I don’t know if you’re really thinking that through. Remember, one of the boons is Protection, which cuts incoming damage by 33%. The end result is that the Lyssa rune user might get 8 boons and the attacking Warrior might get a 24% bonus to damage, but the effect of Protection still mitigates that to the point where the Kill Shot does less damage than it would if there were no boons (and thus no Protection) up.
Now, if someone found a way to get every boon except Protection on themselves, then they might be in for some pain.
I don’t know if you’re really thinking that through. Remember, one of the boons is Protection, which cuts incoming damage by 33%. The end result is that the Lyssa rune user might get 8 boons and the attacking Warrior might get a 24% bonus to damage, but the effect of Protection still mitigates that to the point where the Kill Shot does less damage than it would if there were no boons (and thus no Protection) up.
Now, if someone found a way to get every boon except Protection on themselves, then they might be in for some pain.
Another way to read that is protection is the only useful boon now (against boon hate warriors anyway) and loses effectiveness for each additional boon. With the amount of aoe boons going out in this game, this sounds like a horrible idea. Well, maybe regeneration is ok too, as it will outheal the increase in damage still (except for bursts…..).
Please don’t buff me with might/fury/swiftness now, thanks. Yeah, thanks for that extra 9% incoming damage homey….. Having allies apply debuffs to their group…… ho….leeee…kitten…. Who came up with this genius plan?
I love all of the people crying over how warriors might now have the opportunity to cut away some of the bunker builds’ huge survivability after being totally ill-equipped to deal with them for all this time.
No really, I love it. As a warrior, this is sweet justice and I’ve been waiting.
I don’t know if you’re really thinking that through. Remember, one of the boons is Protection, which cuts incoming damage by 33%. The end result is that the Lyssa rune user might get 8 boons and the attacking Warrior might get a 24% bonus to damage, but the effect of Protection still mitigates that to the point where the Kill Shot does less damage than it would if there were no boons (and thus no Protection) up.
Now, if someone found a way to get every boon except Protection on themselves, then they might be in for some pain.
Another way to read that is protection is the only useful boon now (against boon hate warriors anyway) and loses effectiveness for each additional boon. With the amount of aoe boons going out in this game, this sounds like a horrible idea. Well, maybe regeneration is ok too, as it will outheal the increase in damage still (except for bursts…..).
Please don’t buff me with might/fury/swiftness now, thanks. Yeah, thanks for that extra 9% incoming damage homey….. Having allies apply debuffs to their group…… ho….leeee…kitten…. Who came up with this genius plan?
If that’s the case, our minor traits in the alchemy tree have just turned into suicide by warriors. You might now end up seeing bunker engies go more in the invention tree line instead of alchemy treeline if boon hate does end up being a threat.
I don’t know if you’re really thinking that through. Remember, one of the boons is Protection, which cuts incoming damage by 33%. The end result is that the Lyssa rune user might get 8 boons and the attacking Warrior might get a 24% bonus to damage, but the effect of Protection still mitigates that to the point where the Kill Shot does less damage than it would if there were no boons (and thus no Protection) up.
Now, if someone found a way to get every boon except Protection on themselves, then they might be in for some pain.
Another way to read that is protection is the only useful boon now (against boon hate warriors anyway) and loses effectiveness for each additional boon. With the amount of aoe boons going out in this game, this sounds like a horrible idea. Well, maybe regeneration is ok too, as it will outheal the increase in damage still (except for bursts…..).
Please don’t buff me with might/fury/swiftness now, thanks. Yeah, thanks for that extra 9% incoming damage homey….. Having allies apply debuffs to their group…… ho….leeee…kitten…. Who came up with this genius plan?
If that’s the case, our minor traits in the alchemy tree have just turned into suicide by warriors. You might now end up seeing bunker engies go more in the invention tree line instead of alchemy treeline if boon hate does end up being a threat.
Engineers don’t have as many options for protection as for other boons, and even those options are very short duration compared to the uptime on most every other boon.
They are hardly the only class that will be hurt, I just used that example because it is a skill that would give a 12% increase in damage received (at +3% per boon), and for the boons it does give, would make this skill less than worthless in any fight with a boon hate warrior.
