One thing that makes it harder to justify forcing dungeons on those who want to be equal in WvW is, this game was never marketed as mainly PvE and no one can say it was. So no one can come in and say why did you buy this game, PvP is just a side thing. PvE is the main thing.
ArenaNet on the other hand has tried to marginalize WvW by pointing out that sPvP isn’t affected by these changes. I suspect they want WvW as a side item for PvPers and sPvP to be the main dish.
Unfortunately, their sPvP isn’t nearly enjoyable for many of us as WvW has been. Their mistake, not ours. They should have designed bigger scale sPvP for one thing. For another, they should never have allowed premades in the unrated games, yet they are there, making pugging not an option for those of us who don’t like getting rolled.
“…we don’t expect you to be forced into dungeons at endgame.”
lol the amount of cry babies on this forum is astounding. Did you all migrate here from D3?
I didn’t. Why do we think we are crybabies? I am a casual player, i have exotics and could go up against people who had legendary/superior runes or something. Due to ascended gear, that fairness has gone.
My class still has major problems (engineer). Still about 4 traits are not fixed, weaponskills bugged, our kits (the thing our class is build around) do not scale up, so our runes+ sigils a worthless.
Why release new maps while your game is still buged as hell?
Aetra Ironbender, Rated E for Engineer- [WoT] Warlocks of Tyria- Far Shiverpeaks
Because not only is it completely going back on what the devs said they’d never do, it’s splintering an already piss-poor and empty community.
Now people will be demanding you have more powerful and rarer gear than before to play with them because otherwise they’ll complain you’re dragging them down. In the end, only the botters win.
GW2 was meant to be a game where both casual and hardcore players can play all the content together. This type of progression will segregate the community.
GW2 was meant to be a game where both casual and hardcore players can play all the content together. The way it is now will segregate the community.
Why couldn’t it have been infusion slots on exotics with no stat change. Then players can play the dungeons for skins and better infusions.
Because it seems many people can’t just play because something is actually fun, there has to be a + to their stats at the end and think that just because they spent 90hr doing the thing over and over again they should be better than everyone else without actually getting better at the game.
If +10 stats doesnt matter then why all the complaining? Think about it… Please explain to me how it ruins your experience at all? If you want to progress horizontally and focus on map clear and dynamic events and customizing the look of your armor what does +10 really matter? You can still do all those things. No one is here trying to stop you. Now that is if +10 in stats truly isn’t a big deal. Some qq on here seem to suggest it is a big deal and will unbalance WvW. So what is it? Either way, if you don’t like it. Stop playing. Go create your own game.
3 points or 12% is just a different way of saying the same thing
14% is more correct. I believe the exact number that was figured was something like 13.8% if memory serves, but that is just spling hairs.
The difference is, your +3 is just plain wrong Reggy my friend. The example item shown in the announcement itself had +5 power, +5 precion, and +3% magic find. It also had an empty slot to fill with an infusion, and we’ve found that infusions (fine grade) add another 5 to a stat. For a total of +15, and +3%.
After finding more examples than the initial one in the release, we’ve learned that the typical spread is +7, +5, +5, and the extra +5 from a fine infusion. For a total of +22… and that is per item.
+22… +3… hrm, yeah… how are those the same?
Not to ruin your math but does this consider empty upgrade slots for armors/weapons?
Your question is irrelevant in the way you ask it. But to answer the question I think you are trying to ask, yes, it accounts for the total difference in stats possible, not just the difference of an empty exotic vs empty ascended.
An upgraded Exotic ring with an exotic jewel will have 22 less stats than an Ascended ring with a fine infusion.
Ok so lets go from here. Assuming what you say is true then its a bigger stat upgrade. This stat upgrade is only necessary for 1 dungeon. Once again I still don’t see what all the complaints are about.
Because it infact isent for just that dungeon. Anyone wanting to be competitive in wvw has to have this gear or be at a disadvantage.
Wrong. You do not NEED this gear for WvWvW, if anything you WANT it. And in that way Arena Net has succeded.
Simply untrue and inaccurate. 20%+ improvements are needed to compete.
only thieves know how to play, they chant “L2P” every time their god mode is challenged.
