Guild Wars 2

Yarrmor.8406:

SpyderArachnid.5619:

You know this could all be easy solved by just removing Magic Find and then normalizing drops.

Then no one can complain about the stat differences between Magic Find and regular gear, and drops would be fixed to not rely on Magic Find anymore. Everyone would have the same drop rate and no one would be gimped/gimping their team.

Drops are low as it is already, and it seems the only solution is to wear Magic Find gear. Which in turn, upsets other players in dungeons as they feel like the person in Magic Find gear, is contributing less for their own greed. So if they just fix drops and raise the drop rate, they can remove Magic Find gear and everyone will be happy. Right?

Just because it upsets some players, the players who actually enjoy it needs to pay up? That’s the weakest mindset I’ve heard yet.

“Well I’m upset when I get pwnd by a confusion build mesmer, better remove that and everybody will be happy. Right?”

What are you even talking about? Pay up? For what?

You won’t be punished if Magic Find is removed. Drops will be normalized for everyone so there will be no need for Magic Find anymore. It stops discrimination towards those who wear Magic Find and stops people from complaining about other contributing less cause they wear Magic Find gear.

Seriously, think before you speak. You didn’t even read what I wrote.

SpyderArachnid.5619:

Yarrmor.8406:

SpyderArachnid.5619:

You know this could all be easy solved by just removing Magic Find and then normalizing drops.

Then no one can complain about the stat differences between Magic Find and regular gear, and drops would be fixed to not rely on Magic Find anymore. Everyone would have the same drop rate and no one would be gimped/gimping their team.

Drops are low as it is already, and it seems the only solution is to wear Magic Find gear. Which in turn, upsets other players in dungeons as they feel like the person in Magic Find gear, is contributing less for their own greed. So if they just fix drops and raise the drop rate, they can remove Magic Find gear and everyone will be happy. Right?

Just because it upsets some players, the players who actually enjoy it needs to pay up? That’s the weakest mindset I’ve heard yet.

“Well I’m upset when I get pwnd by a confusion build mesmer, better remove that and everybody will be happy. Right?”

What are you even talking about? Pay up? For what?

You won’t be punished if Magic Find is removed. Drops will be normalized for everyone so there will be no need for Magic Find anymore. It stops discrimination towards those who wear Magic Find and stops people from complaining about other contributing less cause they wear Magic Find gear.

Seriously, think before you speak. You didn’t even read what I wrote.

No I actually chose to wear MF knowing my DPS will drop. And yes, getting MF removed because people who don’t like it, is considered paying up in my dictionary (if that’s the right choice of words, my english sayings isn’t that great). What really makes people stop complaining is their own friggin mindset. When some random dude joins you for a dungeon, you can’t order them around what to wear and what not.

Oh and yes, I get punished when MF is removed. It’ll remind me how simple minded my fellow players are.

I also have things I hate about this game, but you don’t hear me complaining about them. If there is something that needs change badly, I trust in Anet to notice it themselves.

Yarrmor.8406:

SpyderArachnid.5619:

Yarrmor.8406:

SpyderArachnid.5619:

You know this could all be easy solved by just removing Magic Find and then normalizing drops.

Then no one can complain about the stat differences between Magic Find and regular gear, and drops would be fixed to not rely on Magic Find anymore. Everyone would have the same drop rate and no one would be gimped/gimping their team.

Drops are low as it is already, and it seems the only solution is to wear Magic Find gear. Which in turn, upsets other players in dungeons as they feel like the person in Magic Find gear, is contributing less for their own greed. So if they just fix drops and raise the drop rate, they can remove Magic Find gear and everyone will be happy. Right?

Just because it upsets some players, the players who actually enjoy it needs to pay up? That’s the weakest mindset I’ve heard yet.

“Well I’m upset when I get pwnd by a confusion build mesmer, better remove that and everybody will be happy. Right?”

What are you even talking about? Pay up? For what?

You won’t be punished if Magic Find is removed. Drops will be normalized for everyone so there will be no need for Magic Find anymore. It stops discrimination towards those who wear Magic Find and stops people from complaining about other contributing less cause they wear Magic Find gear.

Seriously, think before you speak. You didn’t even read what I wrote.

No I actually chose to wear MF knowing my DPS will drop. And yes, getting MF removed because people who don’t like it, is considered paying up in my dictionary (if that’s the right choice of words, my english sayings isn’t that great). What really makes people stop complaining is their own friggin mindset. When some random dude joins you for a dungeon, you can’t order them around what to wear and what not.

Yes, yes you can order them around. It is your group that you are forming. If someone does not meet your expectations, you can kick them or tell them what you expect. That is the point of making your own group. You make the rules, you choose what you want in your group. If you don’t want someone in full MF gear, kick them. It’s your group, you can do whatever you want.

And like you said. You choose to wear MF gear, even though your DPS drops. So you admit that you are contributing less to your party for your own selfish greed. Now if MF was removed and drops were normalized, you would be contributing 100% to your group and still getting the same drop rate chance that you would if you had MF gear.

So exactly what is the problem?

SpyderArachnid.5619:

Yarrmor.8406:

SpyderArachnid.5619:

Yarrmor.8406:

SpyderArachnid.5619:

You know this could all be easy solved by just removing Magic Find and then normalizing drops.

Then no one can complain about the stat differences between Magic Find and regular gear, and drops would be fixed to not rely on Magic Find anymore. Everyone would have the same drop rate and no one would be gimped/gimping their team.

Drops are low as it is already, and it seems the only solution is to wear Magic Find gear. Which in turn, upsets other players in dungeons as they feel like the person in Magic Find gear, is contributing less for their own greed. So if they just fix drops and raise the drop rate, they can remove Magic Find gear and everyone will be happy. Right?

Just because it upsets some players, the players who actually enjoy it needs to pay up? That’s the weakest mindset I’ve heard yet.

“Well I’m upset when I get pwnd by a confusion build mesmer, better remove that and everybody will be happy. Right?”

What are you even talking about? Pay up? For what?

You won’t be punished if Magic Find is removed. Drops will be normalized for everyone so there will be no need for Magic Find anymore. It stops discrimination towards those who wear Magic Find and stops people from complaining about other contributing less cause they wear Magic Find gear.

Seriously, think before you speak. You didn’t even read what I wrote.

No I actually chose to wear MF knowing my DPS will drop. And yes, getting MF removed because people who don’t like it, is considered paying up in my dictionary (if that’s the right choice of words, my english sayings isn’t that great). What really makes people stop complaining is their own friggin mindset. When some random dude joins you for a dungeon, you can’t order them around what to wear and what not.

