Guild Wars 2

There are tons that I simply can’t get because HoT maps are DEAD. There’s no one doing the events. How the heck am I supposed to get event-related masteries?

Trakarg.2095:

There are tons that I simply can’t get because HoT maps are DEAD. There’s no one doing the events. How the heck am I supposed to get event-related masteries?

Use the lfg feature. Especially now most maps see activity for metas and right after for events to unlock Provisioner merchants.

If you enter a HoT map and hope for the best, you are doing it wrong because every one else actively gathers in full maps.

And when there’s nothing with what I need in the LFG? Lol, what then? I shouldn’t be punished just because Anet is leaving HoT zones to die.

Trakarg.2095:

And when there’s nothing with what I need in the LFG? Lol, what then? I shouldn’t be punished just because Anet is leaving HoT zones to die.

Besides the alpha I’m having a hard time remebering which mastery points are so far away from events or meta events which require groups.

Yes the HoT maps require more people but this is solved as I had mentioned by people running all the maps regularly (the maps reset ever 2 hours). Your argument that the maps are dead is moot.

I run those maps daily. They’re not dead. Saying they’re dead doesn’t make them dead. I have completed those zones on so many characters it would make your head spin and I continue to do so.

If you’re on a US server and you want help getting those zones complete, hit me up in game.

Great advice, by the way. I joined a dragon’s stand meta group and got kicked out of the proper map during the dragon death thing.

Trakarg.2095:

Great advice, by the way. I joined a dragon’s stand meta group and got kicked out of the proper map during the dragon death thing.

This always happens. You’re supposed to join a squad before the map closes, and then when you die, you get to a new map at that time, then you right click on the commander and join in his map.

That’s how I do it and it works.

Vayne.8563:

Trakarg.2095:

Great advice, by the way. I joined a dragon’s stand meta group and got kicked out of the proper map during the dragon death thing.

This always happens. You’re supposed to join a squad before the map closes, and then when you die, you get to a new map at that time, then you right click on the commander and join in his map.

That’s how I do it and it works.

The map was full.

Trakarg.2095:

Vayne.8563:

Trakarg.2095:

Great advice, by the way. I joined a dragon’s stand meta group and got kicked out of the proper map during the dragon death thing.

This always happens. You’re supposed to join a squad before the map closes, and then when you die, you get to a new map at that time, then you right click on the commander and join in his map.

That’s how I do it and it works.

The map was full.

keep trying, might take a minute or two, but someones bound to leave for who knows why.

Trakarg.2095:

There are tons that I simply can’t get because HoT maps are DEAD. There’s no one doing the events. How the heck am I supposed to get event-related masteries?

I can’t agree that the HoT maps are dead. Further, many of the mastery points are designed to be unlocked via solo play.

Which event-related mastery unlocks are you having trouble with? Perhaps we can offer assistance? There are a number of people on the forums willing to offer in-game help, too.

It’s possible you’re looking for the big events when they aren’t going on. Keep the wiki open with the event timers. Sometimes I even set alarms to be to an event area and in a squad 20 minutes prior.

I actually have had the same issue but not that i couldnt get them.

I actually havent gotten many because i dont like DS and the lane map with ogres and what not. ( ive spent so little time there i cant think of the 3rd HOT map)

Outside of VB i did not enjoy the HOT maps. I have struggled to get alot of mastery points and if it wasnt for raids i would be so far behind.

Anet released the new map with a new spider man mastery trait and i cant use it because im 3 short.

It would mean going back to a map like bitterfrost, DS, that 3rd HOT and completing crap i didnt like. It is the biggest weakness of the new GW2 game. It requires you to play stuff you dont like in order to get items you might want.

Right now i have a friend (same guild for last 5-6 years) and hes in the top 500 for AP. He has 0 raids done and his first attempts with a training guild and pug group were not good so he has decided screw it i wont do raids. He misses out on AP and mastery points because of it. If Anet comes out with more mastery skills they would require him to do it, it would become a very disappointing thing.

Another guild mates hates that Legendary Armors are tied behind raids. Hes been playing GW1 and 2 for over 10 years and now Anet throws in new content that he doesnt do and makes it a requirement to get the new shiny.

I truly find it funny that Anet killed Map completion in WvW border Lands because PvE players complained.

Anet killed PvP levels and unique armor because PvE players cried and complained.

Now its raids and mastery points and players who dont love raids and PvE are complaining because they want to play the game a certain way. Many would say GW2 has changed and it needed to evolve and we must change with it. I laugh at the idea that this is forward thinking. The new map has a ascended back item where you farm 4 hearts for X amount of days.

One of the first thing Anet said they wouldnt do is make mindless missions like go grab 15 apples or kill X monsters for a little icon on a map.

Well guess what Anet has gone back wards with that and they need to rework mastery points to be fun and creative. If i wanted to play a Korean Grind MMO i would of bought one, i bought GW2 and GW HOT. Had alot of us known HOT would of been like this we wouldnt have bought it.

