Guild Wars 2

What is the community stance on MF Runes? I’d like to confess that I do actually use Berserker armor/weapons, and Valkyrie Trinkets, but I slot my armor with Traveler Runes..

Psybunny.8906:

You have no argument to make me support MF, because it gives me nothing if you wear it.

So if I wear Cleric(healing, power, toughness) an only use self heal skills(no party wide heals) I’m more helpful than a magic find guy? How? I’m doing less damage than a guy with explorer due to lack of precision and the only thing I’m doing better is tanking. Yet no amount of toughness and vitality would make someone survive a 1 shot kill hit from a boss. Doing less damage means I’m slowing down my party even more than a magic find guy, yet people hate them more.

Removing magic find wont solve anything. People will then say: you have too much toughness and vitality. Get a berserker gear and learn to dodge because otherwise you’re slowing us down.

Sharkinu.8096:

Psybunny.8906:

You have no argument to make me support MF, because it gives me nothing if you wear it.

So if I wear Cleric(healing, power, toughness) an only use self heal skills(no party wide heals) I’m more helpful than a magic find guy? How? I’m doing less damage than a guy with explorer due to lack of precision and the only thing I’m doing better is tanking. Yet no amount of toughness and vitality would make someone survive a 1 shot kill hit from a boss. Doing less damage means I’m slowing down my party even more than a magic find guy, yet people hate them more.

Removing magic find wont solve anything. People will then say: you have too much toughness and vitality. Get a berserker gear and learn to dodge because otherwise you’re slowing us down.

Using Cleric gear to increase self heals benefits the group by increasing your uptime. Uptime is just as important as damage done. Having one player constantly go down and require others to stop DPS and place themselves in dangerous positions in order to rez someone who can’t stay up takes away from groups, too.

You see:

Glass Cannon go down but offer high DPS when up.
Bunker offer less DPS but stay up longer and deflect aggro/damage from others.

Magic Find offers nothing to the group.

Sharkinu.8096:

Psybunny.8906:

You have no argument to make me support MF, because it gives me nothing if you wear it.

So if I wear Cleric(healing, power, toughness) an only use self heal skills(no party wide heals) I’m more helpful than a magic find guy? How? I’m doing less damage than a guy with explorer due to lack of precision and the only thing I’m doing better is tanking. Yet no amount of toughness and vitality would make someone survive a 1 shot kill hit from a boss. Doing less damage means I’m slowing down my party even more than a magic find guy, yet people hate them more.

It’s because your gear could CONCEIVABLY be more useful than a different piece of gear.
Explorer’s is worse than Knight’s or Berserker’s in combat no matter what.
Cleric’s is known as a side-grade. Meaning it performs a different function, and it’s not directly comparable.
Explorer’s is a strict downgrade from Knight’s or Berserker’s in combat.

I would personally would like to see it just removed as a stat option for gear/food and simply left as a guild perk and premium feature (boosters) with perhaps a loot drop adjustment to accommodate the overall less MF OR a buff to the booster. It’s difficult to justify the price of the booster as is really.

or at least give the rest of the party a chance to benefit from the other players MF. With the rarity of items already, it hardly seems game breaking to stack the parties MF additively, or at least multiplicative. Give a group of well organized friends the option to stack MF with the whole group if they really want to stack the risk:reward ratio.

edit: also, I would like to point out that stacking healing and playing a class that only uses self heals is still a lot more helpful to the group considering you are increasing your longevity. Players constantly stopping to save and soon revive (because of the change to WP spam in dungeons) can be incredibly counterproductive.

Sharkinu.8096:

Psybunny.8906:

You have no argument to make me support MF, because it gives me nothing if you wear it.

So if I wear Cleric(healing, power, toughness) an only use self heal skills(no party wide heals) I’m more helpful than a magic find guy? How? I’m doing less damage than a guy with explorer due to lack of precision and the only thing I’m doing better is tanking. Yet no amount of toughness and vitality would make someone survive a 1 shot kill hit from a boss. Doing less damage means I’m slowing down my party even more than a magic find guy, yet people hate them more.

Removing magic find wont solve anything. People will then say: you have too much toughness and vitality. Get a berserker gear and learn to dodge because otherwise you’re slowing us down.

But the presence of toughness in your gear will tend to attract aggro away from other players and the extra healing in your gear will allow you to tank better too.

I think its ok as long as they aren’t dying all the time I don’t mind (plus why would I mind if theres really no way to know). :P

I don’t like the argument that if you aren’t using magic find, you are using more ability and skill in playing, somehow making you more deserving of better, more frequent drops.

…if anything, using magic find actually requires more skill during gameplay, since you are gimping yourself and your stats. Sure, you get more drops, but you aren’t as effective by the numbers… ergo, more skill is required to stay on part with those without magic find.

roachsrealm.9284:

I don’t like the argument that if you aren’t using magic find, you are using more ability and skill in playing, somehow making you more deserving of better, more frequent drops.

