Guild Wars 2

Vayne.8563:

So when Anet nerfs a farming spot they’re doing it for what they see as the good of the game. The farmers can like it, or hate it, but it won’t stop Anet from doing it. And every time it happens if they come complaining to the forums, it doesn’t change the facts.

Players letting the developers know they dislike a change, or have reasons to suspect a change is too draconian, is important, since such feedback can change implementation.

Since you’ve abandoned your other arguments, there’s nothing left to say at this juncture.

Vayne.8563:

laokoko.7403:

Vayne.8563:

Phaedryn.3698:

I am curious what the thought process was the lead to the 200% MF buff on the island if they were just going to turn around and do kitten like this? It almost seems like a cruel joke now. Just waiting for a dev to pop on and yell “Psych!”. If anyone ever asks why I will not buy gems, I point to kitten like this and just reply “kitten em…”

I don’t know, that buff’s been around for a couple of weeks. They nerfed one area of an entire island. I’m not so sure what’s so hard about killing karka or killing reef riders, or going into the water and killing sharks. Maybe it’s me.

Don’t you notice some place get you more money? That’s say you make 2 gold maybe the other people can make 5?

I saw your comment the first time.

The farm was too easy. Everyone was doing it. They took it away, and people will find another farming spot, in this case 5 feet away.

Do you know the express “storm in a teacup”. Every time they nerf a farming spot, a few guys get irate, someone else finds another farming spot and they farm.

Storm in a teacup. I’m sure you can make just as much money if not more farming armored scale. The sharks are fantastic.

Man you keep telling people that sharks are good for T6 scales (they are I’ve farmed them even before the 200% mf buff :P) then it will be the next thing to be nerfed.

Anytime someone posts about a farm on the forums it gets nerfed, I can only assume thats what you’re gunning for.

But hey if it does my 5 stacks of T6 scales would love to see a price jump.

killcannon.2576:

Vayne.8563:

Thanks for this. Jon says it a lot better than I do. See, Guns, I’m not putting words into anyone’s mouths.

Yes he does. He says “Farmers good”. Maybe people can take that to heart. I doubt it though, people will see what they want to see….like politicians trying to push an agenda.

Perhaps it might help if you temper the “farmers good” message with the other statement Jon made in the same post…

JonPeters.5630:

When one activity emerges that’s order of magnitudes more profitable than anything else in the game, it forces everyone to either engage in that activity or get priced out of the economy.

I take his post to mean that while there’s nothing intrinsically wrong with people farming, it should be spread across multiple areas with no one farm spot far more profitable or easier than other farm spots. If you’re relying on densely packed areas with fast respawns or endless waves of mobs to mindlessly farm, then you can probably expect that area to be nerfed if it becomes popular due to the “easy” profits that can be made.

Guns and Giblets.9308:

Vayne.8563:

So when Anet nerfs a farming spot they’re doing it for what they see as the good of the game. The farmers can like it, or hate it, but it won’t stop Anet from doing it. And every time it happens if they come complaining to the forums, it doesn’t change the facts.

Players letting the developers know they dislike a change, or have reasons to suspect a change is too draconian, is important, since such feedback can change implementation.

Since you’ve abandoned your other arguments, there’s nothing left to say at this juncture.

I haven’t abandoned anything. When a farming spot yields too much, becomes too popular (probably because it yields too much) it gets nerfed. The farmers complain because they have their own interest at heat. They could care less about the good of the game. It’s about I can’t get my easy X/K per hour. Not all farmers. Plenty of them shrug, find another place and happily farm away.

They say Anet is ruining the game for them. It’s saving the game for some of us.

Astraea.6075:

killcannon.2576:

Vayne.8563:

Thanks for this. Jon says it a lot better than I do. See, Guns, I’m not putting words into anyone’s mouths.

Yes he does. He says “Farmers good”. Maybe people can take that to heart. I doubt it though, people will see what they want to see….like politicians trying to push an agenda.

Perhaps it might help if you temper the “farmers good” message with the other statement Jon made in the same post…

JonPeters.5630:

When one activity emerges that’s order of magnitudes more profitable than anything else in the game, it forces everyone to either engage in that activity or get priced out of the economy.

I take his post to mean that while there’s nothing intrinsically wrong with people farming, it should be spread across multiple areas with no one farm spot far more profitable or easier than other farm spots. If you’re relying on densely packed areas with fast respawns or endless waves of mobs to mindlessly farm, then you can probably expect that area to be nerfed if it becomes popular due to the “easy” profits that can be made.

