Guild Wars 2

Awesome. I’m not able to play this weekend so now I’ll never be able to find a FoTM group due to people wanting a certain fractal level. This mechanic is going to end up causing a lot of problems. Guess it’s back to Secret World for me.

I gave up after 3 failed, bug ridden runs anyway. Let them have their little dungeons. Back to WvWvW for me.

Cyric.7485:

You never see elitists posting that all the casual carebear groups are making it difficult for them to do content, you know why?

Yes, because they aren’t playing casual, “carebear” games like GW2 (outside of tPvP), they are playing games like EVE or simply stopped playing due to the abundance of ezmode, casual, carebear games today like Rift, WoW, SWTOR, etc.

Those who are “picky” are just carebear WoW kids, most of whom would throw their toys out of their pram if they had to play a real game:

- With open world PvP (none of those PvE carebear servers) with full loot.
- Where dungeons were public (for those unaware, that means you have to PvP whilst doing the dungeon and you actually have to get off your backside and get there, none of this molly coddled instanced crap)
- Games that actually involved real grind / effort / time to level, for the uninitated WoW, Rift, GW2, SWTOR, etc all fail to fit that criteria, they are watered down, solo friendly ez-mode versions of earlier games like EQ vanilla.

Account.9832:

All my characters are currently level 80, but whenever I see someone asking for “level 80s only” (or “need a tank” / “need a healer”), I add that person to my block list.

Saves me the (obvious) pain of getting grouped with someone that clueless later by accident.

Asking for “level 80s only” is a bit like saying “hello, I just arrived from WoW and I have no idea how this game works”.

Not really depending on the fractal level a none 80 could really hurt the group. Especially in a pug….

Curlybaby.6258:

Cyric.7485:

Artemis Noir.3804:

I just love this, people who call an argument sad when they are not capable of formulating a real rebuttal. rolleyes
As somebody else stated, it’s simply that you don’t like to be reminded of the fact that once upon a time you knew nothing. And going by some of your statements I’m beginning to think that you know more about gear stats than you do about actual skill,

I think what you’re having a difficult time comprehending is that not everyone in the world is a carebear chomping at the bit, frothing at the mouth, and wildly enthusiastic about helping people. Not many people want to spend their limited game time helping out complete strangers every day of the week, no MMO has ever been like that and no MMO ever will be, sorry to bring you back to reality.

While you’re sitting here acting like you’re so morally superior to the elitists, you haven’t realized that you’re just another elitist in a different form and thus, the circle of the internet continues to go ’round.

EDIT: Dear everyone else in this thread, elitists aren’t keeping you from this content. Your submission to them is what’s keeping you from this content, if some of you would put your dramatics aside you’d realize that elitist groups aren’t the only groups available for FotM. You never see elitists posting that all the casual carebear groups are making it difficult for them to do content, you know why?

Because we make our own groups. :O

Somehow, I think you’d see it differently if a dungeon catered to casuals disadvantaged “elitist” because they were “overqualified” for the dungeon but yet the “elitist” needed to get items from said dungeon to complete an armor set, and “elitist” were the ones who were consistently “kicked” from said groups.

Ya think we wouldn’t have a whole legion of “elitist” on these forums crying foul?

What are you imagining? A dungeon that only lets you in if you’re wearing greens and yellows? That no one is over a certain level?

I remember in Lineage 2 (my first NCSoft game), there were these tournament things you had to do to win for your side, and they had tiers that restricted power levels. So the “elite” of us kept characters deleveled to make the ideal group (because a lot of in-game wealth depended on it).

Trust me, the elite can manage their access to whatever they want.

Namu.5712:

Account.9832:

All my characters are currently level 80, but whenever I see someone asking for “level 80s only” (or “need a tank” / “need a healer”), I add that person to my block list.

Saves me the (obvious) pain of getting grouped with someone that clueless later by accident.

Asking for “level 80s only” is a bit like saying “hello, I just arrived from WoW and I have no idea how this game works”.

Not really depending on the fractal level a none 80 could really hurt the group. Especially in a pug….

It’s not so much “really hurt” — it’s just kill speed is better with geared 80.

Coming with less than 80 begs the question — why aren’t you 80? Just go get on your main, why not?

If I want to do the gear grind I will play a game with real end-game raid content. GW2 was never marketed as this type of game and that is not its strong point.. PvE was always supposed to be secondary to spvp and WvW. Now they have set the dangerous precedent of PvE taking center stage over everything else.

