Guild Wars 2

So now people are complaining about the B2P model?

Where are the days when it was the best thing since sliced bread.

Entitlement is just too much with some people..

Ugh please, have any of those people complaining actually played an actual f2p MMORPG game?

I remember when I first started MMOing with Maple Story almost a decade ago. Forget skins and money, it took me and my friends MONTHS to grind a single character to 4th job, not even to cap level. We didn’t even had time to worry about skins or stats or whatnot. We had to GRIND on mobs just to to able to ACCESS content. Hundreds of hours of pressing a button, killing mobs, taking advantage of every double exp events, doing the same thing over and over again just to gain access to higher level content. In the end, the grind was too much and we all quit the game.

Fast forward a few years, and me and my friends played Dragon Nest, and again, still grinding. Running the same dungeon DOZENS of times to get a single level, with no variety. You HAVE to run this dungeon to get to the next level, as other dungeons either took too long, or barely gives any exp. People used ‘boost’ others, helping them clear dungeons quickly with a high level character in their party for a price.
That’s not mentioning the pay-wall you have to pass to get to the final content, as without good gear, you won’t get a place in a party to clear raids. Without doing raids, there is no reliable way to make money, which means you don’t get good gear.
Only way to get pass the pay wall? Spend hundreds of hours farming gold to have a chance to get mediocre gear to be ‘barely’ accepted into a party, or open your wallet and buy things foo the cash shop to sell/ buy equips from players using cash.

THAT is GRINDING. If you don’t DO THIS, you will not get to do ALL THE OTHER THINGS AFTER THIS.

What you guys complain about is FARMING, which is OPTIONAL.
Can you enjoy the game withoutAscended Gear/ Legendary Gear?
Yes.

Do you NEED to repeatedly run dungeons to enjoy all the content?
No.

Do you NEED to get that awesome looking Legendary/Skin to play the game?
No.

Those “grindy” items, such as Legendaries and Ascended Armor are more like a status symbol, a sign that you have invested time and money into the game. They are hard to get for a reason.

And, if there are no ‘grindy’ things in GW2, then what is the point? There will be nothing to work towards. It might as well be a single player game with a multiplayer function.

And btw, I have yet to see an F2P game with more customizing option then Gw2, especially for free.
Arguably Maple Story had larger variety of outfits and skins, but 99% of them are DURATIONAL and is only purchasable by using REAL MONEY. No ‘convert in-game currency to cash shop currency’.
And the skins of Dragon Nest costs more than 30-40 USD for a single ‘low grade’ set, and to get the best skins, you have to pray to RNGesus and spend MORE money to combine two lower grade skins (with the obligatory extra fee of the combination device of course) for a chance to get a better skin. None of that BS in GW2.

I’m still amazed that GW2 has no subscription fee, and it is ridiculously cheap (I got it during a sale some time ago), which is definitely a steal.
So for those who compare gw2 to those F2P mmos I’ve grown to detest so much (especially after playing gw2), I dare you to actually try to get into a real F2P mmo, filled with Pay-to-Win ideologies, before QQing about GW2 just because you are too lazy or too cheap to invest time and/or money into the game.

EazyPanda.6419:

So for those who compare gw2 to those F2P mmos I’ve grown to detest so much (especially after playing gw2), I dare you to actually try to get into a real F2P mmo, filled with Pay-to-Win ideologies, before QQing about GW2 just because you are too lazy or too cheap to invest time and/or money into the game.

It’s actually very similar to a lot of Western ones, like Neverwinter or Star Trek (only things worse in NWN are character slots and bag slots – but spending $50 in that would get you more than GW2).

Better than SWTOR, though, talk about “nickle and dimed”!

EazyPanda.6419:

Ugh please, have any of those people complaining actually played an actual f2p MMORPG game?
……….
So for those who compare gw2 to those F2P mmos I’ve grown to detest so much (especially after playing gw2), I dare you to actually try to get into a real F2P mmo, filled with Pay-to-Win ideologies, before QQing about GW2 just because you are too lazy or too cheap to invest time and/or money into the game.

AWESOME post…..thanks for the insight into what FORCED GRIND really is and how GW2 is so much NOT that.

EazyPanda.6419:

Ugh please, have any of those people complaining actually played an actual f2p MMORPG game?

I remember when I first started MMOing with Maple Story almost a decade ago. Forget skins and money, it took me and my friends MONTHS to grind a single character to 4th job, not even to cap level. We didn’t even had time to worry about skins or stats or whatnot. We had to GRIND on mobs just to to able to ACCESS content. Hundreds of hours of pressing a button, killing mobs, taking advantage of every double exp events, doing the same thing over and over again just to gain access to higher level content. In the end, the grind was too much and we all quit the game.

Fast forward a few years, and me and my friends played Dragon Nest, and again, still grinding. Running the same dungeon DOZENS of times to get a single level, with no variety. You HAVE to run this dungeon to get to the next level, as other dungeons either took too long, or barely gives any exp. People used ‘boost’ others, helping them clear dungeons quickly with a high level character in their party for a price.
That’s not mentioning the pay-wall you have to pass to get to the final content, as without good gear, you won’t get a place in a party to clear raids. Without doing raids, there is no reliable way to make money, which means you don’t get good gear.
Only way to get pass the pay wall? Spend hundreds of hours farming gold to have a chance to get mediocre gear to be ‘barely’ accepted into a party, or open your wallet and buy things foo the cash shop to sell/ buy equips from players using cash.

THAT is GRINDING. If you don’t DO THIS, you will not get to do ALL THE OTHER THINGS AFTER THIS.

What you guys complain about is FARMING, which is OPTIONAL.
Can you enjoy the game withoutAscended Gear/ Legendary Gear?
Yes.

Do you NEED to repeatedly run dungeons to enjoy all the content?
No.

Do you NEED to get that awesome looking Legendary/Skin to play the game?
No.

Those “grindy” items, such as Legendaries and Ascended Armor are more like a status symbol, a sign that you have invested time and money into the game. They are hard to get for a reason.

And, if there are no ‘grindy’ things in GW2, then what is the point? There will be nothing to work towards. It might as well be a single player game with a multiplayer function.

And btw, I have yet to see an F2P game with more customizing option then Gw2, especially for free.
Arguably Maple Story had larger variety of outfits and skins, but 99% of them are DURATIONAL and is only purchasable by using REAL MONEY. No ‘convert in-game currency to cash shop currency’.
And the skins of Dragon Nest costs more than 30-40 USD for a single ‘low grade’ set, and to get the best skins, you have to pray to RNGesus and spend MORE money to combine two lower grade skins (with the obligatory extra fee of the combination device of course) for a chance to get a better skin. None of that BS in GW2.

I’m still amazed that GW2 has no subscription fee, and it is ridiculously cheap (I got it during a sale some time ago), which is definitely a steal.
So for those who compare gw2 to those F2P mmos I’ve grown to detest so much (especially after playing gw2), I dare you to actually try to get into a real F2P mmo, filled with Pay-to-Win ideologies, before QQing about GW2 just because you are too lazy or too cheap to invest time and/or money into the game.

Agree completely. You are so completely right on with this post.

EazyPanda.6419:

Ugh please, have any of those people complaining actually played an actual f2p MMORPG game?

I remember when I first started MMOing with Maple Story almost a decade ago. Forget skins and money, it took me and my friends MONTHS to grind a single character to 4th job, not even to cap level. We didn’t even had time to worry about skins or stats or whatnot. We had to GRIND on mobs just to to able to ACCESS content. Hundreds of hours of pressing a button, killing mobs, taking advantage of every double exp events, doing the same thing over and over again just to gain access to higher level content. In the end, the grind was too much and we all quit the game.