I agree with that. So they nerfed the skelk because it was too profitable. What’s the problem?

KingClash.3186:

Vayne.8563:

laokoko.7403:

Vayne.8563:

Phaedryn.3698:

I am curious what the thought process was the lead to the 200% MF buff on the island if they were just going to turn around and do kitten like this? It almost seems like a cruel joke now. Just waiting for a dev to pop on and yell “Psych!”. If anyone ever asks why I will not buy gems, I point to kitten like this and just reply “kitten em…”

I don’t know, that buff’s been around for a couple of weeks. They nerfed one area of an entire island. I’m not so sure what’s so hard about killing karka or killing reef riders, or going into the water and killing sharks. Maybe it’s me.

Don’t you notice some place get you more money? That’s say you make 2 gold maybe the other people can make 5?

I saw your comment the first time.

The farm was too easy. Everyone was doing it. They took it away, and people will find another farming spot, in this case 5 feet away.

Do you know the express “storm in a teacup”. Every time they nerf a farming spot, a few guys get irate, someone else finds another farming spot and they farm.

Storm in a teacup. I’m sure you can make just as much money if not more farming armored scale. The sharks are fantastic.

Man you keep telling people that sharks are good for T6 scales (they are I’ve farmed them even before the 200% mf buff :P) then it will be the next thing to be nerfed.

Anytime someone posts about a farm on the forums it gets nerfed, I can only assume thats what you’re gunning for.

But hey if it does my 5 stacks of T6 scales would love to see a price jump.

It doesn’t matter what I say or don’t say. In a day or two, someone will find the next “big” spot, and it will get nerfed, because it IS the next big spot. Once a farming spot gets too profitable, ie much better than others, it will get nerfed. If the scale thing gets nerfed, that meant too many people were doing it, and it was bad for the game.

Sure, I’m all for that.

Vayne.8563:

I haven’t abandoned anything.

Anyone can check the record. You made several attempts at arguments: appeal to analogy, appeals to experience, appeal to design, etc. Problems were raised with several of these (and not just be me), and you have now abandoned those arguments, in favor of quoting Smith.

I’ve studied discourse, logic and philosophy at the undergraduate and graduate levels, including some courses at NYU. You can try to bolster your argument on alternative grounds, but the unwillingness to concede erroneous arguments or judgments (such as incorrectly attributing someone else’s words to me) is tiresome; all the bluster makes for poor conversation.

With that, I bow out.

Guns and Giblets.9308:

Vayne.8563:

I haven’t abandoned anything.

Anyone can check the record. You made several attempts at arguments: appeal to analogy, appeals to experience, appeal to design, etc. Problems were raised with several of these (and not just be me), and you have now abandoned those arguments, in favor of quoting Smith.

I’ve studied discourse, logic and philosophy at the undergraduate and graduate levels, including some courses at NYU. You can try to bolster your argument on alternative grounds, but the unwillingness to concede erroneous arguments or judgments (such as incorrectly attributing someone else’s words to me) is tiresome; all the bluster makes for poor conversation.

With that, I bow out.

Wow, you’re very impressive having studied all that. Had I know I’d never have argued with you.

I make different responses to different people, however my stance on farming, including the fact that some spots are too profitable and get nerfed, has appeared prior to this thread.

I post responsively which means that sometimes what I’m responding drives my narrative. It’s why I often get into trouble with the mods.

But since I’ve said what I said at the end prior to the start of the thread, what you say is largely irrelevant.

You have an issue with me, you’ve had an issue with me for a long time and your wide range of studies doesn’t conceal it. I think that generally speaking,. anything I say you’ll be happy to question. I’ll let your track record of responses to me speak for itself.3

ITT, posters approach other poster with an agenda: which consists of calling out said other poster has an agenda.

Wut? Is it so bad being biased? Does being biased make your statements invalid? If Vayne being biased for Anet makes his statements about his game invalid, then does that make people’s statements against Vayne invalid because you’re obviously biased against him?

Actually I looked at my earlier statement, and my first argument was that I was doing fine farming something else, but I couldn’t give numbers, because I don’t actually focus on numbers. My second argument was a response to someone suggesting that half the population farmed, which I disagreed with and doesn’t affect my core argument. Early on, very early I said that Anet will nerf a farming location that’s too popular because it’s too profitable. People who want to find fault with what someone is saying can always do it. I call people like that politicians.

It doesn’t matter if what someone is saying is right, as long as you can make them SOUND wrong.

Vayne.8563:

It doesn’t matter if what someone is saying is right, as long as you can make them SOUND wrong.

Hah! Yep, that’s politics all over.

