Guild Wars 2

I agree, I think there should be more much more difficult content. I won’t lie, I’m absolutely terrible at this game, probably one of the worst out there and I still find more than enough content for me.

I do see regular posts and comments about things being too easy, standing in one spot using auto attack and so forth. It would be nice if there were more individually challenging events for those that want to exercise their skill. Champions are a nice thought, but especially now they are just getting mowed over. I’m not sure what the answer might be. Perhaps some scaling individual dungeons or something like that. I’d enjoy that setting the record for most wipes ever.

Something like beating that gimmick boss called Liadri should be needed to make legendary weapon.. Hope they will think about it in future with more legendary items.

Everytime i see a legendary user dying to basic bosses there i just laugh in their face..they don’t deserve to have one.

Personally i don’t like that archs for it as its temporary contest, instead they should reward us better. We are skritts and we doing that for shinies

The problem is entirely with how you determine what’s to be considered skillful play. There are so many different playstyles that use many different skills, that it’s hard to design content capable of being beaten within everyone’s preferred skills. So what you may see as complaints against it being challenging, may be more along the lines of unspoken complaints against forcing them to become skilled in a way they’re not interested in.

I think it’s reasonable to say that there are multiple ways of playing skillfully, and that it’s not necessarily unreasonable to want your particular form of skillful play to be viable in a scenario. Now, that’s not to mistake all playstyles as requiring skill, as not all really do, but I think where there’s a valid case for those that do require skill being invalidated as a result of a gimmick or something, that there is room for valid complaint.

Agreed. GW2’s community significantly consists of a group called ‘casuals’ who in my opinion are too lazy to do anything productive or challenging, or are either tight on time and want to hold back the game for selfish reasons, like not being left behind.
I believe Anet catered to both parties with the crown pavilion patch. Casuals downstairs mindlessly zerging while upstairs we have the more dedicated testing their skills.
I really do hope Anet continues this approach and even if the rewards may still be pretty sad, finally players can feel a sense of satisfaction.
Finally, dont be mistaken… I too have yet to beat liadri and play around an hour a day. The content should vary catering for all players not just the ‘omgz ascended gear too hard’ players.

kittena.3809:

Yet you feel entitled to difficult content that others can’t complete (including their rewards). Hypocrite much?

I don’t think that’s what he’s saying at all.

When it comes to challenging content people can’t complete, the most entitled think that they deserve the rewards even though they couldn’t do it, because the content ‘excludes casual players’ (well, that’s the most common excuse I’ve heard).

As a casual gamer myself, I simply accept if something is beyond my grasp, whether I lack the skill or the time to complete it. I don’t come to the forums asking Anet to change the rules because I’m excluded.

At the end of the day, I’m not excluded from the content. I can access the content, and I can try my best to complete said content. What I’m excluded from is the achievement and rewards if I don’t complete that content, and rightly so.

Otherwise, Anet might as well just give the achievement on the first try of the content, regardless of being able to do it or not, and be done with it.

Well hey, they tried. Beating Liadri is simply a matter of getting used to a pattern in Phase 1, then focusing on surviving while slowly ranged dpsing in Phase 2.

For the players who want a challenge, however, they have the 8orb achievement which requires a lot of patience and skill.

If you want her to be easier, then you need to improve (if you’re going to try to beat her, that is).

I agree with you. After about 25 attempts across 2 or 3 of my 80s, I beat Liadri. I didn’t use a guide, so the bulk of my attempts were me learning the pattern of the AoE. I really enjoyed the challenge of learning how to approach the fight. What I didn’t enjoy was being one-shotted. Instant failure upon making one mistake tends to discourage/enrage players, and I think that’s what has caused a lot of the complaints.

I also didn’t like how aegis wouldn’t block the AoE, but my shield abilities would. I don’t like abilities working inconsistently across content. (I understand where aegis would simply be too strong in this instant. I’m saying the “insta-kill” should have come in 2 or 3 quick pulses of damage. Then aegis could have been used to block one pulse.)

I enjoyed the challenge a few of the fights brought. I just think Anet should move away from one-shotting their players. From a new player’s perspective, it’s hard to see what you’ve done wrong when one little flash of color brings you from full health to downed.

