Guild Wars 2

Galen Grey.4709:

Sarabande.8260:

This is a bit off topic, well a lot off topic, but, given your comment, I feel as if I must put it out there.

I like GW2, I like it a lot actually – but not having a trinity is a tough pill for me to swallow. It sucks for me, too – in a trinity MMO I always main heals and tank on the side. Rarely will one see me DPS because, well, over the long haul, it’s a boring role….

I disagree.. Its just done differently…. there is no healer role per-se in guild wars 2 but there is a support role you can play and the tools you’re given as a support role blows away every other MMO.

This is how I look at it personally… perhaps it will not apply to you but nothing lost by considering the following…

as a healer your primary aim is to keep your allies alive. In the majority of MMOs that means healing, buffing and cleansing conditions. In some games you cannot even do all these 3 at the same time but rather you need to choose one or two paths out of the 3. In Gw2 you’re not restricted in any way but you need to remember that in guild wars 2 keeping your allies alive isnt just about healing and buffing anymore. Its also about ensuring your allies arent hit (using conditions like blinding or reflect projectiles etc…) Its about ensuring that if an ally is in dire straits they can escape long enough to heal. (that can mean chilling, fearing, pushback etc…) It means reducing the damage they get (weaken the attacker, protection / aegis on friendly). It means helping your allies win before they die… (give them boons like might, quickness, retaliation etc..) as well as the usual heals and cleansing of conditions.

If you want to play support, its there, its just done different from what we’re used to thats all.

Yes, precisely. Then I went on to say:

Sarabande.8260:

Sure you have tanks in GW2, but they are “tanks.” Likewise you have healers, but they are only “healers.” Fact is, GW2 is a DPS-centric game.

^That’s the part that you conveniently clipped before going on to disagree. Note, I never said there wasn’t a support role in GW2. To make myself clear, let me say this: Although all healers may qualify as a support role, all support roles don’t qualify as a healer. I also went on to say:

Sarabande.8260:

I am happy there is no real (by “real” I mean dedicated) healing in this game.

Which means that I understand everything you wrote you, but was speaking to the role of dedicated healer, as in a trinity healer. I don’t know exactly what you’re disagreeing with. I addressed all your point, but you took a snippet and ran with it, which is fine, but here you are.

Now, GW2 is good what it is. I LIKE THE GAME, but for me as someone who enjoys healing, the game feels empty and fails to truly captivate me. Sure you can claim there are healers in GW2 just like you can claim there’s endgame, but it’s grasping at straws; it’s, like I said, scraping the bottom of the mayonnaise jar. Once again, like I said in the quote of mine that you snipped, the are healers in GW2, but they are “healers.” Just did AC last night in a group with no-one playing a support role. We only wiped once and that was on the Queen Spider thing and that’s because we totally screwed up.

Any answer to the title other than “because there wasn’t intended to be any ‘endgame’, and that’s okay” comes solely from uninformed consumers.

DusK.3849:

Any answer to the title other than “because there wasn’t intended to be any ‘endgame’, and that’s okay” comes solely from uninformed consumers.

I don’t buy that. Who ever said that there would be no end game? You’d be stretching to even say it was hinted at.

SHM.7628:

DusK.3849:

Any answer to the title other than “because there wasn’t intended to be any ‘endgame’, and that’s okay” comes solely from uninformed consumers.

I don’t buy that. Who ever said that there would be no end game? You’d be stretching to even say it was hinted at.

Not really. The pre-release ANet blog posts showed us exactly what we were getting, and even inspired other bloggers to summarize months before the game released because they knew that the lack of endgame would be a hard pill to swallow for typical MMO gamers still stuck in old conventions.

DusK.3849:

SHM.7628:

DusK.3849:

Any answer to the title other than “because there wasn’t intended to be any ‘endgame’, and that’s okay” comes solely from uninformed consumers.

I don’t buy that. Who ever said that there would be no end game? You’d be stretching to even say it was hinted at.

Not really. The pre-release ANet blog posts showed us exactly what we were getting, and even inspired other bloggers to summarize months before the game released because they knew that the lack of endgame would be a hard pill to swallow for typical MMO gamers still stuck in old conventions.

Some may have (accurately) deduced that there would be no endgame. There was no necessity that there be no endgame.

Example- there could have been some epilogue maps in each region. (Say level 80-82) Where you could complete a story objective and test your higher stats and gear.