Cant do a dungeon because your level is too low? Join a good guild.

GDS on FOW runs dungeons for our low lvl members all the time. Just because you are low lvl doesn not exclude you from the fun. Having lvl 80’s in exotics make the dungeons easy. So it should not be a problem to breeze through in minutes.

If your in a guild that does not do these things for you. Your in the wrong guild.

The party is over. I have no intention of jumping through social hoops to do dungeons I never wanted to have to do in the first place.

Aside from leveling alts, this game is done for me.

mulch.2586:

Curlybaby.6258:

Cyric.7485:

Artemis Noir.3804:

I just love this, people who call an argument sad when they are not capable of formulating a real rebuttal. rolleyes
As somebody else stated, it’s simply that you don’t like to be reminded of the fact that once upon a time you knew nothing. And going by some of your statements I’m beginning to think that you know more about gear stats than you do about actual skill,

I think what you’re having a difficult time comprehending is that not everyone in the world is a carebear chomping at the bit, frothing at the mouth, and wildly enthusiastic about helping people. Not many people want to spend their limited game time helping out complete strangers every day of the week, no MMO has ever been like that and no MMO ever will be, sorry to bring you back to reality.

While you’re sitting here acting like you’re so morally superior to the elitists, you haven’t realized that you’re just another elitist in a different form and thus, the circle of the internet continues to go ’round.

EDIT: Dear everyone else in this thread, elitists aren’t keeping you from this content. Your submission to them is what’s keeping you from this content, if some of you would put your dramatics aside you’d realize that elitist groups aren’t the only groups available for FotM. You never see elitists posting that all the casual carebear groups are making it difficult for them to do content, you know why?

Because we make our own groups. :O

Somehow, I think you’d see it differently if a dungeon catered to casuals disadvantaged “elitist” because they were “overqualified” for the dungeon but yet the “elitist” needed to get items from said dungeon to complete an armor set, and “elitist” were the ones who were consistently “kicked” from said groups.

Ya think we wouldn’t have a whole legion of “elitist” on these forums crying foul?

What are you imagining? A dungeon that only lets you in if you’re wearing greens and yellows? That no one is over a certain level?

I remember in Lineage 2 (my first NCSoft game), there were these tournament things you had to do to win for your side, and they had tiers that restricted power levels. So the “elite” of us kept characters deleveled to make the ideal group (because a lot of in-game wealth depended on it).

Trust me, the elite can manage their access to whatever they want.

There could be many examples. Game designs can only be limited by limits imposed by the respective game’s designers. It could be as simple as having a low level dungeon catering to lower level players that dropped a rare “soulbound” mat needed for a rare high end armor set. The design may have been implemented to encourage occasional grouping between high level players (read; elitist) and lower level players. But the dungeon was designed in such a way that certain “elitists” builds were more desirable in groups than others. This would cause the lower group leader to shout"LF1M “elite” w/+<whatever>," so that any elitist without the +<whatever> would get kicked from the group upon discovery. This is pretty much the way it works now only the roles are reversed, is it not?

Ostra.3927:

Dogblaster.6713:

So you know guys … FoTM and Asceded gear was created for players (HC PvE) who wants to progress pve. So if players want to progress it you bet they will be picky, I am hc pve player myself with about 200+ explorable dungeon runs and you bet I am really not inviting just some randoms with bad gear and no skills.

So again, just repeating. FoTM was created mainly for level 80 level HC players who wants to progress. So I dont see any reason to complain about elitism .. cause thats how it is.

So you bet that random/pug groups are going to have problems in this dungeons, you bet that players that want to finish every difficulty possible will ask for best players only. If you dont like it, make your OWN group and just run difficultry one with whoever you want.

I will make mine group of elitist players and nothing you can do about it.

LMAO.

Yet those of us that first heard about the gear stat increase were told “it wont be that bad, stop exaggerating” when we said this would be exactly what would happen.

The only problem is we were wrong… we expected it to be a few days… low and behold its just a few HOURS. LOL

Reap what you sow grind heads… reap what you sow.

