To be honest I do not agree with this. Don’t get me wrong, “grinding” is one thing I truly dislike, but why don’t you see this from the perspective of difficulty? Why do you expect, or even want, players to go directly into Raids?
Because Colin seemed pretty adamant on the idea of “no attuning?”
You are talking about a “gate” required for players before they enter the Raid. But do you honestly believe that players who haven’t done Fractals / Dungeons will have any luck in Raids?
Sure, why not? If they have general gaming skill and can pick up the new tactics, I’m sure there are players who could become top-class at the raid in a few attempts even if they never set foot in Fractals.
If we are to believe that Raids will be much harder than any other current content, then shouldn’t everyone spend at least a month running the lower difficulty instanced content of the game?
No?
“If you spent as much time working on [some task] as
you spend complaining about it on the forums, you’d be
done by now.”
In my opinion, it shouldnt take a month of grinding or time gates to get be ready for raids.
To be honest I do not agree with this. Don’t get me wrong, “grinding” is one thing I truly dislike, but why don’t you see this from the perspective of difficulty? Why do you expect, or even want, players to go directly into Raids?
You are talking about a “gate” required for players before they enter the Raid. But do you honestly believe that players who haven’t done Fractals / Dungeons will have any luck in Raids? Would you really want someone to come with you in the raid that hasn’t ever run a Dungeon or is only at level 8 in Fractals? Those things alone mean his experience in GW2 instanced content is very limited, so their ability to help in the Raid will also be severely limited.
If we are to believe that Raids will be much harder than any other current content, then shouldn’t everyone spend at least a month running the lower difficulty instanced content of the game? Before trying the Raid? And if you actually spend some time in Fractals, chances are you will get a lot of your Ascended items already.
Leaving aside whether there will be any kind of gate imposed by ANet or by players, why do I not want one? Because 80% or more of the demands that ANet add tanking and/or healing to the meta was due to players not wanting to take the time to make an LFG seeking players who wanted the same thing. If the game is going to cater to demands for accessibility, it should cater to such demands across the board.
Also, one of the arguments in favor of Ascended in the first place is that obtaining it has nothing to do with difficulty. As that is not expected to change, the perspective of difficulty has no place in the discussion. Now, if you want to discuss from the perspective of tedium, go right ahead.
If ascended had been available at release, would people still be having complaints about it?
Rings and back items were introduced on 11/15/12.
Amulets were introduced on 1/28/13.
Accessories were introduced on 2/26/13.
Weapons were introduced on 9/3/13.
Armor was introduced on 12/10/13.
It’s been a little over two years since ascended weapons were released and almost the same since armor. Had Anet released all ascended when the game was released, and then two years later they released HoT with raids, would you all still be complaining about ascended?
If ascended had been available at release, would people still be having complaints about it?
There would probably have been less complaint, but there still would have been some level of demand that the costs associated in them would be reduced. See, a lot of people over the past few years didn’t complain too loudly about the costs because they understood that the armor was entirely unnecessary in the existing content. The only people that actually needed it were the handful that would run high level Fractals, and they were gluttons for punishment anyways or they wouldn’t be running high level Fractals. But now they are being promoted as something semi-necessary for one of the major features of HoT, so people care more.
“If you spent as much time working on [some task] as
you spend complaining about it on the forums, you’d be
done by now.”
If ascended had been available at release, would people still be having complaints about it?
There would probably have been less complaint, but there still would have been some level of demand that the costs associated in them would be reduced. See, a lot of people over the past few years didn’t complain too loudly about the costs because they understood that the armor was entirely unnecessary in the existing content. The only people that actually needed it were the handful that would run high level Fractals, and they were gluttons for punishment anyways or they wouldn’t be running high level Fractals. But now they are being promoted as something semi-necessary for one of the major features of HoT, so people care more.
You can’t run before you can walk yo! High level fractals are going to be easy comparing to raids. If realize that ascended armors are necessary for fractals then you should have realized that it would be necessary for raids and there is nothing wrong with that.
You can’t run before you can walk yo! High level fractals are going to be easy comparing to raids.
Different functions though. And if raids really are too hard, and if players are required to participate in them to earn Legendary Armor, then there will be demands that the difficulty be lowered You can’t eat your cake and have it too, if you want raids to be the only place to earn Legendary armor then they need to be easy enough that everyone can do it, right?
If realize that ascended armors are necessary for fractals then you should have realized that it would be necessary for raids and there is nothing wrong with that.
Yeah, but raids weren’t even a thing that the game was going to have until a few months ago.
“If you spent as much time working on [some task] as
you spend complaining about it on the forums, you’d be
done by now.”
Different functions though. And if raids really are too hard, and if players are required to participate in them to earn Legendary Armor, then there will be demands that the difficulty be lowered You can’t eat your cake and have it too, if you want raids to be the only place to earn Legendary armor then they need to be easy enough that everyone can do it, right?