Fast forward a few years, and me and my friends played Dragon Nest, and again, still grinding. Running the same dungeon DOZENS of times to get a single level, with no variety. You HAVE to run this dungeon to get to the next level, as other dungeons either took too long, or barely gives any exp. People used ‘boost’ others, helping them clear dungeons quickly with a high level character in their party for a price.
That’s not mentioning the pay-wall you have to pass to get to the final content, as without good gear, you won’t get a place in a party to clear raids. Without doing raids, there is no reliable way to make money, which means you don’t get good gear.
Only way to get pass the pay wall? Spend hundreds of hours farming gold to have a chance to get mediocre gear to be ‘barely’ accepted into a party, or open your wallet and buy things foo the cash shop to sell/ buy equips from players using cash.

THAT is GRINDING. If you don’t DO THIS, you will not get to do ALL THE OTHER THINGS AFTER THIS.

What you guys complain about is FARMING, which is OPTIONAL.
Can you enjoy the game withoutAscended Gear/ Legendary Gear?
Yes.

Do you NEED to repeatedly run dungeons to enjoy all the content?
No.

Do you NEED to get that awesome looking Legendary/Skin to play the game?
No.

Those “grindy” items, such as Legendaries and Ascended Armor are more like a status symbol, a sign that you have invested time and money into the game. They are hard to get for a reason.

And, if there are no ‘grindy’ things in GW2, then what is the point? There will be nothing to work towards. It might as well be a single player game with a multiplayer function.

And btw, I have yet to see an F2P game with more customizing option then Gw2, especially for free.
Arguably Maple Story had larger variety of outfits and skins, but 99% of them are DURATIONAL and is only purchasable by using REAL MONEY. No ‘convert in-game currency to cash shop currency’.
And the skins of Dragon Nest costs more than 30-40 USD for a single ‘low grade’ set, and to get the best skins, you have to pray to RNGesus and spend MORE money to combine two lower grade skins (with the obligatory extra fee of the combination device of course) for a chance to get a better skin. None of that BS in GW2.

I’m still amazed that GW2 has no subscription fee, and it is ridiculously cheap (I got it during a sale some time ago), which is definitely a steal.
So for those who compare gw2 to those F2P mmos I’ve grown to detest so much (especially after playing gw2), I dare you to actually try to get into a real F2P mmo, filled with Pay-to-Win ideologies, before QQing about GW2 just because you are too lazy or too cheap to invest time and/or money into the game.

Amazing post. And hits the nail on the head.

Yeah, MapleStory defined grind for me. Bland outfits, microscopic storage. Grinding a ton of critters to get X drops of Y only to get to go back and get X drops of Z from the slightly different color critter in the same area that takes five minutes to get to and get back from.

GrandHaven.1052:

So now people are complaining about the B2P model?

Where are the days when it was the best thing since sliced bread.

Entitlement is just too much with some people..

There’s no one single B2P model just like there’s not a single subscription model to fit all games out there. This B2P model just happens to have heavy anti-farming anti-legit rewards systems combined with a draconian system that they say is just for bots (but it’s never been for bots and has yet to actually do anything about bots) combined with an extremely heavy RNG system for anything worth anything.

The grind is real, it’s not entitlement to expect enjoyment without forking out more money after you’ve bought the game, it’s just good consumer business sense. You don’t buy a phone and then have to pay more just to be able to use the apps that are supposed to be free on the phone that it comes with, say the email for example. If you were to be charged per email even when you’re paying for your internet access already, and you’ve bought the phone, and all you want to do is email your mom or get emails from your friends and there’s a severe chance that you’ll never get them or they won’t receive yours you’d be disappointed too I’m sure of it.

Now if you want me to use an analogy that has to be the equivalent of progression, how about if you’re about to get a really great job with a company that pays extremely well and all you have to do is send out an email and your phone is the only way you can. How would you feel if you have that extreme chance that your email never arrives which prevents you from getting the job all because the design of the app didn’t allow for it to work properly by design not by bugs by design. You’d be pretty mad right?

Test.8734:

Mightybird.6034:

why does gw2 feel like a grindy f2p?

The original Guild Wars made money mostly through selling new campaigns. Much like a book (in the meaning that you read a book, and if you enjoyed it you will likely buy the sequel), ArenaNet used to make content that would be fun for players, so, when players were done with it, they would wait for the next chapter of the game. The original Guild Wars didn’t get microtransactions until late in its life, and those were never the focus.

GW2 is the opposite. We do pay to buy the game, but ArenaNet’s focus is on the Gem Store. Which means, instead of focusing on fun content, ArenaNet cares about artificially increasing the game’s life by encouraging repetition (read: grind) and by encouraging daily log-ins (the dailies, now the log-in rewards) in order to increase player exposure to the Gem Store and hopefully have people buy stuff from it.

Since F2P games usually rely on the same strategy, it’s to be expected that GW2 would feel like it were F2P.

The main change, I think, is that now people are willing to pay more for less. Back in the days of the original Guild Wars – which, remember, was released more or less when WoW was first released, so pay to play and grind were not as widespread and F2P games were very rare – we didn’t have so many people willing to pay for subpar content that they don’t even enjoy but that gives them a shiny reward. Now, well…

Yup, people have been brainwashed into accepting the F2P and DLC business models. Its funny and sad at the same time watching people defend the companies ripping them off giving them subpar content just because its not as awful as some of the competition. Like being not as bad makes something automatically good.

EazyPanda.6419:

Ugh please, have any of those people complaining actually played an actual f2p MMORPG game?

I remember when I first started MMOing with Maple Story almost a decade ago. Forget skins and money, it took me and my friends MONTHS to grind a single character to 4th job, not even to cap level. We didn’t even had time to worry about skins or stats or whatnot. We had to GRIND on mobs just to to able to ACCESS content. Hundreds of hours of pressing a button, killing mobs, taking advantage of every double exp events, doing the same thing over and over again just to gain access to higher level content. In the end, the grind was too much and we all quit the game.

Fast forward a few years, and me and my friends played Dragon Nest, and again, still grinding. Running the same dungeon DOZENS of times to get a single level, with no variety. You HAVE to run this dungeon to get to the next level, as other dungeons either took too long, or barely gives any exp. People used ‘boost’ others, helping them clear dungeons quickly with a high level character in their party for a price.
That’s not mentioning the pay-wall you have to pass to get to the final content, as without good gear, you won’t get a place in a party to clear raids. Without doing raids, there is no reliable way to make money, which means you don’t get good gear.
Only way to get pass the pay wall? Spend hundreds of hours farming gold to have a chance to get mediocre gear to be ‘barely’ accepted into a party, or open your wallet and buy things foo the cash shop to sell/ buy equips from players using cash.

THAT is GRINDING. If you don’t DO THIS, you will not get to do ALL THE OTHER THINGS AFTER THIS.

What you guys complain about is FARMING, which is OPTIONAL.
Can you enjoy the game withoutAscended Gear/ Legendary Gear?
Yes.

Do you NEED to repeatedly run dungeons to enjoy all the content?
No.

Do you NEED to get that awesome looking Legendary/Skin to play the game?
No.

Those “grindy” items, such as Legendaries and Ascended Armor are more like a status symbol, a sign that you have invested time and money into the game. They are hard to get for a reason.

And, if there are no ‘grindy’ things in GW2, then what is the point? There will be nothing to work towards. It might as well be a single player game with a multiplayer function.

And btw, I have yet to see an F2P game with more customizing option then Gw2, especially for free.
Arguably Maple Story had larger variety of outfits and skins, but 99% of them are DURATIONAL and is only purchasable by using REAL MONEY. No ‘convert in-game currency to cash shop currency’.
And the skins of Dragon Nest costs more than 30-40 USD for a single ‘low grade’ set, and to get the best skins, you have to pray to RNGesus and spend MORE money to combine two lower grade skins (with the obligatory extra fee of the combination device of course) for a chance to get a better skin. None of that BS in GW2.