This would be endgame (to me). It by no means ruins or clashes with their game model. I don’t think that it was predestined (or inevitable) that this model have no endgame by virtue of what it is.

roachsrealm.9284:

Its a living, breathing world in a virtual universe.

I think you need to define what you mean by living, breathing world.

Because to my mind GW2 is a static unchangeable world.

SHM.7628:

Seras.5702:

SHM.7628:

I just finished leveling a necro and it dawned on me. I grinded away to 80 It’s finally time to get get my gear, but I did everything. The maps entierly open. By 80 your build is pretty etched in stone.

Of course, I can’t get any temple armor because good luck getting one open durring a living story event. I would like to do get the temples for fun anyway. Let’s face it, Orr is a graveyard anyway. (no pun intended.)

Yes there’s living story, but that is dead in a week after release. Plus it further kills the other maps. Personal story? Once you don’t need the XP what is the point? Its usually an unrewarding pain.

If you only play 1 build then you’re only limiting yourself. Try other styles.

If you leveled 1-80 exploring the world then now might be time to jump into some dungeon groups.

Have you done fractals? Nope, cuz they’re 80 only. And they’re getting an update soon so there will be more to love.

WvW. Now that you’ve got your PvE build sussed out, try giving WvW a shot and finding your build for that. And gear…you’re gonna need new gear so that’s something to work toward. And despite the fact that WvW is accessible at level 2, you really aren’t competitive until around 80.

Want to do Orr but it’s dead (pun intended)? Then organize a group. Gather guildies, gather first-timers, gather random Lions Archers and lead your assault on the temples.

And most people find the Personal Story to be a highlight of the game. If you don’t like it you don’t have to play it, but many like it. It’s not always about the rewards, but the journey.

You can’t complain about no end game if you just don’t want to do it. It’s there. That’s like complaining that Papa Johns doesn’t have any topping selection because you only like pepperoni.

Its not that i don’t like what they are offering (Your Papa John’s analogy) I like the PVE a lot. (I am a straight up PVE player.) It’s more of a question of How its all laid out opposed it it being “bad”.

Some of what you said is true. I don’t really care for PVP. (Its not like I’ve never done dungeons) Obviously I haven’t done fractals on this toon because It just hit max level. I have leveled 7 toons to 80 already for the record though. Fractals and dungeons are not my thing. even less so in GW2 with its wonky camera.

You brought up living story. Yes, some of it was amazingly enjoyable. It’s either super fun or super annoying. The first week its a super fun and easy. After the zerg dies out its ridiculously difficult.

GW2 seems to only have 2 dificulty levels. Toddler easy and impossibly difficult. For example the halloween crafting was near impossible to do without purchasing the mats. High level crafting, legendaies, gear chase and map completion fall into this catagory for me too.

Seems to me that your entire problem would be solved by joining an active PvE guild. Then you’d have people to help you through stuff and wouldn’t have to depend on random people doing it.

Vayne.8563:

SHM.7628:

Seras.5702:

SHM.7628:

I just finished leveling a necro and it dawned on me. I grinded away to 80 It’s finally time to get get my gear, but I did everything. The maps entierly open. By 80 your build is pretty etched in stone.

Of course, I can’t get any temple armor because good luck getting one open durring a living story event. I would like to do get the temples for fun anyway. Let’s face it, Orr is a graveyard anyway. (no pun intended.)

Yes there’s living story, but that is dead in a week after release. Plus it further kills the other maps. Personal story? Once you don’t need the XP what is the point? Its usually an unrewarding pain.

If you only play 1 build then you’re only limiting yourself. Try other styles.

If you leveled 1-80 exploring the world then now might be time to jump into some dungeon groups.

Have you done fractals? Nope, cuz they’re 80 only. And they’re getting an update soon so there will be more to love.

WvW. Now that you’ve got your PvE build sussed out, try giving WvW a shot and finding your build for that. And gear…you’re gonna need new gear so that’s something to work toward. And despite the fact that WvW is accessible at level 2, you really aren’t competitive until around 80.

Want to do Orr but it’s dead (pun intended)? Then organize a group. Gather guildies, gather first-timers, gather random Lions Archers and lead your assault on the temples.

And most people find the Personal Story to be a highlight of the game. If you don’t like it you don’t have to play it, but many like it. It’s not always about the rewards, but the journey.

You can’t complain about no end game if you just don’t want to do it. It’s there. That’s like complaining that Papa Johns doesn’t have any topping selection because you only like pepperoni.