Jemmi.6058:

‘you don’t fool me’ anet, you don’t want me to ‘play the game’

Or… maybe they want you to play the GAME, the full MMO, and not farm it.

The one good thing about Southsun and the zerg that farms there is that they’ve pretty much left the rest of the game to us real players.

No more farming zergs getting in the way of enjoying content in places like Orr.

Well we can’t reasonably say we didn’t see it coming. This place was obviously broken and expecting Anet to do nothing about it is just stupid. Personally I don’t really care, I’ve farmed more than my weight in gold there but I fell bad for players who just heard about this spot and didn’t have time to get their share.
But, well, we all know people will move on and find another spot. Are the sharks profitable ? Sure they are so are barracudas and other spots in SC. We don’t really need to know how many scales Vayne got from them, RNG is RNG.

The real issue with all these farm nerves (Union, lyssa, Sc etc..) is not the fact they are nerfed, honestly they should be, it is that they don’t freaking nerf CoF1.
Seriously, it’s been months people are getting huge amount of money out of nowhere from CoF path 1 and they still haven’t do anything about it. And that’s not like CoF1 would fit exactly Jon Peter’s description of what is abusive, let me quote it for you again :

JonPeters.5630:

It would be bad for everyone if, for example, a group of players learned how to speed-clear a dungeon in 5 minutes, with full rewards each time, and then repeated that continuously. When one activity emerges that’s order of magnitudes more profitable than anything else in the game, it forces everyone to either engage in that activity or get priced out of the economy

How long is a CoF p1 with 4 W 1 M ? 4 minutes ? oh well…

Yep, it’s long overdue for a nerf. The odds are they’re working on redoing it completely. It’s not quite as easy to change a dungeon as to stop an open world mob from scaling, I think.

Vayne.8563:

Yep, it’s long overdue for a nerf. The odds are they’re working on redoing it completely. It’s not quite as easy to change a dungeon as to stop an open world mob from scaling, I think.

It should have been sorted long before now, it is not a new phenomena. It’s a kitten poor effort frankly and there is zero excuse for it.

But no doubt someone will try and apologise for them, even though the current set up makes said apologists look like utter nut jobs.

Fenrir.3609:

Vayne.8563:

Yep, it’s long overdue for a nerf. The odds are they’re working on redoing it completely. It’s not quite as easy to change a dungeon as to stop an open world mob from scaling, I think.

It should have been sorted long before now, it is not a new phenomena. It’s a kitten poor effort frankly and there is zero excuse for it.

But no doubt someone will try and apologise for them, even though the current set up makes said apologists look like utter nut jobs.

Right, as opposed to the people who find fault with EVERYTHING and look rational. Gotcha.

Vayne.8563:

Fenrir.3609:

Vayne.8563:

Yep, it’s long overdue for a nerf. The odds are they’re working on redoing it completely. It’s not quite as easy to change a dungeon as to stop an open world mob from scaling, I think.

It should have been sorted long before now, it is not a new phenomena. It’s a kitten poor effort frankly and there is zero excuse for it.

But no doubt someone will try and apologise for them, even though the current set up makes said apologists look like utter nut jobs.

Right, as opposed to the people who find fault with EVERYTHING and look rational. Gotcha.

Was that meant to be some sort of come back?

Some people complain about everything, some apologise for everything. Some though do actually see issues and flaws and raise them on the forums. Amazing stuff.

Fenrir.3609:

Vayne.8563:

Fenrir.3609:

Vayne.8563:

Yep, it’s long overdue for a nerf. The odds are they’re working on redoing it completely. It’s not quite as easy to change a dungeon as to stop an open world mob from scaling, I think.

It should have been sorted long before now, it is not a new phenomena. It’s a kitten poor effort frankly and there is zero excuse for it.

But no doubt someone will try and apologise for them, even though the current set up makes said apologists look like utter nut jobs.

Right, as opposed to the people who find fault with EVERYTHING and look rational. Gotcha.

Was that meant to be some sort of come back? I do hope not as it was a rather pathetic one.

Some people complain about everything, some apologise for everything. Some though do actually see issues and flaws and raise them on the forums. Amazing stuff.

I’ve pointed out flaws too. I can show you to threads where I’ve done that. But without being inside a situation and really knowing that is and isn’t going on, it’s silly to make judgments.

In other words, judgment in the absence of insight is simply blowing smoke. When you next work for a major gaming company, producing a product, you’ll have the expertise to say what is and isn’t acceptable practice.

But one doesn’t have to be an apologist to be reasonable. One can express their opinions without attacking as well.

