Guild Wars 2

Vayne.8563:

IndigoSundown.5419:

While GW2’s (timer stuff) might not be as strenuous as those imposed in some other MMO’s, yes, that would be letting the game dictate what I do when…

What I find curious is that while core GW2 also has timed meta events, there’s one starting about every 15 minutes around the clock, so whenever someone logs in, s/he could do one if so inclined … In HoT, the zone meta comprises a much greater percentage of what there is to do than in core, and doing those metas often requires one to log in early and use the LFG work-around. That means that HoT is less friendly to drop-in gamers …

I’ve jumped through hoops in MMOs before too this is NOTHING like that. I only need to get on the full server if I absolutely want to do the meta. If I don’t care about the meta I just log in and play as I’ve said many times. There are still enough people in zones not doing the meta to do content.

On the other side of that coin, timers have been in this game for years, way before HOT ever was. So if you wanted to do the fire ele, how did you do it without using a timer? Or Tequatl? Or anything else?

You either used a timer, or you missed out….long before HOT had come along.

On that note, this is about mastery points, and there are very very very few mastery points specifically that I can’t get solo.

I’ll concede the mastery point thing, although there are some tied to meta events, which matter more if one also dislikes mini-games, but that’s also another topic.

Other than that, perhaps you did not read my post before you commented. I’ve culled out all but the relevant points, above.

Djinn.9245:

AliamRationem.5172:

You can’t be troubled to show up to the map 15 minutes ahead of the meta and keep an eye on LFG until you secure a spot on an organized map? That’s what you call “tailoring your life to the game”?

Showing up 15 minutes ahead of whatever your goal is = 15 minutes wasted. Then if you don’t end up getting into the organized map (which has happened to me multiple times), then whatever time you spent clicking Join In is also wasted. If you only have an hour to play, 15-30 min is significant.

I’m sorry but gathering stuff is never wasted and there’s plenty to gather. Getting zone currency isn’t wasted either. Even getting XP isn’t wasted if you’re still leveling masteries. Drops are still drops.

If you stand in one place for 15 minutes and do nothing, that’s fine. I’m doing events and farming.

IndigoSundown.5419:

Vayne.8563:

IndigoSundown.5419:

While GW2’s (timer stuff) might not be as strenuous as those imposed in some other MMO’s, yes, that would be letting the game dictate what I do when…

What I find curious is that while core GW2 also has timed meta events, there’s one starting about every 15 minutes around the clock, so whenever someone logs in, s/he could do one if so inclined … In HoT, the zone meta comprises a much greater percentage of what there is to do than in core, and doing those metas often requires one to log in early and use the LFG work-around. That means that HoT is less friendly to drop-in gamers …

I’ve jumped through hoops in MMOs before too this is NOTHING like that. I only need to get on the full server if I absolutely want to do the meta. If I don’t care about the meta I just log in and play as I’ve said many times. There are still enough people in zones not doing the meta to do content.

On the other side of that coin, timers have been in this game for years, way before HOT ever was. So if you wanted to do the fire ele, how did you do it without using a timer? Or Tequatl? Or anything else?

You either used a timer, or you missed out….long before HOT had come along.

On that note, this is about mastery points, and there are very very very few mastery points specifically that I can’t get solo.

I’ll concede the mastery point thing, although there are some tied to meta events, which matter more if one also dislikes mini-games, but that’s also another topic.

Other than that, perhaps you did not read my post before you commented. I’ve culled out all but the relevant points, above.

But there are so many mastery points in the game, that you don’t need the ones tied to the meta events and seriously, you’re saying you can’t log in once to try a meta event once, because you’ve decided doing so is jumping through hoops?

I’ve done the AB meta more than a hundred times. The TD meta doesn’t succeed as often even though it’s actually easier, just less people know it.

Dragon Stand is one of my favorite meta’s in the game and the wait to start it is usually less than 5 minutes. I just don’t see the issue here…except perhaps people who don’t know what to do.

Vayne.8563:

… and seriously, you’re saying you can’t log in once to try a meta event once, because you’ve decided doing so is jumping through hoops?

That’s not what I said at all. What I said was that I will not plan my life around a game’s schedule. I don’t look at timers because I don’t want that information in my subconscious. If I happen to log in when a meta is going (or about to get going) then I participate if the mood strikes me. There’s no can’t involved. Maybe that makes me the poster child for drop-in gaming. I’m sure that players who play MMO’s as a hobby (or in some cases even more fervently) may find such an attitude perplexing (or even irritating). Still, I’m glad that it’s a play-style that ANet seems to have returned to supporting in LS3.

Vayne.8563:

IndigoSundown.5419:

Vayne.8563:

IndigoSundown.5419:

While GW2’s (timer stuff) might not be as strenuous as those imposed in some other MMO’s, yes, that would be letting the game dictate what I do when…

What I find curious is that while core GW2 also has timed meta events, there’s one starting about every 15 minutes around the clock, so whenever someone logs in, s/he could do one if so inclined … In HoT, the zone meta comprises a much greater percentage of what there is to do than in core, and doing those metas often requires one to log in early and use the LFG work-around. That means that HoT is less friendly to drop-in gamers …

I’ve jumped through hoops in MMOs before too this is NOTHING like that. I only need to get on the full server if I absolutely want to do the meta. If I don’t care about the meta I just log in and play as I’ve said many times. There are still enough people in zones not doing the meta to do content.

On the other side of that coin, timers have been in this game for years, way before HOT ever was. So if you wanted to do the fire ele, how did you do it without using a timer? Or Tequatl? Or anything else?

You either used a timer, or you missed out….long before HOT had come along.

On that note, this is about mastery points, and there are very very very few mastery points specifically that I can’t get solo.

I’ll concede the mastery point thing, although there are some tied to meta events, which matter more if one also dislikes mini-games, but that’s also another topic.

Other than that, perhaps you did not read my post before you commented. I’ve culled out all but the relevant points, above.

But there are so many mastery points in the game, that you don’t need the ones tied to the meta events and seriously, you’re saying you can’t log in once to try a meta event once, because you’ve decided doing so is jumping through hoops?

I’ve done the AB meta more than a hundred times. The TD meta doesn’t succeed as often even though it’s actually easier, just less people know it.

Dragon Stand is one of my favorite meta’s in the game and the wait to start it is usually less than 5 minutes. I just don’t see the issue here…except perhaps people who don’t know what to do.

I have to disagree with you on this one. You usually make very valid points, even i can admit that even though ive done AB and DS meta events. I could of done them alot more and got all the mastery points and didnt want too.

I recently have become very busy and cant even log in every day and when i do i jump in to try and get 1-2 mastery points or WvW for 30 min and then i have to leave.

