Guild Wars 2

Sorry ANet, I can’t invest any more time trying to master this “puzzle”. I appreciate the diversity of activities you’ve incorporated into the Halloween event — all of them are very creative. However adding something like the clock tower as an “achievement” to a short, two-week event was probably a bad idea. I would have spent far less of time on the tower if it was simply another activity in the cornucopia of halloween awesomness.

The fact is this is an MMO where game mechanics are heavily managed by the server. My position in the world is server calculated, not local to my computer. Latency between client and server can make this puzzle exceptionally difficult to complete. You guys know this, and it’s nice to see an MMO push boundaries — but hey, don’t make it an achievement!

The players that enjoy the clock tower will enjoy it regardless of achievement (otherwise all these “clock tower is great” posts are hypocritical). Achievements should be something that are achievable by your complete player base (and yes some with significant effort). However unlike “grindy” achievements, you can’t progress to completion on the clock tower — it’s all or none baby! You either have the “stuff” as a player to complete this puzzle or you don’t. Unfortunately the “stuff” may be a low latency connection to the server — I wasn’t born with that stuff

EDIT:
After the discussions in this thread, I think the better solution (in retrospect) would be to keep the achievement, but change the puzzle to be a client-side application instead of a server-side. This eliminates the BS of my internet connection in the mix. As a side effect it also results in a solo adventure, removing the noise of obstructed views.

" Achievements should be something that are achievable by your complete player base (and yes some with significant effort)."

I don’t hear you complain about the HoM achievements.

People that reach the top of the tower really DID achieve something, why not get an achievement for it?

I dont nock the tower for my lack of skill and inabuilty to get to the top. I do give big props to the one’s who have done what i cant seem to

I cant blame my FPS because i run at about 60. I cant blame the norn or the char because as is im often the last man standing. i just can seem to not fall

juno.1840:

Achievements should be something that are achievable by your complete player base (and yes some with significant effort).

Achievements should be…. an achievement. Finishing the clock tower is one of the biggest achievements in the game right now.

You can progress on HoM achievements incrementally. Some of the HoM achievements are very very time consuming (I know — I have all of them). But here’s the rub — you can still progress. With sufficient time and effort (and a few other things) you can surmount those challenges. Need 10000 drinks, well you can hit 500 on Monday, and shoot for another 500 on tuesday. It’s “achievable” — latency isn’t going to screw me out of my 10000 drinks.

This achievement is all-or-none and has dependence on factors outside your control (i.e. latency). That makes it a bad candidate for an achievement in my book. There are other jumping puzzles in the game which have achievement, but these are fundamentally different.

juno.1840:

You can progress on HoM achievements incrementally. Some of the HoM achievements are very very time consuming (I know — I have all of them). But here’s the rub — you can still progress. With sufficient time and effort (and a few other things) you can surmount those challenges. Need 10000 drinks, well you can hit 500 on Monday, and shoot for another 500 on tuesday. It’s “achievable” — latency isn’t going to screw me out of my 10000 drinks.

This achievement is all-or-none and has dependence on factors outside your control (i.e. latency). That makes it a bad candidate for an achievement in my book. There are other jumping puzzles in the game which have achievement, but these are fundamentally different.

Most of the HoM achievements aren’t really achievements though. They aren’t difficult, they’re just hours and hours of grinding.

I don’t have Eye of the North. I can’t get any HoM achievement.

Thankfully, most people don’t care what criteria for “Should be an achievement, should not be an achievement” is in your book.

Just Arenanets.

After some tries the tower becomes so easy and fun that any normal person can make it.
Even when i was falling over and over again i couldnt hate the tower because i was always having fun.
And is much more fun doing it with other ppl, is always good watching them falling one after another lool.

Best jumping puzzle ever made, thank you very much ArenaNet

I’m at nearly 5 hours of trying still can’t get up there. cursing ANet every step of the way and probably going to burn out after it.

The first time up did take me 4-5 hours of failed attempts before I finally succeeded. It was a truly sweet victory when I finally made it. After that I continued to attempt it for another 4 hours, just because I found it to be a lot of fun. I still failed more than I succeeded, but I ended up completing it about 14 times.

Great job on the clock tower, ArenaNet. I found it really addicting and fun. I really like the format, too…with other players around adding to the challenge (darn you, norns and charr!) and silliness as we talked in between runs.

I finally finished the tower tonight. 4:58 A.M. in fact.

I really really don’t do well with “THE FLOOR WILL EAT YOU! JUMP TO THIS TINY SPOT!” but eventually I was able to do it. 12 hours and a billion tries later. (Over a few days…)

I’m glad to have finished. I will never go back. Good riddance.

