Guild Wars 2

Zephyr Lee.2491:

This isn’t Arena net’s fault.

It is the player base fault, nothing you can really do about it

The mechanics will condition the community.

It’d be nice if the max level cap was 20, just long enough to teach you the mechanics of the game. And you spent most of the game as max level, just exploring, gathering new abilities, capturing elites and so on. That sounds familiar, though.

ive just seen this right now, asking if fully level 80 and exotic and offered to take someone else place in my party…. ofc we are all so that didnt work out for him, but i doubt everyone is exotic and this situation can be very realistic.

Malvagite.3254:

you dont have grandmaster traits

gotta speak up here — as a necro, none of our 30-point traits are really that compelling. for a long, long time i ran 10/20/20/10/10 — it was the strongest condition build for everything really, i only swapped because i felt the coming Mark of Evasion nerf.. which is a shame, really, because it was very interesting gameplay IMO.
Overall I’m ~100 cond dmg higher now at 10/30/20/0/10, but honestly no stronger or weaker — just a little less versatile.

30 point traits? maybe for some classes, but don’t speak too broadly.. for at least 1 class there’s really no stand-out must-have 30 point traits.

chuckle … I can only chuckle when I read “elitists” write so seriously about how “great” they are with their “top-gears” and how they will only play with equally “great players” who are also “top-geared,” while all the while looking down at the pitiful masses who have not achieved their “greatness.”

um … helloo, it’s a video game! lol.

Genesis.5169:

I don’t understand you people.
Maximizing you chances of success is bad.
If you not getting into a party make your own is that so hard?

Why do you casuals always demand that the game caters to you every want and need…

Don’t blame the casuals for the idea of not requiring elitist bullkitten conditions to run dungeons. I’m not a casual, but neither am I a zerger wanting to finish everything before everyone else just to be able to complain that the end game is boring or too easy.

Dungeons are for everyone, except the latest one that is. Screening players due to gear for dungeons that eveyone (read twinked full exotic uber toons) is saying are too easy is just antisocial. I’m not saying accept everyone, but a helping hand to a newbie dungeon runner isn’t the end of the world, it’s actually a social kind of thing to do. Unless of course you are playing WoW in which case kitten’em lowbies are the scum of the earth This ISN’T WoW tho, nor should it be a WoW wannabe.

Making a party isn’t hard, running a dungeon as party leader when you haven’t done so is frustrating. It’s nice to have someone who has actually completed several runs and is familiar with the mechanics to give a hand. It will take more time, there will be deaths, but in the end there’s a completion and just maybe someone will have learned enough to lead sucessful runs in the future.
Unfortunately a large part of that player base wouldn’t stop at the side of the road to help someone who has a flat tire, or a kid who fell off their bike and needs help. It says something about our society today not just in the gaming community. Thankfully there are still some decent folks willing to help the newer, casual and or laid back players not really worried about fast leveling or seeing all the content in 3 months

Also your same question could be reworded as why do the 10% (added a 0 for good measure) zerger elite base players demand that the game should cater to their every want and need??

Do we have any idea yet when Difficulty resets for each character? I assume it has to reset, or everyone would hit the wall and not be able to play the dungeon anymore unless they find some way to boost their power.

I do know that Difficulty level for a group is based on the average difficulty level of all the characters in the group. Assuming that the average rounds up at some point, 4 level 2s may be able to add a level 1 and still have a group level 2.

So much potential for ire and disaster here, I really hope Arenanet knows what they are doing and will quickly react to technical and community issues that arise from this new “feature”.

Its based on the person with the lowest difficulty actually.

WoW is all about tiered gated content. They want to attract that population, ergo this entire new system is built around exactly that. What, you thought GW2 was about bringing players together? What on earth gave you that idea?

Personally, as long as I have at least two guildies on voice chat, I don’t really care about the pugs as long as they aren’t terrible. If they can rival one of my Illusions in usefulness, that is good enough for me in most cases. If they are interesting, a bit social or interested in learning/discussing related topics that is a bonus.