The most humorous thing about Dog’s posts is that he has no recognition how foreign he sounds to those who embrace the stated Guild Wars design philosophy which is centered around players playing with other players successfully. GW2 was a breath of fresh air after WoW and I have loved helping others out when they were in need and I’ve been helped many times by other players. It’s a shame to see Anet cater to those who want GW2 to become WoW. If you haven’t experienced WoW, it comes with a lot of baggage. Sadly, the recent changes have brought the players with the wowtude out of the woodwork. I’m just really sad to see GW2 go in this direction and for the first time since launch, I have no desire to play.

Sad, but true all the way around. It’s that “other” game with the gear grind and abyss point system all over again unfortunately…still having nightmares.
If anyone wants to join up with me and hubby, Ranger & Guardian respectively. We’d love to have a group with no leetisms. Just pure fun and a few laughs over my personal TS while we “weazel” our way through!
Give me a shout if your on Yak’s Bend !

Curlybaby.6258:

Somehow, I think you’d see it differently if a dungeon catered to casuals disadvantaged “elitist” because they were “overqualified” for the dungeon but yet the “elitist” needed to get items from said dungeon to complete an armor set, and “elitist” were the ones who were consistently “kicked” from said groups.

Ya think we wouldn’t have a whole legion of “elitist” on these forums crying foul?

If for some bizarre reason that ever came to be, I’d be willing to bet my fully decked out thief that elitists wouldn’t come on the forum and whine about it. Honestly though, most of these dungeons do cater to casuals in terms of difficulty anyhow. The only things I ever see elitists QQ about is content being too easy, being bored, or others being bad…

The solution is simply to create your own group if available groups aren’t meeting your criteria, I don’t understand why people don’t find this to be a viable solution. Some people form parties to help newbs, some people create parties to take their time and explore, some people create parties to complete content as efficiently as possible, etc etc… it’s just the way it is. If I had to put a football team together to win the Superbowl, I’d probably pick players I thought were exceptional at the sport… not Joe Schmoe and his junkyard team. /shrug

I dont think it is elitism to set your group up with the best chances.
Anet balanced thier game so that you can take any 5 classes and be succesful, however that doesnt mean it will be efficient, for best results you want

2 tanky/support
2 dps/support
1 healer,support (more for condition/boon management in those tough spots than boss fight make redbar go up healer, engineers and necros shine in this role)

My guild is trying to get a 5man setup that is

Guardian
Warrior/Guardian
Thief
Ranger
Engi/Necromancer/Ele

But it is tough finding players playing that last role, because it is unrewarding in generic pve, but invaluable in dungeons.

Do we always have this setup? No, and we are fine without it, it is just optimal for us and what we prefer to play with

(btw if you are that last role and are looking for a reliable dungeon team to go with, we are usually 4/5 most nights looking for a 5th, blackgate)

Garenthal.1480:

Arena Net need to speak out against elitism, not let it fester and grow into a widespread issue. Otherwise the community will become stagnant and spiteful.

Otherwise? It already IS.

The solution to this is dungeon finder. An automated tool reduces discrimination. Those that wish to choose who is in their may still do so by forming their own groups— but the rest that just want to get in the dungeons and go can do so.

What we’re all talking about is a decline of a social environment, which is clearly rising on the horizon with the introduction of an item spiral.

I’ve played the “biggest” MMORPG and I saw the process, people lying about experience to get gear, because there was no other way to find groups, because you get excluded from game content and that is a fact. The typical you got to have gear for it, but without getting any groups you won’t get gear. Ah yes, you can make a group yourself, right and spend about two hours of searching getting one together.

People getting randomly kicked from groups, laughed at, insulted or everything from the mentioned – so much for elitist behaviour at it’s best. And I do not like to look back to PVP with the guys who just try to grind new items fast and faceroll every player with the better item stats, laughing at their corpse or spitting on it.

A dungeon finder would be the social grave for the game.

I just wish that some players from another mmorpg would just shut up and not try to turn another game with a promising concept and ideas into a game where they do come from and where they have already destroyed the social environment.

Mmm in the game with 12 million subs I still waited quite a while sometimes for a party to be formed. That is with the dungeon finder. Wait that was off topic.

Its their right to form the group they want. Ive only had that happen once and only because both myself and a higher asked to join at the same time. Got lucky late last night and did ac story on my lvl 30 ele with a lvl 33 thief and two 80’s of some sort. We four manned it and it was the sweetest run ive seen in there.