Yes, yes you can order them around. It is your group that you are forming. If someone does not meet your expectations, you can kick them or tell them what you expect. That is the point of making your own group. You make the rules, you choose what you want in your group. If you don’t want someone in full MF gear, kick them. It’s your group, you can do whatever you want.

And like you said. You choose to wear MF gear, even though your DPS drops. So you admit that you are contributing less to your party for your own selfish greed. Now if MF was removed and drops were normalized, you would be contributing 100% to your group and still getting the same drop rate chance that you would if you had MF gear.

So exactly what is the problem?

My party respects my decision, in the end it’s my decision I made. They actually enjoy my MF armor. Whenever I wear it, their rare drops have increased times 3-4 on an average dungeon run. Be it actual because of me, or just stupid plain old dumb luck and superstition, they like it. And that is way more contributing than a couple extra dps in my opinion.

Yarrmor.8406:

SpyderArachnid.5619:

Yarrmor.8406:

SpyderArachnid.5619:

Yarrmor.8406:

SpyderArachnid.5619:

You know this could all be easy solved by just removing Magic Find and then normalizing drops.

Then no one can complain about the stat differences between Magic Find and regular gear, and drops would be fixed to not rely on Magic Find anymore. Everyone would have the same drop rate and no one would be gimped/gimping their team.

Drops are low as it is already, and it seems the only solution is to wear Magic Find gear. Which in turn, upsets other players in dungeons as they feel like the person in Magic Find gear, is contributing less for their own greed. So if they just fix drops and raise the drop rate, they can remove Magic Find gear and everyone will be happy. Right?

Just because it upsets some players, the players who actually enjoy it needs to pay up? That’s the weakest mindset I’ve heard yet.

“Well I’m upset when I get pwnd by a confusion build mesmer, better remove that and everybody will be happy. Right?”

What are you even talking about? Pay up? For what?

You won’t be punished if Magic Find is removed. Drops will be normalized for everyone so there will be no need for Magic Find anymore. It stops discrimination towards those who wear Magic Find and stops people from complaining about other contributing less cause they wear Magic Find gear.

Seriously, think before you speak. You didn’t even read what I wrote.

No I actually chose to wear MF knowing my DPS will drop. And yes, getting MF removed because people who don’t like it, is considered paying up in my dictionary (if that’s the right choice of words, my english sayings isn’t that great). What really makes people stop complaining is their own friggin mindset. When some random dude joins you for a dungeon, you can’t order them around what to wear and what not.

Yes, yes you can order them around. It is your group that you are forming. If someone does not meet your expectations, you can kick them or tell them what you expect. That is the point of making your own group. You make the rules, you choose what you want in your group. If you don’t want someone in full MF gear, kick them. It’s your group, you can do whatever you want.

And like you said. You choose to wear MF gear, even though your DPS drops. So you admit that you are contributing less to your party for your own selfish greed. Now if MF was removed and drops were normalized, you would be contributing 100% to your group and still getting the same drop rate chance that you would if you had MF gear.

So exactly what is the problem?

My party respects my decision, in the end it’s my decision I made. They actually enjoy my MF armor. Whenever I wear it, their rare drops have increased times 4 on an average dungeon run. Be it actual because of me, or just stupid plain old dumb luck and superstition, they like it. And that is way more contributing than a couple extra dps in my opinion.

MF only increases your own personal gain. It is not party wide. You are the only one who benefits from your MF gear, not them.

And at least you admit that your own personal greed is more important than your contribution to the party. Now I know why you are against my idea. Because you enjoy having that higher chance at loot over helping the group out more.

SpyderArachnid.5619:

Yarrmor.8406:

SpyderArachnid.5619:

Yarrmor.8406:

SpyderArachnid.5619:

Yarrmor.8406:

SpyderArachnid.5619:

You know this could all be easy solved by just removing Magic Find and then normalizing drops.

Then no one can complain about the stat differences between Magic Find and regular gear, and drops would be fixed to not rely on Magic Find anymore. Everyone would have the same drop rate and no one would be gimped/gimping their team.

Drops are low as it is already, and it seems the only solution is to wear Magic Find gear. Which in turn, upsets other players in dungeons as they feel like the person in Magic Find gear, is contributing less for their own greed. So if they just fix drops and raise the drop rate, they can remove Magic Find gear and everyone will be happy. Right?

Just because it upsets some players, the players who actually enjoy it needs to pay up? That’s the weakest mindset I’ve heard yet.

“Well I’m upset when I get pwnd by a confusion build mesmer, better remove that and everybody will be happy. Right?”

What are you even talking about? Pay up? For what?

You won’t be punished if Magic Find is removed. Drops will be normalized for everyone so there will be no need for Magic Find anymore. It stops discrimination towards those who wear Magic Find and stops people from complaining about other contributing less cause they wear Magic Find gear.

Seriously, think before you speak. You didn’t even read what I wrote.

No I actually chose to wear MF knowing my DPS will drop. And yes, getting MF removed because people who don’t like it, is considered paying up in my dictionary (if that’s the right choice of words, my english sayings isn’t that great). What really makes people stop complaining is their own friggin mindset. When some random dude joins you for a dungeon, you can’t order them around what to wear and what not.

Yes, yes you can order them around. It is your group that you are forming. If someone does not meet your expectations, you can kick them or tell them what you expect. That is the point of making your own group. You make the rules, you choose what you want in your group. If you don’t want someone in full MF gear, kick them. It’s your group, you can do whatever you want.

And like you said. You choose to wear MF gear, even though your DPS drops. So you admit that you are contributing less to your party for your own selfish greed. Now if MF was removed and drops were normalized, you would be contributing 100% to your group and still getting the same drop rate chance that you would if you had MF gear.

So exactly what is the problem?

My party respects my decision, in the end it’s my decision I made. They actually enjoy my MF armor. Whenever I wear it, their rare drops have increased times 4 on an average dungeon run. Be it actual because of me, or just stupid plain old dumb luck and superstition, they like it. And that is way more contributing than a couple extra dps in my opinion.

MF only increases your own personal gain. It is not party wide. You are the only one who benefits from your MF gear, not them.

And at least you admit that your own personal greed is more important than your contribution to the party. Now I know why you are against my idea. Because you enjoy having that higher chance at loot over helping the group out more.