However, I wouldn’t change a thing about it (Except the crowd of people. It’s difficult enough already without all the distractions as well.)

You get achievement by effort not by doing easy thing otherwise it won’t be called achievement.

Also no one forces you to do it if you don’t like it.

I havent complete it myself as well. But it is something that depends on skill and skill only.

Other people blocking your char isnt really valid as the vast majority stays behind a few seconds into the game.

It is an achievement, and only those who are good/patient enough should achieve.

Please, return your gamer card if you can’t understand some obstacle are way above your personal capacity.

Sentinel VX.1392:

You get achievement by effort not by doing easy thing otherwise it won’t be called achievement.

Completely agree — I did not say otherwise. However there’s an underlying assumption that anyone can complete it. This achievement is unique to GW2 (to date) in that it also requires a low-latency connection (and to a lesser degree good gaming hardware).

Sentinel VX.1392:

Also no one forces you to do it if you don’t like it.

Unfortunately it does if you’re an achievement hound. This applies to any achievement: Some players do not enjoy the dungeons, but they’ll be forced to do dungeons if they want achievement completion.

This particular achievement is a little different from many others because: (1) it’s around for a short time, (2) it’s effected by your server latency to a greater degree than the other achievements, (3) it’s not incrementally completed.

The Clock Tower Jumping Puzzle is a challenge, so challenge yourself. If ArenaNet created all the content for the event to be easy, people would play through it once and be done with it. That’s exactly how the scavenger hunts for the Mad Memoires book went down. There is a nice enjoyable hunt, but nobody would try it more than once. The Clock Tower is something that if people want to challenge themselves and attempt it, they can. If you don’t succeed, who cares? You can get get the boots other ways (such as killing the Mad King or buying them on the Trading Post). It took me a little over 3 hours to finish the Clock Tower for the first time, but after that I can now do it easily. It just takes practice. Some people do it first go, others could try all day and still not get it. As I’ve already said, it’s an optional challenge with alternative ways to get the rewards, so if you’re up for it just challenge yourself and have fun.

So let me get this straight. Anet needs to balance all future content in the game based on the lowest skilled player in the game so it’s “fair”? Yeah…I don’t see that working out to well.

juno.1840:

Sentinel VX.1392:

You get achievement by effort not by doing easy thing otherwise it won’t be called achievement.

Completely agree — I did not say otherwise. However there’s an underlying assumption that anyone can complete it. This achievement is unique to GW2 (to date) in that it also requires a low-latency connection (and to a lesser degree good gaming hardware).

Sentinel VX.1392:

Also no one forces you to do it if you don’t like it.

Unfortunately it does if you’re an achievement hound. This applies to any achievement: Some players do not enjoy the dungeons, but they’ll be forced to do dungeons if they want achievement completion.

This particular achievement is a little different from many others because: (1) it’s around for a short time, (2) it’s effected by your server latency to a greater degree than the other achievements, (3) it’s not incrementally completed.

If you are a “real” achievement hunter then you should not complain about it unless the achievement is broken or no body can do it, instead you should keep trying until you can get the achievement.

I’ve seen people doing it 17 hours straight, at the end they were able to do it because of their hardwork and determination.

All hardwork will be paid off at the end sooner or later.

fellyn.5083:

So let me get this straight. Anet needs to balance all future content in the game based on the lowest skilled player in the game so it’s “fair”? Yeah…I don’t see that working out to well.

Nobody said this, or even implied anything close. In addition, no where did this thread say “throw away the clock tower puzzle”. Don’t make up your own drama.

This thread is a lament on ANet’s choice of achievements for the holiday event — specifically an achievement that’s:

1. Dependent upon client/server latency
2. Cannot be incrementally progressed
3. Exists for a short time frame

It’s a worthy topic because achievements are a serious goal for many players.

juno.1840:

This thread is a lament on ANet’s choice of achievements for the holiday event — specifically an achievement that’s:

1. Dependent upon client/server latency
2. Cannot be incrementally progressed

It’s a worthy topic because achievements are a serious goal for many players.

What are you talking about? You don’t even need to finish the puzzle for the achievement. You just need to attempt it.

And many players could also get this achievement.
And you can’t.

Why should their fun and feeling of achievement be compromised because a small group of players can’t finish this achievement.

juno.1840:

fellyn.5083:

So let me get this straight. Anet needs to balance all future content in the game based on the lowest skilled player in the game so it’s “fair”? Yeah…I don’t see that working out to well.

