Guild Wars 2

Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582:

Seera.5916:

Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582:

Shivan.9438:

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Exploit

“ArenaNet defines an exploit as any deliberate action that provides an unfair advantage over other players or otherwise hurts the game, community, or economy; it does not matter whether the exploit is a hack or makes use of a mechanic (bugged or otherwise) within the game.”

Multi-mapping is an exploit. People are manipulating how maps stay open and close in order to get loot. Manipulating the server this way is indeed and exploit. Loot or not.

Re-read the unbolded part of your own cut/paste again. It doesn’t matter if people manipulate the way the game works or server unless they gain an unfair advantage over other players or hurt the game or economy. AB Multi is not unfair, anyone can take part. It does not hurt the game and it is good for the economy by driving down prices for demand items, meaning even those that do not take part are gaining an advantage, so in reality, its very positive for the game in general.

Depends entirely on what their definition of unfair is. One could argue that multi-mapping is unfair because it gives a lot more mats to players who do it than to those who don’t. More loot = more gold.

It’s definitely complicated since the extra loot does lower the equilibrium price for several mats. But whether or not that outweighs the advantage is unknown to anyone but ANet.

All we players can do is take their action or their inaction and take our best guess based on that information.

By that logic, doing events in Cursed Shore for loot is unfair because its better than standing in LA doing nothing.

If you want to make as much gold as possible in a given time frame, you can choose to do AB multi, if not then you can do something else. There is always a best way to make gold. AB Multi just happens to also drive down prices so much that its also a benefit to those who choose to not participate in it.

Given that every other major world boss is once per cycle or once per day it’s not hard to imagine that multiple times per cycle multiple times per day is likely not something ANet intended.

ANet intended going out into Cursed Shore and doing events to earn more loot than sitting Lion’s Arch.

And you seem to have missed (understandably so given the speed of this thread) that I believe that ANet no longer thinks it’s an exploit and AB Multi-loot has become emergent game play and therefore no longer an exploit. It takes work and you’re limited to the number of keys you can generate between the event. Not to mention the effect the increased loot has on mat prices.

Seera.5916:

Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582:

Seera.5916:

Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582:

Shivan.9438:

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Exploit

“ArenaNet defines an exploit as any deliberate action that provides an unfair advantage over other players or otherwise hurts the game, community, or economy; it does not matter whether the exploit is a hack or makes use of a mechanic (bugged or otherwise) within the game.”

Multi-mapping is an exploit. People are manipulating how maps stay open and close in order to get loot. Manipulating the server this way is indeed and exploit. Loot or not.

Re-read the unbolded part of your own cut/paste again. It doesn’t matter if people manipulate the way the game works or server unless they gain an unfair advantage over other players or hurt the game or economy. AB Multi is not unfair, anyone can take part. It does not hurt the game and it is good for the economy by driving down prices for demand items, meaning even those that do not take part are gaining an advantage, so in reality, its very positive for the game in general.

Depends entirely on what their definition of unfair is. One could argue that multi-mapping is unfair because it gives a lot more mats to players who do it than to those who don’t. More loot = more gold.

It’s definitely complicated since the extra loot does lower the equilibrium price for several mats. But whether or not that outweighs the advantage is unknown to anyone but ANet.

All we players can do is take their action or their inaction and take our best guess based on that information.

By that logic, doing events in Cursed Shore for loot is unfair because its better than standing in LA doing nothing.

If you want to make as much gold as possible in a given time frame, you can choose to do AB multi, if not then you can do something else. There is always a best way to make gold. AB Multi just happens to also drive down prices so much that its also a benefit to those who choose to not participate in it.

Given that every other major world boss is once per cycle or once per day it’s not hard to imagine that multiple times per cycle multiple times per day is likely not something ANet intended.

ANet intended going out into Cursed Shore and doing events to earn more loot than sitting Lion’s Arch.

And you seem to have missed (understandably so given the speed of this thread) that I believe that ANet no longer thinks it’s an exploit and AB Multi-loot has become emergent game play and therefore no longer an exploit. It takes work and you’re limited to the number of keys you can generate between the event. Not to mention the effect the increased loot has on mat prices.

Ah, but ANet made adjustments to limit the amount of farming done in CS, they didn’t see that as emergent gameplay, they just saw it as too profitable, so they reduced the spawn times of events, changed the tier of mobs and modified the drop tables to make it less profitable. But CS is not limited by keys and map currency.

They have made no changes or suggestions that they are looking at changing AB multi. We discussed emergent game play earlier when I called AB Multi Unintended Use. And I do believe that it is unintended, but that doesn’t change the fact that its allowed to happen, I think they realise they have an issue with materials costing too much, ie the supply is too low when compared to the demand, and it is affecting the economy negatively, which is why this is allowed to continue, it has positive benefits to the economy as a whole.

Well, it’s most definitely effecting the economy. In one month ecto supply has gone from its normal, historical level of around 50k to over 500k, and showing no signs of slowing down. That’s a huge jump in supply and way beyond what the game has seen in the four years it’s been played.

If you go to full history and then all, the rate of increase in ecto supply in this one month looks exponential. It’s an incredible increase in supply in a short time of an important item in the economy with no sign of leveling off, and that’s not something that economists normally want.
Glob of ectoplasm

Ashen.2907:

Is it not, “conjecture and assumption,” very reasonable and likely in my opinion, that it is an exploit? At least until Anet makes a statement as to the matter of design intention?

I dislike it. Find it abhorrent in fact, but dont feel that I can speak for Anet in declaring their intent (even if I do have an opinion on the matter).

It is assumption that the exploit has been in existence long enough that it is considered emergent game play; that is a decision that ANet makes. It is conjecture that a thread discussing the possibility of an exploit has not been closed is acknowledgement that it is not an exploit; correlation is not causation. It is conjecture and assumption that the last patch would have fixed the exploit if it is an exploit; we have no information on how difficult, time consuming, or urgent this ‘fix’ would be, despite many people’s claims to the contrary. It is conjecture that a QoL update made to salvage kits was for the purpose of AB multi-mapping; no statement to that effect has been made, it’s a QoL change that affects all areas of the game, and it has been stated that QoL updates are what devs work on in their free time.

Seera.5916:

@EphemeralWallaby: I’ve also never said it wasn’t an exploit. Just that there’s plenty of good evidence to support that it’s no longer an exploit.

What evidence do you have to say that it’s still an exploit?

I stated that in an earlier post, that the actions of AB multi-mapping looting fits the definition of an exploit that I also quoted with it above. There is no time limit on if it remains an exploit, instead the determination of emergent game play is up to ANet to decide, whether it be 2 weeks or 2 years or never. You haven’t yet provided a definition of an exploit that doesn’t fit this phenomenon, where as I have.