This person is calling themself the most casual of gamers. You cant ask them to watch for timers and sit around for a hour especially if they only have a hour to play and this meta event isnt what they want to do.

Your usual argument of this part of the game might not be for you could apply here, it just sucks since Anet was the casual MMO and after 4 years they come out with HOT and it really doesnt fall in line for alot of players.

IndigoSundown.5419:

Vayne.8563:

… and seriously, you’re saying you can’t log in once to try a meta event once, because you’ve decided doing so is jumping through hoops?

That’s not what I said at all. What I said was that I will not plan my life around a game’s schedule. I don’t look at timers because I don’t want that information in my subconscious. If I happen to log in when a meta is going (or about to get going) then I participate if the mood strikes me. There’s no can’t involved. Maybe that makes me the poster child for drop-in gaming. I’m sure that players who play MMO’s as a hobby (or in some cases even more fervently) may find such an attitude perplexing (or even irritating). Still, I’m glad that it’s a play-style that ANet seems to have returned to supporting in LS3.

Okay let’s talk about how reasonable what you’re saying is. You say you don’t want to look at a schedule because you don’t want it in your subsconscious? So how would you do the fire ele? What other reason would you ever have to be in that area of metrica anyway.

But then it’s just the fire ele, who cares. You can rock up any time and get it if it’s on. No need to be early.

I’d rather have one meta like TD that 400 world bosses like the fire ele which simply don’t do anything at all for me.

The harder you make content the more likely people are going to try to get an advantage by being on a full map. I don’t enjoy Tequatl, because it’s on farm and I’m stacked in one place, and it just feels pointless. So I don’t need another tequatl.

If you want more complex metas, you have to sacrifice something because some organization is being required. Roll up gameplay is always at odds with complexity, in anything but a single player game.

So what you’re really saying is you can do with more world bosses like the maw, the fire ele or the great jungle wurm.

I’d just rather have the situation I have with HoT than the situation I have with world bosses in core Tyria.

kdaddy.5431:

Vayne.8563:

IndigoSundown.5419:

Vayne.8563:

IndigoSundown.5419:

While GW2’s (timer stuff) might not be as strenuous as those imposed in some other MMO’s, yes, that would be letting the game dictate what I do when…

What I find curious is that while core GW2 also has timed meta events, there’s one starting about every 15 minutes around the clock, so whenever someone logs in, s/he could do one if so inclined … In HoT, the zone meta comprises a much greater percentage of what there is to do than in core, and doing those metas often requires one to log in early and use the LFG work-around. That means that HoT is less friendly to drop-in gamers …

I’ve jumped through hoops in MMOs before too this is NOTHING like that. I only need to get on the full server if I absolutely want to do the meta. If I don’t care about the meta I just log in and play as I’ve said many times. There are still enough people in zones not doing the meta to do content.

On the other side of that coin, timers have been in this game for years, way before HOT ever was. So if you wanted to do the fire ele, how did you do it without using a timer? Or Tequatl? Or anything else?

You either used a timer, or you missed out….long before HOT had come along.

On that note, this is about mastery points, and there are very very very few mastery points specifically that I can’t get solo.

I’ll concede the mastery point thing, although there are some tied to meta events, which matter more if one also dislikes mini-games, but that’s also another topic.

Other than that, perhaps you did not read my post before you commented. I’ve culled out all but the relevant points, above.

But there are so many mastery points in the game, that you don’t need the ones tied to the meta events and seriously, you’re saying you can’t log in once to try a meta event once, because you’ve decided doing so is jumping through hoops?

I’ve done the AB meta more than a hundred times. The TD meta doesn’t succeed as often even though it’s actually easier, just less people know it.

Dragon Stand is one of my favorite meta’s in the game and the wait to start it is usually less than 5 minutes. I just don’t see the issue here…except perhaps people who don’t know what to do.

I have to disagree with you on this one. You usually make very valid points, even i can admit that even though ive done AB and DS meta events. I could of done them alot more and got all the mastery points and didnt want too.

I recently have become very busy and cant even log in every day and when i do i jump in to try and get 1-2 mastery points or WvW for 30 min and then i have to leave.

This person is calling themself the most casual of gamers. You cant ask them to watch for timers and sit around for a hour especially if they only have a hour to play and this meta event isnt what they want to do.

Your usual argument of this part of the game might not be for you could apply here, it just sucks since Anet was the casual MMO and after 4 years they come out with HOT and it really doesnt fall in line for alot of players.

The most casual gamer doesn’t need, nor should they expect to get 186 mastery levels. There are many many many points you can get without ever doing a meta. Ever.

There’s one in AB that requires gliding under three arches. There are many communes and strong boxes, there are tons of easy to get ones to get the masteries you need to play.

You can’t tailor an MMO for someone who doesn’t have time to play because then everyone who does will simply be bored and leave. There’s always a balance required.

You tailor an MMO for the middle ground.

Someone who refuses to go to a timer site, and refuses to go to LFG for whatever reason will get left behind and that’s okay.

Because your other option is to make only simply stuff and you lose a lot of other people. There’s no good way to balance it.

I think HoT, on launch, was horribly overtuned and I think it’s still a bit overturned, toward harder core players. I think Anet could have done more to make it more palatable to the most casual players.

But there are definitely people I know how don’t like core Tyria and love HoT because core Tyria is way too easy and those people are back playing again.

It’s always got to be somewhere in the middle and everyone’s middle is going to be different.

Djinn.9245:

Maybe the people who keep saying the maps aren’t dead know how to find full maps! Maybe the people who say the maps are dead don’t know how to find full maps because it isn’t told anywhere in-game.

Yes. It is called the LFG (Looking For Group) tool that should always be used to either find an event map or initiate one by taxiing people in.

Djinn.9245:

I see the OP being criticized because he doesn’t know how the DS meta works. Where is it explained in-game?

I absolutely agree with that kind of criticism.

The game, in general, is in no way self-explanatory. The fact that none of the events (especially Dragon’s Stand) is explained, is only one of the many things that cause newbies a severe headache (and understandably so). You do have to ask in order to learn, or else you are lost.

As for the LFG tool, took me a while myself to figure it out (I think it was updated since then to increase its usability).

btw, taxis are not explained in the game either, they are not kind of the lore.

I only figured out what a taxi is because I asked someone when I read about it in map chat. And then, only after I participated in a gw2community organized Triple Trouble event, I really figured out how the map instances work and how and why people use taxis. Now, I don’t even need an LFG to get to a good map instance because I can guess who will command and just /sqjoin. I’m pretty sure there are casual players who played for a year or more and have no clue how map instances and taxis work.

mastery points in HoT are not that bad, mastery points in tyria are kinda bare. In hot they seem to have more extra points, and they have masteries that are not that important, so you can skip, unless you are a completionist, in which case you d be trying to do everything anyway

but the thing im unsure of, if you hate hot, why do you need mastery points? They are for HoT content. They give you access to more of hot, and make exploring hot easier.

while i think mastery system needs tweaks and improvements, its actually over all, a really logical system. it rewards people who like to do the content with more access and depth to the content.