How can the maps be dead, and full, at the same time? Seems kind of contradictory.

@kdaddy: ArenaNet never stated that the reason that WvW Map Completion was removed was due to popular demand. It was more likely due to changing the maps available; i.e. Desert Borderlands and the new mechanics.

Good luck.

I’m hoping this other expansion will involve a change to mastery points that either gets rid of them entirely or adds in more generic ways to obtain them. I don’t like them being tied to such specific and limited sources. It seems like much the same deal with the old skill points (or was it skill books? something like that) and much the same irritations.

For getting into (and staying in) DS:

Around 10 minutes before map reset — check timers for when this is, but it is half past the hour every two hours, so depending on time of the year and your time zone it will be either on even hours or odd ones — hop into the map and check LFG in the appropriate section. Join a “taxi” squad to make sure you aren’t hopping into a squad from the previous round that forgot to stand down.

Find the commander in the squad. This is easier if s/he has considerately moved to Group 2. Right click and join in map, even before reset.

Wait for reset. Die. Or don’t die, if you are an appropriately traited necro/reaper. As soon as you can, right click your commander again. This means be alive. Either get ressed fast, or if your load screens aren’t hugely long, wp from the death pile to the Pact Camp wp. If you have the option to Join again, you did not end up in his/her map and need to immediately do so before it fills. Note: I have never not been in the commander’s map when I started in his/her map before reset.

Tldr: Get there 10 mins early, get in a squad, join the commander’s map, join again after reset if you didn’t end up in commander’s map.

OR, if you have a tag available, tag up as a taxi yourself and chat in friendly manner to those around you and in Map chat waiting for reset. Then you are guaranteed to have a big group with you at the start of the new map Of course then you may find yourself leading a lane … I go north lane when that happens, lol. But it makes sure the map organizes and completes!

Inculpatus cedo.9234:

How can the maps be dead, and full, at the same time? Seems kind of contradictory.

Megaserver. New maps get an influx of players, some of whom then Join In other maps, leaving one map nearly full and another seemingly empty. Those specifically there to do a map meta are mostly going to transfer to a fuller map. Those who don’t are either: (1) ignorant of the need or process; (2) unwilling; or (3) there for some other reason. HoT maps are plenty big enough to absorb enough population to keep the map open while seeming empty. Those complaining about empty maps are more likely to be from groups 1 or 2.

Do most players claim both? I can see claiming one or the other, but not both as the OP has.

Trakarg.2095:

And when there’s nothing with what I need in the LFG? Lol, what then? I shouldn’t be punished just because Anet is leaving HoT zones to die.

If you don’t see anything then create a group for it.

Inculpatus cedo.9234:

Do most players claim both? I can see claiming one or the other, but not both as the OP has.

It seems he started out saying they were dead. Then someone advised he use the LFG, he did so, got kicked and when he logged back in and tried to rejoin the instance he was participating in, he found the map was full. So, it seems his perception changed as the thread progressed.

Sorry for any confusion.

You could always do some WvWvW and buy hot mastery points with prof of heroics from the chests.

Trakarg.2095:

There are tons that I simply can’t get because HoT maps are DEAD. There’s no one doing the events. How the heck am I supposed to get event-related masteries?

the maps arent dead they work on a timer for the event chains also there are a kittentone of masterieswhich are just go anddd commune with no event needed. The lw3 maps are also full of those and you can get a great amount of mp from there.

That’s because they are dead the very nature of forcing the use of lfg is something that only has to be done on the HoT maps. In addition even doing so during certain times of the day there isn’t even anything available for LFG whether your using a timer or not.

The answer is not to do them

Anet is obviously aware of this with the action they took with season 3 in regards to mastery. So TC this is what you should do get the mastery points you can get in HoT then move into the season 3 maps because while those maps all have masteries they provide more mastery points than the masteries they provide. They are also all possible to get playing solo without the need of LFG. We still have another S3 map to go and that means even more floating Mastery points and each floating mastery point in the new maps will replace one you can’t easily obtain anymore in the core maps.

All these people defending the use of LFG fail to see that the very fact that these maps are so heavily reliant on it is a problem. Core maps, S2, and S3 maps all have meta events and those events get done with the people actively engaging on those maps 24/7. The new map has two legendary destroyers and two groups of five people can easily kill both because they scale properly. HoT doesn’t scale like the rest of the game so there isn’t that constant presence of people soloing content who will band together on those maps.

Basic point better off getting the HoT points on the five S3 maps because its unlikely Anet will ever go back and adjust the HoT maps. Heck with HoT they made things harder for new players in core what with the leather and recipe changes with reduced drops so based on that they’ll probably make things harder in HoT related content too.

Linken.6345:

You could always do some WvWvW and buy hot mastery points with prof of heroics from the chests.

Wvw proofs don’t give you HOT mastery points, they give you hero points for your elite specs. These are 2 completely different things, you can not earn HOT mastery points in wvw.