If +10 stats doesnt matter then why all the complaining? Think about it… Please explain to me how it ruins your experience at all? If you want to progress horizontally and focus on map clear and dynamic events and customizing the look of your armor what does +10 really matter? You can still do all those things. No one is here trying to stop you. Now that is if +10 in stats truly isn’t a big deal. Some qq on here seem to suggest it is a big deal and will unbalance WvW. So what is it? Either way, if you don’t like it. Stop playing. Go create your own game.
Progression is like a snowball affect rolling downhill. It’s small at first but grows bigger over time.
Then all future content will now be made to cater to player who grind all day.
I don’t know why AN wants this because the rich players are the ones who grind and they don’t by gems with money.
If +10 stats doesnt matter then why all the complaining? Think about it… Please explain to me how it ruins your experience at all? If you want to progress horizontally and focus on map clear and dynamic events and customizing the look of your armor what does +10 really matter? You can still do all those things. No one is here trying to stop you. Now that is if +10 in stats truly isn’t a big deal. Some qq on here seem to suggest it is a big deal and will unbalance WvW. So what is it? Either way, if you don’t like it. Stop playing. Go create your own game.
Progression is like a snowball affect rolling downhill. It’s small at first but grows bigger over time.
Then all future content will now be made to cater to player who grind all day.
I don’t know why AN wants this because the rich players are the ones who grind and they don’t by gems with money.
The snow ball effect is a logical fallacy. It is not a valid argument against implementing the first minor content update.
slippery slope
You made out like if we allow A to happen, then Z will eventually happen too, therefore A should not happen.
The problem with this reasoning is that it avoids engaging with the issue at hand, and instead shifts attention to extreme hypotheticals. Because no proof is presented to show that such extreme hypotheticals will in fact occur, this fallacy has the form of an appeal to emotion fallacy by leveraging fear. In effect the argument at hand is unfairly tainted by unsubstantiated conjecture.
If +10 stats doesnt matter then why all the complaining? Think about it… Please explain to me how it ruins your experience at all? If you want to progress horizontally and focus on map clear and dynamic events and customizing the look of your armor what does +10 really matter? You can still do all those things. No one is here trying to stop you. Now that is if +10 in stats truly isn’t a big deal. Some qq on here seem to suggest it is a big deal and will unbalance WvW. So what is it? Either way, if you don’t like it. Stop playing. Go create your own game.
Thing thing is for those that like to do the other things to be of use to there friends should they be asked to join in on the random party they now have to grind out there gear all over again. Where as if they left stat tier alown they wouldent be useless. This is the problem with vertical progression. Those that dont do it get left behind. So even skilled players are rendered useless if they dont keep there gear up.
A new tier of gear (1 item) was released that adds a whopping 3 more stats to current best gear. Apparently this a low blow to the community.
Tell the truth.
That is the truth as far as I know
You’re wrong then. It has been calculated that non-max ascended is already 14% better than exotic. thats with FINE infusions. wait til you get masterwork, rare, exotic, ASCENDED infusions.
Sure new tier means its better, so what?
Lol regizer, since this update im seeying many more kiddies in this forums trolling threads, first they say its insignificant and when proven wrong they say “so what”?
As if they think we are ignorants and will forget that you were proven wrong, NT.
It only makes sense to say “so what” when it’s insignificant, little guy. Did you earn that gold star this week that I can be so proud of?
Which then means it makes no sense because insignificant would mean 0% having 1 more damage than someone else is an increase that ppl will go for, thats how the gaming community rolls and youre nothing but a troll as once again your post fail to make any point and u still are proven wrong.
Also i liked the way u called me a little guy when u dont know my height stature however i can easelly see from your posts youre just a kid, be it mentally or physically.
So you didn’t earn that gold star, I am very dissapointed.
I enjoyed GW2 very much recreationally, but I stopped playing a while ago awhile at lvl 25 for some reasons:
1. All my friends said the end-game is non-existant. Thats not neccessarily bad – but it didnt meet their expectations.
2. I didnt rly enjoy the pvp…was too confusing and I got overwhelmed with a lot of concepts in the game (like crafting for example)
Now I decided to give it a try again and I see a lot of people are complaining about the new patch. I’m curious, why is that, what has changed so substantionally ?
Casual ppl like you like their games simple, gw2 just got a little bit more involved, so carebears cry that they don’t get all their shiny toys at level 1 with no work. They think level cap should equal a ceiling on how powerful your character can get.
