered the ending, much to the anger of players. Players have also disliked the new, higher unlock levels for everything in the NPE. Getting older, players severely dislike the new trait scavenger hunt. (This ranges from disliking the difficulty to outright disliking a scavenger hunt.) Finally, and oldest, players have asked for PvE content updates above and beyond what the LW / LS provides, but it has been made clear that LW / LS is the only vehicle for PvE content updates.

Each of these issues could have been identified in pre-release iterations if Anet had a more open policy. Instead, I feel the players are being punished because Anet release an update with unwanted, disliked features. And, when players angrily lash out about these problem features, Anet uses that as an excuse not to talk about future design. This is hurting all of us Anet.

Gaile Gray.6029:

wwwes.1398:

I do hope my messages aren’t among the ones that need to be pruned. I try to keep things on an even keel,, civil and understanding, even though I am impassioned by nature.

But the company’s policy is unacceptable, it is untenable in the long run, and it is directly responsible for a great deal of player ennui.

I respect your efforts to keep things civil. In fact, I applaud them, because I know how challenging that effort can be in the face of situations about which one is emotional.

I take on board your thoughts about the company’s policy, and I know you’d like something different, as would others. However, I feel that Mike O’Brien explained the why’s and wherefore’s of the policy, even while he also implemented changes that would improve communication.

Case in point: A Forum Communications Team, with members in all four supported languages. Not that I believe my team is the be-all and end-all, for I fully understand that some would prefer to communicate with devs who are dedicated to talking about the game on a regular, even daily basis. But I’m not sure where the real cap is on “this isn’t enough” and “this is just right” and I think it may be a moving target when you’re talking about a large group of diverse people with different viewpoints and priorities.

At the present time, I hope that the devs who are actively communicating are valued for what they’re doing. Beyond that, I feel sure forum members who look at the subject objectively would agree that it would be an error in judgment to assign devs to expend a lot of time writing forum or blog posts when their primary focus should be on developing the game.

Some communication from devs is great, and we’ll continue to see how we can make more of that happen. Yes — I hope we can get more, I really do. In return, players should continue to tell us their particular points of concern or focus, so that when we do have dev interaction, we can try to hone in on meaningful topics.

Thanks for reading.

Speaking solely for myself, your team’s efforts to let us know that issues are being considered (when that’s so) is plenty.

John.5732:

My biggest issue with the current communication policy is that it wastes Anet’s time. Since this police was implemented (and before, since Anet always played things close to the chest) Anet has either added in features that were undesired by players or left out features that were heavily desired by players. This causes Anet to waste time on the iteration of these features, and then waste time again to fix / remove / replace these features. All the while they are taking flak after release because of unhappy players.

For example, in the new Trading Post (which is quite an upgrade), the final value total is glaringly left out when a player sells and item. In the NPE, the personal story had a large restructuring that ruined continuity and altered the ending, much to the anger of players. Players have also disliked the new, higher unlock levels for everything in the NPE. Getting older, players severely dislike the new trait scavenger hunt. (This ranges from disliking the difficulty to outright disliking a scavenger hunt.) Finally, and oldest, players have asked for PvE content updates above and beyond what the LW / LS provides, but it has been made clear that LW / LS is the only vehicle for PvE content updates.

Each of these issues could have been identified in pre-release iterations if Anet had a more open policy. Instead, I feel the players are being punished because Anet release an update with unwanted, disliked features. And, when players angrily lash out about these problem features, Anet uses that as an excuse not to talk about future design. This is hurting all of us Anet.

I agree with John on this and from what I have seen online in the various forums here and elsewhere GW2 people for different reasons/wants/desires/likes all agree on one thing, among everything else. ALL believe that an expansion in the traditional sense of a content package is the only viable vehicle that can deliver what the majority of the veteran/regular player base wants and needs for the enjoyment of their gaming experience and online leisure time.

This has been communicated in many different ways and forms but we the player base have no real proof that this opinion has been heard and actioned by those that “green light” development proposals…….

I also agree with the players asking for more discussion about future plans and old projects. What happened to the old projects like precursor crafting, Ranger pet fixing, Hobosacks, player house, fractal redo, etc? Where is Anet going with this game? Are we still focusing on the esport aspect? Does WvW matter to anyone? Will we ever see new classes?

I would love to know.

