Guild Wars 2

This JP is hands down the most evil JP in all of GW2. I think Josh took pity on us by putting in checkpoints, because without those, I’d be throwing my laptop out my window. And the worst part of this? You have a Vet Ooze at the end that magically spawns right in front of you and knocks you off.

For all that effort, there needs to be a special title for people who complete this. After I finished, I screamed like a little girl, and cried tears of joy.

I actually really like it. It gives a special SAB Tribulation vibe to it.
It’s one of the puzzles that rely a lot on trial and error and that’s what makes me love it. Makes it feel like a true puzzle, having to figure out how to get to the end of it.
While I’m not against a better reward for it, the joy I had when I finished it was more than enough for me.

Some spots on the sides of rocks are impossible to tell where the safe zones are. Yes he did put in a few tiny ledges that marked where to land, but those were on the obvious pointy rocks. It’s one thing to be hard, but it’s another thing when you can’t even tell where the next jump is going.

And for Tribulation Mode, at least we got good gear at the end that made the tears worth it. That’s why for this, a nice title would have been a perfect reward.

I personally lack the patience for this type of puzzle, but I really appreciate ANet’s willingness to design content like this. It’s clearly a big draw to those who enjoy JPs, even while others consider it a nightmare.

It’s sort of like Tangled Depths. I LOVE that map. It’s my hands-down favorite map in any MMO I’ve ever played. And while I don’t think it would be a good idea to make ALL maps like TD, I feel the game would be diminished by not having maps like it (honorable mention to VB as well!).

So, thank you, ANet. Keep up the good work on designing interesting content for all tastes, not just the mainstream. I know you have to be sure to appeal to the average player, but this game would not be what it is without all the appeals to the fringe as well!

Alex.1957:

…
It’s one of the puzzles that rely a lot on trial and error and that’s what makes me love it. Makes it feel like a true puzzle, having to figure out how to get to the end of it.
…

A puzzle that relies on “Trial and error” is poorly designed.

A good puzzle should be able to be solved by reason and wit, not simple-minded brute force.

It was the single hardest JP I’ve ever done, taking 2 hours before I managed to do it to completion. Whoever made this is probably the guy who made Tribulation Mode in SAB, because this was just as evil. I do think we need a title for completing this, ANET, because few can say they got up to the top. I think a title of Owner of the Chalice would work.

Also, look at dat view of nothingness!

My only gripe is that each checkpoint should give you a buff indicating that you’ve gotten it and not missed one.

Troll’s revenge before gliding was a lot more difficult than this one. It doesn’t have checkpoints so one wrong move back then would ruin your day.

The jumping itself wasn’t so hard, I didn’t really have trouble with it (so much that I’d be fine taking the checkpoints away personally). What I take issue with is how unintuitive it felt. If I didn’t follow a guide, I don’t think I could’ve ever figured where to go. I’d probably have spent hours in there trying to figure it out and given up because it’s just not clear enough.

khani.4786:

My only gripe is that each checkpoint should give you a buff indicating that you’ve gotten it and not missed one.

Most definitely, I was surprised that they didn’t. If I recall right, doesn’t the JP in Silverwastes have a buff telling us which checkpoint we got?

Vincent.7452:

The jumping itself wasn’t so hard, I didn’t really have trouble with it (so much that I’d be fine taking the checkpoints away personally). What I take issue with is how unintuitive it felt. If I didn’t follow a guide, I don’t think I could’ve ever figured where to go. I’d probably have spent hours in there trying to figure it out and given up because it’s just not clear enough.

This too. The JP was seriously hidden, and a lot of the jumps were too. We could probably blame gliding for this since it opens so many more doors for designing a JP.

Difficult jumping puzzle are a thing, but faith jumps with a 10 minute run back if you fail are another.

I finished the jumping puzzle but it stopped being fun at a point.

This is the hardest JP indeed. Took me over 2 hours, and since I was a mesmer I helped out quite many people up with a portal if they were stuck or falled down.
The bad/good thing was the checkpoints. I made it to the top but the chest told me I didn’t get all the checkpoints.
I was literally going to throw a sword all the way to Anet HQ to the guy who created this hell-of JP....!!!!1111
But a person told the reward was crap anyway so meh, atleast I got the achievement, thank godness.