Yes, I enjoy the higher chance of having loot. Plus, my party enjoys it and doesn’t mind when I do. They wear it too, yet we get through most dungeons. Because we have FUN playing the game. We don’t need to win every kitten time. In the end it is a friggin game. They don’t order everybody to wear what they want. If you want something to order around, get a dog. Who are you to tell me what I need to do?

Sawnic: “We assume only one person has it for the same reason you assume everyone but you has it.”

Uh… what? I don’t assume everyone but me has Magic Find. If I had to guess, I’d wager a minority of players actually stack MF gear exclusively, and most are more concerned with attaining more concretely useful stats.
What I was getting at, is that a lot of people seem to be toying with hypothetical dungeon scenarios where 1 of the 5 players is in MF gear while the rest are geared as best they can. My point is that the MF player is lucky to be able to play a game where not everyone thinks like he does. Maybe the MF guy is a good player and can hold his own, but his dungeon run will still go a lot quicker if the others aren’t doing what he’s doing. He’s able to justify his set-up by appealing to situations that generally work out because he’s the exception.
It’s like some jerk out on the road, speeding and driving aggressively, cutting people off, etc. He justifies it to himself: “I never get in any accidents, I’m a good driver.” But, the reason he doesn’t get in accidents is partly because not everyone drives like he does.
———————————————————————————————————————-

Yarrmor: “But my regular party members love it when I bring my MF armor set… In my party, I don’t have the role of dealing the dmg. I still have the strength to survive and aid my party members (read: healing, buffing) while they do the dmg. I survive longer than the rest of time.”

Great. I’m glad you have party synergy with your group, and have achieved an understanding. But, clearly they love your play style, and what you bring to the group. They don’t love your Magic Find — why would they? They love that you’re able to succeed as a group despite sacrificing stats.
If you have come to an agreement with your friends/guild that MF gear is okay, and that it’s not affecting group efficiency or survivability, then there’s no problem. The others have either done the same thing, or they have agreed to tolerate your decision as a favour to you. And who knows, maybe if something good drops for you, you might share it with them. I don’t know.
The problem is mainly in PUGs, where that kind of agreement has not been made in advance. When somebody is looking for additional party members to get through a dungeon with, they want somebody who is going to put forth an earnest effort to play as well as they can, within reasonable limits. Decking yourself out in MF gear is a pre-meditated, deliberate measure to purposefully underpower yourself (and by extension, the group) to achieve higher profit. That’s not what people are hoping for, when looking for a dungeon group.
And no, you don’t “survive longer than the rest of the time” when you’re in MF gear. If that’s true, it’s because the other two stats on your MF gear are different than on your regular gear, or because you are behaving differently while wearing it. Magic Find does not aid in survival, or damage. It aids in nothing.
--———————————————————————————

SpyderArachnid: " So if they just fix drops and raise the drop rate, they can remove Magic Find gear and everyone will be happy. Right?"

Yes.
I don’t have a problem with the concept of a Magic Find-like mechanic influencing character power or game difficulty in relation to potential for rewards, but I don’t think it has any place in a dungeon setting as it’s currently implemented. If MF granted higher drop rates to the entire group rather than one individual, that might be a step in the right direction — but I still think that kind of result would better be served with optional higher difficulty settings that are agreed-upon beforehand. And of course, they did this with the Fractals, and now people are complaining that the game is a grind.

Yarrmor.8406:

SpyderArachnid.5619:

Yarrmor.8406:

SpyderArachnid.5619:

Yarrmor.8406:

SpyderArachnid.5619:

Yarrmor.8406:

SpyderArachnid.5619:

You know this could all be easy solved by just removing Magic Find and then normalizing drops.

Then no one can complain about the stat differences between Magic Find and regular gear, and drops would be fixed to not rely on Magic Find anymore. Everyone would have the same drop rate and no one would be gimped/gimping their team.

Drops are low as it is already, and it seems the only solution is to wear Magic Find gear. Which in turn, upsets other players in dungeons as they feel like the person in Magic Find gear, is contributing less for their own greed. So if they just fix drops and raise the drop rate, they can remove Magic Find gear and everyone will be happy. Right?

Just because it upsets some players, the players who actually enjoy it needs to pay up? That’s the weakest mindset I’ve heard yet.

“Well I’m upset when I get pwnd by a confusion build mesmer, better remove that and everybody will be happy. Right?”

What are you even talking about? Pay up? For what?

You won’t be punished if Magic Find is removed. Drops will be normalized for everyone so there will be no need for Magic Find anymore. It stops discrimination towards those who wear Magic Find and stops people from complaining about other contributing less cause they wear Magic Find gear.

Seriously, think before you speak. You didn’t even read what I wrote.

No I actually chose to wear MF knowing my DPS will drop. And yes, getting MF removed because people who don’t like it, is considered paying up in my dictionary (if that’s the right choice of words, my english sayings isn’t that great). What really makes people stop complaining is their own friggin mindset. When some random dude joins you for a dungeon, you can’t order them around what to wear and what not.

Yes, yes you can order them around. It is your group that you are forming. If someone does not meet your expectations, you can kick them or tell them what you expect. That is the point of making your own group. You make the rules, you choose what you want in your group. If you don’t want someone in full MF gear, kick them. It’s your group, you can do whatever you want.

And like you said. You choose to wear MF gear, even though your DPS drops. So you admit that you are contributing less to your party for your own selfish greed. Now if MF was removed and drops were normalized, you would be contributing 100% to your group and still getting the same drop rate chance that you would if you had MF gear.

So exactly what is the problem?

My party respects my decision, in the end it’s my decision I made. They actually enjoy my MF armor. Whenever I wear it, their rare drops have increased times 4 on an average dungeon run. Be it actual because of me, or just stupid plain old dumb luck and superstition, they like it. And that is way more contributing than a couple extra dps in my opinion.

MF only increases your own personal gain. It is not party wide. You are the only one who benefits from your MF gear, not them.

And at least you admit that your own personal greed is more important than your contribution to the party. Now I know why you are against my idea. Because you enjoy having that higher chance at loot over helping the group out more.

Yes, I enjoy the higher chance of having loot. Plus, my party enjoys it and doesn’t mind when I do. They wear it too, yet we get through most dungeons. Because we have FUN playing the game. We don’t need to win every kitten time. In the end it is a friggin game. They don’t order everybody to wear what they want. If you want something to order around, get a dog. Who are you to tell me what I need to do?

Again, what are you even talking about? I never told you what you need to do. Don’t put words in my mouth. I made a suggestion. You simply blew it out of proportion. Relax already.