~EW

EphemeralWallaby.7643:

Ashen.2907:

Is it not, “conjecture and assumption,” very reasonable and likely in my opinion, that it is an exploit? At least until Anet makes a statement as to the matter of design intention?

I dislike it. Find it abhorrent in fact, but dont feel that I can speak for Anet in declaring their intent (even if I do have an opinion on the matter).

It is assumption that the exploit has been in existence long enough that it is considered emergent game play; that is a decision that ANet makes. It is conjecture that a thread discussing the possibility of an exploit has not been closed is acknowledgement that it is not an exploit; correlation is not causation. It is assumption that the last patch would have fixed the exploit if it is an exploit; we have no information on how difficult, time consuming, or urgent this ‘fix’ would be, despite many people’s claims to the contrary. It is conjecture that a QoL update made to salvage kits was for the purpose of AB multi-mapping; no statement to that effect has been made, it’s a QoL change that affects all areas of the game, and it has been stated that QoL updates are what devs work on in their free time.

Seera.5916:

@EphemeralWallaby: I’ve also never said it wasn’t an exploit. Just that there’s plenty of good evidence to support that it’s no longer an exploit.

What evidence do you have to say that it’s still an exploit?

I stated that in an earlier post, that the actions of AB multi-mapping looting fits the definition of an exploit that I also quoted with it above. There is no time limit on if it remains an exploit, instead the determination of emergent game play is up to ANet to decide, whether it be 2 weeks or 2 years or never. You haven’t yet provided a definition of an exploit that doesn’t fit this phenomenon, where as I have.

~EW

And isn’t it an assumption that multilooting is unintended? Every definition of exploit that I have seen depends on the behavior being unintended by the developers.

Again, I believe that multilooting is unintended and that it is an exploitx but that is opinion, not established fact.

EphemeralWallaby.7643:

Ashen.2907:

Is it not, “conjecture and assumption,” very reasonable and likely in my opinion, that it is an exploit? At least until Anet makes a statement as to the matter of design intention?

I dislike it. Find it abhorrent in fact, but dont feel that I can speak for Anet in declaring their intent (even if I do have an opinion on the matter).

It is assumption that the exploit has been in existence long enough that it is considered emergent game play; that is a decision that ANet makes. It is conjecture that a thread discussing the possibility of an exploit has not been closed is acknowledgement that it is not an exploit; correlation is not causation. It is conjecture and assumption that the last patch would have fixed the exploit if it is an exploit; we have no information on how difficult, time consuming, or urgent this ‘fix’ would be, despite many people’s claims to the contrary. It is conjecture that a QoL update made to salvage kits was for the purpose of AB multi-mapping; no statement to that effect has been made, it’s a QoL change that affects all areas of the game, and it has been stated that QoL updates are what devs work on in their free time.

Seera.5916:

@EphemeralWallaby: I’ve also never said it wasn’t an exploit. Just that there’s plenty of good evidence to support that it’s no longer an exploit.

What evidence do you have to say that it’s still an exploit?

I stated that in an earlier post, that the actions of AB multi-mapping looting fits the definition of an exploit that I also quoted with it above. There is no time limit on if it remains an exploit, instead the determination of emergent game play is up to ANet to decide, whether it be 2 weeks or 2 years or never. You haven’t yet provided a definition of an exploit that doesn’t fit this phenomenon, where as I have.

~EW

Inaction speaks volumes that ANet views AB multi-map looting as emergent gameplay. When patch cycles aren’t long, it doesn’t take much time for inaction to speak volumes.

Seera.5916:

Inaction speaks volumes that ANet views AB multi-map looting as emergent gameplay. When patch cycles aren’t long, it doesn’t take much time for inaction to speak volumes.

Perceived inaction only indicates a lack of urgency to address the exploit. Issues always crop up with MMOs and there’s only so much budget and people to go around… bugs/exploits/etc require triage. Hence the ones that take precedence to address are those that threaten the game, and likely next after that those that are quick to address. I think the perceived inaction speaks to us that the concern of the exploit on the economy is not as threatening as some believe, but no more than that.

Have you considered that such fixes might require changing how the mega servers function? Do you not feel that could be a massive undertaking? Again, if it’s not an a threat to the game’s stability but would require a lot of time to fix, then for all we know the fix is being worked on. It’s just as likely that is the case as it is an example of emergent game play.

~EW

Venatorn.7619:

tl;dr-
“I don’t like it, therefore it is unfair and needs to be changed”

tl;dr –
I’m taking advantage of this, so don’t you dare change it or call me a cheater.

EphemeralWallaby.7643:

Seera.5916:

Inaction speaks volumes that ANet views AB multi-map looting as emergent gameplay. When patch cycles aren’t long, it doesn’t take much time for inaction to speak volumes.

Perceived inaction only indicates a lack of urgency to address the exploit.
~EW

This.

There are bugs in the game now that were there at launch. That doesn’t mean that they are intended, part of some emergent gameplay, or anything other than just a bug that Anet hasn’t fixed yet because there is always more to do than there is man power to do it, and always more getting added to the list. Just because Anet places a lower priority on it than other matters needing development resources does not mean that something is is intended or not a bug.

EphemeralWallaby.7643:

Seera.5916:

Inaction speaks volumes that ANet views AB multi-map looting as emergent gameplay. When patch cycles aren’t long, it doesn’t take much time for inaction to speak volumes.

Perceived inaction only indicates a lack of urgency to address the exploit. Issues always crop up with MMOs and there’s only so much budget and people to go around… bugs/exploits/etc require triage. Hence the ones that take precedence to address are those that threaten the game, and likely next after that those that are quick to address. I think the perceived inaction speaks to us that the concern of the exploit on the economy is not as threatening as some believe, but no more than that.

Have you considered that such fixes might require changing how the mega servers function? Do you not feel that could be a massive undertaking? Again, if it’s not an a threat to the game’s stability but would require a lot of time to fix, then for all we know the fix is being worked on. It’s just as likely that is the case as it is an example of emergent game play.

~EW

But when you combine the lack of it being fixed to the lack of comments by ANet on the issue to things in patches that make multi-mapping easier, it begins to add up to they likely believe it is emergent game play. It’s not 100% certain that they don’t, and I apologize if I came off as that, but that was not my intention.

I believe it is emergent game play that started out as an exploit. I have said that multiple times. Emergent game play comes from unintended game play, which could include exploits, that the game manufacturers have decided is actually ok for the game.

The part of this thread that discusses the economy and the effect of the AB multi-loot on it intrigues me.

But the part of this discussion that’s just a kittening contest over the definition of “exploit” is just tedious. Is it an exploit? Probably. Is it emergent game play? Probably. Does it matter what you call it? Nope. You’re all correct. Everybody wins. Let’s move on.

EDIT: typo

Just a flesh wound.3589:

Well, it’s most definitely effecting the economy. In one month ecto supply has gone from its normal, historical level of around 50k to over 500k, and showing no signs of slowing down. That’s a huge jump in supply and way beyond what the game has seen in the four years it’s been played.

