Guild Wars 2

Thank you for posting this. I agree with this. I would prefer there was no vertical progression in the game. I don’t think that it makes this a better game.

Even if the game doesn’t technically require people to grind, many will feel that they have to, and will be forced to play content they don’t enjoy.

Agree with both of you (and am curious if Vayne has been taking drugs). Pure horizontal progression – skins, skills and build options – would have been a far better way for them to go.

Yep, I personally don’t like it either. I would have preferred horizontal progression only.

But since I don’t in any way or form need to get the gear I don’t have too much of an issue with it, since I can still do everything in the game.

i really loved gw2.
the setting. the plot. every single piece of it. the lore. the ost i bought.
i used to buy gems just to support devs. just spend for getting skins

since the introduction of ascnded, and the inhuman amount of gold and time to get it, i feel in prison.
and uninstalling it is a pain for me
i really hope that something will change

ascended to be gained in more ways? (and shorter ways, am a casual)
make grind only a way to skins and cosmetic chnges or exp powerups or similar.
i d like to log in once a day, and feel that also that little time i play is a pleasure.
not that i m always behind the others

I prefer horizontal as well. I’m also aware that a large part of the gaming community likes vertical progression. That’s why I’m actually a fan of how vertical progression is done here… easy access to the gear you need to complete the vast majority of the content in the game (aside I think from high-end Fractals), yet there’s that one last tier that gives marginal increases in stats for a considerable investment in time and/or resources but keeps those stat increases well in check such that they don’t obsolete exotics or any content. I think they’ve reached a really nice balance for those that dislike the vertical progression treadmill and those that want vertical progression… as long as ascended remains the final tier. Now… if they add a tier above ascended, especially after I’ve spent months taking my time working towards even my first piece… then I’m likely to be unamused.

I think introducing ascended armour was a totally pointless exercise and a waste of the devs time.

They would have been much better introducing Legendary armour instead…same stats as exotic but a awesome skin, a slot for everything (infusions, rune etc…) and each legendary piece changeable to whatever stats you wanted outside of combat.

Everyone would have wanted legendary armour, very few people want ascended armour…

Yes, unfortunately, even though you don’t strictly need the extra stats Ascended gear provides, the simple fact that it does provide extra stats and other people will have these fuels the mindset that it is, in fact, a requirement.

I have never been anything other than a casual player, and I am nearly always just exploring, rather than playing most of the “endgame” Guild Wars 2 has, yet even I look at Ascended and feel like I should have it. If it were just skins and I really liked the look of them, then maybe, sure, I’d go for them. But I would always know that it was simply “want” over “need”. Now, with the stat increase, there isn’t “required”, but it’s really hard not to think there’s an element of “need” in there.

the matter is that for me, and many others, even that little increase in stats is a pain, and cause ppl to feel “behind the others”.
i d like PURE horizontal progression.
that is what many of us are asking for…

As I do very little PvP, I don’t feel encumbered by having little Ascended gear. I don’t have any problem anywhere in the game that I play. As far as I can tell, that gear was introduced for those that like such things.

The only problem I have with Ascended gear is the fodder it has provided for all the complaining on the forums. It’s too bad there is so much ‘keeping up with the Joneses’ because of it.

yeah. i d love to see a new class, new weapons, new skills, new maps, new skins, new pets.
anything BUT a new BiS equio.
and i think there s a lot of room to satisfy with it also vertical progression lovers as well

Kevan.8912:

i really loved gw2.
the setting. the plot. every single piece of it. the lore. the ost i bought.
i used to buy gems just to support devs. just spend for getting skins

since the introduction of ascnded, and the inhuman amount of gold and time to get it, i feel in prison.
and uninstalling it is a pain for me
i really hope that something will change

ascended to be gained in more ways? (and shorter ways, am a casual)
make grind only a way to skins and cosmetic chnges or exp powerups or similar.
i d like to log in once a day, and feel that also that little time i play is a pleasure.
not that i m always behind the others

Kevan, stop doing that to yourself. You don’t need ascended… it’s simply there as a final carrot for those that prefer to have a carrot to chase. Don’t ignore the rest of the salad bar because you can’t reach the carrot yet. I have no ascended weapons or armors yet, and I’m quite an active player. Yes, I’m taking my time working towards my first ascended piece, but in the WvW and PvE I do it’s not necessary and doesn’t hold me back in the slightest. Just stop worrying about something you don’t need to worry about. The pressure you’re feeling is self-inflicted.

stale.9785:

Agree with both of you (and am curious if Vayne has been taking drugs). Pure horizontal progression – skins, skills and build options – would have been a far better way for them to go.

