Guild Wars 2

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

SkiTz.4590:

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

ZudetGambeous.9573:

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

lordkrall.7241:

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

I think too many people forget this. Probably because many play the game 40+ hours a week like it is a job.

sigh

So, why not give everyone everything for just simply logging in then?
It is not a job after all, thus everyone should just get everything from the start, right?

Yes Krall, lets give everyone everything and completely negate the entire reason to play what so ever. /sarcasm

Seriously, no one asked for, or even implied, that. Quit shoving words in other people’s mouths because you can’t comprehend the basic point being made.

This is exactly what people are asking for/ They want raids to be doable immediately upon hitting level 80 and getting exotic gear. This takes less than 30 hours of playing the game to get to this point.

Do you honestly think someone who just bought the game 2 weeks ago should be able to complete raids? Because the only thing that separates someone who bought the game 2 weeks ago from someone who bought the game 3 years ago is ascended gear, a solid guild, and experience.

It has already been established that the people in this thread think casual players should be able to beat raids, so there goes the experience part. It has already been said they should be able to pug them, so there goes the solid guild, and now people want it to be done in exotic gear.

So yes that is exactly what they are asking for, and it is absurd.

No one is asking to make it easier which is what both you and Krall are implying. Content can be done in a challenging way without requiring an additional tier of gear.

If they have the skill set, why the kitten does it matter when they started playing? Why does it bother you that joe schmoe picked up the game 2 weeks ago can raid because he’s just “good.” This kitten should have nothing to do with whether or not you have GEAR, rather whether or not you have SKILL.

SKILL > TIME!!!!

Ugh talk about lack of creativity.

“How do we make it harder George?”
“Uh… give the boss some one shot hits, up his HP, up his defense, and give them a new tier of gear to chase to compensate a tiny bit”

Please people. This kitten is WoW (and every clone since) all over again.

Lemme know when they add another tier above Ascended, than I can believe the bolded statement.

Until than, you are ridiculously overreacting.

Anet CLEARLY stated raids were going to be the endgame ppl were asking about. They said it a while ago in the HoT reveal that this was content made specifically for ENDGAME CHARACTERs.

Not for anyone to create a character and a week later, poof, they can now accomplish everything.

Its an MMORPG. There is grind in every MMORPG.

Deal with it or leave.

The only ppl whining about this are the ones that are hellbent on making sure they don’t have to do ANYTHING to get access to 100% of the content anet decides to create.

News flash, 90% of the things anet has added in this game for the past 3 years required little to no effort to do, to progress, etc etc.

You gonna seriously think they are gonna start making it where everything they add is going to require a grind now??? get kittening real.

You open world pve lovers are getting plenty in HoT.. anet is at least trying to give EVERY type of player what they want…. whether they be casual, hardcore, PvPers , WvWs, etc etc

Stop your bs whining and demanding anet create 100% content that you can access immediately.

They have, to a limited extent, told us that there won’t be a tier above ascended. So long as they hold to that stance and don’t change it, as they have their other views over the past 3 years.

However, the point is that the top tier of gear was exotic. Ascended came after, and we were told time and again that it wasn’t necessary for anything except fractals. Now, lo and behold, it looks like it might be required for raiding as well. So much for those assurances that it wasn’t necessary for anything except fractals.

Yes raids are one end game, but they could be that without the ascended requirement. Because now that supposedly optional gear is again being forced in our faces. So much for being optional right? How long before they simply balance the expansions as a whole around ascended armor? Still optional right?

I don’t mind grind. I’m well aware that it’s a necessary component of any MMO. That’s not the point here.

Oh, and just so you know. I HAVE ASCENDED GEAR. Technically speaking, I could be right there in line with the rest of you when the wings open. So assume some more.

Since when did raids becoming REQUIRED or FORCED onto every single player?

The entire kittening content known as RAIDS ARE OPTIONAL, THUS ASCENDED IS OPTIONAL.

Its not designed FOR 100% of the players to have IMMEDIATE ACCESS to.
There’s nothing WRONG with making content requirements for players who have grinded and played a long time.

Anet took the stance of “if you wanna play and complete raids, you have to wear this tier of gear” Anet is allowed to make restrictions if they are warranted… which they perfectly are seeing how this is THEIR VISION OF ENDGAME…. and in that case, you probably should have the BEST TIER ARMOR ON….

As long as they don’t powercreep and add a tier above legendary/ascended, They aren’t becoming some typical gear treadmill MMORPG……

JSmooth.7654:

lordkrall.7241:

“Lets go back to GW1, they touted Skill > Time”

I suppose we are ignoring the fact that this wasn’t really the case in reality?

Not sure what game you were playing >.>

Max level 20. Easy to buy top tier gear. Skills were bought, quested for, or captured quite easily.

Your play skill and/or build and group make-up determined how far you could go in the PvE content.

Laggo.8973:

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

PopeUrban.2578:

You’re really overreacting. There is no artificial gear check. You can attempt the content in exotics. You can probably even succeed if you’re good enough. Ascended isn’t becoming more powerful. They’re simply saying “this stuff is hard, you might want to bring the best possible stuff”

The bolded is my concern. If it is truly balanced around needing ascended gear, then logically speaking, no matter how skilled you actually are you may not be able to finish the content until you re-gear. Which, at that point, the content does become (in a sense) gated content. You cannot do ‘x’ until you have ‘y’ gear, and that’s a problem because they told us they didn’t want to do that. That wasn’t what the game was about.

If they take this stance now, slowly balancing the games progression around having ascended, how long before that touted “optional” tier is no longer optional, hmmm?

Lmao, this is the kind of person that wipes without making it past the bosses 1st phase and goes “Clearly this is impossible without Ascended” and makes a rage-filled post on the forums about how ANET lied to me, despite the reason they failed having nothing to do with gear and everything to do with their own skill.

You cannot do Fractal 50 until you have ascended gear. This is already in the game! What are you talking about when you say ‘thats not what the game is about’?

So many people in this thread don’t want to get ascended because it’s a “grind”, don’t want to find a guild or a pre-made team, don’t want to play meta or use proper food/runes because they like the way they play, and don’t even do the “hard” content in the game already because they can’t be bothered – but they want to raid and they don’t want to be excluded?

Can someone please explain that thought process to me?

Ah yes, let’s make some more assumptions, shall we?

I have ascended gear, actually a couple of a different sets. The grind isn’t my issue with it. The precedent it sets is an issue. The extremely limited means of obtaining it tends to grate my nerves too, but that’s neither here nor there for this conversation.

But sure, let’s just completely ignore the point I was making. /applaud

JSmooth.7654:

Not sure what game you were playing >.>

Max level 20. Easy to buy top tier gear. Skills were bought, quested for, or captured quite easily.

Your play skill and/or build and group make-up determined how far you could go in the PvE content.

Lets see:

http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Allegiance_skill
http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Sunspear_rank
http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Lightbringer
http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Asura_rank
http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Norn_rank
http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Deldrimor_rank
http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Ebon_Vanguard_rank

Ascended Gear to be required for raids sounds stupid.

Never underestimate the mighty players.

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

Laggo.8973:

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

PopeUrban.2578:

You’re really overreacting. There is no artificial gear check. You can attempt the content in exotics. You can probably even succeed if you’re good enough. Ascended isn’t becoming more powerful. They’re simply saying “this stuff is hard, you might want to bring the best possible stuff”

The bolded is my concern. If it is truly balanced around needing ascended gear, then logically speaking, no matter how skilled you actually are you may not be able to finish the content until you re-gear. Which, at that point, the content does become (in a sense) gated content. You cannot do ‘x’ until you have ‘y’ gear, and that’s a problem because they told us they didn’t want to do that. That wasn’t what the game was about.

If they take this stance now, slowly balancing the games progression around having ascended, how long before that touted “optional” tier is no longer optional, hmmm?

Lmao, this is the kind of person that wipes without making it past the bosses 1st phase and goes “Clearly this is impossible without Ascended” and makes a rage-filled post on the forums about how ANET lied to me, despite the reason they failed having nothing to do with gear and everything to do with their own skill.

You cannot do Fractal 50 until you have ascended gear. This is already in the game! What are you talking about when you say ‘thats not what the game is about’?

So many people in this thread don’t want to get ascended because it’s a “grind”, don’t want to find a guild or a pre-made team, don’t want to play meta or use proper food/runes because they like the way they play, and don’t even do the “hard” content in the game already because they can’t be bothered – but they want to raid and they don’t want to be excluded?

Can someone please explain that thought process to me?

Ah yes, let’s make some more assumptions, shall we?

I have ascended gear, actually a couple of a different sets. The grind isn’t my issue with it. The precedent it sets is an issue. The extremely limited means of obtaining it tends to grate my nerves too, but that’s neither here nor there for this conversation.

But sure, let’s just completely ignore the point I was making. /applaud

The precedent is ENDGAME CONTENT.
What part of ENDGAME , don’t you understand?

What was the endgame in PvE prior to raids??? High LEVEL FRACTALS – this required ASCENDED.

Did Anet all of a sudden add a tier above ascended required for raids that I’m missing information about??? NO, the SAME precedent is still being followed… so long as they don’t go above ascended, anet hasn’t done anything wrong by making endgame content require endgame armor/weapons…..

the endgame content previously had ascended, and the new endgame addition (raids) also uses ascended…… Wow… who would have thought….. that anet’s most challenging content to date wouldn’t require the games highest tier armor/weapon?

SkiTz.4590:

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

SkiTz.4590:

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

ZudetGambeous.9573:

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

lordkrall.7241:

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

I think too many people forget this. Probably because many play the game 40+ hours a week like it is a job.

sigh

So, why not give everyone everything for just simply logging in then?
It is not a job after all, thus everyone should just get everything from the start, right?

Yes Krall, lets give everyone everything and completely negate the entire reason to play what so ever. /sarcasm

Seriously, no one asked for, or even implied, that. Quit shoving words in other people’s mouths because you can’t comprehend the basic point being made.

This is exactly what people are asking for/ They want raids to be doable immediately upon hitting level 80 and getting exotic gear. This takes less than 30 hours of playing the game to get to this point.

Do you honestly think someone who just bought the game 2 weeks ago should be able to complete raids? Because the only thing that separates someone who bought the game 2 weeks ago from someone who bought the game 3 years ago is ascended gear, a solid guild, and experience.

It has already been established that the people in this thread think casual players should be able to beat raids, so there goes the experience part. It has already been said they should be able to pug them, so there goes the solid guild, and now people want it to be done in exotic gear.

So yes that is exactly what they are asking for, and it is absurd.

No one is asking to make it easier which is what both you and Krall are implying. Content can be done in a challenging way without requiring an additional tier of gear.

If they have the skill set, why the kitten does it matter when they started playing? Why does it bother you that joe schmoe picked up the game 2 weeks ago can raid because he’s just “good.” This kitten should have nothing to do with whether or not you have GEAR, rather whether or not you have SKILL.

SKILL > TIME!!!!

Ugh talk about lack of creativity.

“How do we make it harder George?”
“Uh… give the boss some one shot hits, up his HP, up his defense, and give them a new tier of gear to chase to compensate a tiny bit”

Please people. This kitten is WoW (and every clone since) all over again.

Lemme know when they add another tier above Ascended, than I can believe the bolded statement.

Until than, you are ridiculously overreacting.

Anet CLEARLY stated raids were going to be the endgame ppl were asking about. They said it a while ago in the HoT reveal that this was content made specifically for ENDGAME CHARACTERs.

Not for anyone to create a character and a week later, poof, they can now accomplish everything.

Its an MMORPG. There is grind in every MMORPG.

Deal with it or leave.

