Guild Wars 2

The information will come. This thread isn’t going to rush the information. If you don’t care about the betas then there’s zero reason to prepurchase and worry about it. But getting information sooner than Anet is ready to release it isn’t going to happen.

There are people who feel even what we know about the expansion makes the expansion worth it. All the regulars in my guild have prepurchased it already. And if you’re not sure, don’t. Wait until you know more.

I’m not sure why this discussion has gone on for as long as it has.

Vayne.8563:

The information will come. This thread isn’t going to rush the information. If you don’t care about the betas then there’s zero reason to prepurchase and worry about it. But getting information sooner than Anet is ready to release it isn’t going to happen.

There are people who feel even what we know about the expansion makes the expansion worth it. All the regulars in my guild have prepurchased it already. And if you’re not sure, don’t. Wait until you know more.

I’m not sure why this discussion has gone on for as long as it has.

Pretty much this.

Players have the right to decide that they need more information about HOT’s content before buying and Anet has the right to draw out the reveal process as long as they want.

Ashen.2907:

Players have the right to decide that they need more information about HOT’s content before buying and Anet has the right to draw out the reveal process as long as they want.

This is what baffles me, I cannot believe more people won’t wait. Unfortunately those who promote the pre-order culture will bring us all down with it eventually. How long before more of the game is locked away without a pre-order etc? Haven’t we seen enough of this kind of behaviour in the industry or is it only bad when companies like EA do it?

WSG Delen.9203:

BilboBaggins.5620:

Miriam.2506:

Seeing the little progress made from first closed beta to this beta is very bad. It just seems nothing is done and things that got finished worked several times, with developers needed at other places.

What I see and played didn’t changed anything inside my mind to still say it’s still not worth money at all and things people wanted to come back still ignored. Sure BETA development, but the core game shouldn’t be dead by this years they take.

Compare with a car factory. Developing a new models of cars, all production of old cars is stopped because we need all for the new. Selling none of the old as long as the new ready will force the factory to close. Because people want to buy even if older instead of waiting for a ghost inside a long dark future, nobody knows if it ever happens.

People really need to read this and think hard about this. They’ve had nearly THREE YEARS and the beta seems anemic and rushed! They can keep the paltry extra character slot, the only way I’ll even consider HoT is at a severe discount.

Without knowing the details of manpower and the code the amount of time a developer spends developing something is irrelevant. There are no hard rules over how long software takes to develop.

Software, technology, is NOT an excuse for the lack of content. Sure the artists have no new cool tools to try new cool stuff, but nothing and absolutely NOTHING stops them from furthering the lore and creating more content.

Vayne.8563:

The information will come. This thread isn’t going to rush the information. If you don’t care about the betas then there’s zero reason to prepurchase and worry about it. But getting information sooner than Anet is ready to release it isn’t going to happen.

There are people who feel even what we know about the expansion makes the expansion worth it. All the regulars in my guild have prepurchased it already. And if you’re not sure, don’t. Wait until you know more.

I’m not sure why this discussion has gone on for as long as it has.

Hello Mr. ANET White Knight,

Unfortunately, it is completely unethical to put something up for sale without a full description of the item being sold (yes, that applies to digital content too) Yes, when you sell something, even under the pre-order model, people need to know what is being sold (and to the people who compare them to EA, they are wrong, EA looks like an angel next to them, because you at least know what they will deliver in the DLC)

On one end you are right, it is really up to us, the consumers to not buy into this, which is why I’m also of the opinion the OP, as myself, should wait and see until launch or until more information is given. I don’t get why people are so compelled to pre-order something that does not seem interesting enough to them at the point in time.

That said, on a more legal term, I can’t speak for your country, but in Canada, ANET could face their product (HoT) forced out if enough people complain to consumer protection, because there is not one consumer out there that knows what they are paying the 50$ for HoT, since the product was never fully defined. (until they provide the minimal information that defines their product)

I personally won’t waste my time to do so because I don’t care enough and just won’t purchase HoT until it’s either on sale or that they show me it’s worth the 50$ (and before anyone argues the value of 50$, let’s stick to comparing apples with apples, in such to other MMOs and not restaurant outings or other things)

I did give anet the benefit of the doubt during the first year and had high hopes for them. Bungie traveled a very similar road as ANET with the launch of Destiny, but they reacted much better to user comments and improving the game, they managed to impress me enough to purchase their expansion in a 1h live-stream packed with information. And I’m not saying this to tick off devs or convince people to try another game, but simply in the hope ANET looks at how they handled things differently and learn from it. (but last time I said something like that i got censored… guess that was kind of an answer..)

sincerely,

A long time fan of ANET that is currently kittened of at the state of things.

NB: When everyone was crying for an expansion, I really doubt they meant for ANET to completely stop doing everything else, but instead hoped that the mediocre stuff being delivered was due to other cool content being developed behind the scenes, and this is what hyped everyone when we heard the news, unfortunately, we’ve seen nothing new for almost a year with the world of Tyria standing still. (Not even something as simple as the next world of super adventure box that would’ve kept so many players happy during this drought of content)

PS: “The information will come. This thread isn’t going to rush the information.” – In that sense, you are completely right, this thread will absolutely not change a single thing. And there are clearly not enough ticked off people complaining on the forums (or is it being moderated?) to make anet change how they give us info about the expansion.

It’s not like I don’t get why people would just buy this x-pac sight unseen. I preordered GW2 sight unseen. I followed every bit of info. I posted for years about it on Curse’s site.

The base game of GW2 is the best MMO I’ve ever played. Period. Unfortunately, it is my opinion that the seasons were lackluster and spotty. They had bright spots, but weren’t of the quality I came to expect from ArenaNet. The lack of permanent content didn’t help. The Marionette fight? Temporary. Battle for LA? Temporary. Aetherblade map events? Same. So much great content is just gone. Instead of the game growing, it just got really fun temporary content that I’ll never get to play again.

I don’t think it’s wrong of me to have the assumption that this expansion seems small in terms of geography. When I jumped on the x-pac bandwagon it was to get an expansion pack that was well, expansive. I wanted jungle, desert, tundra, chaparral. I wanted variety.

This thread wasn’t created for the people that already bought the x-pac sight unseen. This was to create a voice for the people that think we may be getting tricked into buying something that isn’t what the devs are saying it is. They are saying it’s an expansion pack when really it feels like paying for a frontloaded seasonal content pack that isn’t finished yet. The devs are the ones that have to think, “Are we being as forthright and honest about what we’re selling as we could be?” Well are you?

LostBalloon.6423:

Vayne.8563:

The information will come. This thread isn’t going to rush the information. If you don’t care about the betas then there’s zero reason to prepurchase and worry about it. But getting information sooner than Anet is ready to release it isn’t going to happen.