I’ve always said I was against vertical progression. My issue is when people try to say Anet promised, or Anet said, or the manifesto said, because that’s completely irrelevant to the conversation.

Games, particularly MMOs, change all the time.

If you don’t like a change, make a case for not liking the change. Saying so and so said this or that is counter productive.

That’s what I’ve been saying all along.

Meglobob.8620:

I think introducing ascended armour was a totally pointless exercise and a waste of the devs time.

They would have been much better introducing Legendary armour instead…same stats as exotic but a awesome skin, a slot for everything (infusions, rune etc…) and each legendary piece changeable to whatever stats you wanted outside of combat.

Everyone would have wanted legendary armour, very few people want ascended armour…

I think we’ll see that next (except same stats as ascended, not exotic). The whole “switching stats” would be an amazing addition.

What I’m really hoping is that out of the CDIs comes the ability to change the stats on ascended gear by using a t-stone (or something) to replace the insignia alone instead of sacrificing a piece of gear to do so. That would be an amazing QoL improvement there for people that try dramatically different builds on occasion.

i make myself happy by ignoring Ascended exists- I don’t have the time or money or will to slave myself to the game in order to get it.

So instead I do the things i have always enjoyed- so far none of my 5 80’s seem to suffer for it.
And I don’t end up hating the game because I simply play what I enjoy.

Ironically the only people I have seen around with Ascended armor are also sporting Legendary weapons- so yeah.
They have the time and money for it I guess.

I am content to make some mystic forge skins I like and just enjoy the game

I chose to ignore all the Ascended weapon and armor stuff, if it drops for me great otherwise its way too boring and grindy of a path to earn BiS gear, there are better uses for my time and gold than sitting there hitting a “craft it now button” or trying to gather 17000 silk scraps. I have yet to feel at any disadvantage playing, I don’t play fractals, very very rarely do dungeons, usually just WvW and a couple world events and thats it.

I personally do not believe Ascended to be the last tier, I have a feeling there will be many more and until Anet proves otherwise I am not wasting time and resources chasing a carrot.

well…as seems that also who used to defend ascended as “options” don t need that ascended so much..so why are these ascended still there?
i think that complaints of people who don’t want/need them is much more evident than those from the ppl who asked FOR ascended…
just my feeling

Kevan.8912:

well…as seems that also who used to defend ascended as “options” don t need that ascended so much..so why are these ascended still there?
i think that complaints of people who don’t want/need them is much more evident than those from the ppl who asked FOR ascended…
just my feeling

You answered your own question and probably didn’t even realize it. Ascended is there because it’s an option for people that do like it. Believe it or not, some people enjoy working away towards better gear, no matter how marginal that “better” is.

It is there because there are people that want something better to work towards. And thus they made a compromise.
You need to work quite a bit for it, but the difference is so small that it is in no way required and thus won’t effect those people that don’t want to work for those slightly better stats.

Its easy to understand why vertical progression is bad…

People who really like this game, enjoy doing “content” aven if there is not much of it.

For example i d love to be free to play fotm, WWW or just to run a pug casual arah 4 etc..

But i can t…..i need gold for ascended armor -.- so i m forced to do daily for laurels and farm dungeons in speedrun parties…..

Then farm world bosses for dragonite…..

I need to grind to prepare to have fun….and the worst thing is that i need to grind to do the same exact stuff i used to do if i want to mantain my status quo.

I didn t gain anything by the introduction of vertical progression i just lost a lot of fun.

Must be so there are options. I don’t rage about PvP being in the game, as others like it. It’s just not for me.

I would also prefer just horizontal progression. But you’ve got to bear in mind that a lot of people who play GW2 want at least some vertical progression.

When the game was first released a lot of players breezed through most of the available content (or at least levelling, getting a full set of exotics and doing all the dungeons) then started complaining that there was nothing left that gave them any sense of progression of any kind. What they asked for specifically was vertical progression – usually in the form of a gear treadmill with raids as the method of acquisition.