The only ppl whining about this are the ones that are hellbent on making sure they don’t have to do ANYTHING to get access to 100% of the content anet decides to create.

News flash, 90% of the things anet has added in this game for the past 3 years required little to no effort to do, to progress, etc etc.

You gonna seriously think they are gonna start making it where everything they add is going to require a grind now??? get kittening real.

You open world pve lovers are getting plenty in HoT.. anet is at least trying to give EVERY type of player what they want…. whether they be casual, hardcore, PvPers , WvWs, etc etc

Stop your bs whining and demanding anet create 100% content that you can access immediately.

They have, to a limited extent, told us that there won’t be a tier above ascended. So long as they hold to that stance and don’t change it, as they have their other views over the past 3 years.

However, the point is that the top tier of gear was exotic. Ascended came after, and we were told time and again that it wasn’t necessary for anything except fractals. Now, lo and behold, it looks like it might be required for raiding as well. So much for those assurances that it wasn’t necessary for anything except fractals.

Yes raids are one end game, but they could be that without the ascended requirement. Because now that supposedly optional gear is again being forced in our faces. So much for being optional right? How long before they simply balance the expansions as a whole around ascended armor? Still optional right?

I don’t mind grind. I’m well aware that it’s a necessary component of any MMO. That’s not the point here.

Oh, and just so you know. I HAVE ASCENDED GEAR. Technically speaking, I could be right there in line with the rest of you when the wings open. So assume some more.

Since when did raids becoming REQUIRED or FORCED onto every single player?

The entire kittening content known as RAIDS ARE OPTIONAL, THUS ASCENDED IS OPTIONAL.

Its not designed FOR 100% of the players to have IMMEDIATE ACCESS to.
There’s nothing WRONG with making content for players who have grinded and played a long time.

Anet took the stance of “if you wanna play and complete raids, you have to wear this tier of gear” Anet is allowed to make restrictions if they are waranted… which they perfectly as seeing how this is THEIR VISION OF ENDGAME….

They are only actually optional depending on how much story is actually tied to them, and how much that story matters to the greater scheme of things.

I did not state that raids are required. I did state that by them requiring ascended gear, the supposedly “optional” gear is again being forced into our faces. There is a difference.

As for ‘thier vision of endgame’ puhleeeeez. They are giving us raids because the traditional mmo base whined incessantly. They have given us a bit of their own spin on it, but even that is quite close to the standard raid set up (gear requirement, weekly lock outs, grindy prepare to play).

lordkrall.7241:

JSmooth.7654:

Not sure what game you were playing >.>

Max level 20. Easy to buy top tier gear. Skills were bought, quested for, or captured quite easily.

Your play skill and/or build and group make-up determined how far you could go in the PvE content.

Lets see:

http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Allegiance_skill
http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Sunspear_rank
http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Lightbringer
http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Asura_rank
http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Norn_rank
http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Deldrimor_rank
http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Ebon_Vanguard_rank

I stand by my statement

Ronnie Hu.1694:

Ascended Gear to be required for raids sounds stupid.

Never underestimate the mighty players.

Until you find out it’s gated on AR

SkiTz.4590:

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

Laggo.8973:

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

PopeUrban.2578:

You’re really overreacting. There is no artificial gear check. You can attempt the content in exotics. You can probably even succeed if you’re good enough. Ascended isn’t becoming more powerful. They’re simply saying “this stuff is hard, you might want to bring the best possible stuff”

The bolded is my concern. If it is truly balanced around needing ascended gear, then logically speaking, no matter how skilled you actually are you may not be able to finish the content until you re-gear. Which, at that point, the content does become (in a sense) gated content. You cannot do ‘x’ until you have ‘y’ gear, and that’s a problem because they told us they didn’t want to do that. That wasn’t what the game was about.

If they take this stance now, slowly balancing the games progression around having ascended, how long before that touted “optional” tier is no longer optional, hmmm?

Lmao, this is the kind of person that wipes without making it past the bosses 1st phase and goes “Clearly this is impossible without Ascended” and makes a rage-filled post on the forums about how ANET lied to me, despite the reason they failed having nothing to do with gear and everything to do with their own skill.

You cannot do Fractal 50 until you have ascended gear. This is already in the game! What are you talking about when you say ‘thats not what the game is about’?

So many people in this thread don’t want to get ascended because it’s a “grind”, don’t want to find a guild or a pre-made team, don’t want to play meta or use proper food/runes because they like the way they play, and don’t even do the “hard” content in the game already because they can’t be bothered – but they want to raid and they don’t want to be excluded?

Can someone please explain that thought process to me?

Ah yes, let’s make some more assumptions, shall we?

I have ascended gear, actually a couple of a different sets. The grind isn’t my issue with it. The precedent it sets is an issue. The extremely limited means of obtaining it tends to grate my nerves too, but that’s neither here nor there for this conversation.

But sure, let’s just completely ignore the point I was making. /applaud

The precedent is ENDGAME CONTENT.
What part of ENDGAME , don’t you understand?

What was the endgame in PvE prior to raids??? High LEVEL FRACTALS – this required ASCENDED.

Did Anet all of a sudden add a tier above ascended required for raids that I’m missing information about??? NO, the precedent is still being followed

the endgame content previously had ascended, and the new endgame addition (raids) also uses ascended…… Wow… who would have thought….. that anet’s most challenging content to date wouldn’t require the games highest tier armor/weapon?

“The entire game is endagme”

Ascended and fractals were added as a top gap measure after launch. They were not the originally intended “end game.” Stop holding them up as the precedent, because they are not. They are an example of Anet doing an about face on their principles because traditional MMOers didn’t know how to adapt.

Edit: Side note, the precedent I was speaking of, regarding ascended gear, was anet’s willingness to simply throw in another tier of gear to grind out when the going got rough, despite their own assurances that that wasn’t what the game was about or how they wanted to go about progression.

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

SkiTz.4590:

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

SkiTz.4590:

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

ZudetGambeous.9573:

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

lordkrall.7241:

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

I think too many people forget this. Probably because many play the game 40+ hours a week like it is a job.

sigh

So, why not give everyone everything for just simply logging in then?
It is not a job after all, thus everyone should just get everything from the start, right?

Yes Krall, lets give everyone everything and completely negate the entire reason to play what so ever. /sarcasm

Seriously, no one asked for, or even implied, that. Quit shoving words in other people’s mouths because you can’t comprehend the basic point being made.

This is exactly what people are asking for/ They want raids to be doable immediately upon hitting level 80 and getting exotic gear. This takes less than 30 hours of playing the game to get to this point.

Do you honestly think someone who just bought the game 2 weeks ago should be able to complete raids? Because the only thing that separates someone who bought the game 2 weeks ago from someone who bought the game 3 years ago is ascended gear, a solid guild, and experience.

It has already been established that the people in this thread think casual players should be able to beat raids, so there goes the experience part. It has already been said they should be able to pug them, so there goes the solid guild, and now people want it to be done in exotic gear.

So yes that is exactly what they are asking for, and it is absurd.

No one is asking to make it easier which is what both you and Krall are implying. Content can be done in a challenging way without requiring an additional tier of gear.

If they have the skill set, why the kitten does it matter when they started playing? Why does it bother you that joe schmoe picked up the game 2 weeks ago can raid because he’s just “good.” This kitten should have nothing to do with whether or not you have GEAR, rather whether or not you have SKILL.

SKILL > TIME!!!!

Ugh talk about lack of creativity.

“How do we make it harder George?”
“Uh… give the boss some one shot hits, up his HP, up his defense, and give them a new tier of gear to chase to compensate a tiny bit”

Please people. This kitten is WoW (and every clone since) all over again.

Lemme know when they add another tier above Ascended, than I can believe the bolded statement.

Until than, you are ridiculously overreacting.

Anet CLEARLY stated raids were going to be the endgame ppl were asking about. They said it a while ago in the HoT reveal that this was content made specifically for ENDGAME CHARACTERs.

Not for anyone to create a character and a week later, poof, they can now accomplish everything.

Its an MMORPG. There is grind in every MMORPG.

Deal with it or leave.

The only ppl whining about this are the ones that are hellbent on making sure they don’t have to do ANYTHING to get access to 100% of the content anet decides to create.

News flash, 90% of the things anet has added in this game for the past 3 years required little to no effort to do, to progress, etc etc.

You gonna seriously think they are gonna start making it where everything they add is going to require a grind now??? get kittening real.

You open world pve lovers are getting plenty in HoT.. anet is at least trying to give EVERY type of player what they want…. whether they be casual, hardcore, PvPers , WvWs, etc etc

Stop your bs whining and demanding anet create 100% content that you can access immediately.

They have, to a limited extent, told us that there won’t be a tier above ascended. So long as they hold to that stance and don’t change it, as they have their other views over the past 3 years.

However, the point is that the top tier of gear was exotic. Ascended came after, and we were told time and again that it wasn’t necessary for anything except fractals. Now, lo and behold, it looks like it might be required for raiding as well. So much for those assurances that it wasn’t necessary for anything except fractals.

Yes raids are one end game, but they could be that without the ascended requirement. Because now that supposedly optional gear is again being forced in our faces. So much for being optional right? How long before they simply balance the expansions as a whole around ascended armor? Still optional right?

I don’t mind grind. I’m well aware that it’s a necessary component of any MMO. That’s not the point here.

Oh, and just so you know. I HAVE ASCENDED GEAR. Technically speaking, I could be right there in line with the rest of you when the wings open. So assume some more.

Since when did raids becoming REQUIRED or FORCED onto every single player?

The entire kittening content known as RAIDS ARE OPTIONAL, THUS ASCENDED IS OPTIONAL.

Its not designed FOR 100% of the players to have IMMEDIATE ACCESS to.
There’s nothing WRONG with making content for players who have grinded and played a long time.

Anet took the stance of “if you wanna play and complete raids, you have to wear this tier of gear” Anet is allowed to make restrictions if they are waranted… which they perfectly as seeing how this is THEIR VISION OF ENDGAME….

They are only actually optional depending on how much story is actually tied to them, and how much that story matters to the greater scheme of things.

I did not state that raids are required. I did state that by them requiring ascended gear, the supposedly “optional” gear is again being forced into our faces. There is a difference.

As for ‘thier vision of endgame’ puhleeeeez. They are giving us raids because the traditional mmo base whined incessantly. They have given us a bit of their own spin on it, but even that is quite close to the standard raid set up (gear requirement, weekly lock outs, grindy prepare to play).

no way!??! anet is making a business decision to create content to attract NEW TYPES OF CUSTOMERS to the game?!!? WHO WOULD HAVE THOUGHT!?!?!?

and, oh cry me a river about anets decision to add ascended into the game over 2 years ago over exotics…..they are allowed to freely change things how they want, and EVERY COMPANY has gone back on their word for somethings….

They thought exotics alone were not enough diversity in terms of content/progression ( and I believe them)

SkiTz.4590:

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

SkiTz.4590:

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

SkiTz.4590:

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

ZudetGambeous.9573:

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

lordkrall.7241:

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

I think too many people forget this. Probably because many play the game 40+ hours a week like it is a job.

sigh

So, why not give everyone everything for just simply logging in then?
It is not a job after all, thus everyone should just get everything from the start, right?

Yes Krall, lets give everyone everything and completely negate the entire reason to play what so ever. /sarcasm

Seriously, no one asked for, or even implied, that. Quit shoving words in other people’s mouths because you can’t comprehend the basic point being made.

This is exactly what people are asking for/ They want raids to be doable immediately upon hitting level 80 and getting exotic gear. This takes less than 30 hours of playing the game to get to this point.