However I have as of yet, refused to do any dungeons if guildies (or former pug’s we’ve friend listed) don’t make up the majority of the party, and even then I would greatly prefer not to have to pug for two slots in the party… so in a way I am highly discriminatory about who makes up the party, but in other ways I am more carefree (when I am confident we can three/four man the dungeon and pugs will at worst be extra targets).

As for the trend for discriminating on gear or what have you, when this game becomes a grind for stats that is exactly what is going to happen, you can’t blame the players for the incentives Anet has put into the game. I’m already annoyed a bit if we have to pug for FotM and the pug doesn’t allow us to select a higher difficulty… sadly, that’s just the way that the post-SWG-NGE-anniversary version of GW2 is going to be.

Casuals: How dare they not do 100% of content for casuals, this is ridicilious! MUST BE BROUGHT DOWN!

Non-Casuals: Let us have this small tiny piece of content to do hardcore and hard stuff and push the limits.

Casuals: NOOOO! I CANT SO YOU SHOULDNT EITHER!

About people looking for group:

Hardcore: I have my friends and if i need a pug i’ll ask for a good gear/skill one.

Casual: I want to join and leech any group anytime even when i have no friends to do the dungeons.

That’s how all this seems to me. And i am neither hardcore nor casual.. i can do both depending on my mood. Thank god i made FRIENDS and joined a GUILD on a MMO so i don’t get effected if people don’t like me as a pug.

I didnt get into the stat gear grind part because..well..there is a thread for that.

And this is why I whole-heartedly believe dungeons should scale down difficulty wise to the amount of players in the group.
IE: Teams of 2, 3, 4 and solo players should be able to run through and complete dungeons. You should not have to rely on a group of 5 to complete them because you run into issues as the original poster described. Or you have people quit half-way through. Or they boot you during the instance. The only good thing they did was no gear check. You can easily lie.

If Anet wanted to make every job the “trinity” rolled into one, there shouldn’t be such a mass reliance on other players to complete a huge portion of the game. I would much rather run dungeons with one or two other people I know I can rely on not to boot me or quit than people I can’t. Till then, I’ll wait on doing dungeons.

Saw my first…

lf2m ranged dps fom2 lvl80 w/exotics only.link gear

Messaged them, asking if serious because I was on level ‘2’, was told they’re totally serious.

Dominae.3146:

Saw my first…

lf2m ranged dps fom2 lvl80 w/exotics only.link gear

Messaged them, asking if serious because I was on level ‘2’, was told they’re totally serious.

Haven’t seen any of that. One time I saw something similar a week or so ago and most of LA just laughed at the guy.

I’m interested to see what the higher level fractals require, however.

tyu.9470:

Non-Casuals: Let us have this small tiny piece of content to do hardcore and hard stuff and push the limits.

You wanna push limits, try doing harder and harder content in the SAME gear. Getting better gear doesn’t mean you’re doing any better, it means you don’t HAVE TO do any better. Your gear is carrying you.

warmonkey.8013:

tyu.9470:

Non-Casuals: Let us have this small tiny piece of content to do hardcore and hard stuff and push the limits.

You wanna push limits, try doing harder and harder content in the SAME gear. Getting better gear doesn’t mean you’re doing any better, it means you don’t HAVE TO do any better. Your gear is carrying you.

This. It always makes me laugh at all the bads who think accomplishing something because of the numbers on their gear makes them skillful and hardcore. No, it just makes you a hamster.

Oh I love this ascended gear debacle. I’m going to try to be even more elitist with my dungeon runner group. We’re on Level 4 now haha.

Zyro.7416:

hey there forumers,
i have notices that the users are being more picky by the day when it comes to making groups or parties. especially for dungeons. i have been denied for it many times cause i am not level 80 (while the dungeon is for 35 and up). this is making me quite angry. i shoudnt have a hard time getting a party together or joining one, since i already have the required level.

but it’s getting worse; since the new ‘lost shores’ dungeon is released, all i see is people asking for level 80 with exotic armor. this makes me feel left out. i might not have the best of the best, but that doesn’t mean i’m worthless. thanks to this i will barely be able to do any dungeon untill i reached the end-game. they seem to forget that everyone is scaled up(or)down to thesame level

i am curious what your oppinion is on this. do you find it a good thing, a bad thing. are you overlooking users with lowers levels?