Personally I think Anet did a good job of compromising by adding just 1 new tier with a relatively small stat increase which is only actually required for the ‘hard mode’ version of one optional dungeon. And especially doing it in such a way that the one tier has kept those who want vertical progression occupied for over a year.

But I am concerned about what they’re going to do when most of those people have got a full set of ascended and start demanding something else to grind for. Or how they’ll handle an expansion. I’m sure many people, particularly those who came from other MMOs are expecting an expansion to include an increase in the level cap and new tiers of equipment to go with it and will be disappointed and/or angry if that doesn’t happen, but other people (aka us) will be disappointed if they do that.

But I think we should worry about burning that bridge when we get to it.

LordByron.8369:

Its easy to understand why vertical progression is bad…

People who really like this game, enjoy doing “content” aven if there is not much of it.

For example i d love to be free to play fotm, WWW or just to run a pug casual arah 4 etc..

But i can t…..i need gold for ascended armor -.- so i m forced to do daily for laurels and farm dungeons in speedrun parties…..

Then farm world bosses for dragonite…..

I need to grind to prepare to have fun….and the worst thing is that i need to grind to do the same exact stuff i used to do if i want to mantain my status quo.

I didn t gain anything by the introduction of vertical progression i just lost a lot of fun.

I have to say this hasn’t been my experience at all. I don’t disagree that ascended gear takes a lot of time and gold (or other currencies) to get, but I don’t feel like it’s needed for anything.

I got to level 80 in April and I’ve still only got 2 ascended rings, no other pieces. But I’m still able to do WvW (including small roaming groups), get into (non-speed run) groups for dungeons, do all the Living Story content, world bosses etc. etc.

That’s the only reason I’m ok with ascended existing. So far I haven’t found anything except high level Fractals which requires it, so I can take my time getting it in between doing other things (or at the same time – I’ve got about 500 of each of the crafting materials waiting for me to level crafting enough to use them, just from playing things I’d do anyway).

Danikat.8537:

I would also prefer just horizontal progression. But you’ve got to bear in mind that a lot of people who play GW2 want at least some vertical progression.

When the game was first released a lot of players breezed through most of the available content (or at least levelling, getting a full set of exotics and doing all the dungeons) then started complaining that there was nothing left that gave them any sense of progression of any kind. What they asked for specifically was vertical progression – usually in the form of a gear treadmill with raids as the method of acquisition.

Personally I think Anet did a good job of compromising by adding just 1 new tier with a relatively small stat increase which is only actually required for the ‘hard mode’ version of one optional dungeon. And especially doing it in such a way that the one tier has kept those who want vertical progression occupied for over a year.

But I am concerned about what they’re going to do when most of those people have got a full set of ascended and start demanding something else to grind for. Or how they’ll handle an expansion. I’m sure many people, particularly those who came from other MMOs are expecting an expansion to include an increase in the level cap and new tiers of equipment to go with it and will be disappointed and/or angry if that doesn’t happen, but other people (aka us) will be disappointed if they do that.

But I think we should worry about burning that bridge when we get to it.

maybe those people complaining about no endgame and no vert progress would be happy with a endgame with more interesting story, living story, new skills and so on.
if they were bored by the game, it wasn’t for the absence of a gear to grind ONLY.
but also for a lack of contents that anet tried to fulfill with the easy carrot: grind to BiS.

so switching back to only horizontal prog. might be a right compromise

Ascended goes against ever thing great that Guild Wars once stood for, and should never have had better stats. Seriously, in the sequel to one of the games that proved pure horizontal progression and prestige skins work great, how do you get this wrong?

imsoenthused.1634:

Ascended goes against ever thing great that Guild Wars once stood for, and should never have had better stats. Seriously, in the sequel to one of the games that proved pure horizontal progression and prestige skins work great, how do you get this wrong?

yeah. as gw showed in the past, i think it could still work, evem with a more wow-used ppl.
but of course, it requires much more work than throwing in a dozen of new time-and gold-sucking gear.
hope devs will take the good way. don t know if it’s too late

Honestly, A.Net is going to take fire no matter what they do. They have a small but very vocal minority – you guys – complaining about vertical progression, and then they have a massive exodus of players leaving the game because they’ve got nothing left to accomplish after 3 weeks of playing.

I think they handled the situation very well. They released a tier of items to work towards for those who want to have something to strive for which does not give a boost large enough to obsolete the more accessible exotic gear.

