Ascended Gear to be Required for Raids
I think this whole discussion comes down to closed thinking.
People associate progression gear with ‘hard’ and raids, so they think progression gear == actual difficult content.
The thread maybe, the situation no. Fact is it exists. If they tune for exotics then ascended is overpowered. You either need to scale the ascended to exotic levels rendering that extra money you spent useless, or tell your players to suck it up and get the best stuff if you want to max out your abilities in raids. That’s the situation. Either works, it’s just who are they more concerned with upsetting? Those that spent the time/money on ascended, or those too lazy to do so? (yes I know it’s an inflammatory way of putting it but really ascended isn’t hard to acquire, it’s tradeable within your account, and weapons/trinkets make up the majority of the power from it which are even easier to acquire than armor).
I wont have the skin or the QoL.
It should be ; " I won’t have the skin and the QoL".
That’s my point GW2 is based on skin as reward not gear or QoL.
I can’t find one QoL that have been hide behind a gamemode (if you do have one enligthen me).
Now; a major QoL will be hide behind Raid.
I’m fine with Raid having Amazing cool looking armor to show off.
I’m not with them having cool QoL that are denied to other gamemode player.
I think this whole discussion comes down to closed thinking.
People associate progression gear with ‘hard’ and raids, so they think progression gear == actual difficult content.
The thread maybe, the situation no. Fact is it exists. If they tune for exotics then ascended is overpowered. You either need to scale the ascended to exotic levels rendering that extra money you spent useless, or tell your players to suck it up and get the best stuff if you want to max out your abilities in raids. That’s the situation. Either works, it’s just who are they more concerned with upsetting? Those that spent the time/money on ascended, or those too lazy to do so? (yes I know it’s an inflammatory way of putting it but really ascended isn’t hard to acquire, it’s tradeable within your account, and weapons/trinkets make up the majority of the power from it which are even easier to acquire than armor).
The problem with this is simple:
Ascended weapons and trinkets are about a 3% boost.full armor is an additional 2% boost.
Picking the wrong utility skill or trait has a massively greater effect on your effectiveness, offensively or defensively than ‘full ascended’ ever will.
And they can’t tune to that fine a level If they attune to the 2% of full ascended armor, that means that they’ve already tuned to the most efficient group/build makeup that they can think of . Yeah they want it hard, but doing that is suicide — also nearly impossible.
The numbers on ascended gear is well known (although I see some people occasionally throw some crazy numbers out, the math’s been worked many times, including a few in this thread). Given that, it’s just not meaningful, one is left wondering why people are so convinced it is. I have 2 reasons.
1) A dev said it was required (later retracted to reccomended) and they still haven’t fully retracted that statement.
2) Players associate gear progression with raiding so it ‘makes sense’ to them.
I wont have the skin or the QoL.
It should be ; " I won’t have the skin and the QoL".
That’s my point GW2 is based on skin as reward not gear or QoL.
I can’t find one QoL that have been hide behind a gamemode (if you do have one enligthen me).
Now; a major QoL will be hide behind Raid.
I’m fine with Raid having Amazing cool looking armor to show off.
I’m not with them having cool QoL that are denied to other gamemode player.
OK, and?
How is any of that relevant to my point that legendaries are ascended tier, not a separate tier of their own?
Personally, without the ability to rune switch on the fly, stat switching is not particularly worthwhile to me, but to each his own.
As to gating QoL behind a game mode:
If raiding is considered a separate game mode than PvE then Im going to call legendary weapon crafting separate from PvE, PvP, and WvW. So that gate you ask about has been here since almost the beginning of the game
Another example: Rotation efficiency can count for upwards of 5 stacks of might from a PS warrior. No matter what, a warrior that hits rotations in exotic is more useful than one who doesn’t in ascended.
Oh and also, I forgot that food and utility buffs are also significantly more important to your performance than ascended vs exotic.
I think this whole discussion comes down to closed thinking.
People associate progression gear with ‘hard’ and raids, so they think progression gear == actual difficult content.
The thread maybe, the situation no. Fact is it exists. If they tune for exotics then ascended is overpowered. You either need to scale the ascended to exotic levels rendering that extra money you spent useless, or tell your players to suck it up and get the best stuff if you want to max out your abilities in raids. That’s the situation. Either works, it’s just who are they more concerned with upsetting? Those that spent the time/money on ascended, or those too lazy to do so? (yes I know it’s an inflammatory way of putting it but really ascended isn’t hard to acquire, it’s tradeable within your account, and weapons/trinkets make up the majority of the power from it which are even easier to acquire than armor).
The problem with this is simple:
Ascended weapons and trinkets are about a 3% boost.full armor is an additional 2% boost.
Picking the wrong utility skill or trait has a massively greater effect on your effectiveness, offensively or defensively than ‘full ascended’ ever will.
And they can’t tune to that fine a level If they attune to the 2% of full ascended armor, that means that they’ve already tuned to the most efficient group/build makeup that they can think of . Yeah they want it hard, but doing that is suicide — also nearly impossible.
The numbers on ascended gear is well known (although I see some people occasionally throw some crazy numbers out, the math’s been worked many times, including a few in this thread). Given that, it’s just not meaningful, one is left wondering why people are so convinced it is. I have 2 reasons.
1) A dev said it was required (later retracted to reccomended) and they still haven’t fully retracted that statement.
2) Players associate gear progression with raiding so it ‘makes sense’ to them.
Where are you getting those numbers? As far as I’m aware Weapons + Trinkets is a 12.5% dps boost (remember things multiply) for power damage, and armor another about 2.5 for a ~15% total.
I think this whole discussion comes down to closed thinking.
People associate progression gear with ‘hard’ and raids, so they think progression gear == actual difficult content.
