Guild Wars 2

If the Revenant utilities are locked to the channel,

I highly suggest that Revenants get a more thorough TRAIT system than all other classes to make up for the limited customization.

What I mean by this, is to cut down on the useless traits in the class, like many of the other classes have. Other classes have a lot of bad traits mixed in with the good. Well that need to be cut down on the Revenant.

I would even go as far as suggesting that Revenants get the unique option of choosing their Minor Traits as well as their Major Traits.

Also would suggest making each Trait Branch get a passive boost to their corresponding Channeled Legend that goes with that tree,
In a similar way that other classes’s fifth trait row usually has passive boost for the class’ mechanic. This should be applied to all the Revenant’s branches corresponding with the Legend it represents. The way it effects the Legend is up to you, but I believe this should be done to make up for the limited customization the class gets IF utilities, heals and elites are locked to the channel.

it’s not a big if, it’s exactly how revenants work at the moment.

There’s still a chance they’ll have extra abilities per legend that can be exchanged. That feedback has been heard and noted. I just hope they take it seriously. Every weapon+legend combo being the exact same is really the only major turnoff I have with the class. Here’s to hoping. Luckily they’re early enough in the development to really do whatever they want to.

Someone pointed out that certain utilities would be really weird underwater. So there would have to be more than 3 utilities to make sure there are at least 3 available for underwater.
Seems to make a stronger argument in favor of more than 3 utilities.

I’ll make this point again.

Revenants already have THE most freedom and flexibility when it comes to utilities. Not only do they have double the number thanks to being able to equip two legend stances, but they use a shared energy resource rather than cooldown timers.

That means you can employ utilities or not based on whether they’re actually useful in combat (assuming you have the energy) rather than making the most of cooldowns.

Take guardian for example. If they want condition cleansing on utilities they need to trait for it up to GM in a particular line and equip multiple shouts, on 20 second plus cooldowns. So at most they can pop off 3 cleanses in a 20 second period with utilities.

A revenant could with a single utility cleanse do the same simply by not wasting energy on anything else if lots of cleanses are required. That’s three for the price of one, in a profession which gets double the number of utilities!

Damage, CC, cleanses, buffs, heals. That’s what utilities do. Energy fuels them all. No cooldowns. Replication is redundant.

Revenant are better designed to any of the base classes. All skills are designed to work with that legend and playstyle and have controlled effectiveness. Other classes… got to worry about this being UP with that,that being OP this, the QQ on this, the QQ on that,this sigil is making this op so my build get nerfed instead of sigil and a cycle again and again. After +2 years of release,classes still have inner issues do we want to them to make same mistake then wait every 6 months for a chance of accurate balance..?? As long as the utilities are legends based from 3-5 I’ll support it,swapping skills between legends no sir.

Caeledh.5437:

I’ll make this point again.

As said in previous POI livestreams, NONE OF THIS IS OFFICIALLY CONFIRMED.

We are arguing over speculation. Nothing is set is stone yet and 3 scenarii are possible :

• Utilities are tied to legends as the ele weapon skills are tied to an affinity, no variation allowed bar the racial skills (this scenario is my least favorite).
• Utilities are not tied to legends and behave like elementalist glyphs. The legend will merely tweak them (unlikely hypothesis)
• Each legend will have a limited pool of utilities to choose from.

Knighthonor.4061:

I highly suggest that Revenants get a more thorough TRAIT system than all other classes to make up for the limited customization.

I would rather have a lot of legends – more than the 4 everyone is predicting – so we would have more options, even if less possible combinations in which to mix those options.

ronpierce.2760:

There’s still a chance they’ll have extra abilities per legend that can be exchanged. That feedback has been heard and noted. I just hope they take it seriously. Every weapon+legend combo being the exact same is really the only major turnoff I have with the class. Here’s to hoping. Luckily they’re early enough in the development to really do whatever they want to.

yeah, i’m hoping they change based on feedback, but treating the current iteration, the one they’re publicly demoing, a “big if” is silly.

VodCom.6924:

Caeledh.5437:

I’ll make this point again.

As said in previous POI livestreams, NONE OF THIS IS OFFICIALLY CONFIRMED.

That’s a bit rude dearie.

I didn’t say anything that was unconfirmed. Utilities don’t have cooldowns. There’s only one with a 5 second cooldown which is freakishly short by utility standards. They use a shared energy resource.