All in all, good job A.Net.

Subdue, I see it as failing both groups. The ones who crave treadmills won’t be satisfied with the ascended + infusions. If the treadmill stops, that group is going to leave again. (That’s on the assumption that any came back, which I doubt mightily)

Those of us who HATE vertical progression are still going to be upset over being jerked about.

For me, it’s a lose/lose. The only group who won’t be disenchanted would be those who bought the game with no expectations, and thus had no preconception for what the game would be.

The vocal minority complaining about vertical progression… Oh, you mean Guild Wars 1 fans. How silly of us.

VOLKON.1290:

Kevan.8912:

i really loved gw2.
the setting. the plot. every single piece of it. the lore. the ost i bought.
i used to buy gems just to support devs. just spend for getting skins

since the introduction of ascnded, and the inhuman amount of gold and time to get it, i feel in prison.
and uninstalling it is a pain for me
i really hope that something will change

ascended to be gained in more ways? (and shorter ways, am a casual)
make grind only a way to skins and cosmetic chnges or exp powerups or similar.
i d like to log in once a day, and feel that also that little time i play is a pleasure.
not that i m always behind the others

Kevan, stop doing that to yourself. You don’t need ascended… it’s simply there as a final carrot for those that prefer to have a carrot to chase. Don’t ignore the rest of the salad bar because you can’t reach the carrot yet. I have no ascended weapons or armors yet, and I’m quite an active player. Yes, I’m taking my time working towards my first ascended piece, but in the WvW and PvE I do it’s not necessary and doesn’t hold me back in the slightest. Just stop worrying about something you don’t need to worry about. The pressure you’re feeling is self-inflicted.

As a mainly WvW player, I feel the 15%-30% difference between full Exotic and ascended is necessary to continue to be effective.
I would love to change my Warrior from Condition to Zerker but it would take months to get all the Ascended gear I would need to compete :-(

imsoenthused.1634:

The vocal minority complaining about vertical progression… Oh, you mean Guild Wars 1 fans. How silly of us.

Oh you mean the game that had vertical progression that was REQUIRED to even continue the story?

stale.9785:

Subdue, I see it as failing both groups. The ones who crave treadmills won’t be satisfied with the ascended + infusions. If the treadmill stops, that group is going to leave again. (That’s on the assumption that any came back, which I doubt mightily)

Those of us who HATE vertical progression are still going to be upset over being jerked about.

For me, it’s a lose/lose. The only group who won’t be disenchanted would be those who bought the game with no expectations, and thus had no preconception for what the game would be.

Uh, the price of silk has gone up over 3000%. I guarantee you people are working on ascended armors. Whether people came back or not, I have no way of knowing. But are there people motivated to play more because of it, obviously.

And as for you losing, well, that’s just in your head. I guarantee you can’t name a single thing in this game that you can’t do without ascended armors, other than have ascended armors. You could play this game exactly as you have been playing, doing all the things you enjoy, as if ascended armors didn’t exist. That your own neurosis at what other people might be able to have because they want to work for it has you feeling jerked around, well, that’s on you.

Budchgon.2108:

VOLKON.1290:

Kevan.8912:

i really loved gw2.
the setting. the plot. every single piece of it. the lore. the ost i bought.
i used to buy gems just to support devs. just spend for getting skins

since the introduction of ascnded, and the inhuman amount of gold and time to get it, i feel in prison.
and uninstalling it is a pain for me
i really hope that something will change

ascended to be gained in more ways? (and shorter ways, am a casual)
make grind only a way to skins and cosmetic chnges or exp powerups or similar.
i d like to log in once a day, and feel that also that little time i play is a pleasure.
not that i m always behind the others

Kevan, stop doing that to yourself. You don’t need ascended… it’s simply there as a final carrot for those that prefer to have a carrot to chase. Don’t ignore the rest of the salad bar because you can’t reach the carrot yet. I have no ascended weapons or armors yet, and I’m quite an active player. Yes, I’m taking my time working towards my first ascended piece, but in the WvW and PvE I do it’s not necessary and doesn’t hold me back in the slightest. Just stop worrying about something you don’t need to worry about. The pressure you’re feeling is self-inflicted.