If you go to full history and then all, the rate of increase in ecto supply in this one month looks exponential. It’s an incredible increase in supply in a short time of an important item in the economy with no sign of leveling off, and that’s not something that economists normally want.
Glob of ectoplasm

Regardless of what any economists think, demand items becoming cheaper is better for players. Especially those that do not participate in AB Multi.

The cheaper the materials become, the less profitable AB Multi becomes.

The more items are sold on the TP, the more liquid gold is removed from the economy.

Ashen.2907:

EphemeralWallaby.7643:

Ashen.2907:

Is it not, “conjecture and assumption,” very reasonable and likely in my opinion, that it is an exploit? At least until Anet makes a statement as to the matter of design intention?

I dislike it. Find it abhorrent in fact, but dont feel that I can speak for Anet in declaring their intent (even if I do have an opinion on the matter).

It is assumption that the exploit has been in existence long enough that it is considered emergent game play; that is a decision that ANet makes. It is conjecture that a thread discussing the possibility of an exploit has not been closed is acknowledgement that it is not an exploit; correlation is not causation. It is assumption that the last patch would have fixed the exploit if it is an exploit; we have no information on how difficult, time consuming, or urgent this ‘fix’ would be, despite many people’s claims to the contrary. It is conjecture that a QoL update made to salvage kits was for the purpose of AB multi-mapping; no statement to that effect has been made, it’s a QoL change that affects all areas of the game, and it has been stated that QoL updates are what devs work on in their free time.

Seera.5916:

@EphemeralWallaby: I’ve also never said it wasn’t an exploit. Just that there’s plenty of good evidence to support that it’s no longer an exploit.

What evidence do you have to say that it’s still an exploit?

I stated that in an earlier post, that the actions of AB multi-mapping looting fits the definition of an exploit that I also quoted with it above. There is no time limit on if it remains an exploit, instead the determination of emergent game play is up to ANet to decide, whether it be 2 weeks or 2 years or never. You haven’t yet provided a definition of an exploit that doesn’t fit this phenomenon, where as I have.

~EW

And isn’t it an assumption that multilooting is unintended? Every definition of exploit that I have seen depends on the behavior being unintended by the developers.

Again, I believe that multilooting is unintended and that it is an exploitx but that is opinion, not established fact.

There are strong assumptions and there are weak assumptions.

Can anyone provide a plausible explanation as to why a developer would design an encounter, design loot for the encounter, and yet in this one encounter in all the game players are intended to loot as many times as they can by jumping from map to map? Additionally, can you explain why this encounter is further differentiated by the fact that it provides vastly more loot than any other content in the game?

Of course, the answer is that none of this was intended. Did I hear that from an ANet developer? Of course not. But it’s just common sense in this instance.

Zoltar MacRoth.7146:

The part of this thread that discusses the economy and the effect of the AB multi-loot on it intrigues me.

But the part of this discussion that’s just a kittening contest over the definition of “exploit” is just tedious. Is it an exploit? Probably. Is it emergent game play? Probably. Does it matter what you call it? Nope. You’re all correct. Everybody wins. Let’s move on.

EDIT: typo

I don’t know about the rest of you, but I just like reading the responses trying to explain away the obvious in the hopes that ANet will continue to overlook it if we just do our best not to refer to it as an “exploit”!

Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582:

Just a flesh wound.3589:

Well, it’s most definitely effecting the economy. In one month ecto supply has gone from its normal, historical level of around 50k to over 500k, and showing no signs of slowing down. That’s a huge jump in supply and way beyond what the game has seen in the four years it’s been played.

If you go to full history and then all, the rate of increase in ecto supply in this one month looks exponential. It’s an incredible increase in supply in a short time of an important item in the economy with no sign of leveling off, and that’s not something that economists normally want.
Glob of ectoplasm

Regardless of what any economists think, demand items becoming cheaper is better for players. Especially those that do not participate in AB Multi.

The cheaper the materials become, the less profitable AB Multi becomes.

The more items are sold on the TP, the more liquid gold is removed from the economy.

Regardless of what any economist thinks? Maybe. You’d think that if having supply so high and prices cheap was so good, they would have done it deliberately before this.

Well, since the time that I posted the supply of ectos has increased by an additional 50k and still shows no sign of leveling off.

This could get interesting.

If multiloot were an exploit they would have patched it months ago.

Just a flesh wound.3589:

Well, it’s most definitely effecting the economy. In one month ecto supply has gone from its normal, historical level of around 50k to over 500k, and showing no signs of slowing down. That’s a huge jump in supply and way beyond what the game has seen in the four years it’s been played.

If you go to full history and then all, the rate of increase in ecto supply in this one month looks exponential. It’s an incredible increase in supply in a short time of an important item in the economy with no sign of leveling off, and that’s not something that economists normally want.
Glob of ectoplasm

I think we all agree that it does affect the economy.

But, I think it doesn’t threaten the overall economy. One resource, even one as important as ectos, bottoming out won’t mean that everything else bottoms out too. I think those in this thread that fear for the overall game’s economy do so out of fear of change and a perception of there being some sort of economic status-quo. Status-quo doesn’t exist in GW2; that’s been demonstrated to us all many times and in many ways.

Again, if it were a threat to the game’s economy, then it definitely would have been worked on in some way well before now, no matter how difficult or time consuming it would be. I recall devs saying that they closely monitor the economy.

Seera.5916:

But when you combine the lack of it being fixed to the lack of comments by ANet on the issue to things in patches that make multi-mapping easier, it begins to add up to they likely believe it is emergent game play. It’s not 100% certain that they don’t, and I apologize if I came off as that, but that was not my intention.

I believe it is emergent game play that started out as an exploit. I have said that multiple times. Emergent game play comes from unintended game play, which could include exploits, that the game manufacturers have decided is actually ok for the game.

No worries. I think we just disagree where the line for it becoming emergent game play is. I feel it’s further away from where we are now than you do, is all.

~EW

I’m more concerned about the impact on other content. There have been several recent threads comparing the TD meta to AB. Even without multi-map, AB clearly provides vastly more rewards despite being the easier event to complete by far.

Of course, the solution to that doesn’t rest entirely in fixing the exploit. The more critical piece to that particular issue is to increase TD rewards (because they really need it regardless!). Then again, this isn’t only about the TD meta either.

I also think, that Auric Basin Multiloot has an negative impact on the game, let me explain:

Most progress in GW2 is linked to gold. You want this beautiful Skin, the new Viper ascendet weapon for raids or a new character needs weaponsmith on 500. Almost everything in game could be done if you throw enough gold at it.
But to get gold you have to pay a price. This price depends on different factors. But one major one is time and another one is difficulty. A activity with a good gold/time ratio and easy access is therefor an optimal way of achieving your goals in game.