Never, NEVER again.

Smooth Penguin.5294:

This JP is hands down the most evil JP in all of GW2. I think Josh took pity on us by putting in checkpoints, because without those, I’d be throwing my laptop out my window. And the worst part of this? You have a Vet Ooze at the end that magically spawns right in front of you and knocks you off.

For all that effort, there needs to be a special title for people who complete this. After I finished, I screamed like a little girl, and cried tears of joy.

Thanks for the warning – another JP I won’t even be bothering to try. Hopefully nothing important is gated by it.

Djinn.9245:

Smooth Penguin.5294:

This JP is hands down the most evil JP in all of GW2. I think Josh took pity on us by putting in checkpoints, because without those, I’d be throwing my laptop out my window. And the worst part of this? You have a Vet Ooze at the end that magically spawns right in front of you and knocks you off.

For all that effort, there needs to be a special title for people who complete this. After I finished, I screamed like a little girl, and cried tears of joy.

Thanks for the warning – another JP I won’t even be bothering to try. Hopefully nothing important is gated by it.

Unless the patch fixed it, there be mursaat tokens in there.

My only complaint so far about the new map was that the ‘true’ map versus the rendered map does not match very well. It seemed like they where sloppy when making it. What I mean is I can see a rock ledge that is easily within jump range, but I just slide off like there was not really a ledge there even though I could see it.

This puzzle sounds like it’s just the opposite where there are ledges you cannot see. I call total bull kitten on any map like this, especially in a jumping puzzle. Having teeny tiny ropes to walk on that visually give you vertigo, even though the ‘real’ plank your walking on is bigger than what you see is fine, but not even drawing said rope expecting you to guess where it is by trial and error is just wrong.

Having dead ends is fine, or misleading visual clues, but having to use invisible ledges to make it harder seems really lame.

A puzzle that relies on “Trial and error” is poorly designed.

agreed. Any good JP, you should be able to use intelligent reasoning to determine the correct next jump before you make it. If something looks right but turns out to be impossible or auto-kill you, then that’s not good gameplay, it’s just needlessly cruel.

RyuDragnier.9476:

Djinn.9245:

Smooth Penguin.5294:

This JP is hands down the most evil JP in all of GW2. I think Josh took pity on us by putting in checkpoints, because without those, I’d be throwing my laptop out my window. And the worst part of this? You have a Vet Ooze at the end that magically spawns right in front of you and knocks you off.

For all that effort, there needs to be a special title for people who complete this. After I finished, I screamed like a little girl, and cried tears of joy.

Thanks for the warning – another JP I won’t even be bothering to try. Hopefully nothing important is gated by it.

Unless the patch fixed it, there be mursaat tokens in there.

Of course there is – dump on people who find jumping impossible. I feel even more bad for players who have bad internet connections.

And before people talk about JP being easy or I just need to practice, think about this: everyone has things in RL that they find to be easy that other people just can’t do. Directions, throwing straight, dancing, singing, etc. People who are really bad at singing are never going to be great at it no matter how much they practice. Maybe certain things like throwing can get better, but I play this game for relaxation and enjoyment. Falling off the ledge and dying for hours at a time is a waste of my limited gaming time. There are Vistas that I used to just not do in the past because they were too difficult. I have decided to try Legendary crafting so I have to do them now and it is not fun.

For me, Silverwastes is one of the main JPs I judge any new ones against. Some reasoning to work out where to go without having to be signposted, beautiful to explore, difficulty not too high, an exclusive skin as a chance to drop and because the difficulty was just right, it made repeat attempts worthwhile to get the pick ups. Oh and most of all, it was fun – that bit that for me overrides all else.

This felt more like making the difficulty annoying just for the sake of it. When I listened to Josh’s comments on the preview blog, it sounded like a really fun, well thought out and designed JP. For me, those comments didn’t translate to the reality of what was released and it just wasn’t fun.