The thread maybe, the situation no. Fact is it exists. If they tune for exotics then ascended is overpowered. You either need to scale the ascended to exotic levels rendering that extra money you spent useless, or tell your players to suck it up and get the best stuff if you want to max out your abilities in raids. That’s the situation. Either works, it’s just who are they more concerned with upsetting? Those that spent the time/money on ascended, or those too lazy to do so? (yes I know it’s an inflammatory way of putting it but really ascended isn’t hard to acquire, it’s tradeable within your account, and weapons/trinkets make up the majority of the power from it which are even easier to acquire than armor).
The problem with this is simple:
Ascended weapons and trinkets are about a 3% boost.full armor is an additional 2% boost.
Picking the wrong utility skill or trait has a massively greater effect on your effectiveness, offensively or defensively than ‘full ascended’ ever will.
And they can’t tune to that fine a level If they attune to the 2% of full ascended armor, that means that they’ve already tuned to the most efficient group/build makeup that they can think of . Yeah they want it hard, but doing that is suicide — also nearly impossible.
The numbers on ascended gear is well known (although I see some people occasionally throw some crazy numbers out, the math’s been worked many times, including a few in this thread). Given that, it’s just not meaningful, one is left wondering why people are so convinced it is. I have 2 reasons.
1) A dev said it was required (later retracted to reccomended) and they still haven’t fully retracted that statement.
2) Players associate gear progression with raiding so it ‘makes sense’ to them.
Where are you getting those numbers? As far as I’m aware Weapons + Trinkets is a 12.5% dps boost (remember things multiply) for power damage, and armor another about 2.5 for a ~15% total.
I took that partiular example from upthread somewhere (or my memory of it).
Even granting I’m remembering wrong about weapons/trinkets, the numbers for armor are close, and armor is the primary cost in ‘full ascended’.
So take the revised statement: “Partial ascended is recommended for all raids, and the late ones recommend full ascended.” If I grant 10%, the ‘partial’ kind of works, but in what world does the ‘full’ work?
Ascended armor still cannot be a meaningful limitation
OK, and?
How is any of that relevant to my point that legendaries are ascended tier, not a separate tier of their own?
Personally, without the ability to rune switch on the fly, stat switching is not particularly worthwhile to me, but to each his own.
As to gating QoL behind a game mode:
If raiding is considered a separate game mode than PvE then Im going to call legendary weapon crafting separate from PvE, PvP, and WvW. So that gate you ask about has been here since almost the beginning of the game
Legendary are a separate tier of their own: they are the tier that will always mirror the higher gear tier available (currently being ascended).
Legendary as defined by Anet is a QoL gear tier. you invest in it & you are fine for the rest of the game life.
edit: I forgot the rest of your post in nonsensical.
Just answer that :
I can’t find one QoL that have been hide behind a gamemode (if you do have one enligthen me).
(edited by papry.8096)
Ascended Gear to be Required for Raids
in Guild Wars 2: Heart of Thorns
Posted by: Astralporing.1957
The one that is more entitled is the one ASKING for anet to GIVE HIM REWARDS THE WAY HE WANTS, NOT TO WAY ANET SET IT OUT TO BE.
Okay, then everyone that was asking Anet to introduce Raids into the game is entitled. I get it.
SOME people don’t like this reward system anet has set out, which means they can’t accept the path set forth by anet, hence, THEY WANT IT THEIR WAY.
The same way some people didn’t like the game having no raids and being a game aimed at casuals?
No one said raiders won’t share – everyone is freely able to raid – its your own bloody problem if you don’t want to do the path anet sets out for you…
So, again, just like the Raiders before HoT announcement.
The real difference is, he isn’t ASKING for anet to change their philsophy , their path, on how exclusive rewards are achieved…
He isn’t now, but what about before?
It boils down to accepting anet’s reward philsophy or moving on. A lot of players have accepted it and seem to be OK with it…. the ones who aren’t willing to accept it are the REAL entitled ones who believe it “HAS TO BE MY WAY , NOT ANETS”
So, exactly the same as the raiders before HoT announcement.
Good, now we’re on the same page.
Actions, not words.
Remember, remember, 15th of November
Remember, remember, 15th of November
Good, now we’re on the same page.
To sum it up; It just happened that this time, it fits what he wanted.
(edited by papry.8096)
I think this whole discussion comes down to closed thinking.
People associate progression gear with ‘hard’ and raids, so they think progression gear == actual difficult content.
The thread maybe, the situation no. Fact is it exists. If they tune for exotics then ascended is overpowered. You either need to scale the ascended to exotic levels rendering that extra money you spent useless, or tell your players to suck it up and get the best stuff if you want to max out your abilities in raids. That’s the situation. Either works, it’s just who are they more concerned with upsetting? Those that spent the time/money on ascended, or those too lazy to do so? (yes I know it’s an inflammatory way of putting it but really ascended isn’t hard to acquire, it’s tradeable within your account, and weapons/trinkets make up the majority of the power from it which are even easier to acquire than armor).
The problem with this is simple:
Ascended weapons and trinkets are about a 3% boost.full armor is an additional 2% boost.
Picking the wrong utility skill or trait has a massively greater effect on your effectiveness, offensively or defensively than ‘full ascended’ ever will.
And they can’t tune to that fine a level If they attune to the 2% of full ascended armor, that means that they’ve already tuned to the most efficient group/build makeup that they can think of . Yeah they want it hard, but doing that is suicide — also nearly impossible.
The numbers on ascended gear is well known (although I see some people occasionally throw some crazy numbers out, the math’s been worked many times, including a few in this thread). Given that, it’s just not meaningful, one is left wondering why people are so convinced it is. I have 2 reasons.
1) A dev said it was required (later retracted to reccomended) and they still haven’t fully retracted that statement.
2) Players associate gear progression with raiding so it ‘makes sense’ to them.