There are people who feel even what we know about the expansion makes the expansion worth it. All the regulars in my guild have prepurchased it already. And if you’re not sure, don’t. Wait until you know more.

I’m not sure why this discussion has gone on for as long as it has.

Hello Mr. ANET White Knight,

Unfortunately, it is completely unethical to put something up for sale without a full description of the item being sold (yes, that applies to digital content too) Yes, when you sell something, even under the pre-order model, people need to know what is being sold (and to the people who compare them to EA, they are wrong, EA looks like an angel next to them, because you at least know what they will deliver in the DLC)

On one end you are right, it is really up to us, the consumers to not buy into this, which is why I’m also of the opinion the OP, as myself, should wait and see until launch or until more information is given. I don’t get why people are so compelled to pre-order something that does not seem interesting enough to them at the point in time.

That said, on a more legal term, I can’t speak for your country, but in Canada, ANET could face their product (HoT) forced out if enough people complain to consumer protection, because there is not one consumer out there that knows what they are paying the 50$ for HoT, since the product was never fully defined. (until they provide the minimal information that defines their product)

I personally won’t waste my time to do so because I don’t care enough and just won’t purchase HoT until it’s either on sale or that they show me it’s worth the 50$ (and before anyone argues the value of 50$, let’s stick to comparing apples with apples, in such to other MMOs and not restaurant outings or other things)

I did give anet the benefit of the doubt during the first year and had high hopes for them. Bungie traveled a very similar road as ANET with the launch of Destiny, but they reacted much better to user comments and improving the game, they managed to impress me enough to purchase their expansion in a 1h live-stream packed with information. And I’m not saying this to tick off devs or convince people to try another game, but simply in the hope ANET looks at how they handled things differently and learn from it. (but last time I said something like that i got censored… guess that was kind of an answer..)

sincerely,

A long time fan of ANET that is currently kittened of at the state of things.

NB: When everyone was crying for an expansion, I really doubt they meant for ANET to completely stop doing everything else, but instead hoped that the mediocre stuff being delivered was due to other cool content being developed behind the scenes, and this is what hyped everyone when we heard the news, unfortunately, we’ve seen nothing new for almost a year with the world of Tyria standing still. (Not even something as simple as the next world of super adventure box that would’ve kept so many players happy during this drought of content)

PS: “The information will come. This thread isn’t going to rush the information.” – In that sense, you are completely right, this thread will absolutely not change a single thing. And there are clearly not enough ticked off people complaining on the forums (or is it being moderated?) to make anet change how they give us info about the expansion.

I’m sorry but what, exactly is unethical about it? Besides you saying so, I mean.

There’s nothing forcing you to buy it, but then, I’ve never ever bought an MMO or even any type of game where I’ve known everything about it before I bought.

I go to movies too. Do you know everything about a movie before you pay to go see it? Do you know the twist ending? That would ruin the movie for a whole lot of people.

When I buy books I don’t know how the books will go. I don’t even really know if I’m going to enjoy them. I get a back cover blurb, maybe some reviews and it helps if I know the author, but there are no guarantees.

You calling something unethical doesn’t make it so. Particularly because the game is still months away and there’s still time to order it, even up to the last minute. No one has to do anything. The game isn’t out. Saying it’s unethical to offer advanced purchase on something with no real obligation to buy it if you want it later is just silly.

Oh and calling me a white knight to try to discredit me doesn’t make me wrong.

Ayrilana.1396:

usernameisapain.7163:

Ayrilana.1396:

usernameisapain.7163:

Ayrilana.1396:

Teniz.5249:

Vayne.8563:

Teniz.5249:

Guild Wars Factions

Hundreds of new creatures, guild halls, skills and more
Two new professions: the deadly Assassin and the necromantic Ritualist
A whole new continent, Cantha, either connects to the lands of Tyria or stands on its own
Guilds band together into alliances to gain control of towns and access exclusive Alliance Missions
New game types include missions with ranked scoring and large-scale Alliance vs. Alliance battles

What do we get

8? new zones
1 new pvp mode
1 new class
elite specialization with weapons nobody want to use

worth!

Guild Wars Factions was a standalone game, not an expansion. Eye of the North would have been a better comparison.

eotn

Tons of new content designed exclusively for your existing Guild Wars characters.
18 huge, multi-level dungeons to explore. Monuments of your Guild Wars achievements that give access to special items and titles in Guild Wars 2.
150 new skills (50 of which are special, roleplaying-only skills) to use against your foes. 10 new Heroes to help you in your adventures.
40 new armor sets suitable for the great heroes of the land. A first look at three of the exciting new playable races in Guild Wars 2.
Numerous new items, weapons, and titles to attain.

worth!

If EotN had 18 dungeons then GW2 has 33 dungeons with possibly another 11. Also ignoring that they’re two entirely different games. It seems people are more concerned about quantity than quality.

GW2, a full game for twice the price. Of course it should have more ~~

Nope. You’re making the mistake of trying to compare the price of one thing in relation to its content to another. I bought Fallout 3 and GW2 both for $60. GW2 obviously had much more content. By your rationale I was ripped off when I bought Fallout 3 since GW2 is the measure of what an acceptable amount of content is worth at $60. You decide a content’s worth based in the value you get from it and whether said value is worth the cost to you.

Hahaha, no no not at all, you’re clearly both misunderstanding me, and not reading my posts properly.

Fallout 3 full game 60, GW2 full game 60, EoTN 35 expansion, HoT 50 expansion.
I’m talking about full games compared to expansions, and that games from the same developer, can be compared to some extent despite those differences. You’re drawing assumptions friend =)

You’re not understanding the part where I said comparing content to other content distorts the results. You look at the content contained in HoT and decide whether the value of what’s there is worth the price. What MMO X, Y, or Z had doesn’t matter. What expansion X, Y, or Z had doesn’t matter. What game X, Y, or Z had doesn’t matter.

It always matters ~~ if there wasn’t competition with games the prices would be like 500 dollars for any given game. It’s not just (can the consumer afford it) that decides the price. They also compare the prices to other games. And of course what games the same publisher made previously for given prices matters. It’s a matter of brand and consumer trust. It’s completely normal that people compare to know if they are getting tricked or if they can get it cheaper elsewhere. Airplanes are rated, airports are rated, racehorses have ratings, going into 2 supermarkets to know who sells the milk the cheapest is normal. To say that whatever content other games(especially those from the same company) doesn’t matter… That doesn’t make sense, so you want to buy milk for 10$ instead of 1$, because you don’t believe in comparing the quality to the price?

And it is you who keeps comparing the games, I commented on someone else comparing games, then you nitpicked it.