I think Kurfu summed it up best though

Alga.6498:

This is the hardest JP indeed. Took me over 2 hours, and since I was a mesmer I helped out quite many people up with a portal if they were stuck or falled down.
The bad/good thing was the checkpoints. I made it to the top but the chest told me I didn’t get all the checkpoints.
I was literally going to throw a sword all the way to Anet HQ to the guy who created this hell-of JP….!!!!1111
But a person told the reward was crap anyway so meh, atleast I got the achievement, thank godness.

Never, NEVER again.

Unfortunately they changed it late last night in a ninja patch they told nobody about. I guess the intention was to prevent people from porting others to the top (which you can do with other JP’s, but whatever). But that also means that anyone else who accidentally misses a checkpoint is screwed and won’t get anything, not even the achieve and mastery point.

The puzzle is not my friend because of the lava graphics and general animations. Those who have seen some of my posts before may know I’m epileptic, specifically photo-sensitive epileptic. This means light frequencies are something that, under certain circumstances, I’m going to be a tad bothered by. Annoyingly, this is one of those times (although I’ve done fine with the rest of the episode, so long as I don’t have ley-lines in front of flamey stuff too long when gliding about), and there’s no way I can do the puzzle as a result. I tried going into the place and nearly wigged out completely!

Ordinarily I don’t worry about this stuff, but when masteries and other collection items - Mursaat tokens in this case - are involved, I begin to feel conspired against (because, you know, this game is all about me). I was lucky in that I did a teleport-to-friend to a kind soul parked on the chest last night, so I did get the mastery. And I don’t think I’d ask Anet to stop doing puzzles like this at all (because so many people do find it fun), but please don’t do what some others elsewhere have wanted and take away things like Teleport-to-friends or portals in these rather dangerous environments! People like me sometimes rely on these to complete our wants/needs/whatevers!

I should also say me and my awesome hubby are working on ways to get those four mursaat tokens in the puzzle - he’s actually done the puzzle himself the hard way and picked up all the tokens, so I’m sure I’ll get them eventually with his help.

EDIT: Have just read the post above, posted whilst I was writing mine. They took away the ability to port to the end? As I’ve said here, I’d never be able to do this puzzle without this mechanism. I appreciate that PSE isn’t an everyday disability, but there are others who are disabled who could be very set back by not being allowed to port. If this is really the case, I ask Anet to thoughtfully reconsider that not everyone can take part in this sort of content, and thus you should add more disabled-friendly ways of acquiring masteries. Or simply don’t add a mastery at the end of a hardcore puzzle, but a title, extra-special loots, or whatever.

I’m just glad I know this now, I despise jumping puzzles. I don’t care if they are in the game as others like them and to each your own, but if Mursaat tokens are there, I’m going to quit collecting the others ones now and not waste my time because I’ll never see them all. If a mastery is up there, its going to have to stay up there as without porting and having “checkpoints” to achieve, it will be like the winter’s day one and all the other jumping puzzles in the game to me..never done. That kind of aggravation is not something I want to go through for anything. At least now I know to stop trying to find Mursaat tokens all over the new area as for me, it will be a waste of time to even go looking for them if the rest are on top of this “thing”.

Ceridwen.6703:

The puzzle is not my friend because of the lava graphics and general animations. Those who have seen some of my posts before may know I’m epileptic, specifically photo-sensitive epileptic. This means light frequencies are something that, under certain circumstances, I’m going to be a tad bothered by. Annoyingly, this is one of those times (although I’ve done fine with the rest of the episode, so long as I don’t have ley-lines in front of flamey stuff too long when gliding about), and there’s no way I can do the puzzle as a result. I tried going into the place and nearly wigged out completely!

Ordinarily I don’t worry about this stuff, but when masteries and other collection items – Mursaat tokens in this case – are involved, I begin to feel conspired against (because, you know, this game is all about me). I was lucky in that I did a teleport-to-friend to a kind soul parked on the chest last night, so I did get the mastery. And I don’t think I’d ask Anet to stop doing puzzles like this at all (because so many people do find it fun), but please don’t do what some others elsewhere have wanted and take away things like Teleport-to-friends or portals in these rather dangerous environments! People like me sometimes rely on these to complete our wants/needs/whatevers!

I should also say me and my awesome hubby are working on ways to get those four mursaat tokens in the puzzle – he’s actually done the puzzle himself the hard way and picked up all the tokens, so I’m sure I’ll get them eventually with his help.