Inculpatus cedo.9234:

How can the maps be dead, and full, at the same time? Seems kind of contradictory.

@kdaddy: ArenaNet never stated that the reason that WvW Map Completion was removed was due to popular demand. It was more likely due to changing the maps available; i.e. Desert Borderlands and the new mechanics.

Good luck.

By who?

They didnt say, lets all take a guess of the group who didnt want to WvW.

Also the full map empty map thing is due to the mega server.

Everyone crowds into 1 map for the best chance of success and people getting stuck on the outside of that map. Unable to grab enough people to finish a meta map.

Take Care

Your response makes little sense…to me.

Trakarg.2095:

There are tons that I simply can’t get because HoT maps are DEAD. There’s no one doing the events. How the heck am I supposed to get event-related masteries?

That’s odd. I’ve noticed the usual bump of players purchasing HoT during a sale. Lots of first-timers doing hero points, events, etc. And I’ve been completing the meta without issue, same as always.

Doam.8305:

That’s because they are dead the very nature of forcing the use of lfg is something that only has to be done on the HoT maps. In addition even doing so during certain times of the day there isn’t even anything available for LFG whether your using a timer or not.

The answer is not to do them

Anet is obviously aware of this with the action they took with season 3 in regards to mastery. So TC this is what you should do get the mastery points you can get in HoT then move into the season 3 maps because while those maps all have masteries they provide more mastery points than the masteries they provide. They are also all possible to get playing solo without the need of LFG. We still have another S3 map to go and that means even more floating Mastery points and each floating mastery point in the new maps will replace one you can’t easily obtain anymore in the core maps.

All these people defending the use of LFG fail to see that the very fact that these maps are so heavily reliant on it is a problem. Core maps, S2, and S3 maps all have meta events and those events get done with the people actively engaging on those maps 24/7. The new map has two legendary destroyers and two groups of five people can easily kill both because they scale properly. HoT doesn’t scale like the rest of the game so there isn’t that constant presence of people soloing content who will band together on those maps.

Basic point better off getting the HoT points on the five S3 maps because its unlikely Anet will ever go back and adjust the HoT maps. Heck with HoT they made things harder for new players in core what with the leather and recipe changes with reduced drops so based on that they’ll probably make things harder in HoT related content too.

There were four full maps doing the TD meta last night. Not sure why you think that’s dead. but obviously you don’t spend that much time in HOT.

I spent most of my time in HOT and the new zones, and I can assure you none of them are dead. They’re simply more active at certain times BY DESIGN.

The use of the LFG tool to get to an active map also has to be done for Triple Trouble, and that’s not dead either. It’s just hard to do on a map with randoms because the content is harder.

Until a few days ago I thought Dragon’s Stand was dead, then suddenly a lot of people showed up 2 minutes before the counter ran out, I joined them, we died, and did the whole meta. I checked LFG shortly before, and there was no advertisement. It is indeed a long meta event, and you can’t go afk and there are almost no breaks.

I suggest checking the mustering NPCs 10 minutes before the world shuts down. Also check LFG, in case people gather on a different instance. This is quite unlikely though because when you are on that map 10m before the counter runs out, you and two other people will be there and nobody else.

As for most Mastery Points there can be done solo, that’s not true. You need the meta to reach the areas, to collect things, to use an ascended armor. Also, it’s much easier to get around after the event finished successfully, otherwise you have to run to all waypoints instead of porting. And when you die trying, you have to run all the way again.

I collected the mastery points you can do solo, then I joined the meta and got 7 more just by doing the event and knowing beforehand what I have to do.

I am sorry but HOT is bustling with activity. You need to press Y and use the LFG tool, load up a site with event timers and 15-30min decide where you want to go. Get into a game and the map will always fill up.

There’s meta/hp train games 24/7 in HOT areas, I’ve played all types of hours too, there’s always something. Just try use the LFG tool more and if you get into an overflow map, start taxing too and ask others, you can fill it up.

Trakarg.2095:

There are tons that I simply can’t get because HoT maps are DEAD. There’s no one doing the events. How the heck am I supposed to get event-related masteries?

I disagree that HoT maps are dead. They’re going through their usual period of being quiet because a new zone, Draconis Mons, has opened. People naturally flock to the new zones to complete the content. It’s happened in the past (when Bloodstone Fen and Bitterfrost opened) so exercise some patience as more players will return to the HoT maps.

kdaddy.5431:

Anet killed PvP levels and unique armor because PvE players cried and complained.

The “unique” skins weren’t intentional PVP rewards, they were just skins that fell through the cracks and were never properly implemented in PVE. Then Anet implemented the wardrobe and they fell through the cracks yet again before some of them eventually got thrown in a reward track. The only armor specifically intended as a PVP reward was the Glorious Armor.

Trakarg.2095:

There are tons that I simply can’t get because HoT maps are DEAD. There’s no one doing the events. How the heck am I supposed to get event-related masteries?

Not only are HoT maps mostly dead (Like most WvW maps during many times of every single day even up to ‘tier 1), but the worst part about masteries? We can’t reset them.