I held off from dungeons until I was level 80 with full Exotics, so I’ve always been allowed to join the self-proclaimed elite parties. In my experience, the elite parties are far far worse than random groups of mixed level players. They rage if one person dies, try and kick each other, curse like there’s no tomorrow, rage quit, and are usually the ones making the most mistakes. Anyone labeling themselves as elite, and any party asking for Exotics, and in some cases level 80’s only, are actually doing you a huge favour – you know exactly who to avoid.

The entire Idea of upscaling is a failure. You are not able to find groups because of this. It is not personal

Lets assume for a second your at least lvl 30 and have an elite skill. Ok What are you lacking.
1. Gear: Your gear stats will be far lower than an 80
2. Trait skills: You have 20 points. You don’t even have half a build
3. Trait stats: as with the above, You are missing out on 50 points worth of stats. That comes out to at least a loss of 500 primary stat points.
4. Skill points: Not only are you less than half a build, chances are you don’t have the important skills that could be needed for yourself and you group.

Now, think about that sort of handicap. How can you consider yourself not carried. About the only thing you can do as well as a 80 mathematically, is resurrect. Your health, defense, damage, utility is all severely lacking and because of that, it’s not personal, but you should be locked to scale 1 and it should be jokingly easy. It is not elitism. You are not less of a player for not being max level but you are less of an asset to a group. Blame Anet for not putting in a lvl 0.

As far as requiring exotics. I don’t support it. Exotic to rare is not a huge jump. I am all for requiring rares as they are dirt cheap. But exotics is just being snobbish.

ps: anet please create a debuff in all dungeons disabling magic find. Selfish builds are a bane of the dungeon community.

Malvagite.3254:

you may be scaled up but that isnt worth as much as you think it is.

you dont have grandmaster traits, as such you are missing a lot of defense options. you dont have gear with 3 sets of stats either, further putting your survivability at risk.

rezzing low level players multiple times a run is akin to 4 manning the dungeon.

ill take 1 low level player with me if the rest of the group is near max level. 2 or more…no thanks.

sure you can complete AC with a group of 5 lev 35’s. but you will die many times in the process. that prospect is only worth the time investment to the low level player.

Then you are a terrible player.
Last night I joined a group and I was lvl 43 (condition thief) another thief was lvl 37 I think, a necro lvl 74 and an 80 guardian. The other slot the guy DC’ed and did not return so we said “lets see how far we can go” the four of us then completed all three dungeons of phase 1 with absolute ease, Some of died a few times till we learnt the fights but we all agreed it had been a fantastic night (about 1 and a half hours) we would have continued but it was late and two of the four had to go to bed (me included)
Please go to a different MMO so you can be elitest there.

yurtshone.7325:

Malvagite.3254:

you may be scaled up but that isnt worth as much as you think it is.

you dont have grandmaster traits, as such you are missing a lot of defense options. you dont have gear with 3 sets of stats either, further putting your survivability at risk.

rezzing low level players multiple times a run is akin to 4 manning the dungeon.

ill take 1 low level player with me if the rest of the group is near max level. 2 or more…no thanks.

sure you can complete AC with a group of 5 lev 35’s. but you will die many times in the process. that prospect is only worth the time investment to the low level player.

Then you are a terrible player.
Last night I joined a group and I was lvl 43 (condition thief) another thief was lvl 37 I think, a necro lvl 74 and an 80 guardian. The other slot the guy DC’ed and did not return so we said “lets see how far we can go” the four of us then completed all three dungeons of phase 1 with absolute ease, Some of died a few times till we learnt the fights but we all agreed it had been a fantastic night (about 1 and a half hours) we would have continued but it was late and two of the four had to go to bed (me included)
Please go to a different MMO so you can be elitest there.

Fractals difficulty 1 is meant to be piss easy.

Cap gear effectiveness for dungeons, apply diminishing rewards for farming the same dungeon over and over again, developers need to make sure that there is a class balance between all classes.

Problem solved?

Warkupo.1025:

Cap gear effectiveness for dungeons, apply diminishing rewards for farming the same dungeon over and over again, developers need to make sure that there is a class balance between all classes.

Problem solved?

That there is no DR on FotM makes perfect sense, since it is a hell of a grind to get to a level where the dungeon even starts to be a challenge. Don’t get me wrong, the different fractals are great but that doesn’t change the fact that the boss mechanics are not very challenging. It took me long enough to get to lvl 8, ant it’s not really difficult yet, it’s still rather easy and you can still ignore a lot of mechanics.