And you’re right. In the end, it’s a game. So why are you getting so bent out of shape over it? I made a simple suggestion, yet you’re the one who is throwing a fit about it.

You’ve already said you enjoy having a higher drop chance at the expensive of less contribution to your party. So of course, you will disagree with my idea because it doesn’t make you “special”. But with all those who have already stated time and time again that they dislike MF, and those who are tired of being kicked from groups because they wear MF gear, this would be an ideal solution.

They like me for what I am, not for what I’m wearing. That’s the big difference.

Yarrmor.8406 what are you even talking about i just read this page and…i hope i never do a party dungeon with you, i like stuff eficiently and not to carry people around.

SpyderArachnid.5619:

You know this could all be easy solved by just removing Magic Find and then normalizing drops.

Then no one can complain about the stat differences between Magic Find and regular gear, and drops would be fixed to not rely on Magic Find anymore. Everyone would have the same drop rate and no one would be gimped/gimping their team.

Drops are low as it is already, and it seems the only solution is to wear Magic Find gear. Which in turn, upsets other players in dungeons as they feel like the person in Magic Find gear, is contributing less for their own greed. So if they just fix drops and raise the drop rate, they can remove Magic Find gear and everyone will be happy. Right?

best choice and is like used to be in any mmorpgs ive played, some mobs had higuer chance or some mobs had unique drops…but you didnt require to sacrifice stats in order to get them.

Teofa Tsavo.9863:

If there were a stat that did nothing but give a % of spawning a Rainbow Clown Wig, you probably wouldn’t want to run with people who stacked it over a passive combat influencing stat.. but it seems to be ok to run with MF, that influences combat no more than said Clown wig would. I don’t get it.

You know, I think people need to examine this analogy a little more, and consider just why this debate is happening, at all.

If, instead of Magic Find, you had the option to wear a funny clown wig at the expense of one of your stats — would we even be having this conversation? Would you be at all surprised that players wearing funny wigs weren’t getting invited to dungeon groups? Would you be arguing so vehemently about your “right” to wear what you want, and how just because you’re wearing a clown wig it doesn’t mean you perform any worse in combat? Would you be denying actual math and damage formulae that demonstrate that you’d be better off with more Crit Damage or Toughness, rather than some stupid cosmetic hairpiece?

No. The clown wig situation would be stupid, no one would do it, and people who wore one into a dungeon would be told to get rid of that thing and put their stats back to normal. You’re arguing about it because it gives you shinies. This isn’t really about rights, or how good a player you are, or whether you perform as well in MF gear as other people wearing full Berserker gear. It’s about not bringing your A game, in the hopes of making more money.

People wear Magic Find because of what it does for them. There is no other advantage to consider, only disadvantages. The best thing you can say for someone in MF gear is "Well, maybe if they’re really good, they won’t hold back the group too much. Wow.

People dislike it because it’s like nerfing yourself.
As for those saying “it’s about skill” ; If you’re skilled and using magic find, can you be as good as your team mates? Sure. But guess what? You’d still be weaker than if you were using some other armor type. So wearing mf armor means you’re contributing less than you can so you can get more drops.

It’s the same argument as using good gear. If gear doesn’t matter and its just about skill, I may as well just go in naked with a weapon and expect people to be perfectly fine with that.

Actually, I always do certain fractals and dungeons naked, just for fun. And sometimes my party does the same… Still we survive, so I all dps drop is a bit BS IMO.

Yarrmor.8406:

Actually, I always do certain fractals and dungeons naked, just for fun. And sometimes my party does the same… Still we survive, so I all dps drop is a bit BS IMO.

Because of course a 29% drop in damage from lack of Power compounded onto a 24% drop from lack of crits and crit damage, coming to a total of a 46% damage drop is a small dps drop.

Tigera.2916:

SneakyErvin.3056:

So a MF holding aggro in an instance only leads me to the conclusion that he either ran with very bad players, or just had a much higher traited toughness than the rest, one of the stats that pull most aggro.

He would still be much more of a benefit to the group if he was in tanky gear or dps gear.

You do realise that sounds like you are saying that even if someone is doing the best in a group that they need to be in the “perfect” armour set to be acceptable? No matter what you point is, no matter how valid it is, you just demolished any chance of being taken seriously in that regard.

You might as well have just said “If you’re not wearing the perfect gear then you’re a leeching gimp”… which is my major problem with some who are arguing against MF in Dungeons.

On that point, I will be blunt… never mind how it’s screwing over the rest of the group, it’s making it harder on yourself for no reward. Only a fool would insist on using MF in a Dungeon.

Not sure where you got that from. All I’m saying is that no matter what, spec specific stats on your gear will make you preform better than in MF gear. Even mastercraft gear would be better than exo MF gear. Not that there is any excuse not to have a full Exo set of proper stats when hitting 80.

We also dont know how many in that group fielded MF gear or what weapons the MF “tank” used (shield raises aggro chance too). We dont know his or the rest of the groups toughness difference or anything. We dont know if they were skilled or bad etc. But as I said, if it was a good group where people knew their specs, a MF user would very likely not pull aggro. Maybe he was the top of the bottom.

It’s just disrespect to your fellow players if you field MF gear for groups, if you want to use it in dungeons, run with friends that are OK with it. I’ve sadly been in a few (too many) groups where it has really been obvious I was the only one not in MF gear. It shines through on Old Tom, Ascalon Boss, Grawl and Powersuit.

Magic Find users are Glasscannons, however they happened to forget the cannon at home.

Yarrmor.8406:

Whatever you guys all say. But my regular party members love it when I bring my MF armor set.

Why? That seems to be a rather counterintuitive way of thinking. Your MF doesn’t help them in any way, after all – they have no reason to love it.

Edit: oh, missed that one:

They like me for what I am, not for what I’m wearing. That’s the big difference.

So, they really don’t love you bringing your MF set. They love you despite your MF set. That is indeed a big difference.

Yarrmor.8406:

Just because it upsets some players, the players who actually enjoy it needs to pay up? That’s the weakest mindset I’ve heard yet.

You got it wrong, it’s the people that don’t use MF gear “pay up” for MF users’ enjoyment.

If anyone in our group states that they are wearing magic find; they get instantly booted and added to block list.

No one would admit that they wear magic find. They won’t have the courage to say it.

A gear inspection system would be great. This way all the MF people can play with themselves. Everyone is happy.