Vayne.8563:

kdaddy.5431:

Vayne.8563:

IndigoSundown.5419:

Vayne.8563:

IndigoSundown.5419:

While GW2’s (timer stuff) might not be as strenuous as those imposed in some other MMO’s, yes, that would be letting the game dictate what I do when…

What I find curious is that while core GW2 also has timed meta events, there’s one starting about every 15 minutes around the clock, so whenever someone logs in, s/he could do one if so inclined … In HoT, the zone meta comprises a much greater percentage of what there is to do than in core, and doing those metas often requires one to log in early and use the LFG work-around. That means that HoT is less friendly to drop-in gamers …

I’ve jumped through hoops in MMOs before too this is NOTHING like that. I only need to get on the full server if I absolutely want to do the meta. If I don’t care about the meta I just log in and play as I’ve said many times. There are still enough people in zones not doing the meta to do content.

On the other side of that coin, timers have been in this game for years, way before HOT ever was. So if you wanted to do the fire ele, how did you do it without using a timer? Or Tequatl? Or anything else?

You either used a timer, or you missed out….long before HOT had come along.

On that note, this is about mastery points, and there are very very very few mastery points specifically that I can’t get solo.

I’ll concede the mastery point thing, although there are some tied to meta events, which matter more if one also dislikes mini-games, but that’s also another topic.

Other than that, perhaps you did not read my post before you commented. I’ve culled out all but the relevant points, above.

But there are so many mastery points in the game, that you don’t need the ones tied to the meta events and seriously, you’re saying you can’t log in once to try a meta event once, because you’ve decided doing so is jumping through hoops?

I’ve done the AB meta more than a hundred times. The TD meta doesn’t succeed as often even though it’s actually easier, just less people know it.

Dragon Stand is one of my favorite meta’s in the game and the wait to start it is usually less than 5 minutes. I just don’t see the issue here…except perhaps people who don’t know what to do.

I have to disagree with you on this one. You usually make very valid points, even i can admit that even though ive done AB and DS meta events. I could of done them alot more and got all the mastery points and didnt want too.

I recently have become very busy and cant even log in every day and when i do i jump in to try and get 1-2 mastery points or WvW for 30 min and then i have to leave.

This person is calling themself the most casual of gamers. You cant ask them to watch for timers and sit around for a hour especially if they only have a hour to play and this meta event isnt what they want to do.

Your usual argument of this part of the game might not be for you could apply here, it just sucks since Anet was the casual MMO and after 4 years they come out with HOT and it really doesnt fall in line for alot of players.

The most casual gamer doesn’t need, nor should they expect to get 186 mastery levels. There are many many many points you can get without ever doing a meta. Ever.

There’s one in AB that requires gliding under three arches. There are many communes and strong boxes, there are tons of easy to get ones to get the masteries you need to play.

You can’t tailor an MMO for someone who doesn’t have time to play because then everyone who does will simply be bored and leave. There’s always a balance required.

You tailor an MMO for the middle ground.

Someone who refuses to go to a timer site, and refuses to go to LFG for whatever reason will get left behind and that’s okay.

Because your other option is to make only simply stuff and you lose a lot of other people. There’s no good way to balance it.

I think HoT, on launch, was horribly overtuned and I think it’s still a bit overturned, toward harder core players. I think Anet could have done more to make it more palatable to the most casual players.

But there are definitely people I know how don’t like core Tyria and love HoT because core Tyria is way too easy and those people are back playing again.

It’s always got to be somewhere in the middle and everyone’s middle is going to be different.

Exactly. I am not a completionist. I got the masteries I needed/wanted and …. meh. I hate the minigames and only did the HOT story part-way. My only reason to go to the HOT zones now is to farm keys for my home instance nodes.

I am pretty much biding my time until we get a new expansion. I log in, gather my home node stuff, and maybe run a LS3 zone.

Vayne.8563:

kdaddy.5431:

Vayne.8563:

IndigoSundown.5419:

Vayne.8563:

IndigoSundown.5419:

While GW2’s (timer stuff) might not be as strenuous as those imposed in some other MMO’s, yes, that would be letting the game dictate what I do when…

What I find curious is that while core GW2 also has timed meta events, there’s one starting about every 15 minutes around the clock, so whenever someone logs in, s/he could do one if so inclined … In HoT, the zone meta comprises a much greater percentage of what there is to do than in core, and doing those metas often requires one to log in early and use the LFG work-around. That means that HoT is less friendly to drop-in gamers …

I’ve jumped through hoops in MMOs before too this is NOTHING like that. I only need to get on the full server if I absolutely want to do the meta. If I don’t care about the meta I just log in and play as I’ve said many times. There are still enough people in zones not doing the meta to do content.

On the other side of that coin, timers have been in this game for years, way before HOT ever was. So if you wanted to do the fire ele, how did you do it without using a timer? Or Tequatl? Or anything else?

You either used a timer, or you missed out….long before HOT had come along.

On that note, this is about mastery points, and there are very very very few mastery points specifically that I can’t get solo.

I’ll concede the mastery point thing, although there are some tied to meta events, which matter more if one also dislikes mini-games, but that’s also another topic.

Other than that, perhaps you did not read my post before you commented. I’ve culled out all but the relevant points, above.

But there are so many mastery points in the game, that you don’t need the ones tied to the meta events and seriously, you’re saying you can’t log in once to try a meta event once, because you’ve decided doing so is jumping through hoops?

I’ve done the AB meta more than a hundred times. The TD meta doesn’t succeed as often even though it’s actually easier, just less people know it.

Dragon Stand is one of my favorite meta’s in the game and the wait to start it is usually less than 5 minutes. I just don’t see the issue here…except perhaps people who don’t know what to do.

I have to disagree with you on this one. You usually make very valid points, even i can admit that even though ive done AB and DS meta events. I could of done them alot more and got all the mastery points and didnt want too.

I recently have become very busy and cant even log in every day and when i do i jump in to try and get 1-2 mastery points or WvW for 30 min and then i have to leave.

This person is calling themself the most casual of gamers. You cant ask them to watch for timers and sit around for a hour especially if they only have a hour to play and this meta event isnt what they want to do.

Your usual argument of this part of the game might not be for you could apply here, it just sucks since Anet was the casual MMO and after 4 years they come out with HOT and it really doesnt fall in line for alot of players.