Again, if a player doesn’t do the proper content – regardless of reason -, that player doesn’t deserve the appropriate corresponding reward, there is nothing wrong with that. I realize that is a cold but necessarily fair observation to the game and to life in general. You don’t do it, you don’t earn it. Period.
Again, if a player doesn’t do the proper content – regardless of reason -, that player doesn’t deserve the appropriate corresponding reward, there is nothing wrong with that.
And again, both the “proper content” and “appropriate reward” are entirely up to the whims of ANet, so if players do not like the existing system, like say those players that did not feel that Exotic Armor was good enough to represent “the best” so they pushed for Ascended, if ANet changes their mind, then they change their mind.
You don’t do it, you don’t earn it. Period.
Unless they change it. Period.
“If you spent as much time working on [some task] as
you spend complaining about it on the forums, you’d be
done by now.”
Maybe having full exotics will not be a guarantee of failure, but it’s going to significantly increase chances of failing.
This is a lie, +20 Primary Stats and +16 Secondary Stats (the benefit of full Ascended Armour) will never “significantly” increase your chances of winning. Do not fall for this argument it is NONSENSE.
They have higher armor ratings also, don’t they?
“You keep saying ‘its unfair.’
I wonder what your basis for comparison is…”
- Jareth, King of Goblins.
As someone else mentioned you don’t do it you don’t get it. You don’t do pvp you don’t get fancy finishers, you don’t do fractals you don’t get fractal skins, you don’t grind gold for legendaries you don’t get a legendary, you don’t do dungeons you don’t get dungeon tokens, you don’t do raids you don’t get the raid rewards. There’s nothing else to it, if you want it go do it. If you don’t wanna get ascended than do it in exotics. What’s all the complaining about?
You take 1,988 dmg from Magic Aura
You take 1,821 dmg from Magic Aura
You take 1,904 dmg from Magic Aura
You take 2,205 dmg from Magic Aura
You take 1,861 dmg from Magic Aura
You take 2,102 dmg from Magic Aura
OMGOMGOMOGMGOMGOMG My ele only has 11645 hp…..
I think the guard in my team only took 1.6k per pulse.
Yup and that is why most of your posts demand Anet to give out rewards for undeserving gameplay. Which guess what will happen?
They will start giving out rewards for “undeserving” gameplay?
You heavily imply that you want to have easier access to Legendary armor without having to play the content in which it is designed to be obtained from. That demand equates to you thinking you deserve to obtain the reward without playing the content, whether or not now you go back and changing your mind about using the term “deserve” or not.
As someone else mentioned you don’t do it you don’t get it. You don’t do pvp you don’t get fancy finishers, you don’t do fractals you don’t get fractal skins, you don’t grind gold for legendaries you don’t get a legendary, you don’t do dungeons you don’t get dungeon tokens, you don’t do raids you don’t get the raid rewards. There’s nothing else to it, if you want it go do it. If you don’t wanna get ascended than do it in exotics. What’s all the complaining about?
If you don’t do Fractals then you don’t get Ascended Rings, if you don’t do Dungeons then you don’t get Dungeon skins, if you don’t max crafting then you don’t get Ascended weapons or armor, etc. There are numerous cases in the game of “if you don’t do X then you don’t get Y,” . . . until they decide to offer alternative methods of earning them. Which they do if the demand is high enough.
“If you spent as much time working on [some task] as
you spend complaining about it on the forums, you’d be
done by now.”
You heavily imply that you want to have easier access to Legendary armor without having to play the content in which it is designed to be obtained from. That demand equates to you thinking you deserve to obtain the reward without playing the content, whether or not now you go back and changing your mind about using the term “deserve” or not.
Again, nobody “deserves” anything. They get what they are given. If ANet decides to change what you have to do to get what you’re given, then lo, it is changed. I am willing to work for the rewards, but I do want to earn it through content more suited to my play style and availability than raids are likely to be. It does not have to be easier, it could in fact be harder and more time consuming, but it should be available through various means that are more suitable to a wider variety of players than raids are. There is nothing wrong with that.
“If you spent as much time working on [some task] as
you spend complaining about it on the forums, you’d be
done by now.”
Because Colin seemed pretty adamant on the idea of “no attuning?”
Yes I said not a hard gate, as a requirement. But if someone hasn’t run the previous content on the difficulty curve how are they supposed to succeed in Raids. If a player doesn’t want to run instanced content how will they magically start running Raids? Because it’s for 10 people and they can “hide” better? I doubt that will be possible, if anything it will be harder to get carried in the Raid than in Fractals, so why?
No attuning helps with players who are good at running the game anyway, they can possibly run it in full Exotics without problems. It also helps if you have multiple accounts, loads of characters and those who would have to change gear to play a different role.