Its not that i don’t like what they are offering (Your Papa John’s analogy) I like the PVE a lot. (I am a straight up PVE player.) It’s more of a question of How its all laid out opposed it it being “bad”.

Some of what you said is true. I don’t really care for PVP. (Its not like I’ve never done dungeons) Obviously I haven’t done fractals on this toon because It just hit max level. I have leveled 7 toons to 80 already for the record though. Fractals and dungeons are not my thing. even less so in GW2 with its wonky camera.

You brought up living story. Yes, some of it was amazingly enjoyable. It’s either super fun or super annoying. The first week its a super fun and easy. After the zerg dies out its ridiculously difficult.

GW2 seems to only have 2 dificulty levels. Toddler easy and impossibly difficult. For example the halloween crafting was near impossible to do without purchasing the mats. High level crafting, legendaies, gear chase and map completion fall into this catagory for me too.

Seems to me that your entire problem would be solved by joining an active PvE guild. Then you’d have people to help you through stuff and wouldn’t have to depend on random people doing it.

A good and reasonable suggestion. I don’t think it would add endgame, but certainly useful. I’m taking a break for now. I’ve done that a few times already. On resuming, I’ve often found things very different that when I last played. (Sometimes that has been good and sometimes not so much.) I am not particularlly thrilled with fractals so the timing seems right.

I think, for me, one frustrating thing about end-game in GW2 is no matter what I am doing I always feel like I should be earning money. Anything that is not earning money feels like a waste of time.

Ideally, I would like to do content because it is fun and earning money while doing it is just a bonus (like how it is when you’re leveling). Sadly, farming champions in Queensdale or killing world bosses is not fun because playing in a zerg does not require skill, and farming dungeons gets repetitive because “Stack here to kill the boss” isn’t interesting gameplay.

Finnway.2183:

I think, for me, one frustrating thing about end-game in GW2 is no matter what I am doing I always feel like I should be earning money. Anything that is not earning money feels like a waste of time.

Why?
Who cares about money? Get enough to get your gear..then who cares? It serves little purpose other than to brag once you’re geared. Everything else is luxury fluff.
I play “endgame” as I want. Changes day to day. WvW, tequatl, fractals, PvP….I’ll do whatever I feel like. Money does add up as I do these things, and I have nothing to spend it on that I even want.
I work all week for money at my job. I’d rather play the game and enjoy myself rather than have a 2nd job.

MrRuin.9740:

Why? Who cares about money? [snip]
I work all week for money at my job. I’d rather play the game and enjoy myself rather than have a 2nd job.

I agree. But every post level-80 reward in the game is tied to money. Skins are tied to money. You can buy things in the shop with money (transmutation crystals, for example). Reaching level 500 crafting costs absurd money. You can level alts faster with money.

btw, no need to be a snarky.

Finnway.2183:

I agree. But every post level-80 reward in the game is tied to money. Skins are tied to money. You can buy things in the shop with money (transmutation crystals, for example). Reaching level 500 crafting costs absurd money. You can level alts faster with money.

btw, no need to be a snarky.

All fluff. I don’t need any of that. Some of it I get for looks just because I have the coin laying around from otherwise playing. But otherwise, none of it is required or needed at all. Even ascended gear, while a boost, isn’t necessary for any content, tho of course Ascended provides the old gear-grind endgame some people are used to – the grind to BiS.
There’s lots to do….for fun. If your focused on big reward and monetary gain, then yeah this game lacks that kind of endgame, especially where the money you can grind doesn’t do much beyond fluff. Even Legendary are fluff as you can get the same stats on weapons that cost far less.

MrRuin.9740:

There’s lots to do….for fun.

I never said there wasn’t. What I said was:

Finnway.2183:

no matter what I am doing I always feel like I should be earning money. Anything that is not earning money feels like a waste of time. Every post level-80 reward in the game is tied to money.

Because in an RPG earning rewards and growing your character slowly over time is a hallmark of the genre.

Finnway.2183:

Finnway.2183:

no matter what I am doing I always feel like I should be earning money. Anything that is not earning money feels like a waste of time. Every post level-80 reward in the game is tied to money.

And what do you do in an RPG? You earn rewards slowly over time. It’s a hallmark of the genre.