Nobody said this, or even implied anything close. In addition, no where did this thread say “throw away the clock tower puzzle”. Don’t make up your own drama.

This thread is a lament on ANet’s choice of achievements for the holiday event — specifically an achievement that’s:

1. Dependent upon client/server latency
2. Cannot be incrementally progressed
3. Exists for a short time frame

It’s a worthy topic because achievements are a serious goal for many players.

If people were serious about achievements they wouldn’t have any issue working at it until they get it.

And you might have a point if no one could finish it but people have so any argument you have is moot.

Slushey.8236:

juno.1840:

This thread is a lament on ANet’s choice of achievements for the holiday event — specifically an achievement that’s:

1. Dependent upon client/server latency
2. Cannot be incrementally progressed

It’s a worthy topic because achievements are a serious goal for many players.

What are you talking about? You don’t even need to finish the puzzle for the achievement. You just need to attempt it.

There’s a clock-tower puzzle achievement for 10 points. You may be referring to the achievement where you have to find four places in the MK’s realm.

juno.1840:

Slushey.8236:

juno.1840:

This thread is a lament on ANet’s choice of achievements for the holiday event — specifically an achievement that’s:

1. Dependent upon client/server latency
2. Cannot be incrementally progressed

It’s a worthy topic because achievements are a serious goal for many players.

What are you talking about? You don’t even need to finish the puzzle for the achievement. You just need to attempt it.

There’s a clock-tower puzzle achievement for 10 points. You may be referring to the achievement where you have to find four places in the MK’s realm.

I think he meant for the title.

Considering they were only expecting 5% of the player base to actually PASS the clock tower, it SHOULD be an achievement!

juno.1840:

My position in the world is server calculated

Nope, it isn’t.

Plunder.8195:

And many players could also get this achievement.
And you can’t.

Why should their fun and feeling of achievement be compromised because a small group of players can’t finish this achievement.

Ok I’ve stated this a few times, and I’m running out of steam… it’s really not my role in life to enforce reading comprehension.

If you enjoyed the clock tower, then your success is not compromised if there is an achievement or not.

I never said “make the tower easier”, “kill the tower”, etc. I never said “nobody can finish the tower”.

What I said is some players will have difficulty with this puzzle because of factors outside the player’s control (specifically latency). This is an MMO with all the server/client mechanics that go with an MMO.

If the playing field was completely level, then I would not have any issue with this achievement — but it’s not. This is a game, not real life. It can be designed and redesigned. IMO, this achievement was a poor choice.

ding Achievement for reaching level 5*
ding Achievement for getting X gold*
ding Achievement for killing 20 snakes*
ding Achievement for falling to your death*
ding Achievement for eating X Y times*

*Actual examples from other games and GW2

Achievements like that make me hate the whole concept of “achievements”.

Now, someone with the Clock Tower Achievement, I can admire. Because I have not been able to complete it myself (yet).

Achievements should, in my opinion, NOT be easy stuff that every braindead monkey can get if only they spend enough time. They should actually MEAN something.

No offense but I did it in 1 hour the first time. It’s not that hard if you time tour jumps so keep trying

Tosha Daydreamer.9251:

ding Achievement for reaching level 5*
ding Achievement for getting X gold*
ding Achievement for killing 20 snakes*
ding Achievement for falling to your death*
ding Achievement for eating X Y times*

*Actual examples from other games and GW2

Achievements like that make me hate the whole concept of “achievements”.

Now, someone with the Clock Tower Achievement, I can admire. Because I have not been able to complete it myself (yet).

Achievements should, in my opinion, NOT be easy stuff that every braindead monkey can get if only they spend enough time. They should actually MEAN something.

Completely agree — I didn’t say otherwise.

MMOs historically have issues with twitchy game mechanics — this is due to the client/server interaction which is designed to prevent exploits (among other things). You cannot have the client making important decisions (like your position in the world). The server owns that information. Rubber-banding is what you see when the latency gets too great for the filtering and client predictive logic to accomodate.

I think it’s great that GW2 is pushing bounds and putting jumping puzzles into their games. This specific puzzle is very twitchy and will not be achievable by some players due to their latency. That alone is a reason why it should not be an achievement. It should be in the game purely for fun.

way to make this 100% easier.

Your character = normal size.

Everyone else = miniature versions of their characters.

You spent four hours trying to do something you obviously weren’t having fun with.

Why would you do that?

Serbaayuu.3051:

You spent four hours trying to do something you obviously weren’t having fun with.

Why would you do that?

because we don’t know what the prize is for completing the holiday achievement.

sushihead.9360:

Serbaayuu.3051:

You spent four hours trying to do something you obviously weren’t having fun with.