…if anything, using magic find actually requires more skill during gameplay, since you are gimping yourself and your stats. Sure, you get more drops, but you aren’t as effective by the numbers… ergo, more skill is required to stay on part with those without magic find.

Which is all well and good for soloing, but in a group, it makes it so you’re doing less, which means your group is doing less, which means everyone has to do more.
So you’re making the rest of your group do more work so that you, and you alone, get better drops.

If in a dungeon I don’t have a level 80 food item active it means my groups has to do more work. If I don’t have strong potion of slaying which fits for the mob type we’re going to encounter then it means my group has to do more work. I don’t see people blaming you for not using food and potions.

Sharkinu.8096:

If in a dungeon I don’t have a level 80 food item active it means my groups has to do more work. If I don’t have strong potion of slaying which fits for the mob type we’re going to encounter then it means my group has to do more work. I don’t see people blaming you for not using food and potions.

Food and potions are additional expenses. But if you have exotic Explorer’s obviously you could have gotten something objectively more useful (Berserker’s or Knight’s) instead of gimping your group for money.

Sharkinu.8096:

If in a dungeon I don’t have a level 80 food item active it means my groups has to do more work. If I don’t have strong potion of slaying which fits for the mob type we’re going to encounter then it means my group has to do more work. I don’t see people blaming you for not using food and potions.

Which would be perfectly reasonable, because in that case, you would not be intentionally going out of your way to gimp yourself for entirely personal gain.

It’s simple.

You use magic find gear, you’re effectiveness to the group drops. Thus making the group have to work harder because of your selfishness. You’re either doing less DPS or go down much easier, either way you’re making the group carry you more. Using magic find brings nothing at all positive to the group, which is why it’s frowned upon.

So go ahead and use it if you want, but don’t claim you’re just as effective with it, that’s a flat out lie.

Lafiel.9372:

. . .

If a player sucks, hes gonna suck regardless what gear he wears, if a player is good, he’s gonna shine even if hes wearing blues.

. . .
tldr: this game isn’t wow, numbers isn’t what defines your player ability, real skill is.

But he’ll shine brighter in optimal gear.

Really, people should stop using skill as an excuse – it’s a separate factor unrelated to to magic find.

Also, both stats and skill define how well you do. If skill is constant then the player with better gear will do better, it’s that simple.
Example-

Saying “but if he’s more skilled…” is just avoiding the point of mf gear being weaker. Guess what? The guy in normal armor can be skilled too, it’s not like people who use mf gear are magically more skilled than those with normal gear, which seems to be implied in almost every argument doesn’t impede performance. And even if they are more skilled, switching to normal armor for the dungeon doesn’t result in a sudden drop of said skill.

…if anything, using magic find actually requires more skill during gameplay

It requires more skill to have equal contribution yes, but that doesn’t mean the player will have that skill or be more likely to have it.

I’ve hated the concept of mf since diablo 2 and that wasn’t even as team focused. It just seems so stupid to me that you wear mf gear to get new gear that you aren’t going to wear because you’re using mf gear all the time.

In a mmo it’s even worse because you punish the person who brings his A game with less drops than the guy who isn’t.

To me, Magic Find gear seems like some weird remnant of single-player RPGs. It would be a valuable talent to consider when putting together a balanced party of characters who are all managed by one person in a self-contained setting. Like, maybe you include a thief-type character who is not physically the strongest, but can detect traps, pick locks, and has much higher luck to find more gold and hidden items.

It’s completely inappropriate in an MMO where any kind of teamwork is required. Instead of the item-finder character being a cog in a greater machine, each player is a self-contained entity in their own right. Magic Find only benefits that one player, rather than the party at large.

When people make excuses like “this game is more about skill than stats,” it really misses the point. The other players can be just as skilled or unskilled as you — and there’s no particular reason to assume a player focused on Magic Find is more skilled than anyone else.

So what, if you say you’re better than the rest of the group, even in Magic Find gear? Even ignoring the idea that I’m supposed to just take you at your word on that, are you saying that your “skill” is what gives you license to intentionally wreck your build with a stat that has no value whatsoever to a group? Am I supposed to just believe that everyone out there is honest enough with themselves to not stack Magic Find unless they are one of the absolute top-performing players in the game? I can understand the appeal of MF as much as anyone, and there’s nothing about that stat that would seem to attract a higher proportion of players with superior ability and situational awareness. No one “earns” Magic Find through being awesome at GW2. On the contrary, it’s already written all over their gear that a MF-stacking player has chosen their own short-term profitability over their character’s long-term efficacy. They may be good at the game, but they clearly do not value being as good as they can be, in one of the most concrete and elementary ways possible.