Agreed. Nicholas and John are stating the number one on my hit parade as well. Expansion news. Swear to God I’ve got the $60 cash right here. No gemstore games.

Given that what we have is what we got… Gaile is what we got able to shed any light on this one? It seems to be the deal breaker in most folks minds. I would agree that the “Where are we and where are we headed?” is a variation on Expansion news.

For extra XP it would be great if yourself or even Mike could hit the high points on ArenaNet and the games health. Even if all you could say is “We’re following up with a successful launch in China and enjoy a stable player base in NA/EU.” it would be something.

What would it take to bring this to the table?

Now, you don’t have to answer right now but sooner is better than later. Serious, what can we agree on regarding timeline disclosure?

(Note to self: Buy more torches)

I appreciate your constant interaction in this thread, Gaile.

But seeing as you’ve repeatedly come back to Mike O’Brien’s post as the final word on the communication question, I figured I’d go through it step by step and show you and those from ANet reading why his post is anemic.

Mike O Brien.4613:

I know some are concerned about whether ArenaNet is communicating with you and listening and responding to your feedback. As you saw with yesterday’s announcement, we do. All of us at ArenaNet play the game with you, chat with you and read your forum posts . . .

This much is true. Even in the darker places of the forums (professions subform), it’s still clear that the devs do read/hear and they do respond to feedback and comments. However, that’s a very general reality that is not necessarily positive.

Mike O Brien.4613:

. . . and work on the things that we think will most delight and entertain you.

Here is where things immediately begin to break down. Working on the things that the devs “think will most entertain and delight” us is immediately problematic.

• First, as others have commented already, we have no idea (even vaguely) what those things are.
• Second, we don’t even have a design philosophy by which to judge those things. And there is where transparency becomes a critical problem. Even with no speculation whatsoever, having a design philosophy (for every sphere of the game) gives the playerbase a road map.
• Third, the devs have a shoddy track record of actually coming up with “delightful and entertaining” content, changes, or releases. Some of it is good—really good. But the good stuff tends to be horrifically gated or limited (SAB), and the stuff that sticks around forever is often disappointing, frustrating, or feels like an insult (NPE, Aetherblades TA path).

Mike O Brien.4613:

We’ve set a clear policy in the past year: we don’t talk speculatively about future development. We don’t want to string you along. Creating fun is an uncertain business: sometimes things work out and sometimes they don’t; sometimes we go back to the drawing board over and over before we get something right. If we make optimistic promises and then can’t deliver on them, everyone suffers. So when we attend a trade show or give an interview, we’re there to talk about what we’re getting ready to ship, not to speculate on what we might ship someday.

If the issue of transparency and communication were simply about future content releases (and, in most red posts, it’s been limited to story-line stuff), then I’d have no problem with this philosophy of silence-until-certainty.

But it’s when this communication philosophy gets slapped onto the existing game that it really falls apart.

Example: The most recent feature patch included ReadyUp streams outlining the trait modifications, etc. to each class—two a week leading up to release. ANet has historically pointed to this kind of thing as successful communication.

The problem, however, lies in the fact that none of the changes were discussed with enough time for the playerbase (which, arguably knows the classes far better than the devs—several of us have a few thousand hours clocked playing one single class) to offer critique and feedback.

So the devs walk away patting themselves on the back, and the playerbase walks away feeling like they got patted in the face—with a tire-iron.

Mike O Brien.4613:

Don’t read that as meaning that we don’t want to talk with you about the longer-term roadmap. The intention of the CDI threads is to talk with you about the roadmap. We want to talk design philosophy with you and hear how you want to see the game evolve. When those discussions trigger development, we’ll work internally until we have something we’re proud of before we’ll announce it.

Again, the heart of this is good—having a design philosophy (or, to use Mike’s words, a roadmap) is great! But we don’t actually have this. And the vision that ANet set out with is not the vision that they’ve delivered. Hence the outcry that ANet is not transparent.

Additionally, because ANet has been so resistant to make changes when the playerbase has soundly rejected something, it communicates that ANet doesn’t actually care about the input it receives from the players.

Announcing something that ANet’s proud of is fine, but when the community says it won’t work, or it’s broken, ANet ships it anyway. Why? Once again, it communicates that ANet doesn’t believe the players have an accurate view of the game (remember, peeps be playing for thousands of hours), and should just accept the changes as-is—even when they violate the at-time-of-launch design philosophy of the game.