I’m still amazed that GW2 has no subscription fee, and it is ridiculously cheap (I got it during a sale some time ago), which is definitely a steal.
So for those who compare gw2 to those F2P mmos I’ve grown to detest so much (especially after playing gw2), I dare you to actually try to get into a real F2P mmo, filled with Pay-to-Win ideologies, before QQing about GW2 just because you are too lazy or too cheap to invest time and/or money into the game.

Behellagh.1468:

Yeah, MapleStory defined grind for me. Bland outfits, microscopic storage. Grinding a ton of critters to get X drops of Y only to get to go back and get X drops of Z from the slightly different color critter in the same area that takes five minutes to get to and get back from.

Just because something is worse doesn’t mean the thing its worse than is good.

Asudementio.8526:

It feels that way because that is what it is.

Effort = feels like grind. Gimme gimme gimme everything for zero effort.

Lobo Dela Noche.5127:

Just because something is worse doesn’t mean the thing its worse than is good.

No but MMOs require a constant stream of income. And it’s either through subscription or cash shops. GW was an anomaly and while it sold a far number of boxes, it was the fact that GW2 was being developed that kept the servers up when it’s income was less than $15 million in the two years before GW2 came out. Not $15 million a year, $15 million in two years.

Therefore various techniques are common place to keep players playing and one is requiring a lot of time gathering and processing materials to craft the top rung items or to accumulate enough currency to buy some high end item.

Another is slow travel and running back to quest givers to finish it. GW2 eliminated these which makes the overall game faster but now makes the previous farming that’s found in all MMOs really stick out like a sore thumb.

Celtic Lady.3729:

As a B2P, they’ve got to make money with their store since they have no income from monthly subs. At least their store is less essential to actual gameplay than many others where you feel like you can’t hardly do anything without buying something.

I’d complain about that!!

If they want to make money off me and want me to buy their stuff, THEN LET ME FRIGGIN BUY IT! Let me pull out my wallet and BUY (not grind) for the stuff they sell, like Shadow Dye kits, Braham’s Mace/Shield skin, Belinda’s Greatsword skin, etc. I can understand they want to keep players playing and buying gems, but when there’s nothing in the gemstore I want (or more aptly, what I want isn’t in the gem store) what do they want me to do!?

Mightybird.6034:

and by that I mean the nickle and diming grindy feel whenever you want to change your character’s appearance or have more than character 5 slots or more bank slots or….etc. Like I paid 50+ USD $ for it when it originally came out. Played since day 1. I’ve got like two, TWO pieces of cosmetics I’ve unlocked (like the special ones you can apply for free) . Seriously? There are f2p games with more cosmetic options for less time spent.

Sure there are random loot crap unlocks. I’m talking about looks you’d actually want on your character. I know the token thingys arent too hard to grind but they’re still a grind. for a paid model I should be able to change my appearance on a whim.

why? its simple, this game has no culture and no value on individuality. that’s why. anyways, let’s hope that this problem changes over time.

Eurhetemec.9052:

Better than SWTOR, though, talk about “nickle and dimed”!

The in game reward systems in swtor are in actual fact less grindy than GW2. Yes swtor has a lot available in its gem store but you can buy them with gold as well and its easier earning gold via a variety of methods in swtor than it is in GW2.

morrolan.9608:

Eurhetemec.9052:

Better than SWTOR, though, talk about “nickle and dimed”!

The in game reward systems in swtor are in actual fact less grindy than GW2. Yes swtor has a lot available in its gem store but you can buy them with gold as well and its easier earning gold via a variety of methods in swtor than it is in GW2.

Grind and nickle-and-dimed are two different things. Guild Wars 2 is pretty decent about not making me feel “nickle-and-dimed”, i.e. that I am being charged for every little thing. I do think some prices are a little unreasonable (to the point where I simply don’t pay them, so if they were better priced, I’d actually spend more money! Transmog and hair style stuff fr’ex), and the default bank size is kind of pathetic, but I don’t feel like I’m being ripped off, at all.

This is very different to a lot of F2P games.

What it does feel like, for me, is that every minute GW2 exists, the possibility of using in-game found gold to buy gems gets further and further away, rather than merely staying even with inflation. Which is sad but… meh…

Leo G.4501:

Celtic Lady.3729:

As a B2P, they’ve got to make money with their store since they have no income from monthly subs. At least their store is less essential to actual gameplay than many others where you feel like you can’t hardly do anything without buying something.

I’d complain about that!!

If they want to make money off me and want me to buy their stuff, THEN LET ME FRIGGIN BUY IT! Let me pull out my wallet and BUY (not grind) for the stuff they sell, like Shadow Dye kits, Braham’s Mace/Shield skin, Belinda’s Greatsword skin, etc. I can understand they want to keep players playing and buying gems, but when there’s nothing in the gemstore I want (or more aptly, what I want isn’t in the gem store) what do they want me to do!?

Umm…you can?

Buy gems, convert to gold, buy whatever you want from the TP. Buying gems and converting to gold was put in there so people can use cash to bypass the “grind” and farming. They can get those skins for cash.

However, people look at the exchange rate, and don’t feel that it current rate for gold via gems is very good, so they don’t use it. But what they also fail to realize that in order for gem to gold prices to rise, they need to convert gems to gold. This also lowers the cost of gold for gems.

In any event the system is in place to do just what you are describing. Pull out your wallet, buy gems, convert to gold, and buy the skins you are looking for.

tigirius.9014:

…….You don’t buy a phone and then have to pay more just to be able to use the apps that are supposed to be free on the phone …….

Besides storage (that you CAN get with in-game gold, BTW), name me ONE thing you ABSOLUTELY NEED to spend RL $ on to play GW2?

Also, the fact that EVERYTHING can be obtained via in-game gold (gold to gems) discounts every claim that Anet MAKES you spend RL $. Is it more convenient? Sure…but there is an option (a HUGE distinction from most F2P games).

GW2s economic model has NOT changed since release (tho I will agree it has leaned more toward gemstore based rewards than I would like). The fact that it is highly successful for ANET (and NCSoft seems to like the status quo), attempting to change this model with some sort of grass roots player movement is just a waste of effort. If you feel that “grinding” or "nickle and diming " is beyond what you can stand, there are hundreds of other MMOs you can go play.

“Have fun storming the castle!”

tigirius.9014:

…….You don’t buy a phone and then have to pay more just to be able to use the apps that are supposed to be free on the phone …….

Clearly you’ve never used an Apple product…. :P

pdavis.8031:

Leo G.4501:

Celtic Lady.3729:

As a B2P, they’ve got to make money with their store since they have no income from monthly subs. At least their store is less essential to actual gameplay than many others where you feel like you can’t hardly do anything without buying something.

I’d complain about that!!

If they want to make money off me and want me to buy their stuff, THEN LET ME FRIGGIN BUY IT! Let me pull out my wallet and BUY (not grind) for the stuff they sell, like Shadow Dye kits, Braham’s Mace/Shield skin, Belinda’s Greatsword skin, etc. I can understand they want to keep players playing and buying gems, but when there’s nothing in the gemstore I want (or more aptly, what I want isn’t in the gem store) what do they want me to do!?

Umm…you can?

Buy gems, convert to gold, buy whatever you want from the TP. Buying gems and converting to gold was put in there so people can use cash to bypass the “grind” and farming. They can get those skins for cash.

However, people look at the exchange rate, and don’t feel that it current rate for gold via gems is very good, so they don’t use it. But what they also fail to realize that in order for gem to gold prices to rise, they need to convert gems to gold. This also lowers the cost of gold for gems.

In any event the system is in place to do just what you are describing. Pull out your wallet, buy gems, convert to gold, and buy the skins you are looking for.

Ahem…
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Braham%27s_Mace_Skin
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Braham%27s_Shield_Skin
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Belinda%27s_Greatsword_Skin

Scipio.3204:

Just a flesh wound.3589:

It was way more than character slots.