Vayne.8563:

Fenrir.3609:

Vayne.8563:

Fenrir.3609:

Vayne.8563:

Yep, it’s long overdue for a nerf. The odds are they’re working on redoing it completely. It’s not quite as easy to change a dungeon as to stop an open world mob from scaling, I think.

It should have been sorted long before now, it is not a new phenomena. It’s a kitten poor effort frankly and there is zero excuse for it.

But no doubt someone will try and apologise for them, even though the current set up makes said apologists look like utter nut jobs.

Right, as opposed to the people who find fault with EVERYTHING and look rational. Gotcha.

Was that meant to be some sort of come back? I do hope not as it was a rather pathetic one.

Some people complain about everything, some apologise for everything. Some though do actually see issues and flaws and raise them on the forums. Amazing stuff.

I’ve pointed out flaws too. I can show you to threads where I’ve done that. But without being inside a situation and really knowing that is and isn’t going on, it’s silly to make judgments.

In other words, judgment in the absence of insight is simply blowing smoke. When you next work for a major gaming company, producing a product, you’ll have the expertise to say what is and isn’t acceptable practice.

But one doesn’t have to be an apologist to be reasonable. One can express their opinions without attacking as well.

Ah the old “you can’t comment because you don’t make games” chestnut. Best shut the forums down now then.

Having played the game, having years or experience playing other games and having the ability to apply common sense is enough to see that there are glaring issues and that the current approach is far from great.

Running around and nerfing the kitten out of open world drops whilst having CoF speed runs galore and an endgame item system which actively promotes farming/grinding in the first place. Well you do not have to be Richard Garriott to see that is borked.

Fenrir.3609:

Vayne.8563:

Fenrir.3609:

Vayne.8563:

Fenrir.3609:

Vayne.8563:

Yep, it’s long overdue for a nerf. The odds are they’re working on redoing it completely. It’s not quite as easy to change a dungeon as to stop an open world mob from scaling, I think.

It should have been sorted long before now, it is not a new phenomena. It’s a kitten poor effort frankly and there is zero excuse for it.

But no doubt someone will try and apologise for them, even though the current set up makes said apologists look like utter nut jobs.

Right, as opposed to the people who find fault with EVERYTHING and look rational. Gotcha.

Was that meant to be some sort of come back? I do hope not as it was a rather pathetic one.

Some people complain about everything, some apologise for everything. Some though do actually see issues and flaws and raise them on the forums. Amazing stuff.

I’ve pointed out flaws too. I can show you to threads where I’ve done that. But without being inside a situation and really knowing that is and isn’t going on, it’s silly to make judgments.

In other words, judgment in the absence of insight is simply blowing smoke. When you next work for a major gaming company, producing a product, you’ll have the expertise to say what is and isn’t acceptable practice.

But one doesn’t have to be an apologist to be reasonable. One can express their opinions without attacking as well.

Ah the old “you can’t comment because you don’t make games” chestnut. Best shut the forums down now then.

Having played the game, having years or experience playing other games and having the ability to apply common sense is enough to see that there are glaring issues and that the current approach is far from great.

Running around and nerfing the kitten out of open world drops whilst having CoF speed runs galore and an endgame item system which actively promotes farming/grinding in the first place. Well you do not have to be Richard Garriott to see that is borked.

No one said you can’t comment. But saying something isn’t good or ideal and calling something absolutely inexcusable is a completely different story. Maybe you’re that intolerant that you think things are inexcusable, but some people think differently and it doesn’t necessarily make them apologists. I can think of several reasons why CoF is still running as it is.

There could, for example, be different factions that have different theories on how to solve it. One group could want a complete redo of the dungeon and another might want to change the reward structure to make it less rewarding but leave the difficulty. Projects with multiple leaders run into this kind of thing all the time.

They could even be waiting for the dungeon finder to be available, before they do it, intentionally, since it’s so easy to get groups for it. They may feel it’s worth waiting. They may even (I know this is hard for you to believe) have metrics on just how damaging it is and it might not be as bad as people think it is. There are a host of reasons that no one except Anet might know that would make this not only excusable but okay.

Saying something is absolutely inexcusable is the opinion of someone who hasn’t thought it through.