MF is extremely ignorant. Your teammates will have to spent more time killing a mob, have a larger chance of dying and after all that, you are the one having better drops. MF rewards you for punishing your own teammates. if you want to use MF, you should do dynamic events, nothing else. Or follow bots and hit all the mobs so you get the drops.

CoRtex.2157:

MF rewards you for punishing your own teammates.

This is in plain English I believe and I will still see English speakers not getting this simple English sentence.

Mudcat.1364:

A lot of the MF peoples’ argument seems to be that you can still use MF and be “good enough”. An example of why this is wrong: say you have 5 people doing dungeon runs, and 2 are using MF gear. As a result, the runs take 15 minutes instead of 12. Sure, you could argue that 15 minutes is good enough (only a 3 minute difference, after all), but it adds up. After an hour, you have done 4 runs. If all 5 players were using optimal gear, you would have done 5 runs. As a result, the 3 players contributing the most have gotten 20% less loot, and the 2 contributing less than their full potential got more than they otherwise would have. See the problem? Yes you still finished the run, but your decrease in efficiency is still hurting your teammates.

Your absolute effectiveness with your MF gear does not matter, only your relative efficiency compared to using real gear. You could have been the best person on your team, even in your MF gear, but you would have been even better in other gear. That difference is costing your teammates loot. Getting more loot at the expense of your teammates is selfish; asking you to perform as best you are able is not.

So, taking a few seconds longer to kill an ooglie booglie means less loot drops? My kitten

alcopaul.2156:

Blackmoon.6837:

Raine.1394:

My argument is that MF is a risk/reward dynamic where you gimp yourself (assume risk) in order for the chance to receive better loot. By definition, in a group activity you gimp the group to the extent that you gimp yourself.

The problem with that argument is that in order for it to be valid, you must have a group who plays the same way, with the same exact skills and has the same exact hit/miss ratio during an entire run, however, that’s anything but guild wars 2.

The current system allows users who are not up to the highest grades to still be able to contribute more than the highest graded member in the party.

For example, let’s say you have a group of 4 top-geared (geared your way) and 1 MF user. This is probably happening as I type this. Anyways, let’s throw this group into their first fight and let’s say it’s a boss just to make it simple. So a few seconds in and one of your geared members goes down because they made a mistake, so another of your geared members goes over to help. The remaining three are left dishing out damage. So point being, is during that time it takes to get that geared member back on his feet, the MF user has just dished thousands of damage that now puts them over the top in their hit ratio when compared to your downed player. That’s only the tip of the iceberg when it comes to these scenarios.

To argue that it would have been “better” to have had another top-geared player in place of the MF user is only ignorance. The ironic thing is this has probably happened to you without you even realizing it.

These “arguments” are plainly egotistical and should be ignored until you can actually spot the MF user without him/her having to ping gear.

The Ideal scenario is that the MF player will be likely the one who goes down, coz he’s a kittening glasscannon.

(and you will throw me that the geared down party member is less skilled and the mf guy is skilled, GFG!)

Oh please. Like being geared and “skilled” means you never key mash, or kitten up and miss your attack cuz you a half step outta range. Nope, being geared means you are so precise you can wizz on a plate and make no splash.

Even been in a project group where the person who did least of the effort got the highest grades or the bonus? We’ve all been there. It is unfair and dishonest.

gimmethegepgun.1284:

Sawnic.6795:

Berelious.3290:

gimmethegepgun.1284:

Sawnic.6795:

gimmethegepgun.1284:

Sawnic.6795:

lol, the anti-MF crowd came by, I see.

Yes, because it’s so unreasonable for people that have a problem with MF to answer someone’s question as to why people hate it.
So very, VERY unreasonable.

It’s one thing to answer it. It’s another to browbeat everyone who disagrees with you, which is what you’re doing.

It’s one thing to browbeat those who disagree, it’s an entirely worse thing to categorically dismiss math because it doesn’t fit your worldview.

It doesn’t matter what the math says, because the math doesn’t necessarily apply to the person using magic find. It’s only valid if it applies to a specific person’s play style. The person using MF is looking to get better drops, end of story. And again, the statistics don’t matter anyway because the only person any player is responsible to for their gear and stats is themselves.

This is how I look at it, but no matter how I try to explain it, I get trolled around because I’m pro-MF.

It’s like, the new racism, but towards gear and players who use it.

Yes, because hating someone for what they were born as is DEFINITELY comparable to hating someone for the actions they take that make them antisocial kittens.

Guess he shoulda used the correct word, since obviusly they weren’t born in MF gear. The more accurate term in this case would be :

World English Dictionary
bigot (?b???t) [Click for IPA pronunciation guide]

— n
a person who is intolerant of any ideas other than his or her own, esp on religion, politics, or race

[C16: from Old French: name applied contemptuously to the Normans by the French, of obscure origin]

’bigoted

— adj

Collins English Dictionary – Complete & Unabridged 10th Edition
2009 © William Collins Sons & Co. Ltd. 1979, 1986 © HarperCollins
Publishers 1998, 2000, 2003, 2005, 2006, 2007, 2009

As it allows for prejudice based on more then just race.

maddoctor.2738:

CETheLucid.3964:

Berserkers will always be the superior DPS choice, I never contended that. The difference is in the goal. One wants DPS, and one wants shines.

And DPS helps the group, shines do not, and there is the issue

Ahh, so your goal is to get more DPS and not shinies. Then give the shinies you got to the guy you forced to give up his shinies for your DPS count, and extra 2 minutes for the next run.

Ethics.4519:

I have yet to see this question addressed. In a game of anti-min/maxing, what does this matter?

We all know, whether you want to admit it or not, that one person doing 5-10% less damage doesn’t really matter in the long run.

Oh no! Now your 30 min long dungeon run turns into 31 minutes. Are you going to blame the guy dying? Are you going to blame the guy not dodging? are you going to blame the guy who missed his interrupt? What about the person who forgot to put his food back on, or didn’t even bring food! Outrageous!

DPS doesn’t require a reason. Either you’re contributing or you’re not. If a basketball player misses the game winning shot, there’s no excuse. It’s like it’s okay because he just didn’t have the skill, but it’s not okay if his shoe was untied. I’m sure you naysayers will pick out some arbitrary detail in the analogy but the point still stands (INB4 He doesn’t have stats on his shoes)

I always forget my food. I have stuff in my pack that I bought way back round Halloween event time. They need to add use slots for them, or hotkeys or something.

Raine.1394:

Ethics.4519:

I have yet to see this question addressed. In a game of anti-min/maxing, what does this matter?