I have fun. I do things with my guild. I go into WvW. I PvP. I run fractals. I do Tequatl. I help people out with stuff they’re doing. I get rewards for doing this stuff. Usually nothing extravagant because the fun in the activities I choose to do is why I play and what I do. If I get something real nice for doing these things, its a bonus, not the sole reason I do them.

Scrambles.2604:

i think for a lot of people WvW is endgame.

i think originally they intend for WvW and sPvP to be end game.

unfortunately, guild wars 2 attracted way too many PvE care bears.

them PvE care bears do not WvW or sPvP and kept demanding for more PvE content.

and so we have living stories nowadays.

I have a lot of fun trying to get ascended gear and skins. Run the weekly guild missions to get guild commendations till you get your accessory. Run fractals till you get the rings. Run dungeons to get gold for better skins. Or for different skins. I love having interchangeable weapons. Then theres dyes I have yet to unlock (celestial and abyss). Also need to unlock all the inventory slots. And the bank* slots. I still got more than plenty to do. I don’t think this game is for you.

Has the OP actually defined what his endgame IS? ‘I want endgame’ with no clarification is not helpful.

Sylv.5324:

Has the OP actually defined what his endgame IS? ‘I want endgame’ with no clarification is not helpful.

There’s a lot of posts on this topic in which i describe what endgame is.. I’ll be more succinct about what I think endgame is and what it isn’t.

Endgame is: PVE content that was designed to be done by my max level toon once I have mastered it and reasonably equipped it. It helps if itis compelling and relevent to the story. I can include some be 80-85 maps

What it is not:

-chasing titles
-grinding
-Elite (or normal) duneons
-PvP
-WvW
-crafting
-a gear grind treadmill
-recycled content that I completed at level 70
-time fillers.

I am not knocking any of what I listed above. (with the exception of a gear grind treadmill) I am just saying they are not endgame.

Causic.3798:

I have a lot of fun trying to get ascended gear and skins. Run the weekly guild missions to get guild commendations till you get your accessory. Run fractals till you get the rings. Run dungeons to get gold for better skins. Or for different skins. I love having interchangeable weapons. Then theres dyes I have yet to unlock (celestial and abyss). Also need to unlock all the inventory slots. And the bank* slots. I still got more than plenty to do. I don’t think this game is for you.

I never said that there was nothing to do. I said there was no endgame.

SHM.7628:

Sylv.5324:

Has the OP actually defined what his endgame IS? ‘I want endgame’ with no clarification is not helpful.

There’s a lot of posts on this topic in which i describe what endgame is.. I’ll be more succinct about what I think endgame is and what it isn’t.

Endgame is: PVE content that was designed to be done by my max level toon once I have mastered it and reasonably equipped it. It helps if it is compelling and relevent to the story. I can include some be 80-85 maps

What it is not:

-chasing titles
-grinding
-Elite (or normal) duneons
-PvP
-WvW
-crafting
-a gear grind treadmill
-recycled content that I completed at level 70
-time fillers.

I am not knocking any of what I listed above. (with the exception of a gear grind treadmill) I am just saying they are not endgame.

So end game is repeated content?* You can already do that….
And what do you mean reasonably well equiped, shouldn’t end game be once your fully equiped?
Elaborate on this
“PVE content that was designed to be done by my max level toon once I have mastered it and reasonably equipped it.”

MrRuin.9740:

Finnway.2183:

I agree. But every post level-80 reward in the game is tied to money. Skins are tied to money. You can buy things in the shop with money (transmutation crystals, for example). Reaching level 500 crafting costs absurd money. You can level alts faster with money.

btw, no need to be a snarky.

e money you can grind doesn’t do much beyond fluff. Even Legendary are fluff as you can get the same stats on weapons that cost far less.

I disagree that ascended and legendaries are all fluff. They provide a 5% stat advantage. If 2 people are otherwise on equal footing skill wise but one has a 5% advantage stat wise. The guy with the stat advantage will win almost every time. 5% more defense and damage per hit is a massive. It may sound small but it’s a huge advantage over time.

Stats are not fluff, stats are stats.

Plus, he’s right you need a huge amount of money to craft or buy such stat gear. That constantly puts you in a faming mindset. (not fun)

You have to aslo remember that not every player is you. You may play a lot more than another player. You may find this feels bareable. Others might starkly disagree.

Causic.3798:

SHM.7628:

Sylv.5324:

Has the OP actually defined what his endgame IS? ‘I want endgame’ with no clarification is not helpful.