That doesn’t mean there is no actual “attunement” here, do you think a fresh level 80 with master/rare gear and a couple of Exotics, not all skills/traits unlocked, without a proper build, would have a good time in Silverwastes and/or Verdant Brick?
You heavily imply that you want to have easier access to Legendary armor without having to play the content in which it is designed to be obtained from. That demand equates to you thinking you deserve to obtain the reward without playing the content, whether or not now you go back and changing your mind about using the term “deserve” or not.
Again, nobody “deserves” anything. They get what they are given. If ANet decides to change what you have to do to get what you’re given, then lo, it is changed. I am willing to work for the rewards, but I do want to earn it through content more suited to my play style and availability than raids are likely to be. It does not have to be easier, it could in fact be harder and more time consuming, but it should be available through various means that are more suitable to a wider variety of players than raids are. There is nothing wrong with that.
But as we have set it straight, alternative implies easier which diminish the value of the reward.
Proof: Let S be the set of all possible ways one can obtain a legendary precursor. Place a partial ordering of difficulty on S, denote by (S,<). (This ordering might differ depending on the person, but it doesn’t matter and it might be a partial ordering) Now since S is finite, there is an extension (S,<<) which leads to a linear ordering on S. Since every finite set S in a linear order has a maximal element, we label it M. Now, there is no such N such that M << N since that contradicts maximality of M. Set M = raid, according to ArenaNet. QED.
Since any other way N will diminish the value of M, we let S = {M}.
Because Colin seemed pretty adamant on the idea of “no attuning?”
Yes I said not a hard gate, as a requirement. But if someone hasn’t run the previous content on the difficulty curve how are they supposed to succeed in Raids. If a player doesn’t want to run instanced content how will they magically start running Raids? Because it’s for 10 people and they can “hide” better? I doubt that will be possible, if anything it will be harder to get carried in the Raid than in Fractals, so why?
No attuning helps with players who are good at running the game anyway, they can possibly run it in full Exotics without problems. It also helps if you have multiple accounts, loads of characters and those who would have to change gear to play a different role.
That doesn’t mean there is no actual “attunement” here, do you think a fresh level 80 with master/rare gear and a couple of Exotics, not all skills/traits unlocked, without a proper build, would have a good time in Silverwastes and/or Verdant Brick?
fractal level 10 is only required for faster acessories,
even so, the question is not whether someone who is fractal level 10 should be in raids
the question is whether
someone who has played for 2 months-2 years without touching any mildy difficult content is any more capable as someone who played for
3 weeks and is fractal level 30
because the first guy could have full ascended, and the second guy might only have 1 ring.
which is to say there is no coorelation to the amount of ascended you have, and the amount of skill you have, which makes it an inappropriate gate for raid type content.
and yeah i know multiple people who could be ready for raids in this game in 2 weeks or less, barring ascended, im sure most people do.
I also know a bunch of people who never bothered with ascended and left the game who could be ready for raids day 1, barring ascended.
If ascended had been available at release, would people still be having complaints about it?
Rings and back items were introduced on 11/15/12.
Amulets were introduced on 1/28/13.
Accessories were introduced on 2/26/13.
Weapons were introduced on 9/3/13.
Armor was introduced on 12/10/13.
It’s been a little over two years since ascended weapons were released and almost the same since armor. Had Anet released all ascended when the game was released, and then two years later they released HoT with raids, would you all still be complaining about ascended?
well, yes they would.
I mean it depends which complaints you are talking about
main complaints about ascended
grindy/time gate/limits build variety involving stats
ascended was created as a time reward/busywork/economic stimulus as a prestige stat boost, that was mostly unecessary, except for in fractals, which only required 3 pieces, and gave you progress on that front from doing fractals as you progress deeper.
It doesnt fit as being tied to raid progression.
now if ascended was in the game from start, an anet never said they believe in fast best in slot, people probably wouldnt complain about course change, however all the other complaints would still be there. Many of the people complaining about ascended came in the game when it already existed. Not all players still playing have been here for 3 years, probably not even most players at this point.
even so, the question is not whether someone who is fractal level 10 should be in raids
the question is whether someone who has played for 2 months-2 years without touching any mildy difficult content is any more capable as someone who played for
3 weeks and is fractal level 30
because the first guy could have full ascended, and the second guy might only have 1 ring.
The first player would probably not survive in the Raid even with full Ascended while the second one has a much higher chance of succeeding even in full Exotics. Keep in mind that having a proper build, team composition and good rotation will result in much much higher efficiency than the difference between Exotic and Ascended, and those cannot be learned while not running difficult content.