Others feel that they want their characters to grow in power past level 80, and that it gives the game longevity. Which in my opinion is correct. Level 80 is a boring place without progression. But some ppl want instant gratification without any work put in, and they fail to see the long term flaw with that design.
I enjoyed GW2 very much recreationally, but I stopped playing a while ago awhile at lvl 25 for some reasons:
1. All my friends said the end-game is non-existant. Thats not neccessarily bad – but it didnt meet their expectations.
2. I didnt rly enjoy the pvp…was too confusing and I got overwhelmed with a lot of concepts in the game (like crafting for example)
Now I decided to give it a try again and I see a lot of people are complaining about the new patch. I’m curious, why is that, what has changed so substantionally ?
Casual ppl like you like their games simple, gw2 just got a little bit more involved, so carebears cry that they don’t get all their shiny toys at level 1 with no work. They think level cap should equal a ceiling on how powerful your character can get.
Others feel that they want their characters to grow in power past level 80, and that it gives the game longevity. Which in my opinion is correct. Level 80 is a boring place without progression. But some ppl want instant gratification without any work put in, and they fail to see the long term flaw with that design.
way to be condescending. Casuals like us have full time jobs and prefer to fight players not mobs.
only thieves know how to play, they chant “L2P” every time their god mode is challenged.
If there was any justice the next pieces of Ascended would be available only through WvW. The outrage of PVE-only dungeon runners would make for some serious entertainment on this forum.
Enh, they’d just farm the jumping puzzles like people already do for Legendaries.
Because I bought a game advertised as an MMO without grinding for stats, and now I find that was a complete fabrication.
And it’s not a slippery slope fallacy by the way. Anet confirmed they intend to add ascended armor and weapons in too. Have fun with your exotics fighting people with noticeably higher stats and damage. I’m sure you won’t feel any pressure at all to grind for ascended gear.
This is about future content being accessible for all or only for some who like to grind.
It’s about more than that. It’s about never having the feeling of being “done” with your stat progression. They could easily mod exotics to carry infusions, but the underlying issue of them continuing to release gear(higher infusion tiers) that demote your gear form 100%“done and done” status to 98%“just about done” whenever they feel it is necessary to keep the grinders interested.
It’s about the desire of not having to put any more effort into your gear’s stats, and to concentrate on things that won’t make you more effective, even if it’s just +1DPS.
If a game can’t provide me with this sense of closure, I can’t enjoy it.
Did your exotics really just become obsolete? Are they now absolutely useless? Are other new dungeons going to use the Agony effect? The answer to all three is no.
Why do people complain? A good question indeed. A simple answer would be to say that people complain out of necessity. Here we face unique circumstances, however. Here, we have a population of gamers who risked nothing but $60 to play this game, a one-time fee. This $60, apparently, has made some feel as if it pays for not only the game but for a leash around the neck of the lead developers of this game. When their little fragile expectations of how amazing and ecstasy-inducing this game will be are shattered like so much glass, they abuse this supposed right of theirs to legitimize a campaign of hate against their so-called oppressors. Others join in this complaining in order to feel as part of a community, with the youth culture, and culture in general these days being primarily composed of dichotomies of hate.
Grand Master of The Knights Hospitaller [STJ]
Isle of Janthir – Sylvari Mesmer – Alexandre Le Grande
Did your exotics really just become obsolete? Are they now absolutely useless? Are other new dungeons going to use the Agony effect? The answer to all three is no.
You ask and you answer?! Interesting way to discuss something with other people.
Guess I know now how your discussions look like. Disagreeing with you = bad.
This world needs more people being frank and less people being offended.
I don’t understand why people are so upset… It’s ONE new tier with fairly minor stat upgrades! Not several with the previous being required to get the next tier up. Start complaining and calling it a “gear treadmill” when/if Anet start releasing new tiers (which are required to be viable) every other month.
You can run around WvW and fight and do stuff naked. People have.
Armor itself isn’t really a requirement to do stuff, except for the new Fractals dungeon. And only when you get to the point of needing to mitigate agony.
Some people are upset because they see the new Ascended armor as the first step down the slippery slope of gear progression and gated content. Which they didn’t want. At least that’s the only answer I’ve found so far that makes any sense.
Your rings have, yes. They are very much last year’s model. New and Improved Rings have them entirely outclassed.
And then in the next update — they promise — they’ll add an amulet, or pants, or whatever. Slow it up for you so you can grind for everything in stages, you know?