Do you honestly think someone who just bought the game 2 weeks ago should be able to complete raids? Because the only thing that separates someone who bought the game 2 weeks ago from someone who bought the game 3 years ago is ascended gear, a solid guild, and experience.

It has already been established that the people in this thread think casual players should be able to beat raids, so there goes the experience part. It has already been said they should be able to pug them, so there goes the solid guild, and now people want it to be done in exotic gear.

So yes that is exactly what they are asking for, and it is absurd.

No one is asking to make it easier which is what both you and Krall are implying. Content can be done in a challenging way without requiring an additional tier of gear.

If they have the skill set, why the kitten does it matter when they started playing? Why does it bother you that joe schmoe picked up the game 2 weeks ago can raid because he’s just “good.” This kitten should have nothing to do with whether or not you have GEAR, rather whether or not you have SKILL.

SKILL > TIME!!!!

Ugh talk about lack of creativity.

“How do we make it harder George?”
“Uh… give the boss some one shot hits, up his HP, up his defense, and give them a new tier of gear to chase to compensate a tiny bit”

Please people. This kitten is WoW (and every clone since) all over again.

Lemme know when they add another tier above Ascended, than I can believe the bolded statement.

Until than, you are ridiculously overreacting.

Anet CLEARLY stated raids were going to be the endgame ppl were asking about. They said it a while ago in the HoT reveal that this was content made specifically for ENDGAME CHARACTERs.

Not for anyone to create a character and a week later, poof, they can now accomplish everything.

Its an MMORPG. There is grind in every MMORPG.

Deal with it or leave.

The only ppl whining about this are the ones that are hellbent on making sure they don’t have to do ANYTHING to get access to 100% of the content anet decides to create.

News flash, 90% of the things anet has added in this game for the past 3 years required little to no effort to do, to progress, etc etc.

You gonna seriously think they are gonna start making it where everything they add is going to require a grind now??? get kittening real.

You open world pve lovers are getting plenty in HoT.. anet is at least trying to give EVERY type of player what they want…. whether they be casual, hardcore, PvPers , WvWs, etc etc

Stop your bs whining and demanding anet create 100% content that you can access immediately.

They have, to a limited extent, told us that there won’t be a tier above ascended. So long as they hold to that stance and don’t change it, as they have their other views over the past 3 years.

However, the point is that the top tier of gear was exotic. Ascended came after, and we were told time and again that it wasn’t necessary for anything except fractals. Now, lo and behold, it looks like it might be required for raiding as well. So much for those assurances that it wasn’t necessary for anything except fractals.

Yes raids are one end game, but they could be that without the ascended requirement. Because now that supposedly optional gear is again being forced in our faces. So much for being optional right? How long before they simply balance the expansions as a whole around ascended armor? Still optional right?

I don’t mind grind. I’m well aware that it’s a necessary component of any MMO. That’s not the point here.

Oh, and just so you know. I HAVE ASCENDED GEAR. Technically speaking, I could be right there in line with the rest of you when the wings open. So assume some more.

Since when did raids becoming REQUIRED or FORCED onto every single player?

The entire kittening content known as RAIDS ARE OPTIONAL, THUS ASCENDED IS OPTIONAL.

Its not designed FOR 100% of the players to have IMMEDIATE ACCESS to.
There’s nothing WRONG with making content for players who have grinded and played a long time.

Anet took the stance of “if you wanna play and complete raids, you have to wear this tier of gear” Anet is allowed to make restrictions if they are waranted… which they perfectly as seeing how this is THEIR VISION OF ENDGAME….

They are only actually optional depending on how much story is actually tied to them, and how much that story matters to the greater scheme of things.

I did not state that raids are required. I did state that by them requiring ascended gear, the supposedly “optional” gear is again being forced into our faces. There is a difference.

As for ‘thier vision of endgame’ puhleeeeez. They are giving us raids because the traditional mmo base whined incessantly. They have given us a bit of their own spin on it, but even that is quite close to the standard raid set up (gear requirement, weekly lock outs, grindy prepare to play).

no way!??! anet is making a business decision to create content to attract NEW TYPES OF CUSTOMERS to the game?!!? WHO WOULD HAVE THOUGHT!?!?!?

Except that’s not what the game was billed as. There are numerous games out there for those types of players. Anet billed GW2 as something new, something different. Instead, they are simply turning it into another clone. One component at a time.

Unfortunately, GW2 will likely run into the same issue as all those other games. Those people that whined that wanted these things still won’t be happy because GW2 is not whatever ‘x’ other game they desire, and they’ll end up leaving anyway. We’ve seen it time and again with the other clones out there. I’m not sure if that just kittenes me off or makes me depressed, because I do love this game.

The tweet: https://mobile.twitter.com/All_Caulle/status/649239988282875907

Anet, please, please reconsider this. While Ascended trinkets are fairly easy to get and Ascended weapons aren’t that bad to craft, Ascended armor is just stupidly expensive, even more so if you have alts you might want to gear up. By requiring full Ascended gear, you will effectively be locking out huge portions of the community from the game’s first and only raid and directly contradicting your design philosophy of having fun rather than preparing to have fun. You will also introduce an opportunity for toxicity as raid groups will require gear checks before allowing entrance, which is just a negative experience for everyone involved.

Requiring level 80 with full Exotics is fine as it isn’t that difficult to gear up to Exotic, but Ascended gear is another matter. It’s so difficult the most players have difficulty getting even one character in full Ascended, much less their alts. This means that even the players that can enter the raid likely won’t be able to play it with more than one or two characters, making running the raid much less interesting in the long run.

I’m just baffled by this decision. While I’ll acknowledge that Ascended armor seems kinda pointless right now, this isn’t the right way to give it value.

Are we talking about Agony Resistance or what’s the big deal about Ascended Gear? I don’t get it. If you tell me 90 main stat points make a real difference then I wonder what’s going on with the design.

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

SkiTz.4590:

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

SkiTz.4590:

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

SkiTz.4590:

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

ZudetGambeous.9573:

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

lordkrall.7241:

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

I think too many people forget this. Probably because many play the game 40+ hours a week like it is a job.

sigh

So, why not give everyone everything for just simply logging in then?
It is not a job after all, thus everyone should just get everything from the start, right?

Yes Krall, lets give everyone everything and completely negate the entire reason to play what so ever. /sarcasm

Seriously, no one asked for, or even implied, that. Quit shoving words in other people’s mouths because you can’t comprehend the basic point being made.

This is exactly what people are asking for/ They want raids to be doable immediately upon hitting level 80 and getting exotic gear. This takes less than 30 hours of playing the game to get to this point.

Do you honestly think someone who just bought the game 2 weeks ago should be able to complete raids? Because the only thing that separates someone who bought the game 2 weeks ago from someone who bought the game 3 years ago is ascended gear, a solid guild, and experience.

It has already been established that the people in this thread think casual players should be able to beat raids, so there goes the experience part. It has already been said they should be able to pug them, so there goes the solid guild, and now people want it to be done in exotic gear.

So yes that is exactly what they are asking for, and it is absurd.

No one is asking to make it easier which is what both you and Krall are implying. Content can be done in a challenging way without requiring an additional tier of gear.

If they have the skill set, why the kitten does it matter when they started playing? Why does it bother you that joe schmoe picked up the game 2 weeks ago can raid because he’s just “good.” This kitten should have nothing to do with whether or not you have GEAR, rather whether or not you have SKILL.

SKILL > TIME!!!!

Ugh talk about lack of creativity.

“How do we make it harder George?”
“Uh… give the boss some one shot hits, up his HP, up his defense, and give them a new tier of gear to chase to compensate a tiny bit”

Please people. This kitten is WoW (and every clone since) all over again.

Lemme know when they add another tier above Ascended, than I can believe the bolded statement.

Until than, you are ridiculously overreacting.

Anet CLEARLY stated raids were going to be the endgame ppl were asking about. They said it a while ago in the HoT reveal that this was content made specifically for ENDGAME CHARACTERs.

Not for anyone to create a character and a week later, poof, they can now accomplish everything.

Its an MMORPG. There is grind in every MMORPG.

Deal with it or leave.

The only ppl whining about this are the ones that are hellbent on making sure they don’t have to do ANYTHING to get access to 100% of the content anet decides to create.

News flash, 90% of the things anet has added in this game for the past 3 years required little to no effort to do, to progress, etc etc.

You gonna seriously think they are gonna start making it where everything they add is going to require a grind now??? get kittening real.

You open world pve lovers are getting plenty in HoT.. anet is at least trying to give EVERY type of player what they want…. whether they be casual, hardcore, PvPers , WvWs, etc etc

Stop your bs whining and demanding anet create 100% content that you can access immediately.

They have, to a limited extent, told us that there won’t be a tier above ascended. So long as they hold to that stance and don’t change it, as they have their other views over the past 3 years.

However, the point is that the top tier of gear was exotic. Ascended came after, and we were told time and again that it wasn’t necessary for anything except fractals. Now, lo and behold, it looks like it might be required for raiding as well. So much for those assurances that it wasn’t necessary for anything except fractals.

Yes raids are one end game, but they could be that without the ascended requirement. Because now that supposedly optional gear is again being forced in our faces. So much for being optional right? How long before they simply balance the expansions as a whole around ascended armor? Still optional right?

I don’t mind grind. I’m well aware that it’s a necessary component of any MMO. That’s not the point here.

Oh, and just so you know. I HAVE ASCENDED GEAR. Technically speaking, I could be right there in line with the rest of you when the wings open. So assume some more.

Since when did raids becoming REQUIRED or FORCED onto every single player?

The entire kittening content known as RAIDS ARE OPTIONAL, THUS ASCENDED IS OPTIONAL.

Its not designed FOR 100% of the players to have IMMEDIATE ACCESS to.
There’s nothing WRONG with making content for players who have grinded and played a long time.

Anet took the stance of “if you wanna play and complete raids, you have to wear this tier of gear” Anet is allowed to make restrictions if they are waranted… which they perfectly as seeing how this is THEIR VISION OF ENDGAME….

They are only actually optional depending on how much story is actually tied to them, and how much that story matters to the greater scheme of things.

I did not state that raids are required. I did state that by them requiring ascended gear, the supposedly “optional” gear is again being forced into our faces. There is a difference.

As for ‘thier vision of endgame’ puhleeeeez. They are giving us raids because the traditional mmo base whined incessantly. They have given us a bit of their own spin on it, but even that is quite close to the standard raid set up (gear requirement, weekly lock outs, grindy prepare to play).

no way!??! anet is making a business decision to create content to attract NEW TYPES OF CUSTOMERS to the game?!!? WHO WOULD HAVE THOUGHT!?!?!?

Except that’s not what the game was billed as. There are numerous games out there for those types of players. Anet billed GW2 as something new, something different. Instead, they are simply turning it into another clone. One component at a time.

Unfortunately, GW2 will likely run into the same issue as all those other games. Those people that whined that wanted these things still won’t be happy because GW2 is not whatever ‘x’ other game they desire, and they’ll end up leaving anyway. We’ve seen it time and again with the other clones out there. I’m not sure if that just kittenes me off or makes me depressed, because I do love this game.

Please show me where they removed the ever evolving story, the open world event system and the tons of open world bosses/content…

or wait… did they keep adding their original ideas and then added MORE stuff on top of that… It’s amazing how selfish some people are.

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

SkiTz.4590:

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

SkiTz.4590:

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

SkiTz.4590:

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

ZudetGambeous.9573:

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

lordkrall.7241:

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

I think too many people forget this. Probably because many play the game 40+ hours a week like it is a job.

sigh

So, why not give everyone everything for just simply logging in then?
It is not a job after all, thus everyone should just get everything from the start, right?