Why would you do that?

because we don’t know what the prize is for completing the holiday achievement.

You could have asked someone who has done it, or did some research. The Clock Tower achievement doesn’t count toward Emissary, and doesn’t get you any extra rewards.

Even so… if you’re not having fun, why continue?

Latency is not a problem because the movement is more client sided than anything else, stop making excuses. (i live in a third world country with terrible internet and had no problems)

The clock tower requires patience, once you stop raging and get yourself calm you can do it, i just kept trying without losing my temper and only needed a hour to learn it, now i can finish it once every 3 tries.

If you can’t do it, sorry, you do not deserve the achievement.

Serbaayuu.3051:

sushihead.9360:

Serbaayuu.3051:

You spent four hours trying to do something you obviously weren’t having fun with.

Why would you do that?

because we don’t know what the prize is for completing the holiday achievement.

You could have asked someone who has done it, or did some research. The Clock Tower achievement doesn’t count toward Emissary, and doesn’t get you any extra rewards.

Even so… if you’re not having fun, why continue?

oh hell no, I just recalled out and will never bother with it.

Serbaayuu.3051:

You spent four hours trying to do something you obviously weren’t having fun with.

Why would you do that?

One reason: I wanted the achievement

It grinds on me that I have an achievement that I cannot complete. I wanted to stop after two hours, but those 10 points on my Hero panel eat at me, so I put in two more hours.

I started to notice that my jumps were not behaving consistantly. I’m not perfect and each run is not identical. However, I started to see that my character wasn’t always lining up with my actual position in game. At that point I lost it — it’s hard enough of a puzzle not to have the additional challenge of latency screwing me.

Was I frustrated? You bet — to the point where it put me in a bad mood outside the game. That’s when it’s time to move on. A game is no longer a game when that happens. I took a break and then came back to do something else which was fun.

juno”

It grinds on me that I have an achievement that I cannot complete. I wanted to stop after two hours, but those 10 points on my Hero panel eat at me, so I put in two more hours.

This is how game addiction works. People don’t do it because it’s fun; they do it because they feel mysteriously compelled.

I’ve found that lag did throw me off a couple of times while completing this puzzle. I beat it much faster than most I’ve talked to, but still didn’t very much enjoy it as a whole due to it being just as described above: twitchy and not a good match for GW2’s mechanics.

I’m all for making games more achievement and skill based, but for end game content that is already meant to be exclusive to some degree. A Halloween event does not strike me as something that should have a puzzle which is for many a great exercise in frustration. It just seemed a bit overboard to me. Expecting 5% isn’t very in the spirit of an inclusive holiday, I don’t think.

I wasted 7 hours in order to get my job done. Now, I am almost ’’grinding’’ that place. 2 out o’ 3 attempts are a success.

Don’t give up I’d say!

Never give up more likely!

Good luck!

sushihead.9360:

Serbaayuu.3051:

You spent four hours trying to do something you obviously weren’t having fun with.

Why would you do that?

because we don’t know what the prize is for completing the holiday achievement.

You don’t need it for the holiday achievement.

Honestly, before completing it, I was one of those that ranting and raving (“OMG, Why can’t it be instanced!/NOOO, a charr!/That beam is impossible to jump to!/Just hurry up and fall so I can try again!”), but I kept at it (despite being absolutely the worst ever at jumping puzzles). I almost filed for divorce because my husband managed to do it like 3 times before I ever completed it once, but after probably somewhere around…12 hours of trying, I did it.

It’s hard, it is supposed to be hard, nigh unto impossible. But you don’t NEED to do it. If it isn’t fun for you, just don’t do it, do something else. Anet isn’t torturing you, you are torturing yourself. It’s 10 points, one achievement, some boots that are easily replaced.

Well from were are you playing?

Cause i got a latency of around 200+ and a fps of 20.

And i now can do the tower with around 95% of success each run … hell i even forgot my streak after a while… 24 completions atm.

So it is possible , unless you have a latency much over 220 +- , which then would make the whole game really really bad for you. Oh and yeah , i also deal with fps drop during the run.

juno.1840:

Serbaayuu.3051:

You spent four hours trying to do something you obviously weren’t having fun with.

Why would you do that?

One reason: I wanted the achievement

It grinds on me that I have an achievement that I cannot complete. I wanted to stop after two hours, but those 10 points on my Hero panel eat at me, so I put in two more hours.

I started to notice that my jumps were not behaving consistantly. I’m not perfect and each run is not identical. However, I started to see that my character wasn’t always lining up with my actual position in game. At that point I lost it — it’s hard enough of a puzzle not to have the additional challenge of latency screwing me.