There’s a lot of posts on this topic in which i describe what endgame is.. I’ll be more succinct about what I think endgame is and what it isn’t.

Endgame is: PVE content that was designed to be done by my max level toon once I have mastered it and reasonably equipped it. It helps if it is compelling and relevent to the story. I can include some be 80-85 maps

What it is not:

-chasing titles
-grinding
-Elite (or normal) duneons
-PvP
-WvW
-crafting
-a gear grind treadmill
-recycled content that I completed at level 70
-time fillers.

I am not knocking any of what I listed above. (with the exception of a gear grind treadmill) I am just saying they are not endgame.

So end game is repeated content?* You can already do that….
And what do you mean reasonably well equiped, shouldn’t end game be once your fully equiped?
Elaborate on this
“PVE content that was designed to be done by my max level toon once I have mastered it and reasonably equipped it.”

Agreed, reasonably equipped=fully equipped.

I don’t know what you are reading. I said repeat content is not endgame.

SHM.7628:

Causic.3798:

SHM.7628:

Sylv.5324:

Has the OP actually defined what his endgame IS? ‘I want endgame’ with no clarification is not helpful.

There’s a lot of posts on this topic in which i describe what endgame is.. I’ll be more succinct about what I think endgame is and what it isn’t.

Endgame is: PVE content that was designed to be done by my max level toon once I have mastered it and reasonably equipped it. It helps if it is compelling and relevent to the story. I can include some be 80-85 maps

What it is not:

-chasing titles
-grinding
-Elite (or normal) duneons
-PvP
-WvW
-crafting
-a gear grind treadmill
-recycled content that I completed at level 70
-time fillers.

I am not knocking any of what I listed above. (with the exception of a gear grind treadmill) I am just saying they are not endgame.

So end game is repeated content?* You can already do that….
And what do you mean reasonably well equiped, shouldn’t end game be once your fully equiped?
Elaborate on this
“PVE content that was designed to be done by my max level toon once I have mastered it and reasonably equipped it.”

Agreed, reasonably equipped=fully equipped.

I don’t know what you are reading. I said repeat content is not endgame.

Can you redefine endgame then, yours is much too vague. FotM would fit your description of Endgame.

Causic.3798:

SHM.7628:

Causic.3798:

SHM.7628:

Sylv.5324:

Has the OP actually defined what his endgame IS? ‘I want endgame’ with no clarification is not helpful.

There’s a lot of posts on this topic in which i describe what endgame is.. I’ll be more succinct about what I think endgame is and what it isn’t.

Endgame is: PVE content that was designed to be done by my max level toon once I have mastered it and reasonably equipped it. It helps if it is compelling and relevent to the story. I can include some be 80-85 maps

What it is not:

-chasing titles
-grinding
-Elite (or normal) duneons
-PvP
-WvW
-crafting
-a gear grind treadmill
-recycled content that I completed at level 70
-time fillers.

I am not knocking any of what I listed above. (with the exception of a gear grind treadmill) I am just saying they are not endgame.

So end game is repeated content?* You can already do that….
And what do you mean reasonably well equiped, shouldn’t end game be once your fully equiped?
Elaborate on this
“PVE content that was designed to be done by my max level toon once I have mastered it and reasonably equipped it.”

Agreed, reasonably equipped=fully equipped.

I don’t know what you are reading. I said repeat content is not endgame.

Can you redefine endgame then, yours is much too vague. FotM would fit your description of Endgame.

Raiding dungeons is not PVE endame. Its a group instance you raid for loot. Fun? perhaps, but not relevant to my characters development.

And this is why ANet doesn’t even take “endgame”-minded players seriously; there’s not even a consensus on what “endgame” actually is.

XD

Endgame is when one has reached maxed level and begins pursuing longer term goals. These goals include things like: maxing a crafting discipline; getting the cosmetics one wants; upgrading your gear (in GW2 that means getting ascended gear).

End-game also usually has challenging content that requires you to make use of all game mechanics introduced to you while leveling. In an MMO it is usually multiplayer oriented content.

Does anyone else want to add anything to that?

A couple more thoughts:

• Crafting — Crafting materials are worth more than the items they create. It is cheaper to buy an item off the TP then to craft it yourself. The only reason to level crafting is for food/buffs, ascended gear, and/or role-playing.

• Challenging Content —PvE content is not hard. There are a couple reasons for this. Part of it is because when they designed the game they envisioned the majority of the players wearing rare-level gear. Someone above me also said that Anet probably intended WvW to be end-game for PvE players. This is probably accurate.