I definitely want to see more challenging content from Anet, don’t get me wrong. But GW2 gets new players every day, and the Living Story stuff is open to everyone. Anet can’t forget that. I think if the fight with Liadri was more approachable (even if it was more difficult), you’d have fewer complaints about it.

I think the problem lies in that the content is temporary.
- When I played WoW I didn’t mind that I never really got into raids to get the good and awesome gear. The dungeons could provide content on my skill level if it was instanced content that I was looking for (I’m talking Vanilla and TBC here). Were the dungeons and raids temporary, I’d feel like I was being cheated of ever reaching that skill level (even if I’d never do the raid if it was permanent).

- I think that permanent content that requires skill to complete is more fair to do than for a player to feel that they need to better themselves in a limited amount of time. They get desperate and cry out… and I mean cry.
- MMO’s have gotten less mature players who thinks that if they can’t do it, then it must be unbalanced. “Something is wrong, because I’m definitely pro”… and no, if you can’t do it, you’re not pro. Then your tactics could do with improvement and you need to get out of your comfort zone.

Balancing a game has always been an issue, and the MMO’s and PvP games are suffering the most from this. Single player games can make different difficulties (easy, normal and hard) and in that way make their content accessible to all players.
- MMO’s and PvP games, however, require a different kind of balancing.
Two players with the same stats and same builds could seem imbalanced if one of the players is less experienced and the other is a hardcore competitive player.
One way to overcome this is to make some skills “noob-friendly”, meaning that they don’t require the player to stand in a particular spot and time the skill correctly to succeed. But it should also be so that the noob friendly skills, while seemingly overpowering, aren’t the best tactic to go with and that should make the players look for other tactics that are better and can counter the seemingly overpowering skills, thus we get into the counterplay aspect, but I won’t go into details here (I’m gonna write another of my "Lets talk: … " threads about balancing, so feel free to read that when I’m done with it).

TL;DR
- Permanent content can get away with being more difficult, while temporary makes players desperate since they need to improve their skills over a limited amount of time.
- My suggestion is to make the permanent content more skill based, while the temporary should focus on giving players new and enjoyable experiences (though I will say that if you don’t miss any story or lore by not being able to do certain challenges, then you’re probably just being whiney and need to learn that you’re not perfect in every way and be happy to know that you can still improve yourself).

Anyhoo, temporary content should be less skill based, probably.

darkace.8925:

But these also seems to be a vocal group (who knows how large they actually are?) who believe effort or desire, and not skill, should determine whether or not one is able to accomplish every achievement or obtain every reward.

I think we have a high number of players like that because they are who classic MMORPGs cater to. Telling players “you can achieve every single reward in the game as long as you play a bit more, no matter how unskilled you may be” is very smart in the context of a pay to play game – you can make grindy content (which is easy to design and keeps people busy for a very long time) and then get rich as players slowly acquire the rewards they want, paying a monthly fee the entire way.

I think many, if not most, of the GW2 players come from classic MMORPGs. They expected to find the same system here – receiving rewards for playing a lot, not for being skilled – and in many ways they did: farming Orr, farming CoF1, farming World Bosses… All of those are very, very easy, just time consuming, yet they were the best way to get all rewards in the game.

Now, for the first time, we have a (very small) reward that doesn’t cater to those players. Doing very easy content over and over doesn’t help someone kill Liadri. Which means, those players who have always been told that they can get everything by playing a lot – they have hit a wall. There’s something in their checklist they cannot tick just by playing a lot. It’s expected they would complain.

IMO, Liadri is great for the game. I’m not sure the majority of players like her, but I would love if more (and more) of the GW2 rewards were linked to things like that.

You can’t cater to both new players and veteran players with the same content.

You can’t cater to both casual completionist (wait what? apparently this is a thing) and hardcore completionists with the same content.

You can’t cater to entitled players and skilled players with the same content.

And yes, for some random reason, there are vocal casual completionists. I guess they’re just entitled players.

Remember, the Living Story used to cater to low levels, but the higher levels (even the casual completionists) complained that the content was too easy/fast/boring. Now, they cater to level 80 skilled players so upleveled/entitled/skill-less players find the content too hard/long/requires too much attention.