Considering that most of the people probably asking are like scaled to 5 or higher already. In which case the level 80 exotics are desirable…. especially in a pug in these dungeons… because they are not simple tank and spanks many of them require communication and people not dieing to stupid things, or screwing up repeatedly.

The same goes for gear as you progress in scale it does get harder… things hit much harder.

A level 80 fully geared can take the hits much better then a 35 scaled up, not only that you are missing vital traits and pretty much 50 levels worth of extra stats just through traits alone, then add on top of that skill points that you also dont have.

It’s perfectly logical for them to be picky these dungeons take a fair bit of time and you don’t want one person to ruin it for you based on something like just not being able to survive…. no matter how skilled you are. Because you cant be replaced if you your holding the group back…. they have to start again with a new person, and so do you hence your time and theirs was wasted.

And besides that… after this weekend you won’t even be able to enter unless your 80. So really who cares? go in and do your first tier maybe second if you can get a group that will take such a low level. But you can’t blame them for not taking you or being picky. its their group they can choose who they want to take with them, just like you chose players to play on your team in sports in real life. I am not sure where this self entitlement comes from now days that others HAVE to play with you or they are bad people… but at 35 regardless of being scaled up you are severely lacking in both traits, skill points, and gear in general. Its why low levels get one shot in WvW for 25k crits. Same thing applys here.

Imagine how fun this will be months and months down the line, when full ascended is released, and most people start requiring full ascended with as much anti-agony as possible to even join a party for level 1.

This is the time I can say, I TOLD YOU SO.

1. Adding the new gear for stats = gear treadmill.

2. Adding the new gear for stats = LFG madness and rejection – Colin said this wasn’t fun, why is it there then?…

3. Grind is grind and will always be grind, this new gear is nothing else but grind and repeat the dungeon over and over and over and over and… wait did i say over?

Yep, nothing of what was initially planned.

Sucks right?

Not fun. Not fun at all.

Don’t get me wrong, the dungeons are fun, though the new gear with new stats will and is messing it all up.

Then do the Dungeon for fun.
Make your own party find people as casual as you are and do it.

It’s not that hard. Unless you want to be group with the people who want to win and grind in the most efficient way because of the gear. But then you would be benefiting off the “gear treadmill”.

LFM FotM, guardian + 1 other, exotics or better, must have completed frac 1/2 or we will kick you, pst!

You could see this coming from a mile away. The only way you can’t have prejudice is to have everyone equal, all of the time. Anytime there are differences, it can even just be perceived differences, then you will have people being selective. It is up to the designers of the game to try to mitigate that but it will always be there sadly.

let them. I never plan to do that dungeon crap again.

every game that has a dungeon system ends up having this happen and theres no avoiding it. there will be people who think they’re too good to help others learn, and others who think they deserve to be carried along.
its petty much the way the gaming world works. your best bet is to either find/form a guild of like minded and skilled people and work with them. then, once you learn to how do dungeons with ease, dont forget the fact that everyone is a noob at one point in time. and that this is just a game and holds no real value in the real world.

start your own group? ask friends or guildees?
that’s what they’re there for…

It’s a progression dungeon….. You want people who know what to do so you minimize the possibility of not getting that. Just because you’re scaled up to 80 doesn’t mean you’re on par with a full geared 80. Chances are you won’t have access to the following:
1) Gear bonuses (i.e: 3rd stat)
2) Traits for survivability or dps
3) Experiance, honestly if I have to choose between an unknown lowbie and an 80. I’m going with the 80 to minimize the risk.

It’s going to get more specialize. Your not running higher level without specific spec and people working together to synergize there builds. Honestly if you think otherwise your only kidding yourself into a nieve delusion.

warmonkey.8013:

Malvagite.3254:

you dont have grandmaster traits

gotta speak up here — as a necro, none of our 30-point traits are really that compelling. for a long, long time i ran 10/20/20/10/10 — it was the strongest condition build for everything really, i only swapped because i felt the coming Mark of Evasion nerf.. which is a shame, really, because it was very interesting gameplay IMO.
Overall I’m ~100 cond dmg higher now at 10/30/20/0/10, but honestly no stronger or weaker — just a little less versatile.