• Cosmetics —Once you get the cosmetics you want there is no more progression in this area.

• Fractals —Fractals are end-game content by design. They are more challenging then dungeons, they drop exclusive skins, and you’re working toward ascended gear. The problem with them is they don’t have a sense of progression outside of fractals because the only reason you need ascended equipment is for agony resistence (which is only useful in fractals).

Finnway.2183:

• Crafting — Crafting materials are worth more than the items they create. It is cheaper to buy an item off the TP then to craft it yourself. The only reason to level crafting is for food/buffs, ascended gear, and/or role-playing.

Standard on pretty much every MMO. Only exception is when crafting it itself a tedious process, and the reason is that there’s a reward for making the items (XP).

Finnway.2183:

A couple more thoughts:

• Crafting — Crafting materials are worth more than the items they create. It is cheaper to buy an item off the TP then to craft it yourself. The only reason to level crafting is for food/buffs, ascended gear, and/or role-playing.

• Challenging Content —PvE content is not hard. There are a couple reasons for this. Part of it is because when they designed the game they envisioned the majority of the players wearing rare-level gear. Someone above me also said that Anet probably intended WvW to be end-game for PvE players. This is probably accurate.

• Cosmetics —Once you get the cosmetics you want there is no more progression in this area.

• Fractals —Fractals are end-game content by design. They are more challenging then dungeons, they drop exclusive skins, and you’re working toward ascended gear. The problem with them is they don’t have a sense of progression outside of fractals because the only reason you need ascended equipment is for agony resistence (which is only useful in fractals).

- Crafting is not endgame. Crafting is crafting. You can persue it on any level toon you have. You can max crafting and never play with that toon at all.

-Fractals We can agree to disagree on this one. There nothing more than elite dungeons to raid. Doesn’t qualify IMO.

-cosmetics I don’t think cosmetics are are endgame. I don’t think equiping your toon is endagme at all. Its a longterm goal like titles. If it’s endgame for you then fine.

I think of engame of more being about new maps and content that you do at max level that is significant to your progression. I feel as if I should have some open world PVE content as endgame.

just my 2 cents. I am sure others disagree on some points.

SHM.7628:

I just finished leveling a necro and it dawned on me. I grinded away to 80 It’s finally time to get get my gear, but I did everything. The maps entierly open. By 80 your build is pretty etched in stone.

Of course, I can’t get any temple armor because good luck getting one open durring a living story event. I would like to do get the temples for fun anyway. Let’s face it, Orr is a graveyard anyway. (no pun intended.)

Yes there’s living story, but that is dead in a week after release. Plus it further kills the other maps. Personal story? Once you don’t need the XP what is the point? Its usually an unrewarding pain.

are you seriously planning to play with that build forever? man you are missing on sooooo much! I keep swapping my build just for fun and to learn my class

Orr does need a revamp… still, if you check on one of those websites you can see where the temples are open and guest there, problem solved, also you can get exotic gear extremely easy from dungeons

oh the personal story, is such a nice concept, but it seriously needs more work, I liked it up until I had to go to orr, Living world is fine though, I’d like to see all these events effecting the personal story, that would be cool

@ SHM

You’re just looking for content for when you are max level.

This would be the entire game you haven’t already done once you reach 80.

The things you are disqualifying as endgame are classically considered endgame by players, while other players do not classify it as endgame.

When people say there is no endgame it has 1 very simple meaning. It means there is a lack of content available that they enjoy doing.

I would agree that gear treadmills, be they power or cosmetic, are not content. It’s an obvious grind to get something via time spent over skill.

When you have enough people saying there is no endgame that’s the same thing as saying people don’t have anything worth doing after doing the story and reaching level 80. It just so happens that this is true of Guild Wars 2. The only things to do after the story, dungeons, and leveling are fractals and gear grind.

SHM.7628:

[snip]

You might want to reread my posts. You’re confusing where I use to word “end-game” and where I use the term “progression.” I use them for different things. i.e. crafting is not end-game, but it is a form of progression which could be end-game in the form of achieving personal goals.

Finnway.2183:

Endgame is when one has reached maxed level and begins pursuing longer term goals. These goals include things like: maxing a crafting discipline; getting the cosmetics one wants; upgrading your gear (in GW2 that means getting ascended gear).