We all know, whether you want to admit it or not, that one person doing 5-10% less damage doesn’t really matter in the long run.

Oh no! Now your 30 min long dungeon run turns into 31 minutes. Are you going to blame the guy dying? Are you going to blame the guy not dodging? are you going to blame the guy who missed his interrupt? What about the person who forgot to put his food back on, or didn’t even bring food! Outrageous!

DPS doesn’t require a reason. Either you’re contributing or you’re not. If a basketball player misses the game winning shot, there’s no excuse. It’s like it’s okay because he just didn’t have the skill, but it’s not okay if his shoe was untied. I’m sure you naysayers will pick out some arbitrary detail in the analogy but the point still stands (INB4 He doesn’t have stats on his shoes)

I could just as easily ask, in a game that not about grinding gear, why do we have a stat which solely gives you more of it? Neither of those questions is very good though.

Deconning for ectos.

Fyrebrand.4859:

Teofa Tsavo.9863:

If there were a stat that did nothing but give a % of spawning a Rainbow Clown Wig, you probably wouldn’t want to run with people who stacked it over a passive combat influencing stat.. but it seems to be ok to run with MF, that influences combat no more than said Clown wig would. I don’t get it.

You know, I think people need to examine this analogy a little more, and consider just why this debate is happening, at all.

If, instead of Magic Find, you had the option to wear a funny clown wig at the expense of one of your stats — would we even be having this conversation? Would you be at all surprised that players wearing funny wigs weren’t getting invited to dungeon groups? Would you be arguing so vehemently about your “right” to wear what you want, and how just because you’re wearing a clown wig it doesn’t mean you perform any worse in combat? Would you be denying actual math and damage formulae that demonstrate that you’d be better off with more Crit Damage or Toughness, rather than some stupid cosmetic hairpiece?

No. The clown wig situation would be stupid, no one would do it, and people who wore one into a dungeon would be told to get rid of that thing and put their stats back to normal. You’re arguing about it because it gives you shinies. This isn’t really about rights, or how good a player you are, or whether you perform as well in MF gear as other people wearing full Berserker gear. It’s about not bringing your A game, in the hopes of making more money.

People wear Magic Find because of what it does for them. There is no other advantage to consider, only disadvantages. The best thing you can say for someone in MF gear is "Well, maybe if they’re really good, they won’t hold back the group too much. Wow.

Yeah, because no one in the entire game has ever offered up a drop they have no use for to the group. Nope, never happens, ever. Yup, have never given loot that dropped to my MF to someone else because I don’t need it.

I work hard to find gear with good stats, I don’t see why the game should be balanced around not having those good stats so I can grind loot better. It makes no sense to me that MF exists, it’s a terrible stat to have in a game and it’s bull that it effectively punished people who rune interesting runes and hard earned armour sets by giving them an opportunity loss compared to someone with MF. It’s also a completely selfish stat.

It contributes absolutely nothing to the experience, it doesn’t heal you, it doesn’t allow you take more hits, increase conditions, block attacks, kill things faster, stealth health etc. Runes that you could bring in place of it do all those things. If they removed MF tomorrow, the game wouldn’t be worse off in any way. If they removed MF and buffed the drop rate to what MF currently can provide, we’d be missing out on nothing. It’s a garbage stat, it’s garbage design and it makes the game worse simply by being in it.

Sleel.8365:

So, taking a few seconds longer to kill an ooglie booglie means less loot drops? My kitten

Yes. The mere existence of MF stat means that drop chances are lowered to compensate for everyone.

Loot chance of x item:
————————————————————————————————————————————————————————————
Mf player

Non mf player

Baseline drop rate

Without MF stat:

Non mf player Mf player Baseline drop rate

So, what’s wrong with the second part exactly according to MF users?

I’m still having a hard time figuring out how people can defend magic find gear in fractals and dungeons. They intentionally get a full set knowing it only benefits them while reducing their survivability and damage thus increasing the time to complete a run.

A better question would be, why do people defend magic find? I mean, we are 5 pages in and there’s people that still use “skill” as a relevant argument, when it has no weight given the premises. Others trying to say that it’s ok using MF because having 66% or less stats compared to a regular exotic is not a big deal (lol). To those I say, please spend your time with like-minded people and we’ll see how much “shines” you get when it takes 1h to clear AC for you

It should be pretty obvious to every average joe out there that using MF in dungeons is a big middle finger to everyone in your party… a masterwork non-mf set has more stats, nuff said.

Mirta.5029:

What I’m saying is that magic find works, …

No, Mf don’t works. Not since the November Update and with the change to the loot. Veterans and Champions should give better loot. They do not. And so on…

Last week we just made a test (i wanted to kow it): Fractals Level 10, MF Gear, MF buff food, 50% MF potion, MF-guild banner. We killed every single mobs in all fractals (as far a possible). What i got wit all that MF was white and blue and two or three green. The others find more green and some yellow from the normal mob. For me is MF bugged and dead. Not a single reason to use it.

Astralporing.1957:

Sleel.8365:

So, taking a few seconds longer to kill an ooglie booglie means less loot drops? My kitten

Yes. The mere existence of MF stat means that drop chances are lowered to compensate for everyone.

You know what?

If Anet buffed MF sets to have stats just barely under their corresponding non-MF sets, you would still complain on these same basis, just because gear elitism and it’s MF.

The existence of MF doesn’t lower the drop rate of stuff for everyone else. It remains a constant.

It simply raises the better end drop rate for the MF user. You’re arguing a glass half empty analogy and others would argue it’s half full.

The gear someone else is using isn’t messing up your personal RNG. You would get the same drops whether you teamed up with a MF user or a non-MF user.

Sitale also makes a point.

Even with MF, RNG is a cruel game. I hope Anet looks into that or even reconsiders the current RNG system. Tougher enemies should be worth the fight and be more rewarding.

Dungeon mobs (even the trash mobs) which are inherently tougher then your average mob, should reward you more for killing them rather then the non-dungeon variety.

Same principle everywhere else.

There is also a theory that MF stacked past a certain point does in fact break MF for whatever reason and you end up with RNG the same as everyone else.

There’s supposedly a sweet spot and after that you truly gimp yourself.

If that’s true, it’s a bug that needs to be fixed and given the complaints maybe give MF a quality of life buff to really close those numbers.

(Not that it would make any difference to the “it took me three extra minutes imadie” crowd… then it would be “it took me one extra minute imadie”)

Or else just fix any potential MF bugs and give even more MF on the current gear as is to compensate for the stat hit you take for MF.