Where are you getting those numbers? As far as I’m aware Weapons + Trinkets is a 12.5% dps boost (remember things multiply) for power damage, and armor another about 2.5 for a ~15% total.
I took that partiular example from upthread somewhere (or my memory of it).
Even granting I’m remembering wrong about weapons/trinkets, the numbers for armor are close, and armor is the primary cost in ‘full ascended’.
So take the revised statement: “Partial ascended is recommended for all raids, and the late ones recommend full ascended.” If I grant 10%, the ‘partial’ kind of works, but in what world does the ‘full’ work?
Ascended armor still cannot be a meaningful limitation
Naw Armor won’t be a huge thing, but it could be the difference between a near win and a failure.
Except that I don’t ask for anything. Devs create content and add exclusive reward to it. No one cared about this for 3 years. What changed now?
That’s not true though. People cared, people expressed that they cared, you just apparently did not notice. The change is not that people suddenly care, it’s that you have suddenly noticed.
So increased drop of ascended chests with select-able stats from first bosses in raids, map reward system that will give expensive mats to you for doing random events and entire fractal rework to make them more casual friendly is not enough?
Probably not. Ascended chests from the raids is pointless because it’s just giving them out to the people who are most likely to already have them. The map reward system might help, but we still have no idea what that entails, so there’s no way to judge. And Fractals are more casual friendly, but they’re still Fractals.
The one that is more entitled is the one ASKING for anet to GIVE HIM REWARDS THE WAY HE WANTS, NOT TO WAY ANET SET IT OUT TO BE.
As are the people asking ANet to stick to their guns. Actively defending the status quo is still taking a position.
SOME people don’t like this reward system anet has set out, which means they can’t accept the path set forth by anet, hence, THEY WANT IT THEIR WAY.
That is the defintion of entitlement…..
Ah, I see what the problem is, you don’t know what the word “entitlement” means, so you use it when you mean something else. You should probably stop doing that, it is confusing to everyone else.
It boils down to accepting anet’s reward philsophy or moving on. A lot of players have accepted it and seem to be OK with it…. the ones who aren’t willing to accept it are the REAL entitled ones who believe it “HAS TO BE MY WAY , NOT ANETS”
That’s easy to say when the thing ANet wants to do happens to be the thing you’d want them to do anyway. Suffice it to say, the decision is ultimately ANet’s to make, they can choose to go the way that they originally intended, or they can change their minds, as they have done thousands of times over the course of the game. It is no more inherently selfish to ask for a change that would align with one’s own interests than it is to ask to maintain a status quo that aligns with one’s own interests, the point is that you’d like the game to be the way that you would most enjoy.
If you truly believe that ANet can and should do whatever they want, then step out of the way, let the players make their case, and let ANet decide. If you truly believe that whatever ANet decides is the right way to go, then you have no reason to get involved in the discussion.
“If you spent as much time working on [some task] as
you spend complaining about it on the forums, you’d be
done by now.”
you spend complaining about it on the forums, you’d be
done by now.”
(edited by Ohoni.6057)
I think this whole discussion comes down to closed thinking.
People associate progression gear with ‘hard’ and raids, so they think progression gear == actual difficult content.
The thread maybe, the situation no. Fact is it exists. If they tune for exotics then ascended is overpowered. You either need to scale the ascended to exotic levels rendering that extra money you spent useless, or tell your players to suck it up and get the best stuff if you want to max out your abilities in raids. That’s the situation. Either works, it’s just who are they more concerned with upsetting? Those that spent the time/money on ascended, or those too lazy to do so? (yes I know it’s an inflammatory way of putting it but really ascended isn’t hard to acquire, it’s tradeable within your account, and weapons/trinkets make up the majority of the power from it which are even easier to acquire than armor).
The problem with this is simple:
Ascended weapons and trinkets are about a 3% boost.full armor is an additional 2% boost.
Picking the wrong utility skill or trait has a massively greater effect on your effectiveness, offensively or defensively than ‘full ascended’ ever will.
And they can’t tune to that fine a level If they attune to the 2% of full ascended armor, that means that they’ve already tuned to the most efficient group/build makeup that they can think of . Yeah they want it hard, but doing that is suicide — also nearly impossible.
The numbers on ascended gear is well known (although I see some people occasionally throw some crazy numbers out, the math’s been worked many times, including a few in this thread). Given that, it’s just not meaningful, one is left wondering why people are so convinced it is. I have 2 reasons.
1) A dev said it was required (later retracted to reccomended) and they still haven’t fully retracted that statement.
2) Players associate gear progression with raiding so it ‘makes sense’ to them.
Where are you getting those numbers? As far as I’m aware Weapons + Trinkets is a 12.5% dps boost (remember things multiply) for power damage, and armor another about 2.5 for a ~15% total.
I took that partiular example from upthread somewhere (or my memory of it).
Even granting I’m remembering wrong about weapons/trinkets, the numbers for armor are close, and armor is the primary cost in ‘full ascended’.
So take the revised statement: “Partial ascended is recommended for all raids, and the late ones recommend full ascended.” If I grant 10%, the ‘partial’ kind of works, but in what world does the ‘full’ work?
Ascended armor still cannot be a meaningful limitation
Naw Armor won’t be a huge thing, but it could be the difference between a near win and a failure.
Only in the absolute least way. So many other things have more impact,
I think this whole discussion comes down to closed thinking.
People associate progression gear with ‘hard’ and raids, so they think progression gear == actual difficult content.
The thread maybe, the situation no. Fact is it exists. If they tune for exotics then ascended is overpowered. You either need to scale the ascended to exotic levels rendering that extra money you spent useless, or tell your players to suck it up and get the best stuff if you want to max out your abilities in raids. That’s the situation. Either works, it’s just who are they more concerned with upsetting? Those that spent the time/money on ascended, or those too lazy to do so? (yes I know it’s an inflammatory way of putting it but really ascended isn’t hard to acquire, it’s tradeable within your account, and weapons/trinkets make up the majority of the power from it which are even easier to acquire than armor).