You can run around WvW and fight and do stuff naked. People have.
Just because you can do something it doesn’t mean it is effective lol. Given the choice between using a hammer or my fist for hitting a nail, I normally choose the hammer.
I honestly think people are just over reacting to all this. We don’t even know if FotM will become the next big dungeon to do. From my point of view, it’s just somthing that the people who have been complaning about endgame want, with some minor state upgrades as rewards, and Agony as there difficulty progression.
Also tell me: When has stats really mattered? Really? Do you think 14% more stats will make you a God Slayer who can own a mob of players in WvW without even loosing 5% HP? Do you think it’ll make you into the ultimate Dragon Slayer who can one shot Shatterer or Claw of Jormag? From my view point? No, it’s just a little reward for people who want to fell more powerful. In a 1v1 sence of WvW, yes it’ll make it unfair, but from a 40 v 40? and 10 players on each side have ascended? I don’t think it’ll be the winning or loosing decider.
Also tell me: When has stats really mattered? Really? Do you think 14% more stats will make you a God Slayer who can own a mob of players in WvW without even loosing 5% HP? Do you think it’ll make you into the ultimate Dragon Slayer who can one shot Shatterer or Claw of Jormag? From my view point? No, it’s just a little reward for people who want to fell more powerful. In a 1v1 sence of WvW, yes it’ll make it unfair, but from a 40 v 40? and 10 players on each side have ascended? I don’t think it’ll be the winning or loosing decider.
When you make something, you cant simply think
“oh ok, in WvW there is always a zerg, so if a player have +50% on stats, it doesnt make difference”
HELL NO!
If you balance something, you have to balance all the aspects! not only 40vs40, but also 1v1, with same skill, same connession…that is balance!
and this new +% stats from ascendend, for WvW is a bad choice. all this new ascended theory is a bad choice.
Because, like Guild Wars before it, GW2 doesn’t fall into the traps of traditional MMORPGs.
It doesn’t suck your life away and force you onto a grinding treadmill"
LOL
Do you think 14% more stats will make you a God Slayer who can own a mob of players in WvW without even loosing 5% HP?
I think 14% more hp or damage or armor will sometimes be the difference in close fights. Which are some of the more interesting fights to have, you know?
Also tell me: When has stats really mattered? Really? Do you think 14% more stats will make you a God Slayer who can own a mob of players in WvW without even loosing 5% HP? Do you think it’ll make you into the ultimate Dragon Slayer who can one shot Shatterer or Claw of Jormag? From my view point? No, it’s just a little reward for people who want to fell more powerful.
You’re confusing apologism for an argument. When you have a choice between making a change and not making a change, and someone presents you with a concrete argument against making that change, it’s not enough to say “It’ll be bad but it won’t be that bad”. You have to present an argument that explains why you think it will be good.
“So some people can feel a little more powerful” is not a persuasive argument, given the numerous problems with Ascended gear that have been pointed out, again and again.
Again, these are my opinions. It just seems to early to jump to conclusions. Who knows, maby after all the slots can be filled with Ascended gear, Ascended gear can be crafted by respective Armorsmiths, Leatherworkers, Tailers and such. Effectivly rasising the gar line to Ascended and making FotM optional content (By then more content should have come out.)
A new tier of gear (1 item) was released that adds a whopping 3 more stats to current best gear. Apparently this a low blow to the community.
That is for 1 piece, add that up for every piece of gear you can equip, adds up.
And after reading the developers postings, the new gear will be needed for upcoming new content not just the new dungeon.
And after the ascendant? new tier? there are too many things that simply are in the wrong place.
1) stats of the ascendend gear: it was supposed to be sligh, but if you look the wiki, its not… ascended items have different grade and the rarer one is a lot stronger then an exotic one.
exotic ruby ring with gem is
82 power , 6% crit, 63 precision
rare ruby ring with gem
80 power 5% crit, 55 precision
im the one that see a huge gap from the old equipment and the asceded ones? even if they let the ascended item to WvW vendor, the stats gap its simply too huge.
Because, like Guild Wars before it, GW2 doesn’t fall into the traps of traditional MMORPGs.
It doesn’t suck your life away and force you onto a grinding treadmill"
LOL
So you are saying I don’t need infused Ascended in order to push deeper into Fractal Dungeons? ArenaNet did indicate I would be required to get this new tier in harder difficulties.