End-game also usually has challenging content that requires you to make use of all game mechanics introduced to you while leveling. In an MMO it is usually multiplayer oriented content.

Does anyone else want to add anything to that?

A couple more thoughts:

• Crafting — Crafting materials are worth more than the items they create. It is cheaper to buy an item off the TP then to craft it yourself. The only reason to level crafting is for food/buffs, ascended gear, and/or role-playing.

• Challenging Content —PvE content is not hard. There are a couple reasons for this. Part of it is because when they designed the game they envisioned the majority of the players wearing rare-level gear. Someone above me also said that Anet probably intended WvW to be end-game for PvE players. This is probably accurate.

• Cosmetics —Once you get the cosmetics you want there is no more progression in this area.

• Fractals —Fractals are end-game content by design. They are more challenging then dungeons, they drop exclusive skins, and you’re working toward ascended gear. The problem with them is they don’t have a sense of progression outside of fractals because the only reason you need ascended equipment is for agony resistance (which is only useful in fractals).

SHM.7628:

-Fractals We can agree to disagree on this one. They’re nothing more than elite dungeons to raid. Doesn’t qualify IMO.

[snip]

I think of endgame of more being about new maps and content that you do at max level that is [b]significant to your progression.

I think Fractals include everything you listed you want from end-game, except they’re not open-world maps.

• They are new maps, albeit they are dungeons not open world.

• They are max-level only content.

• They provide progression in the form of ascended gear, difficulty scaling, and personal-reward levels.

Because self imposed difficulty is the only difficulty left in this game.

Although I heard people had a bit of trouble in the aetherblade dungeon when it was released, as was with the new Teq. Unfortunately I never got to experience them, as such they’ll never be difficult for me.

Generally speaking, endgame in other MMOs is highly rewarding and challenging content; endgame is something to do once you master your profession/build and there has been very little to scratch this itch in PvE. This is quite puzzling for as the combat is fairly enjoyable.

Handicapping oneself for a challnge or being sub-optimal does not count because endgame is something to do once you master your build.

Deimos Tel Arin.7391:

Scrambles.2604:

i think for a lot of people WvW is endgame.

i think originally they intend for WvW and sPvP to be end game.

unfortunately, guild wars 2 attracted way too many PvE care bears.

them PvE care bears do not WvW or sPvP and kept demanding for more PvE content.

and so we have living stories nowadays.

I think some had no choice but to do PvE because WvW is atrocious in its current state. If it wasn’t just about flipping towers and zerging down everything, I think more players would actually get on.

Because there isn’t.

Deimos Tel Arin.7391:

Scrambles.2604:

i think for a lot of people WvW is endgame.

i think originally they intend for WvW and sPvP to be end game.

unfortunately, guild wars 2 attracted way too many PvE care bears.

them PvE care bears do not WvW or sPvP and kept demanding for more PvE content.

and so we have living stories nowadays.

For me its the opposite, I played RvR MMOs for more than seven years, and before that I played many FPS games and other PvP games like Starcraft, and still do. I am not by any means a “PvE Carebear”. I mostly hang out in PvE in GW2 because its RvR and PvP implementations are , quite frankly, terrible. They keep trying to be something that does not work well in RPGs. The content team needs to learn that this isn’t Quake 3: Team Arena, and start giving us other ways to play besides capturing locations or rolling over everything in zergs for various forms of points and loot.

Anyone who has played a true(typically DAoC-based) RvR MMO with hours-long open-field battles and strategic sieges of forts knows that GW2’s smash-together-and-explode approach to zerg vs zerg battles is little more than lazy coding. At this time, roaming and other small skirmish fights is the only salvation for WvW. Running across a map, dying to 100 people and waypointing only to do it again… ?

If you’re going to have such a zergy, mindless game, at least add a decent rezz system that doesn’t involve having to start over every five minutes.

SHM.7628:

I think of engame of more being about new maps and content that you do at max level that is significant to your progression. I feel as if I should have some open world PVE content as endgame.

just my 2 cents. I am sure others disagree on some points.

I’ve always just thought of end-game as game specific and generally whatever it is you do to occupy your time at max level in whatever game you are playing. In some games it’s raiding and hopping on the gear treadmill, in others it is PvP, in this one it is dungeon running, getting skins, WvWvW, PvP, crafting for BiS, etc.

Whether or not you like the end-game options that GW2 offers doesn’t change the fact that they are indeed end-game.