I find myself having to laugh at all this argument about magic find. It’s all a moot point anyway. When you’re playing the game the only person you’re responsible to for your armor is yourself. You are in no way obligated to post your armor, describe your stats, or state your build. Anybody who doesn’t like that, tough luck. If I’m joining a group I’m not posting my equipment as an entry fee, nor am I going to buy more than one set of armor per character unless I dang well feel like it. And if that set of armor is based on MF, that’s my business, not yours. You don’t like it? I’ll find another group, plain and simple. That’s all the argument anyone needs. Your math, your figures, your statistics, your examples, all irrelevant.

Have we finally come to a conclusion yet?

What’s wrong with good ole fashioned armor and normal drop rates? Silly to get gear to get gear, I mean in WoW it makes sense because of progression; however in GW2 you’re not progressing in gear, you are using gear to get gear to…?

Sharkinu.8096:

Psybunny.8906:

You have no argument to make me support MF, because it gives me nothing if you wear it.

So if I wear Cleric(healing, power, toughness) an only use self heal skills(no party wide heals) I’m more helpful than a magic find guy? How? I’m doing less damage than a guy with explorer due to lack of precision and the only thing I’m doing better is tanking. Yet no amount of toughness and vitality would make someone survive a 1 shot kill hit from a boss. Doing less damage means I’m slowing down my party even more than a magic find guy, yet people hate them more.

Removing magic find wont solve anything. People will then say: you have too much toughness and vitality. Get a berserker gear and learn to dodge because otherwise you’re slowing us down.

Mind illuminating me about those one shot bosses. Haven’t encountered any so far and I run full glass. But yes, you’re more useful with clerics, even if you only use selfheals. Since you’re tankier, hard to kill and as a result have bigger sustained damage/take aggro from others with your high toughness etc. You tried to make your example with a non-logical gear choice, but it still fails. MF is still worse since it offers nothing, so compared to something that offers very little in that setting like cleric, it’s still less than that. What’s your next example, stacking condition damage on a non condition class? Choosing the non-optimal gear for your build isn’t an argument in gear type discussion.

Survivability vs damage stats are a line of balance between tankiness/pressure relief from you and group vs pure damage output. People have different tastes in that, but your last point is actually true. In a perfect setting, that’s it. You become more and more skillful, so you can sacrifice even more and more survivability without lowering your uptime on mobs since you can mitigate it by reflexes and correct timing.

I never ask anyone to link me their gear, but seeing the overall attitude of MF users and the silly justification of a choice that has no logical explanation other than selfishness has made me second guess my current tolerance. If it’s your choice to choose whatever armor you wear, then it’s my choice to instakick whoever I see popping up with a luck stack/spawned parrot/etc.

I have few lvl80s and I use regular gear/trinkets and MF runes on one of them and now I am thinking about just using regular ones. Leaving the permanent DR curse that quite a few of us are having aside, will I be happier without a MF in the game? yes because I can try different runes without feeling I am left behind some other guys who’re running the inflation up the ceiling.

I don’t get the “I am so skillful, I can do equally good with MF gear and better than the next guy” argument. Should Anet remove all stats since you really dont care about +vit or +tough or +pow and it’s all about skill? Or do you think you should have the choice to nerf yourself for better loot cause the next less skillful guy is freeriding on your skills (due to no choice of his own).

The point of the topic is will the overall community be happier without MF? From what I can tell, people who are ok with MF gear aren’t claiming it makes the gaming experience a lot better, and the ones who aren’t OK are saying it’s bad. Then there are all the bugs/DR that make the experience a lot worse. So shouldn’t the conclusion be that MF should be removed? I side with the people that if a whole dungeon team is on MF gear, that dungeon will be more difficult, so if one is doing it, it’s freeriding on choice. It’s not the end of the world, the least skillful player by definition is always freeriding, but at least it’s not by choice.

If you want to get rewarded for taking on challenges and being more skillful than others, Anet should create different difficulty tiers in dungeons. Fractals sort of achieve that. I am sorry but running DEs to farm stuff with 100 others in ORR is hardly challenging so you shouldn’t be rewarded extra for MF gear, or just being one of the lucky ones that keep on getting rares/lodestones when the guy next to you is getting nothing with same gear due to complexity of the system that Anet can’t seem to decipher themselves for 2-3 months despite numerous complaints.

Sharkinu.8096:

Psybunny.8906:

You have no argument to make me support MF, because it gives me nothing if you wear it.

So if I wear Cleric(healing, power, toughness) an only use self heal skills(no party wide heals) I’m more helpful than a magic find guy? How? I’m doing less damage than a guy with explorer due to lack of precision and the only thing I’m doing better is tanking. Yet no amount of toughness and vitality would make someone survive a 1 shot kill hit from a boss. Doing less damage means I’m slowing down my party even more than a magic find guy, yet people hate them more.