On my elementalist, I don’t run bunker build, my uptime on protection sucks compared to every other boon (minus stability) but I do have several boons most of the time. This is another nerf intended to weaken bunkers against damage dealers, but it’s actually making everything except full bunker less viable. Gotta stat for more protection uptime now just to survive, bunker build here I come (just kidding, more like elementalist retirement home and warrior reform school here I come….).
Hats off to all the ones who stood before me, and taught a fool to ride.
People are seriously blowing this out of proportion. The Necro has had tons of boon punishment since the game began and has never been overpowered in PvP except in beta, where they were an insanely… good… bunker. And there boon punishment was (and still is) largely useless.
This may help against the bunker problem, or it may make a new OP class, or it may do nothing at all. The third is most likely in my opinion.
It won’t be too bad. As soon as you pop the boons a thief will try and steal them or a necromancer will corrupt them or something like that will happen.
I don’t have opinions. I only have facts I can’t adequately prove.
People are seriously blowing this out of proportion. The Necro has had tons of boon punishment since the game began and has never been overpowered in PvP except in beta, where they were an insanely… good… bunker. And there boon punishment was (and still is) largely useless.
This may help against the bunker problem, or it may make a new OP class, or it may do nothing at all. The third is most likely in my opinion.
Necros/mes simply take away your boons. But you aren’t punished for having them. Now, you’re getting punished for having multiple boons. It’s as if your discouraging boon-based builds.
Don’t disturb me, I have a cat in me at the moment.
I hate how people are crying over the boon trait without actually knowing the exact numbers when factoring which trait line it is from, and which traits it would replace.
We are all doomed. Soon Warriors can invest deep (probably) in one trait-line to get 6-12% (my estimation) more damage when there are traits with constant 10% damage boost.
People are seriously blowing this out of proportion. The Necro has had tons of boon punishment since the game began and has never been overpowered in PvP except in beta, where they were an insanely… good… bunker. And there boon punishment was (and still is) largely useless.
This may help against the bunker problem, or it may make a new OP class, or it may do nothing at all. The third is most likely in my opinion.
Necros/mes simply take away your boons. But you aren’t punished for having them. Now, you’re getting punished for having multiple boons. It’s as if your discouraging boon-based builds.
Uh, no they don’t, how much have you played a Necromancer? Necros have abilities that take your boons and turn them in to conditions, that’s punishment for having boons. Additionally, Necros can turn boons into conditions, take those conditions, and then consume them for really really impressive heals.
Mesmers have abilities which remove boons and place them on allies, that’s boon punishment, your enemy gets more powerful because you are using boons, and you are getting weaker. But honestly the mesmers has so many jacked up defensive mechanics these abilities are almost completely ignored. Why lower someone’s damage when you can just mitigate it completely?
One thing to keep in mind is that Boon Hate will be 30 into the Discipline line….I dont know of any warriors in my guild that run that far into the line.
The only time this will be beneficial to the point that its OP is having one or two warriors in WvW specifically looking for players with a ton of boons on.
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One thing to keep in mind is that Boon Hate will be 30 into the Discipline line….I dont know of any warriors in my guild that run that far into the line.
The only time this will be beneficial to the point that its OP is having one or two warriors in WvW specifically looking for players with a ton of boons on.
I think what they’re trying to do is make it useful in SPvP for anti-bunkering, not sure if it will work, but we’ll see I guess. I think it’ll be useful against Ele bunkers, because they by default stack might and other boons, but Guardian bunkers are only dependent on regen and Protection.
But where did you hear about it being in the discipline line? It’ll be completely bleeding useless there for an anti-bunker build. It needs to be in in either Strength or Arms, that way it can work off a condition build.
How many of you actually have played with the new trait and made a build around it yet? How about we test it out before we play the jump to conclusions card.
The sky is falling a different warrior build might be viable!
Even with the full 27% boost, one of those is a -33% reduction in damage, since protection is strong as kitten. Finding it hard to feel sympathy. =p
The boon duration for lyssa’s runes last only 5 secs. Its not a big deal, since one doesn’t have to use the set. For guardian however, its a big deal. The majority of guardian skills provide boons, so now they will effectively debuff themselves against boon hate warriors.