I can understand there is a problem balancing Raids with Ascended, especially if you are a returning player, or if you will need to switch your build to fit a new role, getting Ascended Cleric gear to play the Druid in the Raid for example. But I have the sneaky suspicion those asking for Raids to be balanced under Exotics are not those kinds of players.
even so, the question is not whether someone who is fractal level 10 should be in raids
the question is whether someone who has played for 2 months-2 years without touching any mildy difficult content is any more capable as someone who played for
3 weeks and is fractal level 30
because the first guy could have full ascended, and the second guy might only have 1 ring.
The first player would probably not survive in the Raid even with full Ascended while the second one has a much higher chance of succeeding even in full Exotics. Keep in mind that having a proper build, team composition and good rotation will result in much much higher efficiency than the difference between Exotic and Ascended, and those cannot be learned while not running difficult content.
I can understand there is a problem balancing Raids with Ascended, especially if you are a returning player, or if you will need to switch your build to fit a new role, getting Ascended Cleric gear to play the Druid in the Raid for example. But I have the sneaky suspicion those asking for Raids to be balanced under Exotics are not those kinds of players.
Cleric druid is nice. DnT has been pretty quiet lately about the builds… yeah. Oh on another thought maybe Cleric guard can have a place. I remember Nemesis has a cleric guard build that can produce 1k+ hp/sec constant party wide regen. It has been use for FoTM 50 trio sell a lot lately. It might do something with the raids.
even so, the question is not whether someone who is fractal level 10 should be in raids
the question is whether someone who has played for 2 months-2 years without touching any mildy difficult content is any more capable as someone who played for
3 weeks and is fractal level 30
because the first guy could have full ascended, and the second guy might only have 1 ring.
The first player would probably not survive in the Raid even with full Ascended while the second one has a much higher chance of succeeding even in full Exotics. Keep in mind that having a proper build, team composition and good rotation will result in much much higher efficiency than the difference between Exotic and Ascended, and those cannot be learned while not running difficult content.
I can understand there is a problem balancing Raids with Ascended, especially if you are a returning player, or if you will need to switch your build to fit a new role, getting Ascended Cleric gear to play the Druid in the Raid for example. But I have the sneaky suspicion those asking for Raids to be balanced under Exotics are not those kinds of players.
just to be clear, i dont want raids balanced for exotics, that would make them way too easy. I want ascended aquisition to have a method that is goal/trial oriented over grind/time gate.
and i want a better system for dealing with multiple stat sets, than our regular inventory, which is fairly annoying to deal with already, much less with multiple stat sets reccommended.
even so, the question is not whether someone who is fractal level 10 should be in raids
the question is whether someone who has played for 2 months-2 years without touching any mildy difficult content is any more capable as someone who played for
3 weeks and is fractal level 30
because the first guy could have full ascended, and the second guy might only have 1 ring.
The first player would probably not survive in the Raid even with full Ascended while the second one has a much higher chance of succeeding even in full Exotics. Keep in mind that having a proper build, team composition and good rotation will result in much much higher efficiency than the difference between Exotic and Ascended, and those cannot be learned while not running difficult content.
I can understand there is a problem balancing Raids with Ascended, especially if you are a returning player, or if you will need to switch your build to fit a new role, getting Ascended Cleric gear to play the Druid in the Raid for example. But I have the sneaky suspicion those asking for Raids to be balanced under Exotics are not those kinds of players.
just to be clear, i dont want raids balanced for exotics, that would make them way too easy. I want ascended aquisition to have a method that is goal/trial oriented over grind/time gate.
and i want a better system for dealing with multiple stat sets, than our regular inventory, which is fairly annoying to deal with already, much less with multiple stat sets reccommended.
And I will ask again. Do you honestly believe someone who only reached level 10 in Fractals will have a good time in Raids?
Quite possible, it really depends on what’s in the raids, I suppose. Besides, whether people have a good time or not, if Raids are the only source for Legendary Precursors then it doesn’t really matter, they’ll have to do it anyways. “Ya gotta go what ya gotta do.”
But as we have set it straight, alternative implies easier which diminish the value of the reward.
Alternative does not in any way imply easier, you just insist that it does, loudly and repeatedly, that does not make it any more true.
just to be clear, i dont want raids balanced for exotics, that would make them way too easy.
Balancing for Exotics would not make the content any easier, if player stats are capped at Exotic levels, such that a player in full Ascended would not have a stat advantage over one in Exotics.
“If you spent as much time working on [some task] as
you spend complaining about it on the forums, you’d be
done by now.”
Besides, whether people have a good time or not, if Raids are the only source for Legendary Precursors then it doesn’t really matter, they’ll have to do it anyways. “Ya gotta go what ya gotta do.”
So your entire idea is for players who have no experience in GW 2 instanced content to be able to participate in Raids, even though they lack the experience and the skill required for them. Skipping a great deal of a difficulty curve can be a very dangerous thing.