Removing magic find wont solve anything. People will then say: you have too much toughness and vitality. Get a berserker gear and learn to dodge because otherwise you’re slowing us down.

Actually, he would help his group far more. He wears healing power along with toughness and power, granting him much much more survivability than any MF person could have, all while still having decent offensive power. He also brings alot of aggro to the table due to healing bonuses and toughness.

And there are no 1 shot kill bosses really if you have high toughness, unless you are really slow to react (legendary grawl shammy after bubble breaks). There are however plenty of bosses that would one shot a MF geared player or a berserker player. Still the berserker player has much more damage output, a trade off for offensive power over staying power.

MF users just dont preform at an optimal level for whatever they wanna do. MF soaks up a vital stat for a very minimal selfish gain. The stat is worthless. As I said before, people just dont know how to calculate their effective MF bonus so they think they have a super high chance of getting more loot. While in the end, your chance to find rarer loot is still very low.

Facepunch.5710:

Sitael.4680:

Mirta.5029:

What I’m saying is that magic find works, …

Last week we just made a test (i wanted to kow it): [….].

No, you have not performed a test. Repeat this 100+ times and you have performed a test.

You right, but I have done that test in Orr. More than 100 times, but after the november update MF don’t work for me. The test in the Fractals was just a quick re-check.

So now people need their builds and play styles vetted by their groups? Isn’t this one of the obnoxious behaviors we want to avoid? The Guild Wars 2 philosophy is play the way you like. Respect the choices of others. Don’t be a dick.

Peace

LOCO.1785:

It’s simple.

You use magic find gear, you’re effectiveness to the group drops. Thus making the group have to work harder because of your selfishness. You’re either doing less DPS or go down much easier, either way you’re making the group carry you more. Using magic find brings nothing at all positive to the group, which is why it’s frowned upon.

So go ahead and use it if you want, but don’t claim you’re just as effective with it, that’s a flat out lie.

1) I use PVT rare armor.
2) I use MF rare armor and nobody in the group goes down.

Which scenario am I less effective in, keeping in mind that MF has Power AND precision.

The only answer is 1 or 2. You don’t have to make more scenarios because I can play that game too. I’m just showing that sometimes (not all the time) MF is actually better.

Ethics.4519:

LOCO.1785:

It’s simple.

You use magic find gear, you’re effectiveness to the group drops. Thus making the group have to work harder because of your selfishness. You’re either doing less DPS or go down much easier, either way you’re making the group carry you more. Using magic find brings nothing at all positive to the group, which is why it’s frowned upon.

So go ahead and use it if you want, but don’t claim you’re just as effective with it, that’s a flat out lie.

1) I use PVT rare armor.
2) I use MF rare armor and nobody in the group goes down.

Which scenario am I less effective in, keeping in mind that MF has Power AND precision.

The only answer is 1 or 2. You don’t have to make more scenarios because I can play that game too. I’m just showing that sometimes (not all the time) MF is actually better.

You forgot 3. berserker gear. It exists, you know?
Yes, if you eliminate all the better options, then by definition the last one remaining is the best remaining – it doesn’t mean however it was ever good. It just means you have willingly ignored everything better.

I run MF gear, get some more decent loot from baby mobs in dungeons, not very good, but better crap loot lets say. I go with my group and kick kitten I don’t go down as often as teammates, I deal high burst damage and always remain on task. So what if I lose one stat using it? I know how to play the game, and do everything to support my team that is in my power. The problem is the player, not the stat. By this logic I hear, you’re automatically a better player (skill and tactics-wise) if you don’t run MF, which doesn’t make sense and is wrong. As long as you know what you’re doing, you can run a dungeon with full MF and Pirate Runes. Teamwork, not an individual’s stats, make all the difference.

Astralporing.1957:

You forgot 3. berserker gear. It exists, you know?

And once again we reached the real core problem. Is not the existence of magic find is the obsession for numbers and DPS. Is not the MF vs usefull gear; is Berserker’s vs anything else.

Most of the people here can clear dungeons just fine on masterwork gear let alone exotic, so this is not about the times you run through the dungeon in say 35 minutes running full MF gear.
1) If you’re skillful, you can finish the same dungeon probably in 30 mins with berserker gear, saving time for everyone else as well
2) All other stats are shared among the team in one way or the other except MF (though I’ve heard people say otherwise)
3) There will be one instance where you will not be yourself and die early because you didnt have enough dps/vit whatever.

The discussion of whether MF hurts the team or not has a clear answer. It does, unless loot is shared. However people play around with suboptimal test builds e.t.c so the aim is not to optimize to everyone’s benefit, it’s to enjoy the game. Some choices will be a bit more selfish as long as people realize that they are. MF is one of them.

Does MF add to the enjoyment of the game? Does it make your dungeon run more fun or shorter so you can do more of it? Or are you trying to fix some drop rate table at the cost of more quality time in the game, which again is broken for various people with or without MF?