All of this is confirmed. Taken from in-game screenshots.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/List_of_revenant_skills

The only thing that’s unclear is whether Revenants have any choice in the specific utilities they can equip for each legend or if each legend only has 1 healing, 3 utilities and 1 elite total.

Nothing I said hinges on that. The point I was making that even if there is no choice in legend utilities revenants still easily have the most flexibility and freedom of any profession when it comes to utilities.

So all this complaining about revenants being too restricted and such is completely bonkers.

Caeledh.5437:

VodCom.6924:

Caeledh.5437:

I’ll make this point again.

As said in previous POI livestreams, NONE OF THIS IS OFFICIALLY CONFIRMED.

That’s a bit rude dearie.

I didn’t say anything that was unconfirmed. Utilities don’t have cooldowns. There’s only one with a 5 second cooldown which is freakishly short by utility standards. They use a shared energy resource.

All of this is confirmed. Taken from in-game screenshots.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/List_of_revenant_skills

The only thing that’s unclear is whether Revenants have any choice in the specific utilities they can equip for each legend or if each legend only has 1 healing, 3 utilities and 1 elite total.

Nothing I said hinges on that. The point I was making that even if there is no choice in legend utilities revenants still easily have the most flexibility and freedom of any profession when it comes to utilities.

So all this complaining about revenants being too restricted and such is completely bonkers.

What you are describing yes is freedom when using skills in combat, but it is still very limited freedom in how to build your character, we already on current classes have certain weapons etc that are very very bad to the point of being useless, this will be an issue EVEN more on revenant since you might be lacking crucial “abbilites” for battle (like stun breaks or condition removal etc) if using certain weapons and/or legends, if they do now allow changing of the utilities

If revenant is both locked in fixed weapon skills (in weapon) and fixed utilities (in legend)
then i bet it will never be viable in any mod at all, unless devs made so it’s viable.

Simon.3794:

it will never be viable in any mod at all, unless devs made so it’s viable.

such wise words. “it won’t be viable unless it is”.

BrunoBRS.5178:

Simon.3794:

it will never be viable in any mod at all, unless devs made so it’s viable.

such wise words. “it won’t be viable unless it is”.

yes, it will never be viable because the meta is constant changing, and people change their utilize to match the meta.

but revenant can’t, so either dev retweak everything to make them viable and perfect fit or they will never.

which means there’s no balancing because of all the combinations, it’s either devs want them to be meta, or they are out.

BrunoBRS.5178:

it’s not a big if, it’s exactly how revenants work at the moment.

Nothing is set in stone right now. Developers own words…

They haven’t come out and said that I know of, but I’m pretty darn sure each legend has more than 3 utils. First, there are only gonna be 4 legends given that each trait line seems to correspond to a legend and that they said the 5th was going to be about transitions. With only 3 utils per legend that would leave you with only 12, so there’s no way they’ll do that. I would personally expect about 6 per legend. Maybe like 7 or 8. But that’s just my guess.

However, I’m almost sure there’s more than 3 as well because, in POI, out of combat the little arrows popped up to allow you to swap utils. That means there’s more than three because otherwise they’d just assign em and leave em like they do with weapons.

I would also hope for like 2 heals and 2-3 elites per legend but maybe not. I could be guessing on the low side since I think all profs are gonna get more skills even if only through specialization.

Knighthonor.4061:

limited customization.

People keep saying that as if doubling up on your combat utilities is more limiting than any other class. Personally, I think it’s a fair tradeoff – you get limited utilities and no weapon swap for double the utility numbers in combat. If you could bring 2 heals, 6 utilities and 2 elites for any other class, then maybe this “limited customization” might have a point to it.

Wilroc.5428:

because, in POI, out of combat the little arrows popped up to allow you to swap utils.

I sort of dislike this logic too. The arrows aren’t necessarily indicative of having more skill options – it’s a regular part of the way the game displays the UI when ooc (unless the skill slot is locked). However, I’m inclined to agree that there will be several different skills (say, 1 heal, about 6 utilities and 2 elites per Legend) – it just seems very restrictive to say that it will only be 3, regardless of the fact that they’re doubling up on utilities in combat because that’d be extraordinarily less utilities than any other class if there’s only 4 Legends (which the game seems to suggest, unless Revenant traits are going to be highly innovative).

Cuddy.6247:

Knighthonor.4061:

limited customization.