With cash you could buy all the skills in a campaign at the start, instead of having to play to unlock. This included PvP. You could unlock all the skill and items with cash and play your first PvP game with all skills and items instead of having to play to unlock more than the starter skills/items. You got access to better starter weapons. You got a fire imp that followed you around in PvE and leveled up to 20 with you and fought beside you (and didn’t take up a party slot). You could also buy bonus missions with exclusive weapon skins as a reward for completing. Rangers could pay to unlock all the pets. You could buy mercenaries. These were your level 20 alts who you could fully gear up and give skills to who would fight beside you.

Try doing your first PvP match with only basic skills and equipment against someone who had all the skills and items bought from the ingame store and tell me if that’s not ptw.

http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Guild_Wars_In-Game_Store

I can’t really comment on the PvP skill pack, because at that time I didn’t even know about it yet I unlocked all the skills in a relatively short time….. but don’t say it like there is nothing similiar in GW2 because there is even if it is not that visible.

People seem to forget that everything you can buy with gold you can buy it with cash. A new player can open his wallet to unlock every trait and get a decent gear just right after he reaches lvl 80, meanwhile another player struggle to get those in weeks. Also if they want the most prestigious items in the game? Can be solved by spending a few hunder $ and they look like they have been playing for years by day 2. I don’t really see how this is better.

Even a new level 80 should have the karma on hand to get exotic karma gear at 80(which can’t be bought with gold/gems). And with the new trait system coming, they will probably have enough to unlock all the traits if they bothered to do any exploration while they leveled. I guess current legendary weapons are an issue still. Good thing the new legendary weapons won’t be tradeable.

And personally, if someone is willing to pay $500+ dollars to look cool, I am ok with that. My achievement score is still way higher, so they will get booted from the speed run group before me and my luminescent armor.

Leo G.4501:

pdavis.8031:

Leo G.4501:

Celtic Lady.3729:

As a B2P, they’ve got to make money with their store since they have no income from monthly subs. At least their store is less essential to actual gameplay than many others where you feel like you can’t hardly do anything without buying something.

I’d complain about that!!

If they want to make money off me and want me to buy their stuff, THEN LET ME FRIGGIN BUY IT! Let me pull out my wallet and BUY (not grind) for the stuff they sell, like Shadow Dye kits, Braham’s Mace/Shield skin, Belinda’s Greatsword skin, etc. I can understand they want to keep players playing and buying gems, but when there’s nothing in the gemstore I want (or more aptly, what I want isn’t in the gem store) what do they want me to do!?

Umm…you can?

Buy gems, convert to gold, buy whatever you want from the TP. Buying gems and converting to gold was put in there so people can use cash to bypass the “grind” and farming. They can get those skins for cash.

However, people look at the exchange rate, and don’t feel that it current rate for gold via gems is very good, so they don’t use it. But what they also fail to realize that in order for gem to gold prices to rise, they need to convert gems to gold. This also lowers the cost of gold for gems.

In any event the system is in place to do just what you are describing. Pull out your wallet, buy gems, convert to gold, and buy the skins you are looking for.

Ahem…
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Braham%27s_Mace_Skin
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Braham%27s_Shield_Skin
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Belinda%27s_Greatsword_Skin

I don’t understand. You want items that were only available through the gem store for a limited time, and somehow that means its a grind?
I’m not sure what your complaint is….

Brother Grimm.5176:

tigirius.9014:

…….You don’t buy a phone and then have to pay more just to be able to use the apps that are supposed to be free on the phone …….

Besides storage (that you CAN get with in-game gold, BTW), name me ONE thing you ABSOLUTELY NEED to spend RL $ on to play GW2?

Also, the fact that EVERYTHING can be obtained via in-game gold (gold to gems) discounts every claim that Anet MAKES you spend RL $. Is it more convenient? Sure…but there is an option (a HUGE distinction from most F2P games).

GW2s economic model has NOT changed since release (tho I will agree it has leaned more toward gemstore based rewards than I would like). The fact that it is highly successful for ANET (and NCSoft seems to like the status quo), attempting to change this model with some sort of grass roots player movement is just a waste of effort. If you feel that “grinding” or "nickle and diming " is beyond what you can stand, there are hundreds of other MMOs you can go play.

“Have fun storming the castle!”

Define “hasn’t changed”.

The basic nature of the transaction hasn’t changed. Gems haven’t got more expensive with RL money. That’s good.

But the gold-gems conversion rates have changed so much that it’s gone from a game where you could have a serious expectation of buying stuff for gems without serious farming to one where you will have to farm farm farm, and where it gets more and more extreme.

I understand why, but it is kind of sad.

because … it is a grindy f2p?

you add almost jack all to your game for two years yet you need to keep people interested. so what do you do? you add pointless baubles and outfits for people to play dress up with but stick them behind massive time gates to keep them playing.

pdavis.8031:

Leo G.4501:

pdavis.8031:

Leo G.4501:

Celtic Lady.3729:

As a B2P, they’ve got to make money with their store since they have no income from monthly subs. At least their store is less essential to actual gameplay than many others where you feel like you can’t hardly do anything without buying something.

I’d complain about that!!

If they want to make money off me and want me to buy their stuff, THEN LET ME FRIGGIN BUY IT! Let me pull out my wallet and BUY (not grind) for the stuff they sell, like Shadow Dye kits, Braham’s Mace/Shield skin, Belinda’s Greatsword skin, etc. I can understand they want to keep players playing and buying gems, but when there’s nothing in the gemstore I want (or more aptly, what I want isn’t in the gem store) what do they want me to do!?

Umm…you can?

Buy gems, convert to gold, buy whatever you want from the TP. Buying gems and converting to gold was put in there so people can use cash to bypass the “grind” and farming. They can get those skins for cash.

However, people look at the exchange rate, and don’t feel that it current rate for gold via gems is very good, so they don’t use it. But what they also fail to realize that in order for gem to gold prices to rise, they need to convert gems to gold. This also lowers the cost of gold for gems.

In any event the system is in place to do just what you are describing. Pull out your wallet, buy gems, convert to gold, and buy the skins you are looking for.

Ahem…
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Braham%27s_Mace_Skin
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Braham%27s_Shield_Skin
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Belinda%27s_Greatsword_Skin

I don’t understand. You want items that were only available through the gem store for a limited time, and somehow that means its a grind?
I’m not sure what your complaint is….

lol I love how people don’t read. Try going back and reading the context of the posts.

Eurhetemec.9052:

Brother Grimm.5176:

tigirius.9014:

…….You don’t buy a phone and then have to pay more just to be able to use the apps that are supposed to be free on the phone …….

Besides storage (that you CAN get with in-game gold, BTW), name me ONE thing you ABSOLUTELY NEED to spend RL $ on to play GW2?

Also, the fact that EVERYTHING can be obtained via in-game gold (gold to gems) discounts every claim that Anet MAKES you spend RL $. Is it more convenient? Sure…but there is an option (a HUGE distinction from most F2P games).

GW2s economic model has NOT changed since release (tho I will agree it has leaned more toward gemstore based rewards than I would like). The fact that it is highly successful for ANET (and NCSoft seems to like the status quo), attempting to change this model with some sort of grass roots player movement is just a waste of effort. If you feel that “grinding” or "nickle and diming " is beyond what you can stand, there are hundreds of other MMOs you can go play.

“Have fun storming the castle!”

Define “hasn’t changed”.

The basic nature of the transaction hasn’t changed. Gems haven’t got more expensive with RL money. That’s good.

But the gold-gems conversion rates have changed so much that it’s gone from a game where you could have a serious expectation of buying stuff for gems without serious farming to one where you will have to farm farm farm, and where it gets more and more extreme.

I understand why, but it is kind of sad.

You do realize that gem conversion rates are based on player interactions right? The more people use gold to get gems, the price goes up. The more players convert gems to gold the price goes down. It was set that way from launch and hasn’t changed at all. (And no prices of gems are not a indication of inflation.)