Either way, anyone who blindly defends, and dismiss all arguments consistently, well I know that’s an endless discussion. So I’ll leave on that note

Iason Evan.3806:

It’s not like I don’t get why people would just buy this x-pac sight unseen. I preordered GW2 sight unseen. I followed every bit of info. I posted for years about it on Curse’s site.

The base game of GW2 is the best MMO I’ve ever played. Period. Unfortunately, it is my opinion that the seasons were lackluster and spotty. They had bright spots, but weren’t of the quality I came to expect from ArenaNet. The lack of permanent content didn’t help. The Marionette fight? Temporary. Battle for LA? Temporary. Aetherblade map events? Same. So much great content is just gone. Instead of the game growing, it just got really fun temporary content that I’ll never get to play again.

I don’t think it’s wrong of me to have the assumption that this expansion seems small in terms of geography. When I jumped on the x-pac bandwagon it was to get an expansion pack that was well, expansive. I wanted jungle, desert, tundra, chaparral. I wanted variety.

This thread wasn’t created for the people that already bought the x-pac sight unseen. This was to create a voice for the people that think we may be getting tricked into buying something that isn’t what the devs are saying it is. They are saying it’s an expansion pack when really it feels like paying for a frontloaded seasonal content pack that isn’t finished yet. The devs are the ones that have to think, “Are we being as forthright and honest about what we’re selling as we could be?” Well are you?

Tricked into the buying something that isn’t what the devs are saying it is? This undermines your whole argument. Before that comment I thought you had a legit point. But your original point was they’re not really telling us what it is. So if they’re not telling us what it is, how can people be tricked into buying something they’re saying it is…by your own admission they’re not saying enough.

The fact is, a lot of people are not prepurchasing because there’s not enough information. I did prepurchase because Guild Wars 2 is the best MMO I’ve played for my play style and whatever else is added to it expands the Guild Wars 2 experience for me. If I get 50 hours of play out of kitten expansion, that’s a dollar an hour and less than I spend for most games I’ve bought. I’d be satisfied with that, though I’m relatively sure I’ll get a lot more than 50 hours out of it.

I don’t spend $50 on a game and expect to get thousands of hours out of it no matter what. This is a continuation of the story and lore and experience of a game that I happen to enjoy. I’ve spent more money on less in the past and not regretted that, I seriously doubt I’m going to regret this.

The only problem here is one of self control. For some reason, people feel like they have to play the beta. That’s the only really benefit for ordering now. And if people feel playing the beta is worth it, then people will pay $50 for it, which is a choice each person has to make.

People waste money on crap all the time. They spend money on cigarettes that kill them, gambling that bankrupts them, alcohol that eats away at their liver. They spend money on trips that turn out to be not worth it, because the weather was bad. They buy tickets to shows that cost hundreds of dollars for a couple of hours, just to see a band play songs they already know. They eat at expensive restaurants and get too little food, which they’re not even sure they’re going to enjoy.

At the end of the day $50 for a new game is something each person has to make. But no one is being tricked into anything, because Anet hasn’t really said that much. They told us everything that will be in it and after that, people have to decide if the value is there for them. That decision was easy for me, but I don’t expect everyone to make the same decision as I did.

And some people will get more info and they’ll decide then. We have an announcement about hard content. We have no idea what it is, but some people will see that announcement and decide they have to get the expansion at that point. And they will. Some may decide after that announcement it’s still not worth it.

I’m still not sure what the big deal is.

usernameisapain.7163:

It always matters ~~ if there wasn’t competition with games the prices would be like 500 dollars for any given game. It’s not just (can the consumer afford it) that decides the price. They also compare the prices to other games. And of course what games the same publisher made previously for given prices matters. It’s a matter of brand and consumer trust. It’s completely normal that people compare to know if they are getting tricked or if they can get it cheaper elsewhere. Airplanes are rated, airports are rated, racehorses have ratings, going into 2 supermarkets to know who sells the milk the cheapest is normal. To say that whatever content other games(especially those from the same company) doesn’t matter… That doesn’t make sense, so you want to buy milk for 10$ instead of 1$, because you don’t believe in comparing the quality to the price?

Um… we’re talking about content in relation to price. Nothing you just said had anything to do with that.

Do you really think the amount content that you get when buying both Mortal Kombat X and Skyrim on the console is the same? How about Skyrim versus any of the Final Fantasy console games? How about Guild Wars Prophecies to Diablo III. How about GW2 compared to the WoW?

Expansions. With how much people spent on any of the WoW expansions, did the additional content they receive fall in line with the ratio of content and price they received from the core game? To clarify, If they paid $60 for the original game, and purchased an expansion for $30, did they receive 50% of the content of the original with the expansion?

Guild Wars EotN expansion sold for $40 when it was released. I believe that I had paid $60 for Prophecies. Since $40/$60 is two thirds, did you receive two thirds of the content of Prophecies when you purchased EotN? Prophecies had 58 explorable areas while EotN had 25. That’s only 43% right there so it’s a fail but people still praise it. You can go on and on with comparing the skills and anything else. The point being that you never get as much content from expansions as the core games in regards to their content-to-price ratios.

All you can really judge reliably is the content with whatever you’re thinking about purchasing and whether that content’s value to you is worth the cost. If it’s not then you simply do not buy it.

usernameisapain.7163:

And it is you who keeps comparing the games, I commented on someone else comparing games, then you nitpicked it.

I’m not comparing games. The fact that you think that I do shows you either didn’t read everything that I had said and/or you didn’t understand it. What I had provided were examples to show the flaws in comparing games in regard to the relationship between content and price.

Vayne.8563:

Iason Evan.3806:

It’s not like I don’t get why people would just buy this x-pac sight unseen. I preordered GW2 sight unseen. I followed every bit of info. I posted for years about it on Curse’s site.

The base game of GW2 is the best MMO I’ve ever played. Period. Unfortunately, it is my opinion that the seasons were lackluster and spotty. They had bright spots, but weren’t of the quality I came to expect from ArenaNet. The lack of permanent content didn’t help. The Marionette fight? Temporary. Battle for LA? Temporary. Aetherblade map events? Same. So much great content is just gone. Instead of the game growing, it just got really fun temporary content that I’ll never get to play again.

I don’t think it’s wrong of me to have the assumption that this expansion seems small in terms of geography. When I jumped on the x-pac bandwagon it was to get an expansion pack that was well, expansive. I wanted jungle, desert, tundra, chaparral. I wanted variety.

This thread wasn’t created for the people that already bought the x-pac sight unseen. This was to create a voice for the people that think we may be getting tricked into buying something that isn’t what the devs are saying it is. They are saying it’s an expansion pack when really it feels like paying for a frontloaded seasonal content pack that isn’t finished yet. The devs are the ones that have to think, “Are we being as forthright and honest about what we’re selling as we could be?” Well are you?