The whole issue of challenging content has been discussed repeatedly on these forums. Several solutions have been proposed to accommodate both ends of the spectrum. I think having a regular mode and a hard mode in this game would do wonders to allow players of different levels to experience the content and include challenge for those who like harder content. In the original guild wars the missions were set up that way and I think it worked out very well. Obviously the rewards would have to be increased for the harder version.

Some people will still complain about an easy/hard mode system, but the current set up isn’t working well. Time to try something new. I wonder why Anet doesn’t want to use this system in GW2. Or at least they haven’t expressed any plans to do so.

Totally agree, even as a crap player myself, while I like the general easiness of content, I do think there ought to always be some content in the game that not everyone can beat.

I especially think that so-called “Legendaries” ought to have been locked behind that type of content. As it is, eventually everyone in this game is going to have a “Legendary”, so the concept is nearly meaningless.

The problem with Liadri is the camera angles and the red circles not being visible enough (can’t even imagine being colour blind here). It’s not a matter of it being hard or easy. It’s just that it’s badly done. Asking for that to be fixed is being entitled?

Orange players VS Rock players

This topic is ridiculous, contrasting completely unrelated things. Skilled is the opposite of unskilled, entitled is the opposite of earned. There are entitled and honestly gainful people in every level and discipline.

Zanshin.5379:

The problem with Liadri is the camera angles and the red circles not being visible enough (can’t even imagine being colour blind here). It’s not a matter of it being hard or easy. It’s just that it’s badly done. Asking for that to be fixed is being entitled?

Asking for things like that isn’t, since they’re what makes content punishing and causes you to die beyond your control.

Asking for nerfs because it ‘excludes’ people is (Example 1,Example 2)

You know what also alienates people? WvW, PvP, PvE. All the content is not interchangeable. If you want PvE skins in PvP, you have to go to PvE, you can’t just play PvP (notably for the sPvP players and LS skins).

Conncept.7638:

Orange players VS Rock players

This topic is ridiculous, contrasting completely unrelated things. Skilled is the opposite of unskilled, entitled is the opposite of earned. There are entitled and honestly gainful people in every level and discipline.

Agreed.

If we absolutely must stratify the player base in this manner, then you are really looking at two very different defining criteria – stratification based on sense of entitlement and stratification based on level of skill. Having skill does not automatically mean that a player does not feel entitled just as a lack of skill does not mean they do feel entitled.

There’s a difference betwene challenging and cheap. And you shouldn’t have to develop nerd skills just to be able to keep up with these “challenges”.

darkace.8925:

The fact that some players have defeated Liadri says she can be defeated. The fact that many players are complaining that she’s an unfair fight says that defeating her requires skill.

The fact that some people have managed to pick out an ace on their first blind draw out of a deck of cards says that it is possible. The fact that many players are complaining that it is an unfair game says that drawing the ace requires skill.

Your logic in a nutshell.

Look, I’m all for challenging content, but not for content that punishes harshly and randomly (random illusion spawn instantly downs), obviates entire class mechanics (necromancer, ranger, mesmer), or is bugged to hell and back (the orbs being obstructed). The fact that you can die literally four seconds after entering the arena just exacerbates the issue.

Like the excuses for not being able to win Liadri – “Cheap”, “buggy”, “camera”, etc.

Back in the days the graphics and controls were bad, games glitchy.

I’m a bit depressed how I simply don’t see myself killing liadra while others find it a walk in the park.

But do I demand they nerf it so I can complete it? no.

Having said that, I do find that place pretty laggy for me, but then I know people who got every single achievement there while dealing with worse lag then me.

They are called achievement points not entitlement points and it is normal for a gmae like Guild wars to have achievements that only a small percentage of the people successfully complete. Completionists will just have to accept that and live with it. It took me 83 tries and 6 different builds to beat liadri, it was frustrating yes but it pushed me to evovle my play style. Try new tactics, watch a few videos and memorize the patterns. Once you get it, Liadri is kind of a joke.

Nick.6972:

Back in the days the graphics and controls were bad, games glitchy.

I agree but I kind of miss those days.

Everyone’s entitled to try all content to their heart’s desire. Nobody is entitled to complete any of it. The fact that some give up, is what gives it any meaning to the others. The fact that it takes skill, is what makes it an accomplishment. The fact that it took persistence, is how we feel we’ve earned it.