I don’t have a problem with counter builds, however I have a problem with the lack of choice in gw2 compared to the original. If a warrior spec boon hate or unblockables, I could just change to something different to counter that build. In gw2 this isn’t the case and guardian players will be stuck debuffing themselves until the devs decide to do something about it.
Its probably a good opportunity to look at how they can start introducing some variety with each class.
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People are forgetting that you have to invest 30 into discipline to get boon hate, which is arguably too much investment for the return. You’d be missing out on a lot of much better traits in the first two lines by doing that. Reality is that this will change nothing until they make the secondary boost for the Discipline line something useful (+3% burst damage is laughable).
While they’re at it, they’re going to need to make the Versatile Power minor trait more useful. 1 stack of Might on weapon switch is downright unfortunate.
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The boon duration for lyssa’s runes last only 5 secs. Its not a big deal, since one doesn’t have to use the set. For guardian however, its a big deal. The majority of guardian skills provide boons, so now they will effectively debuff themselves against boon hate warriors.
I don’t have a problem with counter builds, however I have a problem with the lack of choice in gw2 compared to the original. If a warrior spec boon hate or unblockables, I could just change to something different to counter that build. In gw2 this isn’t the case and guardian players will be stuck debuffing themselves until the devs decide to do something about it.
Its probably a good opportunity to look at how they can start introducing some variety with each class.
After this long of being sick of all of the brainless boon bunker builds, I’m okay with guardians taking a hurting until Anet figures out an alternative. They can spend a little time feeling like warriors. The next guardians I see in WvW expecting to face tank my high damage with little effort like before are in for a very rude awakening.
The boon duration for lyssa’s runes last only 5 secs. Its not a big deal, since one doesn’t have to use the set. For guardian however, its a big deal. The majority of guardian skills provide boons, so now they will effectively debuff themselves against boon hate warriors.
I don’t have a problem with counter builds, however I have a problem with the lack of choice in gw2 compared to the original. If a warrior spec boon hate or unblockables, I could just change to something different to counter that build. In gw2 this isn’t the case and guardian players will be stuck debuffing themselves until the devs decide to do something about it.
Its probably a good opportunity to look at how they can start introducing some variety with each class.
After this long of being sick of all of the brainless boon bunker builds, I’m okay with guardians taking a hurting until Anet figures out an alternative. They can spend a little time feeling like warriors. The next guardians I see in WvW expecting to face tank my high damage with little effort like before are in for a very rude awakening.
But yes, variety would be nice.
Guardians go bunker in pvp because the other specs just aren’t very good. They can do damage yes, but its dps, not burst. Traditionally in pvp, dps is far inferior to burst damage. Another problem is, with guardian smart players just run away from them. So you end up not being able to do damage. With no valid ranged weapon option, guards tend to get forced into a bunker role.
In pve its different, mobs do not run away and tend to face tank the players. So guardian’s other specs are ok.
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Guardians go bunker in pvp because the other specs just aren’t very good. They can do damage yes, but its dps, not burst. Traditionally in pvp, dps is far inferior to burst damage. Another problem is, with guardian smart players just run away from them. So you end up not being able to do damage. With no valid ranged weapon option, guards tend to get forced into a bunker role.
In pve its different, mobs do not run away and tend to face tank the players. So guardian’s other specs are ok.
Eles go DD Bunker for the same reason, nothing else to do in PvP, and they’re getting gutted for it. Most people that pick up an Ele do not imagine tanking when doing so, and are quite disappointed when they find that’s all they can do.
The build needs nerfs, I’m not denying that and I main an Ele, but doing so without any buffs anywhere JUST before a hiatus on PvP balance is incredibly short-sighted on part of the devs.
Then more changes are necessary – and coming. Warriors get stuck with awful PvP for the longest time, but when they finally get something to deal with the comparatively OP nonsense all of the other classes have to offer, people act like the sky is falling. Oh no! One of the tankiest classes in the game might take varying amounts of extra damage from boon hating warriors who have to invest 30 points into a single trait line! Elementalists might not be able to go invulnerable and fully restore themselves or run from a fight easily when they screw up!