The most casual gamer doesn’t need, nor should they expect to get 186 mastery levels. There are many many many points you can get without ever doing a meta. Ever.

There’s one in AB that requires gliding under three arches. There are many communes and strong boxes, there are tons of easy to get ones to get the masteries you need to play.

You can’t tailor an MMO for someone who doesn’t have time to play because then everyone who does will simply be bored and leave. There’s always a balance required.

You tailor an MMO for the middle ground.

Someone who refuses to go to a timer site, and refuses to go to LFG for whatever reason will get left behind and that’s okay.

Because your other option is to make only simply stuff and you lose a lot of other people. There’s no good way to balance it.

I think HoT, on launch, was horribly overtuned and I think it’s still a bit overturned, toward harder core players. I think Anet could have done more to make it more palatable to the most casual players.

But there are definitely people I know how don’t like core Tyria and love HoT because core Tyria is way too easy and those people are back playing again.

It’s always got to be somewhere in the middle and everyone’s middle is going to be different.

Well said.

phys.7689:

mastery points in HoT are not that bad, mastery points in tyria are kinda bare. In hot they seem to have more extra points, and they have masteries that are not that important, so you can skip, unless you are a completionist, in which case you d be trying to do everything anyway

but the thing im unsure of, if you hate hot, why do you need mastery points? They are for HoT content. They give you access to more of hot, and make exploring hot easier.

while i think mastery system needs tweaks and improvements, its actually over all, a really logical system. it rewards people who like to do the content with more access and depth to the content.

???

All of the HoT Masteries are also required in the maps AFTER HoT: Bloodstone Fen, Ember Bay, Bitterfrost, Lake Doric, Draconis Mons.

Vayne.8563:

Okay let’s talk about how reasonable what you’re saying is.

What I’m saying is perfectly reasonable because I don’t expect to do everything ANet offers. ALL I’m saying is that I can understand the complaints.

Vayne.8563:

The harder you make content the more likely people are going to try to get an advantage by being on a full map.

That’s true only so far as rewards demand that players do that harder content. What’s more likely is that most people will gravitate towards whichever content offers the reward they’re after. If the reward does not entice, the harder content will be ignored for the most part.

Faaris.8013:

btw, taxis are not explained in the game either, they are not kind of the lore.

I only figured out what a taxi is because I asked someone when I read about it in map chat. And then, only after I participated in a gw2community organized Triple Trouble event, I really figured out how the map instances work and how and why people use taxis.

Welcome to the club, as we say in German. We’ve all been in that boat when we started out, and I agree, it is a drag.

Like I said many times before, the game needs a solid tutorial, GW2 Wiki etc. just doesn’t do. It is too much for any beginner and many feel overwhelmed by the sheer amount of stuff they need to google in order to understand all the game mechanics.

Faaris.8013:

Now, I don’t even need an LFG to get to a good map instance because I can guess who will command and just /sqjoin. I’m pretty sure there are casual players who played for a year or more and have no clue how map instances and taxis work.

Well, you can’t always rely on specific people being online when you are. It will force you to only do events at given times, which is a shame as there are constantly event squads outside of gw2community.

Djinn.9245:

phys.7689:

mastery points in HoT are not that bad, mastery points in tyria are kinda bare. In hot they seem to have more extra points, and they have masteries that are not that important, so you can skip, unless you are a completionist, in which case you d be trying to do everything anyway

but the thing im unsure of, if you hate hot, why do you need mastery points? They are for HoT content. They give you access to more of hot, and make exploring hot easier.

while i think mastery system needs tweaks and improvements, its actually over all, a really logical system. it rewards people who like to do the content with more access and depth to the content.

???

All of the HoT Masteries are also required in the maps AFTER HoT: Bloodstone Fen, Ember Bay, Bitterfrost, Lake Doric, Draconis Mons.

This is factually untrue. Nuhoch wallows, the poison resistence, the see stealthed creatures, only work in HOT zones.

You need all the gliding and you need jumping mushrooms. Beyond that, I can’t think of anything you need from a HoT zone.

There are five groupings of HOT masteries, including raids. You don’t need raid masteries at all, or exalted masteries at all. You don’t need Nuhoch masteries at all.

There are 169 points of HoT masteries not including the stuff from Ancient magics, which is the new zones. You need 36 points of those.

Ashantara.8731:

Well, you can’t always rely on specific people being online when you are. It will force you to only do events at given times, which is a shame as there are constantly event squads outside of gw2community.

Nah, I don’t mean gw2community events, I join them in Team Speak anyway. But some players have a rhythm of doing events/metas, they show up every day at the same time.

IndigoSundown.5419:

Vayne.8563:

Okay let’s talk about how reasonable what you’re saying is.

What I’m saying is perfectly reasonable because I don’t expect to do everything ANet offers. ALL I’m saying is that I can understand the complaints.

Vayne.8563:

The harder you make content the more likely people are going to try to get an advantage by being on a full map.

That’s true only so far as rewards demand that players do that harder content. What’s more likely is that most people will gravitate towards whichever content offers the reward they’re after. If the reward does not entice, the harder content will be ignored for the most part.

Well, that’s true to a point. I don’t think the reward of TD is particularly great, but it gets done all the time. I do it because I find it fun. And while it’s true Dragon Stand has decent rewards, I run Dragon Stand for fun too.

There are plenty of people who play for only rewards. There are also plenty of people who play for fun though.

And even if the world boss train was more rewarding the the TD meta, I wouldn’t find it as much fun.

The problem with mastery points is that a lot of the ways to get them, a lot of people find unfun, like adventures. I tend to like a lot of the adventures, except that living in Australia adds an extra layer of difficulty to most of them, for which I’m not compensated at all.

There are adventures I know I could probably get gold on if I did them from the states, that I will never get gold in.

Djinn.9245:

phys.7689:

mastery points in HoT are not that bad, mastery points in tyria are kinda bare. In hot they seem to have more extra points, and they have masteries that are not that important, so you can skip, unless you are a completionist, in which case you d be trying to do everything anyway

but the thing im unsure of, if you hate hot, why do you need mastery points? They are for HoT content. They give you access to more of hot, and make exploring hot easier.

while i think mastery system needs tweaks and improvements, its actually over all, a really logical system. it rewards people who like to do the content with more access and depth to the content.

???