And the fact that it is only around for a few weeks, is what makes it wrong. I think that’s a serious reason for frustration.

So yes, by all means. More challenges. Real ones. Ones that half the people at least will give up on. With suiting rewards (minis and titles are nice I guess – not legendaries unless with alternatives, don’t wanna get people outright blocked in progress).

P.S. That’s all aside from the point of cheap mechanics, visual issues etc which are serious arguments to be made. Challenges in general should be difficult without such artificial difficulties; still, I don’t mind it being part of an occasional challenge.

It’ll return if the only reason for complaint is temporary content…

JustTrogdor.7892:

Nick.6972:

Back in the days the graphics and controls were bad, games glitchy.

I agree but I kind of miss those days.

O. M. G.

Anet has to add this to the game!

darkace.8925:

[snip]
That leaves us with two groups of players directly opposed to one another, and the developers cannot – no matter how much they’d like to – please both at once. They’re either going to release content that is easy enough for virtually anyone to complete or they’re going to release challenging content that leaves less-skilled players crying foul. Either way, someone’s going to feel alienated.[snip]

I respectfully disagree—Anet could please both groups—and I’d like to point out that the players complaining about the level of difficulty are not so much complaining about the level of difficulty so much as they are about its implementation.

It’s ‘hard’ to get a legendary weapon, because of the random component.
It’s ‘hard’ to beat Liadri because of so many factor’s out of the player’s control.

Anet could please both groups by providing hard content that can be mastered and overcome through player skill when it is applied to more non random and logical challenges, in less random environments.

darkace.8925:

That leaves us with two groups of players directly opposed to one another, and the developers cannot – no matter how much they’d like to – please both at once. They’re either going to release content that is easy enough for virtually anyone to complete or they’re going to release challenging content that leaves less-skilled players crying foul. Either way, someone’s going to feel alienated.

The developers should continue to do exactly what they’re doing now – release easy content and also release challenging content.

Casual players will enjoy the easy content. Challenge-seekers will enjoy the challenging content. And perpetual whiners will whine, but they would have whined anyway no matter what, and should always be ignored.

There are a myriad of ways that you can make easy content more difficult. You can remove or downgrade armor, you can use a non-optimal build, you can refuse to use some skills, or play a character you’re not experienced with. But I never see anyone do these suggestions because no one actually wants more difficult content. What players want is content that is just difficult enough that they can complete but others cant, so they can wear it as a trophy around their neck and brag about it. That kind of behavior should not be encouraged, at least not here.

If people want to chest thump and brag then let them go play WoW or one of its 100 offspring, why does GW2 have to cater to that mentality too?

“Time for a TRUE display of skills!” – E****l

Hard content is the way to go for me.

Despite the ping(cuz I live in Asia) and screen lags because my comp is not top-tier, I did it after losing 10+ times.
There’s still 8 orbs achievement I haven’t done yet because of the same reasons above, but I’ll keep trying as long as the content’s still here. And no, I won’t ask for nerfs and I don’t care if I can’t get it.

I’m not sure how devs decide which group to please but seemingly no matter which they choose, someone will complain. Someone will ALWAYS complain. So yeah, I don’t even..

darkace.8925:

That leaves us with two groups of players directly opposed to one another, and the developers cannot – no matter how much they’d like to – please both at once. They’re either going to release content that is easy enough for virtually anyone to complete or they’re going to release challenging content that leaves less-skilled players crying foul. Either way, someone’s going to feel alienated.

I think ANet has been doing a pretty good job of trying to put something in to please as many demographics as possible. It’s one of the things they’re doing right. It’s not just high-skill versus completionists either. There’s the WvW crowd, the group content crowd, RPers, and probably many more.

I think a lot of players are content to complete the content that appeals to them and that they can do, and leave off the content that doesn’t. Those who think that everything has to be aimed at their demographic are being unreasonable, and ANet knows this.

I expect ANet will continue to try to please as many groups as possible. However, the frequency with which any particular group sees content aimed at them is likely to vary based on how popular certain content offerings are. For instance, I’d bet money ANet is tracking how many people get the achievements for beating Liadri.