An mmo should somehow find a balance between this three factors. Harder content should feel rewarding, therefor it needs to have a better gold/time ratio than easier content. Multi loot shifts this. You can join a map in the last 5 minutes of the meta and then go through ~10 maps for the reward. The gold/time ratio is insane. And this has an impact on all other activities. Yes Sorrow’s Embrace path 2 still yields 35s. But in the time you could finish this Dungeon, you could have earned far more in Auric Basin. From this perspective, you did not earn money; You lost the gold amount that you could have earned in Auric Basin in the meantime.

Many people who wants gold for whatever reason, will be focusing on one activity and not a wide area of multiply activities. This is poison for long time enjoyment because so much content feels like a wasted effort.

By looking just at simple activities it is the best for the playerbase, if every activity in this section should have the same gold/time ratio. This will lead to a playerbase who can freely choose which activity they want to complete. A rotation like the daily fractals is also a nice way of achieving this in a different way.

Harder content works the same. The reward for a tier1 fractal is smaller than a tier4 fractal. A tier4 fractal compared with another tier4 fractal should be rewarding in the same way.

You can call it what you want, exploit or gamemechanic. But it has an impact on the game and in my opinion it isnt a good one. Besides enjoyment in itself, every activity should feel rewarding. By having one single activity which exceeds every other activity, it dimishes the feelings of achievement of all others that are linked with the reward.

Margorion.4962:

I also think, that Auric Basin Multiloot has an negative impact on the game, let me explain:

Most progress in GW2 is linked to gold. You want this beautiful Skin, the new Viper ascendet weapon for raids or a new character needs weaponsmith on 500. Almost everything in game could be done if you throw enough gold at it.
But to get gold you have to pay a price. This price depends on different factors. But one major one is time and another one is difficulty. A activity with a good gold/time ratio and easy access is therefor an optimal way of achieving your goals in game.

An mmo should somehow find a balance between this three factors. Harder content should feel rewarding, therefor it needs to have a better gold/time ratio than easier content. Multi loot shifts this. You can join a map in the last 5 minutes of the meta and then go through ~10 maps for the reward. The gold/time ratio is insane. And this has an impact on all other activities. Yes Sorrow’s Embrace path 2 still yields 35s. But in the time you could finish this Dungeon, you could have earned far more in Auric Basin. From this perspective, you did not earn money; You lost the gold amount that you could have earned in Auric Basin in the meantime.

Many people who wants gold for whatever reason, will be focusing on one activity and not a wide area of multiply activities. This is poison for long time enjoyment because so much content feels like a wasted effort.

By looking just at simple activities it is the best for the playerbase, if every activity in this section should have the same gold/time ratio. This will lead to a playerbase who can freely choose which activity they want to complete. A rotation like the daily fractals is also a nice way of achieving this in a different way.

Harder content works the same. The reward for a tier1 fractal is smaller than a tier4 fractal. A tier4 fractal compared with another tier4 fractal should be rewarding in the same way.

You can call it what you want, exploit or gamemechanic. But it has an impact on the game and in my opinion it isnt a good one. Besides enjoyment in itself, every activity should feel rewarding. By having one single activity which exceeds every other activity, it dimishes the feelings of achievement of all others that are linked with the reward.

Your problem seems to be that players will farm gold based on the highest gold/time/effort ratio. There is no way to get that to be the exact same for every activity out there. Because different players will do things faster than others. So the time it takes is impossible to pin down. Some will do A faster than B, others will do B faster than A.

That will never go away no matter what ANet does. They close the ability to do the multiloot, and players will farm the next best thing. Which could just be one run through of AB.

There will always be one activity that players who want gold will farm to get gold the fastest. Always. There is absolutely nothing that ANet or other players can do to stop it. ANet does at times change things around to move where players farm for gold, but players will always farm one content for gold.

And even if they do manage to get everything to be the same gold/time, then players will just farm the easiest. Because that has the lowest chances of failure.

Seera.5916:

And even if they do manage to get everything to be the same gold/time, then players will just farm the easiest. Because that has the lowest chances of failure.

That alone pretty much nails it… Even if everything gave the same gold/hr everyone would do that content…

Even if harder content gave more gold people would go the route with the highest gold/hr with the lowest chance of failure… T4 fractals give great gold/hr but fewer people do it because its hard…

I did see a fella with an anet tag over his head looting in AB last night. It’s possible they’re doing research on the subject to decide whether or not AB is in a good place right now.

Seera.5916:

[…]
Your problem seems to be that players will farm gold based on the highest gold/time/effort ratio. There is no way to get that to be the exact same for every activity out there. Because different players will do things faster than others. So the time it takes is impossible to pin down. Some will do A faster than B, others will do B faster than A.

That will never go away no matter what ANet does. They close the ability to do the multiloot, and players will farm the next best thing. Which could just be one run through of AB.

There will always be one activity that players who want gold will farm to get gold the fastest. Always. There is absolutely nothing that ANet or other players can do to stop it. ANet does at times change things around to move where players farm for gold, but players will always farm one content for gold.

And even if they do manage to get everything to be the same gold/time, then players will just farm the easiest. Because that has the lowest chances of failure.

This is roughly what I tried to communicate. Players will favor activities which are easy to complete and have a gold/time ratio. I dont want to stop farming. I want to balance it within the game.

Of course there can’t exist fixed values for difficulty and time for each activity. Both are individual for each player. The molton boss fractal is one of the fastest fractals. But it yields the same reward as a Thaumanova fractal, which takes longer to complete. Most players would agree with this statement. But a true ranking of the fractals, with values for each category would be impossible to make. At this point the dev team has to balance it somehow. Is the molton boss fractal perhaps too easy? Mayhaps a few more trash mobs on the way would balance it more?
But this are small scale differences. The reward for a tier1 fractal, dependent on the effort, is rougly the same. But between a tier1 and a tier4 fractal, there should exist a sensible gap both in reward and in effort. And all players would agree that this gap exists.
The opinion or skillset from an individual player doesnt change that.

So, i tried to visulize what i mean: klick
(I should have done something more productive)

Yes I can’t put absolute values on the activities. But important is the basic trend and the spike, which is Auric Basin Multiloot. Most other activities which takes roughly the same effort (like other HoT map metas), will be on the red-line and wont yield as much reward as the ML.

Again, I know that it is impossible to achieve a perfect solution. But this doesnt mean that you should leave such an patent culprit untouched. The Community will search for new things to do, like shovelling in a desert. But so should Anet, instead of doing nothing. Again.

P.S. Sorry for the creepy quality pics.

Margorion.4962:

Seera.5916:

[…]
Your problem seems to be that players will farm gold based on the highest gold/time/effort ratio. There is no way to get that to be the exact same for every activity out there. Because different players will do things faster than others. So the time it takes is impossible to pin down. Some will do A faster than B, others will do B faster than A.