If you are not smart or can’t study hard enough to go to med school to become a doctor than you can’t be a doctor, there is no alternative route. If you are not skilled or can’t persevere hard enough to do raids in exotic gear than you can’t be legendary. It’s that simple there no alternative. Legendaries have for too long been meaningless and skilless to squire which diminish the term legendary over time. Well to be legendary you gotta have done all sorts of stuff in the game including top tier pve I.e fractal 50 for example. Do you guys know what legendary means? It means you are the best the top you have conquered the game, it is not just some shiny skin you can buy of the tp. In this case if raids are as hard as Anet makes it out to be so much so that they have decided it is what the player needs to become legendary than so be it. All you entitled people complaining how hard it is to get ascended and such don’t deserve a shot at the legendary armor because legendaries are supposed to be legendaries. Who knows Anet might even add legendary armor to the pvp loot table for pvpers. Raids according to Anet will be the hardest pve content, to get your legendary you gotta finally work for it. Anet has finally don’t legendaries right with legendary armor pls don’t whine and diminish the value of legendary armor just like what legendary weapons are now, worthless.
So around 120 extra points of Toughness (armor and toughness being interchangeable).
Seems like it might come up in a constant damage environment.
You’re cheating again, trying to trick and lie to people (or are too lazy to count). Armour increase is +47 for Light with full Ascended and +60 for Heavy.
Why do people insist on lying in order to stir up support?
ASCENDED ARMOUR WILL NOT AFFECT EVENTUAL OUTCOMES OF GROUPS, PEOPLE TELLING YOU THAT GEAR IS A BARRIER ARE LIARS OR IDIOTS.
You take 1,988 dmg from Magic Aura
You take 1,821 dmg from Magic Aura
You take 1,904 dmg from Magic Aura
You take 2,205 dmg from Magic Aura
You take 1,861 dmg from Magic Aura
You take 2,102 dmg from Magic Aura
OMGOMGOMOGMGOMGOMG My ele only has 11645 hp…..
I think the guard in my team only took 1.6k per pulse.
The person I initially questioned was saying the difference between orange and pink was 36 stat points. The actual difference is more like 156 stat points.
“You keep saying ‘its unfair.’
I wonder what your basis for comparison is…”
- Jareth, King of Goblins.
ASCENDED ARMOUR WILL NOT AFFECT EVENTUAL OUTCOMES OF GROUPS, PEOPLE TELLING YOU THAT GEAR IS A BARRIER ARE LIARS OR IDIOTS.
Hi, I’m a practiced raid leader in other games. While I expect Anet to generate little more than cakewalks that almost coincidentally take 10 people, the way the term ‘raid’ is used in the larger MMO gaming universe bringing every single percentage point you can muster is just common courtesy when raiding — until you have it dialed in.
You run your groups how you like. No one will stop you. But don’t look stunned if other groups have higher expectations on the preparation of their members. And given the highly variable skill level of pug-raids, every percentage point counts.
“You keep saying ‘its unfair.’
I wonder what your basis for comparison is…”
- Jareth, King of Goblins.
Gear check, inspects etc are the bane of MMO’s. They go against the spirit of teamwork and cooperation.
I have to disagree with you here. Gear checks and inspects are a filter to make sure people are at least attempting to bring teamwork and cooperation. There has to be a way, in content that actually matters, to make sure the people joining you are at least invested enough in that content…to meaningfully contribute. That’s the same reason they had to remove magic find from gear in this game…leeches. People joining your groups that had no intention of meaningfully contributing…just there to stand in a corner collecting loot bags at the group’s expense. The spirit of teamwork and cooperation would be to bring your top level of contribution to the top level group content.
Currently this is an extremely small issue compared to other games, but will probably change come HoT now. This is meant to be the game which forgoes that problem and encourages teamplay not waiting around for the right classes and gear. It almost gets the former, but I’m not necs seeing the company encourage the latter.
I don’t recall them ever saying gear quality would not matter for any content. They did say they wanted to avoid the gear treadmill…and for the most part they have done that. Just like someone else said…the extension from exotic to ascended does not equal a treadmill. They did fail kitten the waiting on the right classes part though, particularly on the issue of there actually being at least one unwanted class in raids.
Ascended armour is not something pleasant for most players to get. If it was, it wouldn’t be so much of an issue. Now, those coming into the game new, will be gated by other players requiring ascended before they can step into the raid. That’s not how GW should work.
If I am shut out of a raid, I want it to be because I am not good enough as a player, not because I don’t have someone elses perception of what items I should have on me.