Guys just stop it lol. half of this page is almost filled with Vayne’s comments. make him the star of the day. he seems to know what he’s talking about. This guy really prefers the hard way guys. just deal with it. must be fun at parties

EXireXs.3602:

Guys just stop it lol. half of this page is almost filled with Vayne’s comments. make him the star of the day. he seems to know what he’s talking about. This guy really prefers the hard way guys. just deal with it. must be fun at parties

Half the people at parties love me, and half the people REALLY hate me. And you know…that’s okay. lol

Vayne.8563:

No one said you can’t comment. But saying something isn’t good or ideal and calling something absolutely inexcusable is a completely different story. Maybe you’re that intolerant that you think things are inexcusable, but some people think differently and it doesn’t necessarily make them apologists. I can think of several reasons why CoF is still running as it is.

There could, for example, be different factions that have different theories on how to solve it. One group could want a complete redo of the dungeon and another might want to change the reward structure to make it less rewarding but leave the difficulty. Projects with multiple leaders run into this kind of thing all the time.

They could even be waiting for the dungeon finder to be available, before they do it, intentionally, since it’s so easy to get groups for it. They may feel it’s worth waiting. They may even (I know this is hard for you) have metrics on just how damaging it is and it might not be as bad as people think it is. There are a host of reasons that no one except Anet might know that would make this not only excusable but okay.

Saying something is absolutely inexcusable is the opinion of someone who hasn’t thought it through.

Suggesting that I am intolerant because I find the current situation (which has dragged on for a good while now) inexcusable is somewhat amusing to say the least.

And yes, I have thought it through otherwise I wouldn’t comment on it.

Differing factions? Would excuse the situation if it was a new thing. It is not. If a company cannot resolve a dungeon speed run loot issue after a good deal of time due to the inability to come up with a consensus then there are problems.

Waiting for dungeon finder? Two things occur. First of all, that doesn’t do anything to impact on the loot disparity. Secondly, if it is as simple as waiting for dungeon finder, how about tell us? If they feel it is worth waiting, tell us. Doesn’t take much effort.

Metrics on how damaging it is? Well again, try communicate.

There is plenty of good about the game and what ANET have done/tried to do. There is also quite alot wrong with it and their approach. Some of those things simply cannot be excused at this point in time.

To be completely honest I’m not entirely sure why I am even bothering to have this debate with you. You keep fighting the good fight.

lol @ vayne he always has a answer to everything

Anet doesn’t communicate, because when they do, people either rip what they say to shreds, take it out context, use it as a basis for a completely fictitious framework, or otherwise undermine what’s being said. And that’s when Anet doesn’t actually put their foot in their mouth themselves which has happened.

I can give you numerous instances were Anet said something quite clearly that continues to be misquoted or at least misintepreted to this day. MMO fans are tragic. Maybe if the result of being open was less frustrating they would do it more often.

schwaahly.3254:

lol @ vayne he always has a answer to everything

Yep, I grew up in a family of debaters. I learned young.

Maybe they are working on something more elaborate to solve definitely the CoF1 issue, maybe not. In any case, it doesn’t prevent them from doing a quick fix such as a temporary hard cap on CoF1 rewards that will stop the gold flow that is currently happening.

Dont get why they nerf EVERYTHING but CoF.

they should do what they did to Canach, reward 1 time only.

they wanna stop any farm in their game? do it.

> shark farming

I got a weapon ticket from a crate from a personal chest while farming shark in south sun yesterday. The sharks wander round in nice tight packs of five or so. Get ‘em before they’re gone!

Kichwas.7152:

Jemmi.6058:

‘you don’t fool me’ anet, you don’t want me to ‘play the game’

Or… maybe they want you to play the GAME, the full MMO, and not farm it.

The one good thing about Southsun and the zerg that farms there is that they’ve pretty much left the rest of the game to us real players.

No more farming zergs getting in the way of enjoying content in places like Orr.

Whatever happened to anet philosophy, “play the game the way you want.” Maybe he enjoys farming it, and that’s how he likes to play.

Shar.3402:

lol, just lol.
you have to farm for the legendary, but we won’t let you farm (cit. A.net)

No you don’t. I got my legendary 1 month ago (played since release)and I didn’t really had to grind at all or exchange gems to gold.

It doesn’t matter what I say or don’t say. In a day or two, someone will find the next “big” spot, and it will get nerfed, because it IS the next big spot. Once a farming spot gets too profitable, ie much better than others, it will get nerfed. If the scale thing gets nerfed, that meant too many people were doing it, and it was bad for the game.

Sure, I’m all for that.[/quote]

So you’re saying its a good habit for Anet to keep nerfing at whatever farm becomes to big, popular, or too profitable.

How about this, Anet?
Just lower the density of ALL mobs in the whole game.
Put a long respawn time on them or whatever.
No “farming spot of the month”. No nerfing. No raging on the forum.