The problem with this is simple:
Ascended weapons and trinkets are about a 3% boost.full armor is an additional 2% boost.
Picking the wrong utility skill or trait has a massively greater effect on your effectiveness, offensively or defensively than ‘full ascended’ ever will.
And they can’t tune to that fine a level If they attune to the 2% of full ascended armor, that means that they’ve already tuned to the most efficient group/build makeup that they can think of . Yeah they want it hard, but doing that is suicide — also nearly impossible.
The numbers on ascended gear is well known (although I see some people occasionally throw some crazy numbers out, the math’s been worked many times, including a few in this thread). Given that, it’s just not meaningful, one is left wondering why people are so convinced it is. I have 2 reasons.
1) A dev said it was required (later retracted to reccomended) and they still haven’t fully retracted that statement.
2) Players associate gear progression with raiding so it ‘makes sense’ to them.
Where are you getting those numbers? As far as I’m aware Weapons + Trinkets is a 12.5% dps boost (remember things multiply) for power damage, and armor another about 2.5 for a ~15% total.
I took that partiular example from upthread somewhere (or my memory of it).
Even granting I’m remembering wrong about weapons/trinkets, the numbers for armor are close, and armor is the primary cost in ‘full ascended’.
So take the revised statement: “Partial ascended is recommended for all raids, and the late ones recommend full ascended.” If I grant 10%, the ‘partial’ kind of works, but in what world does the ‘full’ work?
Ascended armor still cannot be a meaningful limitation
Naw Armor won’t be a huge thing, but it could be the difference between a near win and a failure.
Only in the absolute least way. So many other things have more impact,
really depends how much unavoidable damage is in raids as the game continues.
3% reduction in damage compounds with healing in long fights.
and even though you dont believe it, they can optimize fight success on having protection up/90% of the time and clearing conditions within 2-3 seconds, as well as strong average heal per second while still maintaing X dps on a boss ( to beat enrage)
its just mathematics at that point.
I think this whole discussion comes down to closed thinking.
People associate progression gear with ‘hard’ and raids, so they think progression gear == actual difficult content.
The thread maybe, the situation no. Fact is it exists. If they tune for exotics then ascended is overpowered. You either need to scale the ascended to exotic levels rendering that extra money you spent useless, or tell your players to suck it up and get the best stuff if you want to max out your abilities in raids. That’s the situation. Either works, it’s just who are they more concerned with upsetting? Those that spent the time/money on ascended, or those too lazy to do so? (yes I know it’s an inflammatory way of putting it but really ascended isn’t hard to acquire, it’s tradeable within your account, and weapons/trinkets make up the majority of the power from it which are even easier to acquire than armor).
The problem with this is simple:
Ascended weapons and trinkets are about a 3% boost.full armor is an additional 2% boost.
Picking the wrong utility skill or trait has a massively greater effect on your effectiveness, offensively or defensively than ‘full ascended’ ever will.
And they can’t tune to that fine a level If they attune to the 2% of full ascended armor, that means that they’ve already tuned to the most efficient group/build makeup that they can think of . Yeah they want it hard, but doing that is suicide — also nearly impossible.
The numbers on ascended gear is well known (although I see some people occasionally throw some crazy numbers out, the math’s been worked many times, including a few in this thread). Given that, it’s just not meaningful, one is left wondering why people are so convinced it is. I have 2 reasons.
1) A dev said it was required (later retracted to reccomended) and they still haven’t fully retracted that statement.
2) Players associate gear progression with raiding so it ‘makes sense’ to them.
Where are you getting those numbers? As far as I’m aware Weapons + Trinkets is a 12.5% dps boost (remember things multiply) for power damage, and armor another about 2.5 for a ~15% total.
I took that partiular example from upthread somewhere (or my memory of it).
Even granting I’m remembering wrong about weapons/trinkets, the numbers for armor are close, and armor is the primary cost in ‘full ascended’.
So take the revised statement: “Partial ascended is recommended for all raids, and the late ones recommend full ascended.” If I grant 10%, the ‘partial’ kind of works, but in what world does the ‘full’ work?
Ascended armor still cannot be a meaningful limitation
Naw Armor won’t be a huge thing, but it could be the difference between a near win and a failure.
Only in the absolute least way. So many other things have more impact,
really depends how much unavoidable damage is in raids as the game continues.
3% reduction in damage compounds with healing in long fights.
and even though you dont believe it, they can optimize fight success on having protection up/90% of the time and clearing conditions within 2-3 seconds, as well as strong average heal per second while still maintaing X dps on a boss ( to beat enrage)
its just mathematics at that point.
I know they can, I don’t think they will.
It’s too restrictive, and they want this to be a major game feature.
I think this whole discussion comes down to closed thinking.
People associate progression gear with ‘hard’ and raids, so they think progression gear == actual difficult content.
The thread maybe, the situation no. Fact is it exists. If they tune for exotics then ascended is overpowered. You either need to scale the ascended to exotic levels rendering that extra money you spent useless, or tell your players to suck it up and get the best stuff if you want to max out your abilities in raids. That’s the situation. Either works, it’s just who are they more concerned with upsetting? Those that spent the time/money on ascended, or those too lazy to do so? (yes I know it’s an inflammatory way of putting it but really ascended isn’t hard to acquire, it’s tradeable within your account, and weapons/trinkets make up the majority of the power from it which are even easier to acquire than armor).
The problem with this is simple:
Ascended weapons and trinkets are about a 3% boost.full armor is an additional 2% boost.
Picking the wrong utility skill or trait has a massively greater effect on your effectiveness, offensively or defensively than ‘full ascended’ ever will.