Yes Krall, lets give everyone everything and completely negate the entire reason to play what so ever. /sarcasm

Seriously, no one asked for, or even implied, that. Quit shoving words in other people’s mouths because you can’t comprehend the basic point being made.

This is exactly what people are asking for/ They want raids to be doable immediately upon hitting level 80 and getting exotic gear. This takes less than 30 hours of playing the game to get to this point.

Do you honestly think someone who just bought the game 2 weeks ago should be able to complete raids? Because the only thing that separates someone who bought the game 2 weeks ago from someone who bought the game 3 years ago is ascended gear, a solid guild, and experience.

It has already been established that the people in this thread think casual players should be able to beat raids, so there goes the experience part. It has already been said they should be able to pug them, so there goes the solid guild, and now people want it to be done in exotic gear.

So yes that is exactly what they are asking for, and it is absurd.

No one is asking to make it easier which is what both you and Krall are implying. Content can be done in a challenging way without requiring an additional tier of gear.

If they have the skill set, why the kitten does it matter when they started playing? Why does it bother you that joe schmoe picked up the game 2 weeks ago can raid because he’s just “good.” This kitten should have nothing to do with whether or not you have GEAR, rather whether or not you have SKILL.

SKILL > TIME!!!!

Ugh talk about lack of creativity.

“How do we make it harder George?”
“Uh… give the boss some one shot hits, up his HP, up his defense, and give them a new tier of gear to chase to compensate a tiny bit”

Please people. This kitten is WoW (and every clone since) all over again.

Lemme know when they add another tier above Ascended, than I can believe the bolded statement.

Until than, you are ridiculously overreacting.

Anet CLEARLY stated raids were going to be the endgame ppl were asking about. They said it a while ago in the HoT reveal that this was content made specifically for ENDGAME CHARACTERs.

Not for anyone to create a character and a week later, poof, they can now accomplish everything.

Its an MMORPG. There is grind in every MMORPG.

Deal with it or leave.

The only ppl whining about this are the ones that are hellbent on making sure they don’t have to do ANYTHING to get access to 100% of the content anet decides to create.

News flash, 90% of the things anet has added in this game for the past 3 years required little to no effort to do, to progress, etc etc.

You gonna seriously think they are gonna start making it where everything they add is going to require a grind now??? get kittening real.

You open world pve lovers are getting plenty in HoT.. anet is at least trying to give EVERY type of player what they want…. whether they be casual, hardcore, PvPers , WvWs, etc etc

Stop your bs whining and demanding anet create 100% content that you can access immediately.

They have, to a limited extent, told us that there won’t be a tier above ascended. So long as they hold to that stance and don’t change it, as they have their other views over the past 3 years.

However, the point is that the top tier of gear was exotic. Ascended came after, and we were told time and again that it wasn’t necessary for anything except fractals. Now, lo and behold, it looks like it might be required for raiding as well. So much for those assurances that it wasn’t necessary for anything except fractals.

Yes raids are one end game, but they could be that without the ascended requirement. Because now that supposedly optional gear is again being forced in our faces. So much for being optional right? How long before they simply balance the expansions as a whole around ascended armor? Still optional right?

I don’t mind grind. I’m well aware that it’s a necessary component of any MMO. That’s not the point here.

Oh, and just so you know. I HAVE ASCENDED GEAR. Technically speaking, I could be right there in line with the rest of you when the wings open. So assume some more.

Since when did raids becoming REQUIRED or FORCED onto every single player?

The entire kittening content known as RAIDS ARE OPTIONAL, THUS ASCENDED IS OPTIONAL.

Its not designed FOR 100% of the players to have IMMEDIATE ACCESS to.
There’s nothing WRONG with making content for players who have grinded and played a long time.

Anet took the stance of “if you wanna play and complete raids, you have to wear this tier of gear” Anet is allowed to make restrictions if they are waranted… which they perfectly as seeing how this is THEIR VISION OF ENDGAME….

They are only actually optional depending on how much story is actually tied to them, and how much that story matters to the greater scheme of things.

I did not state that raids are required. I did state that by them requiring ascended gear, the supposedly “optional” gear is again being forced into our faces. There is a difference.

As for ‘thier vision of endgame’ puhleeeeez. They are giving us raids because the traditional mmo base whined incessantly. They have given us a bit of their own spin on it, but even that is quite close to the standard raid set up (gear requirement, weekly lock outs, grindy prepare to play).

no way!??! anet is making a business decision to create content to attract NEW TYPES OF CUSTOMERS to the game?!!? WHO WOULD HAVE THOUGHT!?!?!?

Except that’s not what the game was billed as. There are numerous games out there for those types of players. Anet billed GW2 as something new, something different. Instead, they are simply turning it into another clone. One component at a time.

Unfortunately, GW2 will likely run into the same issue as all those other games. Those people that whined that wanted these things still won’t be happy because GW2 is not whatever ‘x’ other game they desire, and they’ll end up leaving anyway. We’ve seen it time and again with the other clones out there. I’m not sure if that just kittenes me off or makes me depressed, because I do love this game.

Then use logic
Why do you think anet is trying to attract those new types of customers??
TO INCREASE REVENUE. They are BUSINESS.
You think what the game was originally “billed on” was going to sustain them?? really??

That was the ORIGINAL selling point, sure.
But anet clearly doesn’t like the fact the population has been constantly dropping and their ORIGINAL IDEA is not being sustained, hence the work on an xpac/new types of content.

You do realize ANET is STILL STICKING TO THEIR ORIGINAL IDEA WHILE MIXING IN NEW THINGS LIKE RAIDS…. or did you forget about the fact LS will continue, open world content is getting 4 gigantic new maps…. etc etc..??

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

SkiTz.4590:

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

SkiTz.4590:

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

SkiTz.4590:

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

ZudetGambeous.9573:

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

lordkrall.7241:

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

I think too many people forget this. Probably because many play the game 40+ hours a week like it is a job.

sigh

So, why not give everyone everything for just simply logging in then?
It is not a job after all, thus everyone should just get everything from the start, right?

Yes Krall, lets give everyone everything and completely negate the entire reason to play what so ever. /sarcasm

Seriously, no one asked for, or even implied, that. Quit shoving words in other people’s mouths because you can’t comprehend the basic point being made.

This is exactly what people are asking for/ They want raids to be doable immediately upon hitting level 80 and getting exotic gear. This takes less than 30 hours of playing the game to get to this point.

Do you honestly think someone who just bought the game 2 weeks ago should be able to complete raids? Because the only thing that separates someone who bought the game 2 weeks ago from someone who bought the game 3 years ago is ascended gear, a solid guild, and experience.

It has already been established that the people in this thread think casual players should be able to beat raids, so there goes the experience part. It has already been said they should be able to pug them, so there goes the solid guild, and now people want it to be done in exotic gear.

So yes that is exactly what they are asking for, and it is absurd.

No one is asking to make it easier which is what both you and Krall are implying. Content can be done in a challenging way without requiring an additional tier of gear.

If they have the skill set, why the kitten does it matter when they started playing? Why does it bother you that joe schmoe picked up the game 2 weeks ago can raid because he’s just “good.” This kitten should have nothing to do with whether or not you have GEAR, rather whether or not you have SKILL.

SKILL > TIME!!!!

Ugh talk about lack of creativity.

“How do we make it harder George?”
“Uh… give the boss some one shot hits, up his HP, up his defense, and give them a new tier of gear to chase to compensate a tiny bit”

Please people. This kitten is WoW (and every clone since) all over again.

Lemme know when they add another tier above Ascended, than I can believe the bolded statement.

Until than, you are ridiculously overreacting.

Anet CLEARLY stated raids were going to be the endgame ppl were asking about. They said it a while ago in the HoT reveal that this was content made specifically for ENDGAME CHARACTERs.

Not for anyone to create a character and a week later, poof, they can now accomplish everything.

Its an MMORPG. There is grind in every MMORPG.

Deal with it or leave.

The only ppl whining about this are the ones that are hellbent on making sure they don’t have to do ANYTHING to get access to 100% of the content anet decides to create.

News flash, 90% of the things anet has added in this game for the past 3 years required little to no effort to do, to progress, etc etc.

You gonna seriously think they are gonna start making it where everything they add is going to require a grind now??? get kittening real.

You open world pve lovers are getting plenty in HoT.. anet is at least trying to give EVERY type of player what they want…. whether they be casual, hardcore, PvPers , WvWs, etc etc

Stop your bs whining and demanding anet create 100% content that you can access immediately.

They have, to a limited extent, told us that there won’t be a tier above ascended. So long as they hold to that stance and don’t change it, as they have their other views over the past 3 years.

However, the point is that the top tier of gear was exotic. Ascended came after, and we were told time and again that it wasn’t necessary for anything except fractals. Now, lo and behold, it looks like it might be required for raiding as well. So much for those assurances that it wasn’t necessary for anything except fractals.

Yes raids are one end game, but they could be that without the ascended requirement. Because now that supposedly optional gear is again being forced in our faces. So much for being optional right? How long before they simply balance the expansions as a whole around ascended armor? Still optional right?

I don’t mind grind. I’m well aware that it’s a necessary component of any MMO. That’s not the point here.

Oh, and just so you know. I HAVE ASCENDED GEAR. Technically speaking, I could be right there in line with the rest of you when the wings open. So assume some more.

Since when did raids becoming REQUIRED or FORCED onto every single player?

The entire kittening content known as RAIDS ARE OPTIONAL, THUS ASCENDED IS OPTIONAL.

Its not designed FOR 100% of the players to have IMMEDIATE ACCESS to.
There’s nothing WRONG with making content for players who have grinded and played a long time.

Anet took the stance of “if you wanna play and complete raids, you have to wear this tier of gear” Anet is allowed to make restrictions if they are waranted… which they perfectly as seeing how this is THEIR VISION OF ENDGAME….

They are only actually optional depending on how much story is actually tied to them, and how much that story matters to the greater scheme of things.

I did not state that raids are required. I did state that by them requiring ascended gear, the supposedly “optional” gear is again being forced into our faces. There is a difference.

As for ‘thier vision of endgame’ puhleeeeez. They are giving us raids because the traditional mmo base whined incessantly. They have given us a bit of their own spin on it, but even that is quite close to the standard raid set up (gear requirement, weekly lock outs, grindy prepare to play).

no way!??! anet is making a business decision to create content to attract NEW TYPES OF CUSTOMERS to the game?!!? WHO WOULD HAVE THOUGHT!?!?!?

Except that’s not what the game was billed as. There are numerous games out there for those types of players. Anet billed GW2 as something new, something different. Instead, they are simply turning it into another clone. One component at a time.

Unfortunately, GW2 will likely run into the same issue as all those other games. Those people that whined that wanted these things still won’t be happy because GW2 is not whatever ‘x’ other game they desire, and they’ll end up leaving anyway. We’ve seen it time and again with the other clones out there. I’m not sure if that just kittenes me off or makes me depressed, because I do love this game.

Weclome to the Metrix ™!

This is another of these steps from ANet. Let’s see what the next shiny thing will be they promote and then forget about…

I think you like everyone else that make these thread now mix up must be and should be.

Same with dungeons you should be in exotics but people can do it naked with just weapons

Rabe.2456:

Are we talking about Agony Resistance or what’s the big deal about Ascended Gear? I don’t get it. If you tell me 90 main stat points make a real difference then I wonder what’s going on with the design.

Well, 90 may not be a lot. But what about 900 when multiply that across the full group needed for raids? 900 may be a noticeable difference.

Ascended does matter anyway. In WvW it can be the difference between almost downing someone or actually downing them.

You honestly believe anets new endgame content, “most challenging content” should require basic exotics or the actual endgame gear (ascended)???