Tricked into the buying something that isn’t what the devs are saying it is? This undermines your whole argument. Before that comment I thought you had a legit point. But your original point was they’re not really telling us what it is. So if they’re not telling us what it is, how can people be tricked into buying something they’re saying it is…by your own admission they’re not saying enough.

The fact is, a lot of people are not prepurchasing because there’s not enough information. I did prepurchase because Guild Wars 2 is the best MMO I’ve played for my play style and whatever else is added to it expands the Guild Wars 2 experience for me. If I get 50 hours of play out of kitten expansion, that’s a dollar an hour and less than I spend for most games I’ve bought. I’d be satisfied with that, though I’m relatively sure I’ll get a lot more than 50 hours out of it.

I don’t spend $50 on a game and expect to get thousands of hours out of it no matter what. This is a continuation of the story and lore and experience of a game that I happen to enjoy. I’ve spent more money on less in the past and not regretted that, I seriously doubt I’m going to regret this.

The only problem here is one of self control. For some reason, people feel like they have to play the beta. That’s the only really benefit for ordering now. And if people feel playing the beta is worth it, then people will pay $50 for it, which is a choice each person has to make.

People waste money on crap all the time. They spend money on cigarettes that kill them, gambling that bankrupts them, alcohol that eats away at their liver. They spend money on trips that turn out to be not worth it, because the weather was bad. They buy tickets to shows that cost hundreds of dollars for a couple of hours, just to see a band play songs they already know. They eat at expensive restaurants and get too little food, which they’re not even sure they’re going to enjoy.

At the end of the day $50 for a new game is something each person has to make. But no one is being tricked into anything, because Anet hasn’t really said that much. They told us everything that will be in it and after that, people have to decide if the value is there for them. That decision was easy for me, but I don’t expect everyone to make the same decision as I did.

And some people will get more info and they’ll decide then. We have an announcement about hard content. We have no idea what it is, but some people will see that announcement and decide they have to get the expansion at that point. And they will. Some may decide after that announcement it’s still not worth it.

I’m still not sure what the big deal is.

I didn’t buy the expansion, Vayne. Have not purchased HoT. I am saying their marketing is misleading. Totally separate point from my OP.

Iason Evan.3806:

Vayne.8563:

Iason Evan.3806:

It’s not like I don’t get why people would just buy this x-pac sight unseen. I preordered GW2 sight unseen. I followed every bit of info. I posted for years about it on Curse’s site.

The base game of GW2 is the best MMO I’ve ever played. Period. Unfortunately, it is my opinion that the seasons were lackluster and spotty. They had bright spots, but weren’t of the quality I came to expect from ArenaNet. The lack of permanent content didn’t help. The Marionette fight? Temporary. Battle for LA? Temporary. Aetherblade map events? Same. So much great content is just gone. Instead of the game growing, it just got really fun temporary content that I’ll never get to play again.

I don’t think it’s wrong of me to have the assumption that this expansion seems small in terms of geography. When I jumped on the x-pac bandwagon it was to get an expansion pack that was well, expansive. I wanted jungle, desert, tundra, chaparral. I wanted variety.

This thread wasn’t created for the people that already bought the x-pac sight unseen. This was to create a voice for the people that think we may be getting tricked into buying something that isn’t what the devs are saying it is. They are saying it’s an expansion pack when really it feels like paying for a frontloaded seasonal content pack that isn’t finished yet. The devs are the ones that have to think, “Are we being as forthright and honest about what we’re selling as we could be?” Well are you?

Tricked into the buying something that isn’t what the devs are saying it is? This undermines your whole argument. Before that comment I thought you had a legit point. But your original point was they’re not really telling us what it is. So if they’re not telling us what it is, how can people be tricked into buying something they’re saying it is…by your own admission they’re not saying enough.

The fact is, a lot of people are not prepurchasing because there’s not enough information. I did prepurchase because Guild Wars 2 is the best MMO I’ve played for my play style and whatever else is added to it expands the Guild Wars 2 experience for me. If I get 50 hours of play out of kitten expansion, that’s a dollar an hour and less than I spend for most games I’ve bought. I’d be satisfied with that, though I’m relatively sure I’ll get a lot more than 50 hours out of it.

I don’t spend $50 on a game and expect to get thousands of hours out of it no matter what. This is a continuation of the story and lore and experience of a game that I happen to enjoy. I’ve spent more money on less in the past and not regretted that, I seriously doubt I’m going to regret this.

The only problem here is one of self control. For some reason, people feel like they have to play the beta. That’s the only really benefit for ordering now. And if people feel playing the beta is worth it, then people will pay $50 for it, which is a choice each person has to make.

People waste money on crap all the time. They spend money on cigarettes that kill them, gambling that bankrupts them, alcohol that eats away at their liver. They spend money on trips that turn out to be not worth it, because the weather was bad. They buy tickets to shows that cost hundreds of dollars for a couple of hours, just to see a band play songs they already know. They eat at expensive restaurants and get too little food, which they’re not even sure they’re going to enjoy.

At the end of the day $50 for a new game is something each person has to make. But no one is being tricked into anything, because Anet hasn’t really said that much. They told us everything that will be in it and after that, people have to decide if the value is there for them. That decision was easy for me, but I don’t expect everyone to make the same decision as I did.

And some people will get more info and they’ll decide then. We have an announcement about hard content. We have no idea what it is, but some people will see that announcement and decide they have to get the expansion at that point. And they will. Some may decide after that announcement it’s still not worth it.

I’m still not sure what the big deal is.

I didn’t buy the expansion, Vayne. Have not purchased HoT. I am saying their marketing is misleading. Totally separate point from my OP.

I’m not sure how the marketing is misleading. Can you give an example?

lady godiva pet.9530:

you all seem to forget yes with each new complete game from guild wars 1 we got 2 new professions. But the original only had 6 professions at the start of prophecies. no specializations nothing special. no special armor other then style, no crafting, etc. Also the day the offered the ability to pre purchase gw2 there was 2 million copies sold. This was before alpha before info etc. this was just people knowing it was coming. No real info. at 60 for the game times 2 million copies in one day thats a crap ton of money with zero information.
Now the people who played gw1 from beta (like me) don’t care about info we know it is coming. Anet has never given much information with factions nightfall or EoTN. we knew basically what we are being told now. anet has never had to release all the minute details to their games to please everyone.
This marketing has worked for them for over 12 years. They still have many people buying the pre-purchase to HoT.