Without MF, I really believe the game will be better. With MF, I just dont think we can discriminate against the wearers of these sets as it’s just a game and we all have potentially selfish choices, and let’s be honest, I rather have a team oriented guy with MF than a selfish DPS warrior in a pug who keeps on spamming wtf because people wont res him the 4th time around in the middle of red circles.

xCrusadentx.2784:

I run MF gear, get some more decent loot from baby mobs in dungeons, not very good, but better crap loot lets say. I go with my group and kick kitten I don’t go down as often as teammates, I deal high burst damage and always remain on task. So what if I lose one stat using it? I know how to play the game, and do everything to support my team that is in my power. The problem is the player, not the stat. By this logic I hear, you’re automatically a better player (skill and tactics-wise) if you don’t run MF, which doesn’t make sense and is wrong. As long as you know what you’re doing, you can run a dungeon with full MF and Pirate Runes. Teamwork, not an individual’s stats, make all the difference.

if you wear Berserker’s, you would add “-ER” to the awesome adjectives that you used. Like instead of “high burst damage” it would be “high-er burst damage”, which is “awesome-er”

Astralporing.1957:

You forgot 3. berserker gear. It exists, you know?
Yes, if you eliminate all the better options, then by definition the last one remaining is the best remaining – it doesn’t mean however it was ever good. It just means you have willingly ignored everything better.

Perfect! So then change the name of this thread to “why do people use anything other than berseker gear?”

Thank you for proving an excellent point

Ethics.4519:

LOCO.1785:

It’s simple.

You use magic find gear, you’re effectiveness to the group drops. Thus making the group have to work harder because of your selfishness. You’re either doing less DPS or go down much easier, either way you’re making the group carry you more. Using magic find brings nothing at all positive to the group, which is why it’s frowned upon.

So go ahead and use it if you want, but don’t claim you’re just as effective with it, that’s a flat out lie.

1) I use PVT rare armor.
2) I use MF rare armor and nobody in the group goes down.

Which scenario am I less effective in, keeping in mind that MF has Power AND precision.

The only answer is 1 or 2. You don’t have to make more scenarios because I can play that game too. I’m just showing that sometimes (not all the time) MF is actually better.

1. an player with magic find gear – final stats – 3000 power 55% critical rate 30% critical damage
2. an player with bersek gear – final stats 3000 power 55% critical rate 114% critical damage
now let’s test efficiency
average damage / 20 hits :
player 1
9 hits x 1000 damage (non critical ) = 9000 damage
11 hits critical – x 1800 damage= 19800
total – 28800
player 2
9 hits x 1000 damage (non critical ) = 9000 damage
11 hits critical – x 2640 damage= 29040
total – 38040
So an player with mf gear got up to 40 % less DPS then an player with bers. However i did not included in this calculation sigils and runes, that would increase the dps diference to over 70%

Rayya.2591:

1. an player with magic find gear – final stats – 3000 power 55% critical rate 30% critical damage
2. an player with bersek gear – final stats 3000 power 55% critical rate 114% critical damage
now let’s test efficiency
average damage / 20 hits :
player 1
9 hits x 1000 damage (non critical ) = 9000 damage
11 hits critical – x 1800 damage= 19800
total – 28800
player 2
9 hits x 1000 damage (non critical ) = 9000 damage
11 hits critical – x 2640 damage= 29040
total – 38040
So an player with mf gear got up to 40 % less DPS then an player with bers. However i did not included in this calculation sigils and runes, that would increase the dps diference to over 70%

Dang your reading comprehension is bad. It’s almost like you didn’t read my post at all, just saw that I’m not ignorantly against MF and started to spew examples.

Berserker gear is just used as an example because its a very easy comparison. Knights gear would also be an easy comparison because it gives the same offense, while giving much more defense. Don’t get caught up so much on the bersekrer gear and use it as an excuse to avoid answering the self nerfing properties of magic find gear.

Imagine a world where magic find doesn’t exist, and drop rates are adjusted to full magic find level. Everyone gets to use their armor and not have to screw around with a second set that clogs up your bags, everyone gets equal drop rates. That’s why I hate magic find, cause it’s pointless and annoying.

Ok, in theory I get all the arguments that people have for why MF gear is selfish and maybe shouldn’t exist. But in practise, how much of a problem is this, really?

I have both a MF and a regular exotic set with “proper” stats. From my experience when running the easier dungeons, experienced players wearing MF gear still die a lot less (as in once, or not at all) than inexperienced ones who are wearing exotics. If everybody knows their way around, the whole group can wear MF gear and still breeze through the dungeon. No problem exists!
At some point you can afford going for those extra drops because you have done the dungeon so many times you can basically rock it in your sleep and no harm done.