All of the HoT Masteries are also required in the maps AFTER HoT: Bloodstone Fen, Ember Bay, Bitterfrost, Lake Doric, Draconis Mons.

those are actually HoT maps, they give mastery points which can be used for any HoT mastery line. Im not sure, can non HoT players even access them?

regardless, they give hot mastery points, which you can use to unlock wallows,

I counted 34 mastery points available in the new content, 17 are required for ancient magic
that leaves 17 mastery points to use to pick up things you may have wanted from Hot

nuhock wallows needs 3 points
bouncing mushrooms needs 1

so basically you can get most of what you need to traverse those maps, by playing those maps.
But like i said, these maps are an extension of HoT anyhow, much like season 2 ls missions are extensions of core, and give core mastery points.

Vayne.8563:

There are plenty of people who play for only rewards. There are also plenty of people who play for fun though.

And then there are people who have fun getting rewards.

Faaris.8013:

Vayne.8563:

There are plenty of people who play for only rewards. There are also plenty of people who play for fun though.

And then there are people who have fun getting rewards.

Playing for rewards, doesn’t mean you have fun doing the content that gives the rewards. They’re seperate issues. I may have fun getting legendary armor, but I can’t stand raiding so it won’t happen. If I played for rewards, but didn’t like raiding, I suddenly wouldn’t like raiding.

Rewards aren’t content. People may very well like getting rewards. But the issue of whether they like what they have to do is a real one.

In truth is is really the problem with mastery points. Most people want mastery points but not everyone likes the content you have to do enough to get those mastery points. If those players force themselves to do that content, they’re not going to be having fun, even though the got the reward.

Vayne.8563:

In truth is is really the problem with mastery points. Most people want mastery points but not everyone likes the content you have to do enough to get those mastery points. If those players force themselves to do that content, they’re not going to be having fun, even though the got the reward.

This is my biggest issue with the Game. I can’t stand the mini games or jumping puzzles (others love them good for them) but they need to give everyone no matter their game play style the option to earn max Masteries. By max I mean to be able to completely fill all bars to the max.

Thanks

I would like anet to scrap all the things they use HoT masteries for, and make them achieves for those who are completionists, and just make it a straight-line approach to xp leveling.

Vayne.8563:

Faaris.8013:

Vayne.8563:

There are plenty of people who play for only rewards. There are also plenty of people who play for fun though.

And then there are people who have fun getting rewards.

Playing for rewards, doesn’t mean you have fun doing the content that gives the rewards. They’re seperate issues. I may have fun getting legendary armor, but I can’t stand raiding so it won’t happen. If I played for rewards, but didn’t like raiding, I suddenly wouldn’t like raiding.

Rewards aren’t content. People may very well like getting rewards. But the issue of whether they like what they have to do is a real one.

In truth is is really the problem with mastery points. Most people want mastery points but not everyone likes the content you have to do enough to get those mastery points. If those players force themselves to do that content, they’re not going to be having fun, even though the got the reward.

The majority wh play mmorpgs understand rpgs in general and enjoy having to do content to.get rewards of you want instant gratification for no work.then you should not be playing any rpg. And stop trying to push your agenda here to make it sound like so many think like you who play mmorpgs.

slashlizardy.9167:

I would like anet to scrap all the things they use HoT masteries for, and make them achieves for those who are completionists, and just make it a straight-line approach to xp leveling.

Then you d have an incentive system for exploration, that rewards you for staying at the most exp profitable event in whatever expansion its tied to.

Some times design isnt so much about X being awesome, its about Y leading to degenerative play.

I do think mastery can be tweaked, perhaps by better placing mastery abilities that you need for progress, or perhaps less lines, or let you select which mastery per line.

but an exp bar alone isnt a good way to incentivize a new area. Keep in mind gw2 doesnt have a lot of more powerful gear/special gear buffs, etc, which are the type of things games usually use to get you to go into various areas.

His agenda? I don’t think it’s some wild idea that some people do content that don’t enjoy to get a reward, and getting the reward doesn’t magically make them like the content. Nor a wild idea that some people abstain from content they don’t like, regardless of the reward.

If I don’t enjoy the content in a game I’m playing for entertainment/enjoyment, why would I do said content? It would have to be a pretty grand collection of pixels to make me do something I really didn’t like.

Vayne.8563:

You don’t understand my argument at all. I bring two people with me if I want to be serious. If people can’t find two friends in an MMO I’m not sure what to tell them.

That said, no, there’s far far far more than three people in a zone. I can’t ever remember a time when there weren’t enough people in a zone to do content, even without LFG except when a new build is out and I don’t reset.

Even if I get on a new map it’s not long before other people are on that new map with me.

I clearly don’t because what you just said makes even less sense to me than what you said before. “You bring two people if you want to be serious”? What does that even mean? I just explained to you how some people don’t want to try to do HoT meta events with 3 people. Some of them would be downright brutal to try to do with only 3 people (and I’m talking the pres, the main events themselves obviously need way more).

As for your “there’s far far more,” I outlined an experience in another thread (which I know you at least skimmed over because you replied to it) about an experience where I couldn’t find people for meta events for a specific map, even with LFG, even with creating my own squad, etc.

I brought up a point like that and you told me about timers.

So which is it? Do maps always have enough people or do they just always have enough people when the major part of the map cycle is coming up? There’s a gigantic difference between those two statements. And the second one might be a reasonable point if the maps had NO events happening on them during downtime. But the world bosses are not like meta events. The meta events often happen in some form outside of the major cycle coming up. World bosses just are coming up or they aren’t.

Initial release HoT maps were designed to have events ongoing pretty much all the time; events that tie into the overall scheme of the map and require groups of players to do. And you’re going to tell me (not in this post, but you did in that other thread and have said similar things to others here) that I’m supposed to play the game on a timer, defeating the whole point of dynamic event design because that’s where the population is.

Meanwhile, you’re talking as if the population is just always there, when what you must mean is that it’s there when you’re there for the major part of the map cycle.

What that means is, you don’t get to play how you want. You get to play what’s available on a timer. That’s not dynamic at all and frankly, I couldn’t imagine doing that day in and day out. It would be incredibly boring. “Oh, what’s up next for content to play today. Let me check the timer” ??? Why would that be appealing in a game that sells itself on dynamic design?

I said something years ago in relation to Silverwastes that I will repeat because it’s relevant: I loved Silverwastes (when it was the main attraction, i.e. very active) and it was for a number of reasons, but one of the things I liked about it was that there wasn’t much of a “cooldown” period (even at the end, the “chest” looting period was fairly brief if I recall correctly). If people wanted to do Silverwastes over and over they could and that meant if you’ve just logged in, there’d probably be some people doing it, or ready to do it soon.

Initial release HoT maps instead chose to make most everything as super long events and super long cooldowns. Cool, I guess, if you’re someone who plays 16 hours a day, but if you just want to dink around for an hour or two, it’s horrible. You log in at the wrong time, in the wrong place. Have to commit to, like, hour blocks of time just to participate in a full event. You can’t do what you want half the time because things are on a timer and people like you apparently let the timer lead your gameplay like a compass, so it’s no wonder that population might suffer in off-time; everybody is off following the timer.