This person gets it, ArenaNet has worked like this since the beginning of the company. They’ve NEVER released all of the information on every one of their products before release, there’s no legal requirement to release all of the information before release or putting it out for sale/ordering, it being unethical is a matter of opinion(regardless of what the laws in Canada say, this is a U.S. based company, and I can guarantee you there have been plenty of products released in Canada that didn’t have all of the information about them given out before that release date, regardless of the product).

You can’t price compare things from today against things from 5 – 10 – 15 years ago, because of inflation, unless you want to factor in the inflation to the price of the object from way back when, only then can you do price comparison.

As for pre-purchasing or pre-ordering, that is really your decision to make, the company can provide you information that will help you make it, or you can use that mass of gray matter in your skull and think for yourself whether it’s worth it or not based on the use/enjoyment you’ve gotten out of the original product.

Also, for the person saying we need to stop this pre-ordering/pre-purchasing because it’s ruining the industry, that’s your opinion and your entitled to it, I however will continue to pre-order/pre-purchase products that interest me based on past performance.

Ayrilana.1396:

usernameisapain.7163:

It always matters ~~ if there wasn’t competition with games the prices would be like 500 dollars for any given game. It’s not just (can the consumer afford it) that decides the price. They also compare the prices to other games. And of course what games the same publisher made previously for given prices matters. It’s a matter of brand and consumer trust. It’s completely normal that people compare to know if they are getting tricked or if they can get it cheaper elsewhere. Airplanes are rated, airports are rated, racehorses have ratings, going into 2 supermarkets to know who sells the milk the cheapest is normal. To say that whatever content other games(especially those from the same company) doesn’t matter… That doesn’t make sense, so you want to buy milk for 10$ instead of 1$, because you don’t believe in comparing the quality to the price?

Um… we’re talking about content in relation to price. Nothing you just said had anything to do with that.

Do you really think the amount content that you get when buying both Mortal Kombat X and Skyrim on the console is the same? How about Skyrim versus any of the Final Fantasy console games? How about Guild Wars Prophecies to Diablo III. How about GW2 compared to the WoW?

Expansions. With how much people spent on any of the WoW expansions, did the additional content they receive fall in line with the ratio of content and price they received from the core game? To clarify, If they paid $60 for the original game, and purchased an expansion for $30, did they receive 50% of the content of the original with the expansion?

Guild Wars EotN expansion sold for $40 when it was released. I believe that I had paid $60 for Prophecies. Since $40/$60 is two thirds, did you receive two thirds of the content of Prophecies when you purchased EotN? Prophecies had 58 explorable areas while EotN had 25. That’s only 43% right there so it’s a fail but people still praise it. You can go on and on with comparing the skills and anything else. The point being that you never get as much content from expansions as the core games in regards to their content-to-price ratios.

All you can really judge reliably is the content with whatever you’re thinking about purchasing and whether that content’s value to you is worth the cost. If it’s not then you simply do not buy it.

usernameisapain.7163:

And it is you who keeps comparing the games, I commented on someone else comparing games, then you nitpicked it.

I’m not comparing games. The fact that you think that I do shows you either didn’t read everything that I had said and/or you didn’t understand it. What I had provided were examples to show the flaws in comparing games in regard to the relationship between content and price.

The first thing you did was compare fallout and gw2 ~~ Even if you to some extent did so to show that it cannot be compared, you still did so. I understand what you’re saying, however you still compared a game regardless of the intention of doing so.

Furthermore, the standard idea of price to content is a notion that has arrived after a multitude of games and expansions over the years have been released for a set price. Had the standard price for new games been 10$ and HoT been selling for 50$ I highly doubt that you would think it was a fair price. My point is that it is closely related, now that you don’t agree with that, is ok. However I really don’t think you would buy HoT right away if it was 5 times the price of the original game if GW2 had been 10$ and all other subsequent and previous games since 1995 had been between 5-10$.

Either way, this is going nowhere, if I have the willpower I’m done in this thread =)

Zaklex.6308:

Also, for the person saying we need to stop this pre-ordering/pre-purchasing because it’s ruining the industry, that’s your opinion and your entitled to it, I however will continue to pre-order/pre-purchase products that interest me based on past performance.

However you like to justify your purchase is your own choosing. We’ve seen the pre-order culture evolve, we can see where it’s been and where it leads. We complain about more and more things being held behind paywalls and pieces cut out and resold to us, we also complain about subpar products. People that buy into this have no one to blame but themselves and no right to complain about said product. You’re selling your power as a consumer and the attitude of “it’s ok when [they] do it” will only hasten this.

Zaklex.6308:

lady godiva pet.9530:

you all seem to forget yes with each new complete game from guild wars 1 we got 2 new professions. But the original only had 6 professions at the start of prophecies. no specializations nothing special. no special armor other then style, no crafting, etc. Also the day the offered the ability to pre purchase gw2 there was 2 million copies sold. This was before alpha before info etc. this was just people knowing it was coming. No real info. at 60 for the game times 2 million copies in one day thats a crap ton of money with zero information.
Now the people who played gw1 from beta (like me) don’t care about info we know it is coming. Anet has never given much information with factions nightfall or EoTN. we knew basically what we are being told now. anet has never had to release all the minute details to their games to please everyone.
This marketing has worked for them for over 12 years. They still have many people buying the pre-purchase to HoT.

This person gets it, ArenaNet has worked like this since the beginning of the company. They’ve NEVER released all of the information on every one of their products before release, there’s no legal requirement to release all of the information before release or putting it out for sale/ordering, it being unethical is a matter of opinion(regardless of what the laws in Canada say, this is a U.S. based company, and I can guarantee you there have been plenty of products released in Canada that didn’t have all of the information about them given out before that release date, regardless of the product).

You can’t price compare things from today against things from 5 – 10 – 15 years ago, because of inflation, unless you want to factor in the inflation to the price of the object from way back when, only then can you do price comparison.

As for pre-purchasing or pre-ordering, that is really your decision to make, the company can provide you information that will help you make it, or you can use that mass of gray matter in your skull and think for yourself whether it’s worth it or not based on the use/enjoyment you’ve gotten out of the original product.

Also, for the person saying we need to stop this pre-ordering/pre-purchasing because it’s ruining the industry, that’s your opinion and your entitled to it, I however will continue to pre-order/pre-purchase products that interest me based on past performance.

Guild Wars 2 was available for prepurchase in 2012. The game was announced in 2007. The first trailer was in 2009, and we knew plenty about the game when pre-purchase happened. Plenty we also didn’t know. Either way, Alpha was already done by 2012, and the beta’s were pretty much the finished product, of course there were also changes, like the potions >< luckily GW players hate potions so that was great to get rid of

usernameisapain.7163:

The first thing you did was compare fallout and gw2 ~~ Even if you to some extent did so to show that it cannot be compared, you still did so. I understand what you’re saying, however you still compared a game regardless of the intention of doing so.