30 point traits? maybe for some classes, but don’t speak too broadly.. for at least 1 class there’s really no stand-out must-have 30 point traits.

it doesnt matter if its 30 point traits. the point is he doesnt have enough trait points to have the survivability of a higher level character.

nor does he have access to 3 stat armor.

many encounters are run through and low level players die more when running through. god forbid they die and have to run back to the group solo, its even worse.

Dogblaster.6713:

Artemis Noir.3804:

While I can certainly understand that people prefer a smooth experience when grouping… I think some of the problem is that these experienced players have forgotten that once upon a time they were nubs too. Presumably friends, guild-mates and random strangers took the time to show them the ropes…..
Kara people.. karma.
What goes around should come around.

Just wow .. These arguments are sad.

I just love this, people who call an argument sad when they are not capable of formulating a real rebuttal. rolleyes
As somebody else stated, it’s simply that you don’t like to be reminded of the fact that once upon a time you knew nothing. And going by some of your statements I’m beginning to think that you know more about gear stats than you do about actual skill,

1) Upscaled character is not the same as a level 80. Get over it. Make your own group if you want to run through casually, nobody’s stopping you.

2) I don’t blame people for being picky. It’s very frustrating running through dungeons with PUGs when most people spec for DPS and have no support skills. Tack on low level characters who don’t really perform the same and it’s just a lot easier to say ‘lfm 80+’.

“Unlike the other dungeons, your party can be any level. We’ve employed World vs. World-style sidekicking to make this dungeon accessible to all players. But keep in mind, our aim was to challenge level 80 players. Going in at low levels is not for the faint of heart!”

There you have it.

3) Increasing levels of difficulty are going to be a real pain soon enough IMO. It’s hard enough finding a group for the right dungeon/path, now you’re adding on however many difficulty levels for this new dungeon with no LFG tool.

4) The kitten NPC infront of fractals needs to STOP TALKING! lulz

A lot of folks said this was going to happen. a lot of folks said it wouldn’t. A lot of folks were wrong. normal everyday stuff.

This doesn’t directly affect me, because I don’t do the PUG scene. I have a group of people I play with regularly. But even if I didn’t, I still wouldn’t do the PUG scene. Because… PUGs.

Why this matters anyway…

An unpleasant, exclusionary environment will contribute to a loss of player investment. A loss of investment will lead to a reduction of the active population (which can then snowball). Such a reduction will negatively impact everyone in a variety of ways. Especially in this game, which has a certain dependency on activity levels, due to the open-world nature of the content.

Thus, not promoting such an environment is in ANet’s long-term interests.

Many of you wanted the elitist, grindy, gear check system. You got it. My thoughts? You got what you asked for. Don’t complain about it.

I don’t understand why someone who isn’t yet 80 wants to do an explorable dungeon, there is a lot to do till lvl80, why already start with the boring endgame pve content?

Hydrophidian.4319:

Why this matters anyway…

An unpleasant, exclusionary environment will contribute to a loss of player investment. A loss of investment will lead to a reduction of the active population (which can then snowball). Such a reduction will negatively impact everyone in a variety of ways. Especially in this game, which has a certain dependency on activity levels, due to the open-world nature of the content.

Thus, not promoting such an environment is in ANet’s long-term interests.

Basically this. I wouldn’t cry elitism (well maybe once in a while for a few very over the top monkeys) but the game is ‘casual’ from level 1 to level 80. They have said this over and over. Now when a ‘casual’ wants to start running new content, they will be excluded/shoehorned as thier gear won’t be enough.

I really don’t care about GW2 any longer but it’s sad to think some good (many good) players who have been in a generally enjoyable casual game up until now, will end up dropping the game due to this new gear system. ANet is grinding their cash shop proceeds into the dust (over time), IMO.