Was I frustrated? You bet — to the point where it put me in a bad mood outside the game. That’s when it’s time to move on. A game is no longer a game when that happens. I took a break and then came back to do something else which was fun.

So what if you WANTED it? You have to earn it. It doesn’t matter to me or the game how much you want it. You don’t deserve it until you can win.

I think it took me around 3 hours to do it.

At first I was totally frustrated and PO’d. But then I started to remember what was coming ahead of me. Once I started remembering the pattern i started getting farther and farther until I ended getting all the way to the top and completing it.

At times I just logged off and took a break then came back to it determined. Keep at it!

Sorry OP but I can’t take this thread seriously. All it looks like is that you can’t do the puzzle and are therefore coming onto the forums to complain in the hopes ANet makes it easymode for you. The puzzle is hard, it’s one of the achievements in this game which actually does feel like an achievement when you obtain it.

I sat on that kitten thing for 2 hours and stubbornly repeated it over and over and over again until I finally managed to complete it. If you don’t have the skill or stubbornness to complete it and obtain the achievement then why should you have it?

I really like some of the sPvP titles, but I don’t want to do a ton of SPvP to get them. Don’t see me whining about how I can’t get that awesome title without gaining the skill and putting in the time required for them.

Just keep at it, you’ll eventually get it. Even if you have to repeat it so much that you know every little nook and cranny of it.

Serbaayuu.3051:

So what if you WANTED it? You have to earn it. It doesn’t matter to me or the game how much you want it. You don’t deserve it until you can win.

I agree with your statement, but throughout this post I talk about how MMOs do not support twitchy mechanics well — especially those dealing with player position in the world.

This puzzle is not achievable for some players based upon factors outside their control. With that in mind the event should not be an achievement – OR – the event should have been designed differently to begin with.

Example: If the clock tower was a stand-alone instance that ran completly on your PC without server side position calcualtions… wouldn’t that be sweet. Essentially a GW2 mini-game hosted by your client, and not the server.

Now latency and the internet are out of the picture. It’s just you and the puzzle. That would be bliss…

juno.1840:

Serbaayuu.3051:

So what if you WANTED it? You have to earn it. It doesn’t matter to me or the game how much you want it. You don’t deserve it until you can win.

I agree with your statement, but throughout this post I talk about how MMOs do not support twitchy mechanics well — especially those dealing with player position in the world.

This puzzle is not achievable for some players based upon factors outside their control. With that in mind the event should not be an achievement – OR – the event should have been designed differently to begin with.

Example: If the clock tower was a stand-alone instance that ran completly on your PC without server side position calcualtions… wouldn’t that be sweet. Essentially a GW2 mini-game hosted by your client, and not the server.

Now latency and the internet are out of the picture. It’s just you and the puzzle. That would be bliss…

Online games don’t do that sort of thing because it’s easier to cheat with hacks if there’s no server communication.

There is no way Anet can safely make content that caters to every single person who wants to play in every part of the world. It’s just impossible. So your solution is because maybe 1% of the players are in this situation the rest shouldn’t be able to have a go at it? That’s basically what you’re saying.

fellyn.5083:

There is no way Anet can safely make content that caters to every single person who wants to play in every part of the world. It’s just impossible. So your solution is because maybe 1% of the players are in this situation the rest shouldn’t be able to have a go at it is basically what you’re saying.

I would love for ANet to show us what percent of players actually completed this at least once. Somehow I bet it’s more than 1%.

Kana.6793:

juno.1840:

Serbaayuu.3051:

So what if you WANTED it? You have to earn it. It doesn’t matter to me or the game how much you want it. You don’t deserve it until you can win.

I agree with your statement, but throughout this post I talk about how MMOs do not support twitchy mechanics well — especially those dealing with player position in the world.

This puzzle is not achievable for some players based upon factors outside their control. With that in mind the event should not be an achievement – OR – the event should have been designed differently to begin with.

Example: If the clock tower was a stand-alone instance that ran completly on your PC without server side position calcualtions… wouldn’t that be sweet. Essentially a GW2 mini-game hosted by your client, and not the server.

Now latency and the internet are out of the picture. It’s just you and the puzzle. That would be bliss…

Online games don’t do that sort of thing because it’s easier to cheat with hacks if there’s no server communication.

Agreed – hence my statements about server/client and latency effect this puzzle.

Maybe there could be a different mechanism in this scenario to prevent cheating. If not, then consider that the effects of cheating in this example would be fairly minimal to the game itself (especially if the rewards were soulbound and not salvagable).