Ascended gear wasn’t something that was “pleasant” for anyone to get. It was an investment of time and in game resources for everyone. That being said, no one is stopping you from raiding. You are entirely capable of forming your own raid and going in there unprepared if you want to experience that end game content…as a brand new player. You can even choose to invest in ascended gear instead…via farming and purchasing of materials and crafting your ascended gear asap…that way you can be more prepared for this end game content. If you are so new to the game that you haven’t saved the necessary gold, etc…then crafting (and selling ) certain exotics can net you significant profits to fund your ascended crafting. That being said, if you are that new to the game…what is it that has you convinced that you are that good of a player to contribute to the hardest content in the game? Wouldn’t it make more sense to practice the other content leading up to raids first? Perhaps fractals…that actually drop ascended loot boxes for free and give you gold?
If ascended had been available at release, would people still be having complaints about it?
If they had been as tedious to get as they are now? Sure i would. It’s not the fact that ascended exist that is a problem. It’s the acquisition ease that’s a problem. Personally, i have been bought by devs’ claims that BiS gear will be immediately and easily accessible as soon as you get to max level. In fact, coming from GW1, i fully expected that to be the case.
Anet doing a 180 on this was something i never agreed with.
TL/DR: Ascended are not a problem because they were introduced after launch. They are a problem because their sole reason for their introduction into this game was to make people grind for them.
Yup and that is why most of your posts demand Anet to give out rewards for undeserving gameplay. Which guess what will happen?
Guess what did happen when a few loud people were asking to give them raids, even though Anet didn’t want to have them in the game initially?
Also, all the gameplay in this game is equally “undeserving”. It’s not like you are providing anything to the society by playing one type of content over another, after all.
Actions, not words.
Remember, remember, 15th of November
If ascended had been available at release, would people still be having complaints about it?
If they had been as tedious to get as they are now? Sure i would. It’s not the fact that ascended exist that is a problem. It’s the acquisition ease that’s a problem. Personally, i have been bought by devs’ claims that BiS gear will be immediately and easily accessible as soon as you get to max level. In fact, coming from GW1, i fully expected that to be the case.
Anet doing a 180 on this was something i never agreed with.
TL/DR: Ascended are not a problem because they were introduced after launch. They are a problem because their sole reason for their introduction into this game was to make people grind for them.
There are people that argue that it is a problem because it was introduced after launch. These are the same people that still claim there’s a gear treadmill after two years and no indication that there will ever be a new tier. Although I do think those people use “gear treadmill” as an argument often because it gets people in their side. Kind of like how grind is often thrown about…
ASCENDED ARMOUR WILL NOT AFFECT EVENTUAL OUTCOMES OF GROUPS, PEOPLE TELLING YOU THAT GEAR IS A BARRIER ARE LIARS OR IDIOTS.
Hi, I’m a practiced raid leader in other games. While I expect Anet to generate little more than cakewalks that almost coincidentally take 10 people, the way the term ‘raid’ is used in the larger MMO gaming universe bringing every single percentage point you can muster is just common courtesy when raiding — until you have it dialed in.
You run your groups how you like. No one will stop you. But don’t look stunned if other groups have higher expectations on the preparation of their members. And given the highly variable skill level of pug-raids, every percentage point counts.
So your point is that people who aren’t that interested in being fully prepared for Raids will have a harder time completing them? I agree but it is that ATTITUDE and not their gear that will be the main problem. Lets stop pretending that people with an extreme drive to do Raids and be the best at doing this content but refuse to get Ascended and use Food/Utility buffs exist, they don’t and saying we should try to accomodate these imaginary people is just an attempt to get the difficulty and skill requirements nerf’d.
Gear is not the barrier – just the mindset of the people this content was never designed for.
Ascended now is hard to get? Pls where were you when ascended first launched. As someone who just came back from 2 years break and only been playing 1 week I can tell you ascended is way easier to get. I even got 1 weapon chest from pvp the other day. Also fractals drop ascended armor at 10% at lvl 50 I might be lucky but I’ve already gotten 2 this week and that’s 1/3 done. Nike so you’re saying the small % bonus that ascended gives matters in raids and that as you ‘raid leader’ you will want every % that counts? But I don’t understand are you for or against ascended? If you’re against it than as a ‘raid leader’ why not just start your own raid with a full team of exotic players? I’m sure it is very possible if you have a good team comp and players. Raiding with both ascended and exotics will be possible IMO so why not just raid how you want? You’re saying you’re against ascended because it gives a small % stat boost that you cannot get easily and because of that you totally won’t do a raid in exotics as you can’t be at max efficiency? What if the devs didn’t even mention anything about ascended in the 1st place? It would just be another hard dungeon and everyone would have no issue with it. From what I’m seeing now all the people complaining are just using raids as a topic to get their lazy kitten some easy ascended. Raids are just raids do it in ascended or exotic no one gives a kitten , if you wanna get a small stat boost get ascended if you don’t just use exotics. It’s just a big dungeon. Why should Anet make ascended easier to get just because of raids? It’s not like they implemented any gear gates or anything which stop you from even entering. It’s like saying oh they should make exotics even easier to get then they are now because rares are inferior in dungeons. You can still do dungeons in rares can’t you? No ones stopping you. Stop using raids as an excuse to make ascended easier to obtain than it already is. If you don’t wanna get ascended than use exotics! Geez! What’s so difficult to understand about that?! It’s like explaining to a baby! Baby: mum I’m tired! I can’t run anymore! Mum: honey it’s ok you can walk Baby: but I wanna run! Mum: than just rest or push yourself to run honey! Baby: but I’m tired! Why isn’t running as easy as walking! I don’t want to rest! I want to run now! That is what I feel like when trying to reason with all you people complaining about raids and ascended, running being ascended exotic being walking, if you run or walk you still reach there at the same time! And not even that much faster because running babies and walking babies almost make no difference!