As a mainly WvW player, I feel the 15%-30% difference between full Exotic and ascended is necessary to continue to be effective.
I would love to change my Warrior from Condition to Zerker but it would take months to get all the Ascended gear I would need to compete :-(

See, I’m glad you brought up WvW. What about:

Guard killer: +100 power, +100 condition damage
Defense against guards: +250 Vitality
Siege Masteries: Do more damage, attack faster, have special effects
Siege Bunker: Take less damage from siege
Supply Master: Carrying more supply

And then there’s of course foods, making it possible to be almost completely immune to condition damage unless the caster is using food specifically to counter yours. Or heck, how about just the toxic foods that add 100 to a stat, but cost 30s for 30 minutes of use?

How about the gold cost of siege? Omega Golems, Superior Carts, Rams, Catapults, etc, those aren’t free you know.

WvW has always been an environment where those who are willing to invest their time and gold are able to secure an advantage. Ascended gear is merely another avenue.

Nope – it’s the actual description I bought the game under that has me jerked around. I took part in the conversations with the dev teams, followed the blogs, and provided feedback. Right up until 2 months after the game went live, every comment they had on gear could be summed up as “everybody will be able to have BiS gear when they hit max level”. Gear was going to follow the same guidelines as GW1.

What that means is that the BiS gear I got in 2005 would still be BiS, were I to log in right now. I wouldn’t be behind. I could roll a new character, and be at max level with absolute best gear inside of 20 hours.

This is what we were told gear would be. It’s how it was implemented. They changed that.

I’ve not once denied that there’s nothing in-game that can’t be done in exotics. That’s not the point. The fact that, all other things being equal, the better geared person WILL win in any comparison – that’s a problem. Dungeon runs? Well, the fellow in full ascended will be dealing (assuming zerker gear) about 14% more damage than the guy in exotics – he will die less, and be done faster. In wvw, it won’t make an individual difference, mostly. Across a large group? The side with the most people kitted out with Ascended WILL win.

Hell, people have already started demanded Ascended gear pinging for dungeons. Mind you, to me that’s a sign that I don’t want to play with those people in the first place – but it will become more common.

Those are the reasons that ascended upsets me.

I took the lest tragic route.
I crafted myself light of Dwayna FOR the SKIN
I could have crafted a couple of weapons for the price but they are ugly as hell.

I will grind for skins (stubborn me) … as long as there are nice skins. As for the rest? Don’t know. Don’t care.

I still try to play the game as intended at the start : grind for being pwetty.

PS : I am really looking forward to the level cap increase to see half of the GW2 population cry when lvl90 exotics get the same stats as grindy lvl80 ascended. Well, I hope this does not happen and they uplevel the crafted gear, but if it happens I will laugh really hard.

Budchgon.2108:

VOLKON.1290:

Kevan.8912:

i really loved gw2.
the setting. the plot. every single piece of it. the lore. the ost i bought.
i used to buy gems just to support devs. just spend for getting skins

since the introduction of ascnded, and the inhuman amount of gold and time to get it, i feel in prison.
and uninstalling it is a pain for me
i really hope that something will change

ascended to be gained in more ways? (and shorter ways, am a casual)
make grind only a way to skins and cosmetic chnges or exp powerups or similar.
i d like to log in once a day, and feel that also that little time i play is a pleasure.
not that i m always behind the others

Kevan, stop doing that to yourself. You don’t need ascended… it’s simply there as a final carrot for those that prefer to have a carrot to chase. Don’t ignore the rest of the salad bar because you can’t reach the carrot yet. I have no ascended weapons or armors yet, and I’m quite an active player. Yes, I’m taking my time working towards my first ascended piece, but in the WvW and PvE I do it’s not necessary and doesn’t hold me back in the slightest. Just stop worrying about something you don’t need to worry about. The pressure you’re feeling is self-inflicted.

As a mainly WvW player, I feel the 15%-30% difference between full Exotic and ascended is necessary to continue to be effective.
I would love to change my Warrior from Condition to Zerker but it would take months to get all the Ascended gear I would need to compete :-(

As mainly a WvW player myself I’d love you to change your warrior to zerker. More loot bags for me.

lordkrall.7241:

imsoenthused.1634:

The vocal minority complaining about vertical progression… Oh, you mean Guild Wars 1 fans. How silly of us.

Oh you mean the game that had vertical progression that was REQUIRED to even continue the story?