People keep saying that as if doubling up on your combat utilities is more limiting than any other class. Personally, I think it’s a fair tradeoff – you get limited utilities and no weapon swap for double the utility numbers in combat. If you could bring 2 heals, 6 utilities and 2 elites for any other class, then maybe this “limited customization” might have a point to it.

Wilroc.5428:

because, in POI, out of combat the little arrows popped up to allow you to swap utils.

I sort of dislike this logic too. The arrows aren’t necessarily indicative of having more skill options – it’s a regular part of the way the game displays the UI when ooc (unless the skill slot is locked). However, I’m inclined to agree that there will be several different skills (say, 1 heal, about 6 utilities and 2 elites per Legend) – it just seems very restrictive to say that it will only be 3, regardless of the fact that they’re doubling up on utilities in combat because that’d be extraordinarily less utilities than any other class if there’s only 4 Legends (which the game seems to suggest, unless Revenant traits are going to be highly innovative).

The point is that it has less choices in the skills. Remember this game is build around a limited action bar that uses a TCG sort of feel to it. Well with weapon skills picked for you and the channel skills picked for you, you only get to pick which two channels to use and the weapons. That’s less choices in how we build. You may not see it that way, but glad others do and bringing attention to it.

Im not sure but does ppl asking to mix utilities from legends?

I dont have problem with the way revenant is designed right now. If you want more utility per legend its okay, but if you want to use Mallyx utilities while channeling Jalis then i have to disagree. As it stands now each legend has it pros and cons.

Making utilities like glyphs? We will be waiting for revenant a year+ at this point as they need to basically start over.

Knighthonor.4061:

Cuddy.6247:

Knighthonor.4061:

limited customization.

People keep saying that as if doubling up on your combat utilities is more limiting than any other class. Personally, I think it’s a fair tradeoff – you get limited utilities and no weapon swap for double the utility numbers in combat. If you could bring 2 heals, 6 utilities and 2 elites for any other class, then maybe this “limited customization” might have a point to it.

Wilroc.5428:

because, in POI, out of combat the little arrows popped up to allow you to swap utils.

I sort of dislike this logic too. The arrows aren’t necessarily indicative of having more skill options – it’s a regular part of the way the game displays the UI when ooc (unless the skill slot is locked). However, I’m inclined to agree that there will be several different skills (say, 1 heal, about 6 utilities and 2 elites per Legend) – it just seems very restrictive to say that it will only be 3, regardless of the fact that they’re doubling up on utilities in combat because that’d be extraordinarily less utilities than any other class if there’s only 4 Legends (which the game seems to suggest, unless Revenant traits are going to be highly innovative).

The point is that it has less choices in the skills. Remember this game is build around a limited action bar that uses a TCG sort of feel to it. Well with weapon skills picked for you and the channel skills picked for you, you only get to pick which two channels to use and the weapons. That’s less choices in how we build. You may not see it that way, but glad others do and bringing attention to it.

You bring up an interesting point but that doesn’t dismiss the fact that they get twice as many utilities in active combat. Not only that, but if they go with 4 legends (which seems to be the pattern we’ll see – one legend per trait line and one for the revenant class) – that makes a total of 6 legend combinations. That’s not 4 choices, that’s basically 45 with additional limitation. Surely I’m not the only one who would see a slippery slope if they added in a plethora of utilities per legend, it’d just be double the problems we see now. As far as traits – the traits are already aligned with legends (so far), so investing into certain trait lines is an investment into your legend choices.

If there’s anything that could, or even should, be changed to accommodate for the absolute utility skills, it’d be the other side of the skill bar – the weapon.

The only downside is if there’s a legend you absolutely loathe. It would definitely be problematic because each legend for the revenant exponentially increases or decreases your maximum options. Then again, I feel like we’re not looking at anything new in that regard. If you don’t like the way banners work for warriors, or don’t like guardian meditations, or don’t like mesmer mantras…you’re not making the most out of a whole set of skills.

I’m sorry, but I just don’t see a point of where the revenant does not have options in its own way (at least a way that’s any more limiting than other classes).

Cuddy.6247:

Knighthonor.4061:

Cuddy.6247:

Knighthonor.4061:

limited customization.

People keep saying that as if doubling up on your combat utilities is more limiting than any other class. Personally, I think it’s a fair tradeoff – you get limited utilities and no weapon swap for double the utility numbers in combat. If you could bring 2 heals, 6 utilities and 2 elites for any other class, then maybe this “limited customization” might have a point to it.

Wilroc.5428:

because, in POI, out of combat the little arrows popped up to allow you to swap utils.