When they first came out, just like our WvW skills, we needed experience to know which were important and which ‘could wait’ until later, if ever.

We need to reset the masteries since Anet is making it so darn hard to get all of them for filling out masteries some had a year ago but we can’t get for dead maps and confusing achievement ‘directions’.

I don’t want to have to look up a guide or find a guide that is four years old and useless, but that is exactly what most of us have to do, and by this there is no immersion and absolutely no fun.

Empty maps are no fun, Anet. Really.

You should have noticed by now the many going back to GW1 because they are so frustrated with the direction and management of GW2

Zalavaaris.5329:

It’s possible you’re looking for the big events when they aren’t going on. Keep the wiki open with the event timers. Sometimes I even set alarms to be to an event area and in a squad 20 minutes prior.

Sorry but some times of the day (speaking for the NA side) when NO map has any groups on them and no LFG going at all for hours at a time.

The issue isn’t just timers, it’s players.

There are still groups that run both HP runs across all maps and MP runs across them.
I just started back a week ago after a 6 month break (mostly caused by disconnects) and deleted a few toons to reroll them to fix things about them I didn’t like.
I had no trouble getting all of HoT done the first night, and then across 2 nights for the second toon.

Just keep at it and keep LFG up, you’ll get there.

Trakarg.2095:

There are tons that I simply can’t get because HoT maps are DEAD. There’s no one doing the events. How the heck am I supposed to get event-related masteries?

Uhm… what? HoT maps are very much alive. I got all the Hero Points I needed for the Elite Specializations on ten (10!) characters by grouping up with people in order to get the difficult ones, as well as many more through achievements during those maps’ events.

I don’t know what time of the day you play, but here in Europe the HoT maps are highly populated from (early) afternoon till after midnight.

LOL – same people saying the same thing “the maps aren’t dead”. Yet DIFFERENT people keep starting threads deploring that the HoT maps are dead! Hmmm, I see a pattern here.

Maybe the people who keep saying the maps aren’t dead know how to find full maps! Maybe the people who say the maps are dead don’t know how to find full maps because it isn’t told anywhere in-game. I see the OP being criticized because he doesn’t know how the DS meta works. Where is it explained in-game? And if you get kicked out of the DS map because you died and then can’t get into the main map because it’s full, “try again”.

Yes you are right HoT defenders, there is nothing wrong with the HoT maps. Everything is working perfectly. /sarcasm

One has to wonder if Anet fully thought out the consequences of their design. I certainly hope not because its pretty bad if they designed it this way on purpose.

Djinn.9245:

LOL – same people saying the same thing “the maps aren’t dead”. Yet DIFFERENT people keep starting threads deploring that the HoT maps are dead! Hmmm, I see a pattern here.

Maybe the people who keep saying the maps aren’t dead know how to find full maps! Maybe the people who say the maps are dead don’t know how to find full maps because it isn’t told anywhere in-game. I see the OP being criticized because he doesn’t know how the DS meta works. Where is it explained in-game? And if you get kicked out of the DS map because you died and then can’t get into the main map because it’s full, “try again”.

Yes you are right HoT defenders, there is nothing wrong with the HoT maps. Everything is working perfectly. /sarcasm

One has to wonder if Anet fully thought out the consequences of their design. I certainly hope not because its pretty bad if they designed it this way on purpose.

I’ve told people time and time again to message me in game and I’ll prove it. They people saying they’re dead are people who don’t follow timers at all, log in randomly to a map and assume it’s dead without any awareness of how the zone works.

There are people who say the entire game is dead. I had one of them in Metrica Province the other day who said he saw no players. I walked him around the corner because the fire ele was starting. It was an eye opening experience for him.

The HoT maps are designed in such a way where they LOOK dead if you don’t know where to go and what to do.

But since I factually am in those maps almost every day and often all day I can say with 100% certainty they’re not dead.

And those who claim they are only need to contact me in game to be shown otherwise.

Vayne.8563:

LOOK dead

That’s what matters. The average player is simply going to enter HoT and play through the game. It doesn’t matter if there’s a full map in LFG or even if the map is full with everyone in a corner somewhere. If it’s continuously dead to them, they’re going to be discouraged and eventually stop bothering. Some simple UI changes could improve things, such as showing all nearby events and how many people are nearby / how many it’s scaled for. Simply showing the scale would hopefully stop the whole idea of needing 20+ people for a 3+ event.

LFG is a big part of the problem, as it’s potentially killing off 3 other maps per 1 full one. For those simply playing the game, they’re almost always going to find themselves spread out in those dead maps. The megaserver is the other problem, as it prioritizes popular servers, then eventually locks to invite only. If the maps simply filled, LFG wouldn’t be needed.

Big events would be much more accessible if there was simply a UI that showed when they were and you actually queued into a special event map. That way big events could be designed for exact numbers and they wouldn’t be killing off the rest of the map or persisting for other players to login to. I doubt they could do this, but they could also try phasing instead.