This content was not created for someone to simply hit 80 and bam, waltz right into the raid in their rares/exotics and complete it like it was nothing.

What was the endgame prior to raids? Fractals. What did high lvl fractals require? ascended.

Its only logical that anything tabbed by anet as “endgame” uses the endgame armor/weapons……

SkiTz.4590:

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

SkiTz.4590:

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

SkiTz.4590:

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

SkiTz.4590:

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

ZudetGambeous.9573:

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

lordkrall.7241:

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

I think too many people forget this. Probably because many play the game 40+ hours a week like it is a job.

sigh

So, why not give everyone everything for just simply logging in then?
It is not a job after all, thus everyone should just get everything from the start, right?

Yes Krall, lets give everyone everything and completely negate the entire reason to play what so ever. /sarcasm

Seriously, no one asked for, or even implied, that. Quit shoving words in other people’s mouths because you can’t comprehend the basic point being made.

This is exactly what people are asking for/ They want raids to be doable immediately upon hitting level 80 and getting exotic gear. This takes less than 30 hours of playing the game to get to this point.

Do you honestly think someone who just bought the game 2 weeks ago should be able to complete raids? Because the only thing that separates someone who bought the game 2 weeks ago from someone who bought the game 3 years ago is ascended gear, a solid guild, and experience.

It has already been established that the people in this thread think casual players should be able to beat raids, so there goes the experience part. It has already been said they should be able to pug them, so there goes the solid guild, and now people want it to be done in exotic gear.

So yes that is exactly what they are asking for, and it is absurd.

No one is asking to make it easier which is what both you and Krall are implying. Content can be done in a challenging way without requiring an additional tier of gear.

If they have the skill set, why the kitten does it matter when they started playing? Why does it bother you that joe schmoe picked up the game 2 weeks ago can raid because he’s just “good.” This kitten should have nothing to do with whether or not you have GEAR, rather whether or not you have SKILL.

SKILL > TIME!!!!

Ugh talk about lack of creativity.

“How do we make it harder George?”
“Uh… give the boss some one shot hits, up his HP, up his defense, and give them a new tier of gear to chase to compensate a tiny bit”

Please people. This kitten is WoW (and every clone since) all over again.

Lemme know when they add another tier above Ascended, than I can believe the bolded statement.

Until than, you are ridiculously overreacting.

Anet CLEARLY stated raids were going to be the endgame ppl were asking about. They said it a while ago in the HoT reveal that this was content made specifically for ENDGAME CHARACTERs.

Not for anyone to create a character and a week later, poof, they can now accomplish everything.

Its an MMORPG. There is grind in every MMORPG.

Deal with it or leave.

The only ppl whining about this are the ones that are hellbent on making sure they don’t have to do ANYTHING to get access to 100% of the content anet decides to create.

News flash, 90% of the things anet has added in this game for the past 3 years required little to no effort to do, to progress, etc etc.

You gonna seriously think they are gonna start making it where everything they add is going to require a grind now??? get kittening real.

You open world pve lovers are getting plenty in HoT.. anet is at least trying to give EVERY type of player what they want…. whether they be casual, hardcore, PvPers , WvWs, etc etc

Stop your bs whining and demanding anet create 100% content that you can access immediately.

They have, to a limited extent, told us that there won’t be a tier above ascended. So long as they hold to that stance and don’t change it, as they have their other views over the past 3 years.

However, the point is that the top tier of gear was exotic. Ascended came after, and we were told time and again that it wasn’t necessary for anything except fractals. Now, lo and behold, it looks like it might be required for raiding as well. So much for those assurances that it wasn’t necessary for anything except fractals.

Yes raids are one end game, but they could be that without the ascended requirement. Because now that supposedly optional gear is again being forced in our faces. So much for being optional right? How long before they simply balance the expansions as a whole around ascended armor? Still optional right?

I don’t mind grind. I’m well aware that it’s a necessary component of any MMO. That’s not the point here.

Oh, and just so you know. I HAVE ASCENDED GEAR. Technically speaking, I could be right there in line with the rest of you when the wings open. So assume some more.

Since when did raids becoming REQUIRED or FORCED onto every single player?

The entire kittening content known as RAIDS ARE OPTIONAL, THUS ASCENDED IS OPTIONAL.

Its not designed FOR 100% of the players to have IMMEDIATE ACCESS to.
There’s nothing WRONG with making content for players who have grinded and played a long time.

Anet took the stance of “if you wanna play and complete raids, you have to wear this tier of gear” Anet is allowed to make restrictions if they are waranted… which they perfectly as seeing how this is THEIR VISION OF ENDGAME….

They are only actually optional depending on how much story is actually tied to them, and how much that story matters to the greater scheme of things.

I did not state that raids are required. I did state that by them requiring ascended gear, the supposedly “optional” gear is again being forced into our faces. There is a difference.

As for ‘thier vision of endgame’ puhleeeeez. They are giving us raids because the traditional mmo base whined incessantly. They have given us a bit of their own spin on it, but even that is quite close to the standard raid set up (gear requirement, weekly lock outs, grindy prepare to play).

no way!??! anet is making a business decision to create content to attract NEW TYPES OF CUSTOMERS to the game?!!? WHO WOULD HAVE THOUGHT!?!?!?

Except that’s not what the game was billed as. There are numerous games out there for those types of players. Anet billed GW2 as something new, something different. Instead, they are simply turning it into another clone. One component at a time.

Unfortunately, GW2 will likely run into the same issue as all those other games. Those people that whined that wanted these things still won’t be happy because GW2 is not whatever ‘x’ other game they desire, and they’ll end up leaving anyway. We’ve seen it time and again with the other clones out there. I’m not sure if that just kittenes me off or makes me depressed, because I do love this game.

Then use logic
Why do you think anet is trying to attract those new types of customers??
TO INCREASE REVENUE. They are BUSINESS.
You think what the game was originally “billed on” was going to sustain them?? really??

That was the ORIGINAL selling point, sure.
But anet clearly doesn’t like the fact the population has been constantly dropping and their ORIGINAL IDEA is not being sustained, hence the work on an xpac/new types of content.

I’m well aware the Anet is a business. I regularly remind others of that fact when they kitten about the gem store.

There is no reason why what they originally billed the game as couldn’t sustain them. They just needed to come out with things to keep those people busy. Elite zones, more legendaries, more dungeons, paid expansions, yes maybe even raids. A new gear tier was never necessary.

GW1 proved a long while back that gear grind for stats wasn’t a necessity, and a lot of people came to GW2 because GW2 was supposed to continue that tradition. Yes, yes, we don’t have any type of significant gear grind (outside ascended), but how long before they panic again and throw in another tier to keep people busy despite saying they wouldn’t? That’s my concern.

Right now raids are balanced around ascended. Who’s to say the next seasons of living world won’t also be? Then after that, the next expansion now requires ascended just to do the open world content. Tada, ascended is no longer optional, and no longer limited to “optional end game” content. Now people are discontent, so they toss in another gear tier to keep people busy while the continue development and the process starts all over again.

It doesn’t matter that I have ascended. I can do all this kitten if I so choose. However, I don’t want to have to go through it all again in 10 or so months time just because some people aren’t happy chasing cosmetics and don’t know how to otherwise entertain themselves.

Yes, none of us can see the future, so don’t know what’s going to happen. But we can look back at Anet’s track record and grimace.

I have severe doubt that they can tune it that finely. The damage difference between Ascended trinkets+weapon+exotic armor and full ascended is what, 2%? If they tune it that finely, that will mean that they will be forcing a single, idealized group composition for the entire raid with everyone performing perfectly. If either execution is not absolutely perfect (talking both damage rotation, add control, boon managements) or you have sub-optimal party (even in full ascended) the event becomes undoable as variation between classes is way more than 2%. If they tune it so the WORST composition can complete it if all characters have full ascended, then idealized composition will do it in masterwork.

I expect that raids on release will be horribly overtuned and undoable, similar to the way Ragnaros was in vanilla WoW. Raid balance is extremely hard even for less dynamic combat system with much less class variation. Balancing raids for GW2 is going to be a nightmare. Aiming for a balance within 2% efficiency is something that is still quite far away IMO. The problem is made worse by the fact that players do not have tools to objectivly measure their performance (damage, boon removed, bar break, outgoing healing, whatever else).

Linken.6345:

I think you like everyone else that make these thread now mix up must be and should be.

Same with dungeons you should be in exotics but people can do it naked with just weapons

I’m ok with Raids being a bit easier if you’re in Ascended armor, but I’m leery of the way she phrased it.

Agemnon.4608:

Ascended does matter anyway. In WvW it can be the difference between almost downing someone or actually downing them.

In duels, sure, but dueling in WvW has never had any semblance of balance, nor is it particularly important overall. Your opponent might be juiced up on any of a number of really expensive buffs. You can still play WvW successfully without wearing full Ascended.

I agree that ascended should not be required in any part of the game. Not only is it bad for existing players who may or may not have full ascended for the raid as changing stats is expensive and nobody knows what stats work. But it essentially puts a HARD time gate on any new players getting into the game unless they rush getting ascended gear and they know what exactly they want in terms of stats. At the very least the time is a month and that is if the new player can even get the materials every day for it. Silk is particularly prohibitive.

And that is just armor and weapons. You need to do fractals and use Laurels for accessories/trinkets and you need to craft an ascended backpack which can take quite a while.

Lets not forget that you also need 500 crafting for each type of thing you want to make.

Kaiyanwan.8521:

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

SkiTz.4590:

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

SkiTz.4590:

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

SkiTz.4590:

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

ZudetGambeous.9573:

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

lordkrall.7241:

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

I think too many people forget this. Probably because many play the game 40+ hours a week like it is a job.

sigh

So, why not give everyone everything for just simply logging in then?
It is not a job after all, thus everyone should just get everything from the start, right?

Yes Krall, lets give everyone everything and completely negate the entire reason to play what so ever. /sarcasm

Seriously, no one asked for, or even implied, that. Quit shoving words in other people’s mouths because you can’t comprehend the basic point being made.

This is exactly what people are asking for/ They want raids to be doable immediately upon hitting level 80 and getting exotic gear. This takes less than 30 hours of playing the game to get to this point.

Do you honestly think someone who just bought the game 2 weeks ago should be able to complete raids? Because the only thing that separates someone who bought the game 2 weeks ago from someone who bought the game 3 years ago is ascended gear, a solid guild, and experience.

It has already been established that the people in this thread think casual players should be able to beat raids, so there goes the experience part. It has already been said they should be able to pug them, so there goes the solid guild, and now people want it to be done in exotic gear.

So yes that is exactly what they are asking for, and it is absurd.

No one is asking to make it easier which is what both you and Krall are implying. Content can be done in a challenging way without requiring an additional tier of gear.

If they have the skill set, why the kitten does it matter when they started playing? Why does it bother you that joe schmoe picked up the game 2 weeks ago can raid because he’s just “good.” This kitten should have nothing to do with whether or not you have GEAR, rather whether or not you have SKILL.

SKILL > TIME!!!!

Ugh talk about lack of creativity.

“How do we make it harder George?”
“Uh… give the boss some one shot hits, up his HP, up his defense, and give them a new tier of gear to chase to compensate a tiny bit”

Please people. This kitten is WoW (and every clone since) all over again.

Lemme know when they add another tier above Ascended, than I can believe the bolded statement.

Until than, you are ridiculously overreacting.

Anet CLEARLY stated raids were going to be the endgame ppl were asking about. They said it a while ago in the HoT reveal that this was content made specifically for ENDGAME CHARACTERs.

Not for anyone to create a character and a week later, poof, they can now accomplish everything.