If ascended had been available at release, would people still be having complaints about it?
Rings and back items were introduced on 11/15/12.
Amulets were introduced on 1/28/13.
Accessories were introduced on 2/26/13.
Weapons were introduced on 9/3/13.
Armor was introduced on 12/10/13.
It’s been a little over two years since ascended weapons were released and almost the same since armor. Had Anet released all ascended when the game was released, and then two years later they released HoT with raids, would you all still be complaining about ascended?
Yes, I would be unhappy with the existence of ascended if it had been in the game at release.
The only way to have prevented that would have been for Anet to not have stated that grind would be reserved for skins, not stats pre-release in an effort to get those of us who liked the GW1 model for gear to buy the game.
I just started the game about 1 month ago. I got to level 80 and I farmed and I farmed and I farmed and now I can afford to get 6/6 Ascended Gear + 1 Weapon. Go me. But….
My hang up are the Laurels….they put a time restriction on the account. I have to wait until I can afford the recipes, which in turn slows down my Ascended accessory progression.
just to be clear, i dont want raids balanced for exotics, that would make them way too easy. I want ascended aquisition to have a method that is goal/trial oriented over grind/time gate.
and i want a better system for dealing with multiple stat sets, than our regular inventory, which is fairly annoying to deal with already, much less with multiple stat sets reccommended.
Worth likely repeating, the difficulty difference between ‘scaled for ascended’ and ‘scaled for exotic’ is likely insignificant.
So your point is that people who aren’t that interested in being fully prepared for Raids will have a harder time completing them? I agree but it is that ATTITUDE and not their gear that will be the main problem.
That attitude protects the rest of the group from the failings of the individual. If I have plenty of time, sure, we roll with what we’ve got and see how it goes. But if its a tightly scheduled event, prep is not optional. Be it gear or just remembering to bring your consumables.
I’ve been kicked myself and it’s not that big a deal. “Hey, glad you found a stronger replacement, sorry I was dragging us down”. Its usually a quirk of connection speed rather than gear in my experience, but if you want the best for your team/friends, you have to be willing to bow out sometimes.
Lets stop pretending that people with an extreme drive to do Raids and be the best at doing this content but refuse to get Ascended and use Food/Utility buffs exist, they don’t and saying we should try to accomodate these imaginary people is just an attempt to get the difficulty and skill requirements nerf’d.
Well I’m being told repeatedly IN THIS THREAD “I’m a highly skilled player and I shouldn’t have to have gear.” I largely agree with you — that combination doesn’t exist. Because skilled players Get. Their. Gear.
Gear is not the barrier – just the mindset of the people this content was never designed for.
Gear was never the barrier… its a safety net that protects groups that are learning the encounter. And fact of the matter is when you’re learning a new encounter you need all the net you can muster to buy the time to figure things out.
“You keep saying ‘its unfair.’
I wonder what your basis for comparison is…”
- Jareth, King of Goblins.
just to be clear, i dont want raids balanced for exotics, that would make them way too easy. I want ascended aquisition to have a method that is goal/trial oriented over grind/time gate.
and i want a better system for dealing with multiple stat sets, than our regular inventory, which is fairly annoying to deal with already, much less with multiple stat sets reccommended.
Worth likely repeating, the difficulty difference between ‘scaled for ascended’ and ‘scaled for exotic’ is likely insignificant.
1)it doesnt really matter, people playing difficult content always want people to bring the best statistics they can.
2) also you keep on saying the stats are negligeable, when you mean the stats from armor specifically are negligable. the stat difference in ascended in total are noticeable, unless you dont think something that as a team, contributes something in the range of 12% more offensive effeciency and 3-9%(upper end estimated) more defensive effeciency with the same exact players is noticeable.
3) regardless, even if its negligable, it was balanced for ascended, which means ascended aquisition should be logical with the context of a focus on challenging/raid type content.
I just started the game about 1 month ago. I got to level 80 and I farmed and I farmed and I farmed and now I can afford to get 6/6 Ascended Gear + 1 Weapon. Go me. But….