Peetee.9406:

What players want is content that is just difficult enough that they can complete but others cant, so they can wear it as a trophy around their neck and brag about it. That kind of behavior should not be encouraged, at least not here.

Why not?

Honestly, these are the only “achievements,” or “titles,” worth anything in a game.

That said, LFM Arah P1. Liadri Mini players only.

IndigoSundown.5419:

darkace.8925:

That leaves us with two groups of players directly opposed to one another, and the developers cannot – no matter how much they’d like to – please both at once. They’re either going to release content that is easy enough for virtually anyone to complete or they’re going to release challenging content that leaves less-skilled players crying foul. Either way, someone’s going to feel alienated.

I think ANet has been doing a pretty good job of trying to put something in to please as many demographics as possible. It’s one of the things they’re doing right. It’s not just high-skill versus completionists either. There’s the WvW crowd, the group content crowd, RPers, and probably many more.

I think a lot of players are content to complete the content that appeals to them and that they can do, and leave off the content that doesn’t. Those who think that everything has to be aimed at their demographic are being unreasonable, and ANet knows this.

I expect ANet will continue to try to please as many groups as possible. However, the frequency with which any particular group sees content aimed at them is likely to vary based on how popular certain content offerings are. For instance, I’d bet money ANet is tracking how many people get the achievements for beating Liadri.

If only they would revamp the WvW achievments to something that won’t take 8+years playing 8hours a day. If I want to QQ, those achievments are valid QQ material.

Julie Yann.5379:

IndigoSundown.5419:

darkace.8925:

That leaves us with two groups of players directly opposed to one another, and the developers cannot – no matter how much they’d like to – please both at once. They’re either going to release content that is easy enough for virtually anyone to complete or they’re going to release challenging content that leaves less-skilled players crying foul. Either way, someone’s going to feel alienated.

I think ANet has been doing a pretty good job of trying to put something in to please as many demographics as possible. It’s one of the things they’re doing right. It’s not just high-skill versus completionists either. There’s the WvW crowd, the group content crowd, RPers, and probably many more.

I think a lot of players are content to complete the content that appeals to them and that they can do, and leave off the content that doesn’t. Those who think that everything has to be aimed at their demographic are being unreasonable, and ANet knows this.

I expect ANet will continue to try to please as many groups as possible. However, the frequency with which any particular group sees content aimed at them is likely to vary based on how popular certain content offerings are. For instance, I’d bet money ANet is tracking how many people get the achievements for beating Liadri.

If only they would revamp the WvW achievments to something that won’t take 8+years playing 8hours a day. If I want to QQ, those achievments are valid QQ material.

Way too much time and effort? Heh. Reminds me of the PvP titles in Guild Wars. Afaik only a handful of people ever got the max Hero title for instance. ANet may not “make grindy games” but they are past masters at making insane grind for titles and such.

My problem with Liadri isn’t actualy the fight with Liadri.

It’s the design of the pavilion.

It’s rude players trampling over your corpse after you fail an attempt at her because they’re in a hurry to beat everyone else to an empty arena.

It’s having to waypoint back to the center and then having to run my kitten back up to the arenas.

It’s having the failing fights resulting in broken armor.

It’s having to pay teleport fees.

It’s the fact that the entire piece of content is time limited and won’t be coming back for quite a while.

It’s that I can’t take a break from it for a day, or a week, or a month and give it another try. I have to get it done by a certain date or I’ll miss out on it maybe forever.

I’m confident I can beat her fairly easily but all of the above is what kills the queens gauntlet for me. Not the actual fight.

Reikou.7068:

Peetee.9406:

What players want is content that is just difficult enough that they can complete but others cant, so they can wear it as a trophy around their neck and brag about it. That kind of behavior should not be encouraged, at least not here.

Why not?

Honestly, these are the only “achievements,” or “titles,” worth anything in a game.

That said, LFM Arah P1. Liadri Mini players only.

The Liadri fight isn’t actually hard though. It’s more tedious and persistence is what gets most people to finish it than anything having to do with skill.

True, having to res and run back every single time is much more annoying than the fight itself.