And they can’t tune to that fine a level If they attune to the 2% of full ascended armor, that means that they’ve already tuned to the most efficient group/build makeup that they can think of . Yeah they want it hard, but doing that is suicide — also nearly impossible.
The numbers on ascended gear is well known (although I see some people occasionally throw some crazy numbers out, the math’s been worked many times, including a few in this thread). Given that, it’s just not meaningful, one is left wondering why people are so convinced it is. I have 2 reasons.
1) A dev said it was required (later retracted to reccomended) and they still haven’t fully retracted that statement.
2) Players associate gear progression with raiding so it ‘makes sense’ to them.
Where are you getting those numbers? As far as I’m aware Weapons + Trinkets is a 12.5% dps boost (remember things multiply) for power damage, and armor another about 2.5 for a ~15% total.
I took that partiular example from upthread somewhere (or my memory of it).
Even granting I’m remembering wrong about weapons/trinkets, the numbers for armor are close, and armor is the primary cost in ‘full ascended’.
So take the revised statement: “Partial ascended is recommended for all raids, and the late ones recommend full ascended.” If I grant 10%, the ‘partial’ kind of works, but in what world does the ‘full’ work?
Ascended armor still cannot be a meaningful limitation
Naw Armor won’t be a huge thing, but it could be the difference between a near win and a failure.
Only in the absolute least way. So many other things have more impact,
really depends how much unavoidable damage is in raids as the game continues.
3% reduction in damage compounds with healing in long fights.
and even though you dont believe it, they can optimize fight success on having protection up/90% of the time and clearing conditions within 2-3 seconds, as well as strong average heal per second while still maintaing X dps on a boss ( to beat enrage)
its just mathematics at that point.
I know they can, I don’t think they will.
It’s too restrictive, and they want this to be a major game feature.
This exactly. The issue here is simply that if they balance around having that ~2-5% damage/healing/mitigation increase from armor, suddenly there is a required party comp and build set up, to do the raid. Because there is more than a 2% difference even among builds of the same class, much less between the classes. I know they can do this, but two things stop them imo. 1) Doing so goes greatly against basically everything in the game so far. 2) I’m honestly doubtful about the devs ability to play the game at a high level, or even math it. Their idea of an ‘ideal party’ could be very different from what actually comes about.
The core issue here, is for them to make Ascended mandatory, would make things FAR more toxic than it will be with the community enforcing Ascended. Because it would basically mean that only X classes would even be allowed into the raid. Y and Z need not apply. Sounds familiar right? Except this time Y and Z literally cannot do enough damage/healing to even bother taking along, so even the proponents for variety don’t have a leg to stand on. I feel like they should have at least learned from what’s going on with dungeons. I hope…
(edited by Kalriostraz.6819)
I can’t wait for the exploding heads when the people who think Ascended gear is too much homework discover that the test run of raids during BWE3 turned off the UMPTEEM MILLION xp grind to unlock a bunch of masteries to scale down the automatic damage and the special armor piercing skills required to even think about setting foot in the raid instance.
Ascended gear may not be mandatory, but have no illusions about the mastery grind attunement process…
“You keep saying ‘its unfair.’
I wonder what your basis for comparison is…”
- Jareth, King of Goblins.
I wonder what your basis for comparison is…”
- Jareth, King of Goblins.
The core issue here, is for them to make Ascended mandatory, would make things FAR more toxic than it will be with the community enforcing Ascended. Because it would basically mean that only X classes would even be allowed into the raid.
Not really. Toxicity is caused by things being implied, not by it being enforced. If ANet absolutely requires Ascended gear, then players have no reason to dislike each other, it’s not other players’ fault, it’s ANet’s fault. If ANet does not require it, but does make it a significant enough advantage that the community enforces it among themselves, then that is creating tension within the community between those players that don’t have Ascended and those that exclude them.
It would be better for the game’s community if ANet decided to either make the Ascended armor mandatory OR make it irrelevant, but the current limbo state is an unnecessary cause for strife.
“If you spent as much time working on [some task] as
you spend complaining about it on the forums, you’d be
done by now.”
you spend complaining about it on the forums, you’d be
done by now.”
Ascended Gear to be Required for Raids
in Guild Wars 2: Heart of Thorns
Posted by: IndigoSundown.5419
Legendaries are ascended tier with a unique skin and a QoL feature, not a tier of their own.
Qol just behind the abilty to swap stats without cost & on the fly.
I don’t see how this can’t be useful….
You can have the skin; I don’t care & you will be able to show off as a raider
The QoL; I do care.
I don’t. Without the ability to swap runes, swapping stats is just a sideshow.
If you truly believe that ANet can and should do whatever they want, then step out of the way, let the players make their case, and let ANet decide. If you truly believe that whatever ANet decides is the right way to go, then you have no reason to get involved in the discussion.
This is comming from someone who has been assaulting other people for having a certain opinion… We aren’t the one starting this discussion mate, every single one of the people that is making the argument against you is someone who’s opinion you started bashing. I and many others will let it go, if you stop belittling people for their opinion. As you said, it’s up to Arenanet, so stop reposting your opinion 5000 times, they know it already…
If you are looking for a cozy mature Dutch guild (EU) let me know.
That’s nice for you. Some of us aren’t so lucky. I’ve never seen an ascended drop, and I’ll be surprised if I ever do. They’re just not that common for most of us.
I got my first Ascended drop just the other day. It came out of a Princess poop. Three years and that’s the first I’ve gotten though.
Thats because you don’t do high level Fractals – why suddenly in such a fuss over new high end content when you’ve avoided it for 2 years… Its not designed for people like you – I’m not saying the way you play the game is wrong but you clearly have interests that don’t cover “difficult” content, so why try and inflict your philosphy on people who do like that content?