Furthermore, the standard idea of price to content is a notion that has arrived after a multitude of games and expansions over the years have been released for a set price. Had the standard price for new games been 10$ and HoT been selling for 50$ I highly doubt that you would think it was a fair price. My point is that it is closely related, now that you don’t agree with that, is ok. However I really don’t think you would buy HoT right away if it was 5 times the price of the original game if GW2 had been 10$ and all other subsequent and previous games since 1995 had been between 5-10$.

Either way, this is going nowhere, if I have the willpower I’m done in this thread =)

Again, read my post that you quoted. All of those comparisons have been examples to show flaws in using them.

The prices you have set for games and has been standard for quite some time have nothing to do with the amount of content in them. Very old console games, think back to SNES, sold for $50. How much content were contained in those games compared to now. The prices have rose to a standard of $60 and yet we get a much much more content. This is one of the reasons that you cannot relate price to content. All you can do is examine the content of a particular game, determine it’s value to you, and then whether you personally feel that it’s worth paying the stated price for.

Sicarius.4639:

Zaklex.6308:

Also, for the person saying we need to stop this pre-ordering/pre-purchasing because it’s ruining the industry, that’s your opinion and your entitled to it, I however will continue to pre-order/pre-purchase products that interest me based on past performance.

However you like to justify your purchase is your own choosing. We’ve seen the pre-order culture evolve, we can see where it’s been and where it leads. We complain about more and more things being held behind paywalls and pieces cut out and resold to us, we also complain about subpar products. People that buy into this have no one to blame but themselves and no right to complain about said product. You’re selling your power as a consumer and the attitude of “it’s ok when [they] do it” will only hasten this.

This battle was already lost when people agreed to trade their privacy for things they would have got anyway. Like regular discounts instead of pay back cards, or agreed to be herded and made glasy by plattforms like Steam. If data protection agencies tell or even show them how much they are spied on, they either grin stupidly because they still don´t realize what this means (I cry for you, common sense! ), or they just don´t care and go on because it suits the laty attitute this enables them to keep.

So this next step, let people pre pay things to maximize profit by letting people pay for something the company had to do by all means and bank on lazy and forgiving customers who don´t give things back even if they suck or are tiny, is only logical.

What is going to be next? People being asked if they want to be the facility manager of Anets housings because that is awesome and heightens the gaming experience. Absurd? I am pretty sure this would work…

What LostBalloon said and said well. +1

Zaklex.6308:

lady godiva pet.9530:

you all seem to forget yes with each new complete game from guild wars 1 we got 2 new professions. But the original only had 6 professions at the start of prophecies. no specializations nothing special. no special armor other then style, no crafting, etc. Also the day the offered the ability to pre purchase gw2 there was 2 million copies sold. This was before alpha before info etc. this was just people knowing it was coming. No real info. at 60 for the game times 2 million copies in one day thats a crap ton of money with zero information.
Now the people who played gw1 from beta (like me) don’t care about info we know it is coming. Anet has never given much information with factions nightfall or EoTN. we knew basically what we are being told now. anet has never had to release all the minute details to their games to please everyone.
This marketing has worked for them for over 12 years. They still have many people buying the pre-purchase to HoT.

This person gets it, ArenaNet has worked like this since the beginning of the company. They’ve NEVER released all of the information on every one of their products before release, there’s no legal requirement to release all of the information before release or putting it out for sale/ordering, it being unethical is a matter of opinion(regardless of what the laws in Canada say, this is a U.S. based company, and I can guarantee you there have been plenty of products released in Canada that didn’t have all of the information about them given out before that release date, regardless of the product).

You can’t price compare things from today against things from 5 – 10 – 15 years ago, because of inflation, unless you want to factor in the inflation to the price of the object from way back when, only then can you do price comparison.

As for pre-purchasing or pre-ordering, that is really your decision to make, the company can provide you information that will help you make it, or you can use that mass of gray matter in your skull and think for yourself whether it’s worth it or not based on the use/enjoyment you’ve gotten out of the original product.

Also, for the person saying we need to stop this pre-ordering/pre-purchasing because it’s ruining the industry, that’s your opinion and your entitled to it, I however will continue to pre-order/pre-purchase products that interest me based on past performance.

(tl;dr at the end)

Yes, you’re right about a lot of things, and same with Destiny on console, people bought it just because it was Bungie, the makers of the Halo series. But Bungie kittened up big time, so this time around, with the expansion they had to prove they learned from it which is up to everyone to determine if they did. (and they are delivering more than what was mentioned on their leaked roadmap)

Now like I said, you’re right about ANET’s approach until now about not communicating much. But! The GW1 staff team was amazing and delivered quality and quantity that quenched every fan’s thirst. They were doing an amazing job, and the same was true for the launch of GW2. The thing is though, the last 2 years have been really rocky and full of blunders on their part, resulting in a major loss of confidence (Try the WvW forums to see what they think). Even sPvP, their eSports baby, was left out a lot and ask the players how long queue times are, simply because the’ve played the same mode for 3 years now. (Finally strongholds will be added, time to see how it will be appreciated)

tl;dr Anet kittened up a lot over the past 2 years and people are reluctant to follow them blindly and Anet is having a hard time understanding that and properly reacting to it (if they even can with their resources).

NB: Actually there are TONS of products available in the US that do not make it to Canada due to stricter regulations.

Ardenwolfe.8590:

What LostBalloon said and said well. +1

thank you

“Unanimous,” from this, or any other, game community?

Some serious revisionist history there. Don’t know if its ignorance of the facts, failing memory, failed comprehension, or conscious dishonesty. There has never been a unanimous community reaction here.

Ashen.2907:

“Unanimous,” from this, or any other, game community?

Some serious revisionist history there. Don’t know if its ignorance of the facts, failing memory, failed comprehension, or conscious dishonesty. There has never been a unanimous community reaction here.

On stuff like the commander badge costing 300g PER colour (which never made it into the game), there was, well if you count Vayne, then you’re right technically that it wasn’t unanimous…

Vayne.8563:

I’m not sure how the marketing is misleading. Can you give an example?

You do know because you are a smart dude. But I’ll humor you.

Remember the announcement at PAX South? We had no idea that the WvW Borderlands or the new PvP Mode wouldn’t be part of the x-pac. They are free. But they used them to sell us on HoT as if we were getting that as part of the price. Legendaries! There are new ones. Most people thought that meant the new Legendary weapons. You know, the ones we have been promised would come out since 2013?