Clipbord.8726:

Kichwas.7152:

Jemmi.6058:

‘you don’t fool me’ anet, you don’t want me to ‘play the game’

Or… maybe they want you to play the GAME, the full MMO, and not farm it.

The one good thing about Southsun and the zerg that farms there is that they’ve pretty much left the rest of the game to us real players.

No more farming zergs getting in the way of enjoying content in places like Orr.

Whatever happened to anet philosophy, “play the game the way you want.” Maybe he enjoys farming it, and that’s how he likes to play.

Anet has explained this philosophy many times over. Play your own way doesn’t mean anything you want to do will be rewarded exactly the same way. They didn’t say there would be no rules or boundaries. Anyone thinking about it has to acknowledge that some people, for example, like to grief people. But they wouldn’t be welcome playing the game their way. Some people like to exploit. They wouldn’t be welcome to play the game their way.

They’re saying to get “end game” gear, in most games, you have to raid. There’s one path to end game gear in most games and that’s it. In Guild Wars 2 you have dailies, you have guild missions, you have fractals. You have WvW, you have crafting, you can even get exotic armor by just doing events and saving your karma.

So you don’t really have to run dungeons at all to get exotic gear. Or you can JUST run dungeons to get exotic gear. Hell, you can play max level PvP without doing PvE at all. That’s what Anet meant (and has said they meant) by play your way. And this was all said before launch btw.

It doesn’t mean farmers can do whatever they want, because every game has parameters. And you know, though some farmers post every time a farming spot is nerfed, I have farmers in my guild who actually STILL FARM. They don’t complain because they’re team players and understand the good of the game should come first.

Some people are just more selfish.

Vayne just stop. Stop please. I’m begging you.

Jemmi.6058:

Well, I had a ‘crazy little thing called love’ for that spot, I’d run out screaming ’don’t stop me now!" The only time I’d leave is if there was a ‘dragon attack’ and I’d be gone in a ‘flash’. You see, getting my legendary is a ‘long way’ off, but ‘you don’t fool me’ anet, you don’t want me to ‘play the game’

Ah well, ‘bohemian rhapsody’.

Jemmi, ’don’t lose your head’.

;)

Iconik.8712:

Vayne just stop. Stop please. I’m begging you.

Why should he stop? He’s playing the game his way and obviously having a blast.

Vayne.8563:

Ruh roh. Looks like the farmers are up in arms. Anyone actually play and see how much slower it is to make money? Maybe try killing some of the other stuff on the island which drops blood and fangs?

Honestly I don’t get you guys. In the time you’ve been here complaining, I’ve gotten 4 armored scales. And it hasn’t been that long.

Because you don’t even play the same game as us. I envy your fairy tale world you have created for yourself.

Iconik.8712:

Vayne just stop. Stop please. I’m begging you.

Good luck getting this one to stop.

Minos.3450:

JonPeters.5630:

It would be bad for everyone if, for example, a group of players learned how to speed-clear a dungeon in 5 minutes, with full rewards each time, and then repeated that continuously. When one activity emerges that’s order of magnitudes more profitable than anything else in the game, it forces everyone to either engage in that activity or get priced out of the economy

How long is a CoF p1 with 4 W 1 M ? 4 minutes ? oh well…

Vayne.8563:

Yep, it’s long overdue for a nerf. The odds are they’re working on redoing it completely. It’s not quite as easy to change a dungeon as to stop an open world mob from scaling, I think.

Southsun has me on the fence on this.

On the one hand having gone with one of those ‘speed clear groups’ to do CoF p2, I noticed they do it by glitching, jumping over walls, and so on.
- I’m of a mind that anyone that has run this place like that more than twice deserves a ban, and for that I’d love to see my credit for having gone there stripped from my account. Actually waiting to go proper with a guild group -before- I finish Arah so I can feel I earned Dungeon Master when it pops.

On the other hand…

Southsun has become a farm between two enraged settler events. The farmers do NOTHING 24/7 but pat back and forth between those two mobs (*), and queue for CoF p1/2.

This is a blessing for the rest of us. We can now avoid these fools with ease. Other than an occasional bad attitude person, the rest of the game has improved dramatically now that the farmers have been herded out of the way.

I’m enjoying dungeons and Orr and even the lowbie Kryta zones now that the farmers are gone.

So if Anet isn’t going to just flat out ban any farmer / bot. I’m glad they’ve at least sectioned them off with an effective lure – and while these places should not exist and I feel should be patched out, I also dread having to deal with farmers messing up the game environment again.