Ashantara.8731:

Yes. It is called the LFG (Looking For Group) tool that should always be used to either find an event map or initiate one by taxiing people in.

Djinn.9245:

I see the OP being criticized because he doesn’t know how the DS meta works. Where is it explained in-game?

I absolutely agree with that kind of criticism.

The game, in general, is in no way self-explanatory. The fact that none of the events (especially Dragon’s Stand) is explained, is only one of the many things that cause newbies a severe headache (and understandably so). You do have to ask in order to learn, or else you are lost.

As for the LFG tool, took me a while myself to figure it out (I think it was updated since then to increase its usability).

This is a correct observation, but there’s a problem. Many people playing “mapping games” (games where the map is revealed over time) attract players specifically because of that facet.

And, that kind of player also wants to figure out the “rules” as well. It’s just an extension of the same play style.

So, ANet can’t just explain things. They opted for the solution of the Wiki, instead. So, people do have to look things up, if they either can’t or don’t want to figure them out on their own. And, at the same time, the mappers are satisfied.

So, while I like the wiki method pretty well, there are others who wouldn’t play at all if the instruction manual covered everything as you went along. (Some hard-core mappers don’t even like the tutorial messages.)

Ryou.2398:

Vayne.8563:

Faaris.8013:

Vayne.8563:

There are plenty of people who play for only rewards. There are also plenty of people who play for fun though.

And then there are people who have fun getting rewards.

Playing for rewards, doesn’t mean you have fun doing the content that gives the rewards. They’re seperate issues. I may have fun getting legendary armor, but I can’t stand raiding so it won’t happen. If I played for rewards, but didn’t like raiding, I suddenly wouldn’t like raiding.

Rewards aren’t content. People may very well like getting rewards. But the issue of whether they like what they have to do is a real one.

In truth is is really the problem with mastery points. Most people want mastery points but not everyone likes the content you have to do enough to get those mastery points. If those players force themselves to do that content, they’re not going to be having fun, even though the got the reward.

The majority who.plsy.mmorpgs understand rpgs in general.and enjoy having to do content to.get rewards of you want instant gratification for no work.then you should not be playing any rpg. And stop trying to push your agenda here to make it sound like so many think like you who play mmorpgs.

Nope don’t agree and I’ve been playing RPGs for years. I simply enjoy what I’m doing to get rewards in RPGs. And the second I stop enjoying them I lose interest in the game.

Some things are fun and some things aren’t. I’ve beaten every tombraider game, because I like that kind of gameplay, except for the last one because they introduced something in the game I don’t like.

Games are games, they’re not meant to be work. And work isn’t necessary the same as effort. I can work out in a gym if I enjoy working out. It’s still effort and I’m still enjoying it. I wouldn’t eat food that I hate every single day to get a free meal of food I like thoiugh.

Those who play RPGs? I’m relatively sure I’ve played more RPGs than most people, over a much longer span of time.

Lite Ning Strike.5203:

Vayne.8563:

In truth is is really the problem with mastery points. Most people want mastery points but not everyone likes the content you have to do enough to get those mastery points. If those players force themselves to do that content, they’re not going to be having fun, even though the got the reward.

This is my biggest issue with the Game. I can’t stand the mini games or jumping puzzles (others love them good for them) but they need to give everyone no matter their game play style the option to earn max Masteries. By max I mean to be able to completely fill all bars to the max.

Thanks

I agree that adventures should never have had mastery points locked behind them. However the occasional mastery point for a hard jumping puzzle would be okay as long as it was extraneous. That is there should be enough easier ways to get mastery points without playing arcade games.

Vayne.8563:

Ryou.2398:

Vayne.8563:

Faaris.8013:

Vayne.8563:

There are plenty of people who play for only rewards. There are also plenty of people who play for fun though.

And then there are people who have fun getting rewards.

Playing for rewards, doesn’t mean you have fun doing the content that gives the rewards. They’re seperate issues. I may have fun getting legendary armor, but I can’t stand raiding so it won’t happen. If I played for rewards, but didn’t like raiding, I suddenly wouldn’t like raiding.

Rewards aren’t content. People may very well like getting rewards. But the issue of whether they like what they have to do is a real one.

In truth is is really the problem with mastery points. Most people want mastery points but not everyone likes the content you have to do enough to get those mastery points. If those players force themselves to do that content, they’re not going to be having fun, even though the got the reward.

The majority who.plsy.mmorpgs understand rpgs in general.and enjoy having to do content to.get rewards of you want instant gratification for no work.then you should not be playing any rpg. And stop trying to push your agenda here to make it sound like so many think like you who play mmorpgs.

Nope don’t agree and I’ve been playing RPGs for years. I simply enjoy what I’m doing to get rewards in RPGs. And the second I stop enjoying them I lose interest in the game.

Some things are fun and some things aren’t. I’ve beaten every tombraider game, because I like that kind of gameplay, except for the last one because they introduced something in the game I don’t like.

Games are games, they’re not meant to be work. And work isn’t necessary the same as effort. I can work out in a gym if I enjoy working out. It’s still effort and I’m still enjoying it. I wouldn’t eat food that I hate every single day to get a free meal of food I like thoiugh.

Those who play RPGs? I’m relatively sure I’ve played more RPGs than most people, over a much longer span of time.

To say they are not work makes no sense even old school games where work all rpgs are more work then other games.

Ryou.2398:

Vayne.8563:

Nope don’t agree and I’ve been playing RPGs for years. I simply enjoy what I’m doing to get rewards in RPGs. And the second I stop enjoying them I lose interest in the game.

Some things are fun and some things aren’t. I’ve beaten every tombraider game, because I like that kind of gameplay, except for the last one because they introduced something in the game I don’t like.

Games are games, they’re not meant to be work. And work isn’t necessary the same as effort. I can work out in a gym if I enjoy working out. It’s still effort and I’m still enjoying it. I wouldn’t eat food that I hate every single day to get a free meal of food I like thoiugh.

Those who play RPGs? I’m relatively sure I’ve played more RPGs than most people, over a much longer span of time.

To say they are not work makes no sense even old school games where work all rpgs are more work then other games.

You’re arguing semantics, to no real point. The word work has several definitions. You’re referring to the one that would read, “Activity involving mental or physical effort done in order to achieve a purpose or result.” Vayne seems to be equating the word with a common view of work in a lot of cultures. Work is something you have to do to earn a living, whether it’s distasteful or not. He wants to use the word “effort” instead, but effort is synonymous with work.