Either way is viable. Maybe even both. Close the gap more closely to the stat based gear that the corresponding MF gear is based off of and also buff the MF stats on this gear.

Anet isn’t going to make the anti-MF crowd happy short of completely removing it. It’s up to Anet.

CETheLucid.3964:

Anet isn’t going to make the anti-MF crowd happy short of completely removing it.

Not true. Some people have posted some really good ideas. For example “MF sharing”.

As an example:
5 players enter a dungeon.
Player 1 has 100% magic find.
Players 2, 3, 4 and 5 have 0% magic find.

Current situation:
Player 1 gets rewarded more for doing less (lower attributes means lower damage, heal, control, etc)
Players 2, 3, 4 and 5 don’t get any extra rewards despite having a tougher time because of Player 1.
Only player 1 is happy.

Desirable situation:
All MF of the party gets pooled together, then split up between the party members.
In this example each player now has 20% magic find.
Player 1 is still less useful overall, but compensates for this by providing better drops for the whole party.
Players 2, 3, 4 and 5 still have a tougher time, but are (indirectly) rewarded for this because of the MF they gain.
Everyone is happy.

Personally, I just don’t like the idea of shouldering more weight to help some random guy get better drops. If someone is running with me, I expect them to do their best, and they can’t do that with MF gear.

There is absolutely no logical argument for MF. Losing a stat gimps your performance, and it is at the expense of others. If you have three apples, and lose one, no matter how you try to word it, or twist it, you have less apples. The same applies to stats.

Waar Kijk Je Naar.8713:

Current situation:
Player 1 gets rewarded more for doing less (lower attributes means lower damage, heal, control, etc)
Players 2, 3, 4 and 5 don’t get any extra rewards despite having a tougher time because of Player 1.
Only player 1 is happy.

Gisei.5749:

Personally, I just don’t like the idea of shouldering more weight to help some random guy get better drops. If someone is running with me, I expect them to do their best, and they can’t do that with MF gear.

There is absolutely no logical argument for MF. Losing a stat gimps your performance, and it is at the expense of others. If you have three apples, and lose one, no matter how you try to word it, or twist it, you have less apples. The same applies to stats.

You’re assuming player 1 would be a better player if he wore better gear, wheras if player 1 stunk in MF gear, player 1 wouldn’t become a better player in optimal gear.

A good player playing naked can outgame a bad player in perfect stats.

Player 1’s personal skill with the game will always be the optimum. A stinker VS someone competent will always be the deciding factor. Not the gear. Ever.

What’s being argued here in the technical is as if the PUGs you find in the game are these perfect people and you’ll always play a perfect game with them if they’re wearing anything but MF.

I have a sneaking suspicion that most of the folks this pedantic about the whole thing don’t even play with PUGs to begin with if they can in anyway help it.

Time’s precious, y’know? You’re not going to waste five minutes playing a game if you can get it done in three. Right?

And you won’t know what kind of a player they are until you play with them.

This aside, I like the idea of a MF player contributing her MF in the way Waar Kijk Je Naar lays out.

Why is this topic still alive lol.

People like to blame something when something doesn’t go right in parties. Unfortunately, they blame players with magic find even though they may the ones who are the source of the real underlying problem.

If a player wears magic find but still out damage/survives you, who is wearing your so called “proper” gear, does this player still deserve to be harassed by you or should he be harassing you for your poor lack of skill?

If a player sucks, hes gonna suck regardless what gear he wears, if a player is good, he’s gonna shine even if hes wearing blues.

I MUCH rather have a FULL MF gear player who is skilled then a crap and non-communicating player with full so called “proper” gear. The people who argue people who wear MF aren’t doing their best, does that mean if someones best is no good, is it ok? and if the MF players ability is double that of yours, does it make you the liability? STOP trying to define players with just numbers and start learning to play the game for what it really is.

tldr: this game isn’t wow, numbers isn’t what defines your player ability, real skill is.

If you’re not playing to your maximum efficiency/potential by using gear that’s meant purely for selfish gain, gimps your other stats and by that you’re gimping the team’s overall efficiency/potential, then I have every reason to hate you. Skill isn’t a factor in this argument, a highly skilled player, who can lose survivability stats can wear even glassier/higher damage gear and push out even more DPS and in return be more efficient by helping complete dungeons faster/safer. MF contributes nothing to the group.

Although, I have no problem when people use MF pots/foods, since those are optional and everyone’s own choice to spend g on food or not. But if you’re not pushing 100% of your abilities while everyone else is, then we have a problem. Keep your MF for solofarming, but keep it out from group related activities. I wonder how many of us wouldn’t rage if they’d see a full MF user in Arah p4 dwayna or CoF p2 wall DPS checks.

@CETheLucid: Your argument has no value, it’s not bad player vs good player. It’s from the single player’s (skilllevel isn’t a factor) efficiency/output with “gear +1 pwnage” or “gear +2 pwnage”. Stats matter for maximum efficiency and better stats even artificially boost bad players, so your counterargument has no value. Your argument seems to be more of a pvp standpoint aka skill > gear, but from the view of a single individual and his own efficiency, it has no meaning. Numbers matter.

Players dislike to sacrifice one stat for another, that doesn’t appear to work as intended.

The hate for magic find makes no sense. People just need something to put the blame on if something goes wrong. “Oh, we all died at that boss? Yeah, lets blame the guy with Sigil of Luck. If he had a different sigil we would have survived.”

Now, really if we’re going to hate magic find gear for having less power then why not hate every single type of gear apart from berserker? What if someone uses gear with vitality, toughness and healing? He does less damage, he dies less(so he pays less for repairs) and does less damage. Why is magic find special?

I’m against magic find.
You do less and get more for doing less.
Is that really a philosophy of this game?
Think about it.
A slight note to a person above me, you are an idiot of first class wrong. Whoever runs protective stats, he protects his team because these stats(toughness in particular) give him aggro and pull monsters towards him(while healing power heals his teammates… kinda?) In the end he dies the first if something goes wrong… And pay s more for repairs, in no way less.

Sharkinu.8096:

The hate for magic find makes no sense. People just need something to put the blame on if something goes wrong. “Oh, we all died at that boss? Yeah, lets blame the guy with Sigil of Luck. If he had a different sigil we would have survived.”

Now, really if we’re going to hate magic find gear for having less power then why not hate every single type of gear apart from berserker? What if someone uses gear with vitality, toughness and healing? He does less damage, he dies less(so he pays less for repairs) and does less damage. Why is magic find special?