Continued from above:

Mike O Brien.4613:

A lot of the questions I’ve seen posted this week are as simple as this: does ArenaNet have an agenda to never do something? That’s almost never the case, and if it is the case you deserve to know and we’ll make sure we get more clear. In general the simple truth is this: when we’re not currently working on something, it’s because we’re working on something else instead that we think is more important for the game and community.

I want to hit on this briefly:

• One, the reason the “does ANet intend to never do xyz?” question comes up is simply that there are things that have taken over two years to be addressed. Problems riddle GW2 like a machine gun nest. Dozens of traits were broken and useless for years. The fact that the obvious stuff never got touched (broken traits, skills, bugs in events and dungeons, missing armor pieces, glaring clipping issues) communicates that ANet either 1) doesn’t play its own game, or 2) does not intend to dealing with them.
• ANet hasn’t communicated its design philosophy or priorities in any substantial way since launch (beta was a different story). So the comment, “it’s because we’re working on something else instead that we think is more important for the game and community” becomes ridiculous. Players have no way of knowing what the devs “think is important” until it’s too late and the newest patch hits. And so very often, what the devs “think is important” leaves the playerbase scratching their collective heads.

Mike O Brien.4613:

Our developers post on these forums on a voluntary basis, and in addition to developers, we have a community team who can clarify and be the bridge between players and developers. They’re ready to engage you on these topics. And I know it’s hard for the community team to engage players across all the forums and sites where these questions are being discussed, so I’m going to support the team in consolidating and focusing as necessary, so that we can be clear to the community where you can go to get a response.
See you in-game,
Mike O’Brien

Finally, I want to point out that, yes, I recognize this is ANet’s game. The playerbase didn’t design it, produce it, and ship it to market. It’s not open-source.

But playing the line of “We want the players’ input” has become tedious, because ANet’s track record of responding well to that input has been tenuous at best. Either ask for input and make use of it, or tell us y’all are doing your own thing regardless.

Until we get a transparent design philosophy, some clear design priorities, and the “whys” and “hows” of changes to the current patch, ANet’s going to have a rather grumpy playerbase.

I worked in the software industry for a bit and we never, I repeat never, let a week go by without communicating to our customers what our current development priorities were. And you know what? Sometimes we didn’t meet our deadlines, which we explained to our customers with the reasons why. And guess what? Our customers were angry. Know what else? Life went on, we continued developing the software, and our customers knew exactly what we were doing. I dare say our stakes were higher too, since it was $65 million dollar project (yay for government contracts). I guess I can’t understand why ANet is unwilling to act in a similar fashion.

Case in point: A Forum Communications Team, with members in all four supported languages. Not that I believe my team is the be-all and end-all, for I fully understand that some would prefer to communicate with devs who are dedicated to talking about the game on a regular, even daily basis. But I’m not sure where the real cap is on “this isn’t enough” and “this is just right” and I think it may be a moving target when you’re talking about a large group of diverse people with different viewpoints and priorities.

Gaile, I think that you do a great job at what you do, and it does matter whether the messenger is a developer or a community relations member, but what matters is the message. Whether it’s you or Mike, if the message is vague platitudes like “we’re listening to you.” then it’s pointless and a waste of everyone’s time. If the message is :here is what we’re doing. . ." then that’s great, whether delivered directly by a dev or second hand through you.

NewTrain.7549:

I worked in the software industry for a bit and we never, I repeat never, let a week go by without communicating to our customers what our current development priorities were. And you know what? Sometimes we didn’t meet our deadlines, which we explained to our customers with the reasons why. And guess what? Our customers were angry. Know what else? Life went on, we continued developing the software, and our customers knew exactly what we were doing. I dare say our stakes were higher too, since it was $65 million dollar project (yay for government contracts). I guess I can’t understand why ANet is unwilling to act in a similar fashion.

The only logical answer is that they just don’t have anything worth announcing or they refuse to make big updates that blow people away and save them for the last minute so they can throw their hands in the air and say “welp, too late now for changes it launches in 2 days!” when we inevitably say “That’s it?”

I mean, Square Enix just released their teaser for their next major update and it’s a big package of things people have been asking for and things that they have hinted at or directly described for months now (ninja class, new coil ect). God forbid Anet ever let us know anything more than a week in advance without a stifling air of ambiguity.