Artemis Noir.3804:

I just love this, people who call an argument sad when they are not capable of formulating a real rebuttal. rolleyes
As somebody else stated, it’s simply that you don’t like to be reminded of the fact that once upon a time you knew nothing. And going by some of your statements I’m beginning to think that you know more about gear stats than you do about actual skill,

I think what you’re having a difficult time comprehending is that not everyone in the world is a carebear chomping at the bit, frothing at the mouth, and wildly enthusiastic about helping people. Not many people want to spend their limited game time helping out complete strangers every day of the week, no MMO has ever been like that and no MMO ever will be, sorry to bring you back to reality.

While you’re sitting here acting like you’re so morally superior to the elitists, you haven’t realized that you’re just another elitist in a different form and thus, the circle of the internet continues to go ’round.

EDIT: Dear everyone else in this thread, elitists aren’t keeping you from this content. Your submission to them is what’s keeping you from this content, if some of you would put your dramatics aside you’d realize that elitist groups aren’t the only groups available for FotM. You never see elitists posting that all the casual carebear groups are making it difficult for them to do content, you know why?

Because we make our own groups. :O

vox.5019:

warmonkey.8013:

tyu.9470:

Non-Casuals: Let us have this small tiny piece of content to do hardcore and hard stuff and push the limits.

You wanna push limits, try doing harder and harder content in the SAME gear. Getting better gear doesn’t mean you’re doing any better, it means you don’t HAVE TO do any better. Your gear is carrying you.

This. It always makes me laugh at all the bads who think accomplishing something because of the numbers on their gear makes them skillful and hardcore. No, it just makes you a hamster.

Gotta be kidding me? Simple minded people like you deserve simple replies so..

Gear makes it faster, not skillful, more loot. Which is how a hardcore player thinks..to optimize the effort/reward. Nobody stops you from doing it slowly with normal people..why are you whining about them doing it fast and furious?

I play with casuals btw.

tyu.9470:

have not seen a single person asking for full exotics yet myself. Worst thing is porbalby asking difficulty x which is not bad at all.

I have only been in lions arch for around 1 hour since lost shores release. I saw 3 groups asking for 80 exotic only, and one guy who complained about it got told that anyone not exotic was a waste as they couldn’t achieve full effectiveness.

Desolation server. Yes its the player bases fault. If anyone in a PUG i’ve made complains about lower gear I warn and then kick em for being kittens.

Thoughts?
ANet was so proud of removing the:

LFM Healer, Tank, no CC

only to replace it with

LFM Ascended t[x] Infusion t[y], link gear in PM

What can I say, great job.

When is the time we can tell Anet “We told you so!”?
People have been warning about this as soon as the news spread about new “stuff”, before actual patch was applied.
So since we are seeing all of the warning come to pass, is it the right time now?

I don’t see the reason for all the drama… You always knew that the vocal minority would get the game to be the way they wanted, gear grind, only top level players get to go to whatever dungeon and all the bullkitten that made me quit the genre in the past. Hell, I’ve lost party spots just because my class didn’t bring enough for the party.

Just quit the game too. I’m having a blast playing other games. Games are supposed to be fun, not another shift of your daily job. Leave the game for the no-lives that can afford the time to play the gear treadmill.

Cyric.7485:

I don’t understand why this is a problem at all. Don’t like how someone is recruiting for their own group? Create your own group, problem solved. You can scoff and think you’re morally superior in your own little world of fancy candy canes and pink goblins riding unicorns with butterscotch clouds that rain chocolate hearts for all the kiddies because now it’s your group to do what you like with.

Play how you like, that’s the slogan, right?

This “elitism” only affects you because you refuse to take the initiative to put your own group together. So while you’re sitting on the sidelines judging that elitist jerk for having “crappy morals”, relax for a second and look in the mirror because at that moment you’re no better than what you perceive him to be now.

I must say this guy right here is right on the money.

If more of us, shall we say, relaxed folk took the initiative to form groups instead of being both individual snowflakes AND wallflowers, then the elitists would have their own little island and we would have ours, and there would be no need to moan about the fact that there’s no ferry service between islands – who cares, their island sucks.

Rise up meek brethren, for whatsoever thou soweth, thou shall also reap!