If I go into Arah or a path of a harder dungeon that I don’t know yet, I wear my regular exotics set because I don’t want to keep failing and dying when I can possibly prevent that, either. It’s my time wasted as much as everyone else’s and no fun.

So basically I don’t really see where the problem is, have a lot of you actually experienced dungeon groups failing solely because of somebody wearing MF gear? Seems hard to imagine for me..

What I really like the MF gear for is doing things in the open world, though. Completing maps and being able to gather as many mats as possible, and also possibly being challenged harder by the mobs as a result. That’s fun and very optional, doesn’t affect anyone else and it’s like getting a reward for choosing a slightly higher difficulty.

Edit: I guess I’d be fine with having MF gear banned from dungeons for sake of everyone contributing equally to the cause, but for PvE in the open world it’s really a nice thing I like a lot. ;(

xCrusadentx.2784:

I run MF gear, get some more decent loot from baby mobs in dungeons, not very good, but better crap loot lets say. I go with my group and kick kitten I don’t go down as often as teammates, I deal high burst damage and always remain on task. So what if I lose one stat using it? I know how to play the game, and do everything to support my team that is in my power. The problem is the player, not the stat. By this logic I hear, you’re automatically a better player (skill and tactics-wise) if you don’t run MF, which doesn’t make sense and is wrong. As long as you know what you’re doing, you can run a dungeon with full MF and Pirate Runes. Teamwork, not an individual’s stats, make all the difference.

It’s not high burst damage in MF and 30% crit damage.

And actually yes it does make you a better player if you dont pick the MF stat, since it shows that you arent selfish , that you want to add the most to the group and that you have understood what a waste MF is.

You say in your post that you know how to play the game and that you do everything to support your team that is within your power. Well, no you dont, you might know how to play the game, but fielding MF gear is a contradiction to your other statement. You dont do everything within your power to support the group, you failed doing that the second you didnt put on your spec specific gear.

Why pick a MF wielder over a properly geared person? No matter what, he will preform worse in his spec compared to if he was properly geared, doesnt matter which role hes there as, it will still be sub par.

IMO they need to add an inspect option that shows a players MF%.

RoRo.8270:

I’m still having a hard time figuring out how people can defend magic find gear in fractals and dungeons. They intentionally get a full set knowing it only benefits them while reducing their survivability and damage thus increasing the time to complete a run.

What difference in time? You mean the fact my MF warrior is more efficient than the average ‘other’ warrior you could get?

On my MF warrior in head to toe MF exotics, it’s likely you’ll complete most dungeons faster than on my hammer-shouts warrior who is also head to toe exotics because my MF warrior has much better DPS and doesn’t need the extra toughness and vitality my tank has for most dungeons.

My MF warrior also likely has better stats than the average AC pug or 20 and below fractal player because she is head to toe exotics rather than mixing in some yellows or even greens and blues.

I’m also a very solid player who knows all the dungeons I run her in. You’d lose more time by taking an average player versus me.

Now sure, high level fractals or some of the Arah paths, no MF. But when a normal party is such overkill for the difficulty of the rest of the dungeons, why not maximize the return on time invested (and yes, I’d happily run AC explore in a party of 5 warriors in exotic MF gear)?

SneakyErvin.3056:

IMO they need to add an inspect option that shows a players MF%.

Im strongly against the inspection mechanic, but im kitten off by People that use MF gear on party.

For me the real solution is simply extend the MF bonus to all the party members(or maybe add a % of your bonus to the rest of the group, and not the full bonus), so in any case you add something to the group.

Ganzo.5079:

SneakyErvin.3056:

IMO they need to add an inspect option that shows a players MF%.

Im strongly against the inspection mechanic, but im kitten off by People that use MF gear on party.

For me the real solution is simply extend the MF bonus to all the party members(or maybe add a % of your bonus to the rest of the group, and not the full bonus), so in any case you add something to the group.

Agreed I hate inspect, but in MFs case its needed.

Adding MF to the rest of the group solves nothing, its still a very bad stat that offers nothing over pure combat stats. If someone contributes with a whooping 20% MF I rather just 4 man the place or wait a few minutes and find a properly geared 5th person.

I can live without that low extra MF because it will not make any difference.

SneakyErvin.3056:

Ganzo.5079:

SneakyErvin.3056:

IMO they need to add an inspect option that shows a players MF%.

Im strongly against the inspection mechanic, but im kitten off by People that use MF gear on party.

For me the real solution is simply extend the MF bonus to all the party members(or maybe add a % of your bonus to the rest of the group, and not the full bonus), so in any case you add something to the group.

Agreed I hate inspect, but in MFs case its needed.

Adding MF to the rest of the group solves nothing, its still a very bad stat that offers nothing over pure combat stats. If someone contributes with a whooping 20% MF I rather just 4 man the place or wait a few minutes and find a properly geared 5th person.