Leo G.4501:

pdavis.8031:

Leo G.4501:

pdavis.8031:

Leo G.4501:

Celtic Lady.3729:

As a B2P, they’ve got to make money with their store since they have no income from monthly subs. At least their store is less essential to actual gameplay than many others where you feel like you can’t hardly do anything without buying something.

I’d complain about that!!

If they want to make money off me and want me to buy their stuff, THEN LET ME FRIGGIN BUY IT! Let me pull out my wallet and BUY (not grind) for the stuff they sell, like Shadow Dye kits, Braham’s Mace/Shield skin, Belinda’s Greatsword skin, etc. I can understand they want to keep players playing and buying gems, but when there’s nothing in the gemstore I want (or more aptly, what I want isn’t in the gem store) what do they want me to do!?

Umm…you can?

Buy gems, convert to gold, buy whatever you want from the TP. Buying gems and converting to gold was put in there so people can use cash to bypass the “grind” and farming. They can get those skins for cash.

However, people look at the exchange rate, and don’t feel that it current rate for gold via gems is very good, so they don’t use it. But what they also fail to realize that in order for gem to gold prices to rise, they need to convert gems to gold. This also lowers the cost of gold for gems.

In any event the system is in place to do just what you are describing. Pull out your wallet, buy gems, convert to gold, and buy the skins you are looking for.

Ahem…
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Braham%27s_Mace_Skin
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Braham%27s_Shield_Skin
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Belinda%27s_Greatsword_Skin

I don’t understand. You want items that were only available through the gem store for a limited time, and somehow that means its a grind?
I’m not sure what your complaint is….

lol I love how people don’t read. Try going back and reading the context of the posts.

The context of the posts was that Anet needs money from gem sales. Although the items in the gem store are non-essential to game play when compared to other MMOs…

And you responded you want to be able to buy certain things from the gem store without grinding, by pulling out your wallet and buying something. You then used some examples of limited time items that were only available through the gem store. You also said that some of those items are not in the gem store, which implies they could be available on the TP.

My response was that through gem conversion you can buy items with gold from the TP, thus not being a grind. And it also implied that if some items are only available in the gem store, you can still use your wallet to buy gems and get those items. However, some of those items were limited edition, and no longer available.

I don’t see what limited edition gem store items have to do with grind. You want to buy gem store items, then you can. There is no need to grind for it.

Again, your rant doesn’t really make sense. And just a comment about the context shows that you yourself aren’t really sure about the point you were trying to make.

So please tell me, how are limited edition gem store items related to grind?

Leo G.4501:

pdavis.8031:

Leo G.4501:

Celtic Lady.3729:

As a B2P, they’ve got to make money with their store since they have no income from monthly subs. At least their store is less essential to actual gameplay than many others where you feel like you can’t hardly do anything without buying something.

I’d complain about that!!

If they want to make money off me and want me to buy their stuff, THEN LET ME FRIGGIN BUY IT! Let me pull out my wallet and BUY (not grind) for the stuff they sell, like Shadow Dye kits, Braham’s Mace/Shield skin, Belinda’s Greatsword skin, etc. I can understand they want to keep players playing and buying gems, but when there’s nothing in the gemstore I want (or more aptly, what I want isn’t in the gem store) what do they want me to do!?

Umm…you can?

Buy gems, convert to gold, buy whatever you want from the TP. Buying gems and converting to gold was put in there so people can use cash to bypass the “grind” and farming. They can get those skins for cash.

However, people look at the exchange rate, and don’t feel that it current rate for gold via gems is very good, so they don’t use it. But what they also fail to realize that in order for gem to gold prices to rise, they need to convert gems to gold. This also lowers the cost of gold for gems.

In any event the system is in place to do just what you are describing. Pull out your wallet, buy gems, convert to gold, and buy the skins you are looking for.

Ahem…
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Braham%27s_Mace_Skin
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Braham%27s_Shield_Skin
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Belinda%27s_Greatsword_Skin

Which I got with gold bought gems. I convert a % of my gold to gems every week, saving them up for when something goes on sale, returns or simply cool at the Gem Shop.

As for the conversion rate from Gems to Gold being low? One RMT is offering 1000 gold for roughly $98. At the exchange at the moment 999 gold cost 7,597 gems or $95. One can get you into trouble and one can’t and can’t happens to be cheaper at the moment. I think the exchange rate is fine and dandy.

They day you play a MMoRPG where you have to spent 1~2 hours killing the very same mob in the same area with the same party for like 1% of experience then you will understand the meaning of the word grind.

MMos aren’t games made to be played for 10 hours and get stashed. If you don’t accept that, you simply shouldn’t be playing MMoRPGs.

And yes, FARMING in this game is frustrating, but grind is nonexistent.

I’m going to explain the context politely because I’m nice and not a kitten who tries to sound snarky on forums. Although I do sometimes go for snarky, perhaps you really don’t understand what I’m speaking of…

pdavis.8031:

The context of the posts was that Anet needs money from gem sales. Although the items in the gem store are non-essential to game play when compared to other MMOs…

The context was “Anet needs to make money in their gem store since they don’t have monthly subs” to which I complain that “Apparently they don’t want to REALLY make money because they don’t want to offer what I want to buy”.

Temporary content, temporary items and limited time offers, alright. I get it. The tactic is to get you to use cash to get gems before time runs out. So why not just sell the same stuff (the examples I put up) for cash with no exception for exchanging in-game gold for gems? It gets the exact same results: Offer something for a limited time through the gem store. If you couldn’t farm up enough gold to convert to gems to get it, don’t worry! Just buy it with cash or wait until the next time it’s offered on the gem store!

My situation is, with the job I work, I often get called out for weeks to months at a time. With their rotational gem store items, I have no idea when something will arrive back in the gem store again if ever and if I happen to be called away at the time (most likely, I’ll be gone again for another couple of months starting mid-June) I wouldn’t even know I missed it until after I did. At the VERY least, if I knew in advance something I wanted was coming into the store, I could either plan for it somehow (unlikely but at least the option is there) or keep the hope that it will still come around again at a prior indicated scheduled date(!!!)

Has nothing to do with grinding or gem to gold exchange rate or b2p or whatever and all to do with “do you want to make money? then sell me the stuff you’re selling”.

Leo,

So the chief complaint is not being able to buy limited edition items from the gem store….

Which as you’ve said, has nothing to do with grind. Which in turn really has nothing to do with the topic at hand…

@Leo G

Well your situation, while not unique, is certainly in the minority. ANet has to draw the line somewhere in terms of activity. So we get weekend specials or items that last a few weeks before vanishing for a while. A few times there been daily sales but that revolves around some real world event, a con, the game’s aniversary, the holidays. But generally I believe they expect players to log in and play at least some time on the weekend or during the week.

To satisfy players like yourself then the item needs to be in the gem store forever, without the sales tactics that drive gem sales while also depleting in game gold reserves. If the last returning item drained your gold reserve the latest sale may drive you to buy gems with cash and in the end, that’s what ANet wants to happen.

If it’s always available you could save up gold to buy it which eliminates the desperate gem purchases because it’s leaving in 12 hours. In short the sale tactics on the Gem Store cater to the large majority of players who play daily or at least weekly. The work 3 weeks, have a week off to binge play player is an outlier.

It’s like the whole gem exchange/gem shop. If you don’t have a lot of disposable income but have time to play, you can grind for gold to buy items from the gem shop. If you do have a lot of disposable income but not a lot of time to play you can buy gems with cash and either buy gem shop items or in game gold. But if you don’t have either, time nor disposable income, you’re left out in the cold.

ANet can’t satisfy all types of players.

Guild wars 2 feels grindy to you because treat it like it is your life and not a game. The moment you realize it is just a game, is the moment you will stop seeing it as grindy.