That will never go away no matter what ANet does. They close the ability to do the multiloot, and players will farm the next best thing. Which could just be one run through of AB.

There will always be one activity that players who want gold will farm to get gold the fastest. Always. There is absolutely nothing that ANet or other players can do to stop it. ANet does at times change things around to move where players farm for gold, but players will always farm one content for gold.

And even if they do manage to get everything to be the same gold/time, then players will just farm the easiest. Because that has the lowest chances of failure.

This is roughly what I tried to communicate. Players will favor activities which are easy to complete and have a gold/time ratio. I dont want to stop farming. I want to balance it within the game.

Of course there can’t exist fixed values for difficulty and time for each activity. Both are individual for each player. The molton boss fractal is one of the fastest fractals. But it yields the same reward as a Thaumanova fractal, which takes longer to complete. Most players would agree with this statement. But a true ranking of the fractals, with values for each category would be impossible to make. At this point the dev team has to balance it somehow. Is the molton boss fractal perhaps too easy? Mayhaps a few more trash mobs on the way would balance it more?
But this are small scale differences. The reward for a tier1 fractal, dependent on the effort, is rougly the same. But between a tier1 and a tier4 fractal, there should exist a sensible gap both in reward and in effort. And all players would agree that this gap exists.
The opinion or skillset from an individual player doesnt change that.

So, i tried to visulize what i mean: klick
(I should have done something more productive)

Yes I can’t put absolute values on the activities. But important is the basic trend and the spike, which is Auric Basin Multiloot. Most other activities which takes roughly the same effort (like other HoT map metas), will be on the red-line and wont yield as much reward as the ML.

Again, I know that it is impossible to achieve a perfect solution. But this doesnt mean that you should leave such an patent culprit untouched. The Community will search for new things to do, like shovelling in a desert. But so should Anet, instead of doing nothing. Again.

P.S. Sorry for the creepy quality pics.

Players will still choose the one activity that gives the most gold/time/effort. Anything that has a good chance to fail due to player mistakes will likely not be farmed. See Teq and Triple Wurm. Dungeons and fractals are farmed by players who can speed run them.

All ANet can do is move the farm. Unless they can somehow change the way people think, they will never be able to get rid of farming.

It’s awesome, why would you want it to be gone. I mean if it slows any type of grind down for higher tier loot then I’m more than happy with it.

EphemeralWallaby.7643:

sophiewhite.3149:

AliamRationem.5172:

Wrong. ANet’s decision on whether or when to make a change has no bearing on whether or not it is an exploit. An exploit is simply utilizing game mechanics in an unintended way. It doesn’t necessarily indicate that it must be “fixed”. Some exploits are rather minor and just become part of the way the game is played.

Again, there is no sound argument we can make to explain why they would have intentionally designed this one event so that players may participate once, and then receive the rewards multiple times. Thus it IS an exploit. Whether or not it needs to be fixed is entirely up to ANet.

so your argument is “if anet didnt intend it its a exploit” you do realize every class has mechanics anet didnt intend on it being used the way it is right? you know theres tons of these so called “exploits” by your definition. difference is this doesnt fit the actual definition of exploit. there is no unfair advantage. im sorry you want to sell your mats at a much higher price but we dont.

According to the all-knowing Wikipedia, an exploit is “the use of a bug or glitches, game system, rates, hit boxes, or speed, etc. by a player to their advantage in a manner not intended by the game’s designers.” There’s nothing in that about an ‘unfair advantage’ that you seem to have predicated your understanding of an exploit on… just an advantage unintended by the game’s designers.

Using multi-mapping to loot multiple times the rewards allocated for a single event definitely fits that definition of an exploit.

Just because some exploits aren’t given much priority to address, doesn’t make them any less an exploit. ANet has limited resources to allocate to a game that has a constant influx of bugs and exploits, and must triage where they allocate those resources.

~EW

P.S. Feel free to use some other definition of an exploit to defend your position if you will. I only used Wikipedia because it was an easy place to grab the quoted definition.

i wasnt quoting deffinitions i was quoting what the person said they thought a exploit was and anet’s deffinitions. wikipedia has no place in this atm.

Sariel V.7024:

Venatorn.7619:

tl;dr-
“I don’t like it, therefore it is unfair and needs to be changed”

tl;dr –
I’m taking advantage of this, so don’t you dare change it or call me a cheater.

calling people a cheater for multilooting is uncalled for and childish. i get you were trying to call him childish here but you just dropped to his level to do it.

VictusMortuus.2713:

It’s awesome, why would you want it to be gone. I mean if it slows any type of grind down for higher tier loot then I’m more than happy with it.

the only reason he wants it gone is because he wants the prices of ectos to go back up so he can make some major profit. its born of self interest. personally i dont care either way. if its nerfed ill find another way to farm constantly and make gold until someone else decides its a exploit and needs to be changed because reasons.

sophiewhite.3149:

EphemeralWallaby.7643:

sophiewhite.3149:

AliamRationem.5172:

Wrong. ANet’s decision on whether or when to make a change has no bearing on whether or not it is an exploit. An exploit is simply utilizing game mechanics in an unintended way. It doesn’t necessarily indicate that it must be “fixed”. Some exploits are rather minor and just become part of the way the game is played.

Again, there is no sound argument we can make to explain why they would have intentionally designed this one event so that players may participate once, and then receive the rewards multiple times. Thus it IS an exploit. Whether or not it needs to be fixed is entirely up to ANet.

so your argument is “if anet didnt intend it its a exploit” you do realize every class has mechanics anet didnt intend on it being used the way it is right? you know theres tons of these so called “exploits” by your definition. difference is this doesnt fit the actual definition of exploit. there is no unfair advantage. im sorry you want to sell your mats at a much higher price but we dont.

According to the all-knowing Wikipedia, an exploit is “the use of a bug or glitches, game system, rates, hit boxes, or speed, etc. by a player to their advantage in a manner not intended by the game’s designers.” There’s nothing in that about an ‘unfair advantage’ that you seem to have predicated your understanding of an exploit on… just an advantage unintended by the game’s designers.

Using multi-mapping to loot multiple times the rewards allocated for a single event definitely fits that definition of an exploit.

Just because some exploits aren’t given much priority to address, doesn’t make them any less an exploit. ANet has limited resources to allocate to a game that has a constant influx of bugs and exploits, and must triage where they allocate those resources.

~EW

P.S. Feel free to use some other definition of an exploit to defend your position if you will. I only used Wikipedia because it was an easy place to grab the quoted definition.

i wasnt quoting deffinitions i was quoting what the person said they thought a exploit was and anet’s deffinitions. wikipedia has no place in this atm.

9 pages of people arguing (in part) whether or not it is an exploit indicates a common definition needs to be established. I provided one. If you’ve got a better one to reference by quote, including ANet’s, please do. In the absence of anyone else providing a referenced and coherent definition, then wiki can have a place in this discussion whether you like it or not.