Its an MMORPG. There is grind in every MMORPG.

Deal with it or leave.

The only ppl whining about this are the ones that are hellbent on making sure they don’t have to do ANYTHING to get access to 100% of the content anet decides to create.

News flash, 90% of the things anet has added in this game for the past 3 years required little to no effort to do, to progress, etc etc.

You gonna seriously think they are gonna start making it where everything they add is going to require a grind now??? get kittening real.

You open world pve lovers are getting plenty in HoT.. anet is at least trying to give EVERY type of player what they want…. whether they be casual, hardcore, PvPers , WvWs, etc etc

Stop your bs whining and demanding anet create 100% content that you can access immediately.

They have, to a limited extent, told us that there won’t be a tier above ascended. So long as they hold to that stance and don’t change it, as they have their other views over the past 3 years.

However, the point is that the top tier of gear was exotic. Ascended came after, and we were told time and again that it wasn’t necessary for anything except fractals. Now, lo and behold, it looks like it might be required for raiding as well. So much for those assurances that it wasn’t necessary for anything except fractals.

Yes raids are one end game, but they could be that without the ascended requirement. Because now that supposedly optional gear is again being forced in our faces. So much for being optional right? How long before they simply balance the expansions as a whole around ascended armor? Still optional right?

I don’t mind grind. I’m well aware that it’s a necessary component of any MMO. That’s not the point here.

Oh, and just so you know. I HAVE ASCENDED GEAR. Technically speaking, I could be right there in line with the rest of you when the wings open. So assume some more.

Since when did raids becoming REQUIRED or FORCED onto every single player?

The entire kittening content known as RAIDS ARE OPTIONAL, THUS ASCENDED IS OPTIONAL.

Its not designed FOR 100% of the players to have IMMEDIATE ACCESS to.
There’s nothing WRONG with making content for players who have grinded and played a long time.

Anet took the stance of “if you wanna play and complete raids, you have to wear this tier of gear” Anet is allowed to make restrictions if they are waranted… which they perfectly as seeing how this is THEIR VISION OF ENDGAME….

They are only actually optional depending on how much story is actually tied to them, and how much that story matters to the greater scheme of things.

I did not state that raids are required. I did state that by them requiring ascended gear, the supposedly “optional” gear is again being forced into our faces. There is a difference.

As for ‘thier vision of endgame’ puhleeeeez. They are giving us raids because the traditional mmo base whined incessantly. They have given us a bit of their own spin on it, but even that is quite close to the standard raid set up (gear requirement, weekly lock outs, grindy prepare to play).

no way!??! anet is making a business decision to create content to attract NEW TYPES OF CUSTOMERS to the game?!!? WHO WOULD HAVE THOUGHT!?!?!?

Except that’s not what the game was billed as. There are numerous games out there for those types of players. Anet billed GW2 as something new, something different. Instead, they are simply turning it into another clone. One component at a time.

Unfortunately, GW2 will likely run into the same issue as all those other games. Those people that whined that wanted these things still won’t be happy because GW2 is not whatever ‘x’ other game they desire, and they’ll end up leaving anyway. We’ve seen it time and again with the other clones out there. I’m not sure if that just kittenes me off or makes me depressed, because I do love this game.

Weclome to the Metrix ™!

This is another of these steps from ANet. Let’s see what the next shiny thing will be they promote and then forget about…

Lol

To be fair, they are giving fractal’s some love, so we can’t claim they forgot about that shiny.

But yeah… I don’t want to see the game become yet more of a wasteland of forgotten experimentation. Ugh.

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

SkiTz.4590:

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

SkiTz.4590:

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

SkiTz.4590:

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

SkiTz.4590:

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

ZudetGambeous.9573:

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

lordkrall.7241:

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

I think too many people forget this. Probably because many play the game 40+ hours a week like it is a job.

sigh

So, why not give everyone everything for just simply logging in then?
It is not a job after all, thus everyone should just get everything from the start, right?

Yes Krall, lets give everyone everything and completely negate the entire reason to play what so ever. /sarcasm

Seriously, no one asked for, or even implied, that. Quit shoving words in other people’s mouths because you can’t comprehend the basic point being made.

This is exactly what people are asking for/ They want raids to be doable immediately upon hitting level 80 and getting exotic gear. This takes less than 30 hours of playing the game to get to this point.

Do you honestly think someone who just bought the game 2 weeks ago should be able to complete raids? Because the only thing that separates someone who bought the game 2 weeks ago from someone who bought the game 3 years ago is ascended gear, a solid guild, and experience.

It has already been established that the people in this thread think casual players should be able to beat raids, so there goes the experience part. It has already been said they should be able to pug them, so there goes the solid guild, and now people want it to be done in exotic gear.

So yes that is exactly what they are asking for, and it is absurd.

No one is asking to make it easier which is what both you and Krall are implying. Content can be done in a challenging way without requiring an additional tier of gear.

If they have the skill set, why the kitten does it matter when they started playing? Why does it bother you that joe schmoe picked up the game 2 weeks ago can raid because he’s just “good.” This kitten should have nothing to do with whether or not you have GEAR, rather whether or not you have SKILL.

SKILL > TIME!!!!

Ugh talk about lack of creativity.

“How do we make it harder George?”
“Uh… give the boss some one shot hits, up his HP, up his defense, and give them a new tier of gear to chase to compensate a tiny bit”

Please people. This kitten is WoW (and every clone since) all over again.

Lemme know when they add another tier above Ascended, than I can believe the bolded statement.

Until than, you are ridiculously overreacting.

Anet CLEARLY stated raids were going to be the endgame ppl were asking about. They said it a while ago in the HoT reveal that this was content made specifically for ENDGAME CHARACTERs.

Not for anyone to create a character and a week later, poof, they can now accomplish everything.

Its an MMORPG. There is grind in every MMORPG.

Deal with it or leave.

The only ppl whining about this are the ones that are hellbent on making sure they don’t have to do ANYTHING to get access to 100% of the content anet decides to create.

News flash, 90% of the things anet has added in this game for the past 3 years required little to no effort to do, to progress, etc etc.

You gonna seriously think they are gonna start making it where everything they add is going to require a grind now??? get kittening real.

You open world pve lovers are getting plenty in HoT.. anet is at least trying to give EVERY type of player what they want…. whether they be casual, hardcore, PvPers , WvWs, etc etc

Stop your bs whining and demanding anet create 100% content that you can access immediately.

They have, to a limited extent, told us that there won’t be a tier above ascended. So long as they hold to that stance and don’t change it, as they have their other views over the past 3 years.

However, the point is that the top tier of gear was exotic. Ascended came after, and we were told time and again that it wasn’t necessary for anything except fractals. Now, lo and behold, it looks like it might be required for raiding as well. So much for those assurances that it wasn’t necessary for anything except fractals.

Yes raids are one end game, but they could be that without the ascended requirement. Because now that supposedly optional gear is again being forced in our faces. So much for being optional right? How long before they simply balance the expansions as a whole around ascended armor? Still optional right?

I don’t mind grind. I’m well aware that it’s a necessary component of any MMO. That’s not the point here.

Oh, and just so you know. I HAVE ASCENDED GEAR. Technically speaking, I could be right there in line with the rest of you when the wings open. So assume some more.

Since when did raids becoming REQUIRED or FORCED onto every single player?

The entire kittening content known as RAIDS ARE OPTIONAL, THUS ASCENDED IS OPTIONAL.

Its not designed FOR 100% of the players to have IMMEDIATE ACCESS to.
There’s nothing WRONG with making content for players who have grinded and played a long time.

Anet took the stance of “if you wanna play and complete raids, you have to wear this tier of gear” Anet is allowed to make restrictions if they are waranted… which they perfectly as seeing how this is THEIR VISION OF ENDGAME….

They are only actually optional depending on how much story is actually tied to them, and how much that story matters to the greater scheme of things.

I did not state that raids are required. I did state that by them requiring ascended gear, the supposedly “optional” gear is again being forced into our faces. There is a difference.

As for ‘thier vision of endgame’ puhleeeeez. They are giving us raids because the traditional mmo base whined incessantly. They have given us a bit of their own spin on it, but even that is quite close to the standard raid set up (gear requirement, weekly lock outs, grindy prepare to play).

no way!??! anet is making a business decision to create content to attract NEW TYPES OF CUSTOMERS to the game?!!? WHO WOULD HAVE THOUGHT!?!?!?

Except that’s not what the game was billed as. There are numerous games out there for those types of players. Anet billed GW2 as something new, something different. Instead, they are simply turning it into another clone. One component at a time.

Unfortunately, GW2 will likely run into the same issue as all those other games. Those people that whined that wanted these things still won’t be happy because GW2 is not whatever ‘x’ other game they desire, and they’ll end up leaving anyway. We’ve seen it time and again with the other clones out there. I’m not sure if that just kittenes me off or makes me depressed, because I do love this game.

Then use logic
Why do you think anet is trying to attract those new types of customers??
TO INCREASE REVENUE. They are BUSINESS.
You think what the game was originally “billed on” was going to sustain them?? really??

That was the ORIGINAL selling point, sure.
But anet clearly doesn’t like the fact the population has been constantly dropping and their ORIGINAL IDEA is not being sustained, hence the work on an xpac/new types of content.

I’m well aware the Anet is a business. I regularly remind others of that fact when they kitten about the gem store.

There is no reason why what they originally billed the game as couldn’t sustain them. They just needed to come out with things to keep those people busy. Elite zones, more legendaries, more dungeons, paid expansions, yes maybe even raids. A new gear tier was never necessary.

GW1 proved a long while back that gear grind for stats wasn’t a necessity, and a lot of people came to GW2 because GW2 was supposed to continue that tradition. Yes, yes, we don’t have any type of significant gear grind (outside ascended), but how long before they panic again and throw in another tier to keep people busy despite saying they wouldn’t? That’s my concern.

Right now raids are balanced around ascended. Who’s to say the next seasons of living world won’t also be? Then after that, the next expansion now requires ascended just to do the open world content. Tada, ascended is no longer optional, and no longer limited to “optional end game” content. Now people are discontent, so they toss in another gear tier to keep people busy while the continue development and the process starts all over again.

It doesn’t matter that I have ascended. I can do all this kitten if I so choose. However, I don’t want to have to go through it all again in 10 or so months time just because some people aren’t happy chasing cosmetics and don’t know how to otherwise entertain themselves.

Yes, none of us can see the future, so don’t know what’s going to happen. But we can look back at Anet’s track record and grimace.

They did it once in 3 kittening years (and it was the right call, this game needed it)
How is that a track record.

In the years ascended has been out, how many kitten things have been required for it ? ONE (fractals)… and now here you are spewing off crap like “maybe the next LS or personal story steps might require ascended”…. get a grip

If they do it again in the next couple years, lemme know, until than, all your logic is based on false assumption and its completely pointless to speculate about it.

I knew this would happen. I have a set of Ascended armor just waiting to be crafted once I see what the best Thief stats are.

Zania.8461:

I have severe doubt that they can tune it that finely. The damage difference between Ascended trinkets+weapon+exotic armor and full ascended is what, 2%? If they tune it that finely, that will mean that they will be forcing a single, idealized group composition for the entire raid with everyone performing perfectly. If either execution is not absolutely perfect (talking both damage rotation, add control, boon managements) or you have sub-optimal party (even in full ascended) the event becomes undoable as variation between classes is way more than 2%. If they tune it so the WORST composition can complete it if all characters have full ascended, then idealized composition will do it in masterwork.