Mike: “We aren’t raising the level cap!” as if to say, we aren’t adding an arbitrary system for you to have to grind. Well they are adding in an arbitrary grind in the form of masteries. If I want to kill that boss over there, I sure as heck have to go do stuff before I get to actually do it and spend the points on that instead of maybe other things.

If I’d go back and actually watch the PAX announcement from all the way back in January, I am sure I could find more for you and perhaps some more concrete than the ones I just mentioned. Am I stoked the Borderlands and PvP are free? Totally.

They did however make it seem like we were getting this super complete expansion experience in January but more and more this thing is feeling like we aren’t even going to fight Mordremoth, but rather a season will come afterwards. A season that is pay gated that isn’t finished yet. I am of the opinion they cash gated the seasons and masked them to look like an expansion. Again, just an opinion. I’m not stating that as fact, but time will tell.

Iason Evan.3806:

Mike: “We aren’t raising the level cap!” as if to say, we aren’t adding an arbitrary system for you to have to grind. Well they are adding in an arbitrary grind in the form of masteries. If I want to kill that boss over there, I sure as heck have to go do stuff before I get to actually do it and spend the points on that instead of maybe other things.

There is a rather significant difference between a statement being misleading and a reader choosing to read unstated intent into that statement.

If what they say is inaccurate or false, call them out on it. You adding commentary to their statement and then attempting to hold them accountable for being misleading for not adhering to what YOU said is far more misleading or dishonest than anything in their claims.

Iason Evan.3806:

Vayne.8563:

I’m not sure how the marketing is misleading. Can you give an example?

You do know because you are a smart dude. But I’ll humor you.

Remember the announcement at PAX South? We had no idea that the WvW Borderlands or the new PvP Mode wouldn’t be part of the x-pac. They are free. But they used them to sell us on HoT as if we were getting that as part of the price. Legendaries! There are new ones. Most people thought that meant the new Legendary weapons. You know, the ones we have been promised would come out since 2013?

Mike: “We aren’t raising the level cap!” as if to say, we aren’t adding an arbitrary system for you to have to grind. Well they are adding in an arbitrary grind in the form of masteries. If I want to kill that boss over there, I sure as heck have to go do stuff before I get to actually do it and spend the points on that instead of maybe other things.

If I’d go back and actually watch the PAX announcement from all the way back in January, I am sure I could find more for you and perhaps some more concrete than the ones I just mentioned. Am I stoked the Borderlands and PvP are free? Totally.

They did however make it seem like we were getting this super complete expansion experience in January but more and more this thing is feeling like we aren’t even going to fight Mordremoth, but rather a season will come afterwards. A season that is pay gated that isn’t finished yet. I am of the opinion they cash gated the seasons and masked them to look like an expansion. Again, just an opinion. I’m not stating that as fact, but time will tell.

I am a smart guy and that’s why I listen to what’s said and also look at what I"m getting. The WvW and SPvP changes ARE part of the expansion as in they come with the expansion. That is when the expansion launches changes to the main game will come. That doesn’t mean you always need an expansion to access those changes. It’s a change to the core game that come with the expansion. It’s only misleading if people aren’t paying attention. I don’t think I’ve played an MMO that hasn’t done something like this.

The legendary weapons are definitely coming slower than I would have thought, however, since most people don’t have the original legendary weapons and they can now work toward crafting precursors it’s a lot of content for people who wanted a legendary but never felt they could get a precursor. Hint, there are plenty of people like that out there.

Your exception with the mastery system though is the one I find most mystifying. Since launch people have been asking for horizontal progression. We’ve had CDIs on it. We’ve had discussions about it that have lasted for years. There’s not enough progression at max level. This same progression system was added to Guild Wars 1 successfully in the from of PvE only skills. Yes, you had to level the skills and some people found it a grind.

Leveling up and getting higher stats is vertical progression which a lot of people are against. Masteries is the thing in HoT I’m the most excited about and saying it’s misleading is misleading in and of itself. I can’t really think of a feature more requested by the playerbase as a whole (as opposed to something like raids which is requested bya vocal part of the playerbase but has also met serious resistence).

As for the complete or not complete expansion, I strongly suspect that all stuff included in the expansion is stuff we’ll get getting even if we dont’ get it at launch. Many games have launched and expansions where they’re not complete and stuff is added to them after, in many games.

The question has never been is it in the box. The people who ask those questions are single player gamers. The question has always been when this game continues what will I get over time. That’s the only realistic way to judge.

As an example, Fractals didn’t exist, weren’t advertised and weren’t a reason anyone bought Guild Wars 2, but Fractals are popular in some circles and they’re the system that replaced the dungeon system moving forward. Though I didn’t buy the game for Fractals, I prefer Fractals to dungeons. I never paid for those Fractals.

If Anet advertised HoT as a complete game that was never going to ever get another update, how many people do you think will buy it? What it looks like to me is that we’re getting a hybrid model of expansions and living world updates, which would certainly appease me.

Because I’ve played games with waiting for expansions and I always hated that last 9-10 months without any major upgrades. I hate it here too. Hopefully this won’t happen next time, because the formula for what they need to move forward is now in play.

Arena net is not ever trying: how can they try harder? Each time they try, it only gets worse, so how is that trying harder? Shouldn’t trying harder make improvement? So where are the improvements? Shouldn’t trying harder take serious actions against problems? So where are the serious actions taken? Shouldn’t trying harder learn from mistakes? Why are the same mistakes being repeated over? Shouldn’t trying harder try to make things work? So what is the point in trying harder to make things work if they’re are not even trying?

" Trying Takes All Mistakes Learned, And Bringing Things Closer To Working "

Until that happen,

Forget About The Expansion!

Let’s take a look at the claim that Anet is misleading people by saying PvP and WvW changes are part of the expansion.

What do you suppose the reaction would be if Anet made it so that only if you bought the expansion you could participate in the new WvW or the new PvP. There’d be rioting on this forum and everyone would accuse them of being greedy.

Anet has said all along they don’t want to divide the playerbase. When they act on that, people have the audacity to imply they’re doing something underhanded.

I suppose those same people would be happy if parts of their guild couldn’t join them in their perferred play style, or they were “forced” to buy the expansion.

This is why Anet can’t win.

It is misleading advertisment if Anet had advertised HoT with a sentence akin to:
“Buy HoT to get the new PvP and WvW map.”
I don´t know if they did, but that would be a classical misleading advertisment and illegal or at least disputable in many countries.

Torolan.5816:

It is misleading advertisment if Anet had advertised HoT with a sentence akin to:
“Buy HoT to get the new PvP and WvW map.”
I don´t know if they did, but that would be a classical misleading advertisment and illegal or at least disputable in many countries.