No, I’m talking about the game that had a very short vertical progression period due to its low level cap, with easily attainable BiS gear, that I experienced years of unadulterated joy playing, and still load up and enjoy occasionally to this day. You know, the one that Guild Wars 2 makes me want to play all over again every time I load it up.

I guess I just don’t understand the big deal with vertical progression… What’s fun about weilding the same sword you did in 2009? “Skins” don’t really represent progression, just choice.

Being “forced” to do something is entirely in the mindset of the player

I was like a lot of you. I want to grind for skins and other items that don’t give me any advantage, but just look nice.

But I also try to look at things more openly then before. Ascended is what the top tier armor was in GW2. You had to grind certain areas to get the mats for it. Then you had it crafted. Ascended fits that role. Now that is all here, we will grind for the armor and then, ANET will start adding skins to be used with it. Like with Teq, they added skins, I think they will start doing this more as time goes along. I kinda like it. Now if they add another tier after this, that is when I will start being mad about it.

My sole reason for logging in now is to find fights in WvW. The rest of the game is so unappealing to me now. I crafted a legendary, I got all my crafts to 400 (and most to 500), made half of one armour set and gave up because of the dragonite and low level cloth required. Grinding everyhting out for my legendary is all the grind I am willing to put into this game. I’m not doing it again for stats, I don’t care if it means I have 200 health less than someone else in WvW.

stale.9785:

Nope – it’s the actual description I bought the game under that has me jerked around. I took part in the conversations with the dev teams, followed the blogs, and provided feedback. Right up until 2 months after the game went live, every comment they had on gear could be summed up as “everybody will be able to have BiS gear when they hit max level”. Gear was going to follow the same guidelines as GW1.

What that means is that the BiS gear I got in 2005 would still be BiS, were I to log in right now. I wouldn’t be behind. I could roll a new character, and be at max level with absolute best gear inside of 20 hours.

This is what we were told gear would be. It’s how it was implemented. They changed that.

Yea yea yea we’ve all heard the spiel already. But quite frankly, in just about every way, exotic gear is still basically BiS for the simple fact that you can do everything in exotic gear. Heck, really you could do it in rare gear if you wanted to. You see, BiS in GW2 is different from just about every other MMO. In other MMOs, not having BiS gear locks you out of content.

Expand your views on what constitutes Best In Slot.

I’ve not once denied that there’s nothing in-game that can’t be done in exotics. That’s not the point. The fact that, all other things being equal, the better geared person WILL win in any comparison – that’s a problem. Dungeon runs? Well, the fellow in full ascended will be dealing (assuming zerker gear) about 14% more damage than the guy in exotics – he will die less, and be done faster. In wvw, it won’t make an individual difference, mostly. Across a large group? The side with the most people kitted out with Ascended WILL win.

Uh… Let’s break that down. First of all, ascended items give at most a 10% advantage. But let’s say you’re right, and it’s 14%. Then let’s assuming that dungeons are 100% fighting. No cut scenes, no waiting for stuff to talk, just all fighting. The average dungeon right now takes 15 minutes for a moderately competent group, with few to no deaths, and usually no wipes. Thus, a 14% increase in damage from a party that’s wearing 100% ascended gear would mean a 14% increase in clear speed, saving them a WHOPPING 2 minutes. Stop the presses everyone! Of course, the difference is actually closer to 5-10%, and there are cut scenes and breaks, and running parts in dungeons, so in reality, you only save a minute or so, if that. Gamebreaking, right?

And as for WvW, as I’ve already stated previously, that gold investment is ALREADY a huge factor in WvW. WvW has never been about equal footing. The side that’s willing to put more into has always had an advantage. This is just another avenue for that.

Hell, people have already started demanded Ascended gear pinging for dungeons. Mind you, to me that’s a sign that I don’t want to play with those people in the first place – but it will become more common.

I dungeon every day, CoF, HotW, CoE, AC, SE, Fractals, and occasionally Arah if I have time. The ONLY place I’ve ever seen anyone asking for ascended items is fractals, which is specifically for the agony resistance. That’s nothing new. That said, even if asking for ascended items does become a thing, so what? You can gather up all the other ascended haters and form your own group.

Ascended items allow people to play the way they want to play, without affecting how you play the game.

Subdue, we’re never going to agree. That much is obvious. The fact that you’re now insisting that second best is equivalent to best shows that.