I sort of dislike this logic too. The arrows aren’t necessarily indicative of having more skill options – it’s a regular part of the way the game displays the UI when ooc (unless the skill slot is locked). However, I’m inclined to agree that there will be several different skills (say, 1 heal, about 6 utilities and 2 elites per Legend) – it just seems very restrictive to say that it will only be 3, regardless of the fact that they’re doubling up on utilities in combat because that’d be extraordinarily less utilities than any other class if there’s only 4 Legends (which the game seems to suggest, unless Revenant traits are going to be highly innovative).

The point is that it has less choices in the skills. Remember this game is build around a limited action bar that uses a TCG sort of feel to it. Well with weapon skills picked for you and the channel skills picked for you, you only get to pick which two channels to use and the weapons. That’s less choices in how we build. You may not see it that way, but glad others do and bringing attention to it.

You bring up an interesting point but that doesn’t dismiss the fact that they get twice as many utilities in active combat. Not only that, but if they go with 4 Legends (which seems to be the pattern we’ll see – one legend per trait line and one for the Revenant class) – that makes a total of 6 Legend combinations. Surely I’m not the only one who would see a slippery slope if they added in a plethora of utilities per Legend, it’d just be double the problems we see now. As far as traits – the traits are already aligned with Legends (so far), so investing into certain trait lines is an investment into your Legend choices.

If there’s anything that could, or even should, be changed to accommodate for the absolute utility skills, it’d be the other side of the skill bar – the weapon.

This is why I suggested a more advanced trait system (Big IF) they used a locked system.

Also keep in mind that the channels will be the Revenant’s equivalent to Weapon Skills, because they swap out those last 5 skills for a second set of 5 skills, while the first 5 skills (weapons here) stay totally the same since they can’t swap.

It’s the same amount of skills that a Warrior gets without burst skills. But instead of two Weapons 1-5 and one set of 6-0, the Revenant gets two sets of 6-0, and one set of weapons 1-5.

But unlike the Warrior, they get to chose the skills that go into their one set which are the 6-0.

The Revenant does not get to choose the skills for their one set, which are 1-5.

That’s actually less customization not more.

Knighthonor.4061:

This is why I suggested a more advanced trait system (Big IF) they used a locked system.

Also keep in mind that the channels will be the Revenant’s equivalent to Weapon Skills, because they swap out those last 5 skills for a second set of 5 skills, while the first 5 skills (weapons here) stay totally the same since they can’t swap.

It’s the same amount of skills that a Warrior gets without burst skills. But instead of two Weapons 1-5 and one set of 6-0, the Revenant gets two sets of 6-0, and one set of weapons 1-5.

But unlike the Warrior, they get to chose the skills that go into their one set which are the 6-0.

The Revenant does not get to choose the skills for their one set, which are 1-5.

That’s actually less customization not more.

But that’s proposing that your weapon skills and utilities have equal value. Now I don’t know about you, but I’d give up my warrior’s weapon swap (and even my burst skill, if we’re going to be honest) for another set of utilities. There’s simply no comparison to be made there, apples and oranges.

Knighthonor.4061:

BrunoBRS.5178:

it’s not a big if, it’s exactly how revenants work at the moment.

Nothing is set in stone right now. Developers own words…

i don’t think you understand the meaning of that. it means it can change, which yeah, i hope it does.

but “big if” means it’s really, really unlikely that something will happen. right now, the most likely scenario for the revenant is having locked skills per legend, as it is the current state of it, and one they’re happy enough with that they’re showing to the public. it’s the literal opposite of a “big if”.

BrunoBRS.5178:

Knighthonor.4061:

BrunoBRS.5178:

it’s not a big if, it’s exactly how revenants work at the moment.

Nothing is set in stone right now. Developers own words…

i don’t think you understand the meaning of that. it means it can change, which yeah, i hope it does.

but “big if” means it’s really, really unlikely that something will happen. right now, the most likely scenario for the revenant is having locked skills per legend, as it is the current state of it, and one they’re happy enough with that they’re showing to the public. it’s the literal opposite of a “big if”.

No comment…

Knighthonor.4061:

BrunoBRS.5178:

Knighthonor.4061:

BrunoBRS.5178:

it’s not a big if, it’s exactly how revenants work at the moment.