~EW

To me, it’s an exploit. Remember the old Nintendo exploits to get 99 mushrooms, or whatever. It’s not like we’re installing 3rd party software here. It’s an existing game mechanic. Still, it’s an exploitable one.

I wouldn’t say to the extent of a ban offense or anything. One way of minimizing it would be to significantly cut the overall time the chests are present. Once the timer ends, everyone is kicked out as they are now, but the doors will remain open for those that need to get vistas, etc. But the chests are gone. Then, if you were to multimap, well…you’d only be able to loot one or two before your time ended. Kind of makes the logistics of it all less appealing.

For example, the Octovine goes down, then the 5 minute timer starts right off the bat. No waiting. Downfall to this is likely multi-map event participation would drop dramatically. It’s still a great way to get half a dozen, or more, rares, but focus would be on one or two maps, instead of a dozen now.

Even if you don’t attend the multi-maps, if one is participating on your current map, you have a shot of the event taking place, if not succeeding. Rather than no event at all.

But until then, it’s a great way of earning gold quickly to buy all those cosmetics you wanted, but didn’t want to spend real money or effort on! <——why it should probably be addressed in the long term.

Look the joke is always was that some players for every minor things on gw2 scream EXPLOIT since the game was released.

https://youtu.be/qxb-anRWHrA

That’s as evidence way back now everyone does it since its a game mechanic from day 1 but…There are these players shouting on every little thing exploit when somebody find a fast way to do things.

Seera.5916:

Margorion.4962:

I also think, that Auric Basin Multiloot has an negative impact on the game, let me explain:

Most progress in GW2 is linked to gold. You want this beautiful Skin, the new Viper ascendet weapon for raids or a new character needs weaponsmith on 500. Almost everything in game could be done if you throw enough gold at it.
But to get gold you have to pay a price. This price depends on different factors. But one major one is time and another one is difficulty. A activity with a good gold/time ratio and easy access is therefor an optimal way of achieving your goals in game.

An mmo should somehow find a balance between this three factors. Harder content should feel rewarding, therefor it needs to have a better gold/time ratio than easier content. Multi loot shifts this. You can join a map in the last 5 minutes of the meta and then go through ~10 maps for the reward. The gold/time ratio is insane. And this has an impact on all other activities. Yes Sorrow’s Embrace path 2 still yields 35s. But in the time you could finish this Dungeon, you could have earned far more in Auric Basin. From this perspective, you did not earn money; You lost the gold amount that you could have earned in Auric Basin in the meantime.

Many people who wants gold for whatever reason, will be focusing on one activity and not a wide area of multiply activities. This is poison for long time enjoyment because so much content feels like a wasted effort.

By looking just at simple activities it is the best for the playerbase, if every activity in this section should have the same gold/time ratio. This will lead to a playerbase who can freely choose which activity they want to complete. A rotation like the daily fractals is also a nice way of achieving this in a different way.

Harder content works the same. The reward for a tier1 fractal is smaller than a tier4 fractal. A tier4 fractal compared with another tier4 fractal should be rewarding in the same way.

You can call it what you want, exploit or gamemechanic. But it has an impact on the game and in my opinion it isnt a good one. Besides enjoyment in itself, every activity should feel rewarding. By having one single activity which exceeds every other activity, it dimishes the feelings of achievement of all others that are linked with the reward.

Your problem seems to be that players will farm gold based on the highest gold/time/effort ratio. There is no way to get that to be the exact same for every activity out there. Because different players will do things faster than others. So the time it takes is impossible to pin down. Some will do A faster than B, others will do B faster than A.

That will never go away no matter what ANet does. They close the ability to do the multiloot, and players will farm the next best thing. Which could just be one run through of AB.

There will always be one activity that players who want gold will farm to get gold the fastest. Always. There is absolutely nothing that ANet or other players can do to stop it. ANet does at times change things around to move where players farm for gold, but players will always farm one content for gold.

And even if they do manage to get everything to be the same gold/time, then players will just farm the easiest. Because that has the lowest chances of failure.

I agree that players will farm gold, which entails going for the best output. If it weren’t AB, it would be something else. But I also expect that if we reduced the disparity between AB and other popular farming techniques, players would return to a more evenly-distributed pattern rather than localizing to one event to the same degree they have with AB.

Why do I say that? Well, common sense. If I offer up a free meal when everyone else is offering in the range of 25-50% off, people will flock to my restaurant. But if I offer up 55% off instead, while I’m still leading the competition you would expect a far more even distribution of patrons.

This occurs because of factors beyond cost. Maybe I don’t mind paying the extra 5% to go to a closer restaurant, even if I would have gone the distance for a cheaper/free meal. Or maybe I wanted Italian rather than French? Whatever the reason is, you would expect plenty of people to spread out to these other establishments if I ended my free meal program, even though my prices are still the best!

Makes sense, no?

Sismis.5390:

Look the joke is always was that some players for every minor things on gw2 scream EXPLOIT since the game was released.

https://youtu.be/qxb-anRWHrA

That’s as evidence way back now everyone does it since its a game mechanic from day 1 but…There are these players shouting on every little thing exploit when somebody find a fast way to do things.

I can’t speak for anyone else, but I’m not “screaming” exploit. However, the more relevant point is that nobody has presented a plausible explanation for how this design could be anything other than an exploit.

So, again, not screaming here. But answer this:

An exploit may be defined as gameplay that runs counter to an intended design. This places no judgment on whether or not the exploit is against policy or whether it requires a fix.

Given that, present a plausible explanation as to how a developer would have designed the assault on Tarir event, designed the chest rewards beneath the city, and yet intended that players loot those rewards multiple times after succeeding only once at the event.

You know there isn’t one. That’s why this is an exploit. No screaming. Just straight talk is all.

Ok , let’s me do the math for all of you :
In AB map , the maximum Grand Chest you can get in each map is 5 . Because of the timegate for chest loot you can only jump to 4 maps to get the chest if you are fast enough ( believe me , i try many times and normally just can jump to 3 maps ) . For 3-4 map you will get 15-20 rare items and :
Ectos produced per Rare item with a Master’s/Mystic Salvage Kit ( From GW2 Wiki )
Quantity————Chance———-15 Items——20 Items
0———————36.75% —-——-5.475———-7.35
1———————47.00% —-——-7.05 —-——-9.4
2———————8.25% —-——-1.2375———1.65
3———————8.00% —-———1.2————-1.6
So normally you will get 14-18 Ectos . It’s 4-5.14 gold with tax deductions ( The Price of Ecto i check atm is 34 Silvers ) , and plus with some Masterwork Item + chance of Orb and Black Diamon + Seed Pod ( Please don’t tell me about very rare chance of exotic or ascended Weapon Chest ) . It’s could be 5-7 gold .
And the most important thing is : It’s is not raw gold , you have to sell Ectos and other item on Trading Post to get gold . And if the number of an item increase it’s price will decrease , that’s how TP work , right ? Today it’s 5-7 gold and now there’re more and more people know about this farming method and do it so I guess tomorrow it could be 3-4 gold and next week , next month could be1-2 . It will decrease day by day .
Don’t worry boys, TP know how to balance itself .
In my opinion , the reason that cause inflation in this game is :
- GW2 is an old MMORPG
- Botter
- Lack of event , activities that consume gold .
That’s my thought .