This isn’t a majority thing. There are tons of people, and I mean tons of people, who take whatever level, and just base it off of eh, if your good your good.

Ive gotten into everything I need to get into at level 35, im on the third Fractal, and ive done AC story and going to try for a AC expl today when I get off of work.

Oh, I have no guild, I have 1 person on my friends list, whos about as big of a loner as I am when it comes to MMO’s.

You just gotta find the right people, they are there. Normally not the ones who spam for 80+ Acended Gear / Legendaries / No Rangers blah blah blah …

We as a community in game, gotta not let it be the norm. When you hit 80, invite lower levels, keep it an actual game. ANet made it so when you are the required level to join, the content should be able to be completed with you and a party of 5 that level.

People are just lazy and too use to WoW.

To be honest, I rarely see people saying specific level/gear requirements.

All I see is “lf1m: AC exp” or “lf3m CoF path X”

Something like that on 99.0% of the time. Server: Borlis Pass.

I saw one asking “lf1m: Arah exp”, so I sent a PM – they asked what class, I said “guardian”, then they invited me – I immediately saw the reason – they need a melee class. lol. Understandable.

Plain and simple, its not the game its the people. If they dont want to bring a certain class tough cookies for you.

If they don’t want to bring a person thats not level 80 well tough luck again, better spend the couple days it takes to get to 80…

If they are running Level 20 fractals and those fractals pretty much require agony stats…. and you don’t have them well guess what they aren’t going to take dead weight that will just keep dieing and holding the group up.

Even if there was no new gear things like this would still happen… and was happening anyways since launch.

I’m a total snob. I’ve never invited anyone to my group that doesn’t have a specific guildtag.

Seriously, don’t PUG. People who PUG are bad players who don’t wash their armor and have breath that smells of peach tarts.

True fact: PUG rangers pets don’t mind properly.

All my characters are currently level 80, but whenever I see someone asking for “level 80s only” (or “need a tank” / “need a healer”), I add that person to my block list.

Saves me the (obvious) pain of getting grouped with someone that clueless later by accident.

Asking for “level 80s only” is a bit like saying “hello, I just arrived from WoW and I have no idea how this game works”.

Yeh feels like I can’t participate at all. If all new dungeons are going to be like this then I’m deeply disappointed…

No we didn’t see this coming from a mile away /sarcasm

A lot of people pointed this out long ago. Gated content breeds elitism and it only gets worse after time.

After Anet introduced the /rank command in GW1 it got increasingly more difficult to find groups if you didn’t show a sufficient rank for PvP. Thing is that was only a ranked that showed you have played a lot. This will get a lot worse due to gear difference.

Cyric.7485:

Artemis Noir.3804:

I just love this, people who call an argument sad when they are not capable of formulating a real rebuttal. rolleyes
As somebody else stated, it’s simply that you don’t like to be reminded of the fact that once upon a time you knew nothing. And going by some of your statements I’m beginning to think that you know more about gear stats than you do about actual skill,

I think what you’re having a difficult time comprehending is that not everyone in the world is a carebear chomping at the bit, frothing at the mouth, and wildly enthusiastic about helping people. Not many people want to spend their limited game time helping out complete strangers every day of the week, no MMO has ever been like that and no MMO ever will be, sorry to bring you back to reality.

While you’re sitting here acting like you’re so morally superior to the elitists, you haven’t realized that you’re just another elitist in a different form and thus, the circle of the internet continues to go ’round.

EDIT: Dear everyone else in this thread, elitists aren’t keeping you from this content. Your submission to them is what’s keeping you from this content, if some of you would put your dramatics aside you’d realize that elitist groups aren’t the only groups available for FotM. You never see elitists posting that all the casual carebear groups are making it difficult for them to do content, you know why?

Because we make our own groups. :O

Somehow, I think you’d see it differently if a dungeon catered to casuals disadvantaged “elitist” because they were “overqualified” for the dungeon but yet the “elitist” needed to get items from said dungeon to complete an armor set, and “elitist” were the ones who were consistently “kicked” from said groups.

Ya think we wouldn’t have a whole legion of “elitist” on these forums crying foul?