There is nothing inherently grindy about guild wars 2. The game doesn’t force you to grind unless if you choose to grind. You can play every content at basic level (meaning 0-11 fractures) with exotics that even at release took a week of casual playing to get.

Guild wars 2 is a game that has both hyundais and Audi. Getting the Hyundai is easy and you can go from A to Z just as well as the Audi. The problem is people think the only way to go from A to Z is with the Audi, even though the hyundai does just as well but with less style. Then they decide to waste their time farming then they complain that getting that Audi takes a lot of time, well what did you expect?

pdavis.8031:

Leo,

So the chief complaint is not being able to buy limited edition items from the gem store….

Which as you’ve said, has nothing to do with grind. Which in turn really has nothing to do with the topic at hand…

So you’re trying to troll then.

It’s your ineptitude that decided to focus on an aside that I directed toward a specific poster’s words, not really me trying to go off topic. But it does relate to the topic, if only slightly. There are different kinds of grinds, one being that I tend to have run ins with is the whole “daily login grind”.

Behellagh.1468:

@Leo G

Well your situation, while not unique, is certainly in the minority. ANet has to draw the line somewhere in terms of activity. So we get weekend specials or items that last a few weeks before vanishing for a while. A few times there been daily sales but that revolves around some real world event, a con, the game’s aniversary, the holidays. But generally I believe they expect players to log in and play at least some time on the weekend or during the week.

To satisfy players like yourself then the item needs to be in the gem store forever, without the sales tactics that drive gem sales while also depleting in game gold reserves. If the last returning item drained your gold reserve the latest sale may drive you to buy gems with cash and in the end, that’s what ANet wants to happen.

If it’s always available you could save up gold to buy it which eliminates the desperate gem purchases because it’s leaving in 12 hours. In short the sale tactics on the Gem Store cater to the large majority of players who play daily or at least weekly. The work 3 weeks, have a week off to binge play player is an outlier.

It’s like the whole gem exchange/gem shop. If you don’t have a lot of disposable income but have time to play, you can grind for gold to buy items from the gem shop. If you do have a lot of disposable income but not a lot of time to play you can buy gems with cash and either buy gem shop items or in game gold. But if you don’t have either, time nor disposable income, you’re left out in the cold.

ANet can’t satisfy all types of players.

Yes, I realize that. I’ve worked customer service too in my days. I’m not trying to be difficult to please though. I’m not really asking anything that isn’t a consumer’s right and I’m even going about it in a very civil way. The only thing I can assume is you’re trying to defend Anet’s tactic of sales? Which I’m not even attacking, just suggesting they improve it.

The game does an adequate job of making you not feel like you miss out if you take breaks from the game. I don’t feel it is necessary to provide players that do grind their logins to be rewarded with more rewards such as limited time sales (all the login rewards and dailies do well enough for that). But my beef isn’t with limited time offers or even with daily login grinds, it’s that there is no season, no schedule for these items. It would be different if items, like Halloween skins, were only sold around Autumn or some type of anniversary. The difficulty is not knowing and therefore cannot plan accordingly.

Beyond the several suggestions I already made, they could also rotate more items more often. Since I got back from hiatus in Dec. it feels like they haven’t rotated many of the old skins in. Here I am coming to half a year of coming back and playing and still many of them haven’t been rotated through. Popping through the store for a couple weeks once a year could definitely be increased.

Eurhetemec.9052:

Define “hasn’t changed”.

The basic nature of the transaction hasn’t changed. Gems haven’t got more expensive with RL money. That’s good.

But the gold-gems conversion rates have changed so much that it’s gone from a game where you could have a serious expectation of buying stuff for gems without serious farming to one where you will have to farm farm farm, and where it gets more and more extreme.

I understand why, but it is kind of sad.

I used the term “economic model”….that model itself has NO relation to the exchange rate. Thus, the model itself (how the game is ultimately funded and the in-game economy works “hasn’t changed”. It’s still the same (don’t know how to define it any better).

I don’t disagree with the general negativity about the gold to gems exchange rate (and I’m not going to get into the argument of just how it’s “regulated” by players….that’s another topic), but you must understand how MASSIVELY easier it is to earn gold now than it was when the game released. 100g was a number I couldn’t even grasp a month after release and you can easily earn that in a single TP session (or less than a month or so of rather casual farming). It’s not like the cost of gems has skyrocket and the ability to earn gold has stayed constant.

because … it is a grindy f2p?

you add almost jack all to your game for two years yet you need to keep people interested. so what do you do? you add pointless baubles and outfits for people to play dress up with but stick them behind massive time gates to keep them playing.

1. Please list your actual experience with ANY F2P game out there. I’m guessing you’ve never played one.
2. While I can accept a complaint about the quality of some of the content added over the past 2 years, claiming there has been NO content added is a flat out LIE and MASSIVE exaggeration that brings everything you say into question. The list of content added to GW2 is HUGE and never cost you a single PENNY (sans the latest LS2 series that required you to log in to get it for free).
3. I’m unaware of any baubles or outfits that are behind any time gates….please elaborate (again your credibility suffers due to misinformation…intentional or not).
4. Of COURSE they want you stay in the game….how is this a surprise to ANYONE? The only way Anet makes money (beyond the original game purchase) is to get players to buy gems with RL $. There are only 2 ways to purchase gems at this point and the retail gem cards are hard to come by these days. That leaves in-game purchase. If you aren’t in the game, how are you going to buy gems? Since Anet can almost ONLY earn additional revenue when you are in-game, why is it surprising that the content would be built to keep you logged in? If you feel that this is some sort of evil nefarious plan by Anet, I suggest you find another game to play (it’s simple survival in the business world).

Brother Grimm.5176:

tigirius.9014:

…….You don’t buy a phone and then have to pay more just to be able to use the apps that are supposed to be free on the phone …….

Besides storage (that you CAN get with in-game gold, BTW), name me ONE thing you ABSOLUTELY NEED to spend RL $ on to play GW2?

Also, the fact that EVERYTHING can be obtained via in-game gold (gold to gems) discounts every claim that Anet MAKES you spend RL $. Is it more convenient? Sure…but there is an option (a HUGE distinction from most F2P games).

GW2s economic model has NOT changed since release (tho I will agree it has leaned more toward gemstore based rewards than I would like). The fact that it is highly successful for ANET (and NCSoft seems to like the status quo), attempting to change this model with some sort of grass roots player movement is just a waste of effort. If you feel that “grinding” or "nickle and diming " is beyond what you can stand, there are hundreds of other MMOs you can go play.

“Have fun storming the castle!”

You can endlessly 8 hours a day. There I fixed it for you…

pdavis.8031:

tigirius.9014:

…….You don’t buy a phone and then have to pay more just to be able to use the apps that are supposed to be free on the phone …….

Clearly you’ve never used an Apple product…. :P

Actually that’s where my experience comes from with that example I used. Every time I’ve bought an Apple product it has free useful stuff that you don’t have to spend anything on to use and it integrates with Google to boot right out of the box.

Others can’t make that claim in fact the monthly charge for software for example would be a good subscription equivalent.

I guess what I’m saying is there are bad deals and then there are terrible deals. GW2 falls under the bad deal category in it’s current economic design. Now if they actually do something brilliant and impressive with their lack of rewards system coming in HoT that’s going to be a game changer because then you wouldn’t need 8 hours a day and login to this online job to achieve the gold you need you’d actually oh I don’t know play the game and be rewarded for your time and activities. Edit: And this of course is if you don’t suffer from the Perma DR or the unlucky account syndrome this type of loot design is infamous for historically.

I found it telling that even Angry Joe slipped up during his interview and mentioned that it would still be grind when talking to Collin sort of supports the OP’s case doesn’kitten

Doggie.3184:

If it feels that way then you haven’t played enough grindy f2p games.

Yeah go play SilkroadOnline. SRO is like the textbook definition of a grindy f2p.