I don’t hate MF user, nor I vote for gear spec mode.

But your question is easily answered, all stat work towards making a cha either stronger / tougher / supportive, what is MF’s role in stronger / tougher / supportive? None; What is the benefit a MF player’s teammate get? None either.

Sharkinu.8096:

The hate for magic find makes no sense. People just need something to put the blame on if something goes wrong. “Oh, we all died at that boss? Yeah, lets blame the guy with Sigil of Luck. If he had a different sigil we would have survived.”

Now, really if we’re going to hate magic find gear for having less power then why not hate every single type of gear apart from berserker? What if someone uses gear with vitality, toughness and healing? He does less damage, he dies less(so he pays less for repairs) and does less damage. Why is magic find special?

Because, what you already probably know, but just don’t want to admit is, that other stats fit certain roles in a party. Survivability stats are used by support specs/“tanks” who take aggro, keep the glassy members alive and release the pressure from squishier players. Another example is if a damage spec is wearing some survivability stats, it helps to relieve pressure from him by absorbing direct damage or long term conditions without the need for self/outside cleansing, as a result he has higher upkeep of direct contact with the mob, more hits changed and in result a bigger overall sustained damage. MF does nothing for others, doesn’t help the completion of the task and has no role in a group setting. MF wearers just try to justify their own selfish gains by leeching of either the group or just not playing to their full potential.
You have no argument to make me support MF, because it gives me nothing if you wear it.

CETheLucid.3964:

You’re assuming player 1 would be a better player if he wore better gear, wheras if player 1 stunk in MF gear, player 1 wouldn’t become a better player in optimal gear.

Err, no. I’m assuming they are the same player. This way, skill is not a factor. When ANY player is geared in MF, he WILL perform worse than if he is geared in real gear.

If he isn’t playing at his best, he is gimping the party.

Sitael.4680:

Mirta.5029:

What I’m saying is that magic find works, …

Last week we just made a test (i wanted to kow it): Fractals Level 10, MF Gear, MF buff food, 50% MF potion, MF-guild banner. We killed every single mobs in all fractals (as far a possible). What i got wit all that MF was white and blue and two or three green. The others find more green and some yellow from the normal mob. For me is MF bugged and dead. Not a single reason to use it.

No, you have not performed a test. Repeat this 100+ times and you have performed a test.

This is really a simple math problem.

Does MF replace useful stats and therefor under perform other gear choices? Mathematically, Yes.

Does MF reward individuals for using a stat that is useless to their group members? Mathematically, Yes.

It is a fact that Magic Find replaces a more useful stat that would otherwise increase your performance.

It is a fact that using Magic Find rewards the individual who uses MF gear and offers no benefit to the rest of the group.

It’s not an opinion. It’s not my opinion that 2 damage is greater than 1 or 11 minutes is longer than 10. It’s an indisputable fact.

Currently one person can wear full Magic Find gear and that one person gains a loot bonus while the remaining party members gain no bonus and have to work harder to clear content.

I suggest changing Magic Find so that it is a party wide bonus where the total amount of Magic Find given to all members is the total amount used by all party members divided by the number of party members.

One person wearing +200% Magic Find gear and 4 people wearing 0% Magic Find gear in a party of 5 would give (200/5=) +40% Magic Find to all 5 party members.

I think that this is more fair than the current system.

Sharkinu.8096:

The hate for magic find makes no sense. People just need something to put the blame on if something goes wrong. “Oh, we all died at that boss? Yeah, lets blame the guy with Sigil of Luck. If he had a different sigil we would have survived.”

Now, really if we’re going to hate magic find gear for having less power then why not hate every single type of gear apart from berserker? What if someone uses gear with vitality, toughness and healing? He does less damage, he dies less(so he pays less for repairs) and does less damage. Why is magic find special?

1. Why would you use Sigil of Luck if you dont wear other MF? 0.6×25=15%, You just wasted a perfectly fine upgrade slot on your weapon. And actually, Sigil of Blood would make you survive better and deal more damage at the same time. Or you could pick up the group heal sigil and benefit more to your group.

2. A guy with supportive stats fills a role, lets say a warrior based around shouts and defensive stats. He does an exceptional job at helping people stay alive through his shouts while being able to take a hit. I have one in my regular fractal group, and I just love him. Put the same guy there with MF gear, his heals would be useless, his damage would be worthless, his survivability would be null and void.

The minimal gain towards drops that MF gives makes it a waste. In all honesty all it does is prove that you are a selfish player that really doesnt have a clue how MF work. It’s a regular thing I see in chat, both map chats aswell as some guilds I’ve been in. People getting high MF only to see no real difference.

They see 200% MF and think they’ll get drops on every mob more or less. When infact all they did was double their chance to find a rare, if the mob decides to drop anything at all.

4% chance to drop, add 200% MF on that and all of a sudden you have a whooping 8% chance to get it. Wow, amazing drop chance, only a 92% chance to fail.

CETheLucid.3964:

The existence of MF doesn’t lower the drop rate of stuff for everyone else. It remains a constant.

It simply raises the better end drop rate for the MF user. You’re arguing a glass half empty analogy and others would argue it’s half full.

If you believe the drop tables are not designed with the best existing achievable MF ratings in mind, then you are very, very naive.

The devs have some idea about how much you are supposed to get from drops. If the best available MF would make drop chances for the rare items triple as good (it’s slightly better than that afaik) – so, 0.003% instead of 0.001% – then the drop chances will get reduced across the board in the planning stages. So, MF-wearing people will still get the “normal” drop rates, but all the others will suffer the reduced ones.
It’s the same concept as designing top encounters with best equipped and levelled people in most advantageous builds in mind. Or increasing mob difficulty with each new tier of eq.

TL/DR – if MF didn’t exist, the MF-wearing people would still get the same drops. All others would be getting better ones though.

SneakyErvin.3056:

They see 200% MF and think they’ll get drops on every mob more or less. When infact all they did was double their chance to find a rare, if the mob decides to drop anything at all.

Triple, actually – double would be 100% MF. Your point still stands, though (especially since the drop chances are never in full percentile points for the good stuff – they are way lower).

I can’t believe people are still bickering over this.

I do find it quite comical though. Arenanet wanted to bring the community together by eliminating elements of competition towards fellow players and encouraging cooperation.

Nothing says “screw you” more than magic find does. It doesn’t help your friends in anyway but instead; harms the group in the most selfish way possible.

Ironic isn’t it?