In the upcoming Fractals of the Mists dungeon, we’ll introduce a new monster condition called Agony.
This extremely dangerous condition ticks percentages of player health away and can’t be cleansed by normal means. Players who wish to delve deep into the Fractals will find that Agony makes progress increasingly difficult, until they reach the point where some defense against this condition is a must. The only way to mitigate Agony damage is by building up resistance through Infusions, a new type of upgrade component that can be acquired in the Mystic Forge.
And Infusions can only be applied to Ascended gear.
Ah ok. Though this mechanic only applies to this one dungeon so whats the problem?
They also said that it will form the basis of all the new content, and that old content will eventually be adjusted for ascended-equipped characters.
They also said they cannot promise there will be no new “item progression” initiatives.
Actions, not words.
Remember, remember, 15th of November
If +10 stats doesnt matter then why all the complaining? Think about it… Please explain to me how it ruins your experience at all? If you want to progress horizontally and focus on map clear and dynamic events and customizing the look of your armor what does +10 really matter? You can still do all those things. No one is here trying to stop you. Now that is if +10 in stats truly isn’t a big deal. Some qq on here seem to suggest it is a big deal and will unbalance WvW. So what is it? Either way, if you don’t like it. Stop playing. Go create your own game.
Thing thing is for those that like to do the other things to be of use to there friends should they be asked to join in on the random party they now have to grind out there gear all over again. Where as if they left stat tier alown they wouldent be useless. This is the problem with vertical progression. Those that dont do it get left behind. So even skilled players are rendered useless if they dont keep there gear up.
Right but its just a +10 increase in stats. At least that’s what was said earlier. It sounds like a very minor bump.
Right but now its a moot point, so we don’t even have to worry about the whole principle of the thing, the current gap in stats is atrocious. This is more of a gear treadmill than most gear treadmill games.
Those who want this kind of change or simply don’t care.
Those who don’t want it but realise the long term implications that a change like this will have for the game (gear grind, content gating, stat-creeping).
Those who simply don’t understand.
Arenanet have just implemented a skinner box into their game with this update, a design mechanic that ultimately would have us all turned into trained and obedient consumers (i.e. conditioned lab animals). People have every right to be upset about that.
Problem I have with yesterday’s release isn’t that they set a new set of geat between Exotic and legendary that was OK
no problem with that
I had issues with the Infusions you people just think the Fine Infusions are the end?
They wont add more gear, they are going to add Masterwork through Legendary Infusions to buff stats and whatever resistances hey decide to add from yesterday forward
How long to farm mats etc for oh say a Legendary infusion 5 hours 40, 60 80 what?
The gear isn’t going to be the new grind getting newer and better Infusions will be. the treadmill will work off that.
Since they also plan to use this system to build all future content going forward, if yyou don’t have it you certainly are gated for content thats my beef add all the tiers u want betweem legendary and exotic just font be so sneaky about the rel grind the wonderful infusions that will be needed as they add a new resistance or increase mob HP and damage.
As the infusions get better the mobs will have to also it only works that way.
Thing of doing Any starter dungeon at wow with MoTP top gear
I’d like to point you to the passage:
“This is just the beginning. In November, we’re only adding the first level of Infusions and Ascended Rings and Back slots, so that leaves us a lot of room to build upon these levels of Item progression in future content.
As we release more new end game content in the future, you’ll see more Infusions and Ascended item types being added to the game. Eventually, you’ll be able to kit yourself out with a full set of Ascended gear and high end Infusions to help give you the edge in end game content."
I think that the message is clear. Future content will be built up on Ascended items and Infusion mechanic, and these will be designed for all end-game content. Not just for one dungeon. This post suggests as well that there will be other mechanics than agony that will be introduced later on. Whether they will require a new type of dedicated infusions, or a new tier of gears is, of course, only a guess.
At the moment i can’t find where they said that old content will be adjusted as well – i think it was in one of the forum posts, not the blog, but i lost the link.
Actions, not words.
Remember, remember, 15th of November
A new tier of gear (1 item) was released that adds a whopping 3 more stats to current best gear. Apparently this a low blow to the community.
There are many many items that have been discovered/datamined showing a muuuch larger increase in stats, around 16% and thats without the infusions. Infusions give stats as well, then add to that the hours necessary for to grind out for such an item. It is a complete reversal on stance and design of the game on Anets part.