I suggest though, that since RPG’s are Role-Playing GAMES, the proper word would be play, not work. RPG’s may require more play than other games. MMORPG’s certainly do, largely because of their business models and the expectations of the MMO fan base.

IndigoSundown.5419:

Ryou.2398:

Vayne.8563:

Nope don’t agree and I’ve been playing RPGs for years. I simply enjoy what I’m doing to get rewards in RPGs. And the second I stop enjoying them I lose interest in the game.

Some things are fun and some things aren’t. I’ve beaten every tombraider game, because I like that kind of gameplay, except for the last one because they introduced something in the game I don’t like.

Games are games, they’re not meant to be work. And work isn’t necessary the same as effort. I can work out in a gym if I enjoy working out. It’s still effort and I’m still enjoying it. I wouldn’t eat food that I hate every single day to get a free meal of food I like thoiugh.

Those who play RPGs? I’m relatively sure I’ve played more RPGs than most people, over a much longer span of time.

To say they are not work makes no sense even old school games where work all rpgs are more work then other games.

You’re arguing semantics, to no real point. The word work has several definitions. You’re referring to the one that would read, “Activity involving mental or physical effort done in order to achieve a purpose or result.” Vayne seems to be equating the word with a common view of work in a lot of cultures. Work is something you have to do to earn a living, whether it’s distasteful or not. He wants to use the word “effort” instead, but effort is synonymous with work.

I suggest though, that since RPG’s are Role-Playing GAMES, the proper word would be play, not work. RPG’s may require more play than other games. MMORPG’s certainly do, largely because of their business models and the expectations of the MMO fan base.

This exactly. Play is not work to me. If I kill a bunch of stuff in a game, and I’m having fun while doing it, I’m not working. I’m playing.

If I have to click f 1000 times in a row to level, that’s work because it’s not fun.

It all boils down to that the effort is real, while the rewards are virtual pixels. There is less effort I am willing to expend on a virtual reward, unless it is both fun and entertaining, if I can lose myself in the moment, all the better.

IndigoSundown.5419:

Ryou.2398:

Vayne.8563:

Nope don’t agree and I’ve been playing RPGs for years. I simply enjoy what I’m doing to get rewards in RPGs. And the second I stop enjoying them I lose interest in the game.

Some things are fun and some things aren’t. I’ve beaten every tombraider game, because I like that kind of gameplay, except for the last one because they introduced something in the game I don’t like.

Games are games, they’re not meant to be work. And work isn’t necessary the same as effort. I can work out in a gym if I enjoy working out. It’s still effort and I’m still enjoying it. I wouldn’t eat food that I hate every single day to get a free meal of food I like thoiugh.

Those who play RPGs? I’m relatively sure I’ve played more RPGs than most people, over a much longer span of time.

To say they are not work makes no sense even old school games where work all rpgs are more work then other games.

You’re arguing semantics, to no real point. The word work has several definitions. You’re referring to the one that would read, “Activity involving mental or physical effort done in order to achieve a purpose or result.” Vayne seems to be equating the word with a common view of work in a lot of cultures. Work is something you have to do to earn a living, whether it’s distasteful or not. He wants to use the word “effort” instead, but effort is synonymous with work.

I suggest though, that since RPG’s are Role-Playing GAMES, the proper word would be play, not work. RPG’s may require more play than other games. MMORPG’s certainly do, largely because of their business models and the expectations of the MMO fan base.

Then your proving my point that it is your perspective that is making it work. All.games can be considered work for reward, especially rpgs. In other words it is subjective it does not mean hot is actually making most feel like it is work.

Ryou.2398:

IndigoSundown.5419:

Ryou.2398:

Vayne.8563:

Nope don’t agree and I’ve been playing RPGs for years. I simply enjoy what I’m doing to get rewards in RPGs. And the second I stop enjoying them I lose interest in the game.

Some things are fun and some things aren’t. I’ve beaten every tombraider game, because I like that kind of gameplay, except for the last one because they introduced something in the game I don’t like.

Games are games, they’re not meant to be work. And work isn’t necessary the same as effort. I can work out in a gym if I enjoy working out. It’s still effort and I’m still enjoying it. I wouldn’t eat food that I hate every single day to get a free meal of food I like thoiugh.

Those who play RPGs? I’m relatively sure I’ve played more RPGs than most people, over a much longer span of time.

To say they are not work makes no sense even old school games where work all rpgs are more work then other games.

You’re arguing semantics, to no real point. The word work has several definitions. You’re referring to the one that would read, “Activity involving mental or physical effort done in order to achieve a purpose or result.” Vayne seems to be equating the word with a common view of work in a lot of cultures. Work is something you have to do to earn a living, whether it’s distasteful or not. He wants to use the word “effort” instead, but effort is synonymous with work.

I suggest though, that since RPG’s are Role-Playing GAMES, the proper word would be play, not work. RPG’s may require more play than other games. MMORPG’s certainly do, largely because of their business models and the expectations of the MMO fan base.

Then your proving my point that it is your perspective that is making it work. All.games can be considered work for reward, especially rpgs. In other words it is subjective it does not mean hot is actually making most feel like it is work.

The issue of whether HoT is fun or not was always going to be subjective. If that was your point all along, you might want to review your assumptions and what you’re saying in various posts. To say, “To say they are not work makes no sense even old school games where work all rpgs are more work then other games.” suggests that you are championing the idea that HoT and by extension all RPG’s are tedious slogs that are not fun to engage with. I’m glad you cleared that up with your latest post.

Vayne.8563:

I agree that adventures should never have had mastery points locked behind them. However the occasional mastery point for a hard jumping puzzle would be okay as long as it was extraneous. That is there should be enough easier ways to get mastery points without playing arcade games.

Wow! A historic day: I agree with Vayne!

Seriously, this is very true. Arcade games are interesting, but the mastery system should be about mastering GW2, not mastering Donkey Kong knockoffs. I think it’s OK that they put some masteries behind them, but there are far too many. And, there aren’t enough other ones. One is effectively forced to master some arcade games in order to earn a mastery — a GW2 mastery.

To be honest, I don’t really understand everybody complaining about masteries being locked behind certain activities. You bought Heart of Thorns knowing that it would be this way, so if you don’t like doing adventures / jumping puzzles / whatever else, you should either have accepted and consented that you won’t have every mastery unlocked, or shouldn’t have purchased the expansion at all. And in case you didn’t actually read through what kind of features will HoT have, then, well…

• Official mastery feature description
• The first reveal of the mastery system

Notice that this latter article (which is referenced at the bottom of the official feature description) was created in February 2015, more than half a year before the release of HoT.
Quoting from the article (highlighting done by me):

‘To train a specific Mastery track, you must first unlock it by spending Mastery points. Mastery points are awarded for completing various pieces of game content. Things like completing a chapter in your personal story, completing certain achievements, reaching hard-to-find locations, overcoming challenging encounters, excelling at adventures found within the Heart of Maguuma, or earning 100% completion for a map will award Mastery points. Each Mastery point can be earned once per account, so while Mastery points allow you to unlock Mastery tracks, they are also an indicator of how much of the game you’ve experienced.’