@Leo G

So what you want is a direct or alternate proxy currency to purchase items if they are in the regular Gem Shop or not. Offering a service like that would alienate the player base.

The way we have it now, the playing field is level-ish. Doesn’t matter if you bought Gems with cash or with the dragon hoard pile of gold you have, both can only get items only when they are available. You want to use cash only as a way around that. That’s no better than VIP or some other kind of exclusive pay wall to content.

ANet doesn’t want two classes of players.

They often put what they are going to sell in the Guiildwars2.com. You could check that to see if something is available. If someone you trusted should happen to log on and buy it for you…….

Leo G.4501:

pdavis.8031:

Leo,

So the chief complaint is not being able to buy limited edition items from the gem store….

Which as you’ve said, has nothing to do with grind. Which in turn really has nothing to do with the topic at hand…

So you’re trying to troll then.

It’s your ineptitude that decided to focus on an aside that I directed toward a specific poster’s words, not really me trying to go off topic. But it does relate to the topic, if only slightly. There are different kinds of grinds, one being that I tend to have run ins with is the whole “daily login grind”.

Not trying to troll, just trying to get to the crux of your complaint. And as in your original comment, you brought up gem store items you wanted to “pull out my wallet and BUY (not grind) for the stuff they sell”
Which, carries the implication that stuff on the gem store can (in some sort of twisted way) be considered a grind. But the fact remains limited edition gem store items, in no way equate to a grind.

And there is no need for personal insults. Call it ineptitude, call it a comment that is specific to your situation, call it whatever you want. I was trying to understand the point that you were making. Which over all turned out to be “I miss the sales of certain items.” But that wasn’t exactly made clear in the comment.

As far as “daily login grinds”, how is that even a grind by any stretch of the definition? You load up GW2, press “Play” and you get a reward. Thats it.

zenleto.6179:

Mightybird.6034:

zenleto.6179:

So now paying for non-essential items is considered a grind? Have I read the post right?

I already paid 50 bucks plus tax for the game. Why am I still paying/grinding every time I want some decent/new/change. they are using a f2p model and still charging people.

And don’t give me non-esesential bullcrap. The whole thiing is non essential. Its a game you don’t need any of it.

But thiings are plenty essential! If we don’t have thiings then we barely exist!

I don’t know why I responded to this. I think I’ll just sit back for the rest of the thread.

From Shakespeare’s, King Lear…You said it perfectly, imo.

LEAR
Oh, don’t ask me why I “need” them! Even the poorest beggars have some meager possessions they don’t really “need.” If you allow people no more than what they absolutely need to survive, then a human life is no better than an animal’s. You’re a well-dressed lady. If you dressed only to stay warm, you wouldn’t need these gorgeous clothes you’re wearing—which don’t keep you warm at all. If you want to talk about true needs, what I really need is patience. Oh, gods, give me patience

I think GW2 should bring back the old true grind and death penalties of Everquest, just to give ’em all a real taste.

Watch these whiners quit the game in 2 days.

Calm down, calm down……just being sarcastically humorous!

(although would be fun to watch the caterwauling)

And to be honest, I wouldn’t play the game if it returned to that old formula either. I consider myself fortunate to have found an mmorpg that I enjoy, that allows me to be casual about my playing(if I want), while still offering a huge world to explore and challenges(if I want them). And this game does not have the trinity……tyvm, Anet!!!

Sure, there are problems with the game. (All mmorpgs have their own set of unique problems, issues, etc.) And I sure hope that anet does NOT read these forums much, as they’re much too populated with people who take the game way too seriously and think they have the best suggestions next to sliced bread for the game.

So far, I like the direction this game is heading(with a few minor issues), and I am sure I will be playing it for a long time to come.

For the rest of you who think you have such brilliant suggestions and know how to make the best mmorpg in the world……hey, make yourself a game company and knock yourselves out!

I look forward to seeing your solutions in making the perfect mmorpg.

And if you’re unable to do that and are truly that unhappy with this game…….you know what’s next……..

And go ahead and call me a white knight/fanboy/whatever the current term is……I won’t mind a bit.

Disclaimer: The above opinion is just my own…….there ARE suggestions on this board from time to time that are quite well thought out, logical, and practical to implement, imo. But for the most part?……..nah….just little kids wanting all the shineys on their terms.

Behellagh.1468:

@Leo G

So what you want is a direct or alternate proxy currency to purchase items if they are in the regular Gem Shop or not. Offering a service like that would alienate the player base.

OR some sort of rotational/seasonal schedule for the items.

OR rotating more things through the store more often.

Please don’t try to twist my intent to sound like I feel entitled thus the bad guy.

And this is what many are talking about with the forums at large being toxic. People feel some sort of agenda to create conflict and argument. They don’t see people expressing ill content that could be resolved or mitigated. They’d sooner label people as a minority and thus nothing should be done and dismiss their proposition at best, and at worse label that person a whiner and try to silence them.

You tell me what bad could happen if the devs considered doing any of what I suggest. And a currency to alienate players? You can’t be serious. I wouldn’t go so far as to think people could have such thin skin to feel alienated about purchasing a gem-store only item outside of in-game means. I mean, geeze, I could feel alienated that certain skins are being held from me for no reason other than for false scarcity but I don’t.

pdavis.8031:

Not trying to troll, just trying to get to the crux of your complaint. And as in your original comment, you brought up gem store items you wanted to “pull out my wallet and BUY (not grind) for the stuff they sell”
Which, carries the implication that stuff on the gem store can (in some sort of twisted way) be considered a grind. But the fact remains limited edition gem store items, in no way equate to a grind.

And there is no need for personal insults. Call it ineptitude, call it a comment that is specific to your situation, call it whatever you want. I was trying to understand the point that you were making. Which over all turned out to be “I miss the sales of certain items.” But that wasn’t exactly made clear in the comment.

As far as “daily login grinds”, how is that even a grind by any stretch of the definition? You load up GW2, press “Play” and you get a reward. Thats it.

It follows the same model: you keep logging in, you get free stuff and more opportunities to buy and sell from their gem store. But if you’re stuck off in some other country with your rifle with nary an phone to call home much less an internet connection for months, you’re just out of luck. It basically makes a group of “haves” and “haves not” depending if you have the option to log in whenever. And it’d be different if this was an in-game event item. But we’re talking about gem store items.

There are ways to fix things without pandering to any specific audience.

Leo G.4501:

Behellagh.1468:

@Leo G

So what you want is a direct or alternate proxy currency to purchase items if they are in the regular Gem Shop or not. Offering a service like that would alienate the player base.

OR some sort of rotational/seasonal schedule for the items.

OR rotating more things through the store more often.

Please don’t try to twist my intent to sound like I feel entitled thus the bad guy.

And this is what many are talking about with the forums at large being toxic. People feel some sort of agenda to create conflict and argument. They don’t see people expressing ill content that could be resolved or mitigated. They’d sooner label people as a minority and thus nothing should be done and dismiss their proposition at best, and at worse label that person a whiner and try to silence them.

You tell me what bad could happen if the devs considered doing any of what I suggest. And a currency to alienate players? You can’t be serious. I wouldn’t go so far as to think people could have such thin skin to feel alienated about purchasing a gem-store only item outside of in-game means. I mean, geeze, I could feel alienated that certain skins are being held from me for no reason other than for false scarcity but I don’t.

pdavis.8031:

Not trying to troll, just trying to get to the crux of your complaint. And as in your original comment, you brought up gem store items you wanted to “pull out my wallet and BUY (not grind) for the stuff they sell”
Which, carries the implication that stuff on the gem store can (in some sort of twisted way) be considered a grind. But the fact remains limited edition gem store items, in no way equate to a grind.

And there is no need for personal insults. Call it ineptitude, call it a comment that is specific to your situation, call it whatever you want. I was trying to understand the point that you were making. Which over all turned out to be “I miss the sales of certain items.” But that wasn’t exactly made clear in the comment.