Healix.5819:

Vayne.8563:

LOOK dead

That’s what matters. The average player is simply going to enter HoT and play through the game. It doesn’t matter if there’s a full map in LFG or even if the map is full with everyone in a corner somewhere. If it’s continuously dead to them, they’re going to be discouraged and eventually stop bothering. Some simple UI changes could improve things, such as showing all nearby events and how many people are nearby / how many it’s scaled for. Simply showing the scale would hopefully stop the whole idea of needing 20+ people for a 3+ event.

LFG is a big part of the problem, as it’s potentially killing off 3 other maps per 1 full one. For those simply playing the game, they’re almost always going to find themselves spread out in those dead maps. The megaserver is the other problem, as it prioritizes popular servers, then eventually locks to invite only. If the maps simply filled, LFG wouldn’t be needed.

Big events would be much more accessible if there was simply a UI that showed when they were and you actually queued into a special event map. That way big events could be designed for exact numbers and they wouldn’t be killing off the rest of the map or persisting for other players to login to. I doubt they could do this, but they could also try phasing instead.

Even the dead maps aren’t dead, that’s one point no one says. I don’t use LFG unless I want a meta. Most of the time I’m just zone completing on different characters, because I find it fun.

I’ve zone completed VB on almost 30 characters, and AB on 25 of them. And I don’t run with hero point trains and I don’t use LFG very often…there are still people even on the so-called dead maps.

This whole HoT is dead is like when people say the game is dead, which people have been saying for years, even when it was at its height.

You’re not going to get 800 people standing on one hero point. But if you’re in a zone and you just watch map chat, you’re almost guaranteed that someone is going to be doing a hero point, sooner rather than later. This happens so frequently that it’s hard to believe I’m the only one seeing this.

Sure it’s hard to see people with multiple levels and all the foliage. Even if you’re on a VB map doing the meta in the last half of night, everyone will be up in the canopy and you, as a new player on the ground, might not know that anyone is there.

There’s a big community of people who play the HOT zones, not just a few people, a LOT of people.

But the zones are not designed to zerg. They’re designed for small groups to get stuff done.

Three people can do 90% of HoT, without grouping with anyone else at all.

Djinn.9245:

One has to wonder if Anet fully thought out the consequences of their design. I certainly hope not because its pretty bad if they designed it this way on purpose.

Going back to the original GW, a lot of times ANet would just throw content, skills, maps, etc. out there. It seems like they expected the community of players to come up with a way to deal with stuff. And that’s what happened.

Even in GW2, I recall (good luck finding it on these boards, though) an ANet dev commenting that when they released the revised (harder) Tequatl the Sunless meta event, they had not yet beaten it in testing. The community beat it within a short time. Not long after, everyone was beating it. Notably, it was the first content that kind of required LFG/Taxi.

I have little doubt that ANet expected the GW2 community to come up with the best way to do things. That’s what happened. There are no pointers to the player-devised solutions in game (other than the LFG tool itself, and the Join In feature) because: the timers are on third party sites, and ANet has never advertised those sites in game; and because (imo) ANet expects a certain amount of initiative and experimentation on the part of players. At least, they used to.

I believe that the old servers with limited populations allowed for a more interesting experience as far as both challenge and greater initiative on the part of players go. I believe that in the server paradigm, initiative was for the most part focused on completing the events, while in the mega-server paradigm initiative has shifted to getting to the organized map, leaving the in-game initiative to a much smaller subset of the player base.

I go back and forth with the whole megaserver/LFG/dead v. full maps thing. Servers meant more maps (I believe) completing events, but with fewer players. However, to return to that paradigm, convenience features like mega-server, LFG and Join In would need to either be removed or reworked to be less convenient. I believe that any attempt to do so would be met by far more backlash than we see over dead maps.

So, I would say that the current system, while imperfect, is probably better than other alternatives given the game’s history. I have no problem expecting players to figure stuff out, even if the figuring out is for the most part a meta concern. The only thing that sticks in the craw for me is that if Anet is expecting players to figure this method for finding maps out, why did they go to such extremes to invite players to the game that really don’t want to figure stuff out (and yes, that is a rhetorical question).

IndigoSundown.5419:

Djinn.9245:

One has to wonder if Anet fully thought out the consequences of their design. I certainly hope not because its pretty bad if they designed it this way on purpose.

Going back to the original GW, a lot of times ANet would just throw content, skills, maps, etc. out there. It seems like they expected the community of players to come up with a way to deal with stuff. And that’s what happened.

Even in GW2, I recall (good luck finding it on these boards, though) an ANet dev commenting that when they released the revised (harder) Tequatl the Sunless meta event, they had not yet beaten it in testing. The community beat it within a short time. Not long after, everyone was beating it. Notably, it was the first content that kind of required LFG/Taxi.