EDIT: Have just read the post above, posted whilst I was writing mine. They took away the ability to port to the end? As I’ve said here, I’d never be able to do this puzzle without this mechanism. I appreciate that PSE isn’t an everyday disability, but there are others who are disabled who could be very set back by not being allowed to port. If this is really the case, I ask Anet to thoughtfully reconsider that not everyone can take part in this sort of content, and thus you should add more disabled-friendly ways of acquiring masteries. Or simply don’t add a mastery at the end of a hardcore puzzle, but a title, extra-special loots, or whatever.

yeah they did. i want a tp to f back, since i wasted it, or them to fix the credit.

i can’t for the life of me do jumping puzzles, i lack the coordination. i play for the story. give me a logic puzzle any day, and i’ll be all over it….jumping puzzles…with medium level graphics, and a somewhat sketchy glide/jump problem, (could be keyboard, could be me, not sure at this point), forgot it.

i get that some people love them, and i did have fun with the skirt one if sw, more of a journey with less jumping involved, and i happily paid the 1g to go back to a check point i fell from. that doesn’t seem to be an option here. i don’t care about the chest, or a title, i just want to be able to get the achievement for the meta without pulling my hair out.

this map feels….a little off. with things not lining up like someone else said. i was having one heck of a time getting around and wondering why i couldn’t jump on things or over them.

The issue I have with this is how hard it is to tell how where to go. At most points in the puzzle, there are 4 or 5 obvious places, and if you go to the wrong one you have to start over, but usually the place to actually go is the visually-indistinguishable-from-a-wall-you-can’t-land-on rock that you don’t even give a second look. It’s almost impossible to make any progress without getting lucky.

It’d be pure evil if it didn’t have checkpoints. As it is, it’s annoying, not evil.

I think if they made more rock edges than using invisible safe zones on near-vertical rock faces, then we could actually figure out where we need to leap next. I don’t want him to guide us through the whole puzzle, but at the same time, I don’t want blind leaps either.

This JP is definitely evil. Frankly I wouldn’t have even bothered if it wasn’t gating mastery points that I need. Right now I’m so angry that I want to hurt someone. This is not my idea of fun, there is a fine line between a challenge and masochism, and this JP is no where near challenge on that line it’s far into masochism territory. As far as I’m concerned I’m never going back to this JP.

While I’m grateful for the checkpoints, it’s still not quite right. For one, the checkpoints have no way of knowing they even exist but dying or knowing about the steam thing, it should be indicated that they even exist for one. Also should be a counter somewhere showing the max number so people know if they’re missing any.

The reason I’m infuriated right now and come to the forums raging and being a jerk though is because of pure, raw, bad design: I’ve gotten nothing accomplished today was hoping to kick back on GW2 and get this mastery point tonight, so much for that being relaxing. Right now I want to throw my computer out the window and smash it with a hammer.

The thing is, it’s not the JP itself making me angry, it’s the design flaws: I’ve spent the last 8 hours on this JP, and you ask, why would that take 8 hours instead of like 3? Well let me tell you:

First off, I almost got to the end, until I got stuck in geometry. Since anet has decided to not allow the suicide command to be used anywhere but a raid, this means I couldn’t kill myself to reset to checkpoint. This threw an entire 4 hours into the trash can.

What threw the other 4? Well the other 4 are when I got half way up the final spire, to fall off and not have the checkpoint rez me so I had to waypoint out.

I’ve played this game since release, and have never once been so infuriated at this game. Needless to say I’m not sure I ever want to attempt any new JPs if they all end up being like this, I sure hope not.

Also am I salty and ragey? Yes I absolutely am. I should have had this finished 12 times in the time this took just to get bugged out multiple times.

Also I’d like to add, like others have said: Super poor form putting the tokens for the other achievement in there. This is like SAB tribulation mode levels of evil and you put small parts of a meta achievement in there? That ain’t right man :p At least the meta doesn’t require every single achievement this time though

I think the main problem with this JP is that you have no idea where to go half the time. You can stand on edges and slopes that are not obvious that you could stand on. And yet you fall on other surfaces that look like you should be able to stand on.