The most extreme damage difference would be on zerker gear, wherein the difference is roughly 13% in straight direct damage. Add to that the increased proc on crit (once more per 10 hits) and then the extra damage on crit (79% crit damage with ascended, vs 69% with exotics.) So, not only will the person in ascended gear hit for 13% more all the time, but on a crit, they’re going to hit for 10% extra damage, and they’re going to get a critical hit more often.

It’s not a huge difference, but it’s one that will win fights, everything else being equal. It’s something that becomes extremely notable when running glass cannon builds.

All of that adds to my objection, but at the core, it remains the part that you dismissed with a “yea, yea yea”. Sorry, your dismissal doesn’t make my complaint any less relevant.

Beyond that, they could have spent the dev hours wasted on the time gated, gear treadmill, satisfy-the-game-locusts garbage that outright reversed the premise they sold the game under creating something worthwhile.

It really depends on the psychology of the gamer in question. What people who don’t fall into the achiever category from the Bartle Test for Gamer Psychology fail to realize is that for those of us who do, the difference being negligible doesn’t offset the fact that it is there. It may be optional, but there’s an entire group of gamers who think it feels required. I can totally respect the people who can look at ascended gear and say “Nope, that grind isn’t for me, and I’m not going to do it.” I just can’t do it. That’s why I loved Guild Wars, and why I hoped the dedication to horizontal progression would be maintained in its sequel. It takes so much psychological pressure off of me when I can say “Alright, I’m done gearing up. Time to have fun.” I don’t enjoy vertical progression, but I can’t stop doing it either. It’s part of my personality. You put that grind in front of me and I’ll keep hammering away at it, and hating you for it.

stale.9785:

Subdue, we’re never going to agree. That much is obvious. The fact that you’re now insisting that second best is equivalent to best shows that.

The most extreme damage difference would be on zerker gear, wherein the difference is roughly 13% in straight direct damage. Add to that the increased proc on crit (once more per 10 hits) and then the extra damage on crit (79% crit damage with ascended, vs 69% with exotics.) So, not only will the person in ascended gear hit for 13% more all the time, but on a crit, they’re going to hit for 10% extra damage, and they’re going to get a critical hit more often.

It’s not a huge difference, but it’s one that will win fights, everything else being equal. It’s something that becomes extremely notable when running glass cannon builds.

All of that adds to my objection, but at the core, it remains the part that you dismissed with a “yea, yea yea”. Sorry, your dismissal doesn’t make my complaint any less relevant.

Beyond that, they could have spent the dev hours wasted on the time gated, gear treadmill, satisfy-the-game-locusts garbage that outright reversed the premise they sold the game under creating something worthwhile.

One issue I have when people start tossing numbers out there is that the numbers represent a perfect offensive scenario, with no attempts by the defensive side to avoid, mitigate or by any other means counter the offense. The reality is that in practice the numbers are considerably smaller.

And once again… there is no gear treadmill. I’m getting the impression that you have no idea what a gear treadmill is, or even worse you actually do know and are deliberately using the term incorrectly in order to invoke an emotional response.

stale.9785:

The most extreme damage difference would be on zerker gear, wherein the difference is roughly 13% in straight direct damage. Add to that the increased proc on crit (once more per 10 hits) and then the extra damage on crit (79% crit damage with ascended, vs 69% with exotics.) So, not only will the person in ascended gear hit for 13% more all the time, but on a crit, they’re going to hit for 10% extra damage, and they’re going to get a critical hit more often.

See, this right here shows how misinformed you are. The 13% increase in damage that you’re so hung up on already includes critical strike chance, critical strike damage and so on. Do the math.

It’s not a huge difference, but it’s one that will win fights, everything else being equal. It’s something that becomes extremely notable when running glass cannon builds.

“Everything else being equal…” This has been part of your mantra the entire time. When, in WvW, has everything been equal? Certainly not when one side brings more players. Certainly not when one side has grinded more WXP levels and has access to more WXP boosted stats and effects. Certainly not when one side has spent more on siege, foods, etc. WvW has never, ever, been an “everything else being equal” scenario. Ascended items is merely another avenue.

Beyond that, they could have spent the dev hours wasted on the time gated, gear treadmill, satisfy-the-game-locusts garbage that outright reversed the premise they sold the game under creating something worthwhile.

Actually, I don’t recall them advertising on “no vertical progression.” In fact, vertical progression has been a part of the game from the very beginning. You don’t start off with exotic gear after all.