I have little doubt that ANet expected the GW2 community to come up with the best way to do things. That’s what happened. There are no pointers to the player-devised solutions in game (other than the LFG tool itself, and the Join In feature) because: the timers are on third party sites, and ANet has never advertised those sites in game; and because (imo) ANet expects a certain amount of initiative and experimentation on the part of players. At least, they used to.

I believe that the old servers with limited populations allowed for a more interesting experience as far as both challenge and greater initiative on the part of players go. I believe that in the server paradigm, initiative was for the most part focused on completing the events, while in the mega-server paradigm initiative has shifted to getting to the organized map, leaving the in-game initiative to a much smaller subset of the player base.

I go back and forth with the whole megaserver/LFG/dead v. full maps thing. Servers meant more maps (I believe) completing events, but with fewer players. However, to return to that paradigm, convenience features like mega-server, LFG and Join In would need to either be removed or reworked to be less convenient. I believe that any attempt to do so would be met by far more backlash than we see over dead maps.

So, I would say that the current system, while imperfect, is probably better than other alternatives given the game’s history. I have no problem expecting players to figure stuff out, even if the figuring out is for the most part a meta concern. The only thing that sticks in the craw for me is that if Anet is expecting players to figure this method for finding maps out, why did they go to such extremes to invite players to the game that really don’t want to figure stuff out (and yes, that is a rhetorical question).

In response to your rhetorical question:

Because they expected that those players who do enjoy figuring things out would do so for everyone. The information woukd then trickle down to those who dont want to figure things out over time.

Cyninja.2954:

Use the lfg feature.

Doesn’t work unless you have a lot of patience.

Daddicus.6128:

Cyninja.2954:

Use the lfg feature.

Doesn’t work unless you have a lot of patience.

You don’t need a “lot” of patience to use LFG. You need a bit of discipline though. Which is different from patience. That is to say if you can follow a timer and set an alarm,you can get to where you’re getting early and do other things in the zone, while waiting for a specifiic meta. There’s plenty to do in each zone, including events that lead up to the meta.

Vayne.8563:

Daddicus.6128:

Cyninja.2954:

Use the lfg feature.

Doesn’t work unless you have a lot of patience.

You don’t need a “lot” of patience to use LFG. You need a bit of discipline though. Which is different from patience. That is to say if you can follow a timer and set an alarm,you can get to where you’re getting early and do other things in the zone, while waiting for a specifiic meta. There’s plenty to do in each zone, including events that lead up to the meta.

It may be discipline to you. To me, it’s, “The tail (the game) wagging the dog (the player’s life).” While I’ve made my peace with the idea that my completing a zone meta in HoT is going to be a matter of happenstance, I am not going to play a game based on some timer, nor am I going to play as much as you seem to, to where using a timer is simply a matter of altering where in the game I’m playing.

I suspect, also, that the patience referred to is related to the use of Join In which results in a Zone is Full message. If one refuses to tailor life around game, that happens all too often. Now, maybe an MMO is supposed to suck your life away for you to get things done. Been there, done that, never again.

Regardless, BSF is an indication that ANet is moving away from HoT event design — although I’ve no idea if they’ll ping pong yet again (or if they did in later LS zones).

IndigoSundown.5419:

Vayne.8563:

Daddicus.6128:

Cyninja.2954:

Use the lfg feature.

Doesn’t work unless you have a lot of patience.

You don’t need a “lot” of patience to use LFG. You need a bit of discipline though. Which is different from patience. That is to say if you can follow a timer and set an alarm,you can get to where you’re getting early and do other things in the zone, while waiting for a specifiic meta. There’s plenty to do in each zone, including events that lead up to the meta.

It may be discipline to you. To me, it’s, “The tail (the game) wagging the dog (the player’s life).” While I’ve made my peace with the idea that my completing a zone meta in HoT is going to be a matter of happenstance, I am not going to play a game based on some timer, nor am I going to play as much as you seem to, to where using a timer is simply a matter of altering where in the game I’m playing.

I suspect, also, that the patience referred to is related to the use of Join In which results in a Zone is Full message. If one refuses to tailor life around game, that happens all too often. Now, maybe an MMO is supposed to suck your life away for you to get things done. Been there, done that, never again.

Regardless, BSF is an indication that ANet is moving away from HoT event design — although I’ve no idea if they’ll ping pong yet again (or if they did in later LS zones).

You can’t be troubled to show up to the map 15 minutes ahead of the meta and keep an eye on LFG until you secure a spot on an organized map? That’s what you call “tailoring your life to the game”?

AliamRationem.5172:

You can’t be troubled to show up to the map 15 minutes ahead of the meta and keep an eye on LFG until you secure a spot on an organized map? That’s what you call “tailoring your life to the game”?

I play GW2 when nothing else is going on. I’ve jumped through the timing hoops of MMO’s before. I’m not doing it again. While GW2’s might not be as strenuous as those imposed in some other MMO’s, yes, that would be letting the game dictate what I do when, when I want it the other way around. That usually means metas, which last a lot longer than 15 minutes, are usually in progress when I log in.