Just wondering am I considered entitled when my weaponswap gets a cooldown whenever I throw an orb because of a bugged Warrior trait?
Lots of complaints are based on stuff like this. If they are designing frustrating fights (with steep penalty for small mistake) they really should ensure that their incompetency doesn’t add an extra layer of frustration.

AtoBoss.2906:

Agreed. GW2’s community significantly consists of a group called ‘casuals’ who in my opinion are too lazy to do anything productive or challenging, or are either tight on time and want to hold back the game for selfish reasons, like not being left behind.
I believe Anet catered to both parties with the crown pavilion patch. Casuals downstairs mindlessly zerging while upstairs we have the more dedicated testing their skills.
I really do hope Anet continues this approach and even if the rewards may still be pretty sad, finally players can feel a sense of satisfaction.
Finally, dont be mistaken… I too have yet to beat liadri and play around an hour a day. The content should vary catering for all players not just the ‘omgz ascended gear too hard’ players.

There isn’t any reason to single out so-called “casuals”, however, as they are probably not all the ones complaining. Also, why should you call someone you don’t know “lazy” just because assumptions made on his/her gameplay based on hours played? Bet that many “lazy casuals” (in your view) do just fine on that challenge.

There are casuals that play pretty great, aren’t “lazy”, and don’t complain about petty stuff, enjoying the game for what it is-and some of them play a lot of hours too, but they don’t care for the so-called “hardcore” attitude, because for them it means nothing (nothing against being “hardcore” either, but why is being “casual” a negative, just because it isn’t “hardcore”/different than you?)

In fact, it’s possible that many “hardcore” farmers of CoF 1 (no offense intended) are some of the ones complaining. Are these people “lazy” too? Because they were supposedly “hardcore”, not “casuals”.

Again no personal attack intended, just food for thought-in short, it’s not wise to stereotype “casuals” as something inherently negative, accusing the whole casual GW2 community of crimes they may have never committed.

Why are people so focussed on beating Liadri anyway? All you get is a few AP and a mini. Most people seem to dump mini’s into their bank and forget about them.

Waar Kijk Je Naar.8713:

Why are people so focussed on beating Liadri anyway? All you get is a few AP and a mini. Most people seem to dump mini’s into their bank and forget about them.

The nature of some humans lol

Still yours the best post in the thread.

Star Ace.5207:

AtoBoss.2906:

Agreed. GW2’s community significantly consists of a group called ‘casuals’ who in my opinion are too lazy to do anything productive or challenging, or are either tight on time and want to hold back the game for selfish reasons, like not being left behind.
I believe Anet catered to both parties with the crown pavilion patch. Casuals downstairs mindlessly zerging while upstairs we have the more dedicated testing their skills.
I really do hope Anet continues this approach and even if the rewards may still be pretty sad, finally players can feel a sense of satisfaction.
Finally, dont be mistaken… I too have yet to beat liadri and play around an hour a day. The content should vary catering for all players not just the ‘omgz ascended gear too hard’ players.

There isn’t any reason to single out so-called “casuals”, however, as they are probably not all the ones complaining. Also, why should you call someone you don’t know “lazy” just because assumptions made on his/her gameplay based on hours played? Bet that many “lazy casuals” (in your view) do just fine on that challenge.

There are casuals that play pretty great, aren’t “lazy”, and don’t complain about petty stuff, enjoying the game for what it is-and some of them play a lot of hours too, but they don’t care for the so-called “hardcore” attitude, because for them it means nothing (nothing against being “hardcore” either, but why is being “casual” a negative, just because it isn’t “hardcore”/different than you?)

In fact, it’s possible that many “hardcore” farmers of CoF 1 (no offense intended) are some of the ones complaining. Are these people “lazy” too? Because they were supposedly “hardcore”, not “casuals”.

Again no personal attack intended, just food for thought-in short, it’s not wise to stereotype “casuals” as something inherently negative, accusing the whole casual GW2 community of crimes they may have never committed.

Theres 2 forms i know about to call people casuals and hardcore:
For time spent (most common in MMO but not in gaming).
For skill level.

Clearly in Liandri the adecuate deffinition is for skill level.
Its true that playing a lot may increase your skill, that isnt always the case; and more importantly if someone do only the more easiest parts or specializate in one, then he/she isnt progressing in skill much. And still even improving them, doesnt mean necesary you can compete with people that spent less time in GW2 but play other kind of games that need much more reflex and fast thinking.