I despise and loathe Ascended gear. There are still aspects of the game that I like and I enjoy spending time with friends. But as I have stated before I am protesting in the only effective way available to me. I have not spent (nor will I ever spend) one cent of real money in the game since the Ascended unveiling. I have learned to be frugal and convert in-game money to gems when something catches my eye or I need another transmutation stone.

oh god. again here it comes.
uhm…
and what if nobody cares about gw1? or other treadmills…or don’t care if we absolutely need or not that equip to wvw or pve?
i think that this discussion will last forever…

VOLKON.1290:

Kevan, stop doing that to yourself. You don’t need ascended… it’s simply there as a final carrot for those that prefer to have a carrot to chase. Don’t ignore the rest of the salad bar because you can’t reach the carrot yet. I have no ascended weapons or armors yet, and I’m quite an active player. Yes, I’m taking my time working towards my first ascended piece, but in the WvW and PvE I do it’s not necessary and doesn’t hold me back in the slightest. Just stop worrying about something you don’t need to worry about. The pressure you’re feeling is self-inflicted.

talking only about my position:
the new BiS ascended and the grind required for getting them, is a problem, and i’ll never deal with it. i have no reasons for “obeying” anet
always in the future, when i login (if ill ever login again), as long as there are ascended, (and are the BiS, and can be acquired by crafting, which i’ll never max out to 500 because it’s expensive, time wasting and boring) i’ll feel a sense of frustration because something i want to have is precluded to me because i’ll never work on it , and even if would give an insignificant boot to my stats, i’ll feel it.

i think that also demostrating that:
-anet has the right to change the game at his will
-anet did keep its word
-ascended are equivalent to exotics for most game
(and, believe me, i disagree with every each of this reasons people try to prove my point of view wrong)
even if each point you show was true and i accepted it, it wouldn’t be sufficient to convince me that it’s the right game and i should continue to play it.
i used to love it because of what it was in the beginning, when i believed in BiS in a few hours (*i don’t want to know if i was right or not in interpreting manifersto or choosing to play a mmo, or if anet is right or not. it’s just what i like. please. i don’t need lessons about grammar or law or economy or mmo gameplay. i loved it, period),
in no gear new tiers, in no heavy grind.
simply, this conditions no longer exist.

i expressed my feeling in a “opinion” post, and really want to know if you prefer vertical progression or not, and why.
i (and i think anybody else) don’t need any lessons about why i should like gw2 the same ALTHOUGH they introduced ascended.
i don’t like them. period.

no flame wars. please, nobody convincing the others about why the others should or shouldn’t complain about it..but;
punctualizing what i meant to ask in the op…
-do you like vertical progression?
-if you dont like it,just like me, why ?
-or if you like it, why do you like it?

Kevan.8912:

as i didn t find a thread talking specifically about it except for old ones and struggles about manifesto, and i think it s “legal” to express my opinion pacifically…

i think that vertical progression hurts my gaming experience.
i feel forced doing dailies, world events, etc…because it s necessary to craft ascended, to avoid any “handicap” when playing with other better geared ppl.
don t care if it s relevant or not that stats difference in wvw o pve. just hate that.

i loved to grind for a title. for skins. i felt really motivated and found it a free choice.
vertical progression binds me to a sense of inferiority, grind like a necessary work to be done for a mandatory aim.
my two cents.

Why don’t those of us that could care less about skins get to have content. I am honestly tired of the skin mill that GW2 has going on.

Your not forced to do anything. Do what you like and other people will do what they like.

imsoenthused.1634:

No, I’m talking about the game that had a very short vertical progression period due to its low level cap, with easily attainable BiS gear, that I experienced years of unadulterated joy playing, and still load up and enjoy occasionally to this day. You know, the one that Guild Wars 2 makes me want to play all over again every time I load it up.

And yet you are ignoring the part about it being REQUIRED in order to even experience the MAIN STORY of the game, whilst in GW2 you can do every single thing in the whole game without doing any vertical progression other than leveling.

Kevan.8912:

-do you like vertical progression?
-if you dont like it,just like me, why ?
-or if you like it, why do you like it?

Could you have included an I Don’t Care option? That’s where I’m at. I’ve looked at it and I just can’t find a position where I like it or dislike. Not how its been implemented in this game anyway.