I can live without that low extra MF because it will not make any difference.

well 20% is just a poor bonus, a was thinking something like 60\70% of the single man bonus.
If you think on this optic, a full party with MF gear, can have a really good drop rate, and if they wipe, they have just to learn to play better. But if the party survive, good for them :P

Xavori.3768:

RoRo.8270:

I’m still having a hard time figuring out how people can defend magic find gear in fractals and dungeons. They intentionally get a full set knowing it only benefits them while reducing their survivability and damage thus increasing the time to complete a run.

What difference in time? You mean the fact my MF warrior is more efficient than the average ‘other’ warrior you could get?

On my MF warrior in head to toe MF exotics, it’s likely you’ll complete most dungeons faster than on my hammer-shouts warrior who is also head to toe exotics because my MF warrior has much better DPS and doesn’t need the extra toughness and vitality my tank has for most dungeons.

My MF warrior also likely has better stats than the average AC pug or 20 and below fractal player because she is head to toe exotics rather than mixing in some yellows or even greens and blues.

I’m also a very solid player who knows all the dungeons I run her in. You’d lose more time by taking an average player versus me.

Now sure, high level fractals or some of the Arah paths, no MF. But when a normal party is such overkill for the difficulty of the rest of the dungeons, why not maximize the return on time invested (and yes, I’d happily run AC explore in a party of 5 warriors in exotic MF gear)?

You think highly of yourself. I can safely say, I’m not suprised you wear MF kind when you go on boasting like that about your own skill.

Modesty goes a long way.

Mirta.5029:

Kandrick.8054:

Mirta.5029:

Kandrick.8054:

Go read – Confessions of a Magic Find Leech – further down the page. Will tell you everything you need to know.

Gimping yourself in a group with MF is leeching from the group, it’s totally and utterly selfish.

you can use MF gear and not gimp the team. It’s also about your skills and build.

No, No you can’t.

yes you can. This isn’t even an argument.

No, you can’t. And THIS isn’t an argument.

Whatever MF items you take, the MF stat takes the spot of a useful stat. There is no build in the game that can use MF gear and not be gimped by it. You’re sacrificing damage, or survivability, or utility… Or something. Always. No exceptions. The stat difference in one item is significant enough, let alone in an entire set!

When you’re running around the map on your own, that’s your problem. You’re just crippling yourself. When you’re in a party that’s everyone’s problem. Cause when you cripple yourself you cripple your team. They’re losing DPS, or you’re becoming a bigger liability, or you’re losing tanking potential….whatever it is you’re supposed to be doing, you’ll be doing it worse with MF gear.

Now, you can say that “so what, we can still finish it!” or “it doesn’t slow the run THAT much!”. You’re right. In as far as MF gear isn’t completely useless. Yet, you’re still crippling the party for your personal gain. Sure, you can complete the run, but it’ll be slower. Maybe not 200% slower, but likely 20% slower. Or more dangerous. Compared to someone similar to you not running MF, your party would always pick the other guy, because your mf is crippling them. Yet, the game rewards you personally for it. Sure, you’re slowing everyone else’s run time (and therefore profit time) by 20%, but you’re personally earning about 40% more so, kitten’em!

And that’s why MF needs to disappear. Or they need to let us see people’s gear. Then MF people can get together and run dungeons and kitten with other MF people. See how much MF gear “doesn’t slow you down”.

SneakyErvin.3056:

xCrusadentx.2784:

I run MF gear, get some more decent loot from baby mobs in dungeons, not very good, but better crap loot lets say. I go with my group and kick kitten I don’t go down as often as teammates, I deal high burst damage and always remain on task. So what if I lose one stat using it? I know how to play the game, and do everything to support my team that is in my power. The problem is the player, not the stat. By this logic I hear, you’re automatically a better player (skill and tactics-wise) if you don’t run MF, which doesn’t make sense and is wrong. As long as you know what you’re doing, you can run a dungeon with full MF and Pirate Runes. Teamwork, not an individual’s stats, make all the difference.

It’s not high burst damage in MF and 30% crit damage.

And actually yes it does make you a better player if you dont pick the MF stat, since it shows that you arent selfish , that you want to add the most to the group and that you have understood what a waste MF is.

You say in your post that you know how to play the game and that you do everything to support your team that is within your power. Well, no you dont, you might know how to play the game, but fielding MF gear is a contradiction to your other statement. You dont do everything within your power to support the group, you failed doing that the second you didnt put on your spec specific gear.

Why pick a MF wielder over a properly geared person? No matter what, he will preform worse in his spec compared to if he was properly geared, doesnt matter which role hes there as, it will still be sub par.

IMO they need to add an inspect option that shows a players MF%.