Yes, but there should have been an onerous amount of Mastery Points so you can get them however u wanted, if they were going to introducte MP’s, otherwise just make it a straight xp thing.

Niriel.5490:

they are also an indicator of how much of the game you’ve experienced

I quoted this part specifically to show that it doesn’t make sense for people to be able to unlock all masteries from doing only a single aspect of the game.

Niriel.5490:

Niriel.5490:

they are also an indicator of how much of the game you’ve experienced

I quoted this part specifically to show that it doesn’t make sense for people to be able to unlock all masteries from doing only a single aspect of the game.

Just like you can keep earning AP’s, you could’ve just keep earning MP’s, even though you have all the tracks completed., but they poorly chose not to go that route.

Niriel.5490:

Niriel.5490:

they are also an indicator of how much of the game you’ve experienced

I quoted this part specifically to show that it doesn’t make sense for people to be able to unlock all masteries from doing only a single aspect of the game.

Besides, who looks at other peoples toons to compare themself too. I know I dont, I’m only interested in what I have accomplished.

slashlizardy.9167:

Just like you can keep earning AP’s, you could’ve just keep earning MP’s, even though you have all the tracks completed., but they poorly chose not to go that route.

You can do just that, I’d hazard a guess that there’s a good 40 additional mastery points available than what is necessary to unlock all maguuma masteries (not counting raid masteries and the mastery points rewarded for completing raid achievements) – though I can’t confirm the exact number right now. Besides, there aren’t any achievements that can be repeated for AP infinitely, although a few allow multiple completions (e.g. Agent of Entropy), even AP gained from daily achievements have a limit.

To your next post: ‘I don’t do it so others surely don’t do it either’ is a hugely mistaken way of thinking.

slashlizardy.9167:

Niriel.5490:

Niriel.5490:

they are also an indicator of how much of the game you’ve experienced

I quoted this part specifically to show that it doesn’t make sense for people to be able to unlock all masteries from doing only a single aspect of the game.

Besides, who looks at other peoples toons to compare themself too. I know I dont, I’m only interested in what I have accomplished.

its not about comparing oneself to others, its about having incentives for achieving milestones in the expansion.

why should you get every ability from hot, without achieving a lot of HoT goals?

lets be clear here, if you just want to ecperience hot, you dont need every mastery, hate adventures? dont get adrenal mushrooms, itzel leadership, exalted purification, exalted gathering, nuhoch alchemy, which adds up to about 75 points.

since they have a total of 190 and they only use 137, you really dont have to do a large portion of them, unless you just like completing everything, in which case, why are you upset?

Niriel.5490:

hugely mistaken way of thinking.

No personal attacks are needed in the forums

phys.7689:

slashlizardy.9167:

Niriel.5490:

Niriel.5490:

they are also an indicator of how much of the game you’ve experienced

I quoted this part specifically to show that it doesn’t make sense for people to be able to unlock all masteries from doing only a single aspect of the game.

Besides, who looks at other peoples toons to compare themself too. I know I dont, I’m only interested in what I have accomplished.

its not about comparing oneself to others, its about having incentives for achieving milestones in the expansion.

why should you get every ability from hot, without achieving a lot of HoT goals?

lets be clear here, if you just want to ecperience hot, you dont need every mastery, hate adventures? dont get adrenal mushrooms, itzel leadership, exalted purification, exalted gathering, nuhoch alchemy, which adds up to about 75 points.

since they have a total of 190 and they only use 137, you really dont have to do a large portion of them, unless you just like completing everything, in which case, why are you upset?

I’m not upset, I do what I want, when I want, how I want. I’m fine with the 70 MP’s i’ve accumulated and spent. But locking it behind gaining the MP’s to begin with, was the wrong way to earn masteries. That’s all I’m saying…

slashlizardy.9167:

Niriel.5490:

hugely mistaken way of thinking.

No personal attacks are needed in the forums

That was not my intention, I apologize if you perceived it that way. I was trying to point out that different people have different goals, incentives and ways of evaluating themselves or others.

I, for example, am interested in PvE almost exclusively (though I join WvW for a few hours every once in a while), and I think I’ve only ever played “PvP” for the Wintersday snowball stuff achievement. However if they ever introduced masteries unlockable by playing PvP, I would probably have a drive to actually step out of my comfort zone and try it out. Others have stated – even in this thread – that such a thing would make them uncomfortable as they would feel as if they are being forced to play PvP.

Niriel.5490:

slashlizardy.9167:

Niriel.5490:

hugely mistaken way of thinking.

No personal attacks are needed in the forums

That was not my intention, I apologize if you perceived it that way. I was trying to point out that different people have different goals, incentives and ways of evaluating themselves or others.

I, for example, am interested in PvE almost exclusively (though I join WvW for a few hours every once in a while), and I think I’ve only ever played “PvP” for the Wintersday snowball stuff achievement. However if they ever introduced masteries unlockable by playing PvP, I would probably have a drive to actually step out of my comfort zone and try it out. Others have stated – even in this thread – that such a thing would make them uncomfortable as they would feel as if they are being forced to play PvP.

Okay, I get you now. However I am almost exclusively internally focused and if there were masteries that I would be forced to play in pvp, I would simply refuse to do them. I cannot be externally compelled to do something, it’s just not in my nature.

slashlizardy.9167:

Niriel.5490:

slashlizardy.9167:

Niriel.5490:

hugely mistaken way of thinking.

No personal attacks are needed in the forums

That was not my intention, I apologize if you perceived it that way. I was trying to point out that different people have different goals, incentives and ways of evaluating themselves or others.

I, for example, am interested in PvE almost exclusively (though I join WvW for a few hours every once in a while), and I think I’ve only ever played “PvP” for the Wintersday snowball stuff achievement. However if they ever introduced masteries unlockable by playing PvP, I would probably have a drive to actually step out of my comfort zone and try it out. Others have stated – even in this thread – that such a thing would make them uncomfortable as they would feel as if they are being forced to play PvP.

Okay, I get you now. However I am almost exclusively internally focused and if there were masteries that I would be forced to play in pvp, I would simply refuse to do them. I cannot be externally compelled to do something, it’s just not in my nature.

That was exactly my point. As you can see, the conclusion you draw by saying ‘who does it; I don’t’ does not stand.

No I dont see how it’s remotely related….