IcyTear.6378:

Ok , let’s me do the math for all of you :
In AB map , the maximum Grand Chest you can get in each map is 5 . Because of the timegate for chest loot you can only jump to 4 maps to get the chest if you are fast enough ( believe me , i try many times and normally just can jump to 3 maps ) . For 3-4 map you will get 15-20 rare items and :
Ectos produced per Rare item with a Master’s/Mystic Salvage Kit ( From GW2 Wiki )
Quantity————Chance———-15 Items——20 Items
0———————36.75% —-——-5.475———-7.35
1———————47.00% —-——-7.05 —-——-9.4
2———————8.25% —-——-1.2375———1.65
3———————8.00% —-———1.2————-1.6
So normally you will get 14-18 Ectos . It’s 4-5.14 gold with tax deductions ( The Price of Ecto i check atm is 34 Silvers ) , and plus with some Masterwork Item + chance of Orb and Black Diamon + Seed Pod ( Please don’t tell me about very rare chance of exotic or ascended Weapon Chest ) . It’s could be 5-7 gold .
And the most important thing is : It’s is not raw gold , you have to sell Ectos and other item on Trading Post to get gold . And if the number of an item increase it’s price will decrease , that’s how TP work , right ? Today it’s 5-7 gold and now there’re more and more people know about this farming method and do it so I guess tomorrow it could be 3-4 gold and next week , next month could be1-2 . It will decrease day by day .
Don’t worry boys, TP know how to balance itself .
In my opinion , the reason that cause inflation in this game is :
- GW2 is an old MMORPG
- Botter
- Lack of event , activities that consume gold .
That’s my thought .

What? I can easily loot up to 40 grand chests in the 15~20 minutes I have after beating the Octo, provided they all end before the :15 mark. Even when I have to switch to other toons due to lack of maps, I’m still able to loot that many grand chests, it’s all about picking the right class with high mobility like a thief or a herald for perma-Swiftness and Quickness when opening the chest.

Sectry.1236:

IcyTear.6378:

-snip

What? I can easily loot up to 40 grand chests in the 15~20 minutes I have after beating the Octo, provided they all end before the :15 mark. Even when I have to switch to other toons due to lack of maps, I’m still able to loot that many grand chests, it’s all about picking the right class with high mobility like a thief or a herald for perma-Swiftness and Quickness when opening the chest.

only 40? If your not getting a minimum of 50 your doing it wrong…

Edit… I agree the ab multimap should be nerfed hard… but that being said i’ve abused the crap out of it…

Look, it’s clearly an exploit. The Exhalted asked for our help, we pretended to help them out of the goodness of our hearts then we plundered their city like locusts. We exploited them in their hour of need.

But seriously, I’ve wanted to ask – how do you multi-looters deal with all the loot? I have all bag slots filled and on just one run I run out of space. Do you wp back to the central city merch to sell stuff in the middle of looting or bring your own merch or what?

Zoltar MacRoth.7146:

But seriously, I’ve wanted to ask – how do you multi-looters deal with all the loot? I have all bag slots filled and on just one run I run out of space. Do you wp back to the central city merch to sell stuff in the middle of looting or bring your own merch or what?

Salvage while you loot, then deposit materials.

ferdi.1452:

Zoltar MacRoth.7146:

But seriously, I’ve wanted to ask – how do you multi-looters deal with all the loot? I have all bag slots filled and on just one run I run out of space. Do you wp back to the central city merch to sell stuff in the middle of looting or bring your own merch or what?

Salvage while you loot, then deposit materials.

But what about all the sigils and runes? Do you TP them, go back to a merch or just delete them?

Zoltar MacRoth.7146:

But what about all the sigils and runes? Do you TP them, go back to a merch or just delete them?

Yea they do clog up your inventory so as time goes on you need to salvage more often. But it’s usually not a problem and I just sell them after the looting.

Zoltar MacRoth.7146:

Look, it’s clearly an exploit. The Exhalted asked for our help, we pretended to help them out of the goodness of our hearts then we plundered their city like locusts. We exploited them in their hour of need.

But seriously, I’ve wanted to ask – how do you multi-looters deal with all the loot? I have all bag slots filled and on just one run I run out of space. Do you wp back to the central city merch to sell stuff in the middle of looting or bring your own merch or what?

Copper-Fed SalvageOMatic for me. I sell my rares, rather than salvage them. So, run through for XL chests only (unless I’m stuck waiting for an open map, then I’ll hit up some of the others while I’m standing around,) and after a couple opens, I salvage all masterwork and below. Deposit what I can, and as I’m auto-running, I auction off the rares. By the time I’ve hit up 8 or so maps, I shouldn’t have much left other than several rares and a bunch of junk/minor sigils.

Then, I hit up my go to spot for bank access, and sell off mats I’m not using, at an arbitrarily set number, as well as vendor off my junk/sigils. Bags clear and I have some time until the next AB MM shift to go do something else.

If you plan on working the AB MM, you should really have at least all 18 slot bags. Not too spendy there and if you don’t have the coin, a few MM’s later, you will.

You work at AB MM for a week or so, doing a couple a night, you should be able to afford a Copper Fed soon enough. I recall seeing some figure where it would never be worth it as a 1:1 vs kits, but it’s not about saving money. It’s about being able to keep up on salvaging without wasting slots on kits.

At that point, you will always have several hundred g’s sitting in your bank if you keep up on the AB MM’s. I like the sparklies, so I’m constantly buying new stuff, but a few days in AB MM and my account is up again.

Oh, forgot to mention, I also use the Windows Mouse Keys option to help open those bags as fast as possible. Num + and rapid fire finger tips. haha.

Exploit or not, one thing is true too me: nothing, but really no other activity you can do in this game cames EVEN CLOSE too the money per hour you can do with it.

Therefore, yes, it may be a exploit for some, it may not… But it stills a way too do money thats MUCH BETTER than anything else.

I think a nerf into this is in order… At the very least… Something like raise the exalted keys prices would probably work…

Cakemeister.5792:

Here’s how I multi-loot.

I have eight characters dedicated to AB. I do the meta events with one of them. I had been using a necromancer for durability but I recently switched over to daredevil. The other 7 characters are parked on a chest.