Specifically what they said was that the new borderland and the new pvp mode would be coming with the expansion. That doesn’t specifically say one way or the other that it will require the purchase of the expansion, although most would likely assume such, and Anet may have originally considered going that route. However, they have opted to give those to the players for free (the rather strong feedback may have helped this decision along), but that still doesn’t make their initial statement (“coming with the expansion”) false, or inaccurate. It does; however, highlight pretty well how people like to make assumptions and then riot when their assumptions turned out to be inaccurate.

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

Torolan.5816:

It is misleading advertisment if Anet had advertised HoT with a sentence akin to:
“Buy HoT to get the new PvP and WvW map.”
I don´t know if they did, but that would be a classical misleading advertisment and illegal or at least disputable in many countries.

Specifically what they said was that the new borderland and the new pvp mode would be coming with the expansion. That doesn’t specifically say one way or the other that it will require the purchase of the expansion, although most would likely assume such, and Anet may have originally considered going that route. However, they have opted to give those to the players for free (the rather strong feedback may have helped this decision along), but that still doesn’t make their initial statement (“coming with the expansion”) false, or inaccurate. It does; however, highlight pretty well how people like to make assumptions and then riot when their assumptions turned out to be inaccurate.

Anet made the decision to include those modes for everyone, instead of limiting it to those that purchase it. People should be applauding that decision considering what they could have done. And you know what this community would say if they went the other way around.

This is another example of Anet not being able to win.

And if they don’t include in in what they’re making with the expansion, people are already saying it’s small. It’s coming with the expansion. The expansion is likely funding it. If people choose not to support that, it doesn’t mean it’s not part of the expansion content.

Vayne.8563:

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

Torolan.5816:

It is misleading advertisment if Anet had advertised HoT with a sentence akin to:
“Buy HoT to get the new PvP and WvW map.”
I don´t know if they did, but that would be a classical misleading advertisment and illegal or at least disputable in many countries.

Specifically what they said was that the new borderland and the new pvp mode would be coming with the expansion. That doesn’t specifically say one way or the other that it will require the purchase of the expansion, although most would likely assume such, and Anet may have originally considered going that route. However, they have opted to give those to the players for free (the rather strong feedback may have helped this decision along), but that still doesn’t make their initial statement (“coming with the expansion”) false, or inaccurate. It does; however, highlight pretty well how people like to make assumptions and then riot when their assumptions turned out to be inaccurate.

Anet made the decision to include those modes for everyone, instead of limiting it to those that purchase it. People should be applauding that decision considering what they could have done. And you know what this community would say if they went the other way around.

This is another example of Anet not being able to win.

And if they don’t include in in what they’re making with the expansion, people are already saying it’s small. It’s coming with the expansion. The expansion is likely funding it. If people choose not to support that, it doesn’t mean it’s not part of the expansion content.

Lol Vayne, your first sentence kind of comes off as though you’re arguing with me, even though I said the same thing.

Anyway, yes, it’s another excellent example of Anet being in a lose-lose scenario. It wouldn’t have mattered which way they went, someone would have kittened. While I do applaud them for the approach they are taking, to others it just going to lend credibility to their delusions that the expansion is “too small for it’s price” because they now no longer consider those two things to be “part” of the expansion.

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

Vayne.8563:

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

Torolan.5816:

It is misleading advertisment if Anet had advertised HoT with a sentence akin to:
“Buy HoT to get the new PvP and WvW map.”
I don´t know if they did, but that would be a classical misleading advertisment and illegal or at least disputable in many countries.

Specifically what they said was that the new borderland and the new pvp mode would be coming with the expansion. That doesn’t specifically say one way or the other that it will require the purchase of the expansion, although most would likely assume such, and Anet may have originally considered going that route. However, they have opted to give those to the players for free (the rather strong feedback may have helped this decision along), but that still doesn’t make their initial statement (“coming with the expansion”) false, or inaccurate. It does; however, highlight pretty well how people like to make assumptions and then riot when their assumptions turned out to be inaccurate.

Anet made the decision to include those modes for everyone, instead of limiting it to those that purchase it. People should be applauding that decision considering what they could have done. And you know what this community would say if they went the other way around.

This is another example of Anet not being able to win.

And if they don’t include in in what they’re making with the expansion, people are already saying it’s small. It’s coming with the expansion. The expansion is likely funding it. If people choose not to support that, it doesn’t mean it’s not part of the expansion content.

Lol Vayne, your first sentence kind of comes off as though you’re arguing with me, even though I said the same thing.

Anyway, yes, it’s another excellent example of Anet being in a lose-lose scenario. It wouldn’t have mattered which way they went, someone would have kittened. While I do applaud them for the approach they are taking, to others it just going to lend credibility to their delusions that the expansion is “too small for it’s price” because they now no longer consider those two things to be “part” of the expansion.

Nah I was backing you up. Emphasizing. Quoting for truth. I know you agree with me.

Vayne.8563:

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

Vayne.8563:

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

Torolan.5816:

It is misleading advertisment if Anet had advertised HoT with a sentence akin to:
“Buy HoT to get the new PvP and WvW map.”
I don´t know if they did, but that would be a classical misleading advertisment and illegal or at least disputable in many countries.

Specifically what they said was that the new borderland and the new pvp mode would be coming with the expansion. That doesn’t specifically say one way or the other that it will require the purchase of the expansion, although most would likely assume such, and Anet may have originally considered going that route. However, they have opted to give those to the players for free (the rather strong feedback may have helped this decision along), but that still doesn’t make their initial statement (“coming with the expansion”) false, or inaccurate. It does; however, highlight pretty well how people like to make assumptions and then riot when their assumptions turned out to be inaccurate.

Anet made the decision to include those modes for everyone, instead of limiting it to those that purchase it. People should be applauding that decision considering what they could have done. And you know what this community would say if they went the other way around.

This is another example of Anet not being able to win.

And if they don’t include in in what they’re making with the expansion, people are already saying it’s small. It’s coming with the expansion. The expansion is likely funding it. If people choose not to support that, it doesn’t mean it’s not part of the expansion content.

Lol Vayne, your first sentence kind of comes off as though you’re arguing with me, even though I said the same thing.

Anyway, yes, it’s another excellent example of Anet being in a lose-lose scenario. It wouldn’t have mattered which way they went, someone would have kittened. While I do applaud them for the approach they are taking, to others it just going to lend credibility to their delusions that the expansion is “too small for it’s price” because they now no longer consider those two things to be “part” of the expansion.

Nah I was backing you up. Emphasizing. Quoting for truth. I know you agree with me.

chuckle

K, just making sure we weren’t going to end up in one of those warped arguments where both parties are actually saying the same thing, but just don’t realize it. Been in a few of those over my time here, and I still scratch my head at how I manage to get into those things. ( I guess arguing is just in my nature. )