Nothing is set in stone right now. Developers own words…

i don’t think you understand the meaning of that. it means it can change, which yeah, i hope it does.

but “big if” means it’s really, really unlikely that something will happen. right now, the most likely scenario for the revenant is having locked skills per legend, as it is the current state of it, and one they’re happy enough with that they’re showing to the public. it’s the literal opposite of a “big if”.

No comment…

Bruno is actually right. The revenant is designed with locked utilities. I doubt they would make something than change it because people don’t like how it sounds without even testing it out. This is pretty much your spear post over again. You are claiming something to be way you wished it to but you have absolutely no proof or reference.
If the class is designed with locked utilities I doubt they would have a lot of random ones laying around and giving it utilities from another legend would simply defeat the perpose of specialized legend playstyle. Legends wouldn’t be used as these lets say playstyle changers but just as utilities holders because everyone would just chose the perfect ones for them.

Edit: This is same thread made by you few days ago
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/hot/Rev-6-0-are-lock-what-about-Specialization

GummiBear.2756:

What you are describing yes is freedom when using skills in combat, but it is still very limited freedom in how to build your character

But this freedom is a bit of a lie isn’kitten There are loads of utility/elite skills that are just so bad they hardly ever get used outside of people just kittening around.

Hmm I think there will be at least 5 legends, each with 1 fixed heal, 1 fixed elite and at least 8 selectable utilities. It sure sounds like a lot, but I think right now we Engies have even more than that through Kits and Toolbelt skills.

I’m not saying all of the alternatives will be viable. Most of them will surely be crap, and people will simply stick with Mallyx anyway.

Nephziel.6053:

Knighthonor.4061:

BrunoBRS.5178:

Knighthonor.4061:

BrunoBRS.5178:

it’s not a big if, it’s exactly how revenants work at the moment.

Nothing is set in stone right now. Developers own words…

i don’t think you understand the meaning of that. it means it can change, which yeah, i hope it does.

but “big if” means it’s really, really unlikely that something will happen. right now, the most likely scenario for the revenant is having locked skills per legend, as it is the current state of it, and one they’re happy enough with that they’re showing to the public. it’s the literal opposite of a “big if”.

No comment…

Bruno is actually right. The revenant is designed with locked utilities. I doubt they would make something than change it because people don’t like how it sounds without even testing it out. This is pretty much your spear post over again. You are claiming something to be way you wished it to but you have absolutely no proof or reference.
If the class is designed with locked utilities I doubt they would have a lot of random ones laying around and giving it utilities from another legend would simply defeat the perpose of specialized legend playstyle. Legends wouldn’t be used as these lets say playstyle changers but just as utilities holders because everyone would just chose the perfect ones for them.

Edit: This is same thread made by you few days ago
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/hot/Rev-6-0-are-lock-what-about-Specialization

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/hot/Lets-Chat-Revenant-Masters-of-the-Mist/page/3#post4807887

If they have fixed utilities how would they use racial skills?

GummiBear.2756:

What you are describing yes is freedom when using skills in combat, but it is still very limited freedom in how to build your character, we already on current classes have certain weapons etc that are very very bad to the point of being useless, this will be an issue EVEN more on revenant since you might be lacking crucial “abbilites” for battle (like stun breaks or condition removal etc) if using certain weapons and/or legends, if they do now allow changing of the utilities

Build is the key word because it simply does not apply to revenants in the same way that you’re used to.

For most of the current professions, combat is extremely repetitive because you run a ‘build’ – certain equipment, weapons, utilities – and then execute pretty much the same rotation of abilities in the same order in every fight in large part to make the most of cooldowns.

Because revenant utilities and elites use energy instead of cooldowns, they’re not limited like other professions. For starters they have two healing / utilities / elite bars, one for each equipped legend. So that’s 6 utilities and 2 elites to choose from.

Going back to the point I made earlier, there aren’t really many that types of abilities. Damage, healing, conditions, condition-removers, buffs, crowd control. If another profession wants to specialise in say, condition-removal, generally (except for eg. necros) they need to slot several condition-removing utilities (because of cooldowns). A revenant only needs 1 – which they can use repeatedly (energy permitting).

Ok, you might not be able to choose individual utilities, but you only need 1 utility for whatever you want to focus on. So within the 6 (+ 2 elites) from the two legends you equip, you should be able to get the range of abilities you want.

Look at Jallis. He has a slow + taunt, aoe damage, aoe damage + weaken + stability, and a damage reducer for yourself and allies. He has everything except ally condition removal and ally healing and if those are important for your ‘build’ you’d simply equip a different legend.