That said, I notice the PvE zergs tend to go anywhere there’s a commander icon. So simply disabling commander icons outside of WvW might keep mega-zergs from forming and messing up events in PvE areas. Small sets of farmers could do their thing, without becoming a nuisance to others.

(*) Yes I have gone to that event to/fro – doing each of those events once a day. It frustrates me that no other group event in Southsun is viable because of the lure of the zerg. But at least group events in Orr now -are- viable because there’s no farm zerg sucking up all the attention, so when people say "need help with X’ others actually go and do it.

Iconik.8712:

Vayne just stop. Stop please. I’m begging you.

Stop what? (he asked innocently).

Aeonblade.8709:

Vayne.8563:

Ruh roh. Looks like the farmers are up in arms. Anyone actually play and see how much slower it is to make money? Maybe try killing some of the other stuff on the island which drops blood and fangs?

Honestly I don’t get you guys. In the time you’ve been here complaining, I’ve gotten 4 armored scales. And it hasn’t been that long.

Because you don’t even play the same game as us. I envy your fairy tale world you have created for yourself.

Iconik.8712:

Vayne just stop. Stop please. I’m begging you.

Good luck getting this one to stop.

But I’m playing the same game as the people who agree with me, which you seem to not realize equals about half the forums. Are we ALL living in a fantasy world because we ALL have a different opinion of the game then you do?

Pretty patronizing, if you ask me.

Kichwas.7152:

Minos.3450:

JonPeters.5630:

It would be bad for everyone if, for example, a group of players learned how to speed-clear a dungeon in 5 minutes, with full rewards each time, and then repeated that continuously. When one activity emerges that’s order of magnitudes more profitable than anything else in the game, it forces everyone to either engage in that activity or get priced out of the economy

How long is a CoF p1 with 4 W 1 M ? 4 minutes ? oh well…

Vayne.8563:

Yep, it’s long overdue for a nerf. The odds are they’re working on redoing it completely. It’s not quite as easy to change a dungeon as to stop an open world mob from scaling, I think.

Southsun has me on the fence on this.

On the one hand having gone with one of those ‘speed clear groups’ to do CoF p2, I noticed they do it by glitching, jumping over walls, and so on.
- I’m of a mind that anyone that has run this place like that more than twice deserves a ban, and for that I’d love to see my credit for having gone there stripped from my account. Actually waiting to go proper with a guild group -before- I finish Arah so I can feel I earned Dungeon Master when it pops.

On the other hand…

Southsun has become a farm between two enraged settler events. The farmers do NOTHING 24/7 but pat back and forth between those two mobs (*), and queue for CoF p1/2.

This is a blessing for the rest of us. We can now avoid these fools with ease. Other than an occasional bad attitude person, the rest of the game has improved dramatically now that the farmers have been herded out of the way.

I’m enjoying dungeons and Orr and even the lowbie Kryta zones now that the farmers are gone.

So if Anet isn’t going to just flat out ban any farmer / bot. I’m glad they’ve at least sectioned them off with an effective lure – and while these places should not exist and I feel should be patched out, I also dread having to deal with farmers messing up the game environment again.

That said, I notice the PvE zergs tend to go anywhere there’s a commander icon. So simply disabling commander icons outside of WvW might keep mega-zergs from forming and messing up events in PvE areas. Small sets of farmers could do their thing, without becoming a nuisance to others.

(*) Yes I have gone to that event to/fro – doing each of those events once a day. It frustrates me that no other group event in Southsun is viable because of the lure of the zerg. But at least group events in Orr now -are- viable because there’s no farm zerg sucking up all the attention, so when people say "need help with X’ others actually go and do it.

It’s as if you lump in farmers with the gaming ‘scum’ of hackers, botters and exploiters

Kichwas.7152:

Southsun has become a farm between two enraged settler events. The farmers do NOTHING 24/7 but pat back and forth between those two mobs (*), and queue for CoF p1/2.

This is a blessing for the rest of us. We can now avoid these fools with ease. Other than an occasional bad attitude person, the rest of the game has improved dramatically now that the farmers have been herded out of the way.

Speaking for myself, I kinda like that there’s roving gangs of instigator hunters for when I’m done roaming Southsun for nodes and mobs. Its a nice change of pace and the drops aren’t shabby either.

Iconik.8712:

Vayne just stop. Stop please. I’m begging you.

Just because he posts the most does not mean he is even close to alone in his opinion. His stance on many of these issues is what I find most of the time in world.

But I suspect myself, he, and then some of you on the other side of this travel in very different circles.

Vol.5241:

It’s as if you lump in farmers with the gaming ‘scum’ of hackers, botters and exploiters

There’s a difference?