You can say from your personal experience that that outcome happens. Personally, I get little difference between MF gear and my spec’d gear. Either way, I still do a good job fulfilling my role. To think you can sit here and tell me that I’m a burden to my team because I’m not spec’d the way you think I should be is stupid. Who is anyone here who think they have the right to tell people whats right and wrong? I use my gear, I help my team, and I enjoy doing so the way I am. I know I’m a decent player and I know I can play and support my group. Your point is invalid since you have not seen me play. The bottom line is that you people need to stop being obsessive over this stat. If anything, the ones complaining against it are selfish; the want people to play with the gear they see fit, and if they don’t they should be punished for it. Don’t tell me or others how to play. If I want to run a dungeon in MF gear, I will do it and still be an asset to the team.

The way I see it, if you assume that all 5 members are skilled enough to get through an AC run without getting downed due to knowing the dungeon well and then 1 member decides to run magic find, then he should be kicked because it makes the dungeon a little slower due to the tiniest bit of DPS? Everyone is so obsessed with finishing everything as fast as possible that other members miss out on loot. MF is a valid stat in the game, just because someone does not wear it does not mean they are good, i.e. you run a set of armor with boon duration but your build is for condition damage; but no MF so that makes it much more viable? A bad player is a bad player, MF does not make you selfish, what it does do is weed out “pros” who expect to get the same loot as everyone else or want to get through the dungeon faster and think that others are not entitled to run their own build the way they want.

I can only see one or two reasons not to use magic find, when the team is in real need of some extra stats for something difficult; arah p4 or fractals 40? Mf does not help to make better stuff drop nearly as much as it should.

SneakyErvin.3056:

IMO they need to add an inspect option that shows a players MF%.

Ok, while you did state IYO, that is fine but I will disagree with you, it will just add tensions between players. Never has this brought people closer together and it always creates arguments between players and stat-obsessed players. A good theory of what will happen is that people will just carry 2 sets of armor, probably the same look and they will let you inspect, head inside the dungeon and 5 mins in just switch over to MF. Why? Because the only way to get a party is by either paying out for whatever the meta happens to be at the time and by lying about it other times. Inspecting gear does not foster community.

Turial.1293:

The way I see it, if you assume that all 5 members are skilled enough to get through an AC run without getting downed due to knowing the dungeon well and then 1 member decides to run magic find, then he should be kicked because it makes the dungeon a little slower due to the tiniest bit of DPS? Everyone is so obsessed with finishing everything as fast as possible that other members miss out on loot. MF is a valid stat in the game, just because someone does not wear it does not mean they are good, i.e. you run a set of armor with boon duration but your build is for condition damage; but no MF so that makes it much more viable? A bad player is a bad player, MF does not make you selfish, what it does do is weed out “pros” who expect to get the same loot as everyone else or want to get through the dungeon faster and think that others are not entitled to run their own build the way they want.

I can only see one or two reasons not to use magic find, when the team is in real need of some extra stats for something difficult; arah p4 or fractals 40? Mf does not help to make better stuff drop nearly as much as it should.

It’s not about the amount of time, exactly, it’s that they’re being a selfish kitten who knows perfectly well that they’re screwing their group for their own gain.
And this argument isn’t about Giver’s, because Giver’s is the only one that has Boon Duration. If there was something that was like Giver’s but with something useful rather than MF then the same argument would be made that you shouldn’t be gimping yourself by taking Giver’s instead of the other one.

And please, do explain how in any way, shape, or form, someone using Explorer’s instead of Berserker’s or Knight’s isn’t being selfish by doing so.
It benefits absolutely NO ONE but themselves, and they would be a lot more effective if they took one of the other 2.

Pretty sure we all play to have fun, part of that fun is getting loot, stats, or cosmedics.

Why on earth is there a modifier that “boosts” a part of the game that we already play for, and why does it nerf a group, or what is the point of getting new shinies to again only wear modifier gear that still nerfs the group?

Sharkinu.8096:

Astralporing.1957:

You forgot 3. berserker gear. It exists, you know?

And once again we reached the real core problem. Is not the existence of magic find is the obsession for numbers and DPS. Is not the MF vs usefull gear; is Berserker’s vs anything else.

No, it;s the fact that some people seem okay with willingly weakening the group for personal gain.
It’s not about gear stat, really. It’s about player attitude.

I ran 1 set of full Rare MF AND a set of Exotic non-MF on my Guardian for a long time. Out of curtesy I’d always ask a dungeon group if the minded me running my MF. If any grumbled I put my “dungeon” gear on. Some players may have had survivability issues but I really didnt and most groups didnt care which armor I ran. The twist is I really didnt see ANY improvement in quality of my drops with Full MF or without. So I salvaged the MF set and now I just have my Temple gear.
Whatever, its just 1’s and 0’s.

Just average all the MF in all the player gear and food and give that as the final MF value for players in a dungeon party. Then MF can stay because when someone gears for it, the whole party benefits equally.