Ascended Gear to be Required for Raids
in Guild Wars 2: Heart of Thorns
Posted by: boomersooner.4612
ascended is only 5% increase you can do it with exotics easy with no trouble.
I don’t think getting 1 set of ascended armor is expensive. But getting multiple set is. And raid just might need multiple set with different stats.
Even legendary owners are complaining about the cost to craft multiple sets of gear to switch runes/sigil.
Not to mention it get really cumbersome to carry so many different sets of gear with different sigil/rune.
(edited by laokoko.7403)
Thats because you don’t do high level Fractals – why suddenly in such a fuss over new high end content when you’ve avoided it for 2 years…
Because it’s not Fractals. I’ve done all the Fractals, I have no interest in doing them again, and again, and gain, and again.
I’m not saying the way you play the game is wrong but you clearly have interests that don’t cover “difficult” content, so why try and inflict your philosphy on people who do like that content?
Because ANet seems intent on making it a significant part of the game, by making it the course of Legendary Precursor armors and a continuation of the story. If they were as vestigial as the Fractals then it wouldn’t be an issue.
“If you spent as much time working on [some task] as
you spend complaining about it on the forums, you’d be
done by now.”
you spend complaining about it on the forums, you’d be
done by now.”
Ohoni, don’t you already have a thread to discuss your displeasure with the reward structure without even further derailing this one?
Ohoni, don’t you already have a thread to discuss your displeasure with the reward structure without even further derailing this one?
Lol, I’m not “derailing” anything, I’m just following the flow of the conversation. These elements are all inextricably connected.
“If you spent as much time working on [some task] as
you spend complaining about it on the forums, you’d be
done by now.”
you spend complaining about it on the forums, you’d be
done by now.”
Just answer that :
I can’t find one QoL that have been hide behind a gamemode (if you do have one enligthen me).
I did.
Lol, I’m not “derailing” anything, I’m just following the flow of the conversation. These elements are all inextricably connected.
((looks at thread title))
No… I’m pretty sure this thread has nothing to do with reward structures.
“You keep saying ‘its unfair.’
I wonder what your basis for comparison is…”
- Jareth, King of Goblins.
I wonder what your basis for comparison is…”
- Jareth, King of Goblins.
Lol, I’m not “derailing” anything, I’m just following the flow of the conversation. These elements are all inextricably connected.
((looks at thread title))
No… I’m pretty sure this thread has nothing to do with reward structures.
Ascended gear is, and has been, part of GW2’s reward structure for years. This thread references a requirement (not saying that I agree with the assertion of said requirement) for top tier equipment rewards from old content in order to completion certain new content.
This thread has everything to do with reward structures.
Ascended Gear to be Required for Raids
in Guild Wars 2: Heart of Thorns
Posted by: Astralporing.1957
ascended is only 5% increase you can do it with exotics easy with no trouble.
Have you done it easy and no trouble in exotics? No? I thought so.
Actions, not words.
Remember, remember, 15th of November
Remember, remember, 15th of November
Lol, I’m not “derailing” anything, I’m just following the flow of the conversation. These elements are all inextricably connected.
((looks at thread title))
No… I’m pretty sure this thread has nothing to do with reward structures.
Ascended gear is, and has been, part of GW2’s reward structure for years. This thread references a requirement (not saying that I agree with the assertion of said requirement) for top tier equipment rewards from old content in order to completion certain new content.
This thread has everything to do with reward structures.
The title is also misleading as Arenanet later confirmed the non-requirement for Ascended for raids. If the thread were renamed ‘Ascended Gear to be Recommended for Raids’ this entire discourse would have been much shorter and less stressful.
The reward structures for equipment that is recommended is less problematic than equipment that is required, no?
Suicidal Warrior.
Putting Perspective on Zerg Sizes since 2012. Common Suffixes for 40+ include ~Zilla and ~Train
“Seriously, just dodge.”
Putting Perspective on Zerg Sizes since 2012. Common Suffixes for 40+ include ~Zilla and ~Train
“Seriously, just dodge.”
The reward structures for equipment that is recommended is less problematic than equipment that is required, no?
Not really. “Required” places the onus on the developers to fix it. They made the requirement, they are the only ones who can change it. “Recommended” puts the onus on the players, and if a group of players doesn’t want you along because they’ve decided to take that “recommendation” to heart, then you get excluded, even though you don’t strictly have to be excluded. This creates more internecine toxicity, between those players that demand ideal compositions, and those players that resent that demand.
“If you spent as much time working on [some task] as
you spend complaining about it on the forums, you’d be
done by now.”
you spend complaining about it on the forums, you’d be
done by now.”
That happens regardless of any marginally difficult content that ‘requires’ a group (I know dungeons can be done solo, but we know what their intent was).
The onus is definitely on the players, and the entirety of how raids will be carried out is on us most definitely. The degree of which toxicity will occur though, is still completely up in the air. We can only go with what the community is doing right now, how groups of friends and guilds are working with current content.
Suicidal Warrior.
Putting Perspective on Zerg Sizes since 2012. Common Suffixes for 40+ include ~Zilla and ~Train
“Seriously, just dodge.”
Putting Perspective on Zerg Sizes since 2012. Common Suffixes for 40+ include ~Zilla and ~Train
“Seriously, just dodge.”
Thats because you don’t do high level Fractals – why suddenly in such a fuss over new high end content when you’ve avoided it for 2 years…
Because it’s not Fractals. I’ve done all the Fractals, I have no interest in doing them again, and again, and gain, and again.
I’m not saying the way you play the game is wrong but you clearly have interests that don’t cover “difficult” content, so why try and inflict your philosphy on people who do like that content?