That said, more time spent isnt equal to skills and in Liandri skills matter. Witch is what Anet wanted, and suceeded, maybe not perfectly, but yes they did it well.

Banquetto.9521:

darkace.8925:

That leaves us with two groups of players directly opposed to one another, and the developers cannot – no matter how much they’d like to – please both at once. They’re either going to release content that is easy enough for virtually anyone to complete or they’re going to release challenging content that leaves less-skilled players crying foul. Either way, someone’s going to feel alienated.

The developers should continue to do exactly what they’re doing now – release easy content and also release challenging content.

Casual players will enjoy the easy content. Challenge-seekers will enjoy the challenging content. And perpetual whiners will whine, but they would have whined anyway no matter what, and should always be ignored.

We have a winner !

You cannot please all of the players all of the time, so you take turns.

Ashen.2907:

Banquetto.9521:

darkace.8925:

That leaves us with two groups of players directly opposed to one another, and the developers cannot – no matter how much they’d like to – please both at once. They’re either going to release content that is easy enough for virtually anyone to complete or they’re going to release challenging content that leaves less-skilled players crying foul. Either way, someone’s going to feel alienated.

The developers should continue to do exactly what they’re doing now – release easy content and also release challenging content.

Casual players will enjoy the easy content. Challenge-seekers will enjoy the challenging content. And perpetual whiners will whine, but they would have whined anyway no matter what, and should always be ignored.

We have a winner !

You cannot please all of the players all of the time, so you take turns.

Or take a little more time, so you can release both types of content at the same time. It allows their QA to identify more issues with the content that’s ready anyways.

Reikou.7068:

Peetee.9406:

What players want is content that is just difficult enough that they can complete but others cant, so they can wear it as a trophy around their neck and brag about it. That kind of behavior should not be encouraged, at least not here.

Why not?

Honestly, these are the only “achievements,” or “titles,” worth anything in a game.

That said, LFM Arah P1. Liadri Mini players only.

Because you’re deriving happiness from the misfortune of other players.

Whether or not someone receives a mini or an achievement does not affect you. To deny them happiness just for the sake of your bragging rights is not good behavior.

The title of this thread should not be “entitled players vs skilled players”, it should be “regular players vs jerks”.

Peetee.9406:

Reikou.7068:

Peetee.9406:

What players want is content that is just difficult enough that they can complete but others cant, so they can wear it as a trophy around their neck and brag about it. That kind of behavior should not be encouraged, at least not here.

Why not?

Honestly, these are the only “achievements,” or “titles,” worth anything in a game.

That said, LFM Arah P1. Liadri Mini players only.

Because you’re deriving happiness from the misfortune of other players.

Whether or not someone receives a mini or an achievement does not affect you. To deny them happiness just for the sake of your bragging rights is not good behavior.

The title of this thread should not be “entitled players vs skilled players”, it should be “regular players vs jerks”.

Its the same as quitting the others the content they want, you are quitting them happiness.

Waar Kijk Je Naar.8713:

Why are people so focussed on beating Liadri anyway? All you get is a few AP and a mini. Most people seem to dump mini’s into their bank and forget about them.

It is the realization that I’m not the best player in the game that hurts.

okay you can stop laughing now, I’m actually serious.

Wukunlin.8461:

Waar Kijk Je Naar.8713:

Why are people so focussed on beating Liadri anyway? All you get is a few AP and a mini. Most people seem to dump mini’s into their bank and forget about them.

It is the realization that I’m not the best player in the game that hurts.

okay you can stop laughing now, I’m actually serious.

Train!!!

This whole event just sounded lame so I haven’t even gone in there yet.

…and everyone knows Guang..hulay… Pffaaah… whatever is name is,
is the uber best top lel PvE player evar. Why did we need a contest for it?

They tried to cater to both kinds of players in this patch.

The balloons, the zerg downstairs in the pavilion, not to mention the champ loot for the casual players and the Gauntlet for people who want to try their skill.

They even separated the achievements in two categories so that the one is not dependent on the other.
That was a very good direction to take with the Living Story

Honestly I don’t know what people want anymore