Don’t get me wrong, I’m not complaining about that. I actually don’t give a rat’s behind if I get to do a meta event in Zone X today. I can see, though, why others are complaining.

What I find curious is that while core GW2 also has timed meta events, there’s one starting about every 15 minutes around the clock, so whenever someone logs in, s/he could do one if so inclined. There’s also a lot of other stuff going on in core beside those meta events. In HoT, the zone meta comprises a much greater percentage of what there is to do than in core, and doing those metas often requires one to log in early and use the LFG work-around. That means that HoT is less friendly to drop-in gamers like me. Drop-in gamers were a demographic that ANet, once upon a time, stated they wanted around.

It’s kind of a moot point until we get to XPac 2, though. HoT is not going to change at this late date. BSF and EB are designed to include drop in gamers. I’m curious to see which way ANet will jump in the new pack.

Vayne.8563:

Healix.5819:

Vayne.8563:

LOOK dead

That’s what matters. The average player is simply going to enter HoT and play through the game. It doesn’t matter if there’s a full map in LFG or even if the map is full with everyone in a corner somewhere. If it’s continuously dead to them, they’re going to be discouraged and eventually stop bothering. Some simple UI changes could improve things, such as showing all nearby events and how many people are nearby / how many it’s scaled for. Simply showing the scale would hopefully stop the whole idea of needing 20+ people for a 3+ event.

LFG is a big part of the problem, as it’s potentially killing off 3 other maps per 1 full one. For those simply playing the game, they’re almost always going to find themselves spread out in those dead maps. The megaserver is the other problem, as it prioritizes popular servers, then eventually locks to invite only. If the maps simply filled, LFG wouldn’t be needed.

Big events would be much more accessible if there was simply a UI that showed when they were and you actually queued into a special event map. That way big events could be designed for exact numbers and they wouldn’t be killing off the rest of the map or persisting for other players to login to. I doubt they could do this, but they could also try phasing instead.

Even the dead maps aren’t dead, that’s one point no one says. I don’t use LFG unless I want a meta. Most of the time I’m just zone completing on different characters, because I find it fun.

I’ve zone completed VB on almost 30 characters, and AB on 25 of them. And I don’t run with hero point trains and I don’t use LFG very often…there are still people even on the so-called dead maps.

This whole HoT is dead is like when people say the game is dead, which people have been saying for years, even when it was at its height.

You’re not going to get 800 people standing on one hero point. But if you’re in a zone and you just watch map chat, you’re almost guaranteed that someone is going to be doing a hero point, sooner rather than later. This happens so frequently that it’s hard to believe I’m the only one seeing this.

Sure it’s hard to see people with multiple levels and all the foliage. Even if you’re on a VB map doing the meta in the last half of night, everyone will be up in the canopy and you, as a new player on the ground, might not know that anyone is there.

There’s a big community of people who play the HOT zones, not just a few people, a LOT of people.

But the zones are not designed to zerg. They’re designed for small groups to get stuff done.

Three people can do 90% of HoT, without grouping with anyone else at all.

It seems to me that if the crux of your argument is that 90% of HoT can be done with three people, that’s missing the point. I would imagine most people who are inclined to call a map dead were hoping to find more than three people.

Strictly speaking, many meta events can be done with a handful of players. But that doesn’t mean that’s what the average player wants to see. HoT maps are big and the term MMO has the word massively in it for a reason. I think it’s safe to say people are generally looking for a sizable group.

I also disagree with your assertion that the zones are made for small groups getting stuff done. “Small group” meaning what size? 10? 20? 3? If you mean something in the range of 3, I would say that’s a ludicrous assertion, when you factor in events like Vinetooth. If by small you mean 10-15, I might be willing to concede the point.

And it’s important because there’s a huge difference between 3 and 10-15. 3 is “we better all be very good at this or we’re screwed.” 10-15 is "most of us can make a lot of mistakes and we’ll get by on the sheer power of reviving each other and making up for individual skill with numbers. (For most events. Some are not that easy.)

Labjax.2465:

Vayne.8563:

Healix.5819:

Vayne.8563:

LOOK dead

That’s what matters. The average player is simply going to enter HoT and play through the game. It doesn’t matter if there’s a full map in LFG or even if the map is full with everyone in a corner somewhere. If it’s continuously dead to them, they’re going to be discouraged and eventually stop bothering. Some simple UI changes could improve things, such as showing all nearby events and how many people are nearby / how many it’s scaled for. Simply showing the scale would hopefully stop the whole idea of needing 20+ people for a 3+ event.

LFG is a big part of the problem, as it’s potentially killing off 3 other maps per 1 full one. For those simply playing the game, they’re almost always going to find themselves spread out in those dead maps. The megaserver is the other problem, as it prioritizes popular servers, then eventually locks to invite only. If the maps simply filled, LFG wouldn’t be needed.

Big events would be much more accessible if there was simply a UI that showed when they were and you actually queued into a special event map. That way big events could be designed for exact numbers and they wouldn’t be killing off the rest of the map or persisting for other players to login to. I doubt they could do this, but they could also try phasing instead.