I wouldn’t say this puzzle was evil, but it is tediously annoying, I love doing jumping puzzles, the one they put in SW was fantastic, the new one in the fractals is fun to, this one in EB is just annoying, glide over, oh you cant actually land there even though it looks like you can, unlucky, you now burn to death and respawn at the check point, to go again,

There doesn’t seem to be a path to this puzzle, like others have said its more about jumping and hoping you glide to somewhere you can continue from or start over, the fact that at some points you have to jump out and glide blindly around the corner and hope you land in the correct spot, no thanks, I think by trying to make it harder or longer than normal puzzles they took the fun out of it, I cannot see people ( someone will say they will but they wont ) running this puzzle again after getting the achievement, they may re-enter for the tokens that are hidden in it, but it will not be for fun that’s for sure,

So yes, I feel they overdid it on this occasion, they should have kept it a little more simple and fun, long sure, but fun, what you produced in EB is not fun sorry.

I think the location was cool, finding the path was kinda difficult without a mesmer though. The only thing that really bothered me is that I helped a whole group go from start to finish but one guy somehow missed a checkpoint and once we got to the end he didn’t get the achievement nor could he open the chest. Worst part was that there was no way to check which one he missed and whether he’d have to pop them in order again. End result was him being frustrated and giving up, which is a shame cause it was fun while we climbed up.

someone suggested a title, i recommend that title be masochist

There are three major problems I see with the JP:
1. Geometric Disconnect – What you see is not what you get. There are visible ledges that punt you off, and slopes that don’t. People keep comparing this to SAB tribulation mode – but from what I’ve seen of that (I ran all of world 1 tribulation mode, but world 2’s length put me off), at least SAB has clean jumps (Aside from “GOTCHA” traps) – Every point you can stand on is flat, and jumps that require awkward positioning have a bevel indicating such. To get through Chalice of Tears, you have to use map-breaking jump techniques.

2. Mandatory checkpoints. The respawn at checkpoints is a godsend, but when the puzzle-as-designed requires map-breaking jumping techniques to proceed, some players end up finding unintentional paths that bypass checkpoints. As far as I can tell, the top is beyond Mesmer portal range anyway – anyone who gets to the top by any means should earn the reward.

3. Points of No Return – They come in two types: “Stuck and need to WP out”, and “Fell off at the very end, landed outside the JP area, and need to restart.”

I spent at least 4 hours in there today and I couldn’t complete it. I made it to the 4th check point but there are a couple of jumps that are so tight in clicking speed to get just enough height that I just fall short each time. It’s the part where you have to climb up those two spires to get to the high point to make that big jump to the last part. I haven’t been able to make it onto the first spire of the two so far and it’s frankly discouraging by now.

Now I am someone with fear of heights and I know that because of that fact my reaction times can just be a bit off as I have to fend off adrenaline surges and anxiety spikes that come with that but this part of the puzzle is totally unforgiving for that.

I’ve always tried to challenge myself and I’ve actually completed almost every jumping puzzle in the game so far without help (2-3 missing that I haven’t tried yet), but this one….I just don’t know if I will be able to manage it.

I’ll give it another go tomorrow perhaps but I’m not hopeful.

It just sucks that I get stuck on two jumps – the one to get on the ledge from where to jump to the first spire. It’s a two part jump and I usually miss the second part because I am just too low and then when I finally do get onto the ledge after 10 attempts, I fail the jump to get onto the first spire. All by a hair each time. It’s like I just can’t click the jump button fast enough to get that tiny bit of extra height. Meh.

I don’t mind if there are JP that I can’t do. If people enjoy them, that’s great. But I don’t understand why Anet would make a JP that even they say is the hardest in the game and then gate Tokens behind it.

Yeah, that’s the problem. If they have a JP that’s crazy hard, that’s fine, but they should only gate ONE standard achievement behind it and ONE basic chest at the end, nothing else. If they’re going to tie it to several achievements and rewards tehn it needs to be accessible to everyone in some fashion.

The entire mess is nothing but finding the glitch path, blind gliding to spots that are indistinguishable from instant fall spots, and praying you don’t run into any instant slide locations while you try to land on 5 pixel wide landing locations. Half the time the only way to know where to go is to be psychic, because not only are the locations small and hard to find, but you can’t even see many of them before you start gliding toward them.