My daredevil does the meta events on whatever map he happened to log onto. Once meta is complete he either switches to another meta, if his map finished quickly, or starts the loot phase if his map finished slowly.

My daredevil is a norn and uses the Become the Snow Leopard skill for moving between chests. Shortbow 5 and dagger 2 are great skills for movement as well. He is traited to move especially fast when dodging (Unhindered combatant). He also has the quickness skill.

Once the loot phase begins, my daredevil moves quickly between grand chests. No other chests are opened. At each chest, he opens and then finds a squad member on a different map and selects ’Join in Auric Basin" on that squadmate. He repeats this until looting the chest on all possible maps and then moves to the next chest.

Once that is done, I do that process again on a second character which is a thief. I don’t want to train the HoT skill on the thief so I use two Superior Runes of Evasion, plus shortbow and dagger.

That will take the timer down to about the 5:00 minute mark. At that point I switch characters to the characters parked on a chest. These characters do not move between maps, they just loot one chest on all the maps and then I switch characters again.

My personal best is 86 chests looted.

After the loot phase comes the salvage phase. For each character, I log in and quickly select the guild hall before the character is moved out of the chest room.

Personally, I salvage just about everything because I use the mats. I sell exotic armor and forge exotic weapons.

I have five shared inventory slots. They are used by a copper fed salvage o matic, auric basin keys, tarrktun portal, mystic forge node, and personal bank node. I still have plenty of mystic stones but if I run out I will buy another shared inventory slot and put a silver-fed salvage o matic in it.

For each parked character I log in,, move to guild hall, open bags, salvage all with copper, salvage all with mystic, sell junk with tarrktun, forge runes and sigils, open bank and store the mats and forged superior runes and sigils.

My solution is not optimal. The best way to multi-loot is to dedicate about 13 to 15 characters to it. One character does the meta and the others are parked. After the meta is over, use only the parked characters and don’t run at all between chests. People have reported looting over a hundred chests with this method. 14 characters times 7 maps is 98, so I believe it.

I’m really impressed with your effort and ingenuity …but tbh it sounds kind of like a job.

Just with any other topic similar to this one, it seems to be rather easy to spot those who do whichever method is being discussed and those who don’t.

In any case, doesn’t even matter if this is considered an exploid or not. Rewards can still be reduced if content turns out to be playable in a way not intended.
Makes me wonder how many of the people who simply hated on dungeons and the previous good rewards there are now exlusively farming AB and maybe multi-toon gathering in between. Each his own.

Remove legendary weapons, ascended weapons OR put them obtaiable through normal vendors with normal prices (10g per legendary 5/asc) and farming “problem” /gold barons solved.

Otherwise quit whining.

I would like to see a change in that Auric Basin meta… I would like to see the biggest chests near the entrance (all 5 of em) so people don’t have to run the whole map just for 5 gold. That way ppl will earn 5 gold for 20 sec, not for 90… It will be huge improvment to the mechanics of the event and all ppl will be happy about it.

How does looting Multi AB maps makes you rich… even 1 meta gives a ton of loot that vaporizes into low tier stuff you don’t need, just the wood is okay.
Start of with some shiny purple and gold chest.. click click.. then you get the satchels and boxes (epic) click click..then you get the green stuff.. click click.. oh great some moar silk scraps etc.. it vaporizes into low tier stuff that sells x250 for 50 silver wow!.
Loot a hundred maps for all i care.. loot is just horrible in this game.
Chop and Mine Sparkfly Fen / Maelstrom for 1 hour and you make 8 to15 gold.. see what im saying.. META rewards are bad.

Smeerlap.2698:

How does looting Multi AB maps makes you rich… even 1 meta gives a ton of loot that vaporizes into low tier stuff you don’t need, just the wood is okay.
Start of with some shiny purple and gold chest.. click click.. then you get the satchels and boxes (epic) click click..then you get the green stuff.. click click.. oh great some moar silk scraps etc.. it vaporizes into low tier stuff that sells x250 for 50 silver wow!.
Loot a hundred maps for all i care.. loot is just horrible in this game.
Chop and Mine Sparkfly Fen / Maelstrom for 1 hour and you make 8 to15 gold.. see what im saying.. META rewards are bad.

Loot may be horrible in this game, but there’s a reason we’re discussing AB multimap. The effort to reward ratio is off the charts compared to similar content and indeed anything else in the game (except perhaps TP trading for those with sufficient resources).

I don’t care much about the economy. I figure that will balance itself out. I’m much more concerned with a game that leaves such obvious exploits in place when it can lead to nothing other than the feeling that most of their content is unrewarding.

How else CAN you feel about it, if we’re being honest? How can the chak gerent feel “rewarding” when it provides next to nothing for a win and has a much higher rate of failure? With AB multi so far and away more rewarding than any other content in the game, everything else is comparatively less rewarding.

I expect that sentiment to grow as AB multi continues. Because let’s face it, running AB this way is in no way challenging. The reason players do it is purely for the rewards. And if those rewards start to feel unrewarding, what does it say about all of the other content which doesn’t even come close?

Its not an exploit. Its various in-game features being used together in order to make more gold by people that are smarter than you. Get over it.

AliamRationem.5172:

Smeerlap.2698:

How does looting Multi AB maps makes you rich… even 1 meta gives a ton of loot that vaporizes into low tier stuff you don’t need, just the wood is okay.
Start of with some shiny purple and gold chest.. click click.. then you get the satchels and boxes (epic) click click..then you get the green stuff.. click click.. oh great some moar silk scraps etc.. it vaporizes into low tier stuff that sells x250 for 50 silver wow!.
Loot a hundred maps for all i care.. loot is just horrible in this game.
Chop and Mine Sparkfly Fen / Maelstrom for 1 hour and you make 8 to15 gold.. see what im saying.. META rewards are bad.

Loot may be horrible in this game, but there’s a reason we’re discussing AB multimap. The effort to reward ratio is off the charts compared to similar content and indeed anything else in the game (except perhaps TP trading for those with sufficient resources).

I don’t care much about the economy. I figure that will balance itself out. I’m much more concerned with a game that leaves such obvious exploits in place when it can lead to nothing other than the feeling that most of their content is unrewarding.

How else CAN you feel about it, if we’re being honest? How can the chak gerent feel “rewarding” when it provides next to nothing for a win and has a much higher rate of failure? With AB multi so far and away more rewarding than any other content in the game, everything else is comparatively less rewarding.

I expect that sentiment to grow as AB multi continues. Because let’s face it, running AB this way is in no way challenging. The reason players do it is purely for the rewards. And if those rewards start to feel unrewarding, what does it say about all of the other content which doesn’t even come close?

the argument you have here is “loot everywhere else sucks so nerf ab cause its loot is too good” what about buffing the other places to stay in line? or at least a little bit. i cant even finish my dungeon achievments because no one does them. will nerfing ab help that? nope.