Because ANet seems intent on making it a significant part of the game, by making it the course of Legendary Precursor armors and a continuation of the story. If they were as vestigial as the Fractals then it wouldn’t be an issue.
strictly speaking, i think they said its the equivalent of a side story, but maybe they changed their plan
That happens regardless of any marginally difficult content that ‘requires’ a group (I know dungeons can be done solo, but we know what their intent was).
The onus is definitely on the players, and the entirety of how raids will be carried out is on us most definitely. The degree of which toxicity will occur though, is still completely up in the air. We can only go with what the community is doing right now, how groups of friends and guilds are working with current content.
Its all good to say its up the players how they handle things, but if you build a road, people will walk it.
Design plays a large part of how people will interact with the world.
since ascended is no longer a prestige type stat increase, the methods of aquisition need to change to reflect that.
Since it looks like ascended is primarily for high difficulty stuff, the faster means of aquisition should focus on difficult content.
In my opinion, it shouldnt take a month of grinding or time gates to get be ready for raids.
Also i believe they need to abandon the current gearing/inventory system, and go with a system of
wardrobes for appearance
stat equipment unlocks for stats.
they seem to be trying to promote multiple sets of ascended, and build tweaking, but the item system present doesnt create that type of gameplay, due to sigil/runes/inventory/time to obtain/appearance
1st have more faith in the gw2 community, you will be able to run with exotics all you want, there will be groups who don’t really care. Not everyone is a kitten you know? Of all my dungeon and fractal runnings maybe only 10% of the groups I meet are kittenes. 2nd ascended doesn’t take 1 month of GRINDING, it only takes 10 mins of crafting a day. If you want to bypass the time gate spend more gold. The majority of players with ascended all went through the same process to get theirs why must the devs make it easier to obtain just because you are too lazy to obtain yours? Furthermore if it takes 1 month to get ascended why didn’t you start 1 month ago? You would than have your ascended by now and won’t be here complaining. Everyday you spend complaining and refusing to start on your ascended it adds 1 day to that month. I’ve now only been playing a week since I got back and have swapped 5 of my exotic armor with ascended. The only thing I do to achieve this is to spend 10 minutes crafting bolt of damask when I log in and do 1 fractal of the highest I can do. That is all 1 hour and 10 mins and day. Ofc I have a reserve of a few gold to help me craft that bolt of damask. You don’t really need to GRIND for it.
ascended is only 5% increase you can do it with exotics easy with no trouble.
Have you done it easy and no trouble in exotics? No? I thought so.
High fractals? I have. In fact, it’s common until you get to 50 where AR starts becoming a real issue. 49 tho? Lots of times.
Lol, I’m not “derailing” anything, I’m just following the flow of the conversation. These elements are all inextricably connected.
((looks at thread title))
No… I’m pretty sure this thread has nothing to do with reward structures.
Ascended gear is, and has been, part of GW2’s reward structure for years. This thread references a requirement (not saying that I agree with the assertion of said requirement) for top tier equipment rewards from old content in order to completion certain new content.
This thread has everything to do with reward structures.
The title is also misleading as Arenanet later confirmed the non-requirement for Ascended for raids. If the thread were renamed ‘Ascended Gear to be Recommended for Raids’ this entire discourse would have been much shorter and less stressful.
The reward structures for equipment that is recommended is less problematic than equipment that is required, no?
That’s part of the narrative for me though. Normally I like to defend the devs, but the person who started it all shot their mouths off and got Anet some pain with some prima facie incorrect info.
Ascended Gear to be Required for Raids
in Guild Wars 2: Heart of Thorns
Posted by: Astralporing.1957
1st have more faith in the gw2 community, you will be able to run with exotics all you want, there will be groups who don’t really care. .
They will care, because, unlike in dungeons, it will actually matter.
ascended is only 5% increase you can do it with exotics easy with no trouble.
Have you done it easy and no trouble in exotics? No? I thought so.
High fractals? I have. In fact, it’s common until you get to 50 where AR starts becoming a real issue. 49 tho? Lots of times.
Raids, that’s what we are talking about.
By the way, fractals, even though they require AR, are actually balanced around exotic stats. And there’s no real meaningful difference between losing 66% (level 40) or 84% (level 50) of full hp per tick, so i assume you were either running with partial ascended, or skipped level 40.
Actions, not words.
Remember, remember, 15th of November
Remember, remember, 15th of November
(edited by Astralporing.1957)
in context of the post directly above his it’s fractals :p
More to the point, you don’t know either. There was less than a days worth of chances to learn/see the encounter, with free gear as you wish it.
But we can modify: It’s extremely unlikely that full ascended will matter and fairly unlikely that any kind of ascended will matter at all.
In my opinion, it shouldnt take a month of grinding or time gates to get be ready for raids.
To be honest I do not agree with this. Don’t get me wrong, “grinding” is one thing I truly dislike, but why don’t you see this from the perspective of difficulty? Why do you expect, or even want, players to go directly into Raids?
You are talking about a “gate” required for players before they enter the Raid. But do you honestly believe that players who haven’t done Fractals / Dungeons will have any luck in Raids? Would you really want someone to come with you in the raid that hasn’t ever run a Dungeon or is only at level 8 in Fractals? Those things alone mean his experience in GW2 instanced content is very limited, so their ability to help in the Raid will also be severely limited.
If we are to believe that Raids will be much harder than any other current content, then shouldn’t everyone spend at least a month running the lower difficulty instanced content of the game? Before trying the Raid? And if you actually spend some time in Fractals, chances are you will get a lot of your Ascended items already.
You are talking about a “gate” required for players before they enter the Raid. But do you honestly believe that players who haven’t done Fractals / Dungeons will have any luck in Raids? Would you really want someone to come with you in the raid that hasn’t ever run a Dungeon or is only at level 8 in Fractals? Those things alone mean his experience in GW2 instanced content is very limited, so their ability to help in the Raid will also be severely limited.