My hang up are the Laurels….they put a time restriction on the account. I have to wait until I can afford the recipes, which in turn slows down my Ascended accessory progression.
Nerf Laurels please.
i agree, time gates are trash
they are an incredibly simplistic means of slowing people down from their natural paces,
I love how when a group can’t down a boss on their first or second try in a beta = Must have Ascended.
content designed based on ascended
+ the best groups needing 5-6 attempts ON THE FIRST MINI BOSS
+ everyone having access to any ascended gear set they want on demand
+ many groups failing after 2 hours, even with ascended ON THE FIRST MINIBOSSS
= why are you dragging the team down by not coming with the best stats you can, we failed 4 times already quits team and starts new one with gear checks instituted.
mathematical need isnt really going to come into play.
requiring everyone to have ascended basically ensures better chance of success, and less mastery required to succeed, which makes it a feasible request.
most people arent willing to fail 2-3 more times hoping everyone gets 10% more effecient after failing
just to be clear, i dont want raids balanced for exotics, that would make them way too easy. I want ascended aquisition to have a method that is goal/trial oriented over grind/time gate.
and i want a better system for dealing with multiple stat sets, than our regular inventory, which is fairly annoying to deal with already, much less with multiple stat sets reccommended.
Worth likely repeating, the difficulty difference between ‘scaled for ascended’ and ‘scaled for exotic’ is likely insignificant.
1)it doesnt really matter, people playing difficult content always want people to bring the best statistics they can.
2) also you keep on saying the stats are negligeable, when you mean the stats from armor specifically are negligable. the stat difference in ascended in total are noticeable, unless you dont think something that as a team, contributes something in the range of 12% more offensive effeciency and 3-9%(upper end estimated) more defensive effeciency with the same exact players is noticeable.
3) regardless, even if its negligable, it was balanced for ascended, which means ascended aquisition should be logical with the context of a focus on challenging/raid type content.
That’s a HELL of a range for defensive benefit.
Otherwise mainly want to hit 3. Balancing for ascended implies a large number of other things already balanced for, many of which I doubt arenanet will be willing to accept
I love how when a group can’t down a boss on their first or second try in a beta = Must have Ascended.
content designed based on ascended
+ the best groups needing 5-6 attempts ON THE FIRST MINI BOSS
+ everyone having access to any ascended gear set they want on demand
+ many groups failing after 2 hours, even with ascended ON THE FIRST MINIBOSSS
= why are you dragging the team down by not coming with the best stats you can, we failed 4 times already quits team and starts new one with gear checks instituted.
mathematical need isnt really going to come into play.
requiring everyone to have ascended basically ensures better chance of success, and less mastery required to succeed, which makes it a feasible request.
most people arent willing to fail 2-3 more times hoping everyone gets 10% more effecient after failing
You sound mad, perhaps you should have a morning coffee or something before posting. Stop assuming everyone is the same skill level, there are groups of people out there that can and will do this in a full exotic set up just to blow everyone QQ out of the water.
just to be clear, i dont want raids balanced for exotics, that would make them way too easy. I want ascended aquisition to have a method that is goal/trial oriented over grind/time gate.
and i want a better system for dealing with multiple stat sets, than our regular inventory, which is fairly annoying to deal with already, much less with multiple stat sets reccommended.
Worth likely repeating, the difficulty difference between ‘scaled for ascended’ and ‘scaled for exotic’ is likely insignificant.
1)it doesnt really matter, people playing difficult content always want people to bring the best statistics they can.
2) also you keep on saying the stats are negligeable, when you mean the stats from armor specifically are negligable. the stat difference in ascended in total are noticeable, unless you dont think something that as a team, contributes something in the range of 12% more offensive effeciency and 3-9%(upper end estimated) more defensive effeciency with the same exact players is noticeable.
3) regardless, even if its negligable, it was balanced for ascended, which means ascended aquisition should be logical with the context of a focus on challenging/raid type content.
That’s a HELL of a range for defensive benefit.
Otherwise mainly want to hit 3. Balancing for ascended implies a large number of other things already balanced for, many of which I doubt arenanet will be willing to accept
3% is base difference in armor.
the 9% is a quick estimate based on the fact that tanky players will have more toughness, and how that compounds with healing over time, as well as more healing from healers based on stats.
so basically for defense oriented players they will likely have like 5-6% more defense and healers will get more bang per buck healing them.
and 3 was mostly saying, if ascended is what they expected players to have for raids, than aquisition of ascended should be in line with the type of play raid players would do.
log in rewards, time gates, zerg gold farms are not really the type of play raiders are known for loving.
oh yeah dungeons are getting nerfed rewards, so that even less methods for challenging group content type players to prepare for the inevitable asnd only pls meta that i have no doubt that will be common.