This is basically why the announcement can’t work. Ascended weapons+ trinkets is only about 1.7% less dps on a full zerk build than full ascended is. That 1.7% difference is less than the difference you’d have in any two fights due to random crits/procs, and way smaller than the difference in dps between different classes, which, if comparing, say, elementalists with mesmers or necromancers, can be upwards of 30%.

I don’t think it’s too big of a deal that they are balancing around ascended gear for the raid. Based on previous balance, I imagine it will certainly be possible with at least a mix of exotic/ascended. And for that ascended, you can just get the trinkets and maybe the weapon(s). And if the last boss is intended for you to have all ascended (and if that turns out to actually be the case), if the increase in drop rate of the ascended weapons/armor from previous raid bosses, it shouldn’t be that hard to get decked out, especially since you can swap the stats.

However, if multiple ascended sets are necessary for different encounters that require different builds, I think that may very well be a problem as it is a much harsher gate to the content. Hopefully, that won’t be the case. I also hope they don’t have an alternative to Agony as the gate/reason for requiring full ascended gear. If it is just due to the encounters themselves, I’m sure they can still be overcome with proper skill and coordination (as well as a certain, not quite so high, threshold of gear, of course).

I have come from the year 2012 to laugh at each an every single person who would drive by threads with “You don’t NEED ascended gear.”

Ah ha.

SkiTz.4590:

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

SkiTz.4590:

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

SkiTz.4590:

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

SkiTz.4590:

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

SkiTz.4590:

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

ZudetGambeous.9573:

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

lordkrall.7241:

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

I think too many people forget this. Probably because many play the game 40+ hours a week like it is a job.

sigh

So, why not give everyone everything for just simply logging in then?
It is not a job after all, thus everyone should just get everything from the start, right?

Yes Krall, lets give everyone everything and completely negate the entire reason to play what so ever. /sarcasm

Seriously, no one asked for, or even implied, that. Quit shoving words in other people’s mouths because you can’t comprehend the basic point being made.

This is exactly what people are asking for/ They want raids to be doable immediately upon hitting level 80 and getting exotic gear. This takes less than 30 hours of playing the game to get to this point.

Do you honestly think someone who just bought the game 2 weeks ago should be able to complete raids? Because the only thing that separates someone who bought the game 2 weeks ago from someone who bought the game 3 years ago is ascended gear, a solid guild, and experience.

It has already been established that the people in this thread think casual players should be able to beat raids, so there goes the experience part. It has already been said they should be able to pug them, so there goes the solid guild, and now people want it to be done in exotic gear.

So yes that is exactly what they are asking for, and it is absurd.

No one is asking to make it easier which is what both you and Krall are implying. Content can be done in a challenging way without requiring an additional tier of gear.

If they have the skill set, why the kitten does it matter when they started playing? Why does it bother you that joe schmoe picked up the game 2 weeks ago can raid because he’s just “good.” This kitten should have nothing to do with whether or not you have GEAR, rather whether or not you have SKILL.

SKILL > TIME!!!!

Ugh talk about lack of creativity.

“How do we make it harder George?”
“Uh… give the boss some one shot hits, up his HP, up his defense, and give them a new tier of gear to chase to compensate a tiny bit”

Please people. This kitten is WoW (and every clone since) all over again.

Lemme know when they add another tier above Ascended, than I can believe the bolded statement.

Until than, you are ridiculously overreacting.

Anet CLEARLY stated raids were going to be the endgame ppl were asking about. They said it a while ago in the HoT reveal that this was content made specifically for ENDGAME CHARACTERs.

Not for anyone to create a character and a week later, poof, they can now accomplish everything.

Its an MMORPG. There is grind in every MMORPG.

Deal with it or leave.

The only ppl whining about this are the ones that are hellbent on making sure they don’t have to do ANYTHING to get access to 100% of the content anet decides to create.

News flash, 90% of the things anet has added in this game for the past 3 years required little to no effort to do, to progress, etc etc.

You gonna seriously think they are gonna start making it where everything they add is going to require a grind now??? get kittening real.

You open world pve lovers are getting plenty in HoT.. anet is at least trying to give EVERY type of player what they want…. whether they be casual, hardcore, PvPers , WvWs, etc etc

Stop your bs whining and demanding anet create 100% content that you can access immediately.

They have, to a limited extent, told us that there won’t be a tier above ascended. So long as they hold to that stance and don’t change it, as they have their other views over the past 3 years.

However, the point is that the top tier of gear was exotic. Ascended came after, and we were told time and again that it wasn’t necessary for anything except fractals. Now, lo and behold, it looks like it might be required for raiding as well. So much for those assurances that it wasn’t necessary for anything except fractals.

Yes raids are one end game, but they could be that without the ascended requirement. Because now that supposedly optional gear is again being forced in our faces. So much for being optional right? How long before they simply balance the expansions as a whole around ascended armor? Still optional right?

I don’t mind grind. I’m well aware that it’s a necessary component of any MMO. That’s not the point here.

Oh, and just so you know. I HAVE ASCENDED GEAR. Technically speaking, I could be right there in line with the rest of you when the wings open. So assume some more.

Since when did raids becoming REQUIRED or FORCED onto every single player?

The entire kittening content known as RAIDS ARE OPTIONAL, THUS ASCENDED IS OPTIONAL.

Its not designed FOR 100% of the players to have IMMEDIATE ACCESS to.
There’s nothing WRONG with making content for players who have grinded and played a long time.

Anet took the stance of “if you wanna play and complete raids, you have to wear this tier of gear” Anet is allowed to make restrictions if they are waranted… which they perfectly as seeing how this is THEIR VISION OF ENDGAME….

They are only actually optional depending on how much story is actually tied to them, and how much that story matters to the greater scheme of things.

I did not state that raids are required. I did state that by them requiring ascended gear, the supposedly “optional” gear is again being forced into our faces. There is a difference.

As for ‘thier vision of endgame’ puhleeeeez. They are giving us raids because the traditional mmo base whined incessantly. They have given us a bit of their own spin on it, but even that is quite close to the standard raid set up (gear requirement, weekly lock outs, grindy prepare to play).

no way!??! anet is making a business decision to create content to attract NEW TYPES OF CUSTOMERS to the game?!!? WHO WOULD HAVE THOUGHT!?!?!?

Except that’s not what the game was billed as. There are numerous games out there for those types of players. Anet billed GW2 as something new, something different. Instead, they are simply turning it into another clone. One component at a time.

Unfortunately, GW2 will likely run into the same issue as all those other games. Those people that whined that wanted these things still won’t be happy because GW2 is not whatever ‘x’ other game they desire, and they’ll end up leaving anyway. We’ve seen it time and again with the other clones out there. I’m not sure if that just kittenes me off or makes me depressed, because I do love this game.

Then use logic
Why do you think anet is trying to attract those new types of customers??
TO INCREASE REVENUE. They are BUSINESS.
You think what the game was originally “billed on” was going to sustain them?? really??

That was the ORIGINAL selling point, sure.
But anet clearly doesn’t like the fact the population has been constantly dropping and their ORIGINAL IDEA is not being sustained, hence the work on an xpac/new types of content.

I’m well aware the Anet is a business. I regularly remind others of that fact when they kitten about the gem store.

There is no reason why what they originally billed the game as couldn’t sustain them. They just needed to come out with things to keep those people busy. Elite zones, more legendaries, more dungeons, paid expansions, yes maybe even raids. A new gear tier was never necessary.

GW1 proved a long while back that gear grind for stats wasn’t a necessity, and a lot of people came to GW2 because GW2 was supposed to continue that tradition. Yes, yes, we don’t have any type of significant gear grind (outside ascended), but how long before they panic again and throw in another tier to keep people busy despite saying they wouldn’t? That’s my concern.

Right now raids are balanced around ascended. Who’s to say the next seasons of living world won’t also be? Then after that, the next expansion now requires ascended just to do the open world content. Tada, ascended is no longer optional, and no longer limited to “optional end game” content. Now people are discontent, so they toss in another gear tier to keep people busy while the continue development and the process starts all over again.

It doesn’t matter that I have ascended. I can do all this kitten if I so choose. However, I don’t want to have to go through it all again in 10 or so months time just because some people aren’t happy chasing cosmetics and don’t know how to otherwise entertain themselves.

Yes, none of us can see the future, so don’t know what’s going to happen. But we can look back at Anet’s track record and grimace.

They did it once in 3 kittening years (and it was the right call, this game needed it)
How is that a track record.

If they do it again in the next couple years, lemme know, until than, all your logic is based on false assumption and its completely pointless to speculate about it.

No, it wasn’t needed. What they should have done was add infusion slots to exotic armor and made infusions the grind. At which point they could have done more with infusions in general.

Anet has a track record of some less than stellar decisions, ascended being just one. How do we know they were less than stellar decisions? Uhm, how many times have they redone certain things?

Terra.8571:

But simply basing the encounter’s so that the bosses/ mobs do damage against players assuming they had the BiS gear available, for the hardest content in game, seems logical.

Ascended acquisition was so far balanced around it not being required for any content beyond fractals – and even fractals weren’t balanced around ascended stats, merely around AR.
If the above doesn’t hold true, then all the acquisition methods need to be rebalanced in order to make that tier more easily obtainable.

I’m skeptical that the difficulty will be that finely tuned, but I don’t like the sentiment of it. For a lot of people, that would either keep them out of raids, or restrict them to just doing it on their main, not exotic-geared alts.

Even on someone’s main character, a lot of people would be locked into one build. Stat-swappable Legendary armor will help loosen up builds, but I doubt that’ll be cheap. (And if it requires raids, there’s the cart, then the horse.)

Seera.5916:

Rabe.2456:

Are we talking about Agony Resistance or what’s the big deal about Ascended Gear? I don’t get it. If you tell me 90 main stat points make a real difference then I wonder what’s going on with the design.

Well, 90 may not be a lot. But what about 900 when multiply that across the full group needed for raids? 900 may be a noticeable difference.

That only applies to offensive stats, but they wanted to encourage us to invest into defensive stats, as far as I remember.

Astralporing.1957:

Terra.8571:

But simply basing the encounter’s so that the bosses/ mobs do damage against players assuming they had the BiS gear available, for the hardest content in game, seems logical.

Ascended acquisition was so far balanced around it not being required for any content beyond fractals – and even fractals weren’t balanced around ascended stats, merely around AR.
If the above doesn’t hold true, then all the acquisition methods need to be rebalanced in order to make that tier more easily obtainable.

Ascended gear is very easy obtainable, not sure what do u mean

Explain to me what new gear are they requiring for raids?

Ascended gear has been around for over a year, they said there won’t be anything above it (legendary gear is same stat values).

So what grind are they requiring? The grind that’s been in the game already? The part you refuse to play?

Raid success or failure will depend on how finely tuned they are, if they take into assumption that only best geared people are attempting the boss, then they can have better balance.

I don’t understand the qq, because nothing MORE has been asked of anyone. Only to obtain what is already there for you to do so.

This is essentially breaking up the veteran and newbie gw2 communities.

I have recently created a guild with my friends and got several new players joining. With FULL ascended requirement, I will never be able to raid together with these guys.

If this becomes reality, it would be the worst decision ever.

Rabe.2456:

Seera.5916:

Rabe.2456:

Are we talking about Agony Resistance or what’s the big deal about Ascended Gear? I don’t get it. If you tell me 90 main stat points make a real difference then I wonder what’s going on with the design.

Well, 90 may not be a lot. But what about 900 when multiply that across the full group needed for raids? 900 may be a noticeable difference.

That only applies to offensive stats, but they wanted to encourage us to invest into defensive stats, as far as I remember.

maybe the masteries will tie into ascended gear?? might give them a big boost in raids or certain encounters, etc…?

This is what raiding is all about, locking out large portions of the player base so the elite can get their ego fix.