Then more changes are necessary – and coming. Warriors get stuck with awful PvP for the longest time, but when they finally get something to deal with the comparatively OP nonsense all of the other classes have to offer, people act like the sky is falling. I find it hilarious.
Yes and this is the problem “getting stuck with a spec”. There was no such thing in gw1.
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The reason is because ANET definition of a warrior, is a class that cannot deal with enemy boons or conditions, so it must go through them and get help from alies to remove its own conditions. This was stated long ago. I’m glad they are finally addressing this.
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The reason is because ANET definition of a warrior, is a class that cannot deal with enemy boons or conditions, so it must go through them and get help from alies to remove its own conditions. This was stated long ago. I’m glad they are finally addressing this.
Yes this is true, but they also state:
Guardian
The Guardian is a heavy armor class who relies on boons to make up for their low levels of innate health. They focus on area control and punishing enemies for the position on the battlefield. We want them to feel very powerful when their boons are active, but if those boons are removed, they will start to feel pressure.They can remove conditions more easily than the Warrior, but share the Warrior’s need to be in melee range to dole out maximum damage.
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I guess it’s the difference between “very powerful” and “overly powerful”. A fully boosted boon hate damage buff is still less than what protection offers. I’m sure it’s not the end of the world. And if it proves to be too much, well, they’ll change to something else. Warriors have had to deal with the bunker guardian crap for ages now. I’m sure the guardian community can survive being steamrolled for a month or less by warriors in the unlikely event that comes to pass. They’re still in the process of tweaking things.
The point is that a boon should be a positive modifier while it’s on a character, not buffing enemy damage. As an ele, all of my builds rely on boons, bunker or not, to work well. That’s just how the class was made. So that would pretty much be a global survivability nerf if it’s introduced as a trait, and that usually just makes people bunker more.
Of course that’s an “if”. Hopefully it’ll just be a new mechanic to a skill or two, but I didn’t watch the full SotG, so idk if they said what it’ll be. Also, it won’t be too much concern for meta if it’s only given to warriors, seeing as they’re one of the weaker pvp classes atm anyway, so they’ll just finally get a place.
I was under the assumption that the boon hate extra damage thing will pretty much just be a warrior deal, so boons don’t become some sort of hindrance like people are terrified they will be. Necromancers can already corrupt a full stack of boons into a horrible disaster of conditions, so it’s not like this is a completely new thing.
I can’t believe they’re going through with “boon hate.” The thieve’s change is interesting. It’s a bit of an arbitrary addition to the set but it’s at least going to change the playstyle. Increasing warrior dps (through a trait no less) to fix the issue with boon stacking is not only unimaginative but also does very little to address the issue; it’s attempting to address an issue where boon classes are build-locked into a playstyle that involves stacking boons by locking warriors into a build trait. Eles and guardians can’t even fight normally without having at least 2-3 boons on their character and party members at a time. Is their intent to discourage these professions from doing things?
Engineers don’t have as many options for protection as for other boons, and even those options are very short duration compared to the uptime on most every other boon.
They are hardly the only class that will be hurt, I just used that example because it is a skill that would give a 12% increase in damage received (at +3% per boon), and for the boons it does give, would make this skill less than worthless in any fight with a boon hate warrior.
On my elementalist, I don’t run bunker build, my uptime on protection sucks compared to every other boon (minus stability) but I do have several boons most of the time. This is another nerf intended to weaken bunkers against damage dealers, but it’s actually making everything except full bunker less viable. Gotta stat for more protection uptime now just to survive, bunker build here I come (just kidding, more like elementalist retirement home and warrior reform school here I come….).
Protection injection. A warrior should not be anywhere near you unless he disables you first. That disable should proc protection injection.
The only boon hate thieves gained is that flanking strike steals a boon instead of just deleting it and the placement of destruction of the empowered means warriors are most likely giving up a fixed 10% damage trait to get it. I don’t really expect to see warriors or thieves use their boon hate anywhere other than bunker busting in tpvp.
Here’s my impression, just based off reading posts.
Anet seems to want people into the lesser used builds in order to “diversify” the builds. But in the process, they end up destroying (or removing altogether) the most used builds. The end result is that the class affected now has less (viable) builds available for them compared to when they started.