Even the dead maps aren’t dead, that’s one point no one says. I don’t use LFG unless I want a meta. Most of the time I’m just zone completing on different characters, because I find it fun.

I’ve zone completed VB on almost 30 characters, and AB on 25 of them. And I don’t run with hero point trains and I don’t use LFG very often…there are still people even on the so-called dead maps.

This whole HoT is dead is like when people say the game is dead, which people have been saying for years, even when it was at its height.

You’re not going to get 800 people standing on one hero point. But if you’re in a zone and you just watch map chat, you’re almost guaranteed that someone is going to be doing a hero point, sooner rather than later. This happens so frequently that it’s hard to believe I’m the only one seeing this.

Sure it’s hard to see people with multiple levels and all the foliage. Even if you’re on a VB map doing the meta in the last half of night, everyone will be up in the canopy and you, as a new player on the ground, might not know that anyone is there.

There’s a big community of people who play the HOT zones, not just a few people, a LOT of people.

But the zones are not designed to zerg. They’re designed for small groups to get stuff done.

Three people can do 90% of HoT, without grouping with anyone else at all.

It seems to me that if the crux of your argument is that 90% of HoT can be done with three people, that’s missing the point. I would imagine most people who are inclined to call a map dead were hoping to find more than three people.

Strictly speaking, many meta events can be done with a handful of players. But that doesn’t mean that’s what the average player wants to see. HoT maps are big and the term MMO has the word massively in it for a reason. I think it’s safe to say people are generally looking for a sizable group.

I also disagree with your assertion that the zones are made for small groups getting stuff done. “Small group” meaning what size? 10? 20? 3? If you mean something in the range of 3, I would say that’s a ludicrous assertion, when you factor in events like Vinetooth. If by small you mean 10-15, I might be willing to concede the point.

And it’s important because there’s a huge difference between 3 and 10-15. 3 is “we better all be very good at this or we’re screwed.” 10-15 is "most of us can make a lot of mistakes and we’ll get by on the sheer power of reviving each other and making up for individual skill with numbers. (For most events. Some are not that easy.)

You don’t understand my argument at all. I bring two people with me if I want to be serious. If people can’t find two friends in an MMO I’m not sure what to tell them.

That said, no, there’s far far far more than three people in a zone. I can’t ever remember a time when there weren’t enough people in a zone to do content, even without LFG except when a new build is out and I don’t reset.

Even if I get on a new map it’s not long before other people are on that new map with me.

IndigoSundown.5419:

AliamRationem.5172:

You can’t be troubled to show up to the map 15 minutes ahead of the meta and keep an eye on LFG until you secure a spot on an organized map? That’s what you call “tailoring your life to the game”?

I play GW2 when nothing else is going on. I’ve jumped through the timing hoops of MMO’s before. I’m not doing it again. While GW2’s might not be as strenuous as those imposed in some other MMO’s, yes, that would be letting the game dictate what I do when, when I want it the other way around. That usually means metas, which last a lot longer than 15 minutes, are usually in progress when I log in.

Don’t get me wrong, I’m not complaining about that. I actually don’t give a rat’s behind if I get to do a meta event in Zone X today. I can see, though, why others are complaining.

What I find curious is that while core GW2 also has timed meta events, there’s one starting about every 15 minutes around the clock, so whenever someone logs in, s/he could do one if so inclined. There’s also a lot of other stuff going on in core beside those meta events. In HoT, the zone meta comprises a much greater percentage of what there is to do than in core, and doing those metas often requires one to log in early and use the LFG work-around. That means that HoT is less friendly to drop-in gamers like me. Drop-in gamers were a demographic that ANet, once upon a time, stated they wanted around.

It’s kind of a moot point until we get to XPac 2, though. HoT is not going to change at this late date. BSF and EB are designed to include drop in gamers. I’m curious to see which way ANet will jump in the new pack.

I’ve jumped through hoops in MMOs before too this is NOTHING like that. I only need to get on the full server if I absolutely want to do the meta. If I don’t care about the meta I just log in and play as I’ve said many times. There are still enough people in zones not doing the meta to do content.

On the other side of that coin, timers have been in this game for years, way before HOT ever was. So if you wanted to do the fire ele, how did you do it without using a timer? Or Tequatl? Or anything else?

You either used a timer, or you missed out….long before HOT had come along.

On that note, this is about mastery points, and there are very very very few mastery points specifically that I can’t get solo.

AliamRationem.5172:

You can’t be troubled to show up to the map 15 minutes ahead of the meta and keep an eye on LFG until you secure a spot on an organized map? That’s what you call “tailoring your life to the game”?

Showing up 15 minutes ahead of whatever your goal is = 15 minutes wasted. Then if you don’t end up getting into the organized map (which has happened to me multiple times), then whatever time you spent clicking Join In is also wasted. If you only have an hour to play, 15-30 min is significant.