Its just the same mentality on different scales or level of technical savvy.

But I’m sure they’re also glad what with Southsun that they have a place where regular folks are not all ‘up in their business’.

What a shame. I only hope the Queen Karka event chain makes up for it.

Kichwas.7152:

Vol.5241:

It’s as if you lump in farmers with the gaming ‘scum’ of hackers, botters and exploiters

There’s a difference?

Yes. Farming is a legitimate way to the game in new ways, while farming gold.

See GW1. People there would farm everything from Trolls in the Shiverpeaks, to Aatxes and Smite Crawlers in the Underworld. They would use a variety of builds to do so, like a Monk build which made them invulnerable to the enemy attacks, to a Ritualist build which barricaded yourself with a wall of turrets/spirits.

Considering the max level was very early in GW1, with little to no progression after that, it was the farming community which kept it alive.

Kain Francois.4328:

What a shame. I only hope the Queen Karka event chain makes up for it.

Kichwas.7152:

Vol.5241:

It’s as if you lump in farmers with the gaming ‘scum’ of hackers, botters and exploiters

There’s a difference?

Yes. Farming is a legitimate way to the game in new ways, while farming gold.

The only difference between a farmer and a botter is the number of accounts one has been caught using.

The only difference between a CoF dungeon farmer and a banned exploiter is which one has been caught.

I’m sure an account hacker / gold seller would also describe it as a legitimate way to play the game – in fact there was even one months back on reddit saying just that when his friends got banned for hacking / exploiting, with a long “its their job” rant.

You all cause the same problems for the viability of the game. Just a difference of scale.

Be glad you mostly have Vayne to argue up in here. He at least concedes a space for your kind. Some of us who are just in game and not posting are a lot less accepting of the farmers and botters.

Astraea.6075:

killcannon.2576:

Vayne.8563:

Thanks for this. Jon says it a lot better than I do. See, Guns, I’m not putting words into anyone’s mouths.

Yes he does. He says “Farmers good”. Maybe people can take that to heart. I doubt it though, people will see what they want to see….like politicians trying to push an agenda.

Perhaps it might help if you temper the “farmers good” message with the other statement Jon made in the same post…

JonPeters.5630:

When one activity emerges that’s order of magnitudes more profitable than anything else in the game, it forces everyone to either engage in that activity or get priced out of the economy.

I take his post to mean that while there’s nothing intrinsically wrong with people farming, it should be spread across multiple areas with no one farm spot far more profitable or easier than other farm spots. If you’re relying on densely packed areas with fast respawns or endless waves of mobs to mindlessly farm, then you can probably expect that area to be nerfed if it becomes popular due to the “easy” profits that can be made.

I don’t need to temper my post, Mr. Peters post says the exact same thing. The economy depends upon farmers, he states that if you enjoy doing a normal game activity it’s ok to do it over and over. At no point in his post does he say that you need to move to farm or spread anything across multiple areas. If you are seeing this it’s because you choose to take the post out of context. The game mechanics are tied into making very small areas farmable for periods of time. The only thing he speaks negatively about are exploiters and botters. DR is in place to stop those activities.

Like I stated, people will choose to take the comments out of context to push their agenda.

Kichwas.7152:

Jemmi.6058:

‘you don’t fool me’ anet, you don’t want me to ‘play the game’

Or… maybe they want you to play the GAME, the full MMO, and not farm it.

The one good thing about Southsun and the zerg that farms there is that they’ve pretty much left the rest of the game to us real players.

No more farming zergs getting in the way of enjoying content in places like Orr.

Please do not take my post so seriously. It was literally just a bunch of Queen songs strung together to form a coherent thought!

PS: If I quit, it’s not because of the farming nerf, it’s because the game has been crashing constantly for me since last weeks patch

Farmers play the game, whereas botters do not. (And often-times botters use the gold for malicious purposes such as gold-selling.)

As for exploits, can you really say all of them are a bad thing to be banned over? Without exploits, we wouldn’t have the infamous 55 monk, and GW1 wouldn’t have the recognition it gathered over the years. The question over exploits is whether or not it breaks the game and economy? I have a hard time believing they would ban someone for exploring out of bounds in the Super Adventure Box because it has no impact on the economy whatsoever, and the player does not personally gain anything.

That said, I have a hard time believing CoF p1 is an exploit. It’s simply players speed-clearing a dungeon… Would you say UWSC and FoWSC of GW1 were explotis too? No glitches or unintended design involved. It’s simply players repeating a dungeon in spite of the DR.