Let them decide that, don’t force the issue with gear. The whole point of a gear progression (or one of them) isto delay access to content. It makes the content ‘last longer’, but I’m always for letting people try.
And again, that ignores the gear swapping issue. If full ascended is that important success (it’s not), it’s in essence locking people into one role, which is anathema to everything GW stands for. I know people that have done over 1000 fractals (I’m one of them) that haven’t gotten enough drops or stuff in the pieces they need to have more than one set of ascended armor for their characters (alhtough generally it’s because they’ve taken the chance to spread them out over multiple classes). If you need ascended clerics gear for your role, good luck getting a dps set in that type for the next several months.
And that is the problem
(or would be if the limitation wasn’t bs)
Ascended Gear to be Required for Raids
in Guild Wars 2: Heart of Thorns
Posted by: Astralporing.1957
in context of the post directly above his it’s fractals :p
More to the point, you don’t know either. There was less than a days worth of chances to learn/see the encounter, with free gear as you wish it.
But we can modify: It’s extremely unlikely that full ascended will matter and fairly unlikely that any kind of ascended will matter at all.
Quite the opposite, what we saw so far has shown us that having bigger stats will matter. Maybe having full exotics will not be a guarantee of failure, but it’s going to significantly increase chances of failing.
Actions, not words.
Remember, remember, 15th of November
Remember, remember, 15th of November
Maybe having full exotics will not be a guarantee of failure, but it’s going to significantly increase chances of failing.
This is a lie, +20 Primary Stats and +16 Secondary Stats (the benefit of full Ascended Armour) will never “significantly” increase your chances of winning. Do not fall for this argument it is NONSENSE.
Ascended Gear to be Required for Raids
in Guild Wars 2: Heart of Thorns
Posted by: Astralporing.1957
Maybe having full exotics will not be a guarantee of failure, but it’s going to significantly increase chances of failing.
This is a lie, +20 Primary Stats and +16 Secondary Stats (the benefit of full Ascended Armour) will never “significantly” increase your chances of winning. Do not fall for this argument it is NONSENSE.
“Full exotics”. Learn to read.
Actions, not words.
Remember, remember, 15th of November
Remember, remember, 15th of November
Maybe having full exotics will not be a guarantee of failure, but it’s going to significantly increase chances of failing.
This is a lie, +20 Primary Stats and +16 Secondary Stats (the benefit of full Ascended Armour) will never “significantly” increase your chances of winning. Do not fall for this argument it is NONSENSE.
“Full exotics”. Learn to read.
“Full Exotics” means you have a play time of less than a month, raiding isn’t for you… Learn to think.
In my opinion, it shouldnt take a month of grinding or time gates to get be ready for raids.
To be honest I do not agree with this. Don’t get me wrong, “grinding” is one thing I truly dislike, but why don’t you see this from the perspective of difficulty? Why do you expect, or even want, players to go directly into Raids?
You are talking about a “gate” required for players before they enter the Raid. But do you honestly believe that players who haven’t done Fractals / Dungeons will have any luck in Raids? Would you really want someone to come with you in the raid that hasn’t ever run a Dungeon or is only at level 8 in Fractals? Those things alone mean his experience in GW2 instanced content is very limited, so their ability to help in the Raid will also be severely limited.
If we are to believe that Raids will be much harder than any other current content, then shouldn’t everyone spend at least a month running the lower difficulty instanced content of the game? Before trying the Raid? And if you actually spend some time in Fractals, chances are you will get a lot of your Ascended items already.
Fractal level of 10 is all thats needed.
What you are saying might be true if ascended was given for skill, but its not.
Ascended is currently primarily a gold grind based system for weapons and armor (which is mindless grind in current ear ing meta)
Time gated for necklace
Time gated and social gated for accessories
And gold/grind gated for back piece
Ascended is primarily a minimal participation award.
Truth is people get better by doing difficult things. The content that will best get people ready for raids currently is raids.
Most dungeon runs barely require you to pay attention, and hivh level fractals is nice, but way more repetition than is necessary to adapt to the skill curve.
I think a fresh 80 who wants to learn will perform similarly to an old 80 who has full ascended and never touched a fractal, and perform similarly to most people who have got to fractal 10 for some acessories.
If they had a raid progression, or content that needed teamwork communication and undertsnading of your builds strengths, weaknesses etc, sure beat that before you get to raids, but ascended is extremely far from that.
And even if they did, it should not be designed such that you must play x content everyday for a month. It should adapt to the skills and knowledge of the player in question. Some people may take a week, some may take a month, some may take 6 months.
Maybe having full exotics will not be a guarantee of failure, but it’s going to significantly increase chances of failing.
This is a lie, +20 Primary Stats and +16 Secondary Stats (the benefit of full Ascended Armour) will never “significantly” increase your chances of winning. Do not fall for this argument it is NONSENSE.
“Full exotics”. Learn to read.
“Full Exotics” means you have a play time of less than a month, raiding isn’t for you… Learn to think.
There are many prople who. Can play at a level of raids without needing a month of play.
Its like you using how long someone owned basketball sneakers as a measure of their skill.
Maybe having full exotics will not be a guarantee of failure, but it’s going to significantly increase chances of failing.
This is a lie, +20 Primary Stats and +16 Secondary Stats (the benefit of full Ascended Armour) will never “significantly” increase your chances of winning. Do not fall for this argument it is NONSENSE.
“Full exotics”. Learn to read.
“Full Exotics” means you have a play time of less than a month, raiding isn’t for you… Learn to think.
There are many prople who. Can play at a level of raids without needing a month of play.
Its like you using how long someone owned basketball sneakers as a measure of their skill.
And for those people the gear difference isn’t likely to be important.
As an aside, if we take the larger number for ascended weapons (~10%) I have the sense that’s calculated purely as DPS, am I correct or mistaken?