As far as “daily login grinds”, how is that even a grind by any stretch of the definition? You load up GW2, press “Play” and you get a reward. Thats it.

It follows the same model: you keep logging in, you get free stuff and more opportunities to buy and sell from their gem store. But if you’re stuck off in some other country with your rifle with nary an phone to call home much less an internet connection for months, you’re just out of luck. It basically makes a group of “haves” and “haves not” depending if you have the option to log in whenever. And it’d be different if this was an in-game event item. But we’re talking about gem store items.

There are ways to fix things without pandering to any specific audience.

Or just put everything that has and will be on a rotational basis in the gem store……why not just put it all in the gem store all the time?

People can still get those items through playing the game……or they can buy them through the gem store, no matter their game playing schedule.

Anet makes more money, and players are happier because they can purchase whatever they want, whenever they want. Or they can ‘grind’ for them, if they would rather.

And the whole “I did it the real way”, versus the “I bought everything” argument is inconsequential anyways, as that argument already exists as the game currently is.

Problem solved, imo.

Tell me 1 MMO that you don’t grind for….if you can of course

Mono.7320:

Tell me 1 MMO that you don’t grind for….if you can of course

GW2 definitely has the least amount of required grind, imo. At least among all the mmorpgs I have played.

But you are correct……ALL mmorpgs have some sort of grind somewhere within the game……..that is just the nature of the beast(especially after one has played an mmorpg for more than a year)

Mightybird.6034:

and by that I mean the nickle and diming grindy feel whenever you want to change your character’s appearance or have more than character 5 slots or more bank slots or….etc. Like I paid 50+ USD $ for it when it originally came out. Played since day 1. I’ve got like two, TWO pieces of cosmetics I’ve unlocked (like the special ones you can apply for free) . Seriously? There are f2p games with more cosmetic options for less time spent.

Sure there are random loot crap unlocks. I’m talking about looks you’d actually want on your character. I know the token thingys arent too hard to grind but they’re still a grind. for a paid model I should be able to change my appearance on a whim.

The skin I want may not be the same skin you want. For example, I quite enjoy the Magician’s armor pieces (light armor) on my newly created Mesmer, while most of my friends think it’s repulsive. Just putting that out there.

I also think you’re misusing the word ‘grind’. What you’re referring to is called farming, not ‘grinding’. I can’t believe how often that word gets used, and in the worst possible contexts…

ArenaNet has to make money outside of their individual game sales, otherwise they’d just break even (best case) or lose money (worst case). Having their base model from the Gem Store is their greatest strength, and tying customization options into it is a great idea (and an understandable one). People want to look good, and if they want to do it fast, they’ll spend the dough (or gold). If not, they’ll just go out and complete a few maps, or make a new toon (if they have that ability) and map the hub cities again.

In fact, I recommend that if you have the open slot or drive to do so. Make a new toon, map its race’s hub city and then use the portal to Lion’s Arch from said city to map LA, then use the portals in LA to travel to the other hub cities and map those. That’s easily 6 Trans Charges for the effort. Not to mention you get almost enough levels to get to 10 so you can get a BL key from your story.

So, according to some people:
Time-gated items = grind
Limited edition item = grind
Daily Login = grind

I still don’t see how these how any of these is related to grinding.

Do those who complain actually experienced ‘grinding’ before? I’m sure you have, but you just don’t know it’s ‘grinding’

Remember Pokemon Red/Blue/Yellow? Remember the frustration when you couldn’t beat Brock’s Onix on the first try just because you picked a Charmander (or worse, forced to use a Pikachu)? Which led you to run around tall grass, burning/electrifying every single poor Pidgey and Ratatta you can, just to gain levels?
That is a form of GRINDING. A.K.A. doing something repetitive to gain levels/points to be able to access higher level content.

Quoting Wikipedia (a lousy un-credible source of info, but we are an un-credible bunch anyway):
Grinding is a term used in video gaming to describe the process of engaging in repetitive tasks during video games. The most common usage is in the context of MMORPGs like Realm of the Mad God, Tibia, or Lineage in which it is* often necessary for a character to repeatedly kill AI-controlled monsters, using basically the same strategy over and over again to advance their character level to be able to access newer content.* MUDs, generally sharing much of the same gameplay as MMORPGs, often feature grinding as well. Grinding may be required by some games to unlock additional features such as level progression or additional items.

For those who want an easy way to experience grinding, try playing Runescape ‘shudders’. Its a browser game, so no downloads required. Try experiencing waiting for ores to spawn (while competing against other players), sitting at a spot fishing, running around hitting things, running to the bank after your inventory gets full, rinse and repeat.
You’ll come to appreciate GW2 a lot more that way. Btw, Runescape offers a subscription based system as well, so in the long run, It’ll cost a lot more than GW2.
________________________________________________________________

From how I see it, Limited Edition Items are a sign of loyalty, dedication, and generally a sign that you were around at the time when said limited edition item is there
It’s a form of reward on its own. If you have been logging in frequently for the past 2 years, you would have had the chance to access these contents.
If I see a person with skins from Super adventure Box, I’ll know instantly that this person had been playing since 2013.
You can’t really expect a player who got GW2 for 10$ 2 years into the game to have the same privilege as a player who got GW2 at launch for 60$.

By bringing back limited edition items, Anet is doing us a favour, letting those who came in the game late to be able to have something only a loyal player should have. (Such as Chaos Weapons skins, I’m still drooling over my shiny new chaos dagger)

I’ll admit, something like the Luminescent armor set may be viewed as grindy if someone wants it really badly, but from the way I see it, the armor set is a REWARD for completing all the achievements in LS2.
There will be no point if a reward is simply purchasable, When you see someone with the armor set, you say ‘Wow, that person has the determination and patience to complete all achievements in LS2!’ ; compared to “oh that guy is rich, maybe he just bought gems to convert to gold”

Daily Login is a grind? Really? Daily logins are a REWARD, and it’s there to reward a player who logins frequently. It’s your own fault that you did not login when the thing you want is on sale. It’s also your own fault that you did not buy GW2 earlier during launch in the first place.

And don’t say I’m biased, I’m also a player who came in late into that game.
However, I do not expect Anet to give me special treatment, especially when i came into the game almost 2 years late, and paying for less than a third of the original price. (66% sale at the time)

Anyway.

As for time gated items, the only real time gated items I’ve found are Ascended trinkets (which are by no means compulsory), and Celestial gear for PvE. Ascended trinkets are easy to get, requiring less than 2 weeks of play. Celestial gear is the only true time gated weapon/armor set, but they are not really viable in PvE anyway, and as Berserker is always better in PvE.
In case you are not aware, materials for ascended gear can be bought straight from the trading post. The time gate only reduces the costs of the materials (at least only for Bolts of Damask and Deldrimore Ingots). You can even buy a legendary straight from the TP.

tl;dr
Stop complaining. What you people describe is not grinding.
Go play come real ‘f2p grindy’ games and we’ll welcome you back with open arms when you come running back crying.

EDIT grammar errors ._.

EazyPanda.6419:

-Snipped for length!-

Nicely typed. I dislike it when others use the word ‘grind’ in the wrong way, and it makes me harken back to the days of Final Fantasy II (IV) on the SNES. Grinding out those levels just to complete most of the sections…THAT’S grind. Having to speed needless amounts of time just to play the kitten game is grind. Not going after an optional skin/drop/shiny, that’s called farming.

And before somebody comes in and says, “Well you have to ‘grind’ to 80 to play Living Story!” Not really. But you also have Personal Story to do along the way. In Final Fantasy IV, there was no content to do while I leveled up. If there was (optional summon drops, equip drops) that was all OPTIONAL stuff, and I’d be farming for them. But my main goal was leveling to fight the boss or complete that section.

THAT’S grind.