This is hands down the worst experience I have ever had in any game, and if there hadn’t been helpful and friendly players around, it probably would have driven me to stop playing the game in frustration, if this is ANets idea of good design. I did quit the puzzle in frustration, after 3 hours of no one on the entire map even being able to make it to the second checkpoint. Again, after 3 hours of trying, no one on the entire map, with over 50 payers trying, could get to the second checkpoint.

It is more than evil so much so it is joke. Make a JP like this is fine for those that want to torture themselves. BUT NO WAY SHOULD ANY tokens/collections ect be a part of it. Have a separate RNG reward. As soon as I saw the pre-release vid I knew that it would be something that I would want nothing to do with and after many failed attempts I quit an will never try it again. Hard is one thing but poor design and implementation is quite another. 2 thumbs down.

Honestly, what’s the point of a JP that doesn’t conform to visible geometry? Is Anet going to start making the world so you never know whether what you see is the actual geometry?

Leaping / flying world where you never know what is solid? Sounds great! /sarcasm

Video of someone doing the new JP in less than 7 minutes.

I did the JP on the day of release, with a combination of Mesmer portals and TPTFs…got the achievement, not the chest, and was so happy to be done with that forever. Then I realized that all of the Mursaat tokens I still need are inside the JP. That’s an achievement I’ll never finish now. I’m not going to subject myself to this kind of torture.

Taking nothing away from that person’s accomplishments, but she could have completed the JP in half the time if not for all those random “maybe a ledge, probably not” bunny hops. That’s just poor architecture design when you need to land on specific invisible pizels if you want to stick, otherwise you slide. You should be able to see before you leap which edges are platforms and which are not.

RyuDragnier.9476:

Djinn.9245:

Thanks for the warning – another JP I won’t even be bothering to try. Hopefully nothing important is gated by it.

Unless the patch fixed it, there be mursaat tokens in there.

And that one was a really bad decision. It’s not like there aren’t any really troublesome tokens elsewhere, but at least we can relatively fast retry those to fail again.

You have to give Anet credit for the accurate naming though.

I gave up in the end.

Ardenwolfe.8590:

Just a flesh wound.3589:

Video of someone doing the new JP in less than 7 minutes.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1dh78W58PUE

Just . . . wow. . . .

I sometimes took 7 minutes just to get in the first entrance.

Ohoni.6057:

Taking nothing away from that person’s accomplishments, but she could have completed the JP in half the time if not for all those random “maybe a ledge, probably not” bunny hops. That’s just poor architecture design when you need to land on specific invisible pizels if you want to stick, otherwise you slide. You should be able to see before you leap which edges are platforms and which are not.

That bugged me the most. Thier are spots that are basiaclly just invisible ledges. Unless you looked at a guide its not obvious.

I wouldn’t call it evil, but it definitely involves too many “unreadable” geometry.
Between this and several faith leaps, it becomes some kind of sadistic “exploration” puzzle (in the sense that most difficulty comes from figuring out the next jump, not from executing it) which gets incredibly easier on a second run or just by following a video guide.

However, the biggest problem IMHO is on the reward structure. The puzzle gates too many or too important one time rewards (mastery points, several achievements that count towards the meta) and then offers laughable rewards for further runs.
It’s the same problem adventures have over again. Players who don’t like this kind of content get annoyed and/or frustrated, while those who like it get little replay value.

I enjoy jumping puzzles. They’re fun. I don’t think I could have done this one without a Dulfy guide telling me where to go though.

Well i certainly wouldnt want to do it on a class that cannot reset (e.g. spectal walk, portel etc.)

If you don’t have a Mesmer toon or a Mes friend to do this JP, I would recommend crafting a LOT of Watchwork Portal Devices. It’s expensive, but so are the tears when you bump into the wrong ledge on blind jumps.

I felt like the jumping puzzle needed another checkpoint closer to the end. Nothing worse than falling off at the end of the puzzle while climbing that last rock and having to redo the last large chunk.

Also I heard checkpoints get lost on relog/disconnect/map change. I sincerely hope that will get fixed – people with poor connection should not lose entirety of the progress due to it.