Many players that actually researched their purchase were glad to know there was a stat cieling that was easily obtainable and the progression was horizontal (skills, skins, content, puzzles, pvp maps, exploration etc.). To raise the ceiling and set the precedent for more to follow is a very bad thing. Theres a reason I stopped playing MMOs, I found big crits enjoying and addictive when i was a kid/teenager but as an adult I stopped caring a long time ago and saw it for what it was, an artificial content drive with no real value, if you make the monsters stronger and you get stronger you basically moved nowhere.
Then there are ignorant defenders such as yourself which are days and days behind the news.
If +10 stats doesnt matter then why all the complaining? Think about it… Please explain to me how it ruins your experience at all? If you want to progress horizontally and focus on map clear and dynamic events and customizing the look of your armor what does +10 really matter? You can still do all those things. No one is here trying to stop you. Now that is if +10 in stats truly isn’t a big deal. Some qq on here seem to suggest it is a big deal and will unbalance WvW. So what is it? Either way, if you don’t like it. Stop playing. Go create your own game.
Thing thing is for those that like to do the other things to be of use to there friends should they be asked to join in on the random party they now have to grind out there gear all over again. Where as if they left stat tier alown they wouldent be useless. This is the problem with vertical progression. Those that dont do it get left behind. So even skilled players are rendered useless if they dont keep there gear up.
Right but its just a +10 increase in stats. At least that’s what was said earlier. It sounds like a very minor bump.
They spent ages selling the game on the basis gear progression would be cosmetic only, that people would be able to attain the top level of gear (exotic – stat wise) in a number of ways (dungeosn, WvW, crafting, karma, AH), so were free to play how they want and the game was non-grind. (read their worthless manifesto)
A mere 3 months in to the game they did a complete u-turn and have introduced a new tier of gear above exotics and decided to make legnedary gear have better stats also, the new tier is only available by grinding thier kitteny dungeons, they will of course introduce more gear else it would be pointless to introduce just this batch.
So quite rightly many people who bought the game on the actual basis it was sold to them, not wanting another kitteny WoW/EQ clone are not happy at being lied to.
They have gone from being an MMO that was tying to things differnently to just another crappy WoW/EQ clone, apparently the general failure of these clones to keep players and pull people away from WoW hasn’t put them off, much like the concept of integrity.
Why is this bad? Because I’m already at a disadvantage in WvW due to only having rare gear. There’s a 14% increase in ascended armor over exotic already, and we know that there’s going to be legendary gear now as well, which will probably add another 14%. As it is, I will be almost 50% behind in stats compared to the high end grinder players. As I enjoy playing my game to play it instead of grinding, I don’t know when I’ll get exotic gear, especially with the sudden price increases on ecto (14s at Halloween to 24s now, and still going) at this rate I’m going to never get even a single legendary weapon.
Thinking about it, legendary items will have the same crappy ridiculous requirements to get, so getting a full set of legendary weapons/gear will really make game a grind. I spent less time playing GW1 and got further ahead in it than I have in this game. Say hello to the newest Korean MMO.
This will be a factor in WvW and those who do not think so either haven’t played games where PvP was implemented or have forgotten about it.
This will also be a factor for even casual PvE players if ANet continues to build on the concept for the next dungeon and the next dungeon and the next tier of equipment, because it creates the same gated issues that plauge other games.
Only one who wins are the ones that like to grind dungeons. Problem is – many of them aren’t going to shift to this game because you can grind PvE content in a number of games where many already have strong ties to existing characters.
I simply fail to see why ANet would mess over the WvW players like this. Perhaps we weren’t as many as they expected or didn’t leave as many money in the Gem shop as expected?
Oh well – I still see no PvE grind in PlanetSide 2- it’s looking better and better each patch of GW2.
I think more people are upset over the fact of being lied to then the actual impact of the new stats, no matter how small they are (for now). If Anet never made a promise like they did, there would most likely be less people complaining and they have the right to. Sure it’s no surprize that a lot of companies go against their word at one time or another, a lot of people felt Anet was going to be the one to set the bar higher and not reinvent the wheel. They’ve justified their decisions and the reasons are understandable, but they still shy away of admitting any wrong doing on their part. With as big a fan base as they have, showing some humility when they’ve got their fans in an uproar would possibly earn them more respect than pretending they are unfallible.