Rabe.2456:

Seera.5916:

Rabe.2456:

Are we talking about Agony Resistance or what’s the big deal about Ascended Gear? I don’t get it. If you tell me 90 main stat points make a real difference then I wonder what’s going on with the design.

Well, 90 may not be a lot. But what about 900 when multiply that across the full group needed for raids? 900 may be a noticeable difference.

That only applies to offensive stats, but they wanted to encourage us to invest into defensive stats, as far as I remember.

Also the math isn’t cumulative like that. It essentially can’t be the stat difference, it’s not significant.

Agony is most likely the way they’re going to gate it, although I expect OUTRAGE.

The other possibility is that “Ascended Gear Required” is a PR lie to make raids sound more hardkore.

SkiTz.4590:

You honestly believe anets new endgame content, “most challenging content” should require basic exotics or the actual endgame gear (ascended)???

This content was not created for someone to simply hit 80 and bam, waltz right into the raid in their rares/exotics and complete it like it was nothing.

What was the endgame prior to raids? Fractals. What did high lvl fractals require? ascended.

Its only logical that anything tabbed by anet as “endgame” uses the endgame armor/weapons……

People were doing Fractals in Exotics forever. Just because the folks farming fractals today are in all ascended, doesn’t mean it is required. It is just the fastest way to complete a run.

Of course y’all are blowing by the fact she said the last wing… Which won’t be out any time soon after the expansion. While raiding you’ll likely be getting stuff you can use to craft Ascended gear.. and oh yea you’ll be getting things to craft legendary gear as well. So seriously this isn’t an issue.

You honestly believe anets new endgame content, “most challenging content” should require basic exotics or the actual endgame gear (ascended)???

Yeah because the extra stats from ascended can actually be felt instead of feeling like I’m just in rares or masterworks.

It’s probably worth noting that this was just a tweet. That’s not the same as them writing a blog post and saying “Raids are meant to push you to your very limit! Only those with full ascended stats need apply!”

I’m still wary about it, but, you know, perspective. If we want developers to be able to speak off-the-cuff like that, we need to take what they say with a little grain of salt. We won’t ultimately know until raids are available, and then we can get up in arms about how they’re too difficult.

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

SkiTz.4590:

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

SkiTz.4590:

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

SkiTz.4590:

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

SkiTz.4590:

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

SkiTz.4590:

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

ZudetGambeous.9573:

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

lordkrall.7241:

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

I think too many people forget this. Probably because many play the game 40+ hours a week like it is a job.

sigh

So, why not give everyone everything for just simply logging in then?
It is not a job after all, thus everyone should just get everything from the start, right?

Yes Krall, lets give everyone everything and completely negate the entire reason to play what so ever. /sarcasm

Seriously, no one asked for, or even implied, that. Quit shoving words in other people’s mouths because you can’t comprehend the basic point being made.

This is exactly what people are asking for/ They want raids to be doable immediately upon hitting level 80 and getting exotic gear. This takes less than 30 hours of playing the game to get to this point.

Do you honestly think someone who just bought the game 2 weeks ago should be able to complete raids? Because the only thing that separates someone who bought the game 2 weeks ago from someone who bought the game 3 years ago is ascended gear, a solid guild, and experience.

It has already been established that the people in this thread think casual players should be able to beat raids, so there goes the experience part. It has already been said they should be able to pug them, so there goes the solid guild, and now people want it to be done in exotic gear.

So yes that is exactly what they are asking for, and it is absurd.

No one is asking to make it easier which is what both you and Krall are implying. Content can be done in a challenging way without requiring an additional tier of gear.

If they have the skill set, why the kitten does it matter when they started playing? Why does it bother you that joe schmoe picked up the game 2 weeks ago can raid because he’s just “good.” This kitten should have nothing to do with whether or not you have GEAR, rather whether or not you have SKILL.

SKILL > TIME!!!!

Ugh talk about lack of creativity.

“How do we make it harder George?”
“Uh… give the boss some one shot hits, up his HP, up his defense, and give them a new tier of gear to chase to compensate a tiny bit”

Please people. This kitten is WoW (and every clone since) all over again.

Lemme know when they add another tier above Ascended, than I can believe the bolded statement.

Until than, you are ridiculously overreacting.

Anet CLEARLY stated raids were going to be the endgame ppl were asking about. They said it a while ago in the HoT reveal that this was content made specifically for ENDGAME CHARACTERs.

Not for anyone to create a character and a week later, poof, they can now accomplish everything.

Its an MMORPG. There is grind in every MMORPG.

Deal with it or leave.

The only ppl whining about this are the ones that are hellbent on making sure they don’t have to do ANYTHING to get access to 100% of the content anet decides to create.

News flash, 90% of the things anet has added in this game for the past 3 years required little to no effort to do, to progress, etc etc.

You gonna seriously think they are gonna start making it where everything they add is going to require a grind now??? get kittening real.

You open world pve lovers are getting plenty in HoT.. anet is at least trying to give EVERY type of player what they want…. whether they be casual, hardcore, PvPers , WvWs, etc etc

Stop your bs whining and demanding anet create 100% content that you can access immediately.

They have, to a limited extent, told us that there won’t be a tier above ascended. So long as they hold to that stance and don’t change it, as they have their other views over the past 3 years.

However, the point is that the top tier of gear was exotic. Ascended came after, and we were told time and again that it wasn’t necessary for anything except fractals. Now, lo and behold, it looks like it might be required for raiding as well. So much for those assurances that it wasn’t necessary for anything except fractals.

Yes raids are one end game, but they could be that without the ascended requirement. Because now that supposedly optional gear is again being forced in our faces. So much for being optional right? How long before they simply balance the expansions as a whole around ascended armor? Still optional right?

I don’t mind grind. I’m well aware that it’s a necessary component of any MMO. That’s not the point here.

Oh, and just so you know. I HAVE ASCENDED GEAR. Technically speaking, I could be right there in line with the rest of you when the wings open. So assume some more.

Since when did raids becoming REQUIRED or FORCED onto every single player?

The entire kittening content known as RAIDS ARE OPTIONAL, THUS ASCENDED IS OPTIONAL.

Its not designed FOR 100% of the players to have IMMEDIATE ACCESS to.
There’s nothing WRONG with making content for players who have grinded and played a long time.

Anet took the stance of “if you wanna play and complete raids, you have to wear this tier of gear” Anet is allowed to make restrictions if they are waranted… which they perfectly as seeing how this is THEIR VISION OF ENDGAME….

They are only actually optional depending on how much story is actually tied to them, and how much that story matters to the greater scheme of things.

I did not state that raids are required. I did state that by them requiring ascended gear, the supposedly “optional” gear is again being forced into our faces. There is a difference.

As for ‘thier vision of endgame’ puhleeeeez. They are giving us raids because the traditional mmo base whined incessantly. They have given us a bit of their own spin on it, but even that is quite close to the standard raid set up (gear requirement, weekly lock outs, grindy prepare to play).

no way!??! anet is making a business decision to create content to attract NEW TYPES OF CUSTOMERS to the game?!!? WHO WOULD HAVE THOUGHT!?!?!?

Except that’s not what the game was billed as. There are numerous games out there for those types of players. Anet billed GW2 as something new, something different. Instead, they are simply turning it into another clone. One component at a time.

Unfortunately, GW2 will likely run into the same issue as all those other games. Those people that whined that wanted these things still won’t be happy because GW2 is not whatever ‘x’ other game they desire, and they’ll end up leaving anyway. We’ve seen it time and again with the other clones out there. I’m not sure if that just kittenes me off or makes me depressed, because I do love this game.

Then use logic
Why do you think anet is trying to attract those new types of customers??
TO INCREASE REVENUE. They are BUSINESS.
You think what the game was originally “billed on” was going to sustain them?? really??

That was the ORIGINAL selling point, sure.
But anet clearly doesn’t like the fact the population has been constantly dropping and their ORIGINAL IDEA is not being sustained, hence the work on an xpac/new types of content.

I’m well aware the Anet is a business. I regularly remind others of that fact when they kitten about the gem store.

There is no reason why what they originally billed the game as couldn’t sustain them. They just needed to come out with things to keep those people busy. Elite zones, more legendaries, more dungeons, paid expansions, yes maybe even raids. A new gear tier was never necessary.

GW1 proved a long while back that gear grind for stats wasn’t a necessity, and a lot of people came to GW2 because GW2 was supposed to continue that tradition. Yes, yes, we don’t have any type of significant gear grind (outside ascended), but how long before they panic again and throw in another tier to keep people busy despite saying they wouldn’t? That’s my concern.

Right now raids are balanced around ascended. Who’s to say the next seasons of living world won’t also be? Then after that, the next expansion now requires ascended just to do the open world content. Tada, ascended is no longer optional, and no longer limited to “optional end game” content. Now people are discontent, so they toss in another gear tier to keep people busy while the continue development and the process starts all over again.

It doesn’t matter that I have ascended. I can do all this kitten if I so choose. However, I don’t want to have to go through it all again in 10 or so months time just because some people aren’t happy chasing cosmetics and don’t know how to otherwise entertain themselves.

Yes, none of us can see the future, so don’t know what’s going to happen. But we can look back at Anet’s track record and grimace.

They did it once in 3 kittening years (and it was the right call, this game needed it)
How is that a track record.

If they do it again in the next couple years, lemme know, until than, all your logic is based on false assumption and its completely pointless to speculate about it.

No, it wasn’t needed. What they should have done was add infusion slots to exotic armor and made infusions the grind. At which point they could have done more with infusions in general.

Anet has a track record of some less than stellar decisions, ascended being just one. How do we know they were less than stellar decisions? Uhm, how many times have they redone certain things?

See thats your opinion and one of the problems with your logic…. you’re constantly just saying

“I believe anet is wrong and probably headed in the wrong direction. I’m right and know better than they do” – If your so brilliant at decision making, go for anet and make a better game.

As of right now, until they introduce a tier above ascended or make ascended the main requirement for ALL CONTENT they plan on releasing, you have no reason to complain. You are just being as pessimistic as possible

Raids should require fully ascended geared players from the start. It’s honestly not hard to get, I made it in less than a month back when gold wasn’t easy with the methods now it could be done even faster. Anyone having a cry about it is just lazy af. It’s “End game” suck it up and make your ascended.

And I still remember Colin said in the announcement that GW2 should be all about playing the challenging content itself rather than setting a high requirement you need to grind for even before you start.

And now this? Such irony. Why should players even attempt this knowing it is impossible to do without gear grind?

Sleepcoma.9487:

SkiTz.4590:

You honestly believe anets new endgame content, “most challenging content” should require basic exotics or the actual endgame gear (ascended)???

This content was not created for someone to simply hit 80 and bam, waltz right into the raid in their rares/exotics and complete it like it was nothing.

What was the endgame prior to raids? Fractals. What did high lvl fractals require? ascended.

Its only logical that anything tabbed by anet as “endgame” uses the endgame armor/weapons……

People were doing Fractals in Exotics forever. Just because the folks farming fractals today are in all ascended, doesn’t mean it is required. It is just the fastest way to complete a run.

Actually, ascended armor is absolutely required for Fractals because of agony. There are ways to get around needing full ascended armor buy slotting really high-valued agony resistance infusions in gear (like +15 AR), but for the most part it is required past level 9 fractals.

Exciton.8942:

And I still remember Colin said in the announcement that GW2 should be all about playing the challenging content itself rather than setting a high requirement you need to grind for even before you start.

And now this? Such irony. Why should players even attempt this knowing it is impossible to do without gear grind?

Also if you have a non-meta statset for ascended you’ll need to start from square one even if you wanna raid.